Page 1 of 1 1
Topic Options
#55452 - 06/03/11 05:40 PM Ambient Abuse
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Gaslighting is a form of "ambient abuse", its the most warped kind of negativistic passive aggressive mental abuse, perpetrated by very covert liars who drop subtle ambiguous hints by design, to make their victim doubt their own memory and perception and emotions.

If you have ever seen a talk show where they have a lie detector test which proved an assumed to be cheating partner was in fact innocent, it may not have come to your attention that they indeed were innocent of infidelity but could be guilty of something much much worse.

The partner was not cheating but deliberately dropping subtle hints to make the other parter think they were, making them doubt their sanity and feelings, making them very unwell.

Example: The couple hug on the show, and go home, the abuser can gaslight the abused again and again and the abused will never speak up thinking their emotional pain and stress is because they are "bad people" doubting their loved one for no reason.

Talk Show hosts have consigned many people with integrity into a life of emotional pain and insanity.

Why?

Hypothetically: I will go on the show; explain that the so called innocent people may well have been gaslighters, and explain ambient abuse to the host, and that he, the talk show host, must face the possibility that he is responsible for the immense emotional trauma of many integritous people. Trapped doubting their own minds and hearts, in pain and guilt because they are trapped with a gaslighter who has been proven innocent on a well respected talk show via lie detector. The talk show host goes pale, and vomits. Or simply calls me insane and tells me to leave the stage.
_________________________


Top
#55453 - 06/03/11 06:00 PM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: Hegesias]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The results of a polygraph are unreliable and as such they prove nothing other than that some people still believe in the veracity of the test.

My advice to you would be to stop watching daytime television.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#55454 - 06/03/11 06:40 PM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I apologise if my previous post was too much of a hypothetical example rather than direct explanation.

I don't have a TV. You may miss what I was "attempting" to vector or merely urging me to be more concise. It is not limited to daytime TV my friend but I used an example that people may recognise. Ambient Abuse is the most ignoble and needless, most covert abuse there is and it encompasses a wide range of actualisations.

Gaslighting to my knowledge has never been aired on TV.


Gaslighting is the systematic attempt by one person to erode anotherís reality. This is done by telling them that what they are experiencing isnít so, and results in the gradual culmination of mental trauma. Gaslighting is often perpetrated by "loved ones". There is no lie detector to prove this one hence my explanation as to why the wrong thing may be up for discussion on those shows.

This is manipulation defined by greed and selfishness to the needless degree that others are cardboard cut outs. It creates intense emotional cognitive dissonance in the victim's mind and heart and itís this stressful state of total cognizance about their apparently normal loved one, boss, even child, that can cause the victims to commit suicide for "no apparent reason".
_________________________


Top
#55481 - 06/05/11 12:49 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: Hegesias]
XBlackXScorpionX Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Arizona
Hegesias,
I've read what you have to say about "gaslighting" and all it's insidiousness. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter but it seems that you do. With that said I have two questions for you:

Have you ever been a victim of gaslighting?

Have you ever been a perpetrator of gaslighting?

Top
#55482 - 06/05/11 01:35 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: XBlackXScorpionX]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
When I was 19 I had one partner who done it too me because she was Narcissist and insecure constantly accusing me of cheating, her mother came to my home and told me what was going on because she saw I was a good guy or something. The people who gaslight are often image conscious or think they are fantastic because of their "getting one over on people" yet they can't make sustained eye contact, they seem to take pleasure in being smug and think you won't notice their transparent and needless lying. It's not that hard to spot one if you know what to look for. I'm confrontational and black humoured so it didn't last long, a few months before the benefit of the doubt turned to laughter and I left her. They will cry and beg on tap.

Long time ago.

It is easy for others to say "how foolish that would never happen to me" but the insidiousness and pathological lying that these people do is so unnecessary. If you are integritous and self confident and especially if you are positive, you won't even be able to imagine how they work as it's so unnecessary and childish that it defies belief.

