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#56099 - 06/20/11 07:41 PM Borderline disorder
Miss May Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
borderline personality disorder is a mental illness. People with BPD are often uncertain about their identity. As a result, their interests and values may change rapidly.
People with BPD also tend to see things in terms of extremes, such as either all good or all bad. Their views of other people may change quickly. A person who is looked up to one day may be looked down on the next day. These suddenly shifting feelings often lead to intense and unstable relationships. Some of the symptoms include intolerance of being alone, repeated crises and acts of self-injury, such as wrist cutting or overdosing, and fear of being abandoned. When learning about this disorder, it occurred to me that this definition seems to match that of a psychic vampire. In Satanism, stability is sought after and i honestly believe that anyone suffering from this disorder would find the Satanic Bible extremely useful in their recovery, if they were open to the idea of it. I would greatly appreciate any input from my fellow satanists this subject. Do any of you believe this philosophy to hold water.....

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#56102 - 06/20/11 08:07 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
Daafje666 Offline
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Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 73
Loc: The Netherlands
I've dated a girl with BPD for a couple of months and I recommended TSB to her, but unfortunately she took it as an insult.
But I think your in the right direction with this philosophy. Since a person with borderline often has problems with rational thinking so the TSB would be a good start for them.

A down side of this methoud could be that since a person with borderline often thinks in black and white, it could result in more extreme thinking considering that some things on TSB require some personal interpretation.
(For example the 11 Satanic rules of the earth)
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#56134 - 06/21/11 02:46 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The following words may be permeated with a sense of black humour, hence, the following may be considered nonsense or merely words of insanity, considering what passes as modern psychology with it's moral word associations, this would not be surprising. If what lies below appears incomprehensible or absurd, then forget these words forever.

Some individuals have a problem with "object constancy" which can be summarised as: The maintaining of a lasting relationship with a specific object ideal, and rejecting all and any substitute for such an object.

The individual sees in absolutes, black and white, others are either "all good" or "all bad", thus bolstering idealisation and devaluation. Idealisation is supposedly necessary for feelings of mature love but at this stage idealisation is associated with borderline pathology. I can elaborate insofar as to describe polarised extremes as not necessarily an entirely "bad" thing.

I can relate to object constancy through of my code of personal honour. I do not use the traditional morality terminology of good and bad unless it is to apply a distinction apart from it. I apply something else in which good equates to "noble" or bad equates to the "despicable" or peasantry evil.

Here are three kinds of people, the last one is beyond traditional moral constraints, yet the other two have little or no gradients in-between what is the good and the bad of which everyone has a little good and bad in the Judeo-Christian paradigm.

I shall explain the irony of the good, the bad and the ugly:

The Good (moral nay-sayer, glorifier of the powerless, imposes equality out of envy, overtly passive aggressive and hubris about being "a good person", fond of moral blackmail, orderly insofar as being predictable)

The Bad (the tactless, much too vulgar a display of power, deliberately immoral (not amoral), tantalised over fantastic mediocrity, ill mannered opportunist, petty thief, misogynist etc.)

And then there is The Ugly (the sinister and adept expresser of the will to power, both direct and subtle forms, proving that nature's raw ugliness is beautiful and demands respect).

The third person I will describe relates to nobleness and adept tactfulness with his/her evil relating to transgression, expression to live and affirm life with courage. The despicable is always relating to a much to vulgar a display of power: misogyny, child neglect etc. filthy pettiness punishable by violent conclusion, in my worldview. The other two types of people described would equate to the negative, nay-saying, or transparent and tactless individuals who embody and perpetuate the open and disguised forms of despicableness, ignobleness, and dishonourableness.

Bare in mind the first two types "the good and the bad" like to switch roles when convenient within their scope of utilitarian compromise.

Say, a person is either shy or rude, that person has defined themselves despicable by their needlessly short attention span towards thinking deeply about what they want from life. They will be seen as nothing more than a unwanted follower, a parasite that will only skew my gait, they'll be quickly domineered or preferably, dismissed, politely if possible. An incompetent person whether insecure or hubris about it is still incompetent and therefore a parasite. I will see them as inept at bolstering any productivity exemplary of strength.

I'm continually painted as the image of a heartless, inhuman being by my team of mental health workers who like to cloak moral judgements in a white lab coat, they squirm at my presence and show body language that is cagey while I enthusiastically express my value for things. I'll often come across as arrogant, opinionated, domineering, and sarcastic to "some" and not all males and females. Those who are self-assured often laugh seeing the funny side and show the same respect right back in a relaxed atmosphere. It is the majority of nervous and twitchy individuals who make the atmosphere turn negative for themselves because they can't assert their tried and trusted, morally acceptable, disguised forms of the will to power effectively.

Mundanes are tactless and oblivious and appreciate nothing beyond the promising plentitude of their security blanket contentments. I find it very hard to confer respect unto somebody who thinks they have got one up on me with a transparent act of emotional or moral blackmail. Mundanes assume that when their acceptable blackmail fails, that I have a lack of empathy, when it's my emotional intelligence and cognitive intelligence that is beyond their experience, not any higher than anyone else's, but those who would think otherwise simply have a poor attention span, being so unaccustomed to thinking deeply about anything at all that they assume I lack empathy, rejecting what I have expressed simply because the direct tone of it is perceived as unsympathetic to them.

For the most part, I've never remained attached to anyone or anything, but to my friends for many many years. I don't use others as a prime modus because I affirm value in higher ideals, I'm often stimulated by what my partner values, and likewise impressed by what my friends produce for themselves and I've never had any reason to betray or dismiss my partner or friends simply because nobody here takes petty liberties like mundanes do in their tolerant and contented worldview. The deal is simple, lets cut the shit and get productive and stimulated, which to me is more honest, caring and attentive than pottering about being needlessly reassuring to negative and insecure people who feel they have superior emotions simply because they have infantile and abysmal powers of control over them, assuming that people like me will respond in the same way to their inept blackmailing ways.

The negative get fucked over on principal for stepping on my time. Once a person has proved themselves as noble through their deeds I'll likely respect that person forever regardless of my preference to being fond of them or not. Revenge is not so important to me as an emotional appeasement, as singular mundanes are not important enough to devote such attention, but I have no problem in using an offender as a cardboard cut out to exemplify my power to other potentially suitable candidates.

I have not read the Satanic Bible since I was quite young, I have respect and have been looking up select parts now and then, also because that book was how I came to discover Nietzsche and then onto other currents of the sinister.

I do believe your philosophy to hold water but how about emptying your cup to have it filled? Such could be regarded as being uncertain about ones identity and as a result, interests and values may change rapidly. A revaluation of values is not for some. Stability seems to be the issue but on what terms and what is "stability"? Is stability a settlement on a pleasing state of egocentricity or the ability to remain cool in chaos and uncertainty?
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#56170 - 06/22/11 07:09 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
The seriousness of this condition, fortunately, can be easily and economically (5¢) corrected through experienced professional psychiatric help.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#56188 - 06/23/11 11:08 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
William Wright Offline
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I think reading the Satanic Bible would be good for anyone open to its concepts. However, people with mental illnesses may not be in the proper frame of mind to understand and utilize these concepts. Those believed to be suffering from a mental illness would probably benefit more, at least in the beginning, from the help of a trained mental health professional.

I don’t think most psychic vampires suffer from mental illnesses. I think they know exactly what they’re doing and are often quite clever. If I ran across someone I thought was a psychic vampire, I wouldn’t hand him a Satanic Bible. I’d get the fuck away.
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#56264 - 06/26/11 03:00 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: William Wright]
assault_ninja Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
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Well, I doubt that Satanism could have and use for people with BPD.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure that there are more satanists with schizoid personality disorder, than within general public.

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#56265 - 06/26/11 04:05 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Conjecture.

I'll go out on a limb here and assert that a Satanist is more often calm and rational in visiting pain unto enemies.

Borderline personalities, with the very nature of their condition itself being on the fence, can tread the murky water between psychotic behaviour and psychopathic behaviour.

Psychopaths and psychotics are two very very different sets of conditions with very different propensities, the psychopath is calm and methodical, a cerebral sadist with deep seated rage, and a psychotic is nervous and reacts with obsessional compulsions, very different to impulses that a psychopath has, it's all up to the individual as there will most certainly be variable gradients as to rationality, balance between willpower and impulse and how a person individuated, if at all.

Borderlines may harm themselves, even feign suicide attempts then lie compulsively and arrange theatrical events to the point of absurdity to impose the blame on those around them convincingly. They are parasitic and impose burden on their surroundings.

Psychic vampire is somebody who leeches off the energies of others, an opportunist who has coloured his inane persona with a silly name.

I've always preferred to visit pain and suffering unto those who have a conception of sadism themselves, thereby visiting a much more severe sense of sobriety about what is being done to them and what will be done to them.

A psychic vampire or social parasite of any other name, relies on others being compassionate or otherwise emotionally respondent unto their cognitive distortion regimes.

All in all I'd say there is some potentiality for borderlines to express what conventional morality would define as evil, Satanist label or otherwise.

But some of us see an inept display of peasantry evil as a window of opportunity to express our intimate disgust.
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#56284 - 06/27/11 06:20 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
assault_ninja Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
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Oh, also I forgot to mention that a proper psychic vampire has narcissistic personality disorder, not borderline.
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#56289 - 06/27/11 08:46 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: assault_ninja
Well, I doubt that Satanism could have and use for people with BPD.

On the other hand I'm pretty sure that there are more satanists with schizoid personality disorder, than within general public.


I'm curious. Do you have some kind of proof to back up your opinion? Or is it just something you "think"?

You do realize that the "norm" in today's general public is on some kind of medicine to keep their mood and/or mind in a "normal" state, right? You also realize that a lot of the population in the US considers themselves to be Christian, right?
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#56304 - 06/28/11 04:25 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Some Satanists have borderline Satanism disorder, they don't know what's theistic or atheistic.

Seriously though,

If lasting pleasure comes about as a result of being able to live according to one's instincts which is the ability to express the will to power. This would explain a lot of things. Normal people do not have the ability to act violently toward one another because of the Judeo-Christian pathos infection in their souls, and not necessarily because of the Judicial deterrent as would be the only obstacle to deter a sinister individual. In other words, normal people cannot exert their will to power in the violent ways which nature would express. So they use passive aggressive disguised forms.

