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#57 - 09/02/07 12:04 AM Fakers
darkangel Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 16
Loc: CT
I can't stand these types of people...They're the ones who give us a bad name. They should be responsible for the crimes they committed, not blame them on 'the Devil' because it just makes us look bad...ugghh they make me so angry =(...

http://www.local10.com/news/13909541/detail.html

http://www.newsmakingnews.com/karencuriojonesarchive.htm
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#58 - 09/02/07 12:23 AM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
...says the guy with the bloody baphomet avatar.
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#59 - 09/02/07 12:32 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Octavius]
xear Administrator Offline
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Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 417
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
...says the guy with the bloody baphomet avatar.


LMAO, dick.

I say if you kill someone you get whatever is coming to you; but there should be an extra ass kicking for hiding behind the "devil made me do it" defense. It goes against the whole "responsibility to the responsible" deal that comes with being a Satanist (and a decent human being).

As for giving Satanists a 'bad name', one could argue that they did it to themselves by standing up and using the name and symbolism of one of earth's most hated and globally known figures in history.

- Rick

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#64 - 09/02/07 09:03 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Octavius]
darkangel Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 16
Loc: CT
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
...says the guy with the bloody baphomet avatar.


girl actually ^_^ 8P
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#75 - 09/03/07 01:43 AM Re: Fakers [Re: xear]
The Blackangel Offline
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Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Missouri
 Originally Posted By: xear aka Rick

As for giving Satanists a 'bad name', one could argue that they did it to themselves by standing up and using the name and symbolism of one of earth's most hated and globally known figures in history.

- Rick



True, if you're referring to LaVeyan/Modern Satanists. But to my knowledge Traditional Satanism Has been around too long to fall under that statement.
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#77 - 09/03/07 03:00 AM Re: Fakers [Re: The Blackangel]
xear Administrator Offline
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Posts: 417
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 Originally Posted By: The Blackangel

True, if you're referring to LaVeyan/Modern Satanists. But to my knowledge Traditional Satanism Has been around too long to fall under that statement.


No, I'm pretty much applying that to anyone who was born in the 20th century and knowingly took on that particular definition to describe their belief system.

I'm not knocking the principles of Modern Satanism (I could knock on Traditional Satanism as I find the literal belief in a deity absurd, but I won't. My previous statement was a generalization to all self-proclaimed "Satanists."), but yes, if you knowingly describe yourself as a Satanist, then you can't really bemoan the societal reaction you receive given the level of notoriety that 'Satan' has had over the last 7 centuries.

Now, with that said, my only point was to say that the people who kill and then claim to be a Satanist aren't the ones giving Satanists a bad name. They always had one by default :-)

- Rick

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#86 - 09/03/07 04:27 PM Re: Fakers [Re: xear]
Trismegistus Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 13
 Originally Posted By: xear aka Rick
-if you knowingly describe yourself as a Satanist, then you can't really bemoan the societal reaction you receive given the level of notoriety that 'Satan' has had over the last 7 centuries.
- Rick


I agree completely. It's implausible to be contemptuous towards those that use a "Satan made me!" masquerade and excuse just for that reason alone.

I do believe that the one who commited the act of murder should be held fully responsible, but that's just because murder is reprehensible. If he said that he was doing the will of god, then most would consider him insane. If he said he was doing the will of satan, people would still consider him insane. It's not going to ruin the image of either god or satan. God would still be at the virtuous end of the moral spectrum and the devil at the malignant end. It's just spilling the most trivial amount of fuel on a weak kindle.
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#98 - 09/04/07 06:21 AM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
Belial 666 Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 4
Loc: Texas
The guy obviously had issues going on inside his head that more closely resemble schizophrenia rather than Satanic ideals & practice.

Here we have prosecuteres & detectives deciding that the evidence points to the practice of Satanism. They have no problem tossing in the terms "devil worship" as they fail to see the difference in the two.

Of the countless number of murder trials we'll see in a lifetime - very few of them will have the headline "Christian Convicted Of Human Sacrifice".

