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#54720 - 05/20/11 12:49 AM Of Pain and Suffering
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
What are your views toward negativity/pain/suffering?

I am a musician - a drummer, songwriter, and lyricist. I choose to embrace pain and negativity in my material. After all, everyone experiences pain and can relate in some way. Some even vicariously. I think that negativity is a motivator. Stagnation accompanies complete joy and happiness, in my opinion. If one can only experience joy then how can one distinguish it from pain?

Realistically, I think that pain and suffering is a more relative view of reality. I first started forming these views when I was in high school, I was in a band and wanted to express myself. I noticed how virtually everyone was bombarded with pain and suffering. Identity issues, drug and alcohol abuse, broken homes, homelessness, failed realationships, suicides etc. were visable and rampant. So I exploited pain and the negative side of the human experience in that band.

Musically speaking, there are other personal factors that have influenced the material that I write about, such as depersonalization disorder. I am actually writing an album that focuses on depersonalization and anxiety disorders as narrated by a main character in the album. It focuses on the emotions felt and mental state of the character.

So, what is everyone elses views toward pain and negativity?

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#54726 - 05/20/11 02:25 AM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: Lamar]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Fuck it, it's my Friday and I have nothing better to do so I will indulge you in your inquiry:

Pain...hurts.

Other kinds of "pain" like, for example, the sensation of being tattooed is (for me at least) rather enjoyable. So it isn't really accurate to refer to it as pain.

But actual physical pain - things that hurt - I'm against them. The reason(s) should be obvious. I don't have much more to add to that.

Negativity - that's just an opinion based on other opinions along the same lines of "good" and "bad". A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that always being an "optimist" is somehow better than having a "negative", or, as I call it, realistic outlook.

Sure, there is nothing wrong with "thinking happy thoughts" or being optimistic but to blindly delude oneself that everything is fine and everything is going to be okay seems rather counter-productive. Especially when there is a real problem on your doorstep (figuratively or literally) and all the happy thoughts in the world wont do a damn thing about it.

As an aside: people who talk about "sending out positive energy into the Universe" or being able to "feel your energy" are profoundly annoying. And these people are the same ones who often put too big an emphasis on optimism vs. pessimism.

The things you described such as addictions, identity issues, failed relation ships etc. don't really bother me. Unless I am being effected by them whether directly or indirectly. Music has always been a good remedy when the "bad" things in life start to crop up.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#54728 - 05/20/11 05:10 AM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Lamar Offline
member


Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
 Quote:
Negativity - that's just an opinion based on other opinions along the same lines of "good" and "bad". A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that always being an "optimist" is somehow better than having a "negative", or, as I call it, realistic outlook.

I suppose one could say that "pain" or "negativity" is subjective. How I am defining it is physical or mental (mainly mental) anguish of said person. I am in agreement that negativity is a more realistic outlook, and that is my core message or element within my music. We live in a world of suffering. People are infested with pain.

You mentioned that music is a good remedy for bad times. I also agree. For myself, music has always been a direct expression of what I'm feeling. Recently, a very interesting and disturbing phenomenon occured relating to music and the expression of emotion. I was facing a very dark and depressing point and I related that pain to certain compositions. I didn't realize it at the time. Those dark disturbing emotions became crystalized into those musical peices. It was, as Dr. LaVey put it, a total evocation. It is very hard for me to listen to them now.

I choose to exploit negativity and bring my listeners to a place of total surrender. No hope. No salvation. Because there is certainly none when experiencing pain/depression.

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#54731 - 05/20/11 06:05 AM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: Lamar]
Selina Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 05/18/11
Posts: 12
Loc: UK
I guess I am more of a middle path person than a left or right. The reason for this is that when one looks deeper into any ideas or experiences one always reaches contradictions and a paradox, where one thing would be unable to exist without its opposite.

E.g - In order to understand appreciate life one must understand and appreciate death.
In order to understand and appreciate the qualities of love one must also understand the qualities of hate.
In order to be a part one must learn to be apart. etc etc etc.

