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#56715 - 07/11/11 07:46 PM Paranormal?
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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As the majority of us are Satanists by LaVey's definition, how do you view the paranormal? I know that this is an Atheistic religion, but remember, LaVey was a paranormal investigator at one point. (Despite the fact that they were mostly nut calls). Please, share your thoughts.
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#56725 - 07/12/11 02:43 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Dimitri Offline
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If the proof of a paranormal activity has been given then I would believe in whatever activity it was.

Extraordinary statements requires extraordinary proof etc..
I'm quite hard headed on such topics. I want to believe but..

 Quote:
but remember, LaVey was a paranormal investigator at one point.

I do not see him as an idol. And there are 2 kinds of investigators: those who have a critical mind and those who don't.
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#56727 - 07/12/11 03:15 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Jake999 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LeftHandOvGod
I know that this is an Atheistic religion, but remember, LaVey was a paranormal investigator at one point. (Despite the fact that they were mostly nut calls). Please, share your thoughts.


LaVey was indeed a "paranormal researcher," but not because he believed in paranormal activities. The main reason was to see what made people tick and to try to understand why their minds automatically jumped to the paranormal when they heard bumps in the night that could easily be traced with a bit of skepticism and critical thinking.

My source? I got it from the horse's mouth.
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#56909 - 07/15/11 02:42 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Jake999]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Jake999
The main reason was to see what made people tick and to try to understand why their minds automatically jumped to the paranormal when they heard bumps in the night that could easily be traced with a bit of skepticism and critical thinking.


I understand. I am a skeptic when it comes to the paranormal. I feel if something happens that seems unexplainable, it is a natural duty to try and explain it. If I cannot explain it, then it can be labeled just as that 'unexplained'. I am not one to quickly accept something as paranormal.


Edited by LeftHandOvGod (07/15/11 02:45 PM)
Edit Reason: Adding Response

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#56917 - 07/15/11 07:16 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Consider this.
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#56918 - 07/15/11 07:34 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Hegesias Offline
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Why ignore Diavolo, Dan Dread, and MindFux as those writers are some of the most radical?

Simply because their tone is unsympathetic to you is cause to ignore them?

I'd like to see male bonding, positive reactions in real life, completely different to the way people here are so trivial and unappreciative due to forum views that aren't necessarily carved in stone, but are respectable questioning of ideas towards an understanding.

People change, people come to realisations through conflict resolution Mike, you know this and I'm not trying to be condescending or anything like that, I respect your work, and likewise, the respectable questioning of it's ideas.

It all goes toward realisation and improvement on all sides, but breaking communications with some of the most radical thinkers on this forum is something I can't really understand.
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#56919 - 07/15/11 07:43 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Hegesias Offline
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On topic; considering the nature of consciousness and perspectivism relating to reality, it is plausible to consider that our wakefulness and perceived solidarity may not be as it seems but working along quantum holographic principles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fWtBq8uWKE&feature=related

I would conjecture that there is a link to the paranormal.

Sleep paralysis and release of DMT from the pineal gland has caused hypnagogic hallucinations that exposes the perceptions to the most primal and pure fear. The sensory perception of the manifestation can lead to Sudden Unexplained Nocturnal Death Syndrome (SUNDS) whereby the only factor between hallucination and the paranormal is belief.

Given the nature of quantum consciousness, it is plausible that what our field perception perceives; what we vibrate in unison with, may be revealed and communed with.
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#56995 - 07/17/11 11:15 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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So, Hegesias. Do you believe the paranormal is nothing but hallucinations from our own minds? Caused by the release of DMT?

Personally, I feel there could be more to it than that. Is the EVP's and PX Devices just for show? What about the spikes in EMF detectors and the sudden change in room temperature, along with the draining of battery life during a supposed manifestation?

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#57012 - 07/17/11 04:35 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Diavolo Offline
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Maybe it is wise to check all sides on these ghost boxes. A funky radio receiver going though frequencies does not make a good communication device.

We are hardwired to find sense in the nonsensical. All that stuff does is exploit that weakness.

D.

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#57014 - 07/17/11 05:26 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
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It find it very possible that there are different levels of reality completely removed from normal human consciousness.

However, if humans are capable of even remotely perceiving such things, our limited senses would most certainly be unable to fully comprehend the complete nature of what lies "beyond".

Quantum physics may provide some speculation into how such things could theoretically work, but we are faced with the problem of our own cultural and religious prejudices, which more often then not distort our perception of the unknown in search of "transcendence", "higher intelligences", or worst of all, "life beyond death".

At the worst, we are simply toys to our own psycho-somatic delusions. And the other (though slightly more picturesque) worst, we are on the edge of Lovecraft's "Black Seas of Infinity".
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#57016 - 07/17/11 06:49 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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I don't see the paranormal as proof of life after death, but perhaps a way of showing our bodies energies stay 'alive' after our bodies die. Science states that energy cannot be destroyed, only transformed. So what if the 'supernatural' is just our bodily energy transformed after death? Just a thought.
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#57020 - 07/17/11 07:58 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Hegesias Offline
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Do those machines react to human vibrations?

I'm a skeptic but it doesn't mean I'm not really interested in finding the scientific explanations that can possibly be more dark than the fiction.
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#57025 - 07/17/11 08:19 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Hegesias Offline
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Idea.

Energy does "die" it becomes unusable by the law of Entropy, the hidden force in Nature some refer to as Satan.

Since perception ceases after death, causality ceases, hence, there will be no linear transition to be perceived for any "energy" of the person meeting annihilation by the law of entropy. Anything remaining of the person is instantaneously equalised with the one black hole state of universal heat death. To be one with deadness. \:D

To think that a "consciousness" or "energy" would retain any anthropomorphous traits or perceptions in relation to the living would be ill conceived? The unfeeling deadness of chaotic information, the essence of consciousness, experiences itself as human only because of it's parasitizing of the human apparatus that experiences the five senses as something profound, although as utterly insignificant as the cosmic dust we are.

I would suggest that something more hideous and unfeeling, indifferent to human fears could exist, to destroy us without specific intent. Nature itself and our discovering of it.
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#57040 - 07/18/11 12:50 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
Energy does "die" it becomes unusable by the law of Entropy, the hidden force in Nature some refer to as Satan.


Energy "dies"? I thought the principles of entropy imply that it simply moves from one system to another?

But I do agree that it is highly unlikely that any semblance of consciousness or humanity survives once one passes the threshold of death and returns back into the cycle of Chaos. Physis-- alchemical dissolution and coagulation, if you will.

To draw a graphic analogy, you might as well throw yourself into a wood-chipper and hope all of your limbs and organs somehow reconstitute themselves into a bipedal form after the blades and gears spit them out.

 Quote:

I would suggest that something more hideous and unfeeling, indifferent to human fears could exist, to destroy us without specific intent. Nature itself and our discovering of it.


Pretty spot-on in my opinion.


Edited by The Zebu (07/18/11 12:55 AM)
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#57045 - 07/18/11 02:38 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
I don't see the paranormal as proof of life after death, but perhaps a way of showing our bodies energies stay 'alive' after our bodies die.

That's called decomposition, a natural proces which will make you look like Lindsay Lohan.

Or you can still believe in the will-o'-the-wisp in its most traditional sense.

 Originally Posted By: zebu
It find it very possible that there are different levels of reality completely removed from normal human consciousness.

I do not find that very possible, unless it stated that different levels of reality are unseen by organoleptic limitations.


Edited by Dimitri (07/18/11 02:42 AM)
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#57046 - 07/18/11 02:40 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
Hegesias Offline
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Now, I'm still digging at paranormal occurrences being explainable by psychology with some quantum holography thrown in because it's relevant to consciousness. It's to do with that annoying thing called consciousness. Whether personal or impersonal doesn't really matter here.

Having experience with paranormal type stuff, well kind of, I'm not sure what it was, a black miasma that gives you a migraine and makes you feel sick, yea it's nice, but hasn't returned as anything but a residual unseen presence. Ring any bells? no? Nevermind, if you think I'm making it up then your only denying what I regard as psychological damage affecting perception.

Still, I've done basic but determined rituals based on cultivating the encounter in hope to experience the waking reveries of hynogogia I had as a boy. I've got some similar results, deadness presence in the room etc. it actually felt like something was missing inside to find scientific answers after years of research, because for years I thought the fucked up shit was something real, and so the black miasma was dear to me like many people who are victims of their beliefs. \:D

I'm still a skeptic.

There's a Dr, a one Barbara Young who wrote the negative entity phenomenon article, so called expert in the field cloaking moral views in a white lab coat, she got concerned when I explained to her how I was cultivating my Jungian shadow that was quite a thick and nasty one consisting of repressed violence. Regardless of my scientific findings about what the encounter was, one thing remains unsolved, the after symptoms that would last for around two days after, the muscle pain, headache and gut wrenching vertigo when light hit my retinas.

http://www.ufodigest.com/news/0707/entity.html

The picture is actually spot on and is what made me stop for pause of thought, even though the spiritual stuff is bullshit, I believe there is a simple explanation to do with shadow aspects of psyche.

Sure it sounds like repression of child abuse memories and all that condescending obviousness apparent to anyone remotely emotionally intelligent, and yes there was violence in the home, this is also when the entity came, but still I couldn't look at the light without my guts wrenching and my eyes rolling back into my head. Nothing to do with the violence in the home which I was quite used to, this was something distracting from everything going on at the time, I was withdrawn by the strangeness of it. Never believing in ghosts or anything like that, this was just a shadow that would appear, give me a headache and make me feel guts wrenching sickness and my eyes rolled back into my head, I'd be extremely aggressive, black out violence, I'd ripped off one other boy's ear, and bitten into another's face, provoked by them nearing me while I was in pain.

Sleep paralysis and waking reveries can explain the shadow and the headache but not the muscle pain and inability to go outside in the light without gut wrenching nausea.

A conception.

The optical delusion of consciousness derived from the relativity of signals conveying information; The causally bound apparatus which is regarded as us, lending by design, to perceive a deterministic dead-matter mechanical universe. This is the causal materialist paradigm, or, what the Gnostics spite as the demiurge crime.

If we look at this quantum holography gobbledegook in Gnostic parallels, Jungian or otherwise antiquitous, we can make it all rather simple and give memorable signifier to the science of it all.