Pushing awareness of Domestic Violence, psychological or otherwise is one of my hubris Noble causes that may anger dregs of society. Too many people in my life proving they are honourable and integritous for me to remain inwardly contrived.

Contrary to popular belief I'm not a complete cunt.

Being sinister as an insight, a much too vulgar display of power is one thing that disgusts me. The Satanist is a powerful adverse being in my worldview not an insecure coward.

INTOLERANCE!
_________________________


Top
#55503 - 06/05/11 06:24 PM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: Hegesias]
tuathacoagula Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 24
Loc: Japan
This thread struck a chord with me. Whilst I cannot think of an instance where I have been, or committed 'Gaslighting' the link to domestic abuse of the mental kind is a very sore spot. I will not recount my own recent history in any depth, but I can link this to Satanism 'in general'. Or at least Satanism in general 'for me' and how it has worked with other things in my life positively.

Part of my background can probably be argued to have influenced my choice to walk the LHP. This has led to both a greater understanding of myself, and the society that I find myself in. Whilst I cannot speak for the broader, wider efficacy of counselling, I have found that in my own experience guided self reflection has allowed me to develop a deep critical awareness of my own needs. This has led to a greater understanding of my own thoughts, and impact I have on the individuals I am close to, as well as their impact on me.

I take this all onboard as part of my growth, change and personal development. It has gone some way (the development, not just the counselling per se) to arming me with critical and evaluative tools for my own peace of mind and defence. After all, there is only 'I' in all this, and no-one can do anything for me unless I get off my own (metaphorical) fat arse and do it for myself.

It is unfortunate that domestic abuse aimed at men is not given wider coverage. Perhaps I am not looking, or I am guilty of being lazy in my assessment of the messages that are presented surrounding what constitutes 'abuse'. But in my experience there is certainly silence surrounding 'men as victims'.

Hegesias, you have raised an interesting point for me to consider.

Top
#79655 - 08/24/13 10:39 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: Hegesias]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6864
Loc: Virginia
Funny that Gas-lighting is only being used in a negative context here, wooden-nickles thrown upon the altars of Mental-health, eh?

Is Gas-Lighting an evil we should throw rocks at?


The term was coined to convey an effort to alter perception of reality. Should we rejoice in Mrs. Anton's (Ingrid Bergman) victimization or her liberation in self-realization [End-scene]?

By the 70's Gas-lighting was used in such a way to conceptualize the destruction of a person's subjective Reality. If that particular reality is self-defeating, wouldn't it then be viewed in a different light?

The third side (removing the actors 'Villain and Victim' played by others/society), doesn't a fair bit of Gas-lighting occur in your own head? You know certain truths about the self and yet you alter that perception with the little lies you tell until you begin to accept them as truths; maybe it's just a story you write in your own head and then go on to act the part of both Antagonist and Protagonist. It's possible to Gas-light yourself into seeing a way through to accomplish personal goals and experience personal success. It can't be all bad (evil).


Say you go on to be a Gas-Lighter and can effectively impress upon others and situations to your favor, surely this is good? The insanity of it all is really just part of the movie plot.

There's some gray areas (Void), no doubt, especially if you're engaged in the Devil's game but forget yourself and how it's played.

Are you a Gambling Man ??

 Quote:
On a warm summer's evenin' on a train bound for nowhere,
I met up with the gambler; we were both too tired to sleep.
So we took turns a starin' out the window at the darkness
'Til boredom overtook us, and he began to speak.

He said, "Son, I've made my life out of readin' people's faces,
And knowin' what their cards were by the way they held their eyes.
So if you don't mind my sayin', I can see you're out of aces.
For a taste of your whiskey I'll give you some advice."

So I handed him my bottle and he drank down my last swallow.
Then he bummed a cigarette and asked me for a light.
And the night got deathly quiet, and his face lost all expression.
Said, "If you're gonna play the game, boy, ya gotta learn to play it right.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.

Now Ev'ry gambler knows that the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away and knowing what to keep.
'Cause ev'ry hand's a winner and ev'ry hand's a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep."

