Page 1 of 7 12345>Last »
Topic Options
#54824 - 05/21/11 06:35 AM ONA original and authentic sources required
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
I am beginning a major study of ONA which I will then write up.

I require official sources of information which I can quote as a basis of authority on ONA:

1. academic journals or studies that have been published.
2. books or essays by the original founder Myatt or Long.

I have been in the past given many sources, but I only wish to zero into the official versions. These versions must be available as a permanent record for third parties to check up. I am looking at the core works not secondary material, that which was adapted by some individual nexion. They must be primary sources created by the individual who gave birth to the ONA Mythos and will be credited to that author : Myatt/Long.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54825 - 05/21/11 07:22 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Oh boy, I sure hope your study of the ONA will be as splendid as that of Satanism you did.

Breathe Mabon, let out the hot air from time to time.

D.

Top
#54826 - 05/21/11 07:53 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
I am beginning a major study of ONA which I will then write up.

Book or internet? If book, mainstream publisher?

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
academic journals or studies that have been published.


To date, those few that make mention of the ONA - with two exceptions - are unscholarly and biased.

Here's one example -

http://pointyhat.wordpress.com/scholars-of-mundaneness/

The two exceptions are the papers presented by Senholt and George Sieg at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology Conference 'Satanism in the Modern World' (November 2009CE).

But even they contain some factual errors.

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
books or essays by the original founder Myatt or Long.


A good pdf which includes a facsimile copy of Naos as circulated by the ONA in 1991CE - and all the texts required to understand the seven fold way - is available at

http://darkimperium.wordpress.com/2010/12/13/the-requisite-ona/

Nearly all the texts in that pdf are by Anton Long. Some of his other texts are on his blog at

http://antonlong.wordpress.com/

which contains only material written by him.

Almost all the material on the ONA main site at

http://www.nineangles.info/

is written by Long.

If you have academic credentials, then perhaps Professor Kaplan might help as he has a microfilm of some very early ONA material given to him by Long in the 90's.

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
They must be primary sources created by the individual who gave birth to the ONA Mythos and will be credited to that author : Myatt/Long.


If you have a query about authorship, then PM me and I'll find out if it's by AL or not.

So, perhaps you could outline your research credentials? If not here, then PM me.

Top
#54827 - 05/21/11 08:11 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: SinisterMoon]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ SinisterMoon
1. David Myatt is the original founder of ONA, has he written any books or essays?
a. if so what are they called.
b. where can I source them.

2. Anton Long. I am under the impression that Anton Long is David Myatt. Am I wrong?
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54828 - 05/21/11 08:54 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
ONA PARADIGM
WHY? (PURPOSE)
Why does the paradigm exist?

WHAT? (KNOWLEDGE)
The Why brings about the What.
What is the paradigm?
PRIMARY KNOWLEDGE (Original sources)
SECONDARY KNOWLEDGE (Secondary sources based on original sources)
All other sources rejected.

HOW? (UNDERSTANDING)
The What brings about the How.
How does the paradigm manifest?
Process from Cause (What) to Effect (Where).

WHERE? (ACTION)
The motion of the paradigm in action and effect.
The manifestation of the paradigm into reality.
Case studies.

APPROACH
Deductive: A,B,C... therefore X.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54829 - 05/21/11 08:59 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
David Myatt is the original founder of ONA

Myatt is the alleged founder of the ONA, or is alleged to have taken it over in or around 1971 CE.

There is no evidence to substantiate these allegations. Myatt has always denied being Anton Long and being involved with the ONA.

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
has he written any books or essays?

Thousands upon thousands of essays and pamphlets over some 40 years - from neo-nazism, to Jihadism, and also about his 'numinous way' and pre-Socratic philosophy.

Books? Translations of Sophocles and Aeschylus. Collections of poetry (as DW Myatt). Blah blah

Funnily enough, one of Myatt's collections of poems was mentioned in a recent novel (Power Down) by Ben Coes, who worked in the White House under two presidents.

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
where can I source them.

