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#58414 - 08/21/11 01:07 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: magnitudo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
So here is my two cents on the subject. And this mainly deals with just ghosts since they are my favorite subject in the paranormal.
There has already been a lot of talk about energy so that is where I'll start. In my own humble opinion, I believe the world works by energy. Everything is explained by energy. Our energy is constantly moving throughout our life, not just after we die. Auras. That might be something that some of you don't put much consideration in, however I do. I think our auras are much like a candle flame. Like the flame, they constantly radiate energy into the world around them. The flame from the candle warms the air around it with its shed energy. This energy drifts off of us, settling like psychic dust in the subtle world. This trace of our passing will linger for some time until the energy is picked up by one of the currents of subtle reality. Once it gets caught in one of the ebbs or flows, the energy is moved and agitated, reduced to a neutral state again, and eventually recycled into the greater whole. Not all of the energy that we leave in the world around us is simply cast-off detritus. Some of the energy fingerprints we leave on objects and places are imprints that we very actively put there. By attaching special significance to certian places or things, we actually invest some of our energy into that location or object. Whether we are conscious of the process or not, the more attention and emotion we focus on something, the deeper the impression that we leave upon it. The candle flame will warm a room regardless of whether anything is there to receive its warmth and its light. However, a flame can also be used to warm someone's hands, or it can be used more directly on an object, to burn a mark into it. How close something is to the flame and how long it is exposed to its energy determines how deeply it will be burned.

Now here is my overall point. Let's say your grandmother just passed away. You've inherited her house and a good portion of her personal effects. After a few weeks in the home you start noticing things that seem a little strange. For instance, every time you walk past the kitchen, it seems like you can see your grandmother standing over the stove. You also get a strong sense of her radiating from her favorite rocking chair. It is very likely there is no ghost and your grandmother has already moved on. The feelings and impressions that you're picking up on in the house are simply lingering echoes of your grandmother's energy.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58419 - 08/21/11 04:14 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2515
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Ember
In my own humble opinion, I believe the world works by energy. Everything is explained by energy.

In a word, yes, but the Einstein-train is seriously off the track on this, resulting in all of its ridiculously impossible extensions & consequences. Google "zero point energy" to discover the beginnings of what the Einsteinians have been missing. If you like books, pick up this delightful little number, whose Part 2: Chapters #4-7 really rips into the physics here and updates Nick Cook's groundbreaking The Hunt for Zero Point.

The Order of the Trapezoid has been having fun with Nikola Tesla for decades, and it's great to see the taboos and censorship finally starting to unravel.

"MAD LABS: NIKOLA TESLA"
- by Michael A. Aquino VI°, GM.Tr.
Runes #I-2, September 1983
Order of the Trapezoid
Temple of Set

One thing missing from modern Sci-Fi movies is the really great Mad Lab scene. You know, where the brilliant-but-crazed doctor in the white coat pulls a switch and all of a sudden a score of Tesla coils, van de Graaf generators, and Jacob's ladders start doing their thing to the tune of several million volts of fireworks. It's a close race between Rotwang in Metropolis and Dr. Frankenstein in Frankenstein as to who has the better-equipped Mad Lab. But at least we know who had the best real life ML - an enigmatic gentleman by the name of Nikola Tesla.

If you're a past subscriber to Magistra Wendall's Magic Cat, you may have caught her review of a Radio Electronics article on Tesla. And if you're familiar with the "Elektrischen Vorspiele" as described in Anton LaVey's Satanic Rituals, you'll also know that to really make that ritual sizzle, you have to have lots of ML gear blazing away in the background.

Nikola Tesla was an electrical genius who flourished at the turn of the century, just after the industrial revolution made things like vacuum tubes and machined motor parts possible, and before the field became so commercial and standardized that wild & weird trips into expensive & unknown experimental territory were curtailed.