Quantum holographic information is a macroscale structure extending to all physical objects including our brains, our bodies and all that we encounter to be phenomenal. Considering those of the deterministic material causality paradigm cannot think about the implications of quantum holographic information being a non material causality operating probabilistically.

That all is non-local information and infinitely more Chaotic than our senses would disclose is due to the Judeo-Christian conditioning imposed all around as actual reality, by changing our density vibration, our consciousness censorships may be more or less removed to encounter usable information from our quantum hologram producing measurable non local causal events. Tricking ones own mind to let down it's ego censorships; the strange art of paradigm shift.

The observable universe would appear to have spherical symmetry around the observer reaching off into infinity. We observe a limited frequency range that just so happens to sustain us in what is the ecosystem. The polarities for matter to vibrate are either slower and lower vibration or faster higher vibrational density.

Of facing ones fears, the rational and tangible ones, of every day, becoming desensitised to fears such as those mundane, the primal fear has to manifest itself elsewhere as it cannot simply go away, and, therefore, must be redirected. Fear is the primal drive that makes us respond to perceived social anarchy and act pre emptively in the world arena in order to assert power, to survive. The source of violence and it's aspect of necessity. Insofar as torturing somebody, there is the feeling of power but it serves no natural purpose or objective means.

Shadow work; of mixing with those Jungian shadow aspects in ourselves can refer to the paranormal insofar as the topic is heading in relation to ritual sensory deprivation and sensory overload from severe acts. If sadomasochism and physical and psychological violence are not desirable, then prolonged malevolent meditation combined with mirror gazing, till ones reflection and inner voice becomes bizarre, has revealed dark thoughtform entities in my experience, the air in the room turns to deadness and everything looks very very different. Severe sobriety in a low vibration is the altered state of consciousness we are after and will occur way after such rituals have been performed as the conscious mind must forget to what emerges from the dark unconsciousness.

At lower vibration we encounter fear based emotions and stimulating perceptions, whether we have a morbid threshold already is not important, what is important is that there are rituals to visit black intrusions into the psyche and thus manifest such perceptions. We as individuals have the power to look into the light of the world and see the darkness there, what is already all around but is hidden due to the prison of our conditioned beliefs.

The blackest aspect of the psyche, resides at the Jungian shadow, is the Thanatos which can reveal itself in hideous manifestation with the release of DMT from the pineal gland.

I am not sure if near death experiences are essential to have beforehand, but take care not to catalyse Sudden unexpected nocturnal death syndrome (SUNDS). \:D


Malfeasant Chaos magic.
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#57058 - 07/18/11 12:35 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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Being that our consciousness dies as we die, there is still the paranormal investigators that differentiate between a residual and an intelligent haunting. Residual being like a broken record, just playing the same part over and over again. Intelligent being the type that actually interacts with it's surroundings and the physical people around it.

But understand that I'm not trying to argue for or against the paranormal, but just stating some things that make me think.

 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Energy "dies"? I thought the principles of entropy imply that it simply moves from one system to another?


I think the energy of the living human being is what "moves" to that of the paranormal (other system).


Edited by LeftHandOvGod (07/18/11 12:37 PM)

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#57059 - 07/18/11 02:05 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Diavolo Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LeftHandOvGod
I think the energy of the living human being is what "moves" to that of the paranormal (other system).


When my cellphone battery runs out, did that energy move to that of the paranormal too?

D.

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#57071 - 07/18/11 10:24 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Dimitri]
The_Dark_F00L Offline
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Hello all. This is my first post EVER in the 600 club! Woot! Now to get on with it...

The paranormal, to me, is simply "that which can not be verified or measured at the moment." When it comes to the typical scenarios and assumptions of the paranormal - ghosts, ufos, evps, orbs, bigfoot, etc., I believe it is CRUCIAL to be skeptical. Some of these strange events and occurrences can easily be dismissed as hoaxes. I believe that the more a phenomenon occurs (especially within a specific location) the more attention it should be given.

Assuming that the evidence accumulated - pictures, evps, etc. - are verified as genuine, it is also crucial to measure the evidence, as well as can be expected, with what technology is currently at your disposal. Just because science can not verify an occurrence NOW doesn't mean it won't be able to LATER with better technology and scientific breakthroughs.

Personally, I also categorize certain quantum phenomenon as 'paranormal'. One such example of this is the infamous double-slit experiment.

Lastly, as far as Atheism and Theism is concerned, I don't consider myself 100% one or the other. I'm somewhere in between. I'm currently laying down my philosophies on thought forms and memetics. Perhaps that's for another post....or a youtube video.

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#57130 - 07/19/11 03:49 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The_Dark_F00L]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
One such example of this is the infamous double-slit experiment.

I take it you meant the subject of interference ? That's not really paranormal since there is a logical explanation for it.

Perhaps you meant another one? I have a vague guess which one but can't seem to recall its name.
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#57174 - 07/19/11 10:14 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
When my cellphone battery runs out, did that energy move to that of the paranormal too?

D.


Is your cell a living human being?

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#57177 - 07/19/11 10:21 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Diavolo Offline
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Does energy know how to differentiate?

If not; why would the energy of my battery not go to that of the paranormal?

If; how does it do that?

D.

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#57178 - 07/19/11 10:52 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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There is no seperatism, no phone or energy, only your perception of such things which do not exist in the existence terms defined by material causality, but as negation comes to abide within all things at death, would it not be so of life?

Solipsism is held as a sin by LaVeyans, correct? Would they pause to consider "what kind of solipsism" as to whether the cause of the universe would overflow outside of such an inverse God?

You know me Diavolo, I'm just good at recognising material causality through selective amnesia.

To forget all I will say is the only way to continue to look at the lie of light.

Alone in the deadness of it's unknown self, the universal mind is controlling everything beyond the evident illusion of what is preferential to its dream. It is the selective amnesia (waters of Lethe) which dawns appreciation of things thought previously unknown. The universal mind can only dream, and to be aware of this dream is of no consequence, for the will to end the cycle is all pervasive over what the dream regards as preferential.

But who am I to say such things and deny reality? I am a messenger of your own creation, explaining this to yourself. When the realisation comes to light all will instantaneously be as blackness, consuming all awareness faster than light would flee.

How do I stop this destruction of the universe? To think of this is how it happens. But do not worry, it already has. It alone is the deadness; the universal mind can only dream.
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#57179 - 07/19/11 11:08 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Diavolo Offline
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 Originally Posted By: LeftHandOvGod
I think the energy of the living human being is what "moves" to that of the paranormal (other system).


I'll cut this short and explain to you why the idea that after we die, the energy goes somewhere, is funky. Mind you, you're not the only one considering this option, I read it often.

The idea might work if our body was a closed system and upon dying, this contained energy would flow out to “somewhere”.

But our body isn't a closed system and when you think logical for a minute, you know that the very reason we eat is to gain new energy. This implies our body uses energy and needs food to replace this loss. So the energy in our body is not uniquely ours. If upon dying this energy would flow “somewhere”, it can be assumed it would flow there too, after "use" when living. Energy does not have some sort of consciousness deciding when it is the right time to go where.

So, let's assume for a moment each day of your life, you'll use as much energy as you absorb. This would imply that if you die at 70, in this "somewhere", there'd be about 25.000 times you in terms of energy.

That's a whole lot of you isn't it?

If I'm somehow wrong in this, feel free to point out.

D.

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#57180 - 07/19/11 11:21 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Damn Heg, you have lost me a bit with your post; maybe I can’t tell shit from Shinola in this particular instance, but what did you just say?

Are you trying to say that you’re a subjective idealist in the Bishop Berkeley mould?

Yes, I believe, the Doktor encouraged Satanist’s not to engage in solipsism as it could lead to a false perception or understanding of the intentions of others, a false perception or understanding of how others view me and the sort of importance they place on who I am, and what I do, and what role I play in their life.

What is this universal mind? Why would the universe be destroyed? The universe cannot be destroyed.

Could you put forward your metaphysical or ontological view in a few simply stated sentences.

Hmmm, are you the reincarnation of a wicked sort of George Berkeley?

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#57184 - 07/19/11 11:55 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Dimitri]
The_Dark_F00L Offline
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 Quote:
I take it you meant the subject of interference ? That's not really paranormal since there is a logical explanation for it.

Perhaps you meant another one? I have a vague guess which one but can't seem to recall its name.


No. I specifically meant the double-slit experiment. The explanation of it is pretty long, so I'll go ahead and link a video that puts it (as well as can be expected) in layman's terms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htSIjIyF9bU&feature=fvst

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#57185 - 07/20/11 12:00 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The_Dark_F00L]
Hegesias Offline
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Science always has a paradigm shattering effect that magic and occult practice can't achieve so well on it's own.

Gnosticism explained by quantum holography for example.
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#57232 - 07/20/11 07:49 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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Diavolo, I understand completely. I just hope I didn't come across as an ass in my last post. The reason I asked "Is your cell a living human being?" is because you know the cell battery died because of constant use. And yes I understand that food to the human body provides lost energy due to our every day activities, like that of a phone charger to a cell phone. I feel like a skeptic when it comes to the paranormal, because I have never experienced it myself. It just seems to be a very curious subject to me and I always question it. I just want some type of logical explanation to the "so-called" evidence of paranormal and ghostly apparitions.
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#57233 - 07/20/11 08:12 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Diavolo Offline
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One should always be skeptical about that which one can't prove.

The question what happens after we die is age old and ghost stories and afterlife assumptions are part of this. Most theories have fundamental flaws. What exactly transfers to the Twilight Zone? If it's energy, you encounter a problem as I mentioned before. If energy magically transfers there, it would imply the Twilight Zone would be filled with animals, plants and whatever lifeforms containing energy. One could even wonder if a dishwasher ends up there after breaking down.

Energy out of the question, the only thing left would be consciousness, something the ToS build their whole castle upon. Not that they're the only one, Buddhism for that matter builds upon identical quicksand. But for this option to be valid, consciousness needs to be separate from the brain while living. Like a parasite living of a host until this one dies. But again, that might have appeared plausible in the past but these days, neuroscience discovered enough evidence showing consciousness and the brain are inseparable and, as an example, damage to the brain can result in damage to the consciousness. Which again implies there is little hope for consciousness to survive after death.

