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#80373 - 09/08/13 10:43 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: Al_de_Baran]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2092
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Al_de_Baran

What Fnord calls "pretentious"--my evaluation of the responses I received--I call "factually accurate".


Good then go find your answers elsewhere. This is not an o9a site. I'm not at all surprised that I have to repeat that as your wit seems as slow as molasses in the dead of winter.

Shove your pretentiousness sideways up your factual and accurate.
_________________________
From the ashes arisen

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#80606 - 09/29/13 12:58 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: Fnord]
RealityChecker Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/23/13
Posts: 1
As always, it is instructive to observe the hypocrisy at work in Internet forums such as this one. Lacking the ability to do anything else, a couple of people resort to name-calling, ("pretentious", "butt-hurt", "troll"), and the person who responds to this abuse in the mildest way gets his account banned.

My comments here regarding the ONA, although critical, were always substantive and supported by evidence. The quality and intelligence of the comments that preceded my banning (I haven't read any that followed), on the other hand, speak for themselves--as do the actions of the moderators here.


*To anticipate the obvious reply, I never called the ONA "pretentious"--when I referred to the group's "pretensions", I was referring to their undocumented claims.

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#80610 - 09/29/13 02:25 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: RealityChecker]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Chalk it up to knowing your audience. I think most people here who have responded aren't ignorant to what ONA is and does, it tends to get tiresome when forum users beat a dead horse.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

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#80613 - 09/29/13 04:12 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: RealityChecker]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
As always, it is instructive to observe the hypocrisy at work in Internet forums such as this one. Lacking the ability to do anything else, a couple of people resort to name-calling, ("pretentious", "butt-hurt", "troll"), and the person who responds to this abuse in the mildest way gets his account banned.


That's not name calling, those are adjectives, words that modify a noun (not trying to school you in grammar, btw) drawing attention to the character or behavior of a person or thing (i.e. you).

Besides, what else does one call it but "butt-hurt" when you create a whole new account just to stir up the same stale shit?

Get over it and move on. If you can contribute to the forum intelligently, fine, but don't waste people's time with crap like this.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#81137 - 10/13/13 12:18 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
DargoF Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/13
Posts: 29
I come up late at this topic, but as far as I could see no one mentioned three authentic paperback editions by the ONA, which might be interesting to mabon2010, if he is still into this research:

First comes The Sinister Tradition which contains three core works of the Order of Nine Angles: the Grimoire of Baphomet, Codex Saerus, and Naos. Through these the initiate learns the basics of the Septenary system, the mythos of the Dark Gods, the basics of Sinister Sorcery, Sinister Chant, the Star Game, and the Seven-Fold Way leading to Adepthood and beyond.

Then there are Sinister Tales ,an anthology of the major fictional works of the Order of Nine Angles. It includes such works as the Deofel Quartet, Breaking the Silence Down, Eulalia, and other short tales, together with an Anton Long essay on deciphering these sinister tales.

Finally, there comes The Sinister Way that presents several of the texts related to pathworking and sinister esotericism from the Hostia volumes, and adds to it the entire Sinister Tarot of ONA’s Christos Beest.

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#81904 - 11/03/13 01:53 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: DargoF]
DargoF Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/13
Posts: 29
Chrétien Sauvage has released a fourth installment on ONA writings as of 31st October 2013, consisting of HOSTIA Vol. I-III. Pertinent information as well as excerpt of the Editor's Introduction captioned below:

HOSTIA: Secret Teachings of the ONA
by Anton Long (Author) ,Chrétien Sauvage (Editor)

Available through Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Hostia-Secret-Teac...83303443&sr=1-1

"The present work contains esoteric manuscripts circulated among members of the ONA. HOSTIA contains further details of the sinister tradition of that Order and compliment the information about it already available in the books ‘Naos’, ‘The Black Book of Satan’ and ‘The Deofel Quartet’ as well as that published in the journal ‘Fenrir’. The aim of publishing these MSS is to make the rituals and methods of this sinister tradition available to all those who might be interested. Such publication, as will be evident, enables individual potential to be fulfilled, aiding the emergence of a new Aeon. This edition contains the contents of HOSTIA vols. I-III."

