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#56466 - 07/02/11 04:42 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Diavolo]
MindFux Offline
member


Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
Him ignoring people simply means that he's incapable of holding his own in a discourse with them because they won't conform to his golden rule number 1. Aquino is always right because he's 'Mikey'.

There's nothing in his approach that isn't insulting, he just does it in more passive aggressive and indirect way and hopes that because not 100% of the people will see through it for what it is that no one will notice.

Whether he has 'ignored' me or not makes little difference to me. As I have said before, he already knows he's a complete sham, and as long as he throws up shitty ideas, I'll critique them whether he reads my posts or not - because I'm not trying to convince him of anything. He's beneath my time, and my posts only serve as a counterpoint for his nonsense that others might read if they want. If not it's no skin off my nose.

MF.


Edited by MindFux (07/02/11 04:44 PM)

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#56473 - 07/02/11 07:16 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: ]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
The Book of Coming Forth by Night is Appendix 2 of Dr. Aquino's Temple of Set ebook.


It is the Absolute Truth of the past, present and future in a concise manuscript to posit caveats. The warnings are there for competent people to read, and Life has shown me that it Will unfold even before the kind gesture to re-read the document. But, Mike, take note that not all Setians will be saved for reasons you have been made privy to. It is the nature of True Reality.

Most humans are excluded, so embrace your Satanist background and go forth producing and consuming to the extent feasible by your Self; for, the majority of you just have a single, partial, fragmentary and suffering/pleasing Life. So, live it.

Judgment establishes Knowledge along with a plethora of other things, but I just wanted to further comment on the applicability of the facts of Life. Through Knowledge gained by Judgment you are privy to knowing the facts. Judgment consists of inclusion or exclusion of subjects to a universal predicate (Set as revealed to Mike), so an inclusive judgment is the most fundamental and crucial for survival of humankind. Inclusive or exclusive judgment encompasses a particular (e.g. humankind on an individual basis) with a character of allowing or removing specific differences with an enforcer.

Mike is just doing his one of his many responsibilities in warning others, and deserves accolades instead of being silenced.

Behold, O West. I have established my Aeon. I punish the enemies who are in it placed in the Place of Destruction. I deliver them to the examiners from whose guard there is no escape. Lo! I pass near to thee. I pass near to thee!
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#56474 - 07/02/11 08:08 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: paolo sette]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Unfortunately I don't think we are going get anywhere with this debate.

Both sides have their own, for want of better words, metaphysical position, and nobody is really going to change the metaphysical position of the other side.

Couple this with a group of individuals who champion a healthy ego and are more or less adversarial and ...

The posts as usual are of the highest possible quality mostly, but the personal attacks and insults are unworthy of members of the world's finest online Satanic lair, in my opinion.

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#56475 - 07/02/11 08:39 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: ]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
I may be an unlikely ally of Dr. Aquino, but I’d like to offer a few thoughts in his defense:

• In practically every debate other than Set/non-Set, Dr. Aquino has been a gracious contributor.
• Although I think most of what MindFux said here has been spot on, his use of “old” in criticizing Dr. Aquino was a cheap shot. Age is not the issue, and I think MF would agree.
• Early in my time here, I fucked up bad. Hell responded with a vengeance (deservedly so). Dr. Aquino PM’ed me, not to add to the beating but to offer a bit of guidance. He was the only respondent who didn’t kick me when I was down, and I’ll never forget that.

Carry on.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#56482 - 07/03/11 12:31 AM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: ]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: MatthewJ1
Unfortunately I don't think we are going get anywhere with this debate.

I now have "MindFux" & "Diavolo" on "ignore"; so as far as I am concerned they can debate themselves, or anyone else who desires to. When I put someone on "ignore", I think it is only fair to not comment further either to or about them.