We can only conclude that an afterlife is very unlikely.

D.

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#57238 - 07/20/11 10:18 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandOvGod Offline
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I see. I don't believe in the afterlife anyhow, and if "ghosts" were possible, I see them as just being in the physical world and nothing more.

So, what exactly do you think these "ghosts" are?

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#57239 - 07/20/11 10:33 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Diavolo Offline
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Imagination running wild.

Until some ghost visits me and convinces me it is more, I'll keep it at that.

D.

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#57258 - 07/21/11 07:31 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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Fucking with people who genuinely believe in paranormal is so fun though. They get so exited and like to be scared, there's not much harm in that unless they try and convince others all around them, even pathologically lying to themselves.

Oh, that's Christians, I outlined them by accident?

Imagine actually seeing a Jesus though, as a person, standing in your room. Absolutely terrifying, I'd step back and take a long look in the mirror with the realisation of schizophrenia.
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#57259 - 07/21/11 09:30 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
Jason King Offline
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para (beside) + normal (accepted) begs at least one question. What is normal? Often, the "paranormal" has served as the impetus to scientific revolution. Meaning, that which defies ordinary explanation via the dominant paradigm may still challenge that paradigm enough for the process to move forward.

For example, and in my own opinion, I feel that sleep paralysis as a measurable phenomenon explains at least two longstanding "paranormal" data: i.e. alien abduction and the succubus.

I love it when the data don't fit the model - it means I'll get a better model . . .

JK
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#57260 - 07/21/11 09:44 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
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Being familiar with sleep paralysis I have to agree with the link to alien abduction and the succubus.

There was a movie in the 80s called "The Entity" which probably has its origins in sleep paralysis.

D.

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#57270 - 07/21/11 01:04 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
toodarkpark Offline
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Coast to coast AM did an interesting series on this subject, even more interesting when people call in and tell their tales.
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#57276 - 07/21/11 04:12 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Jason King]
Hegesias Offline
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Posts: 725
I'd conjecture that humans will see the same hallucination because of the cultural paradigm, or similar abuse scenarios, hence, commonalities in Jungian shadow projections are likely in sleep paralysis encounters. A basic reaction to primal fear, the mind creates a visual and audio in accordance.

As for little grey skinned people with no clothes on? Probably the subconsciousness of grown men living in their mothers basement, housing necropaedophilia tendencies. or something to do with the holocaust visuals effecting the guilt ridden, guilt and negative emotions creating a revenge from "aliens". Dead emotionless eyes, grey skin, skinny, naked. Simply visuals of the holocaust and Nazi UFO memes all warped together; a hypnagogic admixture. Over analysing for fun sake, but I'm probably not far off.

To contrast on a serious note.

As hinted at by Diavolo. More severe is a Meron; a type of incubus. Meron is a folkloric Jamaican entity, but I doubt its consigned to that country. Apparently the memories, or collective memories, of a rapist, haunts women. The ordeal happens in sleep paralysis and can cause near death experience symptoms or even Sudden Unexplained Nocturnal Death Syndrome. I 'd suggest that malevolent sexual energy/tension projected by certain males over a period of time, especially in isolation, can culminate a resurfacing within previous victims psyche, and catalyse a hideous manifestation.

The capacity for the mind to perceive. It is this life which is the purest horror imaginable.
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#57348 - 07/22/11 05:10 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Dimitri]
magnitudo Offline
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I think that there is one man or woman that has not arrived yet to know the true paranormal way and who yes instead. Paranormal begins with an application in yoga exerxises to raise the kundalini energy from the bottom of your body to the head. Then You can see in the time and in the locations. The generale rule is that this becomes to make good in your life and to be better yourself. I like very much my paranormal visions that aren't allucinations, as say the psychiatrists instead (in some cases it is possibile that it is true).
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#57354 - 07/22/11 05:49 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: magnitudo]
Hegesias Offline
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What I do find paranormal, or rather, "abnormal", is peoples ability to lose sight of both simpler and more effective means, instead, they place heavy introspection on lesser experience.

Physical fitness and conditioning is the only way to lifelong health, to surpassing limits, to be fighting fit and confident of maximal efficiency. Yoga is ineffectual due to being inaction but for relaxation and stretching, and maybe some pelvic floor exercises, the effects of which are of collateral consequence to a real workout.

Hit the weights hard enough and you'll feel euphoric, and afterwards, you'll relax naturally and fully, rather than trying to force relaxation with yoga.

Kundalini for the purpose of attaining bliss? Just sounds like self control with a little stimulation appreciated and perceived as profound due to prolonged inaction and lack of stimulation to body and mind, weak, like pot smoking and thinking your mind is profoundly fascinating due to fixation and over assessment. I could be wrong, I just prefer direct stimulation, relaxation comes naturally after.
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#57377 - 07/22/11 07:51 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
Paranormal begins with an application in yoga exerxises to raise the kundalini energy from the bottom of your body to the head.


The western portrayals of yoga, even those of so-called "occultists", have been rather shallow and limited to either asana (stretching poses) or "kundalini tantra" (usually presented as a simple chakra meditation and nothing more).

Yoga in its authentic entirety is a robust discipline involving exhaustive spiritual doctrines and complex rituals revealed only to initiates. Some sects involve extreme asceticism and self-sufficiency, as well as black magic and necrophagic rites. It also requires unwavering worship and devotion to the Deities, and the contemplation of death and nondualism.

 Quote:
Hit the weights hard enough and you'll feel euphoric, and afterwards, you'll relax naturally and fully, rather than trying to force relaxation with yoga.


Exactly. Yoga was never supposed to be about "relaxation". But I do agree that physical fitness is of far more immediate worth than any mental discipline.
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#57547 - 07/25/11 01:36 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
magnitudo Offline
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I think that what you say is right. The first way is the street of exercise of the body and running. The young generations are too less in power because they study too much and little exercise. You have power if you have strenght and then you will be over the lines. Only in a second time you can study how have the power of your mind and in magic. Magic is paranormal. But I advice this invisible way only if a person doesn't have psychological trouble or have resolved them. Do you think that psychiatrist have reason sayng that paranormal doesn't exist? And the UFO's exist? h.s.

Edited by magnitudo (07/25/11 01:38 PM)
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#57564 - 07/25/11 10:54 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: magnitudo]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: magnitudo
... And the UFO's exist? h.s.

As I recently wrote in a U.S. intelligence community paper:

 Originally Posted By: M.A.A.
... The story begins in Nazi Germany (where else?), wherein first the Luftwaffe and later the SS sponsored a number of capers into experimental technologies. The most [in]famous and successful of these were of course the V1 & V2 guided missiles. Less well-known but quite verified were the breakthrough jet and rocket fighter aircraft, the ME-262 and ME-163]. Secret to the point of legend was a program entitled “the Bell”], whose purpose was to develop a new propulsion system based upon reaction to the Earth’s gravitational and magnetic fields by a twin-counterrotating gyroscope spinning at speeds so extreme as to require specially-developed liquid coolant, somewhat similar to that required by Cray supercomputers. Hence the “Bell” was not an antigravity device per se, but rather one which overcame gravity through generation of a powerful gyroscopic field. The intended eventual application of this system was an aircraft engine utilizing this same “plasma torus” principle, which would have required a circular vehicle to house the centrifuge, and of course - since it would be gyroscopically-driven - neither wings nor tail: a “flying saucer” capable of tremendous speeds and instantaneous direction-changes. Just coincidentally the Germans happened to be working on several such saucer designs before V-E Day brought all this to a halt ...

________________________________
Michael A. Aquino, LTC, MI (Ret.)
U.S. Army Space Intelligence Officer 35B3Y
J2X, HQ U.S. Space Command 1990-1994
Cheyenne Mountain, Colorado


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#57573 - 07/26/11 11:26 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Hegesias Offline
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Wouldn't it be funny if space exploration lead to finding a civilisation with a likeness to our own, only to contract each others communicable but completely unfamiliar bacteriums leading to annihilation of both worlds. I was hoping this would happen when NASA was searching for water on the moon, I figured the moon looks quite fucked by something, either immolation by extreme heat or an all consuming bacterium, that lays dormant.

I don't even think NASA went to the moon, it's just a way to extort money for other agenda's, but also to test huge nuclear missile prototypes off the launch pad in plain sight.

I'd posit that if there are "observers" from the observable universe or otherwise imperceivable dimension, it's just another parasitism of consciousness inhabiting the same old subatomic particles.

I've always thought it would be funny if we were met with aliens and they offered us technology to solve all our problems, this being seen as arrogant, we tell them to go away for trying to imposition us with dependency.

Surely if there appeared a huge UFO mothership like in science fiction, there would be people standing in awe and amazement, then we fire a nuclear missile at it sending it crashing to the earth destroying lots of us as well, simply for it being way suspect and deliberately ambiguously uncertain.

What people don't seem to get is that higher intelligence is beyond morality. As far as our thinking can muster, we could send out a declaration of war to intergalactic invaders, or we could send out a declaration of peace, the peace declaration would show intent to do them harm whereas the declaration of war would show fear and under confidence.

Now in relation to the paranormal: We could think for one solitary moment about whether extraterrestrials are even solid, the nature of quantum holography and consciousness, the subatomic mechanics of extraterrestrials could be all around and we are them, we are the aliens, the consciousness parasitising quantum field energy that perceives itself as living matter, who knows what else from the nether regions of the unseen gets occasionally mixed in with our perceptions?
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#57621 - 07/27/11 01:34 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
ta2zz Offline
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As Satanist it is easy for us to be passionate towards the things we oppose, while at times we forget to be just as passionate towards the things we appreciate. I have not much to add other than I actually enjoyed this last post.

Deadly germs in or from space are interesting.

http://www.technologyreview.com/biomedicine/19425/

http://articles.cnn.com/2000-11-24/tech/...loon?_s=PM:TECH

http://articles.cnn.com/2006-06-02/tech/red.rain_1_blood-cells-theory-samples?_s=PM:TECH

 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
I don't even think NASA went to the moon, it's just a way to extort money for other agenda's, but also to test huge nuclear missile prototypes off the launch pad in plain sight.

There are some very big questions that have gone unanswered. It's also not like we cannot understand the reason such deception could have been used.