EDITOR’S FOREWORD

This volume has been two years in the making. As the Hostia volumes are among the most essential of the Order of Nine Angles corpus, readers may ask why these were not included in the first or second of the “Sinister” volumes. Simply put, the original PDFs proved resistant to digital formatting and subsequent editing attempts, and entire sections had to be typed in letter by letter. Some pages, notably those containing alchemical symbols were finally inserted as images, as were the celebrated letters of Stephen Brown – albeit these in order to maintain the original sense of character.

This document contains all three Hostia volumes (I-III), in their entirety, with the exception that ‘Copula Cum Daemona’ is not included in Hostia III, as our own hardcopy omits the first several pages. The reader is encouraged to read the corrected version instead in Sinister Tales (p.573). Likewise, since ‘Concerning the Temple of Set’ is printed first in Hostia II, it is not repeated at the end of Hostia III for obvious reasons.

As with any transcription effort from hardcopy, there are at times sections of the original which are illegible. In this case, this edition of Hostia normally indicates this with standard editorial marks (e.g. “[illegible text]”, and one essay in Hostia I is listed as ‘Untitled’, as our original hardcopy likewise does not have a legible title. The reader may consult the original typed manuscripts for further reference, if clarity is needed in such cases.
As ever, this edition is published as a volunteer initiative, in the hopes that it will prove useful to initiates at all stations along the Way.

Chrétien Sauvage
Order of Nine Angles
Samhain 2013

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#81906 - 11/03/13 03:10 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: DargoF]
numen Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
DargoF links to some good stuff. I got those editions and they're good quality for what you pay. I haven't found any problems with the content yet (and I have some "old stuff" to compare it to), and the few spelling/typo type errors don't take away from the content itself. Option 2 is to download everything from the internet for free, which takes more time and has you reading from a screen or paying to print everything out. Option 3 (the really really authentic option) is to spend thousands of dollars acquiring original MSS and a microfilm.

Good luck!

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#81913 - 11/03/13 06:13 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: numen]
DargoF Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/13
Posts: 29
Yes, I have some copies myself as well. I agree that these are good value, nevermind an occasional typo. These are authorized editions by the ONA, and therefore authentic. And as for the other options, they are good, even though I love to have all of these teachings and essential works in traditional book, or paperback edition \:D
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#82376 - 11/16/13 11:16 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
Asura Dasi Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010

1. academic journals or studies that have been published.
2. books or essays by the original founder Myatt or Long.


In concern to academic sources, I would suggest the recently published Mysticism in the 21st Century from Sirius Academic Press by Dr. Connell Monette of Al Akhawayn University, Ifrane, Morocco.

Per the dust jacket of the referenced volume, Professor Monette is an Associate Professor of Religion and Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Al Akhawayn, holding a Ph.D. in Medieval Studies from the University of Toronto.

The chapter on Hermeticism deals exclusively with the Order of the Nine Angles presumably based on in part Professor Monette's private interviews with Anton Long - Professor Monette allegedly being the last to be granted such an interview prior to Long's announced retirement some few years back.

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#82421 - 11/17/13 10:39 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: Asura Dasi]
Caladrius Offline
member


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 334
Loc: SoCal
 Originally Posted By: Asura Dasi
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010

1. academic journals or studies that have been published.
2. books or essays by the original founder Myatt or Long.


In concern to academic sources, I would suggest the recently published Mysticism in the 21st Century from Sirius Academic Press by Dr. Connell Monette of Al Akhawayn University, Ifrane, Morocco.

Per the dust jacket of the referenced volume, Professor Monette is an Associate Professor of Religion and Assistant Vice President for Academic Affairs at Al Akhawayn, holding a Ph.D. in Medieval Studies from the University of Toronto.