Satanism isn't the same as devil worship and has nothing to do with hearing demonic voices.

Once those misinformed people in question understand this, they also need to understand that Satanism is not synonomous with crime and/or murder.


Edited by Belial 666 (09/04/07 06:22 AM)
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#115 - 09/04/07 09:46 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Belial 666]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
I'm not into the kinder, gentler Satanism. I really don't see how this makes us look bad. Who's going to believe this crap anyways? Complete morons. Do we really need complete morons in Satanism? I think not. Let it scare them off.


Besides, he may be a murderer but at least he didn't try to drag Satan down with him in the courtroom:

"At no time did I ever say anything about that I killed for Candelo or I kill for Satan. I didn't do anything like this," said Galindo."

If anything it makes me wonder what the cops were thinking...


Satanists are pretty ethical people, we know this.

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#207 - 09/10/07 06:35 AM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne

Fleas dream of buying themselves a dog, and nobodies dream that, one magical day, good luck will suddenly rain down on them - will rain down in buckets. But good luck doesn't rain down, yesterday, today, tomorrow or ever. Good luck doesn't even fall in a fine drizzle, no matter how hard the nobodies summon it, even if their left hand is tickling, or if they begin the new day on their right foot, or start the new year with a change of brooms.

The nobodies: nobody's children, owners of nothing. The nobodies: the no-ones, the nobodied, running like rabbits, dying through life, screwed every which way.

Who are not, but could be.
Who don't speak languages, but dialects.
Who don't have religions, but superstitions.
Who don't create art, but handicrafts.
Who don't have culture, but folklore.
Who are not human beings, but human resources.
Who do not have faces, but arms.
Who do not have names, but numbers.
Who do not appear in the history of the world, but in the crime reports of the local paper.

The nobodies, who are not worth the bullet that kills them.
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#211 - 09/10/07 08:20 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Very poetically put, Mistah Schoolbully.

Your attitude seems infested with broad generalizations, something witch btw strikes me as contradicting in relation to our (common?) philosophical platform; ultra-individualism.

I for one find it impossible to demand respect for the individual, without displaying the same respect when looking at my fellow human beings.
Granted; most people seems to be a waste of space, but this sorry fact does not alter another fact; human potential and the power of education...

IMNSHO; I tend to find human potential more often than not.
We could of course discuss whether people are born "nobody", or made into "nobody", or if "nobodies" are beautiful, or what is a "nobody" etc.

However; I will satisfy my self by addressing your poetry...


Who are not, but could be.


If one considers Satanism to be about personal evolution (which I wholeheartedly believe), the state of "becoming" should be a process which goes from cradle to death.
Those with both feet planted firmly on the ground is in fact standing still. Any major event in any given individuals life could set this process in motion. Of course; there are conformists of all colours, in all layers of society, who fears nothing but change. I'm having problems with understanding both your contempt and your (possible) admiration.
Care to enlighten me on the subject?


Who don't speak languages, but dialects.


Such a strange wording...
Are you referring to illiteracy?
Or perhaps narrow mindedness?
Or rural populations?


Who don't have religions, but superstitions.


Born & bred in a religious organization (Orthodox Xian).
I truly hate religions.
I firmly respect "superstitions".

What is a superstition anyway?
A set of thoughts & focal points that society deems barbaric & unfit.

IMO civilization is a terrible monster.
There is magic out there, so why otherwise?
I am not talking about waving the wand whilst striking poses and quoting incantations from some book.
I am talking about willpower, the true source of all magic.
To travel in fantasy is IMO a worthy goal in life.
Reality simply does not interest me.


Who don't create art, but handicrafts.


This is stupid, and I am not used to seeing direct stupidity from your pen (or keyboard).
Define art, would you?

Ive crossed blades with many a scholar on this subject, and when cornered they all give the same answer (whilst gritting teeth):
Art is in the eye of the beholder.