What is the psychic vampire type person doing otherwise? Is he compromised in expressing the will to power, and if so, in what way, or is he adept at doing so in a societally unacceptable, disguised form?
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#56306 - 06/28/11 05:52 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
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I'd say it's my educated guess. It's not proven, since there were no studies on it, but if there's going to be one, I'm pretty sure it will be.

Sorry, I could not catch the point of your questions in the second paragraph.

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#56312 - 06/28/11 08:47 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Your educated guess? Are you a psychologist that sees a lot of Satanist with mental disorders or something? Why would you think that there would be more psychological disorders in the Satanic community than in the general public? Think hard about what I asked prior and you just might get my points.
Or maybe not.....
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#56322 - 06/29/11 09:05 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Satanism being based around rationality and the tangible, in many ways the realisation of a dialectic between Dionysian passions and Apollonian reasoning towards the expression of the will to power.

A Satanist is hardly going to be neurotic unless he has borderline Satanist disorder, which is a Satanist disturbed by theistic memes. If a Satanist is going to be into hokery pokery then let them parade themselves as something exemplary of Zarathustra's ape highly suitable for the Blackwood circus.
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#56328 - 06/29/11 10:59 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
There's more people with a particular personality disorder, not "more psychological disorders". Why? Because Satanism fits really well on top of it.
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#56330 - 06/29/11 11:25 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Are there more people with a personality disorder in Satanism than any other group? No matter how plausible this seems, I don't think so. Most people considering themselves satanists are just as normal as those that don't. I'd say most hardly differ at any level.

But even when, there sure are those in Satanism that would classify as having a specific personality disorder not because they suffer one but because society considers their behavior or thinking as a personality disorder.

To give you an example; I'm a pretty normal person if I may say so myself. I don't run through town after dark, rubbed in feces, stalking lonely pedestrians at the park. But when I visit a bar, I always position myself in such a manner, I have a view on about everything, especially the entrance. I also directly scan my direct environment for eventual hardware. Ashtray check, glass check, bottles check, spoon check...etc. If I'd reveal this “habit” to an analyzer of minds, I don't doubt a specific label will be slapped on it. But the question remains if I am showing signs of a disorder or if all those that do not have this habit suffer one?

D.

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#56331 - 06/29/11 11:26 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Disorder (or chaos) can be observed as the inability to perceive order or design.

In this we see that the uncertainty about the modus operandi of certain individuals is met with an apprehensive fear about it's chaotic potentia for social anarchy, resulting in a perceived to be disordered person, insofar as society's expectations and limitations being transgressed.

A state's expression of the will to power over the individual would impose cognitive conditioning towards perpetuating the conventional, docile, personality order types, highly preferred by the state.
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#56351 - 06/30/11 09:20 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
You stated "schizoid personality disorder" and schizoid infers psychological as well. You claim to have made an educated guess...well then, you should have seen the connection between what I was referring to.

http://www.bing.com/health/article/mayo-...nality+disorder

I think the medical "world" looks for terminology to classify just about any kind of personality/psychological manifestation a person can possibly have. "Normal" or not doesn't seem to be their concern. And because the medical world likes to pad their pockets they would tell you that breathing isn't "normal" if they could, just to prescribe a medication and/or medical treatment.

It's normal to not like someone and want them to stay the hell out of your life. That doesn't make you abnormal. It's normal to have a bad day, where things just don't go the way you feel everything should. That doesn't make you abnormal. It IS normal to not want everyone and anyone in your life controlling everything you do. That doesn't make your feelings/thoughts schizoid. Any more everyone wants to stay on some kind of plateau and never have a bad day, sad feelings, adjust to new situations that they don't like or may not be able to "control" and the medical industry has given them the perfect escape through pharmaceuticals. Pop a pill and poof, you're normal again instead of having to deal with your feelings, thoughts, or even life.

As I asked before, you do realize that most Americans identify as having some kind of belief in God (hence: are Christian of some kind) and a lot of Americans are on some kind of mood/mind altering medications, right? That's what is considered "normal" anymore. Following some sky god while medicated to alter the brain in some way. If knowing that everything I think/feel is real, legit, not modified because I am clean of any kind of mind/mood altering medication then I guess I should seek help for my personality "disorder".

I'd be interested in a study to see if the Satanic community is any different in that respect. From what I have viewed over the years, Satanists are not much different than any other part of society in the respect of any kind of "disorders". They just don't tolerate much bullshit from anyone and don't feel they need to "love" everyone, including their neighbors, family or anyone else if they don't want to. That doesn't mean Satanists have a "schizoid personality disorder" more so than any other part of the general public. Your "educated guess" doesn't fly too well.
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#56355 - 06/30/11 10:24 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
Hegesias Offline
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Posts: 725
The shallowness of people is so very very ugly, there isn't anything on the earth as ugly as a person numb with moral conceit.

There are also those showing off a sense of superior emotions simply because they break down with an infantile display of tears, or panic easily. They lack emotional intelligence but it's the shocking lack of empathy that makes them so ugly and theatrical, it's all to do with how terribly censored their innate drives are by the ego belief system.

They are the ones who cannot respect animals, cannot relate to their children, cannot even make love properly because they cannot disengage the ego. However, these so called normal people are fascinated by those leaning more towards psychopathy they perceive the sex as wild and intense like a game, until the psychopath becomes disgusted by the shallowness of the so called normal person and seeks a response through sadism, the only way to get a so called normal person to respond beyond the pretence of their inhibitions of ego. This can be a hollowing life thinking one's feelings are somehow too strong and that one needs to become carefree and shallow to fit in, there is no way to become shallow like them, so one must pretend.

When a psychopath shuts out the world that is shallow, time and time again hitting a brick wall, the turning is final and then there is only detachment and rage. I know for a fact this happens and is what leads media to demonise the psychopathic propensity.

I continue to question so called normal peoples gaps in emotional and empathic functioning.

Academia's clever portrayal of the psychopath is skewed by derailments of morality cloaked in a white laboratory coat.

Here is conjecture to take how you like. I'm not trying to say anything pretend in academic studies except the tone being a moral one, hence, bias, as what isn't presented is what's important to mention because I see gaps in context that deserves exposure.

I can conjecture that psychopaths go through life knowing that they are different from other people. They quickly learn to hide their broader scope of awareness, while carefully studying as to mimic the infantile limitations of what they see as the handicapped. However, after hitting a brick wall time and time again, the psychopath realises that others lack empathy and rely on something called morality first and foremost, this is done quite effortlessly as the psychopath only need hide his advancement. This is a sad reality and creates hatred for the shallow people who are unresponsive and oblivious like programmed robots. The psychopath does not lack empathy but allows perfectly natural functioning empathy beyond compartmentalised fixations of morality. The innate drives are less filtered by the censorship of the ego.

Obviously a person leaning towards psychopathy can be of a despicable rather than of a nobler kind, but simply because the nature of psychopathic propensity is potentially dangerous, Judeo-Christian society would demonise absolutely everything to do with it, and in turn, exalt their twisted morality.

I conjecture that all hierarchies inevitably come under domination of those leaning more towards psychopathy. It does not matter what religion or culture the psychopaths are mechanising, it's all about the will to power, which the disguised forms can mechanise causal forms. Wars are ritualised mass murders by psychopaths of non psychopaths, as non psychopaths actually stutter about killing, and in doing so, risk the lives of the whole platoon.

The human being, actually being human, leans more toward psychopathy, not necessarily the isolated psychopath who is an autonomous isolationist against all and everyone, that's a sad reality that results from the numb Judeo-Christian society all around. Atrocity occur when psychopaths can't relate to anyone in their whole lives.

Nihilism remains one of the hardest terms to define in philosophy but is inexplicably felt. The nihilist rejects what society wants him to believe, and instead focuses on what it is logical to deduct from the world. A rejection of solipsism, a rejection of narcissism.

Therefore, only those who are victims of their own ego beliefs are the ones who are inhuman. Why? Psychopath or so called normal person is irrelevant as to being detached from nature due to the ego belief system. I conjecture that psychopaths who commit atrocity are only pushed that far by never having an outlet for their innate drives, the so called normal person is contented with fantastic mediocrity because they have a low capacity for handling stimulation, hence, they feel less but think they feel more because their thresholds are shallow.
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#56359 - 06/30/11 11:27 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Hegesias my friend, I'm pondering if I should quit my day-job to find the time to read your posts.

You know I like you but you should maybe consider the saying "less is more". Anything worthwhile can also be expressed in a couple of words.

D.

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#56363 - 06/30/11 12:20 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The unforgivable thing is that I'm aware of the idea of saying a lot in a few sentences, why I most like yours and Skaff's way of writing.

I'm simply too impulsive and it's hard for me to filter things.
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#56368 - 06/30/11 01:10 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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I know my friend, at times the words control us instead of we them. But in the end, that's just another monster to conquer.

D.

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#56373 - 06/30/11 03:41 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
Psychiatry does not care about what's normal. It's purpose is to treat people with mental illnesses. Personality disorders are considered mental illnesses because they're really harmful for patient himself. "Normal" never enters the picture. Yes, there were times and places where it did, but current USA is not one of them.
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#56396 - 06/30/11 09:51 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
I do believe we're in agreement that nothing really is "normal" in the US then, other than finding that "plateau" according to Psychiatry. Meds and all.

Out of sheer curiosity, what "schizoid personality disorder" do you believe most Satanists do have? Best educated guess? And how is that harmful to said Satanists? A few easy questions. Let's see if you can give some straight up answers.
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#56398 - 06/30/11 09:55 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Diavolo I believe it's called "word salad", just not tossed. I'm not sure what he started with but some how he manages to throw in everything and occasionally finds the kitchen sink in there as well.

Now just to find my damn decoder ring so I can figure out what the hell it's all suppose to mean as a response to what I wrote! If I get that far I might be able to respond and still end up on-topic?
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#56404 - 06/30/11 11:39 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
Zophos Offline
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Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
Nyte:

 Quote:
Now just to find my damn decoder ring so I can figure out what the hell it's all suppose to mean as a response to what I wrote!

You know the truth, grasshopper: the decoding apparatus has been with you all along.

There remains now only the great secret of how to awaken its power. You must enter the profile of Hegesias himself, and use the legendary Key of Ignore to unlock the final attainment in your quest. When thereafter you encounter his posts, your eyes will then, and only then, behold what they have always meant: nothing at all.

(As Hegesias has been temporarily banned, the above is somewhat less profound than it might be, but you get the idea.)




