Page 4 of 5 <12345>
Topic Options
#551 - 09/22/07 12:33 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: School Bully


My dear Morgan. If I decorated your house it would look so beautiful you would never want to leave it. Least of all to go out into that sad and depressing world we all inhabit. So don't say such silly things as if there is some sort of parity going on here. There is nothing to agree or disagree on. You don't stand for anything. All you've done is contradict and question. You have no position on art at all to offer. Mine is based on firm Satanic principles. I don't know what yours is based on. Your philosophy of art, such as it is, I should imagine, is based on some boring old cliche: "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

What a stupid and dull cliche that is to be sure. You may just as well say that "everyone is entitled to his/her opinion". Put into practise, that would mean the opinion of the most stupid, ill informed ignoramous is worth just as much as the most intelligent and enlightened individual. Come to think of it, it does. It's called democracy.

You probably think this cliche phiosophy of yours ties in with some absurd notion of Individuality and subjectivism when everyone knows that people of the same ilk all instinctively think and act along the same sort of lines - it is one clear way people recognise each other. Or to put it into another cliche for you, Morg: "birds of a feather flock together".

But thanks for keeping me entertained and amused anyway, Morgan, albeit in your brutal clinical fashion. It's been a buzz but all good things must come to an end. I've had a bit of time on my hands recently with not much to do. I sorely miss the presence of Samael, Diavolo, and others. What a shame the vacuum has been filled with the opinions and reminicences of slobbering second rate social inadequates like Ta2zz. Ho hum. L'enfer, c'est les autres, o my brothers, l'enfer, c'est les autres.



School Bully is correct, aside from the Church of Satan and their advocation of beauty, nature himself is quite fond of beauty, we have only too look at the world around us at the flourishing species to discover that beauty is the law of the land.

Art Noveau is based on this very precept, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would not agree this movement is ugly - I find it a little too feminine at times but it was quite beautiful because it was based on the lines of nature.

I'm sorry to hear you're leaving SB, I always found your posts captured biting wit and aloof draconian behavior at their best. You are definitely one of the colorful characters that makes the 600club what it is - or was.

I personally believe that art is a rich craft and that work and care can be recognized as being superior to a sloppy mess. I'm talking about what is passed off as art these days.

- what would you rather look at every day on your living room wall - a picture of a fat naked retarded person or a healthy slender naked girl?

In another way I do agree - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yet we live within a vast system of set value judgements especially in aesthetics, which no one will escape within their lifetime. It is good to look at this and recognize what makes "good art" and "bad art"

Nothing can beat the exquisite craftsmanship of a nebula or galaxy - though there is also beauty to be found in the concept of a black hole, which cannot be photographed, only imagined.

I have had the experiences of ugly pieces of art facilitating the emergence of beautiful thoughts in my mind, so there is more to this than meets the eye so to speak (haha) sometimes in trance-like states the world within our minds becomes immune to the standard human parameters and we can indeed find beauty in the strangest of places. Still - we are all held in check by some barriers that are difficult to break.

Some might find it difficult to find blood beautiful - indeed many people from the past few hundred years would have found the thought of some of the Satanic art we have going around deplorable. We have to be careful not to judge too harshly lest we be judged ourselves.

I will state firmly that, having seen the works of Thomas Kinkade, that they are indeed ugly both in style and execution.

Top
#552 - 09/22/07 12:36 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: Woland
Dearest Schoolbully.

Whining and whimpering over the days of yore will get you nowhere.
Your argument are weak to say the least, and you seem disinterested when it comes to delivering decent dialog and discussion...

Why don't you pick on one your own size? ;-)

Try this on for measure:

Beauty is a cultural understanding, and as such in the eye of the beholder.
Art is a cultural understanding, and as such in the eye of the beholder.

An example of art:






Well, as I just stated, it is not just a cultural understanding, beauty is a natural understanding. Nature itself has an eye, however, and one which you would be hard pressed to escape from. In such a way, we are held to certain basic tenets of what beauty is.

I think if you're going to accuse someone of having a weak argument you should at least provide one, instead of just posting a purple penis picture and stating "Here's some art, duuurrrrr!"

;\)

Top
#569 - 09/22/07 10:12 PM Re: Fakers [Re: 97and107]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
nature himself is quite fond of beauty, we have only too look at the world around us at the flourishing species to discover that beauty is the law of the land.

Nature is quite fond of what is simple and what works… Now what is it that makes the human perceive beauty? Is it the same thing that makes man attribute human qualities on forces beyond its comprehension? Such as god and nature?

 Quote:
- what would you rather look at every day on your living room wall - a picture of a fat naked retarded person or a healthy slender naked girl?