His website and blog at

http://www.davidmyatt.info/

http://davidmyatt.wordpress.com/

His 'numinous way' philosophy at -

http://www.davidmyatt.info/numen/index.html

Top
#54831 - 05/21/11 09:37 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: SinisterMoon]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Our dear friend Mabon will not as much study ONA as it will be another exercise in pomposity. I find it strange he doesn't know where to find the information while this obvious lack clearly didn't hinder him from sharing his views about ONA before. The question this raises is how much of what he says is to be taken serious at all since research and information don't seem to have much importance upon the formation of his opinions?

A quick search would provide all information he desires within mere seconds so one can wonder if the intention of this post doesn't serve another purpose.

I admit I'm curious about the conclusions of his "study" and if, will they be as hilarious as his conclusions about Satanism.

D.

Top
#54832 - 05/21/11 09:38 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: SinisterMoon]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Sinister Moon
Thank you for these sources.

Anton Long and David Myatt will be jointly attributed to the foundation of the ONA paradigm. I will "allege" that Long and Myatt may be the same person based on the book by the journalist Nick Ryan, "Into a World of Hate".
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54834 - 05/21/11 09:44 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Diavolo

I admit ONA have got me interested and I am now taking more than just a casual interest in the paradigm. I am a mere outsider looking into the ONA and I am sure to make errors, I am also sure you and those associated with the ONA will be quick to point out any errors.

What I would like to do is ask questions and source original and error free material to reduce the errors. There is a lot of junk and incorrect material on the internet so I thought it better to ask the experts where the quality authentic material would be found.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54836 - 05/21/11 10:10 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
OF DAVID MYATT

I refer to the following:

http://web.archive.org/web/20070305140910/http://www.dwmyatt.info/jstatement_new.html

JOURNALISTS
I have dealt with and do deal with journalists, and I identify with Mr Myatts issues about them.

ORIGINAL SOURCE
I always try to go to the original source.

ESSENCE
Myatt will know about the Plato Theory of Forms. I am interested in the Form rather than the Particular of the Form. In the same way I am interested in the Essence of ONA not the outer shell like nazism or other nexion expressions. I am however interested in how the ONA paradigm expresses as an "effect" or an "action" upon the external world.


Edited by mabon2010 (05/21/11 10:11 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54840 - 05/21/11 12:54 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
Myatt will know about the Plato Theory of Forms

Yep, and in his role as philosopher of 'the numinous way' he's very critical of it, citing Heraclitus, as in -

http://davidmyatt.wordpress.com/2011/04/08/the-abstraction-of-change-as-opposites-and-dialectic/

http://davidmyatt.wordpress.com/2010/12/01/on-the-nature-of-abstractions/

But this is OT re Satanism surely.

 Originally Posted By: mabon2010
I am interested in the Essence of ONA not the outer shell


The essence is - in ONA language - to Presence The Dark. By nexions - whether human beings, whether some causal form (like sinister tribes, gangs, politics, religion), whether by sorcery, blah blah

Like Anton Long said recently -

 Quote:
"We shapeshift because we are sinister shapeshifters. We are both practical and esoteric. We see forms as causal forms, as a means. If they are useful, and work, fine. If they do not work for us, we try something else.... Being practical and esoteric, we can and will use and will develope whatever means are suitable to achieve our aims and goals." http://antonlong.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/ethnicity-tribes-and-the-sinister-aeon/


To presence = to manifest in our causal continuum.

The Dark = the sinister numen of the acausal (aka *evil*) one aspect of which is Satan.

Why? To disrupt, cause chaos, to have fun, to experience exeatic joy, to develop (evolve) ourselves, to be like Satan, blah blah blah

Top
#54848 - 05/21/11 02:54 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: SinisterMoon]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ SinisterMoon

Yes, Mr Myatt has uncovered a major flaw in the Theory of Forms. Plato would say a Form is eternal and unchanging. Heraclitus would say that all things are in constant change, including the Forms. By induction I would say Heraclitus is correct, since:

1. What is seen in the world is a shadow of a Form, a particular.

2. If the particular is dependent upon the Form to change, as like we move, our shadow moves, it would not be able to change if the Form does not change.