One of the reasons that I came to the 600C in the first place was to see what ideas and attitudes are currently prevalent in the [non-Setian] self-acknowledged "Satanic" culture today. The 600C seemed then, as still now, the most intellectual and sophisticated assemblage within this culture. I have learned a good deal here, while at the same time raising some fundamental questions with which I think aspiring Satanists have yet to fully come to grip.

One of the assets of the 600C is its elitism, but that also promotes what in Political Science we know as "groupthink". It's a common phenomenon; we have to watch out for it in the Temple of Set too. One of the symptoms, once it sets in, can be disproportionately emotional reactions by some individuals to any challenge to the GT "core"; if they can deflect the conversation into an ad hominem fight, the more disturbing "core" questions can be avoided.

And some of these "core" questions have no readily-apparent answers. Not everyone who feels the "Satanic impulse" should or could be a Setian; that's a substantially-different and distinct universe. Yet within the context of "Satanism", we find today not just the question of the identity and existence of its central figure [Can we conceive of Buddhism without the Buddha, Christianity without Jesus, Islam without Mohammed, etc.?], but also - as we were already bumping our noses against during 1966-75 - the inherent confinement of a paradigm conceptualized as the "negation of something else". As you can see from The Church of Satan, we all worked very hard to wrench Satan/Satanism around into something in its own right both independent and positive. But, and again outside of our own enclave, it was a largely frustrating experience. [In the Army we would call it "pissing upwind".]

This particular thread pried the same, somewhat battered door open again. So you're a "Satanist" with the 600C Seal of Approval stamped on your forehead, and you go out into the World of Horrors (as I called it in the Ceremony of the Nine Angles). To what extent can what you learn here, or call yourself here, work "out there"?

In the original Church Anton LaVey actually had a ritual to highlight and satirize this dilemma - "The Madness of Andelsprutz" (Appendix #4 of COS), wherein the lunatics of an asylum select the craziest from among them to go out into the world, then arm him/her with suitable protective devices against the even more psychotic "sane" outsiders. The similarities to this thread should be amusingly obvious.

And of course I myself am a pretty good case study for "public Satanism out there", because, from the moment I was ordained to the Priesthood III° in 1970, I was completely open about it, including a lifelong career as a U.S. Army officer, with graduate school and a subsequent university professorship on the side. And in the middle of this came the most extreme and dangerous "test" - the international witchhunt hysteria of the 1980s. I came through all this OK, but if some kid starts a 600C thread like this and asks, "Would you recommend it?", I'd have to answer, as in effect I did [once again], "It depends upon how really dedicated and committed you are, and to exactly what." Because if you're not, and you don't really know, I would say, "Forget it - Go do something easier, like wrestling alligators."

The "Satanic impulse" - what Setians would call the intelligent human symptom of the Gift of Set - is very real, heroic, and admirable. You all show this symptom, which is why you're here; now you're just coming to grips with it both individually and collectively. Some are cautious, cool, and methodical. Others are having a rougher time. Some shoot themselves in the foot, or both feet; or others' feet. That's just how rocky the Left-Hand Path is.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56483 - 07/03/11 01:04 AM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Ok, so we have gone 7 pages now and I will now invoke Fist's School of Practical Magic.

A few general points...

To the original poster, 'to thy own self be true.' As MAA alludes to, you must find exactly what the "truth" is. What is it that you 'really' want. Are you fulfilling your own true desires or the the ersatz desires that you have been programed to have. In truth, most people will never have an original thought. They will simply regurgitate the ideas of others and claim that they thought this all along. PSYOPS in it's truest form.

As MAA points out, what is this 'Satanism' you speak of? Indeed Michael; Xear, Morgan and myself have had this very same discussion during the wee hours of the morning over strong drink and little sleep. It has even been suggested that we abandon the Satan shtick all together in favor of some other atheistic meme. However, the general consensus remains that invoking the name of Satan sends an unmistakeable message to the mass of society. Once you have claimed to be a Satanist you will no longer be looked at the same way and your own personal thought process will forever be altered. So we kept it.

