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#55197 - 05/29/11 11:09 PM Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc.
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
With all the talk of natural disasters, and war injuries doing a search came up blank.

What is everyone's consensus for charity and donations when weighed against your personal Satanic beliefs.

Of course most people wouldn't question giving to a children's charity, cancer research or disabled war vets needing wheelchairs. (At least Id hope not)

This Memorial day, the veterans groups have been at every single supermarket and mall with the "poppies" which are exchanged for donations. This is of course a Catholic Veteran charity. I say that because that is what the little tag on them read when a co worker bought one for a dollar.

I also noticed no one is still talking about the tsunami victims in Japan. All donations for them have ceased in American media as far as I can tell.



Some people through no fault of their own would end up on the street, or worse. If you paid taxes all your life only to end up requiring help....I think you deserve help. Habitual abusers of our welfare system(in the US) are an embarrassment and when seeking funding I think the social workers should check the DMV to see what car they drive, what kind of rims are on it, and how many cell phones they own. When a man wearing designer clothing, and carrying a $500 blackberry asks a supermarket clerk to check the available balance on their welfare benefit card, I fight the urge to murder them immediately.

If I do give any money away, to any charitable organization, when they offer to exchange something in return, a hat, a poppy flower, a tshirt I decline. In my thinking that would somehow lessen the act. Some good deeds when deserved shouldnt be on a bartering level.
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#55200 - 05/30/11 12:30 AM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Ghostly1]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Simply put. It's YOUR money. Use it as YOU see fit.
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#55213 - 05/30/11 02:09 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Jake999]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Simply put. It's YOUR money. Use it as YOU see fit.


Money is an ornery implement to humankind.

Today, many people feel rootless as a result of money matters. They have lost their home: their place of ultimate rest. The individualistic tendency to gravitate towards cash has Destroyed the original unity of this place. As a result, there is alienation from Nature, family, community, the world and oneself. All the result of the pursuit after the dollar sign. Money is the basic structure of alienation. The lack of money causes people to suffer from the abscence of vital necessities: food, clothing, toiletries (sp. ?), etc. which makes a person feel hunger, cold, unhygenic, etc. in a world dominated by money. Money strongly characterizes the mental climate of contemporary society.

Homelessness is the direct result of a lack of money. It is not a choice one makes. Homelessness is a human situation which is too serious and critical for "grab bag" remedies.

Ciao
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tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
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#55214 - 05/30/11 02:31 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: paolo sette]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Homelessness is the direct result of a lack of money. It is not a choice one makes


This may be true for some people but not everyone. I have met plenty of people who made a conscious decision to be homeless. One of them even always had cash on him. As it turns out he was from a very well to do family and had trust-fund that he lived off. But when night time came, the booze was gone and everyone was ready for bed, he would make camp with everyone else.

On topic: I'm not against charities, unless we're talking about the Salvation Army or Boy Scouts of America; they won't get a single penny from me. The only charitable foundations I have donated money to are the ASPCA and various medical research groups. The ASPCA receiving the largest donation out of all of them ($100 - FUCK you, Sarah McGlaughlin).

But that's just me. Other people can spend their money on whatever they want.
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#55215 - 05/30/11 02:48 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
This may be true for some people but not everyone. I have met plenty of people who made a conscious decision to be homeless. One of them even always had cash on him. As it turns out he was from a very well to do family and had trust-fund that he lived off. But when night time came, the booze was gone and everyone was ready for bed, he would make camp with everyone else.


He wasn't the financially poor with untantilizing duress such as hunger, cold, unhygenesis, homelessness. For 1) he always had money, and 2) a trust-fund he could turn to when he had enough of being without cash, the vast majority of the poor remain poor throughout their lives.

Hail, to mighty dollar sign.
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666
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#55216 - 05/30/11 02:52 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: paolo sette]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
That still doesn't alter the fact that every other person I came across who chose to be homeless were "the financially poor with untantilizing duress such as hunger, cold, unhygenesis, homelessness.". Nor does it change the fact that every single one of them, money or not, made the decision to be homeless, therefore refuting your original assertion.

Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (05/30/11 02:55 PM)
Edit Reason: Mechanics
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#55220 - 05/30/11 04:53 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Pizgatti Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 33
I think, if you are living comfortably and in a nice place...give if it makes you feel better. Give if it helps your goals and shapes your community in the correct manner and way that suits you. Personally, I don't have much money. I learned from watching my parent that you can't keep giving when you yourself have nothing. It seems noble, but in the end it violated the first sin of Stupidity. You don't give money when you have no money, it doesn't make sense. If I was in a mansion, or even a nice suburbanite house, driving a Lexus...Yes. I would give money to charity. Right now? I help in small ways
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#55223 - 05/30/11 05:48 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Pizgatti]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't do charity.

In the past I asked myself the question; “If I'd end up in some shit, how many would bring cash to me?” The answer is none. If shit hits the fan, all you might count upon are family and friends.

So I don't do charity and no disaster or emotional subject triggers an urge to send money. It's not that I particularly enjoy the misery of others but life sucks at times and I'm realist enough to know little money ends in those suckers pockets and if, I might be keeping a moron alive.

D.

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#55229 - 05/30/11 06:57 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Diavolo]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I don't do charity.


Contract whore.

I was reading a book, and a passage jumped out at me. It was written in 1857:

God has withdrawn his face. His children are deserted. All the kindly adjustments of generous Nature are gone. God has left man in the midst of a material world without Law. He is a wreck, a fragment, a lost particle, in the midst of an illimitable and endless warfare of money.

The fucker was right way back then: money is a God in its own right.

Hail, the mighty dollar for it is your God.
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tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
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#55230 - 05/30/11 07:09 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: paolo sette]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It might be good to not jump to conclusions. As I have mentioned in the past, I don't care about money. I hardly have any possessions because I simply have no need for them. So it is not because I don't do charity, money is therefor important. I just don't buy the mantra that the strong (wealthy) have to help the weak.

Maybe if the weak learn to help themselves they'd learn what it takes to become strong.

So you were saying?

D.

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#55233 - 05/30/11 08:15 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Pizgatti]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Or, be sure to give to charity if you're running for public office. Nothing grabs the hearts of the voting bloc like a bigwig who appears to "care for the little people". Everyone knows it's a lie, but it's one of those things that looks good on a resume.

Like volunteer work... *shudder*
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#55236 - 05/30/11 09:29 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
I should have embellished a bit.

We actually up until recently had a local man who always lived outside, had the shopping cart loaded with bags, fed the birds and wandered town. He always refused donations, even sometimes to the point of arguing. He must of had either a trust fund, or social security he used to buy necessities, and left everything to nature.

I flat out refuse to give beggars money. We had another one of those too. He would dress up as a dirty, smelly homeless man with the sign...and beg donations at the service road to the highway. At the end of the day, he would walk to the park&ride and get in his new F-250 pickup and drive to his house a few exits away. Eventually the media caught wind of it and he hasn't been seen since.

Cancer research, children's charities, and animal charities are the only ones id consider giving money to.
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#55237 - 05/30/11 09:42 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Nemesis]
Ghostly1 Offline
member


Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
I wanted a separate post for this one.

Public office, or when corporations donate large sums of money for anything, its merely a write-off for taxes. Selfless deeds my ass. Philanthropists are celebrated for it. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates.....sure donate half your fortunes. Neither one of them could spend half of it anyway if they tried. There has to be more to it, then simply trying to improve their image.

Volunteering, in itself is the most generous of acts. You are giving away your valuable time on this world to someone else. If you were rich you could pay a panel of people do nothing but good deeds. All in your name of course. Someone call the media.... they are building churches in third world countries again....



Even supposedly generous acts have an ulterior motive. Like getting free tickets, and hotel stay just to sit through a small sales pitch....... *dun dun dun*

TIMESHARE!!!!!!
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#55263 - 05/31/11 12:54 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Ghostly1]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
I do volunteer work but I'm not so keen on coughing up my greenbacks.