I think the real question here is why is the fat naked person considered retarded? 100 years ago she might be looked at as well off…

Some would prefer a picture of a freshly waxed trolley car…

 Quote:
Nothing can beat the exquisite craftsmanship of a nebula or galaxy

The word craftsmanship conveys the idea that there was indeed a craftsmen… Electricity seems to be on its way to proving how the universe was shaped and works… Should I believe there is some master electrician sitting somewhere invisible in the sky?

 Quote:
though there is also beauty to be found in the concept of a black hole, which cannot be photographed, only imagined.

Current theories about space, planets, blackholes, etc make use of fantastical matter that is made up to support the theories currently in place… On the beauty in a concept, well I guess that is what we ourselves make it…

While some could see the beauty in such a thing others would see nothing but a finality and death… So beauty is in the eye of the beholder more than some would like to admit…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#581 - 09/23/07 12:43 AM Re: Fakers [Re: ta2zz]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
Sure Ta2zz, it's called geometry...there is no higher craftsman. Concepts like this are espoused in the theories of the very fabric of reality. You missed the part where I said that beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, but as humans we have limitations generally, unless we are able to escape standard issue through meditative practice - most Satanists are capable of this.

Actually having a picture of a rotting dead corpse on my wall wouldn't bother me. I'm just saying that most people would choose the naked model over an unpopular option. We are bound by popular aesthetics, like it or not.

Some are hardwired into our brains. It took some time for me to learn to love male anatomy more than female anatomy for instance - preservation of my genes you know. Intelligence ranks higher on my mating game programming. \:\) Female anatomy is probably more appealing to both sexes for the very reason it is designed - feeding and nurturing us as children.

Something about really insidiously smart guys just turns me on. SO there's beauty in mind too. We can't forget the invisible world.

Top
#609 - 09/24/07 10:41 AM Re: Fakers [Re: 97and107]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: 97and107


Well, as I just stated, it is not just a cultural understanding, beauty is a natural understanding. Nature itself has an eye, however, and one which you would be hard pressed to escape from. In such a way, we are held to certain basic tenets of what beauty is.

I think if you're going to accuse someone of having a weak argument you should at least provide one, instead of just posting a purple penis picture and stating "Here's some art, duuurrrrr!"

;\)


Dearest 97and107.

My actual argument was presented earlier in this thread (page 1-2 -3..).
Repetition is an exercise in futility.
Yet; recap coming up:

Context grew out of Schoolbully defining "art" as the highest expression of beauty.

It is important to draw a distinction between "natural" beauty and "artistic" beauty.
Let us say "a wild flower", or; "an artistic representation of a wild flower".

Art is as such filtered through human design, and thus not natural at all.

Wikipedia is decent on the subject: Art

The "Purple Dick" is an artistic expression.
The artist is the famous photographer Mr. Robert Mapplethorpe, and his picture "Man in Polyester Suit" is considered his greatest work.

My reason for posting the picture was to show; by example, that art has absolutely zilch to do with "highest expression of beauty".
Definitions like ugly & beautiful are merely simpleminded attempts to tie down both nature and culture and bears strong relations to definitions like black & white, or for that matters good & evil.
I personally have little use for any such definitions.
I am deeply into the shades in between.

After all; where would we be without Kafka?

I planned to top this off with an insult, but; life is to short.

;-)


_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

Top
#626 - 09/25/07 09:03 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Woland


Context grew out of Schoolbully defining "art" as the highest expression of beauty.

It is important to draw a distinction between "natural" beauty and "artistic" beauty.
Let us say "a wild flower", or; "an artistic representation of a wild flower".

Art is as such filtered through human design, and thus not natural at all.

Wikipedia is decent on the subject: Art

The "Purple Dick" is an artistic expression.
The artist is the famous photographer Mr. Robert Mapplethorpe, and his picture "Man in Polyester Suit" is considered his greatest work.

My reason for posting the picture was to show; by example, that art has absolutely zilch to do with "highest expression of beauty".
Definitions like ugly & beautiful are merely simpleminded attempts to tie down both nature and culture and bears strong relations to definitions like black & white, or for that matters good & evil.
I personally have little use for any such definitions.
I am deeply into the shades in between.




We cannot accept any theory of beauty in exchange for beauty itself, and, so far from wanting to isolate it in a theory of cultural understanding, appealing to the intellect, we, on the contrary, seek to materialise it in a form that gives joy through the senses. We want to create it, not to define it. The definition should follow the work: the work should not adapt itself to the definition.

A work of art is unique. Its beauty comes from the fact that the author is what he/she is. It has nothing to do with the fact that other people want what they want. Indeed, the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want, and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist, and becomes an honest or dishonest entrepreneur.

.
_________________________
.


Top
#628 - 09/25/07 09:39 AM Re: Fakers [Re: 97and107]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: 97and107

I'm sorry to hear you're leaving SB, I always found your posts captured biting wit and aloof draconian behavior at their best.