I for example see beauty & wisdom in an object who has a practical purpose, might that be a song, a chair, a mug, a weapon, a portrait etc.
Our current definition is simply art-ificial, shallow & hollow.
I prefer something real...


Who don't have culture, but folklore.


Fuck culture, for the same reasons as stated in several wordings above.
You've never stricken me as a snob before, what happened?


Who do not have faces, but arms.


Depends on who is looking, and you seem to be looking in the wrong place.


Who do not have names, but numbers.


His name was Robert Paulsson.
His name was Robert Paulsson.
His name was Robert Paulsson.


Who do not appear in the history of the world, but in the crime reports of the local paper.


Thievery is an old & respected profession.
Been there, done that, still doing it, but in a very subtle manner.
More subtle than governments and politicians at least.
Human rabble, human waste... ;\)



The nobodies, who are not worth the bullet that kills them.



Ehhhh...
Planning some action , matey?
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#215 - 09/10/07 12:00 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Suggestion:

Satanists are born, not made ?

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#216 - 09/10/07 12:11 PM Re: Fakers [Re: ballbreaker]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
Suggestion:

Satanists are born, not made ?


That sounds disgustingly LaVeyan....
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#220 - 09/10/07 02:20 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
The Blackangel Offline
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Registered: 09/03/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Missouri
It may sound LaVeyan, but you need to remember that whether you like it or not a lot of people here are still stuck on LaVey's bible. There are plenty of his "Modern Satanists" out there, and I'm sure quite a few of the people that come here are Modern Satanists.
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#222 - 09/10/07 02:35 PM Re: Fakers [Re: The Blackangel]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Alas: it was a joke...

That said, I have never taken much interest in the works of the good Doctor LaVey.

A Satanic Bible is IMO a contradiction ans well as an impossibility.
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Woland

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#242 - 09/11/07 05:13 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Woland
Who don't create art, but handicrafts.

This is stupid, and I am not used to seeing direct stupidity from your pen (or keyboard).



That over-used and much abused word should be banned from this forum until people know how to use it properly. You sound like a schoolboy who, because he cannot work out algebra concludes that maths is stupid.


 Quote:
Define art, would you?



We've been through this before. It is the highest expression of beauty.


 Quote:
Ive crossed blades with many a scholar on this subject, and when cornered they all give the same answer (whilst gritting teeth):
Art is in the eye of the beholder.



... which is simply a polite way of saying that some people have got no taste.


 Quote:
I for example see beauty & wisdom in an object who has a practical purpose, might that be a song, a chair, a mug, a weapon, a portrait etc.
Our current definition is simply art-ificial, shallow & hollow.
I prefer something real...



Anyone can forgive a man for making something practical as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making something totally impractical is that one admires it intensely. All art is impractical.
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#282 - 09/12/07 05:56 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Dearest Schoolbully.

Refreshing considerations around the subject of "art".
I do not really have to argue against your opinions.
You seem more than capable of pulling the carpet from underneath your argument, as you deliver it...


One question; is a piece of music impractical?











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Woland

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#330 - 09/13/07 04:40 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Actually, there is a VALID psychology job field called Art Therapy.
I actually took this as my double major in college.
You use Art as a means of working with children and adults to help them deal with their psychological issues in a nutshell.
You learn how different imagery can be universal in how people express themselves. One of the saddest things I dealt with was a 4 year old anorexic. She had no control over her life, and used food as a means of control on her world.
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#363 - 09/16/07 04:29 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
Your point being what exactly Morgan? That any looney tune can put paint to paper?
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#364 - 09/16/07 04:34 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Woland



One question; is a piece of music impractical?



Britney Spears' music makes for an excellent source of land fill
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#367 - 09/16/07 08:11 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
I really don't have anything to add the discourse here, other than to say I love the way SchoolBully is handling this topic.

Well done Sir!
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#368 - 09/16/07 10:10 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US


*shudder*

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#385 - 09/17/07 05:32 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: School Bully
 Originally Posted By: Woland



One question; is a piece of music impractical?