These paradoxes and contradictions are found in everything and an appreciation of them enables a much greater understanding.
The same with painful, negative experiences.
There is nothing as painful as suffering, and most would probably opt for physical pain than emotional or mental anguish.
But just as the same with the paradoxes above, pain and suffering are an important contribution to a healthy mind when understood and dealt with properly. More often than not it is those painful times that provide the opportunity for self-awareness, learning and understanding. It is usually at these times we stop and question ourselves our lives and our existence. It is when people become submurged in these experiences and forget the opposite of pain and suffering and believe that is all there is and ever will be is when real harm to the self is done.
On the contrary, painful experiences can lead you to a greater knowledge and understanding than any book or philosophy can. It is in those experiences that a person can find the true meaning of joy and the path towards it.

Sometimes you have to try to be someone you are not and experience painful times that you would rather not have experienced and try on many different costumes and masks in order to fully learn and understand who you really are.
Which is why every single one of us has the right to make mistakes and get things wrong sometimes and try to be more forgiving of ourselves and others when we make mistakes.
It is what a person aspires to that is important, not the current mistakes made in attempting to follow those aspirations.
When I experience those dark nights of the soul periods of depression and melancholy and pain, I make a conscious effort to also remember times when I felt happiness and joy and also the lessons I have learned from previous painful experiences.
All consciousness is is a state of mind and sometimes it means switching gears and looking at things from different perspectives to gain a bigger picture and a better understanding.
Love S
P.S I have never had a tattoo, because I am scared it will hurt! lol

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#54808 - 05/20/11 10:15 PM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: Selina]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I believe that pain and suffering are useful in small doses to ensure that our appreciation of happiness does not wear thin. Life seems richer as a symphony of alternating joy and misery; and this outlook has even affected the way I feel about my own emotions.

Right now, for instance, I am at a very stressful and turbulent point in my life, but rather than succumb to this pressure, I instead welcome my fear and melancholia because I find it invigorating. I don't 'enjoy' it per se, but I can appreciate it for what it is, and it helps give me motivation to push on.

Kinda hard to explain....
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#54872 - 05/22/11 08:03 AM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: The Zebu]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Parable Of The Orange

One day a young acausal being smelling a grove of orange trees on a world in the causal realm contemplated on what an Orange tasted like. It entered a state of mindful concentration and alone it began to speculate on the possible taste, until it had become frustrated and dissatisfied with its mindful contemplations. Thus it journeyed to an Ancient acausal being who had live many lives in the causal plane to ask what an Orange tasted like.

Now the Ancient one was in deep reflection inside itself when the young acausal being approached it and asked: “I understand the Ancient one has been to the causal realm, and have lived many causal lives. Tell me Ancient one: What does an Orange taste like?”

The Ancient one replied: “Ah yes, Oranges. I was awfully fond of them. I’ve tasted many in my various causal forms. Sweet is its pulp, and bitter is the sheath around the pulp young one. An Orange thus tastes both bitter and sweet.” — taken from Dreccian Doctrines & Disciplines, ONA

Contrast and appreciation?— we are experiencing pain and suffering as negative due to our will being subjugated, as this is undesirable and most unpleasant we can see that this is because the pain and suffering is subjugating our will as compared to a masochist who feels great carving his mortal clay for stimulation, likewise the sadist feels intense stimulation from darkly empathising with the suffering of others. It is very easy to be deluded into thinking that pain and suffering always have negative implications, moving towards pain is simply more stimulating than moving away from pain insofar as the human condition experiencing pain constantly yet in varying gradients whilst the mind compartmentalises absolutes that are merely subjective and often moral.

Happiness is the stage for suffering to enter. The true blessing of Satan is self torture. Why?

In a simple way, the human mind thinks it understands itself insofar as what is suffering and what is happiness, but really stimulation and instinct drive our behaviour, the will achieving results being happiness under any guise, for instance, we can observe a person having an emotional breakdown after his family being murdered, if said person is not emotionally detached in denial, they will likely be shaken with grief, weeping uncontrollably, whilst never regarding the sensations as periodic stimulation entering his existence, the essential contrast to the non feeling state, making him feel live, nor does the human observe his suffering as "interesting".

We could observe that because the loss of loved ones was not the will of the one who is suffering for it, this is due to subjugation of the will? Likewise we could observe laughter if said person (dispassionately or passionately) hated his family, even though the events would be the same, there would be satisfaction and possible irony.

