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#54370 - 05/12/11 12:48 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
That is a quite silly statement.

First, the “sitting and admiring himself” isn't differing from what every politician does. None of them just goes in public without everything being carefully prepared. They have their speeches written by others, are carefully groomed and follow a script at all times. What he does is identical.

Second, it sure was a costly bag of hot air wasn't it? One of the goals was to drain the West of their money and I don't think anyone has been more successful than him. If you consider the amount he invested to the amount it did and does cost the West, he was a genius in what he does. Not even mentioning his accomplishment of affecting our way of life.

How much did Bin Laden cost the USA?

Sure he might not have had the influence of a decade ago but after his killing, his star shines brighter than before and his son, if he is competent, will surely benefit of that.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (05/12/11 12:58 PM)

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#54372 - 05/12/11 01:23 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

Osamas moment of glory was 11th September 2001, and the events that happened from that moment were just ripples from his one big rock he threw in the pool. Yes his one action created a change in world history and cost $Xbillions but thats all he did, one action.

The rest of the time he hid away admiring himself, sending out the occasional press release or youtube video. Big deal. His organisation was unable to pull many more major stunts like that from then on, he was a man with his balls cut off. The CIA probably knew where he was for years, and only moved to boost Obama's presidential chances.

His son is a nobody until he proves himself. His organisation is in chaos. His son will be hunted down and captured or killed.
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Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54373 - 05/12/11 01:36 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course, all he did was the 9-11 thing and that was it. The rest of the time he spent watching TV. And now he died, al-Qaeda falls apart.

I truly admire your intellect and knowledge.

D.

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#54374 - 05/12/11 01:45 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Diavolo]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
Thanks Diavolo.

Those in power in the West have talked up the al-Qaeda threat and blown it out of all proportion to persuade the gullible mundanes to give up their rights and pay for the privilege. All those that supplied and benefited from Homeland Security and other security projects were laughing all the way to the bank.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

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#54633 - 05/17/11 10:28 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Diavolo]
Dave Pellani Offline
Banned. Moron.
pledge


Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 66
Loc: Hawaii USA
You forgot cherry picking teenage Yemeni brides, growing pot, and stockpiling porn flicks. Gheez, sounds like a regular guy to me.....Truth is stranger than fiction. I would'nt need anyone to confirm what a bunch of hipocritical clowns these guys are. Bin Laden is only a small piece of the puzzle, and the Pakistanis were caught with their pants down.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, throw in his secret practice of "sorcery" (translated as black magick) as a victim of a theocratic power grab, and what you've got is the tip of the ice berg of a three ring circus.

I find it an enjoyable show to watch, with much more to come, just getting underway, and the only thing that really troubles me is the lives of great Americans who are making the sacrifices continue to be at risk.
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#54674 - 05/18/11 06:07 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Dave Pellani]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
I find it an enjoyable show to watch, with much more to come, just getting underway, and the only thing that really troubles me is the lives of great Americans who are making the sacrifices continue to be at risk.


An interesting word choice; sacrifice. It shows that there is fundamentally no difference between the opponents even when the one calls the other an oppressor or terrorist. Achmed blew himself up, sacrificing himself for the cause and becomes a martyr, while Joe died in combat, sacrificing himself for the cause and becomes a hero. The only difference seems to be size, technology and methods.

Some things never change.

D.

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#54815 - 05/21/11 12:04 AM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Diavolo]
Dave Pellani Offline
Banned. Moron.
pledge


Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 66
Loc: Hawaii USA
That's definately one way of looking at it. I would pose the question of who would ultimately be the aggressor, and who would pay the ultimate price, albeit sacrifice, if we all just sat back and did nothing?

I think the obvioous answer would be Achmed, in his deranged quest for religious or spiritual advancement, mixed with some socio political economic agenda. Unfortunately, I don't see the typical Westerner as the type of aggressor Achmed represents, and I don't see how the two situations can be compared in this context, at least, I don't agree with it.

Again, unfortunately, I see us Westerners on the perpetual defensive. If that were not the case, it would lend more credibility to such a comparison.

I know it is somewhat hypothetical, but I think if you were to put it to the ultimate test, especially based on recent history, then I'll prevail on this one.

Who is right and wrong as far as what needs to be preserved, and what is at stake, I suppose is an open question to some, but not to me.

Time will tell......


