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#56698 - 07/11/11 06:03 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 187
Loc: High Peak, UK

"Do Satanists not share this sense of cosmic awe and insignificance?"

No, we as humanity are the most important things in he Universe & what the Universe has been waiting for the past 13.5 billion years............the Universe only exists the way it does because that's the way we see it.
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#56702 - 07/11/11 03:02 PM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: when7iseleven]
Sean the Mystic Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 16
 Originally Posted By: when7iseleven

No, we as humanity are the most important things in he Universe & what the Universe has been waiting for the past 13.5 billion years


LOL this sounds like the same old monotheistic delusion to me, with its "the world was created for us" ideas. To be honest, Satanism seems like little more than a mirror image of Christianity, but I suppose it has a certain antinomian appeal to people raised in that tradition.


Edited by Sean the Mystic (07/11/11 03:16 PM)
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#56706 - 07/11/11 05:05 PM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Most Satanists are simply reverse-Christians, even those that profess Atheism.

I get a little nauseous every time somebody tries to portray the universe as anthropocentric. That fact that humanity constitutes only an infinitesimal flicker of "the past 13.5 billion years" is a pretty clear testament to our cosmic importance.
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#56707 - 07/11/11 05:25 PM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Well, we could find some relevance for humanity since we at least create the universe as it is. No observer, no reality.

D.

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#56726 - 07/12/11 03:06 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: The Zebu]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 187
Loc: High Peak, UK
“Most Satanists are simply reverse-Christians, even those that profess Atheism.”

Well that’s a tad harsh & a very sweeping statement implying that one) you know most Satanists, which I doubt & two) I’m an Atheist, which I doubt.

“I get a little nauseous every time somebody tries to portray the universe as anthropocentric. That fact that humanity constitutes only an infinitesimal flicker of "the past 13.5 billion years" is a pretty clear testament to our cosmic importance.”

Nausea is easily cured, just try a few very deep breaths as it’s all to do with stale air in your stomach.................just four or five usually does it for me.

Of course the Universe as we see it & we understand is anthropocentric, the clue is in the words “as we see it & as we understand it”.............the small patch of evolved radiation we call home only exists in the way it does because that is the way that we see it, it’s the reality that we live in.............we are metaphorically slap bang in the centre of everything.

PS...................you’re quite right, you did use the word anthropocentric far too many times yesterday
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#56729 - 07/12/11 03:23 PM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: when7iseleven]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3112
 Quote:
“Most Satanists are simply reverse-Christians, even those that profess Atheism.”

Well that’s a tad harsh & a very sweeping statement implying that one) you know most Satanists, which I doubt & two) I’m an Atheist, which I doubt.

I'm actually with Zebu on that part. The lack of a belief in higher powers doesn't take away the naivity and illogical morals and/or constructs of the mind. And just as he said, from the vast array of self-professed Satanists most of them tend to be simple reverse-christians despite the use of black imagery and quoting tons of Satanic works.

If you doubt being an Atheist, then you're an agnostic.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#56731 - 07/12/11 03:35 PM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: when7iseleven]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
I'm sorry if I framed my message incorrectly-- I did not mean to imply that you were "reverse-Christian" or an "Atheist".

What I meant, was that, from my experience, most self-identified Satanists I've interacted with treat Satanism like a "religion", and use it to fill the ideological gap left by Christianity, and are usually preoccupied with mocking Nazarene religion rather than exploring their own ideas. This is my own impression.

 Quote:
Of course the Universe as we see it & we understand is anthropocentric, the clue is in the words “as we see it & as we understand it”.............the small patch of evolved radiation we call home only exists in the way it does because that is the way that we see it, it’s the reality that we live in.............we are metaphorically slap bang in the centre of everything.


I don't mean that human beings should (or can) stop seeing the universe in relationship to themselves, as this is essential for our survival. I am talking about the error of ascribing some sort of objective "meaning" to it all, as posited by most religious and mystical systems. I agree with you that the only reliable purpose to life can be what we give to it ourselves... or let other people decide for us.

I refer to Douglas Adam's famous "Puddle Fallacy" for illustration, which your elaboration reminded me of:

 Quote:
Imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, "This is an interesting world I find myself in — an interesting hole I find myself in — fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!" This is such a powerful idea that as the sun rises in the sky and the air heats up and as, gradually, the puddle gets smaller and smaller, it's still frantically hanging on to the notion that everything's going to be alright, because this world was meant to have him in it, was built to have him in it; so the moment he disappears catches him rather by surprise.
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#56796 - 07/14/11 01:43 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
So are you swinging from Venger Satanis nuts? Or are you Venger Satanis? Either way you fail .
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#56801 - 07/14/11 02:24 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Zach_Black]
Sean the Mystic Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 16
Sir do I look like Mr. Satanis to you? Isn't there a forum where the "gutter Satanists" can hurl their inarticulate insults at each other, so the more civilized among us can have adult discussions?

