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#58445 - 08/21/11 10:24 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
I explained all of that.
I told you about impressions. I said all humans do do this just in various degrees. All living organisms do this. There is a difference in a living oragnism and a radiator but I even gave you EMF. Which is the impression a radiator can make.

Psychic energy is learned by every psychology student in every psychology class today. That is where I learned about it. I gave you a real life person with real life theories. The defintion I got was from my psychology text book directly, that I use in my class at collage.

I offered for you to give me other explinations. I even said I would applaud you if you could convience me otherswise. All you have said is that there is no way my 'special' energy can exist. Why can't it? Because you don't understand it? Because you can't concieve how this could be possible? The only reason why my opinion should be considered illogical is if you can logicaly prove it wrong. Do that.

Lets get a little deeper. Science since you believe psychology is still a psuedo-science. Quantom Physics.
(copied this from a link I provided to you)
Quantum physics is a branch of science that deals with discrete, indivisible units of energy called quanta as described by the Quantum Theory. There are five main ideas represented in Quantum Theory:

-Energy is not continuous, but comes in small but discrete units.
-The elementary particles behave both like particles and like waves.
-The movement of these particles is inherently random.
-It is physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time. The more precisely one is known, the less precise the measurement of the other is.
-The atomic world is nothing like the world we live in.

What that basicaly means is, energy does a hell of a lot more than radiate heat from out bodies.

Do some research. I am not hiding behind anything. I was trying to explain something to you on a very basic level. I am not going to give you a step by step on quantum physics, Jung's research, or anything else.

Here is a link for you to shift through if you want
http://www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-encyclopedia/psychic-energy
http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/science/physics_quantum.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/3487/qp.html

Here is a book
http://www.jstor.org/pss/186758

And just for your enjoyment
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-...ychic-phenomena
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#58446 - 08/21/11 10:43 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem is that all energy either produced or lost by the body is well known and none of it is "special". So anything "losing" the same sort of energy should show the same sort of behavior.

You throw in something "special" which apparently is known by psychologists but not by scientists which is a strange claim not? The problem is that people "claiming" something are not necessarily right and that their claim, or others believing that claim does not equal evidence.

I know enough of QM to know it does not support any of this.

All I ask is; give me facts, not unsupported explanations. There's enough science out there, surely there must be proof of this energy and its capacities. If there is none, isn't all this simply faith?

D.

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#58447 - 08/21/11 10:54 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Adding to this, let me go with you in this and assume you are right about that energy. Then you still can't explain why it is not a normal phenomena considering the billions of people that died during the last decades.

Let me give you an example, I have a mattress here which belonged to an old dude and on which he actually died. According your logic, that very object he spent most of his time on and radiated most of his energy. Why did I never see him?

Also, if you make claims, I do not need to disprove them. You actually are the one having to provide a compelling argument or evidence.

D.

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#58449 - 08/21/11 11:22 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
Tell me why my opinion is so far fetched. I am being honest in saying that. I know you say it is because it does not happen every day when I believe it does and you wonder why people aren't seeing ghosts everywhere. My answer to that question why ghosts are not everywhere is because this energy moves. And it isn't the person themselves that is moving around, it is their energy. The energy does not belong to one person. Everyone's energy belongs to everything. I believe that this is the extreme energy that created the big bang. And with this theory everything about the world makes sense to me. I came here hoping to find knowledge old and new. You are extremely set on your views, so why do you see things the way you do? Why is my energy non existante to you. What is said anywhere that there is only physical energy that you consume. I like to completely understand things that is why I have worried about this for so long. And also like I said earlier, you can only make of your reality what you know of it.
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#58450 - 08/21/11 11:30 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL


This has nothing to do with "life force" or anything of the sort. It does not address the concept of "psychic energy" as existing outside of human consciousness or influencing reality in a quantum manner.



An amusing page, but still irrelevant to your argument. It deals solely with ESP phenomena, which even if it was true, does not imply the existence of any "life force" governing biota.

 Quote:
What that basicaly means is, energy does a hell of a lot more than radiate heat from out bodies.


Those rules, and quantum physics, have absolutely nothing to do with your aforementioned idea of "psychic energy".

You're trying to paste together a heap of unrelated concepts you don't seem to understand very well.
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#58451 - 08/21/11 11:45 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm not set in my views but that doesn't imply I just consider every opinion as valid. There is more needed than sounding good for me to seriously consider it.

It is far fetched because everything we know does tell us otherwise. So why would we assume science is wrong about exactly this while we accept it to be right about so many others things? During the last 50k years, it is assumed about 106 billion humans were born. A hundred billion of them died and none ever came back. Even if we'd take the few ghost sightings as valid, they would be an extremely small % of all dead people. It can't be explained by energy “fading" since too many of the ghost sightings are people of quite some years ago. So logically, every city should be filled by recently deceased. It can't be explained by energy moving because it's a shitload of energy and where does it move to?

So what is the most plausible answer? That the rare ghost-sightings have probably little to do with ghosts or lingering energy and that the whole myth build around it is filled with vague and non-explanatory arguments.

Everything you claimed is vague, now even adding this is the same sort of energy creating the Big Bang but that's not different from me claiming Santa Claus is real. It's just a proclamation of faith, nothing more. Everything that makes it “feel” real is the desire it to be real. That's all.

D.