Biting wit and aloof draconian behavior? moi? I think you may have the wrong bully there, Naomi. As I always say, "if you can't say something nice about someone, then don't say anything at all". It's my personal motto.
_________________________
.


Top
#653 - 09/25/07 08:45 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
letusprey Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 10
Loc: sailing vessel
Personally, I am sick and tired of the terms "artist" and "art" employed in a self aggrandizing description of others. I am a musician. I play instruments. With my body. Hence, I am a musician, not an artist. Maybe it is my shortsighted and constrained viewpoint, yet, I believe that Michaelangelo, Botticelli, Monet,Dali, Delacroix, Renoir, Goya, DaVinci, Van Gogh, (painters) along with Rodin, Bernini, Donatello, (sculptors) and Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Pasteur, Edison, and Darwin. A nod toward Bach, Beethoven, Keysey, Steinbeck, Clemens, Stowe, et all. I mean look-
If Brittany Spears is an artist- I have a belly button also. All I need are tits, (and I can obtain them, today, if I want). This whole thing is patently ridiculous. Real artists, scientists and writers change the world permanently, personally, and for the better.
It is such a sad statement on our society when the likes of these Pop-Tarts are equated in our age with the Great Western artists, the real artists of the ages. Sort of like W being our leader here in the USA with an IQ of 90. (Cod help us)
Oh well, maybe this is why I sail.
I ain't no artist. I play instruments, and write stories.
(Mick Jagger ain't either.)
_________________________
When your head's in the sand, where is your ass?

Top
#3355 - 01/11/08 04:51 PM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 26
Loc: somewhere on this giant dirt b...
Deleted

Edited by Mercury_Templar (01/16/08 06:44 PM)
Edit Reason: Removal requested by poster – with an apology.

Top
#107557 - 07/11/16 09:59 PM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
Tigeraven7777 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 6
Loc: AZ
True
_________________________
beverlyteresaennis

Top
#107558 - 07/12/16 07:35 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Tigeraven7777]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
You know, I know this is an 8 year old dead topic revived by a toss away account with a micro reply, but I still want to respond.

 Originally Posted By: Irrelevant dead account

I can't stand these types of people...They're the ones who give us a bad name. They should be responsible for the crimes they committed, not blame them on 'the Devil' because it just makes us look bad.


Topic + commentary = Definition of Irony.

Anyway, I think the "The Devil made me do it" ones are the best. And you never know, they could have some shit going on in their head that makes them believe that..

Owls. It was probably the owls that made them do it.

Top
#107560 - 07/12/16 11:37 AM Re: Fakers [Re: xear]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: xear
I say if you kill someone you get whatever is coming to you; but there should be an extra ass kicking for hiding behind the "devil made me do it" defense. It goes against the whole "responsibility to the responsible" deal that comes with being a Satanist (and a decent human being).

- Rick




Old topic but, this stood out to me the most.

You can kill someone and get away with it.
You can take responsibility and not seek to be incarcerated or killed for it. So hiding behind an insanity defense (provided you were caught) is legit.
As for being 'decent', by what standard? I think it's pretty decent to get away with stuff, especially if that person did you dirty. Your judgement of that is irrelevant.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#107563 - 07/12/16 08:19 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
Can't argue there's not always a system to work, and lots of (a)moral grey areas, but (IMO) there's no honor/integrity in it. It's like ratting on the invisible accomplice.

It is little bitch psychic vampiresque shit to absolve ones behavior through a scapegoat defect you brought on yourself. It's the same mechanism that brings "lifer" sociopaths back to God in prison.

There are some actual grounds for insanity, but even that is a developed mental process influenced by deflection and societal archetypes. The closest thing to it I can think is a "developed schizophrenia". A "sound mind" held captive by itself, but still within control. It comes down to the defense to define and then argue that line.

Still, these people are (for the most part) more than capable of saying:

I made myself this way through an inability to cope, and I should take responsibility for my actions when called front and center."

Not facing oneself is often easier though...

Top
#107564 - 07/13/16 12:47 PM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CM
but (IMO) there's no honor/integrity in it.


What's integrity worth to you in a cage or in your execution?

If we bat off that old cliche' that self-preservation being among the highest of laws, when can you expect to cash in on it?

You can certainly acclimate to a new culture (prison) but in there, your new 'peer's may find your character traits pathetic.

Maybe we come from different backgrounds but I can tell you from personal experience - this is just some theoretical mindshit to me.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
#107566 - 07/13/16 02:21 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
What's integrity worth to you in a cage or in your execution

Self respect.

I guess it's akin to a mob code. You take the fall. It'd be a dishonor to myself "to fly over the cookoo's nest", and I'd just as well be better off getting smothered by a mute Indian. Prison/Asylum; they're both new environments to acclimate too. Own up, and face getting beat on.

"Keeping safe" is never worth playing the bitch.

Top
Page 4 of 5 <12345>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.027 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.