Z.
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Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

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#56407 - 07/01/11 09:12 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Zophos]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Now, that was entertainment. Pure fun to read Zophos. Thank you, I needed that. \:D

My decoder ring has been working well. I have him on ignore but because of Diavolo's commentary, I just had to see what was in Hegesias' post. I do have to say though, I would have missed the temp-ban completely due to lack of focus. Working in the heat tends to make the brain feel completely beat by the end of the day and not focus as well as it should by the time I get to sit down and read. As the grasshopper, I will have to keep my eyes more observant from now on, no matter how tired I may be. Thank you for keeping me focused Zophos.

By the way, what personality disorder would feel may fit yourself being you are here?
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#56422 - 07/01/11 04:28 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
Diavolo I believe it's called "word salad", just not tossed. I'm not sure what he started with but some how he manages to throw in everything and occasionally finds the kitchen sink in there as well.


Well, I do enjoy our friend's posts and see valuable thinking in it but that's me, I like salad. I also notice that many posts on the forum don't even contain salad, all too often they're empty bowls occasionally a lonely pea included, so personally I prefer something maybe cruder or uncommon but having a degree of content above the quick and easy digestible having hardly any.

D.

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#56423 - 07/01/11 05:14 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
D, when you speak of Heg I get the feeling like you are being protective over your retarded little brother. What is it that only YOU seem to be able to see that redeems his writing, gives it worth?

I seriously hope he never comes back.
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#56424 - 07/01/11 05:34 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I see potential my friend and that's a rare thing among satanists.

D.

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#56426 - 07/01/11 06:10 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I agree with Diavolo.
"I see potential my friend and that's a rare thing among satanists."

The world must be ending soon, because more often it seems that I find myself and Diavolo on the same page.

I didn't agree with the ban at all, but shit happens and I understand why.

Besides, not everyone will agree and get along, and why the fuck should we?

I enjoy the word soup and salad better than the whos the best black metal band posts.

M
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56428 - 07/01/11 06:43 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I understand the reasoning behind the temporary ban.

If there are lessons to be learned from this, it is to not count your words but make them count, and if someone has nothing to offer, wonder if you are.

For the rest, nothing to see, no harm done, proceed please.

D.

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#56429 - 07/01/11 09:09 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
"I enjoy the word soup and salad better than the whos the best black metal band posts."

Sure sure, and I enjoy getting kicked in the nuts better than having my fingernails pulled with pliers. Surely there is a third option?
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#56432 - 07/02/11 12:50 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
The third option is to put him on ignore and quit bitching.


That being said, it was always an option.


M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56434 - 07/02/11 02:50 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Yes, the morgan era is in place. Let mediocrity have full reign.

You know, I don't know why I ever went to bat for you at all. Making you a mod has single handedly ruined this place. Consider this my resignation.
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#56436 - 07/02/11 05:02 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I see.

You have no idea about the past you weren't there. If anything, the emotional whiney bullshit that is going on wouldn't have been stood for. A few blues would have been on a time out.

You don't like my opinions, fine.
I don't turn my back on friends because of a difference of opinion over a man.

So, I ruined this place because I enjoyed Hegasis writings.
or
was it because I just temp banned someone for hitting on me and being annoying through private messages
or
was it some other reason you want to put out there?

Thanks Dan, that's 3 times, you pulled shit like this on me since December. I have to say, sadly I expected it.

Whatever, do as you will, its no skin off my ass.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56437 - 07/02/11 05:16 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Yes, the morgan era is in place. Let mediocrity have full reign.


Mediocrity has always been in full reign on the internet Dan. There are priorities my man and this should not be important enough to escalate into anything.

D.

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#56439 - 07/02/11 06:49 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Consistency, Morgan.

You know how I feel about you, and damned if it doesn't make me sad as hell to see you sticking up for someone who, if you are going to be honest with yourself, has done the same thing that you, Nem, and others have been four square against in the past and have indeed supported for banning. Heg has posted SHIT. Rambling, off topic, random word soup that, were it OrgasmicKarmatic or Xuigi (or whatever her name was), you would (and did) want banned.

Me too. I won't be hypocritical about it. I, as did you and others, demanded that people come up to standard, rather than lowering our standards to meet the lowest denominator. We've used counseling, and we've used temp-bans and some have bounced back and become regulars people could enjoy reading. You, Nem, Diavolo, and Skaff have all spoken to Heg and he has, each time, reverted to form. A temp-ban was the next logical step.

So now all of this threatening because several people (and not just a few of us blues) call him out to step up his game. Nem even said it... he's been talked to over and over. It's reminiscent of Meq with his threats, Morg... and DAMN, if that doesn't make me sad to say. But if it means you'll be telling me I should get a "time out," please, if that's what you need to do, go ahead and do it. The 600 Club isn't the be all and end all of my existence. If you want my "blue suit," take it. I think I can function perfectly well here with or without it. If you think that means our friendship is over... well then, it would appear all I have done was waste time and good thoughts for someone I truly respect and admire. But I've made my bones here, just as you, Diavolo, Nem and others have. Threats don't faze me much.

Now, if we're going to lower that standard, great. It's not my board, and I don't make the rules. But let's be consistent and let's be intellectually honest and do it for all. and not just those you agree with or enjoy reading, because that can truly be said for each person who is banned for "word to value" ratios, etc. SOMEBODY is enjoying their writings, even though others might not. Let's simply drop the facade and admit that The 600 Club is NOT a cut above other sites, but just another site where one can come and post whatever, whenever. Instead of it becoming Fist's "Nexus" on the web, it can become just another of the thousands of other sites with black backgrounds and the wannabes of "the dark side" rolling 16 sided dice and throwing fireballs.

Even Camelot fell.

But please, my dear friend... and you know I mean that... don't YOU fall with it.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#56440 - 07/02/11 07:42 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Jake999]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Let me see if understand this....

You and Dan are both pissed and threatening to leave over 1 persons writings.

No one else has.


Its funny and sad.
You both call me soft because I and the other Mods didn't ban his ass when you both called for it back in April.

Now he gets a time out, and I get called out for being the downfall of this place because I didn't agree with it.

I simply explain how things were in the past, and you get pissed.

Honestly, nothing will make the two of you happy in regards to Hegesis. Do you both want his head on a plate?

You both don't know what get discussed between the Mods and Administration. Yet you both are claiming to know what is best.

Whatever, I'm tired, this is stupid.
I like both you guys but I don't understand the emotions wrapped up in this.
You both got your way, he was temp banned yesterday.
So why aren't you both happy now?

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56441 - 07/02/11 09:32 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I'm not pissed. I haven't threatened to leave. I told you I don't post much here anymore because of the general direction the place has taken. I stand by that, but I have never stopped supporting this place or trying to make it better.

DAN called you the downfall of this place, Morg. I didn't. My personal take on the reason things are going downhill is that there's no sense of direction and that the standards we once knew are lacking. Hardly YOUR fault. It seems systemic, and the owner of the site is absent. When he does appear in chat, he says a few things, but not to those who have the hammer. It's clear that a clear sense of direction from Rick is in order, but I'm sure from what he's said in chat that he's busy as hell, much to the site's detriment. I consider Dan a very good friend, but we don't always agree or think alike by any means.

What I want with Hegesis is the same thing I want with every other poster. I want to be able to go through a thread and read it... digest it... and not have to plod through 1000 words of gobbledegoop saying the same thing over and over, to get to the 20 words that might have meaning to the thread at hand. Yes, I know we can put people on ignore. I have him on ignore. But when following the threads, something relevant to the subject at hand from one of his posts might be mentioned and, to put it into context usually requires seeing how he used his words within the text of his post... have to go out of ignore for that, and then it's like pulling wisdom teeth to get through. If it were on thread or two, mox nix. But the man has word barfed in many threads, usually out of context.

OK. The man has temp ban and what I am hoping is that he gets it under control. Nothing more and nothing less. I'm sure that there are several on the Forums who agree with me, if only for the fact that we'd like to not HAVE to put people on ignore. I regularly read the posts of people I don't agree with and enjoy the experience... MAA for one... he's not on ignore, and he makes long posts as well, but they have meaning and he's not "talking out of his ass" -- most of the time. \:\)

As for being happy... babycakes, happy is just something that the boards can't make me... can't make me sad either. This is simply a Forum. While I might feel strongly about something, anger seldom occurs. Joy seldom occurs. Most times, It's more like irritation when my time is sucked up plodding through 1000 words that could have conveyed a message in 200. Hey... I'm old. Minutes count.


Edited by Jake999 (07/02/11 09:35 AM)
Edit Reason: ** I consider Dan a very good friend...
_________________________
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#56446 - 07/02/11 12:26 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Morgan you simply ruined this place. You fucked up the zach situation, you routinely threaten people both in public and behind closed doors with 'my way or the highway' toe the line or else bullshit, you are rude, disrespectful to those whom have shown you nothing but respect (myself) and you seem incapable of owning your actions about any of it. Frankly, I feel nothing but disgust for you anymore, and by proxy this place I once loved that you have single handedly turned to shit.

For the record, because I know you are going to try to spin this, this has nothing to do with hegasias, or the lackadaisical moderation of this place. This is simply a straw piled on top of a mountain of fucking straws, all re YOU morgan, and the horses back can only take so much.
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#56449 - 07/02/11 01:19 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
As a matter of public record, and as a matter of clarification, I have a deep respect for most of the blue names here, and also many of the greens, especially Skaf and Nem. If my laying it out like this, stepping over the line we are supposed to toe, results in my removal from the familiars, it's a price well paid for no longer holding my tongue on this. This is something that has been ongoing for a long time, and though this is just my voice here, publicly, many of these same sentiments have been expressed to me by many others.
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#56452 - 07/02/11 01:26 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Dan, if people would get de-blued for having criticism, I'd be white as a babies ass. It takes more than stepping on toes. Issues are there to be solved.

D.

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#56454 - 07/02/11 01:36 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
We shall see, D, we shall see.
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#56467 - 07/02/11 04:45 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Lets see...

The Zach situation was solved and fixed. He is active and a member here. Would you like a signed note from him saying so? Zach is a grown man, and can defend himself. If he and I settled that shit, who are you to try to reopen it?

I don't threaten people. I don't have to.
I list options, no one pays to be here. Its the internet, if you don't like it, change the channel or put someone on ignore.

Really, if possible can you list the people who feel that I disrespected them? Anyone?

I see, so once again because I didn't tow your line and agree with a banning that happened, I am the ruination of this place.
Hmm, sounds kinda petty because you got your way and that person is banned.