Edited by Dave Pellani (05/21/11 12:08 AM)
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#55273 - 05/31/11 04:11 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Dave Pellani]
Pizgatti Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 33
Considering the Osama worked for us, and the CIA. Considering that we trained him to do what he does as well as a few other top individuals in that origination of "terrorists". I say it's mostly our fault. We bred the monster, responsibility to the responsible: The U.S. Government. I don't understand why the rest of the "intelligent" Satanists don't see or understand this conspiracy. It's all part of the government's own psychodrama against the American people. Whenever something is going on, they distract and misdirect in another way. Osama has been dead for years, there were WAY to many reports of his death before the fact...but because Obama the Superhero of Change announces it, the whole of America Believes it? BS.

The dollar is collapsing, Obama was tired of suffering approval ratings, riots happening all over the world... "HEY! At least we finally got Osama! Oh yeah, btw we still won't bring all the troops home. We are still fighting "terror"." You can't fight terror. Terror is a force, a feeling, not a seven headed hydra ready to strike you. Everything since 9/11 was just orchestrated to take away your rights and freedoms, make money for the big war machine and higher "elites", and stir up shit reasserting ourselves as the "world police force". It's all BS. I don't buy any of it. Thanks to our collapsing dollar, I Can't buy it.

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#55277 - 05/31/11 05:09 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Pizgatti]
MattVanSickle84 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 42
Loc: London, UK
The argument you are putting forward is a staple of the left. I'm not putting it down for that reason alone but you should be aware that this places you aside the likes of Michael Moore. That isn't intended as guilt by association, because you could both onto something. But here is why you're not:

If Osama bin Laden was trained by the CIA, which he was (for what I would argue was the just cause of fighting the Soviets) and then later on down the line attacks the United States, is the United States to blame?

I'm sure that repeating your arguments back to you is not enough to dissuade you, though it should, so I'll try a simple analogy since it doesn't require or deserve anything more sophisticated.

You are being threatened with deadly force by an individual, who is carrying a firearm. I personally, have previously trained you to defend yourself, I taught you how to shoot and I even payed for your lessons, you also are carrying a gun that I sold you (I moonlight as a firearms trader) and you prevail victoriously.

Does that then justify you to murder me if you want to?

I'll also allow for the fact that I trained you in my own interest (lets say for my defence, for political reasons) and that I often make huge, sometimes blundering and sometimes calculated errors. And I'll grant you that sometimes I'm just a bastard.

If you answer yes, what are your reasons?

If you answer no, you get a prize.


You seem to have reinterpreted "responsibility to the responsible" as "one must not take responsibility for one's own actions if one doesn't want to".

Maybe the popular leftist argument of the moment, (that simply: America is one of the most evil and ruthless terrorist states in recent world history) is true but I'm skeptical having looked at the whole picture and not just listened to American dissidents who masochistically, and solipsistically, blame America for...everything.

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Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.

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#55288 - 05/31/11 06:29 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: MattVanSickle84]
Pizgatti Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 33
I'll agree that the argument I put forth about us training him does not solely leave us to blame. I was trying however to skirt around the real issue in my mind, which is the whole conspiracy at large. I assume that as in all walks of life even in the real world, that most of you do not believe in that part of my political stance. I didn't want to open my beginnings on this forum with me spouting what you all might assume to be nonsense. I'm trying to stick to the strictest form of just the things I can back up right now. I don't want to explain all about 9/11 and why it was suspicious, so I'll start with a few things I feel like finding right now...

This video fairly well describes the Osama death hoax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92Is1mRLndI&feature=player_embedded

This is a news report describing that he was treated in a Pakistani military hospital on the night or day of 9/11 and treated nicely with their version of the CIA on guard. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OW4A-yd9BI&feature=player_embedded

I want to quote all the times that he has been reported dead as well:

 Quote:
""Then on December 26, 2001, Fox News reported on a Pakistan Observer story that the Afghan Taliban had officially pronounced Osama Bin Laden dead earlier that month. According to the report, he was buried less than 24 hours later in an unmarked grave in accordance with Wahabbist Sunni practices.

What followed was a string of pronouncements from officials affirming what was already obvious: supposedly living in caves and bunkers in the mountainous pass between Afghanistan and Pakistan, Osama would have been deprived of the dialysis equipment that he required to live.

-On January 18, 2002, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf announced quite bluntly: “I think now, frankly, he is dead.”

-On July 17, 2002, the then-head of counterterrorism at the FBI, Dale Watson, told a conference of law enforcement officials that “I personally think he [Bin Laden] is probably not with us anymore,” before carefully adding that “I have no evidence to support that.”In October 2002, Afghan President Hamid Karzai told CNN that “I would come to believe that [Bin Laden] probably is dead.”