The reason *why* I do volunteer work varies from cause to cause. I volunteer at the humane society because the more free workers they have, the less likely they are to put down more animals. Plus, when I go in, I bathe them and play with them (and give the new ones toys). This keeps them pretty to look at and happy, thus increasing their chances of being adopted. It's also fun to me. I like romping puppies and frolicking kittens just as much as the next girl.

I volunteer at the library because I love books, and I like to encourage people to use them. The more children I can save from a life of stupidity and ignorance, the better I feel about my own children's future. I like to steer people towards the tomes that make them think.

I just signed up a few days ago to volunteer with the Red Cross. I live in Tornado Alley and part of my motive for signing up is to gain the training. I've also been the person on the other side of the table, though. Bad shit happens without discrimination and I don't feel right about the idea that I'm taking what is offered without pitching in, in some way. I was raised to earn what I get.

I'm much less likely to fork over money than to give a few hours of my time. As far as I'm concerned, if someone is begging instead of earning, they don't deserve shit. NO ONE is too anything to work. I know a blind lady who crochets and knits and sells her items to make a living. If a blind woman can support herself, anyone can. The fact that she is trying to earn an honest buck instead of mooching off the system and everyone else has guaranteed that all my potholders come from her.

It's a personal choice, just like having kids or wearing deodorant. I think that some people here will refuse to give or donate (or admit if they do) because they don't want to seem soft, but I don't feel like my hardness is at stake by doing what I do. My purely selfish reason is because it gives me the warm fuzzies and it makes me look good.

It's also just sort of a way of life around here. I grew up out in the country with my Grandparents and they and their 3 neighbors pulled together when they needed to. I live out in the country now (and have exactly the same number of neighbors) and we pull together here. By doing so we have improved our road (and our ability to get off our properties during storms), increased our food supply, and will soon have a storm shelter that you don't have to drive ten miles to get to. By being dependable and reliable when my neighbors are in need, I never have to worry about being the little red hen when it comes time for my own hard work, as was evidenced in our most recent tornadoes. Our property got hit the hardest in the neighborhood and we had 8 people out here helping us clean up and fix the damage. For Free.

I feel secure enough in my left-handedness that I don't feel the need to "prove" I'm a hardass...so I can be nice when I want to.

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#55265 - 05/31/11 02:04 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's not that I'm afraid of appearing soft; I occasionally do smile in public providing evidence I'm human after all.

I don't mind helping someone out, especially not those I know and like and even when unknown I give them the benefit of the doubt. Years ago an old acquaintance called me and asked if I couldn't help him get a job. I called my company, pushed his luck a bit and provided what he needed. He turned out well, got over his shit and he ended as my partner in other endeavors. Another time my boss called me at a job and told me she got someone stuck in shit; no job, evicted and asked if I minded using him in my team. I decided to give him his shot and he turned into a pain in the ass from day one. I had him fired on Christmas, something which amused me immensely, if not only by imagining him thinking about a turkey in some cold wet alley.

So yes, I occasionally help someone out if they ask me but it is limited to my environment. But the cry for cash for a flood or nuke victim somewhere just doesn't get me going.

D.

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#55357 - 06/01/11 07:15 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Diavolo]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Maybe if the weak learn to help themselves they'd learn what it takes to become strong.

So you were saying?


In the eighteenth century in the West, serious conflicts arose amongst science as epitomized by the controversy of Darwin. Remeber: Theology acted as an important catalyst in the development of present science. The idea of God as ruler of the universe made people think about the idea that God had arranged things in an orderly way and their were Laws which a person could discover, if one searched hard enough. However, the assertion that theology preceded modern science does not demonstrate that God exists in Reality.

The present state of affairs is the radical development of this approach to the point of a person living without God and left to the Self: Satanism.

the-Afreet-Ravana
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tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
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#55358 - 06/01/11 07:36 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: paolo sette]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Seriously man, I have no clue what you are arguing here. You come across as some madman who randomly shares something unrelated and then walks off again.

