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#54683 - 05/18/11 10:55 PM Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
I have been pondering this now for about a week, and would appreciate input of the sinister type.

Most of my thought processes either offend, or give people cause for concern over my motives or reasoning. Here I enjoy the fact that I am not as alone as I am walking among the herd.

Since I am rather new to the whole Satanism fold, most of my understanding has come from books, forums (like this one) and tongue in cheek indirect questioning of the uninitiated. Meaning I am fond of posing hypothetical, and philosophical questions and scenarios to different people to see what they think of events and actions in the world. The past couple of days I expanded that experience by asking different people of differing faiths to what they think forces of nature mean to their religious faith, and experience.

But first, let me qualify my questions with some reference points beforehand.

Human beings are fond of personification towards both the living and inanimate. This happens due to the need for people to feel more connected, and associate differing personality traits we as human beings have, and whether or not animals, or objects also possess those traits. We name our cars. We name our pets. Some of us even name our own parts, in some inane act of adding or embellishing what we want it to represent. Fair enough.

THE FOUR CROWN PRINCES OF HELL

SATAN - (Hebrew) adversary, opposite, accuser, Lord of fire, the inferno, the south

LUCIFER - (Roman) bringer of light, enlightenment, the air, the morning star, the east

BELIAL - (Hebrew) without a master, baseness of the earth, independence, the north

LEVIATHAN - (Hebrew) the serpent out of the deeps, the sea, the west

When someones home is consumed by floods, fire, hurricane, or earthquake.... the form for insurance claims might list such things as "acts of God". So ingrained in the language and legal jargon, it even appears on legal documents. God is responsible for all things, even destruction. But when pressed for opinion, I always received varying responses to questioning about those events.

It is any coincidence, that in these past two months alone, hundreds of deadly tornadoes have torn a path of destruction, even for hundreds of miles through the very "bible belt" of this country. I referred to twisters as "God's little vacuums". I laughed, they did not.

"Do you think God's little vacuums purposely destroyed his beloved children?"

"Is it another coincidence that that same region of the country is being flooded?"

Earthquakes. Tsunami's. Hundreds of thousands dead or missing. Wild fires ripping across different parts of the world. Is this Gods work? Are we supposed to be questioning his grand plan? Most of them refused to answer, or directed the questions elsewhere.

As a Satanist, I know it is nature. Nature is neither cruel, or just. It simply is, regardless of circumstance. Nature will always look for balance, and renewal.

Fire is a cleansing force. Overgrown, and dried out forests are incinerated leaving carbon, and nutrients to enrich the soil, so that when life returns it does so twice as lush, and twice as strong as before. Satan, natures fiery spirit cleanses as it consumes.

All the weather, and geographic activity we are experiencing is nature renewing herself. Whether we sped it up is unclear, but rest assured she will make all things anew.

I felt it necessary to pick the brains of the faithful, and see the expected responses. When its convenient to revere they exalt his greatness. When the world destroys, and kills.....
When Lucifer, Satan and Leviathan have their way with the world, it is for the benefit of the planet as a whole

"he only takes the best"

"it was Gods will"

"Jesus called them home"

Its all a load of crap. I for one will be sitting in a lawn chair, eating and laughing my balls off because people seem to be incapable of walking uphill when the waters rise. When they rebuild in the middle of "tornado alley".

"God is testing us"

No, you are a moron. A masochist from birth and you revel in your ability to take punishment, accepting it graciously and with little complaint. The black community blamed Bush for the deaths, and conditions after Katrina. If you are not capable of taking care of yourself, or making rational survival choices you deserve to die. Not to mention they lived like circus animals in the super-dome, defecating everywhere and leaving trash on the ground and floor begging for help but doing nothing to improve their conditions.

Many of those same people who cried and wept and begged for help, are still living in FEMA trailers to this day. Yet they didnt blame their God once.