Tesla pioneered alternating current (AC) devices to the fury of Thomas Edison, who had staked his future on direct current (DC) systems. The "war of the currents" reached an extreme when Edison paid street boys to round up stray dogs and cats so that they could be dramatically electrocuted in public demonstrations of the "danger" of AC. Nevertheless AC triumphed, which is why you've got it coming out of your wall sockets today. Tesla is now officially (per a U.S. Supreme Court decision) credited as the inventor of radio, bumping Marconi's claim to same.

In March of 1895 Tesla's New York City ML, in which he had astounded such notables as Mark Twain and John Astor, caught fire and burned to the ground. Undaunted, Tesla moved to Colorado Springs and built another ML with a 145' mast topped by a 3' metal sphere. When fired up, this little gem could send artificial lightning arcs to rods as far away as 12 miles. Biographer Margaret Cheney recounts:

 Quote:
Nights when experiments were being made with the magnifying transmitter the prairie sky exploded with sound and color. Even the earth seemed alive, and the crash of thunder from the spark gap could be heard for miles. Butterflies were sucked into the vortex of the transmitter coil, which was 52' in diameter. Awed spectators at some distance from the station told of seeing tiny sparks flying between grains of sand and between their heels and the ground when they walked. They said that at 300' away, arcs an inch long could be drawn from grounded metal objects. Horses grazing peacefully half a mile away would suddenly go berserk, feeling shocks through their metal shoes.

During one particularly wild ML session, Tesla managed to overload the Colorado Springs power station, blowing out its main generator and blacking out the entire city. The authorities, perhaps understandably, declined to allow him to hook into the reserve generator.

Returning to the east coast with volumes of shocking and electrifying notes, Testa coaxed Pierpont Morgan to fund an even more ominous ML out on Long Island, consisting of a 187' tower capped by a mushroom-shaped bank of electrodes 100' in diameter. Funding ran out before Tesla could fire this baby up, which was probably just as well for the peace of mind of Long Islanders. Just testing the tower was enough to light up the night sky for miles around.

Nikola Tesla was a no-nonsense materialist who described human beings as "meat machines" and felt that every notion of thought could be traced to sensory input. Hence the "soul" was simply the sum total of the brain's information and perished upon the body's death. But Tesla was troubled by ESP in the form of what he called "cosmic pain", of which he wrote:

 Quote:
A very sensitive and observant being, with his highly developed mechanism all intact, and acting with precision in obedience to the changing conditions of the environment, is endowed with a transcending mechanical sense, enabling him to evade perils too subtle to be directly perceived. When he comes in contact with others whose controlling organs are radically faulty, that sense asserts itself and he feels the 'cosmic pain'.

At a lecture in London in 1892 Tesla displayed a vacuum tube so sensitive that it would react to almost any movement - even the stiffening of Tesla's hand muscles - in its vicinity. This raises the interesting idea of hypersensitive electronic sensors being used to detect and record phenomena during magical Workings which may be outside the range of human senses.

Anton LaVey's experiments led him to conclude that an ionized atmosphere greatly enhanced the effectiveness of LBM/GBM Workings in which materializations or sensory breakthroughs into unusual manifestations of existence were sought. In true ML tradition he favored primitive and spectacular gadgets such as a Jacob's ladder that would give off a sharp crack and a good puff of ozone to boot. You can achieve mild ionization with ultraviolet light tubes, and there are also ion generators on the market which will serve up negative ions aplenty. Be careful and don't toast yourself.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

Cheney, Margaret, Tesla: Man Out of Time. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, 1981. Definitive biography, also available in paperback. Includes a good bibliographical resource section.

Tesla, Nikola, Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency. Hawthorne, California: Omni Publications, 1979. Contains the description & plans of the hypersensitive ghost tube.

Martin, Thomas Commerford, The Inventions, Researches, and Writings of Nikola Tesla. Highly technical treatment, recommended for advanced ML magicians only.

Soyka, Fred with Edmonds, Alan, The Ion Effect. New York: E.P. Dutton, 1977. Bantam paperback later printed. The ropes of air-ionization.

On the Temple of Set Reading List, see especially #19I/J and #22L.