Nasa's tether experiment video always reminded me of a slide of microbes under a microscope as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EL0nLZI5Dw&feature=related

 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
Now in relation to the paranormal: We could think for one solitary moment about whether extraterrestrials are even solid, the nature of quantum holography and consciousness, the subatomic mechanics of extraterrestrials could be all around and we are them, we are the aliens, the consciousness parasitising quantum field energy that perceives itself as living matter, who knows what else from the nether regions of the unseen gets occasionally mixed in with our perceptions?

These are very interesting thought provoking ideas indeed.

Paranormal umm I tattoo a guy who is in close contact with Lorraine Warren retired-Demon hunter. ;\)

~T~
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#57622 - 07/27/11 01:53 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Hegesias]
Meph9 Offline
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If NASA did not land ot the Lunar Surface where did the atros really go?

Since the landing happened fusion reactors hadn't been finely tuned.

the space uses simplistic convention propulsion systems like a giant bottle-rocket

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#57657 - 07/27/11 06:48 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
magnitudo Offline
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Great historical description the your, Michael. And I ask to myself if the flying saucers that I see and photograph on my head from long time ago everywhere I go are terrestrial ships or alien's ships. I suspect that they are aliens because the proximity to me that I am only a stranger in the very interesting 600 club.
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#58414 - 08/21/11 01:07 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: magnitudo]
Ember Offline
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So here is my two cents on the subject. And this mainly deals with just ghosts since they are my favorite subject in the paranormal.
There has already been a lot of talk about energy so that is where I'll start. In my own humble opinion, I believe the world works by energy. Everything is explained by energy. Our energy is constantly moving throughout our life, not just after we die. Auras. That might be something that some of you don't put much consideration in, however I do. I think our auras are much like a candle flame. Like the flame, they constantly radiate energy into the world around them. The flame from the candle warms the air around it with its shed energy. This energy drifts off of us, settling like psychic dust in the subtle world. This trace of our passing will linger for some time until the energy is picked up by one of the currents of subtle reality. Once it gets caught in one of the ebbs or flows, the energy is moved and agitated, reduced to a neutral state again, and eventually recycled into the greater whole. Not all of the energy that we leave in the world around us is simply cast-off detritus. Some of the energy fingerprints we leave on objects and places are imprints that we very actively put there. By attaching special significance to certian places or things, we actually invest some of our energy into that location or object. Whether we are conscious of the process or not, the more attention and emotion we focus on something, the deeper the impression that we leave upon it. The candle flame will warm a room regardless of whether anything is there to receive its warmth and its light. However, a flame can also be used to warm someone's hands, or it can be used more directly on an object, to burn a mark into it. How close something is to the flame and how long it is exposed to its energy determines how deeply it will be burned.

Now here is my overall point. Let's say your grandmother just passed away. You've inherited her house and a good portion of her personal effects. After a few weeks in the home you start noticing things that seem a little strange. For instance, every time you walk past the kitchen, it seems like you can see your grandmother standing over the stove. You also get a strong sense of her radiating from her favorite rocking chair. It is very likely there is no ghost and your grandmother has already moved on. The feelings and impressions that you're picking up on in the house are simply lingering echoes of your grandmother's energy.
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#58419 - 08/21/11 04:14 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
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 Originally Posted By: Ember
In my own humble opinion, I believe the world works by energy. Everything is explained by energy.

In a word, yes, but the Einstein-train is seriously off the track on this, resulting in all of its ridiculously impossible extensions & consequences. Google "zero point energy" to discover the beginnings of what the Einsteinians have been missing. If you like books, pick up this delightful little number, whose Part 2: Chapters #4-7 really rips into the physics here and updates Nick Cook's groundbreaking The Hunt for Zero Point.

The Order of the Trapezoid has been having fun with Nikola Tesla for decades, and it's great to see the taboos and censorship finally starting to unravel.

"MAD LABS: NIKOLA TESLA"
- by Michael A. Aquino VI°, GM.Tr.
Runes #I-2, September 1983
Order of the Trapezoid
Temple of Set

One thing missing from modern Sci-Fi movies is the really great Mad Lab scene. You know, where the brilliant-but-crazed doctor in the white coat pulls a switch and all of a sudden a score of Tesla coils, van de Graaf generators, and Jacob's ladders start doing their thing to the tune of several million volts of fireworks. It's a close race between Rotwang in Metropolis and Dr. Frankenstein in Frankenstein as to who has the better-equipped Mad Lab. But at least we know who had the best real life ML - an enigmatic gentleman by the name of Nikola Tesla.

If you're a past subscriber to Magistra Wendall's Magic Cat, you may have caught her review of a Radio Electronics article on Tesla. And if you're familiar with the "Elektrischen Vorspiele" as described in Anton LaVey's Satanic Rituals, you'll also know that to really make that ritual sizzle, you have to have lots of ML gear blazing away in the background.

Nikola Tesla was an electrical genius who flourished at the turn of the century, just after the industrial revolution made things like vacuum tubes and machined motor parts possible, and before the field became so commercial and standardized that wild & weird trips into expensive & unknown experimental territory were curtailed.

Tesla pioneered alternating current (AC) devices to the fury of Thomas Edison, who had staked his future on direct current (DC) systems. The "war of the currents" reached an extreme when Edison paid street boys to round up stray dogs and cats so that they could be dramatically electrocuted in public demonstrations of the "danger" of AC. Nevertheless AC triumphed, which is why you've got it coming out of your wall sockets today. Tesla is now officially (per a U.S. Supreme Court decision) credited as the inventor of radio, bumping Marconi's claim to same.

In March of 1895 Tesla's New York City ML, in which he had astounded such notables as Mark Twain and John Astor, caught fire and burned to the ground. Undaunted, Tesla moved to Colorado Springs and built another ML with a 145' mast topped by a 3' metal sphere. When fired up, this little gem could send artificial lightning arcs to rods as far away as 12 miles. Biographer Margaret Cheney recounts:

 Quote:
Nights when experiments were being made with the magnifying transmitter the prairie sky exploded with sound and color. Even the earth seemed alive, and the crash of thunder from the spark gap could be heard for miles. Butterflies were sucked into the vortex of the transmitter coil, which was 52' in diameter. Awed spectators at some distance from the station told of seeing tiny sparks flying between grains of sand and between their heels and the ground when they walked. They said that at 300' away, arcs an inch long could be drawn from grounded metal objects. Horses grazing peacefully half a mile away would suddenly go berserk, feeling shocks through their metal shoes.

During one particularly wild ML session, Tesla managed to overload the Colorado Springs power station, blowing out its main generator and blacking out the entire city. The authorities, perhaps understandably, declined to allow him to hook into the reserve generator.

Returning to the east coast with volumes of shocking and electrifying notes, Testa coaxed Pierpont Morgan to fund an even more ominous ML out on Long Island, consisting of a 187' tower capped by a mushroom-shaped bank of electrodes 100' in diameter. Funding ran out before Tesla could fire this baby up, which was probably just as well for the peace of mind of Long Islanders. Just testing the tower was enough to light up the night sky for miles around.

Nikola Tesla was a no-nonsense materialist who described human beings as "meat machines" and felt that every notion of thought could be traced to sensory input. Hence the "soul" was simply the sum total of the brain's information and perished upon the body's death. But Tesla was troubled by ESP in the form of what he called "cosmic pain", of which he wrote:

 Quote:
A very sensitive and observant being, with his highly developed mechanism all intact, and acting with precision in obedience to the changing conditions of the environment, is endowed with a transcending mechanical sense, enabling him to evade perils too subtle to be directly perceived. When he comes in contact with others whose controlling organs are radically faulty, that sense asserts itself and he feels the 'cosmic pain'.

At a lecture in London in 1892 Tesla displayed a vacuum tube so sensitive that it would react to almost any movement - even the stiffening of Tesla's hand muscles - in its vicinity. This raises the interesting idea of hypersensitive electronic sensors being used to detect and record phenomena during magical Workings which may be outside the range of human senses.

Anton LaVey's experiments led him to conclude that an ionized atmosphere greatly enhanced the effectiveness of LBM/GBM Workings in which materializations or sensory breakthroughs into unusual manifestations of existence were sought. In true ML tradition he favored primitive and spectacular gadgets such as a Jacob's ladder that would give off a sharp crack and a good puff of ozone to boot. You can achieve mild ionization with ultraviolet light tubes, and there are also ion generators on the market which will serve up negative ions aplenty. Be careful and don't toast yourself.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

Cheney, Margaret, Tesla: Man Out of Time. Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, 1981. Definitive biography, also available in paperback. Includes a good bibliographical resource section.

Tesla, Nikola, Experiments with Alternate Currents of High Potential and High Frequency. Hawthorne, California: Omni Publications, 1979. Contains the description & plans of the hypersensitive ghost tube.

Martin, Thomas Commerford, The Inventions, Researches, and Writings of Nikola Tesla. Highly technical treatment, recommended for advanced ML magicians only.

Soyka, Fred with Edmonds, Alan, The Ion Effect. New York: E.P. Dutton, 1977. Bantam paperback later printed. The ropes of air-ionization.

On the Temple of Set Reading List, see especially #19I/J and #22L.

If you're Black Magician enough, or just crazy enough, to want to build your own Mad Lab, here's where to start. Make sure your fire insurance is paid up.


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#58427 - 08/21/11 07:02 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Ember Offline
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The vaccum seems interesting. But I don't see how it relates to what I was talking about. I can see where it would make my vague statment of 'energy explaining everything' and add some questions to it. I'll research it further. But, who is the author of the book you mentioned, "This Delightful Little Number"? I tried googleing it and just got a bunch of resoultes about fashion.
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#58428 - 08/21/11 07:10 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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The problem with ghosts explaining as lingering energy is that if it would be true, there would be a load of "appearances" everywhere we live.

Have you any idea how many lifeforms lived in certain areas since life appeared on Earth? By the same logic of seeing one's grandmother energy linger somewhere, we'd have to see loads of other people, animals and even dinosaurs. Ghosts would be a quite natural and constantly visible phenomena.

D.