-In November 2005, Senator Harry Reid revealed that he was told Osama may have died in the Pakistani earthquake of October that year.

-In September 2006, French intelligence leaked a report suggesting Osama had died in Pakistan.

-On November 2, 2007, former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto told Al-Jazeera’s David Frost that Omar Sheikh had killed Osama Bin Laden.

-In March 2009, former US foreign intelligence officer and professor of international relations at Boston University Angelo Codevilla stated: “All the evidence suggests Elvis Presley is more alive today than Osama Bin Laden.”

-In May 2009, Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari confirmed that his “counterparts in the American intelligence agencies” hadn’t heard anything from Bin Laden in seven years and confirmed “I don’t think he’s alive.”

Now in 2011, President Obama has added himself to the mix of people in positions of authority who have pronounced Osama Bin Laden dead. Some might charge that none of the previous reports had any credibility, but as it is now emerging that Osama’s body was buried at sea less than 12 hours after his death with no opportunity for any independent corroboration of his identity, the same question of credibility has to be leveled at this latest charge.""


 Quote:
In February, 2004, Iranian state radio claimed Osama bin Laden had been captured in Pakistan’s border region with Afghanistan “a long time ago.” Pentagon and Pakistani officials denied the report. “Osama bin Laden has been arrested a long time ago, but Bush is intending to use it for propaganda maneuvering in the presidential election,” the radio report said.

Osama bin Laden died of kidney failure soon after the September 11, 2001, attacks. In 2002, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf said bin Laden had kidney disease, and that he had required a dialysis machine when he lived in Afghanistan. That same year, the FBI’s top counterterrorism official, Dale Watson, said, “I personally think he is probably not with us anymore.”

A Taliban leader told the Pakistan Observer on December 21, 2002, that Bin Laden was suffering from a serious lung complication and died in mid-December, in the vicinity of the Tora Bora mountains. The source claimed that bin Laden was laid to rest honorably in his last abode and his grave was made as per his Wahabi belief, according to Fox News.


Something else interesting is that Osama met with our CIA and was treated at one of OUR United States Hospitals in July right before the attacks. Was apparently still in good standing with us since he was even invited back to CIA HQ. Even the Washington Times reported on this, but have since taken the story off the web.
http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Re...ton%20Times.htm

We know the Bin Laden confession tape of 9/11 and much of the other footage is faked. Easily. Wearing gold where it is forbidden, nose and face don't match facial structure, too good health for his failing kidneys etc..

Al Qaeda was started, fueled, and began by us. We funded them for some time, although they didn't go by that name then. The national Security Adviser for president carter admits it in an interview:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7718
That article also shows how we funded them indirectly for awhile after that. Bin Laden was dropped from our list into hiding and as a "rebel terrorist" but we still kept close tabs on him.

Again reported:
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/2/28/investigative_reporter_seymour_hersh_us_indirectly

Even during Bush jr. we were funding them covertly to initiate "regime change".
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/may2007/280507usesalqaeda.htm

I just don't get it. Why would I believe that we "killed him" now, could have been any of those look alike clones. Could have been nothing since no one got to examine the body before it was sank into the sea. Nothing matches up, the government lies constantly in all directions. I won't be another sheep. If everyone else would like to believe that the 9/11 buildings were brought down "pancake style" by melted steel, that's their thing.

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#55292 - 05/31/11 06:54 PM Re: </OSAMA> [Re: Pizgatti]
MattVanSickle84 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 42
Loc: London, UK
Forgive me sir, I haven't read your post but I am fairly confident that I already know what your getting at. It's quite a long post and quite late where I am so I'll have to assume a lot.

You are skeptical as to whether bin Laden was killed recently or in fact much earlier and I would imagine you're skeptical about the whole official story of 9/11?

Am I close?

My father, I love him, but he is frankly a conspiracy nut, so I assure you I will be intimately familiar with where this is going.

I strongly encourage skepticism and using your critical faculties and I know the arguments well. Never trust the received wisdom, right? That's what Carlin said. No doubt you have looked at all the angles, tied up all the loose ends and done your research.

My questions to you are:

In doing this, how can you be sure that the people you have researched have done the same?
(I'm thinking Alex Jones' acolytes)

Have they been as thorough and what reasons have you to trust them?

Are there just as many holes in their version of events?

If you look objectively, without prejudice, you will see that there are many.
_________________________

The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.

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