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#55464 - 06/04/11 09:47 AM Satanic Sin 8. Counterproductive Pride.
MattVanSickle84 Offline

Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 42
Loc: London, UK
"That first word is important. Pride is great up to the point you begin to throw out the baby with the bathwater. The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it."


In engaging in debate with my contemporaries and, I would say, intellectual superiors at the 600 Club I have become acutely aware of flaws in my own reasoning and my approach to argument and analysis which are not worthy of the site or it's purposes or the philosophy of Satanism itself. My output thus far has not been entirely consistent with my intentions to delve deeper into the Satanic philosophy. This has disturbed me greatly. As has my impertinence in some instances (specifically with regard to Ghostly1 and Diavolo).

The ways in which the philosophies of Satanism (through LaVey) have penetrated my existence and made me understand my true nature are numerous, undeniable and intensely powerful to me.

Many of my own arguments have simply served to make me aware of their own weaknesses, inconsistencies and sophistries.

I must be hard on myself for discipline and understanding, and the strength that this brings, require it. For any meaningful enlightenment to take place I must take responsibility, learn and move ahead. I have, in a sense, fallen at the bottom of the mountain. I will stand up, I will reflect and only then may I reach clarity. I will then return. For the summit to be reached the hardship is necessary.

To put this more simply, I have been taught the pricelessness of a good arsekicking.



The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.

#55466 - 06/04/11 10:48 AM Re: Satanic Sin 8. Counterproductive Pride. [Re: MattVanSickle84]
Diavolo Offline

Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Matt, the way you come across is as if you're tip-toeing, almost afraid of stating your opinion.

We're a pretty rough bunch and when debating, favor someone just saying it as they think it is without much defensiveness attached. It doesn't hurt to be wrong, I've been wrong more than I've been right in my life and that's the whole purpose of debate; realizing or being taught what is wrong and improving through that. I don't hesitate for a second debating with someone like Zophos knowing very well his educational background at certain subjects surely outshines mine but it doesn't disable me from stating my views. If his arguments show mine as weak, I will adapt, if they don't, I stand by them.

Don't be hesitant stepping on toes, the impression you make right now, and just participate embracing the fact your ass will be handed to you when needed, as you might do to others.


#55469 - 06/04/11 12:19 PM Re: Satanic Sin 8. Counterproductive Pride. [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member

Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Interesting, The only thing important to me is to resolve what is intrinsic in a world that I see as largely unnecessary, mundanes tantalised by fantastic mediocrity, even if it's me talking in first person I doubt that my own realisations are anything but devaluations of causal forms working back to Nature.

I try step outside of my primitive self to assess topics yet only view the world as largely alien and unnecessarily abstract, only being able to give the most primitive answers to what I see as oblivious nihilism, materialist apathy and hubris pride about mundane conformity.

My disgust emerges when men take petty liberties or have no respect for women, most tip toe around them. My unfettered capacity for rational violence, both mental and physical will land me in jail while the petty and needlessly abusive are free to be compromised utilitarian predators in the manner of children playing games. I not give a fuck what happens as long as I work well with my partner as equals.

There is no pride here about dominating mundanes only rage and disgust for a predictable and pitiless painting of banality I am forced to interact with, a world of smiling cardboard cut outs where it is difficult to know who is integritous and who is a petty opportunist.

Something that is repeated counter productive is my integrity and values of love, personal honour and loyalty only repeatedly retell me that my ideals are largely unrealistic yet the occasional person is more than, my pride only serves as justification to deem others ignoble and dishonourable by their very deeds. There are few I value and not because they prove worthy or anything like that, it is because they don't ask for anything and help themselves.

This is maybe why nothing is important except the expression of dominance, I must rationalise consideration or I destroy all who are close to me in this morally decayed society, I am a force of Nature not this crooked morality. Like Diavolo has advocated, the will to power is more powerful than the urge to survive and may overtake what I regard as inhibitory, self preservation fears.

I am always "wrong" in the moral sense of the word or otherwise as to know everything would be an affirmation of a fully examined life and inevitable loss of interest. The more we attain wisdom, or what we order in the mind what we assume is wisdom, relevant or otherwise absurd, the closer to disinterested in life we become.

So we ought to acknowledge that we are eternally "fools" and that this is a good thing, for whoever manages to decipher the natural causes from the abstract effects in and about our species is probably more likely to be closer to human in this tantalising shambles of abstract nonsense we call modern times.

There is little need for me to be derailed from the prime mover within. Obviously the opposite sex is my main concern and secondary is rationalising how to live as a man in this bizarre civilisation when I am certainly a primitive animal and a force of Nature. Sometimes I feel language itself is 90% needless explaining in complexity things that are inexplicably felt via processes that do not require linear fixation in the mind.

I often write to devalue causal forms to trace back to what is base simple intrinsic rather than to progress into complexity or convey a complex mind at work.

Much in the world seems to be needless distraction, I feel the world is caught up in the fantastic effects without understanding what causes their appearance and so cannot go back to being primal, a world of aesthetic appreciation and intellectual compartmentalisation is still better than the culmination of materialist apathy, no? Am I missing something crucial?

Although I appreciate art (anti art) and other forms of expressionism, I know that this is all here because man does not hunt daily to bathe in the warm blood and fear of prey— because he has "improved" himself so much.

#55470 - 06/04/11 01:40 PM Re: Satanic Sin 8. Counterproductive Pride. [Re: MattVanSickle84]
Morgan Offline

Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it.""

