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#56500 - 07/03/11 01:49 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
It's amusing that it is you having this sort of criticism not?

This isn't about tolerating what or what not others believe. This is about not tolerating anyone here selling his ideas as the truth, considering all not seeing it as such lesser gifted, and acting like a Missy while refusing to back up their claims. This is about selling a product while refusing to answer questions about it.

What most don't see is that this all is just proselytizing, trying to get to the gullible. This isn't a that innocent game, it is psychological manipulation, almost done by the book. You lie, you deny, you minimize, you divert, you evade and you shame. Is that really so hard to see, especially when considering his background? Don't you find it strange he at all times tries to remain pure while not hesitating to stain. Don't you find it strange he is so eager in delivering criticism while avoiding it at all costs? You want me to show you the mechanics of the game or do you prefer looking it up yourself? This is classic shit, outdated, but still effective when your target group is unaware. I can show you the product, explain how and why it is constructed and how it is being sold here. You can check it for yourself, no need to take my word.

D.


Not to fan flames or stir the pot, Diavolo, because honestly, that's not my point here. But the same can be said for any of the theistic types that want to spread the word here... and indeed the ONA types, who are great on dropping memes and memeplexes and making grand allusions to some sinister left that's somehow the boogey man in the closet and dangerous to all outside. But when questioned, asked to provide proofs positive, theists and the ONAs and the Cults of whatever Lovecraftian bugaboo floats their boat ALWAYS fall back on the same types of behaviors and answers.

"You don't have to believe it... but it's real. Proof? Well... that's something maybe we don't need to provide."

So in MMA's defense, if he's guilty of obfuscation, he's not doing anything that isn't common here and elsewhere on the web. Granted, he's a MASTER at deflection and oblique attack... but he's been well trained and schooled. Red pill or Blue pill, most of us here aren't about to swallow any of the claims of those who tout their systems without tangible proofs or at least believable anecdotes. As for the gullible... I've watched them steer away from their own well defined truths to embrace the pipe dreams of another over and over again. That's what the gullible do. Why should we protect them from their nature?

Life's first lesson has always been CAVEAT EMPTOR. Let the buyer beware.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#56501 - 07/03/11 01:59 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But of course, ultimately everyone is selling a product but not all act like a kid caught with their hand in the cookie jar upon discovery. He can have all the gullible he desires since that's what the weak are there for anyways but don't come amongst satanists and act undignified when they're asking the right sort of question. Sure all are selling but the only ones ducking criticism that much here were the christians. All the rest sure is able to state their case and stick by it.

If you're making claims, be ready to back them up. Would that not be logical?

D.

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#56502 - 07/03/11 02:03 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Dimitri]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 509
What? Another Dr. Aquino bashing? LOL . . . seems He can no sooner open His mouth than be attacked, as many other threads prove.

These are not discussions, they are blatant attacks on Dr. Aquino. These attacks seem to me to stem from the very base of which they are attacking . . . 'I'm Right & You're Wrong'.

Instead of the Truly cowardice ad hominem attack, intelligent debate concerning the subject would be a better way to chess-play with Dr. Aquino (or anyone for that matter).
I mean, people just wipe the chessboard pieces off when they aren't winning.

I came to this forum to listen to Dr. Aquino's discussions regarding his tenure with the CoS and Satanism / Setian philosophies. I also desired to understand a bit more about Satanism.

I certainly hope that what I have witnessed in this thread
is not representative of today's Satanist?

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#56504 - 07/03/11 02:08 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
[
 Quote:
Sure all are selling but the only ones ducking criticism that much here were the christians. All the rest sure is able to state their case and stick by it.

Sounds logical, since they were entering "our lair".
You could also wonder how long you can give critisism in an xian place and stand your ground.
It's relative.. up here it would seem they are ducking criticism from your point of view, when you go to their place I'm pretty sure you'll be pointed at as the one who ducks critisism.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#56505 - 07/03/11 02:10 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Oxus]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Oxus
What? Another Dr. Aquino bashing? LOL . . . seems He can no sooner open His mouth than be attacked, as many other threads prove.