If you're Black Magician enough, or just crazy enough, to want to build your own Mad Lab, here's where to start. Make sure your fire insurance is paid up.


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#58427 - 08/21/11 07:02 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
The vaccum seems interesting. But I don't see how it relates to what I was talking about. I can see where it would make my vague statment of 'energy explaining everything' and add some questions to it. I'll research it further. But, who is the author of the book you mentioned, "This Delightful Little Number"? I tried googleing it and just got a bunch of resoultes about fashion.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58428 - 08/21/11 07:10 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem with ghosts explaining as lingering energy is that if it would be true, there would be a load of "appearances" everywhere we live.

Have you any idea how many lifeforms lived in certain areas since life appeared on Earth? By the same logic of seeing one's grandmother energy linger somewhere, we'd have to see loads of other people, animals and even dinosaurs. Ghosts would be a quite natural and constantly visible phenomena.

D.

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#58429 - 08/21/11 07:37 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
There have been claims to animal 'hauntings'. But what you are failing to get is the amount of energy needed to 'burn' an impression into a given area. Just everyday walking through a place or living somewhere for years is not enough. And energy is not stagnant. It would eventually move on. But of course, the more energy present, the longer it takes. And you also have to remember. The grandchild moving into the house would know the 'feel' the energy of his/her grandmother well and 'pick up' on it better than a stranger or even a distant relative would. As humans, we tend to not be very aware of energy. And for someone such as yourself who doesn't believe in it, you would ignore it. I know that sounds like a very convient scapegoat and maybe it is. But this is what makes sense to me. Not going to say I am unwilling to learn about something else. We can only explain our reality by what we know of it. And if someone can give me something that makes me question what I have believed for years, I'll applaud you.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58431 - 08/21/11 07:44 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What energy are you burning? There is no specific "you" energy in you since you replace it daily. So what you are burning is energy which comes from food.

And if energy burning was sufficient, a television, or dishwasher should have a much clearer "presence" after removal than something living and moving constantly.

D.

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#58432 - 08/21/11 07:47 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
Much like there are different forms of vibrations in this world. Some you are aware of, some you are not. There are differnt 'frequtcies' of energy. Energy you get from food and energy you pass to maggots once you die is physical energy, the 'you' energy is psychic energy. And the energy from applicaces is called electricity.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58434 - 08/21/11 07:50 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
And on a side note. EMF (electromagnetic field) and it is produced by electrically charged objects. It has the properties of an electric field (an electric voltage gradient in space) and a magnetic field. Power lines and appliances can generate a time-varying EMF (because our electricity is AC and cycles at 60 Hz), while the earth's magnetic field is a static field. This is the presence of the appliances you spoke of. It actually has phsical effects on humans and is often mistake for ghost activity.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58435 - 08/21/11 07:57 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But now you're just making things up. There is no "psychic" energy.

We are no transformer turning normal energy into "psychic" energy, assuming you imply something "supernormal" with this.

You're adapting things to fit your belief, not questioning if your belief fits reality.

If energy burns into its environment and lingers after it is gone, Chernobyl should have a clear reactor showing at night because what that one produced and burned into its environment during those years (before the meltdown) can never be attained by any human energy source.

D.

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#58437 - 08/21/11 08:13 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
Psycich energy, explained by C.G. Jung, look it up. Jung is also the one who talked about the collective unconscious and archetypes. He is a world renowned psychologists who orginaly studied under Frued until they parted ways in 1912.

And I said there are different forms of energy. Psychic energy and electricty are two different things. Never said energy transformed. You're adapting your interpretation of my words so you don't get but hurt by a newbie.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58438 - 08/21/11 08:19 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
I wasn't familiar with Chernobyl until you just mentioned it so I looked it up. It was a nuclear powerplant the blew up. Still much different kind of energy. It left a physical impression on the world and like I said about psychic energy, it moved on. I am sure the radiation left an impression on something, maybe a water iquana will now become Godzilla. You are refusing to step back and think about what I am saying. Be objective. After all most opinions that are suppose to be based on knowledge are based upon interpretations first. Then you back up the interpretations with facts. Stop trying to tear down my interpretation and give me some facts supporting yours.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58439 - 08/21/11 08:25 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What facts? I'm not making claims, I'm deconstructing yours, so it is actually you who has to provide the facts.