D.

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#55363 - 06/01/11 08:56 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: paolo sette]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
paolo sette:

 Quote:
In the eighteenth century in the West, serious conflicts arose amongst science as epitomized by the controversy of Darwin.

Both Darwin and the evolution controversy were born in the nineteenth century.


 Quote:
Remeber: Theology acted as an important catalyst in the development of present science. The idea of God as ruler of the universe made people think about the idea that God had arranged things in an orderly way and their were Laws which a person could discover, if one searched hard enough.

Fact.

The Foundations of Modern Science in the Middle Ages: Their Religious, Institutional and Intellectual Contexts

God and Reason in the Middle Ages

God and Nature: Historical Essays on the Encounter between Christianity and Science

Galileo Goes to Jail and Other Myths about Science and Religion

The Scientific Revolution: A Very Short Introduction

Now then, how does that have the slightest relevance to anything said by Diavolo?


 Quote:
However, the assertion that theology preceded modern science does not demonstrate that God exists in Reality.

I'm tired of this crap. You have thoroughly convinced me that you have nothing of consequence to offer, and your insistence on rendering the words "Satanism" and "Satanist" in red just makes you look even more asinine.

I mean, has anyone actually read the nonsense in this nitwit's posts?

"It is only when the pure heart of Reality reveals itself as Truth, Evilness and Beauty are we awakened. To the cold intellect these forms appear as 'robes of Darkness.' The intellect can never explain Reality; Reality will explain itself. It is Self-illuminating. Truth always challenges us to discover it (Reality), Evilness always challenges us to achieve it (Reality), and Beauty always challenges us to create it (Reality). The intellect unaided by intuition comes forward with high-sounding pretensions and accepts the challenge only to discover it is utterly helpless later on."

"Satanism takes on the reification phenomena of these religions. If one thinks that things fail to exist or exist absolutely, Satanism sees that one will be unable to attain peace of Mind. The reification process subjects a person to egoism: the overvaluing of oneself, one's achievements and of material things. Therefore, one will not appreciate the possibility of change of particular Forms of oneself and of one's possessions."

"In Satanism, all particular things are respectively just as they are with equality and disequality. This very realization is the source of Wisdom in Satanism in which both ignorance and Self-centeredness are overcome. Just because Satanism is seeing just as it is, it is full of things functioning freely which neither lose their particularity nor impede one another."

"Belief absolutely belongs to the one who has it: it is neither communicable nor transferable nor subject to partition. It is itself, its own authority, its own witness, and does not require anybody's confirmation. It is sufficient unto itself. No amount of skeptical argument can refute it because skepticism has to assume it: it takes for granted the existence of the skeptic."

"Stages of Mind cannot include or embrace a previous stage or latter. But, the Final Stage of Mind includes everything from the first to when it's finished. This means you cannot truly understand on the basis of a stage what happened in a previous or latter stage. There is no continuity, no ascending bridge to a higher stage from a lower one. There is a complete discontinuty or disjunction between each stage. A person must 'leap' from one stage to the next. Overcoming discontinuty indicates Absolute Negation. (Absolute Negation is simply an affirmation. The words of Absolute Negation and affirmation are dynamically identical.) Negation as through 'discontinuty' between stages of Mind is overcome through an 'abnegation', 'Self-denial' or 'renunciation' of a stage in the ultimate existential sense."

I could go on and on.

Since joining the 600 Club, I've tried very hard simply to ignore your posts, having failed to read even one thus far that wasn't bloated with every kind of insipid pseudo-intellectualism and obscurantist pablum conceivable, but you are an idiot, pure and simple.


Z.
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#55366 - 06/01/11 09:48 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Zophos]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: Zophos
Since joining the 600 Club, I've tried very hard simply to ignore your posts, having failed to read even one thus far that wasn't bloated with every kind of insipid pseudo-intellectualism and obscurantist pablum conceivable, but you are an idiot, pure and simple.