Does a 'belief' in Satan require a supernatural faith? I would argue that the point is quite fine and largely irrelevant in practical sense. Only those of us here have enough understanding of the subject matter to even debate it. To the outside world Satanism means whatever they want it to mean. The true question is, are you capable of shaping your own reality?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#56485 - 07/03/11 05:31 AM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Fist]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I think it is so weird to put someone on "ignore" when they clearly arent just trolling or writing things in a certain manner to provoke a reaction.

I find that M.A.A. cant quite handle critique, or heated debate, and often tend to take the easy way out. Either bny stopping to answer in a serious manner (joking it all away) or by simply putting people on "ignore". In this thread he has done both.

It is true that he never really falls down into the really nasty tactics but that doesnt mean it is any better to blatantly disregard some peoples valid opinions just because they do not accept what you percieve of as the truth.

I found the same attitude while discussing the nature of the Self and what it was. While some can discuss it creatively M.A.A. tended to write about his views and then take a stance where he would disregard everything else, or spin it into his view, just because "he is right".

I do not wish to argue about this but that is how I percieve him partaking here. He has contributed to good things here but in general he seems very much isolated in his own world disregarding everyone else who doesnt agree without even thinking about it. But hey, perhaps thats the existence he wants for himself. After all he claims that the ultimate goal of the ToS is the immortality of the isolated psyche and the ability to create a world of their own.

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#56486 - 07/03/11 06:50 AM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: TheInsane]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But of course Insane, if we'd be trolling him, we'd be bitch-slapping him with the pedo-pages. This got nothing to do with trolling but with pointing out he's selling only one product and it's Mike. There's no ToS as there is no Set, there is only Mike, Mike, Mike. And he knows we know hence when pressed against the wall with criticism, he starts to act like a baby.

He's been running a race with Anton since the days of the CoS and never could finish first. And now Anton's gone, he has to compete with a ghost which is impossible even when attempting to revision the past. If he had a solid product, he could defend it with more than "It's true and you have to believe me". That's all I asked: show me why it is the truth. So he ducks and I call that what it is; intellectual cowardism. What he does is not different than any of those religious out there; ignore criticism and demand belief.

Well, sorry I'm a satanist and I only see the same type of joke being played I see elsewhere and his past nor pretense doesn't make any difference in that. If people want to take him serious, let them but some of us are not that gullible. If you want no criticism, keep your mouth shut here, it's that easy. You can't have both.

If this is Satanism, Satanism is sure going through sorry days. You know what's funny, I'm laughing all along because these are the builders of Modern Satanism and look, seriously just look at that.

D.

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#56488 - 07/03/11 07:35 AM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Diavolo]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
If he had a solid product, he could defend it with more than "It's true and you have to believe me". That's all I asked: show me why it is the truth. So he ducks and I call that what it is; intellectual cowardism. What he does is not different than any of those religious out there; ignore criticism and demand belief.


This is pretty much spot on. A shame really since it is very interesting having a person around who, for good or bad, has been around the movement (*wink* D.Dread *wink*) for such a long time. Oh well...

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#56489 - 07/03/11 09:08 AM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: TheInsane]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course it is a shame but what is even more a shame is that we just let it slide. It's a shame that when you're satanic, you're called rude by them for being satanic. The reason Satanism exists is exactly because we said “hmm is that really so?” and discovered the answers and arguments were simply not satisfying, more often than not they were mere excuses, diversions. We discovered they all were hiding behind things cast in stone and acts of faith. We never cared about their credentials or accomplishments when it came to the truth they shared so why would we start now?

 Quote:
I question all things. As I stand before the festering and varnished facades of your haughtiest moral dogmas, I write thereon in letters of blazing scorn: Lo and behold; all this is fraud!


D.

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#56493 - 07/03/11 12:19 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Empire of Dread]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
Standing at the side-line and see the plot unfold has always been great for spending time.
As far as the truth goes and the intellectual venom-spitting disguised as what should be a discussion..