So now you hate me, and what I have supposedly done for no reason?

Its not about Zach, its not about Hegasis, its not about the idiot who bothered me chat. Then maybe its time you looked inside and find out why on a personal level you have so much hatred towards me now after all the times in the past I defended your ass, and pushed for you to be made blue again.

I don't understand you Dan, and I am sorry that all this hatred towards me has been made public fodder. This isn't SIN, this isn't the fight room, this is the 600club, but I guess the vernier of civility is off.

All in all, I don't hate you. I am just saddened that you feel this way.

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56469 - 07/02/11 06:12 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I don't hate you, Morgan, and frankly am a little disappointed you again deflect all responsibility and have chosen to pull the victim card here.
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#56472 - 07/02/11 07:04 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA


(1) You have a personal problem with another 600Cer, take it to PM. If that doesn't work, [also privately] ask the mediation of someone up the totem pole.

(2) You don't like someone's posts, just put him/her on "ignore" and give your time & attention to other 600Cers who do interest and impress you. [As a matter of courtesy, don't post concerning an "ignored" person.]

(3) People who post here presumably expect some interest and feedback. If enough people "ignore" you, formally or otherwise, you'll eventually lose interest and leave. So "ignore" is a gradual, non-crisis, problem solver, not a buck-passer.

(4) Indeed, if I were designing this board and had the option, I would add to each person's postings the names of those 600Cers currently "ignoring" him/her. Everyone involved might learn something constructive.

(5) Lighten up, take slow/deep breaths, go do a workout at the gym, get laid, watch the sunset.

... just my
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56478 - 07/02/11 09:16 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
For once I agree with you Pat. You will hear no more of this from me \:\)
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#56563 - 07/05/11 08:11 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
There's only one "schizoid personality disorder" and I never said that "most satanists" have it. And yes, it's harmful to those satanists, but Satanism can be a form of therapy for this disorder.
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#56564 - 07/05/11 09:40 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Are you a Satanist? Have you been with a Satanist? Do you "see" any other personality disorders?

From everything I've read on SPD, that's not an accurate "diagnosis". Satanists "choose" to withdrawl from specific people in their lives, where someone with SPD doesn't have a choice. It happens because of the SPD, which is completely different. Also, those with SPD are "emotionally cold", again without choice. I personally am not emotionally cold at all and I happen to know several other Satanists that aren't. We choose who we "allow" to see our emotions (completely). Again, a huge difference.
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#56578 - 07/06/11 04:40 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
I don't consider myself a satanist.

On the other hand I know quite few satanists. I also know one who has SPD diagnosed by a psychiatrist.

Also, I don't see other personality disorders within satanist community. One might expect antisocial personality disorder, but it does not seem to be the case.

You see, people with SPD "choose" to withdraw too. It's their "choice".

And again, I've never said that most satanists have it. SPD is pretty rare. But even if 10% of satanists have it, it would be much more prevalent than within the general population.

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#56583 - 07/06/11 09:50 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
I'm done giving you the opportunity to at least show justification as to why you take an "educated guess" the way you have about Satanists and then all you do is blither. I'll make this quite simple for you.....

Your statement..."But even if 10% of satanists have it, it would be much more prevalent than within the general population." is not an educated guess by any stretch. The highlighted word proves that BUT I'll help you out a bit further.

Here's something to get your teeth around that are facts....
http://www.athealth.com/Practitioner/mentalhealthstats.html
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147887/Americans-Continue-Believe-God.aspx

The GP has many more "issues" than most Satanists I know. \:D
_________________________
If only just for today.....

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#56606 - 07/07/11 11:18 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
I never said that I know the exact percentage of satanists that have SPD. I'm only saying that it would be more than within the general public. That's all.

Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions, especially wrong conclusions and then being defensive about them?

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#56621 - 07/07/11 09:38 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: assault_ninja
I never said that I know the exact percentage of satanists that have SPD. I'm only saying that it would be more than within the general public. That's all.

Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions, especially wrong conclusions and then being defensive about them?


You made a statement, and I've repeatedly tried to get you to answer questions to figure out how you came to your "educated guess" to no avail. Now you're stating you don't know the percentage but that SPD would be higher in Satanists than the GP? Why do you think that is? Because you know some Satanists and 1 is diagnosed with it so you apply that reasoning to all Satanists?

Never mind, it's not like you're going to give a straight answer anyways. And it's not like you've given tangible reasoning to anything else.
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If only just for today.....

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#56645 - 07/08/11 04:03 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
Because I know some Satanists, I'm sure that a couple of them have it, a few more may have it, and in one case it is confirmed.

That's the thing with SPD, it's rarely confirmed clinically — people with it just don't go to psychiatrists.

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#56647 - 07/09/11 03:40 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Daafje666 Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 73
Loc: The Netherlands
Come on man, Nyte is repeatingly asking you a simple question and you just keep evading and bouncing around it.

Why can't you just admit that you made a mistake bringing up your 'educated guess' which you can't back up since it is based on your own ideas rather than real statistics and facts?
_________________________
That's why.

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#56648 - 07/09/11 06:46 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Daafje666]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
Do you know the difference between a guess and a confirmed theory?
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#56651 - 07/09/11 10:38 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
If a theory was confirmed and proved true, it wouldn't be a theory anymore.

A guess and/or a theory, the respect given either is based upon any research done in regards to such ideas.

If you haven't done any true research, and are just postulating bs based on your own ideas, just fucking admit it, and move along.

"Because I know some Satanists, I'm sure that a couple of them have it, a few more may have it, and in one case it is confirmed."

Hmm, so this can be applied to anything?
Cocks, kids, tattoos, virgins on altars, dead cats swinging from chandlers, bats in the belltowers, and dead cars sitting on bricks?

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56654 - 07/09/11 02:22 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
According to you my guess or whatever you'd call it, would NEVER be a theory. Because it's truth status can be either inconclusive or conclusive. If it's inconclusive it's BS or if it's conclusive it's not a theory. That's a really weird understanding of what a theory is.

Yes, this kind of thinking can be applied to anything. It's called induction. And yes, I'm aware of possible problems with it.

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#56659 - 07/09/11 04:16 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Daafje666 Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 73
Loc: The Netherlands
This sounds to me like: 'You said it, you believe it and that settles it'

As a matter of fact I DO know the difference between a guess and a confirmed theory. But I would never post a theory here unless it's for constructive reasons and I have really done some research to back up my theory.

Morgan beat me to it saying you haven't done any research at all to back up your so called
guess-theory-induction-whatever you want to call it.
And yet again, you don't answer the question Morgan asks you but start rattling about what the difference between a guess and a theory is according to you instead.

We have a saying in The Netherlands: (literally translated): A cat pushed into a corner makes strange jumps.
_________________________
That's why.

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#56664 - 07/09/11 05:29 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Daafje666]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
If you know the difference, how would you explain your previous post?

The only research to be done here is a proper study. It's also rather hard to set up, but still possible. Maybe someday I'll do it, if nobody does before me...

I'm not asking anybody to believe me until there is a study, but I think that this subject is important enough, so people within the satanist community should be at least aware of such possible connection, even though it's not conclusively proven yet.

You should not believe me, if you don't have the proper knowledge of both subjects and see the connection yourself, but some people here are too dismissive, IMO. As if their egos somehow got harmed by my humble theory. I think that's what LaVey called counterproductive pride.

P.S. Induction is in no way a synonym to guess\theory. Induction is how somebody comes up with a theory. The other way is deduction.

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#56676 - 07/09/11 09:49 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
And, you are stating this because you know how many Satanists, 3, 5, 7, or 9? How many in real life?

"The only research to be done here is a proper study. It's also rather hard to set up, but still possible. Maybe someday I'll do it, if nobody does before me..."

So basically, its just your opinion, based on a whim with no real data or research.

Its not an ego or pride thing, if you can't back your shit up, you will be called on it. No one here takes anything for granted. For something that you seemed so sure of, you lack any proof or research. Just a lot of hot air.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56678 - 07/10/11 12:58 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Morgan]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Thank you both, Morgan and Daafje. I was beginning to think I was the only one seeing Assult do his little dance.

Assult, if I used your reasoning with the GP, I could easily counter with a lot (more than your mere 10%) of those that claim to be Christian and have Schizophrenia because out of several Christians I know personally, 4 have Schizophrenia and 3 of those 4 are diagnosed. All 4 have extreme symptoms of SPD and obviously stand the better chance of having SPD, but haven't been diagnosed. I also know several more Christians that have been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and more with severe depression issues. All of these exhibit SPD symptoms.

If you had taken 2 seconds to look at the links I provided you with, you would have understood that your guess is not an "educated guess" at all. The GP (everyone to include Satanists) have some serious mood/mind shit going on with everyone and anyone being medicated for these issues and it has nothing to do with them being from a select group, like Satanism. Perhaps you should go look at the links now?

When you do your little survey, you better know your stats on the GP as well, since you seem to have this need to make the comparison that way. Just make sure you get your numbers straight, because someone WILL call you on them.
_________________________
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#56684 - 07/10/11 06:07 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
Pull The Plug Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 2
I think I'm a psychic vampire. I'm working on it though.

Satanism does help.

I seem to enjoy others' suffering. I have found, after observing my own actions and being more conscious of a being (read: The Power of Now, by Eckart Tolle - I don't support his beliefs 100% but it helped me a lot in my everyday life), that I seem to (used to?) make it a point of all social interaction to hurt the other as much as possible.

Why is this? It must be some malfunction in my brain. Most likely, though, I think its how I was brought up. My father is the same way. I hate the thought of turning into him.

Anyway, I'll leave you to your debate or whatever, I just read the first post and figured I should give my .02

If anybody has any suggested reading or any other support that would be great. Therapist would be good, unfortunately I doubt I could afford one.

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#56685 - 07/10/11 06:15 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
And here we go again...

Whatever problems the general public has is besides the point here. That would not affect the connection of SPD with Satanism in any way. Are you going to bring that up again?

 Quote:
The GP (everyone to include Satanists) have some serious mood/mind shit going on with everyone and anyone being medicated for these issues and it has nothing to do with them being from a select group, like Satanism.

You don't have any evidence to say that. Any kind of identifiable group may have specific mental health differences from the general public.

Also, just so you know, SPD is mutually exclusive with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. That's why your friends were not diagnosed with it.

Morgan: Call me out on what? On the fact that there was no study on it yet? Well, that's pretty easy — I said this myself on the page one of this thread. Or me being sure in my own theory, until it's proven wrong? Don't see anything wrong with that.