Instead of brown-nosing, you maybe should read this thread.

I'll briefly repeat the basics:

MMA: I know the truth.
D: Is that so? Why would I believe that to be true?
MMA: because I'm Aquino and have done this and that.
D: Done this and that isn't really a good argument is it?
MMA: Look there, a bird, you ignorant twat.
D: coward.

Sure, a goddamn bash-fest not?

D.

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#56506 - 07/03/11 03:13 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
"You don't have to believe it... but it's real. Proof? Well... that's something maybe we don't need to provide."

This I have never said; see for example this post of mine to Jason King.

And indeed I recommend a reading, or re-reading, of the included "The Prince and The Magician".
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56507 - 07/03/11 03:40 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
You must have misread my post.

"You don't have to believe it... but it's real. Proof? Well... that's something maybe we don't need to provide." Has been the standard fallback position of those on the web wanting to peddle their esoteric wares, from theists secret orders. To single you and the Temple of Set out for doing the same thing without condemning them out of hand would be disingenuous at best.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#56509 - 07/03/11 04:00 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
To single you and the Temple of Set out for doing the same thing ...

But the Temple of Set doesn't do that, per the example linked in my response (which is just one of many posts here I could reference).

As commented to King, "proof" in the OU/laboratory sense is [not unreasonably] limited to the OU. Within the collective/each individual's SU, there is no such thing (the "moral" of The Prince and The Magician). Instead there is Plato's "pyramid of thought" to the Agathon, which is a very precarious ascent of dialectic & núsis. OU-conditioned minds shy away from it, and of course the Great Unwashed habitually substitute "faith" for it, if they bother to consider it at all.

[Pausing to roll back my sleeves ... ]
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56510 - 07/03/11 04:19 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
M.A.A.

Well its your choice to do whatever you want of course. I am however quite surprised at your choice of action sometimes. Especially when a debate gets heated and difficult but valid arguments come your way. You either retreat or keep saying the same thing post after post like it becomes more true if you say it more times.

It doesnt happen at all times and I understand that you may be more liable to heavy critique but still. Whether its about the existence of Set, the nature of the Self or if its valid to be called a Satanist without a belief in a "real" Satan you seem to be unable to take in much of what people answer your posts with.

I hope Im not coming across as a basher like Oxus suggests (maybe not directed at me but still). I am not here to bash but I find that it is quite sad when valid points are being brought up but you leave the discussion for whatever excuse. One example which could have been a great discussion if the one about Egyptian lingo and how the ToS really has no grasp of even the basics according to MindFux. Not saying that was just your fault but I would have loved to have seen what a mature and respectable debate on the subject would have turned into.

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#56511 - 07/03/11 04:44 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
nightowl Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
Well sticking with the op of real live achievements...
I'm going to have to say hands down Michael Aquino is high man on the totem pole.
When trying to find out who these anonymous nics are or what they have actualy achieved is virtualy null or concoted unprovable BS.
Where as Dr Aquino can count some of the occult greats in his priesthood Stephen Flowers Don Web and Himself.

This mindfux has a website but all it seems to entail is him performing breaking and entering as an insight role.
Now can we believe anyone would do this then broadcast it on the internet?
of coarse not..
the anticapitali express

Seems more of a jealousy thing towards Mr Aquino.

All the hoopla of the Xeper as a verb was rediculous and pointless.
Any occultist knows a scarab beatle stands for initiatory transformation
I don't see where they are wrong at all in there symbolism Kheper

but the verbs wrong...

If anyones making it up as they go along i'd say ONA has taken the nine angles name from Aquino
The tree of Wyrd from Stephen Flowers
dark gods and entities from Lovecraft.
the list goes on...