3. The particulars are noted to be in motion and change in the world.

4. Therefore the Form must be changing.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54854 - 05/21/11 06:01 PM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
mabon2010:

 Quote:
Yes, Mr Myatt has uncovered a major flaw in the Theory of Forms. Plato would say a Form is eternal and unchanging. Heraclitus would say that all things are in constant change, including the Forms. By induction I would say Heraclitus is correct, since:

1. What is seen in the world is a shadow of a Form, a particular.

2. If the particular is dependent upon the Form to change, as like we move, our shadow moves, it would not be able to change if the Form does not change.

3. The particulars are noted to be in motion and change in the world.

4. Therefore the Form must be changing.

Completely ignoring your absurd misrepresentation of Plato and historically unverifiable (but probably false) claim that Heraclitus even accepted the existence of Forms, there is one very simple point which may throw a kink into your impenetrable reasoning: conclusions are only as strong as their premises. In this case, your fundamental premise is that "[w]hat is seen in the world is a shadow of a Form, a particular." For the rest of your argument (and it is deductive, not inductive) to be convincing, you must first show that the above claim is true.

Good luck. Plato developed the Theory of Forms approximately 2,500 years ago, and neither he nor anyone since has been able to show that they are likely to exist. Who knows, perhaps the individual with no understanding of Platonic philosophy will surprise us all. Personally, I doubt it.


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

Top
#54866 - 05/22/11 12:46 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: Zophos]
mabon2010 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/10
Posts: 259
Loc: The Commonwealth of Great Brit...
@ Zophos

I reject your argument.

1. I am dealing with ancient Greek philosophy not scientific method which had yet to be standardised at the time of Plato.

2. Heraclitus and Plato are in two different time periods. Plato reacted to Heraclitus with his Theory of Forms.

3. It is Myatt, and now I, that run Heraclitus and Plato's philosophies against each other two thousand years later.

4. If a Form exists or not, and what a Form is, is irrelevant in this instance of comparison of two ancient philosophies.
_________________________
Monadic Luciferianism is a philosophy of life centered on self.

Top
#54868 - 05/22/11 04:23 AM Re: ONA original and authentic sources required [Re: mabon2010]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
mabon2010:

 Quote:
1. I am dealing with ancient Greek philosophy not scientific method which had yet to be standardised at the time of Plato.

The scientific method is irrelevant to this discussion since, by definition, the Forms are neither spatial nor material. Any debate on the issue is therefore non-scientific.

In your own words, "By induction [sic] I would say Heraclitus is correct." To whatever extent your analysis is properly historical, the fact remains that you took a philosophical position of your own by affirming and attempting to defend the correctness of Heraclitus's view (the fact notwithstanding that your representation thereof is incorrect). As such, the onus falls on you, not Plato, to prove the more foundational claim that Forms are likely to exist at all, which you have yet to do.


 Quote:
2. Heraclitus and Plato are in two different time periods.

Scholarly estimates (in this case relatively good ones) place Heraclitus's death approximately 47 years before Plato was born. While not contemporaneous, the two of them hardly lived in "different time periods."


 Quote:
3. It is Myatt, and now I, that run Heraclitus and Plato's philosophies against each other two thousand years later.

And?


 Quote:
4. If a Form exists or not, and what a Form is, is irrelevant in this instance of comparison of two ancient philosophies.

The alleged irrelevance of defining a Form is not only ridiculous—it would be impossible to make a meaningful comparison of Plato and Heraclitus without having an advanced philosophical and textual knowledge of what Plato believed about the Forms—but also self-contradictory for you to assert, since in your own posts you have attempted to define both what a Form is according to Plato and what a Form must be according to Myatt's bogus understanding of Heraclitus. (In fact, that was the entire point of the first post I quoted!) Again, you did not merely compare two philosophies, but advocated one over the other, which obligates you either to give reasons for your conclusion or to discard your claim.

Before dispensing more verbal diarrhea on your blog and YouTube channel, it might first be wise for the Exalted Poobah X° of Monadic Luciferianism to gain a more accurate and thorough understanding of basic Western philosophy.


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

Top
Page 1 of 7 12345>Last »


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.11 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.