As to your question, how many satanists I know... It's about 10 real-life and some more online.

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#56687 - 07/10/11 11:47 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Assult, you seem to have forgotten why this conversation got started in the first place and why I have been questioning you all along. Let me refresh your memory and quote you directly, "On the other hand I'm pretty sure that there are more satanists with schizoid personality disorder, than within general public."

Those are your words and the very reason I questioned you in the first place. You make a general statement, then you damn well better be able to back it up with more than "I know....". You're not playing with the GP anymore, but a group of people that understand the fine lines drawn on many levels. So yes....here YOU go again. Next time think about how you word things if you don't want someone to call you on them.

BTW...this statement, "You don't have any evidence to say that. Any kind of identifiable group may have specific mental health differences from the general public." is comical at best coming from you of all people after your performance here in this thread.
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#56747 - 07/12/11 11:57 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
Sanfilippoj Offline
lurker


Registered: 07/12/11
Posts: 1
Well i just found this site googling satanic views on bi polar disorder and had to reply first off i know my grammar is not the best i am going to college now to work on this so i apologize a head of time second off i know this form isn't talking about bi polar however i do have a life experience that i feel could answer the original post miss may posted back in 2009 if something like this was posted earlier i am just here to share... end disclaimer

iv been bi polar 1 all my life which got out of hand at age 10 i would have rages and say things and break things not really meaning too i would also have periods of being hypertensives and trouble sleeping growing up in a baptist family my father and step mother saw this as well the devils work so they took me to church and i got involved for a while they had me scared i was possessed and i blamed everything on well the devil and bad medication that was me until i was 14 and because of my rapid mood swing lost my first love before hand i prayed and prayed make it go away when i lost her i was no longer angry at the devil and unfortunately i wasn't angry at myself either no now i was even more foolish and was angry at god so i stopped praying stopped going to church and stopped my medication as i grew older with puburity my condition worstened until i was about 17 in jail on a domestic battery charge from fighting with my dad did 8hrs in holding cell then went straight to school talking to my English teacher about it concerned he asked me if i wanted to better my life i told him yes and out of his desk he pulled out the Satanic Bible he told me he wasn't pushing religion on me in anyway and to read the book like i would a self improvement book and he promised me i wouldn't be parsing the devil under a full moon so i read the book when i got home in one setting the effect the Satanic Bible had on my life was amazing it taught me what i was doing wrong all that time i spent pointing my finger at satan i should have been talking a look in the mirror the Satanic Bible taught me to take responsibility for my actions sence then iv gotton my ged held 2 jobs at once had my own place im 20 and fully indepent and now that i have medical insurance again seeking treatment for my relapsing bipolar (however handing it alot better and more maturely thanks to lavey ;\) ) iv never taken it to an extream and was never active on any forms or groups until now by the advice of my wise grandmother told me if Satanism helped you coped then then now's the time to get involved with it on a deeper level to overcome it so in closing the Satanic Bible made me a better person today rather then the out of control person i was yesterday feel free to make any comments to this feel free to ask me anything and i hope this gives helps for the original topic of how would the Satanic Bible affect a mentally ill person and going a little off topic i would also like to say iv battled a drug addiction and have been sober for over a yr not because i gave myself over to a higher power but because i took myself away from a higher power

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#56798 - 07/14/11 02:13 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino


If that doesn't work, [also privately] ask the mediation of someone up the totem pole.

(2) You don't like someone's posts, just put him/her on "ignore"
... just my


What is this the Army General? Do we all follow the chain of command now? And where are our stress cards?


Edited by blackzach (07/14/11 02:25 AM)
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#56823 - 07/14/11 02:40 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Sanfilippoj]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Sanfilippoj, trying to make sense of your post could make anyone go crazy. A few pieces of advice:

1. Grammer (punctuation, capitalization, spelling) is a good thing.
2. Spacing your ideas into small bite-sized chunks called paragraphs? Also good.
3. Browse the forum for a bit, and you'll see how following 1 and 2 make things so much better for the reader.

A few more posts like the last one and you'll certainly get banned. It seems like you have something meaningful to say, but it won't matter if you don't say it properly. Oh yeah, welcome to the forum.
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#56910 - 07/15/11 04:52 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Nyte]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
I've never said that I know exactly how many more. I'm sure that there is a connection, but details of it are yet to be studied.

Well you're asking for evidence of something you find doubtful, why I can't? Let's see if you do better than me.

2Sanfilippoj: Nice to see somebody who were really helped by Satanism.

On a related note, another interesting area of research concerning Satanism would be tracking changes to the lives of people who were introduced to it. May lead to interesting conclusions...

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#56913 - 07/15/11 06:19 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: assault_ninja]
Daafje666 Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 73
Loc: The Netherlands
 Quote:
I've never said that I know exactly how many more. I'm sure that there is a connection, but details of it are yet to be studied.

Well, this sounds a lot more balanced.

 Quote:
Well you're asking for evidence of something you find doubtful, why I can't? Let's see if you do better than me.

Remember you were the one making a statement without any evidence. But if anyone on this forum comes up with statements\guesses\whatever without evidence in the future, you should call them on it.

But really no hostility intended, I hope you will do your study someday. I'm really curious of the outcome, will you let me know? ;\)
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#58158 - 08/13/11 02:04 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Diavolo]
RobertDonohue Offline
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 19
Loc: NY USA
I feel no religion should be used to cure or aid mental illness. That could prove to be very dangerous. a person in the wrong frame of mind may get overzealous
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#58172 - 08/13/11 05:11 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: RobertDonohue]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Jesuitical Judeo-Christian values deny natural human functioning, this repression creates an environment for unhealthy psychology to develop, unseen.

Consider some people are beyond such a morality and still thinking good and evil morality is an absolute abounds reality. They will consider themselves a “evil person” in a negative context even setting their aims at lowly and despicable compromises. they may dislike this about themselves in some way, whilst still their nature would cause them to be beyond such a morality, hence carrying negative feelings and negative connotations about being isolated in their “different” psychology in the company of others.

People with mental health illness often have habits such as drugs, smoking, drinking alcohol and obesity, whilst a certain personality type also labelled a “disorder” believes in taking care of themselves, health, exercise etc. whilst the only “disorder” comes to those who reek like prey and practically beg to be exploited; the dog like men who let themselves be abused.

“Oh my goodness! That's evil just for thinking like that and so we want to destroy you!” Hence proving my point.

Overzealous? That's a naysaying word which sets a fictional line between fictional absolutes. A Satanist does not set limits to experience nor does he submit to anyone or anything.

Nonserviam seems to be misinterpreted as being oneself only insofar as it is acceptable. Somewhere along the lines, some “Satanists” seem to think they ought to follow the Jesuitical model of psychology.


Edited by Hegesias (08/13/11 05:39 PM)
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#58184 - 08/13/11 11:27 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Hegesias]
a. don Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
Satanism isn't a magical pill that's going to solve the world's problems and each and every person in it. And it shouldn't be. Just imagine an army of satanists with this mentality, preaching that the path of salvation and the answer to one's problems is through TSB: As soon as you realize, Satanism would be on par to christian-like proselytization. The prospect of that makes me shudder.

However, if you find inspiration or a rational guideline in TSB, that is totally different. But if you are looking for an emotional substitute for emotional problems, then you haven't really solved the underlying cause(s) of such. A rational inclination to the LHP (or to anything for that matter) is not only preferable, but a lot more healthy.

Let the professionals (psychologists and psychiatrists) do the job, which only consists of pointing out what you need to do (although psychiatrists may find it in your interest to prescribe drugs depending on the gravity of the problem).





Edited by a. don (08/13/11 11:28 PM)

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#58202 - 08/15/11 02:54 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: RobertDonohue]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
I feel no religion should be used to cure or aid mental illness. That could prove to be very dangerous. a person in the wrong frame of mind may get overzealous


Religion is a form of mental illness, albeit a voluntary* one but a form of mental illness none-the-less. Anyone who believes in any god(s) or devil(s) or any other form of childish bullshit is automatically in the wrong frame of mind. Any believer can easily turn into a fanatic (overzealous) with very little provocation, which makes religious belief inherently dangerous.

* "Voluntary" meaning the willful acceptance, or retention of, religious belief; despite, or without regard to, conflicting evidence.
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#58211 - 08/15/11 11:12 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I conjecture that because the model of thinking of westerners is based upon religious values and the illusions abounds those values amount to the greater web of negative connotations in peoples psychology.

I would venture to argue that religion is the “essence” of mental illness which emerges in many forms.

The cognitive dissonance abounds natural drives and naysaying in the mind creating confusion as to what is “real”.

All manner of schizophrenic symptoms and narcissism is in the bible, hallucinations and magical thinking abounds.


Edited by Hegesias (08/15/11 11:15 AM)
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#58250 - 08/16/11 01:18 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Hegesias]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
I don't care much about psychiatry, because sometimes I think it's lucrative business and other form of control. In Western Europe percentage of people with different psychiatric disorders are many times higher as in Latvia, where we don't have so good medical care and I found similarities with doctors business...

Maybe it's only my opinion, but I think, that healthy person is lost client for doctors.
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#58510 - 08/23/11 06:52 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Latvian]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
ASPD behaviours are selectively predicated on a lack of affective empathy in a certain tone of naysaying, academically demonised by Judeo-Christian morality cloaked in a white laboratory coat. This is withholding of an important affirmation by means of ambiguity.

What does this mean?

“Affective empathy” and “cognitive empathy” are not distinguished but merely quoted as “empathy” in association with the word “lacking” and other emotive word combinations that stand out in among dead words by design, slogans such as “emotional poverty” in place of emotional control and understanding.

Said individuals propensity and its emergence, the all pervasive impulse being able to run its course in a society of mediocrity without negatively affecting the individual is dependent on intelligence. Obviously low intelligence ASPD's will be despicably tactless opportunists and get caught for their peasantry crimes.

Seeking stimulation is both normative and rational for highly adaptive intelligentsia. No amount of “therapy” can reverse evolution.
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#58542 - 08/24/11 03:36 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Hegesias]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
Judeo-Christian morality cloaked in a white laboratory coat
Very good point! I think you are right!

There is a lot of hypocrisy - sometimes doctors can have more disorders than their patients, but they just know – it’s normal and there I always remember first satanic statement about stupidity and it is so with these disorders, if you are stupid and go to them, when you're in bad mood, you can be put on drugs. It is doctors business… They need patients.