I need not enter into any further details about the fundamental notions I have espoused. I have already far overstepped the limits of time at my disposal through my posts to threads. But, nevertheless, I continue to post. I have tried to present to you very briefly the outstanding features which constitues my philosophy. My principle aim is to bridge a unity with the Satanic Mind through other Satanists based on mutual understanding of this forum.

Each has something to contribute to the other in the name of "culture", and each can learn something from another. I cannot think of a better way to account for the acute differences than the development of philosophy between the best thoughts amongst Satanists. So much of the need today depends on the realization of genuine "culture" which depends on fostering a philosophy.

It is this kind of understanding which will impart Life to "culture", and will give the Self a stronghold against the storms of today: It is the Self within you which can be enriched by a synthesis of "culture" through the philosophy of Satanism.

But, you cannot help everyone such as yourself.

the-Dark


Edited by paolo sette (06/01/11 10:09 PM)
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#55367 - 06/01/11 09:52 PM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Zophos]
MattVanSickle84 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 42
Loc: London, UK
Zophos, I am in total and absolute agreement, and support your dismissal of paolo sette's weak and insipid posts.

I too have struggled to find anything aside from obscurantism in his writings. I imagine he has this aversion to plain and simple language as this would reveal massive logical fallacies and gaping holes in his reasoning. If you can credit it as reasoning.

His "arguments" exude two traits which I unreservedly loathe: new age cliché and postmodernist smoke and mirrors.

Utterly vacuous and meaningless contributions, all of them. Actually, I could only get through a few, and had to give in, there's just nothing there. It's as if by constructing meaningful sentences his world would fall apart.

Good call sir. Someone had to say it.

M V-S
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Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.

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#55374 - 06/02/11 01:00 AM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: MattVanSickle84]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Originally Posted By: MattVanSickle84
Good call sir. Someone had to say it.


Paolo's nonsense hasn't gone unnoticed, but as he hasn't violated any forum rules per se (only the intellectual sensibilities of others), he remains. Simply put, ignore him like everyone else.

Now, on topic:

I don't do charity anymore, especially when it comes to giving homeless people or other beggars money. They didn't earn any of my money, and therefore have no right to it. Caveat: I like CS's idea of working in animal shelters and in libraries. As those are things that are of value to me (animals and books), I find that a worthwhile expense of my time.

I don't really like to do it, but doing charity gigs is a different thing; it gets me heard, introduces me to certain people, and as such can in certain ways be more valuable than being paid for my time in that particular instance. I don't do it for fuzzy feelings, as that really has no value to me.
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#55526 - 06/06/11 10:20 AM Re: Charity: Disaster Relief, Welfare, Donations, etc. [Re: Ghostly1]
Damis Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 60
Loc: England
When it comes to charity I like Rand's take on it. Fulfilling your own (rationally) selfish needs and desires first before even contemplating giving to others.

Most people earn their cash and therefore have a right to dispose of it how they so wish, this includes pissing it away on some inherently flawed charity project whose goals will never be met because they are tackling it the wrong way.

As the saying goes, "Give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, but teach him how to fish and he'll eat for a lifetime".

If it's a feed the African poor charity, your monetary contribution isn't going to do shit unless it's teaching them to feed and govern themselves. If it's in response to a disaster then that's all fine and dandy because it's towards a definite realizable goal in response to an event. And if it's towards a research charity, then all the better because that contribution if it helps find a cure will have a long lasting benefit and who knows; it could even benefit you someday.

Politically I'm against all forms of none privately funded aid, i.e Government aid to third world countries etc, because frankly it isn't their money to throw away, it's the tax that they harvest from the populace who earn it, which they obviously have to coerce. The problem is that you don't get a say as to if your tax money goes on charity or not.

So essentially I'm fine with others doing charity if it's what they want to do. But me personally if it ever was my will to give to a charity, I'd would make sure it actually counted for something, and I have given to charity on many occasion.


Edited by Damis (06/06/11 10:23 AM)
Edit Reason: Syntax
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