So, Natures fury, or Gods judgement. I vote nature raze everything and start new..... those in my camp head for higher ground and stock up on vittles. Oh bring a chair to watch the chaos.
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#54685 - 05/18/11 11:44 PM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
There are always consequences for your actions. If you choose to live in an area where there are frequent tornadoes, you increase your chances of being "victim" to a tornado. If you do things to change the atmosphere, expect to change the weather in some way. That said, there are dangers to living just about anywhere: floods, quakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, fire, extreme heat, extreme cold. You just have to decide what you can deal with. I live in tornado alley, but I live in a part that is infrequently hit by them compared to many others just a stone throw away. I know what to do if a tornado does come.

The religious can't except that things just are, they can't accept that it might actually be possible to understand "God's great design." They assume there are not answers, or that they know the answer and it involves appeasing some invisible superman in the sky, so they don't bother ever looking.

Christians are always saying the righteous will ascend into Heaven. Suggest that it may be literal.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#54687 - 05/19/11 12:12 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Ive spent time in Tornado alley as well, been through quite a few hurricanes, and floods. But taking precautions are a must.

What troubles me, is those who dont prepare, cry and seem incapable of doing anything for themselves.

Change is inevitable. Satanists strive for change.

I see change occurring each year, as much as it scares me Im excited to see extremes. But also confident I am prepared to deal with them.
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#54688 - 05/19/11 12:18 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Lucifer Rising]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
My grandmother thinks that all of the recent natural disasters are harbingers of some impending apocalypse. Of course, she gets pissed off if I point out her stupidity, even though she made herself look dumb by opening her mouth. I can't help myself, though ;\)

 Quote:
They assume there are not answers, or that they know the answer and it involves appeasing some invisible superman in the sky, so they don't bother ever looking.


Faith is the ultimate excuse to decline to think. Nothing is random, it is all part of some plan we lowly humans aren't meant to know. Why bother to think in search of answers, when some invisible friend does one's thinking for him?
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#54690 - 05/19/11 12:28 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
What troubles me, is those who don't prepare, cry and seem incapable of doing anything for themselves.


Typical behavior. Much like the abdication of reason, those of faith choose not to act because "God will provide, God will protect blah blah etc", as though there is some magic faith bubble enshrouding their home which no flood, tornado, or fire can penetrate. Reminds me of the South Park "duck and cover" episode.

Duck and Cover
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#54692 - 05/19/11 03:54 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3118
 Quote:
When someones home is consumed by floods, fire, hurricane, or earthquake.... the form for insurance claims might list such things as "acts of God".

Does it?

 Quote:
As a Satanist, I know it is nature. Nature is neither cruel, or just. It simply is, regardless of circumstance. Nature will always look for balance, and renewal.

Nature just is, there is no thriving towards balance and/or renewal. It only is and every seperated factor added up which is called nature is only reacting according to the states of the other factors.

 Quote:
But first, let me qualify my questions with some reference points beforehand.

And your questions were? I seem to have missed it in the story of xian bashing and blaspheming...

@draculesti:
 Quote:
My grandmother thinks that all of the recent natural disasters are harbingers of some impending apocalypse. Of course, she gets pissed off if I point out her stupidity, even though she made herself look dumb by opening her mouth. I can't help myself, though

I don't think your grandmother is that stupid to think recent natural disasters are the harbringers of an impending apocalypse. At least, if we take for granted she is not speaking about the apocrypha in the bible. At this very moment we are getting in a quite unbalanced state of affairs of envirronment for our own health and well-being. I'm might not be the kind of guy who believes in doom-scenarios but am quite assured that within the next couple of decades natural disasters will happen more often with an increasing destructive force towards civilisation.

At least we'll get used to it and will hopefully adapt.. On the other hand, decimating a great number of humans doesn't sound that bad. Most of the creative and inventing thinking came from living in extreme situations.


Edited by Dimitri (05/19/11 04:01 AM)
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#54702 - 05/19/11 10:34 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Dimitri]
Lucifer Rising Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/10
Posts: 147
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
...the apocrypha in the (B)ible.

This is trivial, but the apocrypha are early Christian scriptures that are not included in the Bible, so there is no apocrypha in the Bible.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
On the other hand, decimating a great number of humans doesn't sound that bad. Most of the creative and inventing thinking came from living in extreme situations.