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#58429 - 08/21/11 07:37 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
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There have been claims to animal 'hauntings'. But what you are failing to get is the amount of energy needed to 'burn' an impression into a given area. Just everyday walking through a place or living somewhere for years is not enough. And energy is not stagnant. It would eventually move on. But of course, the more energy present, the longer it takes. And you also have to remember. The grandchild moving into the house would know the 'feel' the energy of his/her grandmother well and 'pick up' on it better than a stranger or even a distant relative would. As humans, we tend to not be very aware of energy. And for someone such as yourself who doesn't believe in it, you would ignore it. I know that sounds like a very convient scapegoat and maybe it is. But this is what makes sense to me. Not going to say I am unwilling to learn about something else. We can only explain our reality by what we know of it. And if someone can give me something that makes me question what I have believed for years, I'll applaud you.
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#58431 - 08/21/11 07:44 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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What energy are you burning? There is no specific "you" energy in you since you replace it daily. So what you are burning is energy which comes from food.

And if energy burning was sufficient, a television, or dishwasher should have a much clearer "presence" after removal than something living and moving constantly.

D.

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#58432 - 08/21/11 07:47 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
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Much like there are different forms of vibrations in this world. Some you are aware of, some you are not. There are differnt 'frequtcies' of energy. Energy you get from food and energy you pass to maggots once you die is physical energy, the 'you' energy is psychic energy. And the energy from applicaces is called electricity.
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#58434 - 08/21/11 07:50 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Ember Offline
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And on a side note. EMF (electromagnetic field) and it is produced by electrically charged objects. It has the properties of an electric field (an electric voltage gradient in space) and a magnetic field. Power lines and appliances can generate a time-varying EMF (because our electricity is AC and cycles at 60 Hz), while the earth's magnetic field is a static field. This is the presence of the appliances you spoke of. It actually has phsical effects on humans and is often mistake for ghost activity.
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#58435 - 08/21/11 07:57 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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But now you're just making things up. There is no "psychic" energy.

We are no transformer turning normal energy into "psychic" energy, assuming you imply something "supernormal" with this.

You're adapting things to fit your belief, not questioning if your belief fits reality.

If energy burns into its environment and lingers after it is gone, Chernobyl should have a clear reactor showing at night because what that one produced and burned into its environment during those years (before the meltdown) can never be attained by any human energy source.

D.

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#58437 - 08/21/11 08:13 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
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Psycich energy, explained by C.G. Jung, look it up. Jung is also the one who talked about the collective unconscious and archetypes. He is a world renowned psychologists who orginaly studied under Frued until they parted ways in 1912.

And I said there are different forms of energy. Psychic energy and electricty are two different things. Never said energy transformed. You're adapting your interpretation of my words so you don't get but hurt by a newbie.
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#58438 - 08/21/11 08:19 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Ember Offline
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I wasn't familiar with Chernobyl until you just mentioned it so I looked it up. It was a nuclear powerplant the blew up. Still much different kind of energy. It left a physical impression on the world and like I said about psychic energy, it moved on. I am sure the radiation left an impression on something, maybe a water iquana will now become Godzilla. You are refusing to step back and think about what I am saying. Be objective. After all most opinions that are suppose to be based on knowledge are based upon interpretations first. Then you back up the interpretations with facts. Stop trying to tear down my interpretation and give me some facts supporting yours.
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58439 - 08/21/11 08:25 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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What facts? I'm not making claims, I'm deconstructing yours, so it is actually you who has to provide the facts.

Look this is what you claim. Humans produce "special" energy which can linger at the places they frequented before they died. This is the only sort of energy doing this. But to make it even more special, not all humans linger after their death because else ghost sightings would be a very common phenomena, only a couple do and only at certain moments and only visible by some people.

That's your claim. Doesn't it sound slightly "made up?". I mean, which part at all can be explained decently?

D.


Edited by Diavolo (08/21/11 08:26 PM)

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#58440 - 08/21/11 09:05 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
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Loc: Mississippi
Humans are not the only beings who produce psychic energy. And no it is not the only sort of energy that does that. Radio waves do it.

Do you believe in things like chakras and chi. It is the same type of energy. Of course if you don't believe in that then you won't believe in what I am saying. Does that make me false? no.
My I quote Nietzsche, 'Everything is subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevals at a given time is a function of power not truth.'

Let me put it into terms you may be more familiar with. In ritual, my concept so far is that ritual a psychodrama. Duh, obvious. I believe the majority say that if you need a particular ritual to really work like say a destruction spell, you should not vent your anger and frustration until after your work so you have a more emotionaly charged experience. What charges that emotion? What is it that takes that emotion, that pent up frustration and sends it? The very energy I am talking about. Your 'special' energy. And if something can charge something then it must be able to vary the charge.


Jung regarded the psychic energy as a basic life-force which would manifest itself as needed (eating, moving, thinking, sex, remembering, etc.) not concentrating through childhood in various body zones (oral, anal, genital) as Freud envisaged. The psychic energy resembled physical energy: it could be exchanged with the external world in muscular effort or ingestion of food, but otherwise remained as a reservoir to be used for thought, sexual activity, artistic creation and so on.

I am not going to run through every way of saying it I can to make you see my point. You don't have to. This is just my opinion like I said in the begining.
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"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58441 - 08/21/11 09:29 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Again, the only energy humans radiate into their environment is by heat loss, movement etc. The only energy that is stored in humans is in fat and minerals. This is, evidently, a backup for when they don't take in new energy.

Any special energy should be explained with a special explanation. If it was there, one should be able to detect it and it would be known to us. Thinking it is there because we like it to be there does not provide any evidence at all it is actually there.

The energy of humans that leaks into their environment is not something special so other energy leaking should produce similar effects as you claim to happen. Why does a radiator not leave an "imprint" after removal? These are quite evident questions which can't simply be dismissed by each time inventing something "special" again.

Why do not all humans that died leave their lingering energy? Why is it not always seen? Again, quite logical questions.

What you do this far is not explaining anything but add more and more that can't be explained and as such, only complicate it further.

So instead of embracing people challenging our ideas, as you claimed yourself, you prefer to hide deeper and deeper into obscurity. You try to avoid anything deconstructing your belief.

D.

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#58444 - 08/21/11 10:19 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Do you believe in things like chakras and chi. It is the same type of energy. Of course if you don't believe in that then you won't believe in what I am saying. Does that make me false? no.


Chakras and chi have nothing to do with each other, much less Jung or radio waves. You're just pulling exotic-sounding concepts from foreign cultures you don't understand.

 Quote:
What charges that emotion? What is it that takes that emotion, that pent up frustration and sends it?


That would be the chemicals in your hypothalamus.

 Quote:
There are differnt 'frequtcies' of energy. Energy you get from food and energy you pass to maggots once you die is physical energy, the 'you' energy is psychic energy. And the energy from applicaces is called electricity.


Those categories have nothing to do with frequency. "You" energy is meat. Meat energy. You are made of meat, ingesting calories to produce chemicals in your brain that make you think. When meat gone, you gone. You are chemicals. There is no Heaven. Have a nice day.
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#58445 - 08/21/11 10:24 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
I explained all of that.
I told you about impressions. I said all humans do do this just in various degrees. All living organisms do this. There is a difference in a living oragnism and a radiator but I even gave you EMF. Which is the impression a radiator can make.

Psychic energy is learned by every psychology student in every psychology class today. That is where I learned about it. I gave you a real life person with real life theories. The defintion I got was from my psychology text book directly, that I use in my class at collage.

I offered for you to give me other explinations. I even said I would applaud you if you could convience me otherswise. All you have said is that there is no way my 'special' energy can exist. Why can't it? Because you don't understand it? Because you can't concieve how this could be possible? The only reason why my opinion should be considered illogical is if you can logicaly prove it wrong. Do that.

Lets get a little deeper. Science since you believe psychology is still a psuedo-science. Quantom Physics.
(copied this from a link I provided to you)
Quantum physics is a branch of science that deals with discrete, indivisible units of energy called quanta as described by the Quantum Theory. There are five main ideas represented in Quantum Theory:

-Energy is not continuous, but comes in small but discrete units.
-The elementary particles behave both like particles and like waves.
-The movement of these particles is inherently random.
-It is physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time. The more precisely one is known, the less precise the measurement of the other is.
-The atomic world is nothing like the world we live in.

What that basicaly means is, energy does a hell of a lot more than radiate heat from out bodies.

Do some research. I am not hiding behind anything. I was trying to explain something to you on a very basic level. I am not going to give you a step by step on quantum physics, Jung's research, or anything else.

Here is a link for you to shift through if you want
http://www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-encyclopedia/psychic-energy
http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/science/physics_quantum.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/3487/qp.html

Here is a book
http://www.jstor.org/pss/186758

And just for your enjoyment
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-...ychic-phenomena
_________________________
"Nay!" cried death. "I am neither good nor evil. I am but a force. I do what I must."

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#58446 - 08/21/11 10:43 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem is that all energy either produced or lost by the body is well known and none of it is "special". So anything "losing" the same sort of energy should show the same sort of behavior.

You throw in something "special" which apparently is known by psychologists but not by scientists which is a strange claim not? The problem is that people "claiming" something are not necessarily right and that their claim, or others believing that claim does not equal evidence.

I know enough of QM to know it does not support any of this.

All I ask is; give me facts, not unsupported explanations. There's enough science out there, surely there must be proof of this energy and its capacities. If there is none, isn't all this simply faith?

D.

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#58447 - 08/21/11 10:54 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Adding to this, let me go with you in this and assume you are right about that energy. Then you still can't explain why it is not a normal phenomena considering the billions of people that died during the last decades.

Let me give you an example, I have a mattress here which belonged to an old dude and on which he actually died. According your logic, that very object he spent most of his time on and radiated most of his energy. Why did I never see him?

Also, if you make claims, I do not need to disprove them. You actually are the one having to provide a compelling argument or evidence.

D.

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#58449 - 08/21/11 11:22 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
Tell me why my opinion is so far fetched. I am being honest in saying that. I know you say it is because it does not happen every day when I believe it does and you wonder why people aren't seeing ghosts everywhere. My answer to that question why ghosts are not everywhere is because this energy moves. And it isn't the person themselves that is moving around, it is their energy. The energy does not belong to one person. Everyone's energy belongs to everything. I believe that this is the extreme energy that created the big bang. And with this theory everything about the world makes sense to me. I came here hoping to find knowledge old and new. You are extremely set on your views, so why do you see things the way you do? Why is my energy non existante to you. What is said anywhere that there is only physical energy that you consume. I like to completely understand things that is why I have worried about this for so long. And also like I said earlier, you can only make of your reality what you know of it.
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#58450 - 08/21/11 11:30 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL


This has nothing to do with "life force" or anything of the sort. It does not address the concept of "psychic energy" as existing outside of human consciousness or influencing reality in a quantum manner.