It's similar with psychological tests - when you do in good mood, you can have perfect scores, but when you're depressed - you find out - you have some disorder.
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#65733 - 03/27/12 03:28 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Hegesias]
Miss May Offline
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Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 66
Loc: sebastopol, CA
Those who have a mental illness are truly more aware of certain aspects of the world than normal people. Some of the most recognized scientists, writers, and artists are well known for their psychopath tendencies. If someone understands their emotions and pays attention to them enough then their intention should still be known even if it is lost in times of chaos. Therefore psychic vampires are not necessarily people with psychological problems.
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#65809 - 03/30/12 11:48 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
wagthedog Offline
member


Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 140
The term mental illness has a haphazard way of being interpreted. Something is only a mental illness if it has a direct and tangible correlation to upsetting your life. OCD might be a good one if you use that force to be dedicated to your work and station in life and say exercise as some people do by definition you do not have a mental illness. If you had OCD and your pattern of behavior impeded your work, social relations and health then it certainly would be classified as such.
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#65814 - 03/31/12 05:06 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
Frumious Offline
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Registered: 03/13/12
Posts: 102
Loc: New Jersey
Psychotherapy might as well be deemed a religious practice - and when I say that, I am not being derogatory. I am not disparaging it. Quite the contrary. My comment is made in the context of the only religion I could ever claim, which is I-Theism. Psychotherapy done right is the art and science of helping someone probe, confront, and terminate self-deception, so as to expand the domain of self-awareness, which will always be the desideratum of any I-Theistic practice.
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#76465 - 05/19/13 07:41 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Miss May
i honestly believe that anyone suffering from this disorder would find the Satanic Bible extremely useful in their recovery, if they were open to the idea of it. I would greatly appreciate any input from my fellow satanists this subject. Do any of you believe this philosophy to hold water.....


Why do you believe this? In my personal observation and experience, people with BPD are already reading TSB and run amok in the world, in fact you can find them on most Social Networks. Some are medicated. Some are on-again/off-again with their medication. They have a twisted perception of the world, and have no real interest or ability in managing themselves. They seem to have a vested interest in trying to manage everyone else and blame everyone else for their problems.


See: Updates to the DSM-V and BPD

Most people that suffer BPD are impaired, the last thing you want to throw more fuel on the fire by pushing reading material on them that just over-complicate their sense of self. It's already in turmoil.

I've been following the Jodi-Arias case. (3) Clinicians tested her using Diagnostic tools, and only 1 out of 3 came up with a real prognosis using raw data and objective evaluation methods. She was diagnosed with BPD. Based on her patterns of provable behaviors, I'd say that's accurate and she carried out a poorly planned murder. Would I want her armed with the TSB? Perhaps, if only to carry out a better exit plan, she completely botched the clean-up and covering her tracks. Instead she chose to use wiles to try to fool the public into believing she was a battered person and suffered from PTSD. Had she not had BPD, she may have gotten away with it. Her patterns of behaviors is what found her guilty.
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#85906 - 03/21/14 02:41 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
HERE is a cute cartoon which offers an overview of BPD.

Brain Imaging of BPD.



See also: Article

 Quote:
The findings, by Harold W. Koenigsberg, MD, professor of psychiatry at Mount Sinai School of Medicine suggest individuals with BPD are unable activate neurological networks that would help to control feelings.

The research will be published in the journal Biological Psychiatry.

Using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI), researchers viewed how the brains of people with BPD reacted to social and emotional stimuli.

Koenigsberg found that when people with BPD attempted to control and reduce their reactions to disturbing emotional scenes, the anterior cingulate cortex and intraparetical sulci areas of the brain that are active in healthy people under the same conditions remained inactive in the BPD patients.

“This research shows that BPD patients are not able to use those parts of the brain that healthy people use to help regulate their emotions,” said Dr. Koenigsberg.


Once Jodi Arias was diagnosed, having watched all the testimony, there didn't appear to be a defense prepared from the scientific aspect of what regulated her actions. She was found guilty because she was capable of pre-planning and concocting a narrative (Domestic Abuse) as well as her initial denials of having killed her estranged boyfriend.

Still, it strikes me as odd, that she would be referred to the prison system vs. a medical facility, if the BPD diagnosis is being accepted by the State of AZ as legit.
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#85936 - 03/22/14 09:29 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Miss May]
Azerelus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/03/14
Posts: 15
Loc: California, USA,
 Originally Posted By: Miss May
In satanism, stability is sought after and i honestly believe that anyone suffering from this disorder would find the Satanic Bible extremely useful in their recovery, if they were open to the idea of it. I would greatly appreciate any input from my fellow satanists this subject. Do any of you believe this philosophy to hold water.....


Considering how every other holy book ever written was badly misinterpreted and used as a weapon or a 'good reason' for people to do some pretty crazy crap.... I think in the wrong hands the Satanic Bible could become a powerful weapon.

Look at how badly people take 'Do as thou Wilt' and turn it into a reason to pursue their freak show desires without understanding the responsibility and potential consequences implied by this simple 'law'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying every person with this condition will leap to the wrong extreme... but one of the underlying symptoms of this disorder is a tendency to go to extremes. Seems like a set up for a really bad time exists.

I think some of the tenants of the Satanic Bible would be helpful. I even think that some of the tenants of the christian bible would also be helpful - but there needs to be guidance, structure and a full ability to read and understand the context and what is really being said and application with a rational mind.


The Satanic Bible must be read with a rational mind, and reasoning applied to its words. When that is impossible for the reader (or there is a general lack of willingness) we end up with people abusing the word, and using it to justify all manner of deeds which I guess the word 'evil' would sum up nicely.

The first question should be is if the individual is capable (willing and able are two different things) to approach the Book with a rational mind? Can they apply real reason, or does their disorder end up leading their rational mind astray?


People don't actually recover from these sorts of disorders. They can learn tools to make their life easier, tools to cope with the drives that lead to things like cutting... But 'recover' not really - perpetually recovery (like the addict who takes it one day at a time to keep from using) is possible.

So yes some of the Satanic Teachings can indeed be applied as tools on the road of recovery. Which teachings are tools and which are road blocks and potential landmines in recovery? That would depend on the individual and how their symptoms present and how the disorder affects them. Not everyone with BPD presents the exact same symptoms.

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#85950 - 03/23/14 12:30 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Azerelus]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
The Satanic Bible must be read with a rational mind, and reasoning applied to its words. When that is impossible for the reader (or there is a general lack of willingness) we end up with people abusing the word, and using it to justify all manner of deeds which I guess the word 'evil' would sum up nicely.


Perhaps you might cite an example of this evil you speak of.

 Quote:
People don't actually recover from these sorts of disorders. They can learn tools to make their life easier, tools to cope with the drives that lead to things like cutting... But 'recover' not really - perpetually recovery (like the addict who takes it one day at a time to keep from using) is possible.


The mind can trigger some rather interesting neurological responses. Such as the case, with the brain scan data I shared.

 Quote:
reduced activity in a frontal area of the brain, called the subgenual anterior cingulate


Most of the scientific reporting demonstrates that behavior therapy reaps the most effective results. In other words, patients are trained how to regulate their own emotions, which triggers the subgenual anterior cingulate. When prescription medications are added to the treatment plan, these are usually to manage other symptoms vs. the BPD itself. In some cases, it can even exacerbate matters.

So I think the question to ask is: Can a person recover from their own behavior?
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#85952 - 03/23/14 01:04 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Azerelus

The Satanic Bible must be read with a rational mind, and reasoning applied to its words.

Reasoning filtered through some sort of abrahamic morality is not rational.
As shown here:
 Quote:

their freak show desires

meaning of course, out of step with what you find to be 'acceptable'
And here:
 Quote:

we end up with people abusing the word, and using it to justify all manner of deeds which I guess the word 'evil' would sum up nicely.

What is summed up as 'evil' is rooted in morality, which is completely arbitrary.

 Quote:

Not everyone with BPD presents the exact same symptoms.

Of course not, because there is no actual science involved.
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#85954 - 03/23/14 01:46 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Azerelus]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Ya know what I like to do? Read the DSM V (I think they're on a slightly newer edition by now, but V is what I grew up with and it's the one sitting on my shelf) and just read through and go "hmm I have that! \:\) this totally sums me up! oh and that one describes this person I work with"

It's like astrology - I dare anyone to flip through it and come up empty with at least one condition that does not describe them.

I can only imagine what type of hollow and empty shell of a person would have to be in order to be completely sane by the DSM's definition.

While some of these conditions are quite real and very frightening, a good majority of them are just putting a label on what I'd consider mere "quirks" and suffixing the word "disorder" to it.

Borderline personality "disorder" is a prime example.

Borderline to "what" exactly? Since when was feeling things, like, a disorder at all? Impulsiveness is a bad thing? Yeah, fuck us for not being potatoes. \:\/

The definition of borderline personality describes basically every single interesting person I've ever met - including myself.

I'm not so apt to call it a "disorder" though. Especially when implicitly the only "sane" people out there must have all the personality of a slab of cheese.


Edited by antikarmatomic (03/23/14 01:46 PM)
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#85956 - 03/23/14 03:06 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: antikarmatomic]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Ya, that. ^^

It doesn't take a lot of digging to see the big pharm game.

Luckily for the profiteers in that industry, most don't look any deeper once something is designated as 'authority'. ;\)

Just shut up and take your pills!
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#85961 - 03/24/14 12:21 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Dan_Dread]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Precisely! However you are - whatever weird quirks you have there's a solution for that! We all know that basically every personality feature is a liability and a cause for concern.

Whoever you are we got pills to make it all better - you too can become a perfectly sane and apathetic drone... hell, your insurance covers it too! Win-win, no? Who'd want to go through life, ya know, thinking and feeling stuff - too much effort.

Just smile and watch TV. ;\)
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#85967 - 03/24/14 10:19 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
Never mind how these 'conditions' are decided. I've shared this on the video forum but it seems suitable to add to this discussion:

THE DSM: Psychiatry's Deadliest Scam
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#85971 - 03/24/14 11:29 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
I have shared my opinion on what seems like "disorder of the week" bullshit. Every conceivable deviation from an arbitrarily defined "normal" - there's a pill for that.


For fun lets just list what is considered criteria for this disorder.

* Note only 3 must be present to qualify.