It is in times of great turmoil that force evolution forward in a short amount of time. Those that can survive are the new legacy. When climate changed dramatically, quickly, and often, our ancestors adapted from slightly intelligent apes to highly adaptable, more intelligent apes, creating the human race. After the Black Plague, the quality of life increased for the survivors and brought about a cultural renaissance in Europe. When we had the World Wars, technology rapidly advanced. I am curious what the next great disaster will bring.
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Even if you're the ultimate evil lord of the underworld, you should always be yourself. Mickey Mouse

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#54703 - 05/19/11 11:00 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Dimitri]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
 Quote:
When someones home is consumed by floods, fire, hurricane, or earthquake.... the form for insurance claims might list such things as "acts of God".

Does it?

 Quote:
As a Satanist, I know it is nature. Nature is neither cruel, or just. It simply is, regardless of circumstance. Nature will always look for balance, and renewal.

Nature just is, there is no thriving towards balance and/or renewal. It only is and every separated factor added up which is called nature is only reacting according to the states of the other factors.

 Quote:
But first, let me qualify my questions with some reference points beforehand.

And your questions were? I seem to have missed it in the story of xian bashing and blaspheming...


Yes, it does. Acts of God are, or aren't covered by some insurance companies. As for the questions....I put them separate from the main texts and in quotation marks so they were easier to see Dimitri. If you are interested they are still there for you to see and comment on.

I couldnt finish all my thoughts on this, as it was such a broad topic and I had just gotten home from a long work day. If I didnt attempt to write any of it down I would have lost some of the points I had wanted to make.

The most blasphemous act of man is the splitting of the atom. Watch "Trinity and beyond" if you want a better glimpse of what I mean. From the first nuclear detonation, all the way through to our most powerful H-bombs. This as as close to natural disaster humanity has ever come, and thankfully has never employed on a grander scale then history reveals.

Balance can be as trivial as flood waters rising over the banks of rivers, or the levees man has constructed to keep them in line. Every year by me, the Army Corp of Engineers spends countless hours dredging the sands on the barrier islands so winter storms coming later will not flood and scourge the main part of the island. Much of the civilization we construct around us requires maintenance. Why? Degradation by wind, water, and sun. Nature has proven to be the ultimate test to a materials ability to survive.

Every spring we see evidence of renewal. Each Summer we see evidence of fire and the burning of homes and forests. That which was burned regrows, that home which was razed to ashes is rebuilt.

"Homes aren't natural" you might say.

Human beings are a force of nature. Probably the worst. We take without giving back. We radically change landscapes to play games. And we march on wars which kill and destroy everything. The rebuilding of a home, like the dens of ants or bees is still a natural act. And when it is all said and done, and mankind dies forever......it will seem as if we were never here, when the rest of life takes over our empty spaces.
_________________________
Become a force of nature.

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#54709 - 05/19/11 03:04 PM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3118
 Quote:
I couldnt finish all my thoughts on this, as it was such a broad topic and I had just gotten home from a long work day. If I didnt attempt to write any of it down I would have lost some of the points I had wanted to make.

It sometimes helps to write it in a seperate file with all little details and thoughts you want to share. Also helps to ponder a while over what has been written, most of the time followed by the sudden urge to explain every word while ending it with throwing it in the waste bin wondering why you bothered in the first place.

 Quote:
The most blasphemous act of man is the splitting of the atom. Watch "Trinity and beyond" if you want a better glimpse of what I mean. From the first nuclear detonation, all the way through to our most powerful H-bombs. This as as close to natural disaster humanity has ever come, and thankfully has never employed on a grander scale then history reveals.

I'm quite a fan of the hitchhickers guide to the galaxy. The most true sounding words I ever found in these booklets concerning this issue (and which would be by coincidence my answer and exactly the same view):
 Originally Posted By: HHGTTG
his planet has — or rather had — a problem, which was this: most of the people living on it were unhappy for pretty much all of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movement of small green pieces of paper, which was odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy.
Many were increasingly of the opinion that they'd all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.
.