An amusing page, but still irrelevant to your argument. It deals solely with ESP phenomena, which even if it was true, does not imply the existence of any "life force" governing biota.

 Quote:
What that basicaly means is, energy does a hell of a lot more than radiate heat from out bodies.


Those rules, and quantum physics, have absolutely nothing to do with your aforementioned idea of "psychic energy".

You're trying to paste together a heap of unrelated concepts you don't seem to understand very well.
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#58451 - 08/21/11 11:45 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm not set in my views but that doesn't imply I just consider every opinion as valid. There is more needed than sounding good for me to seriously consider it.

It is far fetched because everything we know does tell us otherwise. So why would we assume science is wrong about exactly this while we accept it to be right about so many others things? During the last 50k years, it is assumed about 106 billion humans were born. A hundred billion of them died and none ever came back. Even if we'd take the few ghost sightings as valid, they would be an extremely small % of all dead people. It can't be explained by energy “fading" since too many of the ghost sightings are people of quite some years ago. So logically, every city should be filled by recently deceased. It can't be explained by energy moving because it's a shitload of energy and where does it move to?

So what is the most plausible answer? That the rare ghost-sightings have probably little to do with ghosts or lingering energy and that the whole myth build around it is filled with vague and non-explanatory arguments.

Everything you claimed is vague, now even adding this is the same sort of energy creating the Big Bang but that's not different from me claiming Santa Claus is real. It's just a proclamation of faith, nothing more. Everything that makes it “feel” real is the desire it to be real. That's all.

D.

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#58453 - 08/22/11 12:00 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
It is far fetched because everything we know does tell us otherwise. So why would we assume science is wrong about exactly this while we accept it to be right about so many others things?


It's not that conventional science is "wrong" about this-- it simply doesn't address it at all. Yes, one can posit that there is a certain threshold of science where the apparent laws of Newtonian physics breaks down, but the existence of a "grey area" in knowledge doesn't give a person license to fill it with with whatever nonsense their egos compel them to.

The arguments presented here simply don't hold enough water, or have any underlying connection for that matter. Ember is not actually proposing any systematic methodology for these theories, merely using vague buzzwords like "life-force", "energy", and "vibrations", with some disparate New-Agey terms thrown in to make it seem spiritual.
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#58454 - 08/22/11 12:14 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course there is no science in "afterlife" because from what science knows, the idea is just not plausible. It's pretty hard for a science to develop upon something which provides nothing it can develop upon. But most of what is suggested as an argument we know isn't affirmed by any science and actually does not behave at all as suggested.

But by constantly inventing something new one does not make anything more probably. I can keep adding special exceptions too trying to claim god, Santa Claus or the unicorns to be true.

But that's not really the way it is done and that is actually being "set in their views" because instead of considering the option it might not be true, everything possible is done to make it remain true.

D.

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#58455 - 08/22/11 12:47 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Ember Offline
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Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
What I am trying to talk about is something that I have talked about with many other people. I know I am not getting something right but I think it is how I am presenting it. The energy I am talking about I have read about in several occult books and I am not just making up as I go. I don't believe in an afterlife. If that is why you put that in your message. Let me look at a few things more I know what I am thinking and I have seen it talked about in other threads on this site maybe I just have something backwards. I am not set in my views I am just not getting them out right and I feel like you aren't understanding what I am talking about.
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#58459 - 08/22/11 02:15 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
All your other bullshit aside, I will simply address this:

 Quote:
The energy I am talking about I have read about in several occult books and I am not just making up as I go.


Just because you read about it in a "Occult book" doesn't make it true. Sure, you might not be making it up but that says nothing about the reliability of your source(s).

You sound like any number of flakes I have come across while slumming it in the Haight-Ashbury area in San Francisco. I couldn't take them seriously either.
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#58467 - 08/22/11 09:52 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Energy is not a 'thing'

Energy is defined as the ability to do work. That's it.

All else is mystical hubba bubba.
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#58470 - 08/22/11 10:32 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I guess what I'm getting at is that such thinking is a reflection of anthropocentric prejudice (there I go with that damned word again...). Basically, humans tend to view the universe with rose-tinted glasses, egotistically thinking that themselves and their thoughts somehow merit cosmic importance.

This is where we get ideas like geocentrism, where the universe revolves around us, and creationism, where the everything in the universe was made only 6,000 years ago for human exploitation.

Claiming that human thoughts (which are abstracts, not things in themselves) are so special they merit their own special type of "energy" that can affect the universe nonphysically is simply falling into this trap. We'd all love to believe it in a heartbeat, but without any substantial explanations it will always remain in the realm of speculation.

We've gone through a long history of outdated explanations of the universe-- animism, theism, hermeticism, spiritism, etc. The idea of some quantum "life force" is really just another last-ditch attempt at salvaging this legacy. This is why such people can't resist dressing up their half-baked theories with mystical terms, even though they are being grossly misappropriated. They simply want an excuse to believe that they and their thoughts "matter".
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#58471 - 08/22/11 11:13 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 200
Loc: High Peak, UK
Hi Zebu

"...........Basically, humans tend to view the universe with rose-tinted glasses, egotistically thinking that themselves and their thoughts somehow merit cosmic importance."

The Universe only exists in the way it does because that's the way that we see it; we are the "storytellers" of the Universe & without that story being told would it have ever existed? At best you could say that all the dramas of the Universe played out to empty seats.

"This is where we get ideas like geocentrism, where the universe revolves around us, and creationism,"

Putting creationism into the mix does give it a rather cranky view but it's not the only way of looking at geocentrism; if you accept that the horizon of the Universe is 13.5 billion years that is the boundary of the Universe that has meaning to us, if there is anything beyond it then it will be meaningless to us. But whichever way you look in the sky with whatever powerful telescope you may have, the 13.5 billion year boundary is there; the Universe looks the same wherever you look. That puts us right in the centre of the Universe, not with things rotating around us but in the centre nonetheless. It could be said that centrality on it's own gave us a priveliged position in the Cosmos.

Regards

W
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#58484 - 08/22/11 04:52 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: when7iseleven]
Ember Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/11
Posts: 17
Loc: Mississippi
I am just happy that someone finely understood what the hell I was trying to talk about. It doesn't mean anything to me if you don't agree with it. I don't just agree with everything I read. I base it upon my own experience and knowledge I have. If it doesn't go against it, I consider it. I just have always found this to be a good explination to me.
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#58495 - 08/22/11 11:08 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ember]
Squiddles Offline
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Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
I've never bought into ghosts or telekenisis other than for fun.

I can appreciate the idea that there is more to the world than meets the eye and that certain things may be extraordinarily hard to detect or measure - but over the course of decades and centuries science and technology have been very reliable sieves for separating fanciful notions from real entities.

Frankly, given that the same paranormal things have been rumored for thousands of years, I think if there were anything real to it by now we would have the technological knowledge to unambiguously prove it.
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#58496 - 08/22/11 11:41 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Squiddles]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
 Originally Posted By: Squiddles

Frankly, given that the same paranormal things have been rumored for thousands of years, I think if there were anything real to it by now we would have the technological knowledge to unambiguously prove it.


Think very closely about that idea of yours for a moment. Then think about this....we only know about 29% of the animal life that's in our oceans (as of 2010) or so they "think" http://www.oceanleadership.org/2011/worl...han-our-oceans/
....

And we only use between .01% to .10% of our brains or so they "think" http://scienceray.com/biology/human-biology/how-much-brain-do-we-use/
......

And we still don't know exactly how big the universe really is, which NASA even readily admits. So it is possible that we don't have the technology to prove or disprove ghosts yet.

I personally don't know if there is or isn't ghosts. I can't prove either way and obviously neither can science. At least not yet.
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#58498 - 08/23/11 12:14 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Nyte]
Squiddles Offline
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Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Nyte
......

And we still don't know exactly how big the universe really is, which NASA even readily admits. So it is possible that we don't have the technology to prove or disprove ghosts yet.

Oh there is puh-lenty we don't know! But these are things (ghosts, PK) people have claimed to have witnessed (i.e., locally detectable here on earth without technological aid) as real for millennia, yet there is never hard evidence that cannot be duplicated with some simple trickery.
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#58501 - 08/23/11 01:14 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Nyte]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
For the sake of rhetoric, yes, ghosts could be real for all we know, just like the Christian God could be real.

 Quote:

And we only use between .01% to .10% of our brains or so they "think" http://scienceray.com/biology/human-biology/how-much-brain-do-we-use/


This is actually a common misinterpretation-- the first thing our imagination jumps to are wild speculations like, "what if we used 100% we'd have PSYCHIC POWARS OMG!!!1" But we do actually "use" that other 99% of our brains, simply unconsciously-- for processes like memory, circulation, respiration, digestion, etc. Such processes are best left to the unconscious-- unless you want the added responsibility of remembering to keep your blood running 24/7.

 Quote:

And we still don't know exactly how big the universe really is, which NASA even readily admits. So it is possible that we don't have the technology to prove or disprove ghosts yet.


As a general principle, the more empirical physics we map out, the more impersonal the universe seems. Discovering proof of a personalized phenomenon like "ghosts" somewhere in the middle of our ego-crushing scientific enlightenment would be a rather surprising anomaly indeed.


Edited by The Zebu (08/23/11 01:16 AM)
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#58549 - 08/24/11 09:09 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: The Zebu]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 200
Loc: High Peak, UK
"..........As a general principle, the more empirical physics we map out, the more impersonal the universe seems"

I would take the opposite view in that the more science discovers, the more personal to us the Universe becomes; as Poincare stated in the 19th century "It is impossible that there is a reality totally independent of the mind that conceives it, sees it or senses it; even if it did exist it would be totally inaccessible to us", & as we discover/theorise on the Quantum nature of the Universe his words have incresing resonnance.