Look this is what you claim. Humans produce "special" energy which can linger at the places they frequented before they died. This is the only sort of energy doing this. But to make it even more special, not all humans linger after their death because else ghost sightings would be a very common phenomena, only a couple do and only at certain moments and only visible by some people.

That's your claim. Doesn't it sound slightly "made up?". I mean, which part at all can be explained decently?

D.


Edited by Diavolo (08/21/11 08:26 PM)

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#58440 - 08/21/11 09:05 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
Humans are not the only beings who produce psychic energy. And no it is not the only sort of energy that does that. Radio waves do it.

Do you believe in things like chakras and chi. It is the same type of energy. Of course if you don't believe in that then you won't believe in what I am saying. Does that make me false? no.
My I quote Nietzsche, 'Everything is subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevals at a given time is a function of power not truth.'

Let me put it into terms you may be more familiar with. In ritual, my concept so far is that ritual a psychodrama. Duh, obvious. I believe the majority say that if you need a particular ritual to really work like say a destruction spell, you should not vent your anger and frustration until after your work so you have a more emotionaly charged experience. What charges that emotion? What is it that takes that emotion, that pent up frustration and sends it? The very energy I am talking about. Your 'special' energy. And if something can charge something then it must be able to vary the charge.


Jung regarded the psychic energy as a basic life-force which would manifest itself as needed (eating, moving, thinking, sex, remembering, etc.) not concentrating through childhood in various body zones (oral, anal, genital) as Freud envisaged. The psychic energy resembled physical energy: it could be exchanged with the external world in muscular effort or ingestion of food, but otherwise remained as a reservoir to be used for thought, sexual activity, artistic creation and so on.

I am not going to run through every way of saying it I can to make you see my point. You don't have to. This is just my opinion like I said in the begining.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58441 - 08/21/11 09:29 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Again, the only energy humans radiate into their environment is by heat loss, movement etc. The only energy that is stored in humans is in fat and minerals. This is, evidently, a backup for when they don't take in new energy.

Any special energy should be explained with a special explanation. If it was there, one should be able to detect it and it would be known to us. Thinking it is there because we like it to be there does not provide any evidence at all it is actually there.

The energy of humans that leaks into their environment is not something special so other energy leaking should produce similar effects as you claim to happen. Why does a radiator not leave an "imprint" after removal? These are quite evident questions which can't simply be dismissed by each time inventing something "special" again.

Why do not all humans that died leave their lingering energy? Why is it not always seen? Again, quite logical questions.

What you do this far is not explaining anything but add more and more that can't be explained and as such, only complicate it further.

So instead of embracing people challenging our ideas, as you claimed yourself, you prefer to hide deeper and deeper into obscurity. You try to avoid anything deconstructing your belief.

D.

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#58444 - 08/21/11 10:19 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Do you believe in things like chakras and chi. It is the same type of energy. Of course if you don't believe in that then you won't believe in what I am saying. Does that make me false? no.


Chakras and chi have nothing to do with each other, much less Jung or radio waves. You're just pulling exotic-sounding concepts from foreign cultures you don't understand.

 Quote:
What charges that emotion? What is it that takes that emotion, that pent up frustration and sends it?


That would be the chemicals in your hypothalamus.

 Quote:
There are differnt 'frequtcies' of energy. Energy you get from food and energy you pass to maggots once you die is physical energy, the 'you' energy is psychic energy. And the energy from applicaces is called electricity.


Those categories have nothing to do with frequency. "You" energy is meat. Meat energy. You are made of meat, ingesting calories to produce chemicals in your brain that make you think. When meat gone, you gone. You are chemicals. There is no Heaven. Have a nice day.
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