 Quote:
Balance can be as trivial as flood waters rising over the banks of rivers, or the levees man has constructed to keep them in line. Every year by me, the Army Corp of Engineers spends countless hours dredging the sands on the barrier islands so winter storms coming later will not flood and scourge the main part of the island. Much of the civilization we construct around us requires maintenance. Why? Degradation by wind, water, and sun. Nature has proven to be the ultimate test to a materials ability to survive.

I think I once said that the subject of balance and equilibrium is quite relative since it purely is decided from the observers point of view.
I'm also one of those guys who says to not fight against nature but go along with it. Guess that makes me a partial tree-hugger hippy..

 Quote:
"Homes aren't natural" you might say.

Naaah, they're quite natural. Almost any macroscopic organism composes its own shelter/home.

 Quote:
Human beings are a force of nature. Probably the worst.

Naaah, we're just some other thingy that's part of nature, not really a force.
 Quote:
We take without giving back. We radically change landscapes to play games.

Guess what the O2-producing bacteria did many millions of years before us.. Their envirronmentalists should have warned the other unicellular organisms about their climate-changing behaviour. (Sounds familiar?).

 Quote:
And we march on wars which kill and destroy everything. The rebuilding of a home, like the dens of ants or bees is still a natural act.

So that house you live in was not created by human hands?
Medicinal sciences are only there to give us a healthy and painless way to die?
 Quote:
And when it is all said and done, and mankind dies forever......it will seem as if we were never here, when the rest of life takes over our empty spaces.

Cool, too bad I'll probably don't stick around that long to see who is going to take my place and abuse the molecules which make up my body.
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#54711 - 05/19/11 03:11 PM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Dimitri]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
Name another part of nature which radically changes its environment, much to the detriment of the rest. (beavers aside, unless its a shaved beaver nvm,)

Worm food, unless you choose cremation.

And there is nothing wrong with hugging trees, as long as you realize they wont hug back....

they just ejaculate all over your car.
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#54727 - 05/20/11 04:35 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3118
 Quote:
Name another part of nature which radically changes its environment, much to the detriment of the rest. (beavers aside, unless its a shaved beaver nvm,)

Already mentioned the very first unicellulars who changed the planets atmosphere to the point as we know it.
Another part/organism which you can see in full action are all the different vines. In the tropical forests of Brazil some vines have radically changed the envirronment by enstrangling trees.
Another force/part of nature which radically changes the environment is to be found deep down the crust of the earth. This is force makes continental drift possible (and boy what an impact it made during the history of the earth).
Should I continue by also naming ants, Nitrobacter,... or should it end here?

That question is quite interesting enough to ponder about for people who are not really into ecology. I'll give you the hint that ANY organism on this planet (and probably elsewhere in the Universe if we ever happen to find it) will try to change its environment so that it enables it to develop at a maximum rate.

 Quote:
Worm food, unless you choose cremation.

Worms also die.. they sometimes get eaten by a mole which on its turn can also be eaten by humans (I have yet to tast one).
Besides, first the ants arrive when it comes to decomposing matter, afterwards the different kinds of flies.

 Quote:
And there is nothing wrong with hugging trees, as long as you realize they wont hug back....

they just ejaculate all over your car.

The relationship is mutual ;\)
You'll never get a better hard-on then a tree.
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#54796 - 05/20/11 05:20 PM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Dimitri]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:

Another part/organism which you can see in full action are all the different vines. In the tropical forests of Brazil some vines have radically changed the envirronment by enstrangling trees.


Those are called strangler figs. and even though they kill trees, they provide food for animals. As you are fond of mentioning..... the relationship is mutual, for one or the other.
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#54803 - 05/20/11 07:06 PM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
I have never in real life seen an animal larger than an insect kill another animal. Walking down a road today there was a lot of noise above me as starlings scattered in all directions making quite a racket. A huge crow flew from amongst them with a live starling in its beak, screaming in a way birds do, and upon the roof the Crow halted with its prey, and it ripped its living cargo to pieces. I just encountered nature at its most brutal.