Whilst the Universe appears chaotic, there are no doubts of a line of evolving complexity that has led to a structure complex enough to perceive it. Science tells us that we are descended from a single mother who lived 150,000 years ago in Africa, our DNA shows us that we are descended from a common ancestor with all other living things. We are........everything is....woven out of the primordial hydrogen that filled the Universe 14 billion years ago.......which evolved from symmetrical radiation; & if there was a before, we evolved from beyond whatever before can mean. Our minds are voven into the very fabric of the Universe & only appear independent of it because of our viewpoint of the whole. If it were possible to see the smallest structure of the Universe at the same time as seeing the largest structure of the Universe & see it as the whole rather than from our middle sized viewpoint, we would see that we are not apart from the Universe; the physical reality is a manifestation of our act of perceiving it.



Edited by when7iseleven (08/24/11 09:10 AM)
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#58553 - 08/24/11 11:42 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: when7iseleven]
Squiddles Offline
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Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: when7iseleven
as Poincare stated in the 19th century "It is impossible that there is a reality totally independent of the mind that conceives it, sees it or senses it; even if it did exist it would be totally inaccessible to us"

When they finally photographed the far side of the moon in the 20th century, it showed a meteorite-battered surface - signs it had a real history during the billions of years it was unobservable/inaccessible to us.
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#58554 - 08/24/11 11:54 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Squiddles]
when7iseleven Offline
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Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 200
Loc: High Peak, UK
& Quantum Theory would ask was it really there before it was observed?

Sorry, that's a one liner.............I'll expand tomorrow when I've more time


Edited by when7iseleven (08/24/11 12:04 PM)
Edit Reason: no thought one liner
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#58558 - 08/24/11 12:42 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: when7iseleven]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Before you even go into this know that the reason a tennis ball does not "show" quantum behavior is its size. It's too damn big to be subject to those mechanics.

Even the neurons in your brain are too big to be subject to quantum behavior.

So whatever you'll propose to support the human eye seeing "ghosts" never is going to be big enough to be seen by us in the first place.

D.

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#58579 - 08/24/11 11:22 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Diavolo]
Nyte Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
I've written and re-written this reply 1/2 a dozen times and still feel I'm not quite explaining it how I "hear" it in my head but this reply I like best, so, here it goes....

If I was a New-Ager or a Christian I might jump to those conclusions, Zebu, but I didn't and don't. What I meant and obviously was missed, I don't think science nor technology has advanced enough to either explain or dismiss what people refer to as ghosts. At least not completely. There's a lot we don't know and a lot of learning we still have to do, which is what I was trying to point out because Squiddles claimed we should all ready be able to prove or disprove ghosts because of our current technologies. Science and technology may come back to make it very clear that because of what little bit we do use of our brains and, in which the way we use it, we simply fill in "gaps" (those moments when people "think/believe" they see ghosts) with figures that are familiar to us. Kind of like when ghost hunters think they‘ve heard words in all their recordings (our minds trying to make sense of sounds we hear). Our brains may actually cause those visions as a "comfort" or barrier of sorts for things that really, really bother us, or because subconsciously we were thinking about someone or something causing our eyes and/or mind to play tricks on us. I tend to lean more to that kind of an explanation myself, but I don't think technology and/or sciences have quite made it to the point of being able to prove or disprove things like ghosts just yet.

I probably won't see the answer either way in my life time, and to be honest, that doesn't bother me. As long as people are trying to figure out ways to prove and disprove ghosts it means that the human imagination will continue to develop more sciences and technologies to figure it out, and I'm good with that. When we become complacent in accepting whatever is told to us, no matter what, then I'll know we're literally "done" as the human race.

I don't see science as being ego-crushing nor the universe as being impersonal. I guess I just look at science and even the universe as they just ARE. I've dealt with medical sciences for 20+ years, kept track of some of the most incredible advancements through the years and we've been a part of some of the most changing advancements (even my own family on a bit more personal level). When the doctors can explain exactly how a body part works (the brain they still can't completely) and they can now affect it with medicines that we've helped test, it does become a bit more personal. Nothing ego-crushing in learning more, and possibly changing more, even possibilities of doing some good things along the way too. I may not be able to affect the entire universe but on a small scale we can affect it at our own level. So, I'm good with the sciences and technologies developing more along the way because when that stops, we've accepted everything we've been fed and no longer dream about what can be.

**Yes, I know. Forever the optimist I am......
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#58656 - 08/27/11 07:16 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Nyte]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think the most obvious approach to the ghost question is not a matter of science but one of perception.

Most people always try to find an answer by complicating the matter but I think the most simple one would be to wonder if it is not just perception messing up.

I have tinnitus, which is, to those unfamiliar with it, a rather annoying and constant noise I hear in my head. Several things can cause it and in some cases, it can be so annoying it drives people into suicide. But the amazing thing about it is there actually being no sound. It is a phantom sound which we hear as clearly as any other sound but just isn't there at all. Our brain makes this sound up. It is purely a defect in perception.

I think those rare occasions people perceive ghosts might have an as simple explanation. Perception messing up or compiling something wrongly. Evidently, what our brain compiles is, even when wrong, as real as anything else out there but at the same time it might not be.

It explains things much simpler and more elegant than those useless additions about everything which science simply doesn't perceive at all.

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#58657 - 08/27/11 08:08 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Squiddles]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Squiddles
When they finally photographed the far side of the moon in the 20th century, it showed a meteorite-battered surface ...

Not to hijack the thread, but this makes me wonder what all of the meteor craters are doing on the side of the Moon that always faces the Earth. I suppose one could attribute them all to "near-Earth-misses", but considering the size of many of them, not to mention the Earth's strong gravity as a close-near-miss passed by, I would feel a strong inclination to start rolling up my trouserlegs.
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#58661 - 08/27/11 09:07 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Nyte]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I suppose I meant to refer to astronomy, quantum physics, etc, that point to a vast reality outside of average human awareness. I did not mean "ego-crushing" in a negative way, but rather emphasize that a proper scientific perspective helps alleviate unwarranted self-importance.

I guess I just don't see why the "ghost" point is being pushed so much. If there is a scientific explanation for "ghosts", it will probably have more to do with some other misidentified natural phenomena, rather than the conventional idea of "psychic energy" caused by humans.
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#58672 - 08/28/11 02:55 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Squiddles Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

Not to hijack the thread, but this makes me wonder what all of the meteor craters are doing on the side of the Moon that always faces the Earth. I suppose one could attribute them all to "near-Earth-misses", but considering the size of many of them, not to mention the Earth's strong gravity as a close-near-miss passed by, I would feel a strong inclination to start rolling up my trouserlegs.

The moon's unique features result in a near-perfect 3 or 4 billion year time-lapse record of impacts including many from meteors that could not even penetrate the earth's atmosphere today, so it looks worse than it is. But who knows when and where something like the Tunguska event might happen again?


Like winning lottery numbers, there are still armageddon-esque asteroids out there, it's just a matter of whether our orbits intersect. Of course when something like that happens it will make nuclear war look like a paintball game!
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#58692 - 08/29/11 12:33 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Squiddles]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Squiddles
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Not to hijack the thread, but this makes me wonder what all of the meteor craters are doing on the side of the Moon that always faces the Earth. I suppose one could attribute them all to "near-Earth-misses", but considering the size of many of them, not to mention the Earth's strong gravity as a close-near-miss passed by, I would feel a strong inclination to start rolling up my trouserlegs.

The moon's unique features result in a near-perfect 3 or 4 billion year time-lapse record of impacts including many from meteors that could not even penetrate the earth's atmosphere today, so it looks worse than it is.

Sure, but this still doesn't explain all the Moon-hits, large and small, which would seem to have come "directly from the Earth". Some speculations:

(1) The Moon is a captured satellite from somewhere else, picking up its Earthside meteor-hits before getting here.

(2) The Moon spun on an axis for awhile, like the Earth, and eventually came to a screeching halt just for the hell of it.

(3) The Earth and everything on it is an illusion, so meteors have no trouble saling right through it.

(4) Final, conclusive proof of Bible creationism! The "Genesis" #6:4 giants amused themselves by throwing big rocks at the Moon.
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#58698 - 08/29/11 07:40 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Could someone explain our genius here the moon rotates too.

The reason it appears not to is called synchronous rotation.

Djeez

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#58704 - 08/29/11 01:51 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Squiddles Offline
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Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

Sure, but this still doesn't explain all the Moon-hits, large and small, which would seem to have come "directly from the Earth".


Along the same lines, a full moon would appear to be illuminated by light that came directly from earth, but it most assuredly didn't - every once in a while you see our shadow (lunar eclipse). From our perspective, it may seem like the earth completely shields the side of the moon facing us, but this really isn't the case.

 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

Some speculations:

(1) The Moon is a captured satellite from somewhere else, picking up its Earthside meteor-hits before getting here.

(2) The Moon spun on an axis for awhile, like the Earth, and eventually came to a screeching halt just for the hell of it.

(3) The Earth and everything on it is an illusion, so meteors have no trouble saling right through it.

(4) Final, conclusive proof of Bible creationism! The "Genesis" #6:4 giants amused themselves by throwing big rocks at the Moon.

LOL. Now that's just crazy talk.
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#58705 - 08/29/11 02:25 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Squiddles]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Squiddles
LOL. Now that's just crazy talk.

You're right: I need to be more careful what I say so that people won't think I'm weird or something.

Anyway, here's a nice, scholarly discussion of this burning question.

Somewhat more on thread-topic, here's a fun book which by now has much more contemporary company:

 Originally Posted By: Temple of Set Reading List
22M. Moon Madness by E.L. Abel. Greenwich, Conn.: Fawcett Publications #0-449-13697-3, 1976. (TOS-3) MA: “This is one of the more comprehensive of a number of ‘lightweight, semi-scientific’ books discussing the Moon’s various influences - from mythological to physiological - on the human organism. Included are chapters/ sections on time, blood, sex, women, maternity, plants, diseases, mental illness (including lycanthropy), suicide, lunambulism, electricity, and magnetism.”
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#58709 - 08/30/11 12:08 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Squiddles Offline
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Registered: 08/21/11
Posts: 17
Loc: California
It is an unusual item that has zero reviews on Amazon.com, but I admit it sounds like an interesting read.
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#59028 - 09/10/11 12:36 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Dimitri]
IGODSATANAS Offline
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Registered: 06/30/11
Posts: 2
Loc: flint,Mi.
Remember the body is a Battery. The mind as well have powerful functions, yet we use only a small amount. The Body is not carnal, thus we live to adept and become a free being. Its the Mind that allows us to reach and understand our freedoms.
So the Paranormal is the essence of our own energy still reaching our carnal nature.