Yes and no.
If it works for you great, if not change it so it fucking does.

If you think and evaluate the situation before you act/speak, you won't paint yourself into a corner.

Making a mistake is one thing, making a compromise is another.
If you fuck up, then accept it.

Making a compromise sounds like/involves coming from two different directions and settling a so called middle ground.

A conversation/discussion/debate, can have winners, losers, and a convergent middle ground found after wards.

Disagreeing with someone and having your ass handed to you isn't wrong, unless you fail to be able to back up the shit you say.

In other words, if you have no clue keep your mouth shut lest you prove it.

Otherwise, don't be a pussy in discussions. Stand your ground and fight for what you believe to be true, even if it's a beautiful lie.

Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass

#55511 - 06/05/11 08:33 PM Re: Satanic Sin 8. Counterproductive Pride. [Re: MattVanSickle84]
Ghostly1 Offline

Registered: 04/10/11
Posts: 147
Loc: NY
I want to offer some specific examples of this very thing which I am exposed to on a daily basis. Some of you may be able to relate.

My current occupation requires me to be armed. It would also be an understatement to say I needed to have a healthy load of common sense and intelligence or the job in question could get me killed quickly.

Ive been here for about 7-8 years now, and over that length of time my skill and efficiency have improved and plateaued nicely. Every location is treated as if it might be my last, and Im always on alert for possible danger. If you were to compare me with my coworkers the story would be different indeed. The first detail noticed would be an apparent air of complacency. I weigh complacency alongside with counterproductive pride. Both can get you or other people seriously injured or killed. When you take things for granted, and assume by experience everything is going to be fine because well, nothing has ever happened. Yet. Its always "we never expected this" or "nothing never happens, we are so shocked" when its revealed people aren't as observant, or effective as they give themselves credit for.

Doing a job for 25 years doesn't make you an expert. It only makes you experienced, in that you can still be fucking up and think because of your tenure you know what you are doing. We have several people where I am who are exactly like that. If you dont watch them carefully they will forget something, or open themselves for harm. If you politely correct them all you get is a "I know what Im doing!" for your efforts.

"You left your gun in the bathroom again......" when spying an empty holster when they return from the restroom. Quickly followed by a panicked look and some expletive. Humility is a wonderful motivator, like pain.

You would be surprised how many big, important Bank executives fuck up when processing money and when I walk in the bank and proclaim them "failures" it gets reactions. But the next time, they are more careful in their own duties, reminded of the embarrassment in front of their staff by Lil ole me. Usually they dont make the same mistake twice.

How many times have anyone gassed up their car at a full service station only to have the professional attendant forget to install the gas-cap after filling your tank?

These may be minor observances, but they exemplify different characteristics of how pride, or complacency can cause problems in routine activities. Like a surgeon leaving a medical device lodged in your gut when he sews you up.

Philosophy is a guide. You use it to weigh your thought processes against others and decide which suits you best, so when you are called upon to think for yourself you do so with the knowledge and tools to do so in a effective manner. Never assume there is only one correct way to do something. There are many different roads to take to get to a destination, all that differs is the view as long as the destination is the same. Satanism has taught me to be more pragmatic, and thoughtful. Im less concerned with the destination now as I am the view from my seat. Enjoying everyday as best I can, as if were my last.

Be proficient, be observant, and more importantly be consistent in everything you do.... remember the "devil" is in the details.
Become a force of nature.

#107340 - 06/26/16 06:01 PM Re: Satanic Sin 8. Counterproductive Pride. [Re: MattVanSickle84]
Czereda Offline
senior member

Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2129
Loc: Poland
In engaging in debate with my contemporaries and, I would say, intellectual superiors inferiors at the 600 Club all over the internet I have become acutely aware of flaws the brilliance in of my own reasoning and my approach to argument and analysis which are not worthy of the site or it's purposes or the philosophy of Satanism itself truly awesome. My output thus far has not been entirely consistent with my intentions to delve deeper into the Satanic philosophy. This has disturbed me greatly It's really amazing how great I am.

Fixed. This is how the OP should look like. Since when has humility become a Satanic virtue?

Now all this counterproductive pride thing is all about diplomacy. It's purely pragmatic. It's sometimes better to say to your boss "you're right" even if the asshole is wrong as long as he pays you a nice amount of money. It's usually counterproductive to argue with an idiot or your grandpa suffering from dementia. And it might be at times pretty awkward to discuss certain matters at a family dinner table. It's all the matter whether pride and defiance in a given situation works for you or brings more harm than good.

I used to debate my auntie vigorously and over and over again, usually over politics, and now, oh irony, I have the same views as her. But back then I saw things differently and were so passionate about my beliefs. I've been having some discussions with my friends too and what's wrong with that? What does it matter whether you're right or wrong? Opinions are like assholes and they are dynamic, they keep changing in the course of time.

It's much more interesting to stand up for your beliefs, to passionately express your views, than keep groveling and humbly apologizing for daring to think. Of course, the way you see the world can change as you grow older and gain more experience. Even online, it doesn't matter who is superior when it comes to intelligence. Even the smartest person can sometimes talk out of his ass. What matters are arguments. If your opponent's arguments are convincing, it's no shame to change your stance in a debate and admit you were initially wrong. If they are not convincing enough, then by all means duke it out. This is what you have a forum for.
Anna Czereda
Crazy Cat Lady

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