 Quote:
1.disturbances in and uncertainty about self-image, aims, and internal preferences;
2.liability to become involved in intense and unstable relationships, often leading to emotional crisis;
3.excessive efforts to avoid abandonment;
4.recurrent threats or acts of self-harm;
5.chronic feelings of emptiness.
6.demonstrates impulsive behavior


Basically every teenager and young adult that has ever existed has this disorder. You can transplant any disorder you like and the result will come out the same.

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#85973 - 03/24/14 11:40 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
More and more people are accepting this quackery as a hard-science, it boggles the mind! heh
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#100363 - 06/04/15 10:36 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
MReynolds Offline
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member


Registered: 04/01/15
Posts: 282
Hey! I have/had this "disorder". It is a 'hard-science' damn it, it just is, because.. *sulks* I've experienced it.

No, but seriously, I'm 32 years-old now, and I was diagnosed with this "disorder" at the age of 21. I had to do CBT/DBT (Cognitive/Dialectic Behavioral Therapy) groups on several occasions to make the symptoms of this particular "disorder" a near non-issue today. Glad I did, because it was/is a bitch (there are still minor relapses).

I disagree that it's a mental-illness. I don't equate personality disorders with mental-illnesses as there's no evidence that there's a chemical imbalance of the brain as there is with depression, manic-depression, schizophrenia, and schizo-affective disorder. Also, medications have little-to-no effect on combating symptoms presented from personality disorders.

Intensive psycho-therapy, and CBT/DBT work on the other hand can, and will improve the clients functioning greatly if the patient applies themselves, as I had done, and continue to do so.



Edited by MReynolds (06/04/15 10:43 PM)
Edit Reason: WARNING Pyschic-Vampyre WARNING lmfao :)
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#100371 - 06/05/15 12:44 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: MReynolds]
Satanic Princess Offline
member


Registered: 05/04/15
Posts: 204
Loc: New Zealand
 Originally Posted By: MReynolds

I disagree that it's a mental-illness. I don't equate personality disorders with mental-illnesses as there's no evidence that there's a chemical imbalance of the brain as there is with depression, manic-depression, schizophrenia, and schizo-affective disorder. Also, medications have little-to-no effect on combating symptoms presented from personality disorders.


I also disagree that its a mental illness. I dated someone once with BPD when I went through my bi-phase kind of thing; and she was nearly impossible. She constantly sooked, was a major psychic vampire and got upset if I talked to anyone else other than her (this included my friend dying of cancer and a friend with very severe psychatric illness who was in and out of a mental hospital).
It got to the point after she'd slept with some of my friends (the dumb slut) and then blamed me for being raped and compared it to her cheating! She was on her ass quick!
She was also constantly complaining about how awful it was for her and how I didn't understand. When I have serious mental health issues!
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#100372 - 06/05/15 12:55 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: CanisMachina42]
XiaoGui17 Offline
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We don't necessarily need to pathologize it, but it's useful to be able to recognize certain types of people. Borderline is a definite type that does exist. There's a distinction between going through an angsty phase as a teen/ young adult who's still figuring out how to handle adult shit, stumbling here and there when faced with new and overwhelming emotions, and someone who is permanently stuck in the mindset of a 13 year old well into middle age.

I'll admit the criteria are too vague; actually looking at concrete examples and case studies sets apart the "everyone has weak moments" from the "this bitch is fucking crazy."

For instance:

(1) If a significant other decides to break up with you, what do you do?

(a) Shrug it off and move on with your life
(b) Cry profusely, get blackout drunk, and eat a fuck-ton of junk food while moping alone in your apartment for a month
(c) Threaten to kill yourself, then call the cops and accuse them of beating you

A is clearly the most rational reaction, perhaps exceptionally so. B is clearly not the most constructive approach, but it's understandable and well within the range of healthy or normal people's coping processes. C is beyond the limits of reasonable conduct, and indicates quite clearly that any self-respecting person should avoid this nut like the plague.

Dan Savage said we don't have to be flawless to date, but we do have to be in "good working order." B is flawed, but in good working order. It's like a car that has a sticky door, or a window that doesn't roll down quite right. It still does what a car needs to do despite some minor flaws. C is needs some serious work before it's safe to get behind the wheel, if it isn't fucking totaled.
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#100375 - 06/05/15 02:23 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: XiaoGui17]
Satanic Princess Offline
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Ugh, yeah. This girl was a C case. She would threaten to kill herself and then send me pictures of her arms all sliced and cut up. Me; being the lovely, caring Christian girl I was at the time, would come running to her rescue. At 2am (when I had to be up for school at 5AM), I would be talking to her and trying to calm her.

Once I suggested that we end it, she threatened to break into my house "and give me something to worry about".

I'm fine with helping people through rough patches, my friend who is mentally ill I would stay up with her to make sure she was OK quite often. She would spin out and hallucinate (both audibly and visually) and get herself into a state. I needed to help her, and I expected nothing back except for our friendship. And when I go into a bad place, now I can rely on her being there for me.

However the psycho girl, I was always there for her, but she was never there for me. So in the end, I left her for good. And all she was after was sex; and personally I would rather a relationship as well! I think most people would.

I'm now in a relationship with a beautiful and gorgeous man, inside and out; who treats me right and is there for me, and me for him. So it all worked out in the end.

It's important to also decipher between BPD and other personality issues and just a simple drama queen with attachment issues. And they can end up making psychic vampires to the extreme! We all psychic vampire ourselves occasionally, but some people could make it an art-form with their manipulation!
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#100379 - 06/05/15 11:08 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: MReynolds]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MR
Intensive psycho-therapy, and CBT/DBT work on the other hand can, and will improve the clients functioning greatly if the patient applies themselves, as I had done, and continue to do so.


Mental re-conditioning and a cocktail of drugs usually go hand and hand. Even with intense 'therapy', the foundation is cracked. All it takes is the right triggers and you're back to square one.

You can fix a sticky door and window that won't roll up but something is out of whack in the manufacturing process that won't ever be quite right.

I don't understand serial-dating, let alone those people that get married after only one year. I'd say it takes a good 2+ years for the facade to come down before you can even begin to really 'know' a person. It's said that Love is a temporary madness because it alters your perception of the way things are. It also accounts for ignoring all those little red flags screaming to be noticed.

Besides, isn't 'therapy' sought when the patient is distressed? Most people don't even know they are in distress. Anything can be normalized.
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#100382 - 06/05/15 11:23 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
Satanic Princess Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3

I don't understand serial-dating, let alone those people that get married after only one year. I'd say it takes a good 2+ years for the facade to come down before you can even begin to really 'know' a person. It's said that Love is a temporary madness because it alters your perception of the way things are. It also accounts for ignoring all those little red flags screaming to be noticed.

Besides, isn't 'therapy' sought when the patient is distressed? Most people don't even know they are in distress. Anything can be normalized.


That's true; what was it? It takes 2-4 years before you actually know someone? I'd believe that.

Sometimes patients don't even seek out their own therapy. I didn't. I was hallucinating and had very little perception of where reality ended. It's a really scary place to be. I ended up being taken to see a psychologist by my English teacher in school (I was 16 at the time) during school hours because she was that concerned and worried.

As far as serial dating goes; hmmm, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, is it jumping around from relationship to relationship?
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#100384 - 06/05/15 11:28 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: Satanic Princess]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SP
I didn't. I was hallucinating and had very little perception of where reality ended.


Having been in the thralls of the Mental-Health system, any insights you care to offer as to the cause? Why do you think some people break, while others can endure?

 Originally Posted By: SP
As far as serial dating goes; hmmm, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, is it jumping around from relationship to relationship?


Basically, if you even want to call it that. The sort that just can't bear to be alone. On their own.
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#100386 - 06/05/15 12:44 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
Satanic Princess Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: SP
I didn't. I was hallucinating and had very little perception of where reality ended.


Having been in the thralls of the Mental-Health system, any insights you care to offer as to the cause? Why do you think some people break, while others can endure?

 Originally Posted By: SP
As far as serial dating goes; hmmm, I'm not sure exactly what you mean, is it jumping around from relationship to relationship?


Basically, if you even want to call it that. The sort that just can't bear to be alone. On their own.



Yeah, no one is particulary sure as to what it is; a combination of ADHD and Bi-polar is the most likely answer apparently though. I am seeing a psychatrist in the next few weeks to actually get an official diagnosis/es.

Why do some people make it and others don't? Hmmm. I think it comes down to a lot of factors. I know I have come very close to suicide with my condition/s; luckily I didn't. I've been lucky to have a good family and the most amazing friends I could ask for; including my best friend, who is almost like my big brother, who is a bit like a guardian. I can always rely on him.
I am personally, generally a very social person; so when people don't hear from me in a certain amount of time, alarm bells go off for them so to speak.
Plus, when I slip into my low periods, I become apathetic to the point where I sleep up to 16-18 hours a day, and barely do anything for the rest of the time.
I've always considered myself a strong person. But I don't think that comes in to it as much as people might think. Enduring isn't fun. And especially if something is going to be permanent/life long, severe and/or has a lot of stigma attached to it even more so than most other mental health conditions (like Bi-polar or Schizophrenia).
I think that people see that their lives will never be "normal" again and they just give up. They stop fighting.
Plus, of course there are varying degrees of severity and an individual's outside life can and does make all the difference.

As for serial daters; Ive dated them, and they are full on and personally drive me mad.
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#100407 - 06/06/15 09:18 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
MReynolds Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3


Mental re-conditioning and a cocktail of drugs usually go hand and hand. Even with intense 'therapy', the foundation is cracked. All it takes is the right triggers and you're back to square one.


There really is no 'cocktail of drugs' for personality disorders, borderline, or otherwise. I disagree that the 'right trigger' takes one back to square-one, if they've done the work, for if they have.. they've learned to respond to vs reacting from such 'triggers'.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3

You can fix a sticky door and window that won't roll up but something is out of whack in the manufacturing process that won't ever be quite right.


I like this analogy as it makes perfect sense, but we aren't 'sticky doors', and 'windows'. Sure, there will always be some 'kinks', but 'broken' doesn't always remain 'broken'. Not in my case anyhow, and not in the cases of many others.
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

I don't understand serial-dating, let alone those people that get married after only one year. I'd say it takes a good 2+ years for the facade to come down before you can even begin to really 'know' a person. It's said that Love is a temporary madness because it alters your perception of the way things are. It also accounts for ignoring all those little red flags screaming to be noticed.