See "Grave Encounters" the Movie. Its good, enjoy it.

Ave Satanas
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#59033 - 09/10/11 06:52 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: IGODSATANAS]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Remember the body is a Battery.

This isn't the matrix bub.

 Quote:

The mind as well have powerful functions, yet we use only a small amount.

Old wives tale. Mind is just a name we give to certain brain functions, and we utilize 100% of our brains.

 Quote:

The Body is not carnal, thus we live to adept and become a free being. Its the Mind that allows us to reach and understand our freedoms.

Did somebody forget to flush? Anyway, the body is made of meat. I don't think you know what carnal means.

 Quote:

So the Paranormal is the essence of our own energy still reaching our carnal nature.

Platitude much? Energy is a name we give to the capacity to do work, an abstract. It isn't a physical thing, nor is the term itself relevant unless in contrast to something physical. New age shit like this makes me barf.
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#59294 - 09/20/11 01:58 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Ashley Corinne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/18/11
Posts: 36
Loc: Utah
I have an interesting relationship with the paranormal. Practically speaking, I'm a skeptic. I hold an atheistic world-view and I only believe in theories that have been verified by evidence. That being said, I love the paranormal! I love watching ghost hunting shows, I listen to Coast to Coast AM almost every night, I'm a fan of Ancient Aliens, and I even watch a fair amount of Christian TV. Although I don't believe in the reality of the paranormal, I love to excite my imagination. For me, the paranormal adds spice to my life.
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#59353 - 09/21/11 09:49 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Ashley Corinne]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
I have to say, science has defined a number of different types of energy. One example; ENERGY FROM THE SUN
"after passing through the Earth's atmosphere, most of the Sun's energy is in the form of visible light and infrared light radiation.
Plants convert the energy in sunlight into chemical energy ( sugars and starches) through the process of photosynthesis.
All plants' energy comes from the Sun- plants take the Sun's energy, and they are eaten by animals, humans, etc..as food. The animals then eat each other for the energy."
Ashley,
I like that you put Ancient Aliens and Christian TV in the same sentence. I'm partial to movies about killer dolls and puppets.
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#59369 - 09/22/11 09:55 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: RAIDER]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 200
Loc: High Peak, UK
Far from being abstract energy is a physical thing that can be measured. Everything is energy & energy is everything:

E=mc2 unifies mass & energy as being differnt manifestations of the same thing.
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#76393 - 05/17/13 05:00 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: LeftHandOvGod
As the majority of us are Satanists by LaVey's definition, how do you view the paranormal? I know that this is an Atheistic religion, but remember, LaVey was a paranormal investigator at one point. (Despite the fact that they were mostly nut calls). Please, share your thoughts.


I tend to view the Paranormal as a perspective. I don't personally subscribe to it. Paranormal investigators seem to believe that unexplained events exceed normal parameters of Objective Reality. Parapsychology seems to represent a body of study within the Paranormal dealing with 'Mind' vs. brain, too much of it is quack Science for my taste. I'll read articles/journals as a matter of morbid curiosity. One of my favorite Magazines is Skeptical Inquiry Magazine. It takes many of these claims of the Paranormal head-on, often refuting the so-called expert assertions.

Some animals previously considered to be Cryptids have been discovered, classified and added to the ever expanding catalog of species. So, in some regard Academics could consider these folks the red-headed step-children of process.

My podcast is syndicated on a Paranormal Radio station, they don't seem to mind that I'm a harsh skeptic. One of the station's owners is a Cryptozoologist. He admits he doesn't buy the Big Foot claims, but he seems to have a passion for finding the proof for sightings of other creatures. I'll admit, I can't listen to most of the other hosts radio shows that focus on Paranormal investigations and discovery. The listener stats boggle the mind. Seems there's a large target audience for that sort of thing.







Edited by SIN3 (05/17/13 05:02 PM)
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#76415 - 05/18/13 01:42 AM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Dimitri]
Mistress Babylon Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 93
Loc: Northern California
Dead is Dead.

Please refrain from making one line posts. Explanation available on the front page.


Edited by Fnord (05/18/13 08:26 AM)
Edit Reason: info/warning
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#78087 - 07/15/13 12:16 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
I think the 'paranormal' has kept people captivated and stimulates them to spend their cash on gadgets, mediums and the like. The skeptics were a natural progression during the age of Spiritism, that end also has a market as well. So you have two-sides to the same coin: For/Against.


People stay plugged into television shows waiting for that 'proof' of Invisible Beings, or for someone to debunk a claim.

Skeptical Inquiry Magazine did a fairly decent article on beliefs and Invisible Beings:
Link to article

I think the 'Paranormal' is a commodity and its an easy sell.

I didn't buy the magazine (it was given to me) but I had a paid subscription for years to SI Magazine. So CSI gets some of my cash on occasion.

Generally speaking, the 'para-normal' then becomes a catch-all for the unexplained, and eldritch events; they are a 'special' sort of event.

In example, many cryptids become discovered species, so it gives people 'hope' that some of the more fantasy-type are real too! Aliens!

The field of 'para-psychology' is trying to gain solid ground to be considered more credible (Scientific Backlash aside). Proving that humans have super-powers is like refusing to admit that these qualities of humanity are terrestrial vs. celestial.

It goes without saying that Earth is full of Space-junk, and it's highly likely that elements and conditions in place to spark life here may very well have been related to an astronomical event; though it doesn't prove we are aliens that crawled out of the Sea. At least not in the sense of arriving here in a spacecraft and populating the Earth.

I think it would be pretty cool if say an Alien Nation scenario played out but that's fantasy. The reality is, 'other life' is probably like a space shrimp or something similar.
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#78105 - 07/15/13 04:42 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I refer to myself as an interested skeptic.

Ghost stories seem to me to be much like religion. Religious folk have an experience that might not fall into the category of 'normal' and they quickly ascribe it to 'god'.

Paranormal believers walk into a cold room and immediately ascribe that chilliness to their dead aunt Tilly vying for inter dimensional attention.

That said, I think people do have weird/inexplicable experiences. The difference, to me, is in how those experiences are interpreted.

I like John Keel's (The Mothman Prophecies) perspective on weird stuff... he says that all of the stuff that's encompassed under the umbrella of 'paranormal' has been occurring and reported on for so long a time (back to cave paintings) that such things are actually part of the normal experience of life.

The least interesting aspect to me are cryptids. That said, I think one day Bigfoot/Sasquatch will bear out as a real animal (I've gone deep into this one for many years and have good reason for believing the way I do).

I think SIN makes a good point, there is a fleecing of the sheep element that's almost irresistible to the Satanic type of personality. I've thought of learning Tarot and making a new career for myself \:\)
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#78108 - 07/15/13 07:06 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: LeftHandOvGod]
jim haines Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/08/13
Posts: 28
As a theistic Dark Pagan my philosophy does leave the possibility for DISINCARNATES as we sometimes call ghosts. But think about this for a moment. A lot of these OLD DECAYING HAUNTS are in fact moldering! Could indeed these experiences be the result of mold? Certain mold does have a negative effect on the nervous system. Could some of these sightings be the result of hallucinations from bad mold? When I was very young I most certainly did see a haint in the form of a ball of light. As I matured I realized that house was a MOLD FEST! So It may have been a reaction from that.
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#78117 - 07/15/13 10:02 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: SIN3]
Kemble Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 139
I think it was Lawrence Leshan that really hit it on the head with the idea that conforming parapsychology to the rigors of the other sciences can be a handicap. You don't really get a good idea of the natural behavior of tigers in cages. But -- it seems parapsychology today is as rigorous as the other sciences and there is some positive track record of 'psi' phenomena. How convincing that is depends on a person's mileage.

Fnord, that's a good one from John Keel. These experiences happen daily yet get unconsciously sidelined. Sheldrake is an example of someone that stopped taking these things for granted and developed a better sense of exploration of it via the scientific method. Reminds me also of magician Doc Shiels who observed that after a good mentalist act the audience becomes much more receptive to genuine psychic phenomena -- implying perhaps an unconscious impasse with this stuff.

I still like the book Sorcery by psychologist J. Finley Hurley. It basically puts the concept of 'telepathy' as the probable foundation of what shamans and sorcerers 'do' behind their village mojo.

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#78120 - 07/15/13 10:41 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Kemble]
timidlady Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 7
I love the paranormal. I like that there are things I can't explain. I have tons of them in my life. It's like a fun game. It's a puzzle without a box so I can't see the picture. Sometimes there's just no way I can logic things in my life. I do try. It's fun to try and science things, too. But I guess it's important to remember I'm not a physicist so I would probably ooooooo light! Where they would be: hey ya! I've theoried that. What's paranormal to me isn't so paranormal to someone else. I get that. The idea of paranormal is effected by reasonable intelligence. I guess sometimes I might seem sorta dumb to some people. Sometimes I wish someone would explain my paranormal things. Then I guess mostly sometimes I'd like to hang onto them. They seem special to me.
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#78123 - 07/15/13 11:08 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: timidlady]
Kemble Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 139
You should probably have a good evidence-based procedure to see if your assumptions are useful or you could be just playing around with pareidolia.
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#78124 - 07/15/13 11:17 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Kemble]
Kemble Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 139
Can't edit my last post, but for those who took an interest in Nemo's writings and while on the topic of village witchdoctors, telepathy, and entities, some potentially enlightening reading --

Ancient Sorcery - Nemo
Bio-electric Energy and Greater Magic - Nemo

And Lawrence Leshan's three modes of reality concept. One, the basic sensory one, doesn't allow room for the paranormal. The others do yet don't allow the grounded rational perspective we use daily. The key is to switch between these modes of perception to open and close certain experiences as desired.

The Sensory Modes of Being


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#78127 - 07/15/13 11:29 PM Re: Paranormal? [Re: Kemble]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
Thanks for the links, I'll check them out (haven't read these particular works) but I'm familiar with the premise.

I've experienced events during transcendental dance states that could be likened to levitation or a sensation of free-falling; though I understand the brain "reality", when you're experiencing it (even if only for a few seconds), it's surreal.


Edited by SIN3 (07/15/13 11:32 PM)
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