Sects of antinomian gnostic philosophy's adherents rejected the demiurgos and sabotaged the quantum matrix with the goal of liberation by any means necessary, discarding all orthodoxy, to transcend sexual, religious, societal laws— by either conscious or unconscious design is not important, what is important is that laws provoke their own violation by the laws existing in the first place. I assert that the drive to establish and then desecrate states of purity is not limited to that outside of ourselves and in a simple way, as we are not entirely separate, sadism is actually empathic masochism and vice versa. Why? The illusion of solidarity— quantum theory relating to consciousness. In describing everything as God and the individual at it's helm, why would this God discriminate or even prioritise certain experiences?


In all seriousness with irony being unavoidable, only the subjective preference and the direction of will decides what experience is desirable and what is not. Words of gratuitous obviousness?

Of entropy and the tendency towards chaos, the counter current is in man, unstoppable, only to be given direction— knowing that eventually all things become chaotic and when even this destroys itself, there will be nothing. To will the destruction of all things, including oneself. What does not kill, makes strong!

We suffer willingly and unwillingly and yet the body and mind experiences pain regardless, only the will being achieved differentiates whether we are subjectively satiated or stifled. So my assertion is that mental and emotional pain are not real and can be dismissed as illusions easily, whilst physical pain is much harder to dismiss as the illusion of solidarity imposed that we react with immediacy.

If your design is to achieve cold-blooded self mastery through cold-blooded means— then applying Chaos Magic theorem and in particular, the laughter/laughter principle, anti-cosmic Satanic philosophy is a good start. Why? When one can laugh at having ones head smashed in, when one can laugh at loved ones dying, when one is blithe to suffering and death— the external no longer controls the individual. Apathy? or primal hatred which has matured, and turned to granite in the soul. To mock existences rules indifferently in a calculated way that some may describe as Evil.

Please understand that this is merely personal conjecture relating to the anti-cosmic flavour of Satanism that I advocate.

Now I am going to eat this pack of beef jerky as an act of vegetarian antinomianism.
_________________________


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#54873 - 05/22/11 08:20 AM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: Lamar]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I like your ideas, here is something you may find a little funny. This train of thought easily refutable but nonetheless has made some of my "friends" quite interesting to watch.

Ask a contemporary to recollect his "happiest moment in life", said person(S), most likely, will enthusiastically recollect their "happiest moment", that moment that was, and is, forever ingrained as monumental. Then ask of your contemporary, that for one solitary moment, they contemplate upon having already experienced not only the happiest moment in life but that maybe they have noticed the signs that have shown life has been moving toward something else, or at best all other experiences to come about since have not ever outshined the "happiest moment", having already established that moment, it has been and gone, hence all to look forward to is to be enthusiastic about mediocrity to eventually experience the polar opposite of "happiest moment".
_________________________


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#54918 - 05/22/11 06:34 PM Re: Of Pain and Suffering [Re: Lamar]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Lamar
So, what is everyone elses views toward pain and negativity?


Human existence is characterized by suffering.

When I say existence is suffering, I do not mean that human Life is simply full of suffering without any pleasure at all. It is obvious that there is pleasure and suffering in human Life: anywhere in the world. In daily Life, we distinguish between pleasure and suffering, seeking for and clinging to pleasure while avoiding and detesting suffering. This is an inclination inherent in human Nature, and one which I stress. Pleasure and suffering are in Reality inseperable and intertwined--one is never found without the other. The more we try to cling to pleasure and avoid suffering, the more entangled we become in the duality of pleasure and suffering. It is this whole process which constitutes suffering.

Human existence is characterized by suffering.

When I say this, I am referring to this kind of suffering: clinging to pleasure and avoiding suffering. It is exactly this type of suffering that a person must realize in their existential dephts otherwise remain stupidly blind and ignorant. Since Life and Death are the fundamental sources of pleasure and suffering plus human existence is entangled in attatchment to Life as well as detestation of Death, human existence is bound to a viscious cycle--the cycle of Birth and Death.

Liberate yourself.

the-Evil-Buddha
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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