There's a lot more to borderline personality disorder than stormy inter-personal relationships, although that does seem to be the hallmark of the "disorder". I myself was good friends with my man from 2004 until 2005 before he, and I decided to take the plunge. He, and I have been together ever since. Lots of ups, and downs, sure, but that's no different than anyone else. I'm in complete agreement here. The attention-seeking aspects of the "disorder" are unreal however. They're there to fill in tension gaps, a negative coping mechanism to forestall abandonment. Borderline patients have horrid Daddy, Mommy, and family issues, myself included. I'll give you that.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3

Besides, isn't 'therapy' sought when the patient is distressed? Most people don't even know they are in distress. Anything can be normalized.

Yes, therapy is sought when the patient is distressed, or it is court-ordered when it is mandated by a judge in order to protect the actor, and/or those around him/her. In my case, it was of my own free-will, as I wanted to live a much healthier, and happier life. I wanted to overcome, and for the most part, I have.


Edited by MReynolds (06/06/15 09:24 AM)
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#101044 - 06/24/15 04:27 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: MReynolds]
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Diagnosis of any kind (mental or otherwise) is not the clear binary thing. Diagnosis is meant to be a tool of classification to aid in treatment.

The fact is diagnosis is an arbitrary line we draw to help document and treat. Whether we consider borderline personality a disorder or not is not objective. All we know is the science. The brain is wired a little differently, there are patterns in people with brains wired that way, and certain treatments have made people more stable. We're creating order from a statistical chaos.

I can't find this interview isolated to link it but James Fallen is a neuroscientist that explained it perfectly. He is a self-diagnosed psycohpath with a lot to say on psych diagnosis. Look him up if interested.

Whether or not something is a "disorder" shouldn't be significant. We know that things are patterns. Make decisions on your patterns.

A lot of psychologists operate without using diagnosis. The only catch is you need a diagnosis if you need any medication.

Also, all this anti-DSM silliness in the thread is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the DSM is supposed to be used.

YES you can page through disorders and say these traits meet you. All of these things that describe patterns of behavior. Having the pattern is not having the disorder. It becomes a disorder when it a pattern of behavior is uncontrollable and is causing you major trouble in your life. How do you determine whether something has crossed that line? You just try your best, it's just not that black and white.

Yes, there are elements of big pharmaceuticals manipulating this for profit. (Lumping several possible disorders into one and defining them so vaguely anyone could be diagnosed like they did with ADHD and depression. They've been trying to change definitions to do the same with autism.) And yes there is major controversy and debate about a lot of the DSM. But a big scammy book of nonsense it is not.

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#101069 - 06/25/15 11:06 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: TV is God]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
Also, all this anti-DSM silliness in the thread is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how the DSM is supposed to be used.


For me, I was addressing how Mental Health Workers use it as a diagnostic tool. It accounts for how patients are diagnosed with disorders (often misdiagnosed then medicated).

Take for instance the (3) disorders that Jodi Arias was classified with during her trial. The third 'expert' was given more levity because of her 'expertise' and how the testing phase was managed.

 Quote:
It becomes a disorder when it a pattern of behavior is uncontrollable and is causing you major trouble in your life.



Hence the DSM is a diagnostic tool for aiding Mental Health Workers in treating patients suffering distress.

 Quote:
And yes there is major controversy and debate about a lot of the DSM. But a big scammy book of nonsense it is not.


The APA determines these disorders based on case-studies. 5 versions and conditions are constantly tweaked because this isn't a science by any means. These conditions are modified along with culture. Plenty of scientists have spoken against this field because of the way the mind is treated in the face of adversity (Religion, Sexuality, Acceptable Social Behavior).

 Originally Posted By: MR
Borderline patients have horrid Daddy, Mommy, and family issues, myself included. I'll give you that.


AKA Coping Skills. A person's pathology can be a case-study to follow patterns of events and reactions. Our society has created the ideal environment for setting people up to fail. Everything is excused and treated like a disease beyond your control. Short of some brain anomaly, your behavior is within your control.

I've always found it a strange phenomena that so many powerless people flock to the LHP as if it's the next fix. How can you be self-governing while at the same time existing in a state of powerlessness over your own thoughts and actions? What is really attained there, aside a bunch of excuses for having a weak conviction?

In my mind, it's man up or shut up.
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#101071 - 06/25/15 11:39 AM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
mountaingoat Offline
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I find Thomas Szasz's Commentary on this to be rather refreshing, particularly where the State reserves the right to revoke the rights of autonomy of an individual based on a psychological diagnosis, yet refuses to allow the individual to choose to address the situation on their own. It's the same systemic hypocrisy that allows someone to be institutionalized against their will, but also allows an individual to use a diagnosis as a loophole to avoid guilt in a criminal proceeding. The current tools of diagnosis are nothing more than a modern-day witch hunt to get "defective" people loaded up on drugs not of their choosing, and either "fix" them, or hide them from pleasant society.
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#101073 - 06/25/15 12:07 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: mountaingoat]
SIN3 Offline
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I'd say he's just as guilty of profiting from the field (I don't spite him for it) but I think he was a much needed wake-up call to the growing field of quacks.

I've always liked this quote:
 Quote:
“Guillotin made it easier for the condemned to die and Charcot [early champion of the disease model of mental illness] made it easier for the sufferer, then commonly called a malingerer, to be sick. It may be argued that when dealing with the hopeless and helpless, these are real accomplishments. Still I would maintain that Guillotin’s and Charcot’s interventions were not acts of liberation but were rather processes of narcotization and tranquilization.”


Jodi Aria's defense team was counting on the jury to take into consideration the viable scapegoat of "Mental Illness" and it may have worked. At least, saving her from the Death Penalty. It just seemed to me she was tired of his shit and served him up with a pointing reckoning. She most like basked in the pleasure of it. Society would deem her a monster rather than seeing it for what it really is.


Added to her Life Sentence, she was recently ordered to pay 30K for the distress she caused others. So, it's a highly profitable endeavor in civil cases too.

Holmes' Psychiatrist testified that she did have concerns but the same system prevented her from violating the privacy agreement. Shouldn't it then share in the responsibility, if it's to be used to excuse behavior?

 Quote:
Fenton faces a lawsuit accusing her of not doing enough to stop the attack.


It's not the system, it's the Shrink. That's how society deals with it, just another scapegoat.

 Quote:
Fenton's testimony helped explain how she handled Holmes and his thoughts of killing people. But it's unclear how it will play with jurors trying to assess his mental state at the time of the shooting.


Since he's submitted the insanity plea and even if the jury wants him to fry, I'm sure it will at least be considered as an explanation for his actions.

 Quote:
Freed from patient-client privilege by Holmes' insanity plea, Fenton's testimony in Holmes' death penalty trial marked her first public statements about him. Among other things, she described his behavior as anxious, hostile and bizarre. It was so worrisome that she took it upon herself to alert campus police but didn't find the evidence needed to hold someone against his will.


 Quote:
Defense attorneys say Holmes is schizophrenic and was in the grips of a psychotic episode when he carried out the attack on July 20, 2012. If the jury agrees, he'll be committed indefinitely to a mental hospital.


Just like Arias was saved from death, it's likely that Holmes may be too. A life in a different cage doesn't take much of a transition.

Since he fancied himself the Joker, maybe there's some internal laughter going on there, while he watches it all burn.

Calculated plan is calculated.


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#101077 - 06/25/15 12:39 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
mountaingoat Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I'd say he's just as guilty of profiting from the field...


Just by virtue of his long standing as a tenured professor of Psychiatry at SUNY Upstate in Syracuse, I would say that he solely profited from the field of conventional psychoanalysis and treatment. This however, I feel, gave him a unique perspective in the game to be able to mount these criticisms. I have no problem with hypocrisy, so long as the individual is sincere to both points.

 Quote:
...she described his behavior as anxious, hostile and bizarre.


Well, I think everyone on this forum might get the same notes in their file if they were analyzed "In their own environment." I think the real dividing line between intent of malice and mental "illness," is the level of self-awareness. That line is gray as hell, and frankly, it's a bitch to prove when someone is faking or sincere. Generally, someone with a good amount of intuition, good skills of observation, rudimentary education in psychoanalysis, and is objective enough to not begin the analysis with a preconceived outcome, can tell if the person is truly aware of the inappropriateness of his actions or thoughts, but as each individual has a slightly (or vastly) different yard stick for measuring this, it is fairly impossible to convince a court of your findings. An often-cited study from the early 1990's, http://psychology.jrank.org/pages/336/Insanity-Defense.html , states that less than 1% of defendants raise the insanity plea, and only about 25% of those who are found to be mentally incompetent are actually acquitted. So, we are looking at less than one fourth of one percent of all criminal cases where an accepted proof of insanity flies with the whole court: judge, jury, "expert" witnesses, and regrettably, public opinion.
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#101078 - 06/25/15 12:49 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: mountaingoat]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
I think the real dividing line between intent of malice and mental "illness," is the level of self-awareness.


What if 'insanity' is really just a moment of clarity? In the case of Jodi Arias, she was painted as a Narcissistic personalty with BPD, as if that explains why she offed the guy when his back was turned. Maybe she had just had enough of this guy fucking with her.

In the case of Holmes, he seems to have invoked his inner Joker to find a release. Wouldn't this imply a sense of self-awareness?

I think the sincerity is in the action, the faking comes in when you have to answer to an agency that places itself as an authority. If you recognize that this agency can over-power your will then you take steps, and make calculated moves to make the most of the situation. That too requires self-awareness.

Neither of these people seemed concerned with getting away free & clear, which speaks more to fear of consequence at that moment (authenticity) than it does the aftermath.

We can certainly shove them into neat little boxes like: poor planner, stupid, arrogant, or short-sighted but none of these really address the issue.

Millions of incarcerated humans as a segregating factor. So much for Innate Morality, eh?

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#101085 - 06/25/15 02:10 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: SIN3]
mountaingoat Offline
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While I agree with your premise, you are raising a very similar, but different point. In this case the self-awareness to which you refer is the fundamental awareness of a true aspect of the self. In the case of the insanity plea, the court needs to see a lack of awareness of the individual of his actions within the context of socially accepted norms within the context of the law.
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#101092 - 06/25/15 05:01 PM Re: Borderline disorder [Re: mountaingoat]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MG
the court needs to see a lack of awareness of the individual of his actions within the context of socially accepted norms within the context of the law.


Right off the bat, the logic behind it is flawed. It's awe inspiring to watch this country operate in spite of itself isn't it?

How can the court see something that is so obviously faked? It could account for the statistics for acquittal rates.
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