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#58453 - 08/22/11 12:00 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
It is far fetched because everything we know does tell us otherwise. So why would we assume science is wrong about exactly this while we accept it to be right about so many others things?


It's not that conventional science is "wrong" about this-- it simply doesn't address it at all. Yes, one can posit that there is a certain threshold of science where the apparent laws of Newtonian physics breaks down, but the existence of a "grey area" in knowledge doesn't give a person license to fill it with with whatever nonsense their egos compel them to.

The arguments presented here simply don't hold enough water, or have any underlying connection for that matter. Ember is not actually proposing any systematic methodology for these theories, merely using vague buzzwords like "life-force", "energy", and "vibrations", with some disparate New-Agey terms thrown in to make it seem spiritual.
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#58454 - 08/22/11 12:14 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course there is no science in "afterlife" because from what science knows, the idea is just not plausible. It's pretty hard for a science to develop upon something which provides nothing it can develop upon. But most of what is suggested as an argument we know isn't affirmed by any science and actually does not behave at all as suggested.

But by constantly inventing something new one does not make anything more probably. I can keep adding special exceptions too trying to claim god, Santa Claus or the unicorns to be true.

But that's not really the way it is done and that is actually being "set in their views" because instead of considering the option it might not be true, everything possible is done to make it remain true.

D.

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#58455 - 08/22/11 12:47 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
What I am trying to talk about is something that I have talked about with many other people. I know I am not getting something right but I think it is how I am presenting it. The energy I am talking about I have read about in several occult books and I am not just making up as I go. I don't believe in an afterlife. If that is why you put that in your message. Let me look at a few things more I know what I am thinking and I have seen it talked about in other threads on this site maybe I just have something backwards. I am not set in my views I am just not getting them out right and I feel like you aren't understanding what I am talking about.
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"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58459 - 08/22/11 02:15 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
All your other bullshit aside, I will simply address this:

 Quote:
The energy I am talking about I have read about in several occult books and I am not just making up as I go.


Just because you read about it in a "Occult book" doesn't make it true. Sure, you might not be making it up but that says nothing about the reliability of your source(s).

You sound like any number of flakes I have come across while slumming it in the Haight-Ashbury area in San Francisco. I couldn't take them seriously either.
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#58467 - 08/22/11 09:52 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3928
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Energy is not a 'thing'

Energy is defined as the ability to do work. That's it.

All else is mystical hubba bubba.
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#58470 - 08/22/11 10:32 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I guess what I'm getting at is that such thinking is a reflection of anthropocentric prejudice (there I go with that damned word again...). Basically, humans tend to view the universe with rose-tinted glasses, egotistically thinking that themselves and their thoughts somehow merit cosmic importance.

This is where we get ideas like geocentrism, where the universe revolves around us, and creationism, where the everything in the universe was made only 6,000 years ago for human exploitation.

Claiming that human thoughts (which are abstracts, not things in themselves) are so special they merit their own special type of "energy" that can affect the universe nonphysically is simply falling into this trap. We'd all love to believe it in a heartbeat, but without any substantial explanations it will always remain in the realm of speculation.

We've gone through a long history of outdated explanations of the universe-- animism, theism, hermeticism, spiritism, etc. The idea of some quantum "life force" is really just another last-ditch attempt at salvaging this legacy. This is why such people can't resist dressing up their half-baked theories with mystical terms, even though they are being grossly misappropriated. They simply want an excuse to believe that they and their thoughts "matter".
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#58471 - 08/22/11 11:13 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 199
Loc: High Peak, UK
Hi Zebu

"...........Basically, humans tend to view the universe with rose-tinted glasses, egotistically thinking that themselves and their thoughts somehow merit cosmic importance."

The Universe only exists in the way it does because that's the way that we see it; we are the "storytellers" of the Universe & without that story being told would it have ever existed? At best you could say that all the dramas of the Universe played out to empty seats.

"This is where we get ideas like geocentrism, where the universe revolves around us, and creationism,"

Putting creationism into the mix does give it a rather cranky view but it's not the only way of looking at geocentrism; if you accept that the horizon of the Universe is 13.5 billion years that is the boundary of the Universe that has meaning to us, if there is anything beyond it then it will be meaningless to us. But whichever way you look in the sky with whatever powerful telescope you may have, the 13.5 billion year boundary is there; the Universe looks the same wherever you look. That puts us right in the centre of the Universe, not with things rotating around us but in the centre nonetheless. It could be said that centrality on it's own gave us a priveliged position in the Cosmos.

Regards

W
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#58484 - 08/22/11 04:52 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: when7iseleven]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
I am just happy that someone finely understood what the hell I was trying to talk about. It doesn't mean anything to me if you don't agree with it. I don't just agree with everything I read. I base it upon my own experience and knowledge I have. If it doesn't go against it, I consider it. I just have always found this to be a good explination to me.
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"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58495 - 08/22/11 11:08 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Squiddles Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
I've never bought into ghosts or telekenisis other than for fun.

I can appreciate the idea that there is more to the world than meets the eye and that certain things may be extraordinarily hard to detect or measure - but over the course of decades and centuries science and technology have been very reliable sieves for separating fanciful notions from real entities.

Frankly, given that the same paranormal things have been rumored for thousands of years, I think if there were anything real to it by now we would have the technological knowledge to unambiguously prove it.
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