So when he'd finished speakin', he turned back towards the window,
Crushed out his cigarette and faded off to sleep.
And somewhere in the darkness the gambler, he broke even.
But in his final words I found an ace that I could keep.

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.
You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.



Who makes the victim anyway?





Edited by SIN3 (08/24/13 10:41 AM)
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#79660 - 08/24/13 02:22 PM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1161
Loc: San Diego, CA
Subjective reality is just that, subjective. This does not translate into having no control over another's mind. As with all things, there is a fair bit of manipulation involved. It is said "gas-lighting" is the "sociopaths" often turned to modus operandi. It has been labeled as "evil" because it displays an ability to influence another's cognition of memory or self, often to assumed nefarious purpose by the "gas-lighter".

But is it all that sociopathic? Perhaps its an example of pride. Not conceding fault. This is an all too human behavior. If you convince another, you convince yourself, you escape fault. As the above post said this is done internally all the time, and can sometimes yield a self confidence you wouldn't have had otherwise.

This serves to maintain control.
_________________________
Broke his leg and had to be shot...

Top
#79849 - 08/27/13 07:41 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: Hegesias]
Claudia_ Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 54
 Quote:
When I was 19 I had one partner who done it too me because she was Narcissist and insecure constantly accusing me of cheating, her mother came to my home and told me what was going on because she saw I was a good guy or something.


I'm just curious, what makes you think that you know why she did this to you? I didn't know you could read minds. -_-
You assume she did this out of narcissism, but how would being narcissistic make her want to 'gaslight' you.

Not all narcissists gaslight, and not all people who gaslight others are narcissists. The same can be said for being insure.

Again, just out of curiosity.. do you really think that being suspicious about your partner cheating automatically implies insecurity?

 Quote:
The people who gaslight are often image conscious or think they are fantastic because of their "getting one over on people" yet they can't make sustained eye contact, they seem to take pleasure in being smug and think you won't notice their transparent and needless lying. It's not that hard to spot one if you know what to look for. I'm confrontational and black humoured so it didn't last long, a few months before the benefit of the doubt turned to laughter and I left her. They will cry and beg on tap.


Don't you think that's a bit of an over generalization?
I get that you're speaking from experience here, but you act as though you understand the psychology of every person who does this.
People certainly aren't this predictable, and assuming that they are seems to undermine the complexities of our reality.

 Quote:
insidiousness and pathological lying that these people do is so unnecessary


That really all depends on the context.

I 'gaslight', frequently. And personally, if you're actually getting something out of it and provided you're not hurting anyone (considerably), I don't think it's a problem.

Top
#79856 - 08/27/13 08:12 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6864
Loc: Virginia
It's used in Marketing Schemes all the time as the campaign appeals to the consumer's sense of pride. If the campaign is successful and the consumer buys the goods, the company just played a good hand.

These campaigns seek to affect the consumer's memory of self.

Just one example, religions do it too. Scientology's commercial's come to mind. Example
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#79945 - 08/28/13 08:20 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1161
Loc: San Diego, CA
Absolutely.

My example was from the perspective of an individual, as that is how it most often discussed in psychological text.

Scientology is a great example of how to distort another's memory of self for financial gain. Convince the mark they are completely miserable and in need of counseling, mix in a B-Rated sci-fi premise, and collect as they pay for years of thetan auditing.

Other examples in religion are words like "morality" and "sin". If one imposes an unnatural set of regulations on another to remain "pure" (in the eyes of "god"), they convince the other what is human in them is evil. The other now holds themselves in contempt for being what is natural. Memory of self manipulated.
_________________________
Broke his leg and had to be shot...

Top
#79947 - 08/28/13 08:26 AM Re: Ambient Abuse [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6864
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
My example was from the perspective of an individual, as that is how it most often discussed in psychological text.


In person-to-person interactions, again who makes the victim?

I suppose the OP is lamenting over just feeling like a sucker.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
Page 1 of 1 1


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.026 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 25 queries. Zlib compression disabled.