Words of the wise come up: "To each their own". (Re)constructing truth by words is good enough to form an idea. Every man has his own eyes and views, what matters would be "what shall I do with it". If I tend to believe in flying mechanical unicorns who created earth, what harm will it do if it enabled my psychological well-being to develop a fantastic mind and carreer?

Make up whatever you want, just chill out. Real live achievements are being reached when the brain isn't fucked up. As for that matter, I prefer to walk next to a Muslim/Christian who is managing his own bussiness and/or has personal goals reached then next to a Satanist who tries to show the other he is wrong.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#56494 - 07/03/11 01:11 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: TheInsane]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2576
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
I think it is so weird to put someone on "ignore" when they clearly arent just trolling or writing things in a certain manner to provoke a reaction.

"MindFux" is on "ignore" for rudeness and tediousness [I can't make up my mind which is worse]. "Diavolo" because, as I drew the comparison to Pancho Pillow in The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test, I have seen nothing but me-too put-downs of anyone/everyone in his/her posts [and I took the time to review them collectively]. Like Kesey, I am not interested in taking D's personal Bad Trip. That's all. If you enjoy either/both, that's assuredly your prerogative.

 Quote:
I find that M.A.A. cant quite handle critique, or heated debate, and often tend to take the easy way out. Either bny stopping to answer in a serious manner (joking it all away) or by simply putting people on "ignore". In this thread he has done both.

On the contrary, I think that the record of my postings here (which anyone can select/review) indicates that I have taken much care with courteous, serious questions. I occasionally inject a little light humor when it seems appropriate, and I have no apologies for that. You want gritted-teeth-deadpan all the time, hey, it's your life.

 Quote:
It is true that he never really falls down into the really nasty tactics but that doesnt mean it is any better to blatantly disregard some peoples valid opinions just because they do not accept what you percieve of as the truth.

The caveat here is "valid opinions". Recall the old truism: "Opinions are like assholes; everybody has one." The 600C is no exception, and all opinions, mine included, are subject to others' critical evaluation. I appreciate and learn from some; I am indifferent to some; and concerning others, to cite another aphorism, "If I wanted to hear from an asshole, I'd fart." But it's easier just to use the "ignore" option.

 Quote:
I found the same attitude while discussing the nature of the Self and what it was. While some can discuss it creatively M.A.A. tended to write about his views and then take a stance where he would disregard everything else, or spin it into his view, just because "he is right".

Unlike some here, I am speaking from a great many years of education, teaching, and experience. While I do not bash impudent upstarts over the head with this, it is a reality, just as it was at the university when students signed up for my PolSci classes. When I was a student, I sometimes felt like a superior or at least a peer too. Usually I wound up with egg on my face.

Satanism, as in the Satanic Bible's "Book of Lucifer", has a lot of built-in smart-ass. Where society's brittle & outmoded sacred cows are concerned, this is arguably appropriate. It is less so on a personal level. Anton routinely grumped to me, and probably Jake too, about the parade of nincompoops who would expect him to treat them like peers. [He too would either deflate them with a little humor or, if necessary, eject them (from 6114, from the Church, from in front of his face). That was his "ignore"-button.]

 Quote:
... in general he seems very much isolated in his own world disregarding everyone else who doesnt agree without even thinking about it.

One of Plato's objections was to the "democratization of truth": the notion that the more people believe something, the more accurate, true, or valid it is. DOT is obviously prevalent throughout human history & culture, but on this I stand with Plato - conditional, also like him, on reaching my conclusions and judgments through a long and careful crucible of learning, examination, and experience.