"Do you know what you look like, with your good bag and your cheap shoes?"
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#56805 - 07/14/11 02:52 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I am not exactly a Satanist, but I have found nothing that comes closer to my own perspective"

That's understandable, the people here don't worship Star Wars, and understand it was a movie.

"Isn’t there a better name for this form of spirituality which doesn’t have the deistic, Judeo-Christian connotations?"

Excellent, you ask for another name, yet have no idea about it. Have you even bothered to read the book? Its free in the media room.

"Secondly, isn’t the idea of self-deification almost Christian in its impossible idealism?"

Xitians believe in jesus christ, his father, and the holy ghost as the trinity formed into ONE GOD.

Satanist (usually) view themselves as their own GOD because of how they view their life, their universe, and their role in it. In other words, they are god, because they take responsibly for their lives, actions, words, and deeds. Plus when they die, the show and the universe ends. There are no reruns, part 2, or do overs.

"I am skeptical that man can ever be anything more than a speck of dust on a grain of sand in an infinite, incomprehensible universe."

Then why do you care? If you think you have no meaning in the scheme of things, why don't you kill yourself, since you feel nothing matters?

"Finally, does anyone here honestly believe that “magic” can produce tangible results in the objective world, or is it just a form of theater and psychological manipulation?"

Read a book, read a post, do a search on the topic of magic in this forum. This has been discussed so many times, and recently too.

"LOL this sounds like the same old monotheistic delusion to me, with its "the world was created for us" ideas. To be honest, Satanism seems like little more than a mirror image of Christianity, but I suppose it has a certain antinomian appeal to people raised in that tradition."

Dude, why are you here? You obviously have never read the Satanic Bible, yet you feel quite comfortable bashing people here in this forum. If you think that running around in a robe, trying to be a movie character is all dark and evil and Cthulu like, then maybe you should go find Venger and have a melding of the minds or suckfest.

"....so the more civilized among us can have adult discussions?"

So discussions about how you look silly in a robe with a background of stars is out of the question? Or about how you want to be a religious sith? Wouldn't you have to send George Lucas a tithe?

But do go on, its quite funny.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56806 - 07/14/11 03:16 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Morgan]
Sean the Mystic Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 16
I'm here because there are a few highly intelligent people here with unusual perspectives, like Michael Aquino. I'm certainly not here to speak with garden variety Satanists who enjoy creating drama and hurling petty insults. I will pass on having any intellectual discourse with you on these matters, because to be brutally honest you simply aren't in my league.
_________________________
"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#56807 - 07/14/11 03:26 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I will pass on having any intellectual discourse with you on these matters, because to be brutally honest you simply aren't in my league."

Okay sith-boy, whatever makes you feel safe and secure.

When you are ready to grow up and stop playing games, maybe you will get somewhere near my league. Till then, you are still wearing a Halloween costume, and still have no clue about Satanism.

Morgan

ps,

Go read the Satanic Bible, maybe you will learn something, but I doubt it.
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#56808 - 07/14/11 03:44 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: Sean the Mystic
Sir do I look like Mr. Satanis to you? Isn't there a forum where the "gutter Satanists" can hurl their inarticulate insults at each other, so the more civilized among us can have adult discussions?

"Do you know what you look like, with your good bag and your cheap shoes?"


Well fine sir. You do not look nearly as cool as the Epsy. But in all fairness who could possibly match up to these guns!

http://www.satanicinternationalnetwork.com/photo/view/1172

But in all do credit I think you might fair up on his level .



Edited by blackzach (07/14/11 03:45 AM)
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#56809 - 07/14/11 04:27 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Originally Posted By: Sean the Mystic
so the more civilized among us can have adult discussions?


Says the guy who is still stuck in high school back when he first saw Star Wars and wants to be the next Darth Vader. Mistaking juvenile fantasies for reality doesn't get much more "adult" does it?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Star Wars fan, too, and as cool as I think it would be to be able to force choke someone or shoot lightning from my fingertips, I realize that I'll sooner get a hernia from trying before I'll actually produce a single spark from my pinkie.

And as for ol' Howard Philips, the guy spins a mighty good yarn, but until I see Chthulu raise his tentacles from the ocean depths with my own two eyes, I'll consign him to the category of "fiction".

Satanists aren't interested in substituting fantasies for reality. While a Satanist may enjoy and even indulge in a little fantasy, he/she has no problem recognizing when playtime is over.
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#56810 - 07/14/11 04:33 AM Re: Some criticisms/questions for Satanists [Re: Draculesti]
Sean the Mystic Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 16
OK that's interesting but to me there is no clear dividing line between fantasy and reality. I see all religions as collective fantasies, and I'm OK with that. The ability to imagine fantasy worlds is what I call "magic". And why would I ever want playtime to be over??
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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