The chapter on Hermeticism deals exclusively with the Order of the Nine Angles presumably based on in part Professor Monette's private interviews with Anton Long - Professor Monette allegedly being the last to be granted such an interview prior to Long's announced retirement some few years back.


Congratulations to Dr. Monette on manifesting the book. I understand a lot of time, work, [and grant money], went into this book.

Me and a few Associates appreciate the work put in and that he gave ONA a chapter in his book. This was personally good news for me. I send Dr. Monette thanks and kind regards on behalf of the Few Associates. .:.AoB.:.
_________________________
Chloe 352

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#82426 - 11/18/13 04:34 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: Caladrius]
numen Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
Wasn't there also a Professor Kaplan that did some research into ONA? I seem to recall something about him getting a microfilm out of the deal or something. I'm still thinking if this dude wants original manuscripts or whatever he's going to have to use inter-library loans and fork over the "big bucks" to boot. Which is silly since these days you can just go download almost everything.

I wonder how much one of those old microfilms would go for these days?


Edited by numen (11/18/13 04:40 AM)
Edit Reason: stupid computer is stupid

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#82435 - 11/18/13 01:49 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: numen]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Original sources can give a much fuller picture-- not just about the date/origin of the medium itself, but also marginalia and details that may have been edited out or corrupted in later digital versions.

For instance, the original copies of "Falcifer: Lord of Darkness", are signed by 'David Myatt' and not 'Anton Long'. (*dramatic chord!*)

Granted, it's really not that practical unless you are an academic or can visit the libraries directly. Besides, we all know how Mabon's little excursion into ONA-Land went.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#82440 - 11/18/13 02:33 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: The Zebu]
numen Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
Actually I don't know how it went for Mabon, I wasn't around back then, but if I had to predict from what I've seen of him, not well.

And I understand what you mean about marginalia and such, I just approach it from the standpoint of the usefulness of the material rather than from a gathering the most facts standpoint.

Knowing or not knowing that Myatt=Long (if in fact that is the case) doesn't affect your ability to walk the Sevenfold Way. Neither does anything else you're likely to uncover by perusing dusty old manuscripts in the reading room of the British Museum.

I'm not saying that undertaking a scholarly study for your own edification is a bad thing, just that getting original source material seems like a huge waste of time and money if what you want to do is walk the Way. Your manuscript collection isn't going to be a big help really.

Now, if you want the Truth (you can't handle the Truth!) of the ONA and you're willing to throw thousands of dollars at it, then sure go buy a bunch of original MSS, and you'll still be wondering in the end.

Your best bet might be tracking down Brenna Kinsley or some of the other less known folks from back in the day and see if they'll talk to you. At this point interviews with Anton Long and Christos Beest have been done to death.

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#82451 - 11/18/13 08:58 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
DargoF Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/13
Posts: 29
As far as I know, ONA was thoroughly presented in academic discourse through the works of Senholt and now dr. Monette. But I also came across an article that discusses this matter, which states: " ... in the 2006 Encyclopedic Sourcebook of Satanism edited by James R. Lewis and Jesper Petersen, the Church of Satan, described as ‘the founding form’ of modern Satanism is – together with the Temple of Set – given extensive coverage, with the O9A relegated to a few paragraphs – “the Order of the Nine Angles (ONA) is a secretive British Satanist group that acquired notoriety by openly advocating culling, namely human sacrifice…” – and dismissed as being merely the ‘intended most sinister form of Satanism today’. Others, such as the more extensive coverage by Goodrick-Clarke in his 2002 book Black Sun, described and concentrated on the O9A as an exponent of ‘nazi Satanism’, even though several 1980s O9A MSS and the 1992 Satanic Letters of Stephen Brown explained that the O9A regarded politics as simply an exoteric ‘causal form’ that might be used as part of an aeonic ‘sinister dialectic’..."

All of this, with commentary and recommendations for further reading (necessary for better understanding of the Order) is given here: http://omega9alpha.wordpress.com/2013/11...emic-discourse/

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