What also threw me was that the Crow is my personal totem bird, and what I was thinking at the moment before I encountered the Crow, I was indulging in "what if" scenerios of ONA style cullings of Christians.
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#54812 - 05/20/11 10:41 PM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Ghostly1]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
 Originally Posted By: Ghostly1
It is any coincidence, that in these past two months alone, hundreds of deadly tornadoes have torn a path of destruction, even for hundreds of miles through the very "bible belt" of this country.

Having been in the bible belt on that day when numerous tornadoes ravaged many homes and witnissing that destruction first hand, one can only gain a greater appreciation of life.

Was it coincidence that while my town was surrounded by four tornadoes that all of my family and their belongings were unharmed? My family believes it to be a "divine protection." I am skeptical. I believe in chance.

As stated, its when these things happen that one can really appreciate life and the time we have to live.

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#54816 - 05/21/11 01:32 AM Re: Nature's Wrath; An Open ended Observation [Re: Lamar]
Dave Pellani Offline
Banned. Moron.
pledge


Registered: 02/27/11
Posts: 66
Loc: Hawaii USA
"Divine protection, Skepticism, Believing in chance, Wrath of Nature”
These are all separate issues that are assessed on a case by case basis. I will go out on a limb, by sticking with “Divine Intervention” as a circumstance through which, at least some of these changes, do indeed occur.

I would base part of this assumption on the fact that we as Satanists revile anything having to do with Judeo Christian, or Islamic thinking, which has gone out of it’s way to distort theological/philosophical perspectives in their own rendition of what they consider to be good, evil, or what will manifest as retribution. I agree that some of the comments made in this thread are overly complicated, detailed, and somewhat irrelevant. Perhaps even missing the boat in terms of the underlying theme of “Divine Intervention” as being part and parcel of Nature, it’s creation, and it’s administration.

I believe that life and the universe are far too complex in “circumstancial” make up, to be just an accident. That denotes a “creator” as is hinted in the Satanic Bible and Luciferian philosophy. Obviously, the LaVeyan doors are being left open to possibilities that may appeal to a broader audience, that at least appears to be all inclusive. I would use the example of the common shell fish, in it’s primordial simplicity and lack of complexity compared to many other higher forms of life. If Darwin, for example, decided that this was a fair comparison to the evolvement of human life and the human consciousness,, then whatever he was smoking, he can keep it to himself.

What I have observed from reading texts such as the Satanic Bible, is that there is a different perspective on who gets the upper hand in these situations. Who is the perpetrator, and who does the regretting, who bears the brunt of “Natures Wrath” Assuming it is all to be taken literally. And why not? I mean, why make such fervent attempt to write something so profound, only to tell people it was only a joke. There are certain passages in the Satanic Bible that do not resemble anything I have read anywhere else. That is, quite frankly, what had further motivated me to pursue Satanism as a spiritual path, and not just an empirical ideology.

I don’t have official statistics, but I think the most hardened Atheist or empiricist would have a hard time arguing the methodology behind numbers that tend to add up and/or follow a particular pattern. The point being the unfolding of natural disasters that tend to affect particular populations, geographic, and demographic areas, as well as populations that live and die by following certain creeds or philosophies. There are quite a lot of these incidents, and they do follow a particular pattern right up to this very day. I would even go as far as to say it primarily affects Hindus, Moslems, Christians, and Jews for the most part. This may sound a little homophobic, silly, or even extreme, but that’s the chance I take.

Myself, living atop such a perversely geographical volatile pile of volcanic rubble, and the ensuing legends of the region, which are quite profound, and I don't care to get into it here, because it is a very long story. If you want to read something rediculously short and incoherent, just read the tale of creation in the Bible. I have a first hand look at how the "Wrath of Nature" affects humans and aspects of natural destruction of which we have come in to close contact with, and how it folds into mythology that follows this pattern of creation, destruction, and who gets in the way, who perishes, who prevails, and why.

We are not born of dust. We are born of fire!

Superstition, maybe, but I really don’t think so. Keep a close eye out for it.


Edited by Dave Pellani (05/21/11 01:33 AM)
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