The flip side of this is that, if you're going to take a stand on something instead of "just going with the flow", you'll be at least inconveniently conspicuous, at most a target for destruction. As the First Beast put it:

 Originally Posted By: Aleister Crowley, The Confessions
If one had to worry about one’s actions in respect of other people’s ideas, one might as well be buried alive in an antheap or married to an ambitious violinist. Whether that man is the prime minister, modifying his opinions to catch votes, or a bourgeois in terror lest some harmless act should be misunderstood and outrage some petty convention, that man is an inferior man and I do not want to have anything to do with him any more than I want to eat canned salmon.

Of course the world forces us all to compromise with our environment to some extent, and we only waste our strength if we fight pitched battles for points which are not worth a skirmish. It is only a faddist who refuses to conform with conventions of dress and the like. But our sincerity should be Roman about things that really matter to us.

And I am still in doubt, as I write these words, as to how far it is right to employ strategy and diplomacy in order to gain one’s point. The great men of the world have stood up and taken their medicine ...

Adaptation to one’s environment makes for a sort of survival; but after all, the supreme victory is only won by those who prove themselves of so much harder stuff than the rest that no power on Earth is able to destroy them. The people who have really made history are the martyrs.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56495 - 07/03/11 01:15 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's amusing that it is you having this sort of criticism not?

This isn't about tolerating what or what not others believe. This is about not tolerating anyone here selling his ideas as the truth, considering all not seeing it as such lesser gifted, and acting like a Missy while refusing to back up their claims. This is about selling a product while refusing to answer questions about it.

What most don't see is that this all is just proselytizing, trying to get to the gullible. This isn't a that innocent game, it is psychological manipulation, almost done by the book. You lie, you deny, you minimize, you divert, you evade and you shame. Is that really so hard to see, especially when considering his background? Don't you find it strange he at all times tries to remain pure while not hesitating to stain. Don't you find it strange he is so eager in delivering criticism while avoiding it at all costs? You want me to show you the mechanics of the game or do you prefer looking it up yourself? This is classic shit, outdated, but still effective when your target group is unaware. I can show you the product, explain how and why it is constructed and how it is being sold here. You can check it for yourself, no need to take my word.

If this was solely about someone believing some stuff, I could care less, as I didn't care before.

But hey, what do I know, I didn't swallow the right pill.

D.

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#56498 - 07/03/11 01:31 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Anton routinely grumped to me, and probably Jake too, about the parade of nincompoops who would expect him to treat them like peers. [He too would either deflate them with a little humor or, if necessary, eject them (from 6114, from the Church, from in front of his face). That was his "ignore"-button.


LOL! His "ignore button" sometimes even included a personal demonstration of a "bums rush" down that steep set of brick stairs from the front door, administered by myself or another of the gentlemen there at any given time. And no, it's not because he couldn't do it himself. That was part of the point... he detested shit disturbers and game players and the overly and unduly pretentious. He had someone else take out the garbage. He had more important things to do.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#56499 - 07/03/11 01:38 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
What most don't see is that this all is just proselytizing, trying to get to the gullible. This isn't a that innocent game, it is psychological manipulation, almost done by the book. You lie, you deny, you minimize, you divert, you evade and you shame. Is that really so hard to see, especially when considering his background? Don't you find it strange he at all times tries to remain pure while not hesitating to stain. Don't you find it strange he is so eager in delivering criticism while avoiding it at all costs? You want me to show you the mechanics of the game or do you prefer looking it up yourself? This is classic shit, outdated, but still effective when your target group is unaware. I can show you the product, explain how and why it is constructed and how it is being sold here. You can check it for yourself, no need to take my word.

The difference between us 2 would be that I'm an outsider and see things from a different perspective. And yes, it is once again me giving critics. I see it in my limited freedom as a right to point at things for whatever reason I come up with.

I am aware of his backgrounds in PSYOPS and am more then enough aware of basic and advanced applications. I simply don't care about it in the first place and tend to filter such things out.

As a matter of fact, I find the behaviour you describe quite natural. He is not the only one acting as such.

In the end, you make the choice to bite his bait not someone else.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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