Ah but they don't peddle that stuff anymore it's all about "doing" which entails them bragging about commiting crimes on the net?
Being subversive yet telling everyone your being subversive?

Now that's all realy believable pffft...

Bringing down society everyday by trolling satanic sites telling on the crimes they commit ?

Makes perfect sence and oh so believable.

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#56512 - 07/03/11 05:43 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: TheInsane]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
Well its your choice to do whatever you want of course. I am however quite surprised at your choice of action sometimes. Especially when a debate gets heated and difficult but valid arguments come your way. You either retreat or keep saying the same thing post after post like it becomes more true if you say it more times.

[Ahem] pot/kettle/black, per your previous post above.

When I post a comment here, it's often on some initiatory concepts or principles that are a bit tough to grasp, and which require some thought-gymnastics. This is not to jerk anyone's chain; it's just where the exit to the Cave leads. The Prince's final option to decide is yours as well.

 Quote:
It doesnt happen at all times and I understand that you may be more liable to heavy critique but still. Whether its about the existence of Set, the nature of the Self or if its valid to be called a Satanist without a belief in a "real" Satan you seem to be unable to take in much of what people answer your posts with.

There is only so much that I can say without being repetitious, or without going beyond the time/space limitations of a board post. That's why I frequently include links to my or others' more extensive writings - which, from posted responses, relatively few put forth the effort to follow up.

 Quote:
I hope Im not coming across as a basher like Oxus suggests (maybe not directed at me but still). I am not here to bash but I find that it is quite sad when valid points are being brought up but you leave the discussion for whatever excuse. One example which could have been a great discussion if the one about Egyptian lingo and how the ToS really has no grasp of even the basics according to MindFux. Not saying that was just your fault but I would have loved to have seen what a mature and respectable debate on the subject would have turned into.

I'm not concerned about "bashing", particularly when it just signals laziness on the part of the basher. There is no place in Satanism for spoon-feeding, or for pandering to fragile egos. You are presented with a question here which interests or bothers you, then go investigate and solve it. Need some motivation? Buy a copy of Morgan's book. \:\)

In the thread concerning Don Webb's Xeper discussion, I said all I felt it necessary to say on the topic, and indeed dignified "MindFux'" harangues far more than they deserved. If you disagree, then by all means go right back there and render the Osculum Infame as you desire.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#56513 - 07/03/11 06:09 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
nightowl Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
Dr Aquino is there a setian tarot available anywhere?
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#56518 - 07/03/11 08:11 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
Mike,

Deconstruct attacks. On Mike's behalf:

Proof is intended to be three-fold: Perception, Inference and/or Testimony. By these, all Proofs are established. From Proof, verily is the establishment of the Provables.

Perception is the ascertainment of each object by the Senses. Inference has been declared to precede by the mark of the Mind, and it is preceded by the thing of which it is the mark of the Mind. While Testimony is the statement of trustworthy entities (e.g. Set)

Apprehension of even existing things may not take place through extreme remoteness, nearness, impairment of the Senses, non-prescence of the Mind, extreme fineness, intervention, suppression by other matters, intermixture and/or other causes.

Proof: either you have it or you don't.

;\)

Set-Heh
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#56520 - 07/03/11 09:11 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 860
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Michael Aquino
Unlike some here, I am speaking from a great many years of education, teaching, and experience. While I do not bash impudent upstarts over the head with this, it is a reality, just as it was at the university when students signed up for my PolSci classes. When I was a student, I sometimes felt like a superior or at least a peer too. Usually I wound up with egg on my face.


Although education and experience certainly have their place, these qualities alone don't make someone right. Surely you realized this in 1975 when you left your mentor Anton LaVey to form your own organization.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#56522 - 07/03/11 09:19 PM Re: Satanism and real live achievments [Re: nightowl]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 509
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
Dr Aquino is there a setian tarot available anywhere?
Yep, but they're all gone

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