Britney Spears' music makes for an excellent source of land fill


Very slippery of you Agent Starling...

Not...

Care to address the discussion, which I (for one) finds interesting?
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Woland

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#401 - 09/17/07 05:31 PM Re: Fakers [Re: xear]
blackdragon31560 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 74
Loc: Hell Paso, TX
This thread got so off topic topic, I thought I bring back “home”.

Fake -> Sham (noun) “2 : cheap falseness : HYPOCRISY”

If you take it from dictionary, they where not, they worship what they call “Satan”. Satan being able to symbolize or mean so many things. But you take the quote by Galindo:

 Quote:
At no time did I ever say anything about that I killed for Candelo or I kill for Satan. I didn't do anything like this


If you read more into it “Satanism” introduced by the prosecutor, but it would be hard who brought the idea out, without a court transcript.

 Quote:
earth's most hated and globally known figures in history


I would have to disagree, I would say its hated by all Christian’s (Catholics, baptist’s, etc). If you move out of that, “Satan” has little or no meaning including in Judaism (Judaism has no devil, there is no embodiment of evil).
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#419 - 09/17/07 10:56 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City

"Your point being what exactly Morgan? That any looney tune can put paint to paper?"

NO, you dense one. Just that sometimes depending on an individuals age, mental status, and emotional status, that art can be used as a means of commicating problems or issues that a person may not be able to put into words.

Art is not always beautiful, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Besides, if beauty always mattered, there would be lots more dead ulgy babies floating around.

M
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#423 - 09/18/07 03:53 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Morgan

"Your point being what exactly Morgan? That any looney tune can put paint to paper?"

NO, you dense one. Just that sometimes depending on an individuals age, mental status, and emotional status, that art can be used as a means of commicating problems or issues that a person may not be able to put into words.


Oh, I'm sorry Morgan. In that case perhaps I should have said: Your point being what exactly Morgan? That any looney tune can put paint to paper in order to express his/her emotions/ feelings/mental state?

There - does that make it better?

Van Gogh and Picasso's blue period has a lot to answer for.

 Quote:
Art is not always beautiful, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Besides, if beauty always mattered, there would be lots more dead ulgy babies floating around.


No Morgan, you are quite wrong. Beauty always does matter. There is no such thing as "ugly art" only good art and bad art. Likewise there is no such thing as a moral or immoral book. Books are either well written or badly written. That is all.
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#443 - 09/18/07 03:50 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Thus by stating Vango and Picasso in regards to their blue period you prove my point.

"Beauty always does matter. There is no such thing as "ugly art" only good art and bad art"
Thus spoke/paraphrased Guilani as he banned some art from being shown in a new york city museaum.
What you are arguring about is your personal preference, your views verses what is more of a generally accepted idea. How do you define "good art"?

"Likewise there is no such thing as a moral or immoral book. Books are either well written or badly written. That is all."
So based on that statement, how do deal with the books you decide are badly written?

farienheit 214

come on....

Morg
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#446 - 09/18/07 06:09 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Hey Schoolbully,

Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and actually post a picture of yourself?

Somehow I guess you would be too gutless to? Are you the ugly fuck on the outside that you come across as?

This obsession of beauty says to me that you are one ugly mofo, that knows he doesn't cut it and has to resort to being an online bully (the biggest posures of the lot) to get respect.

So when it comes to fakers, I think you are the biggest faker of anyone on this board.

ZephyrGirl (ps, I'm really good looking, with great big double d's and legs like Payneham Road - They go all the way to Paradise)!
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#447 - 09/18/07 06:21 PM Re: Fakers [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and actually post a picture of yourself?


Hmmm, now this is an intersting point.

Nearly everyone here has posted pics of themselves either now or in the past. Most of us have fairly extensive myspace albums.

Hell, some of us even have half naked pics of ourselves out there. *Ahem*
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#456 - 09/19/07 03:29 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Fist]
Disabuse Offline
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Registered: 09/19/07
Posts: 220
In reply to the OT of this thread:

You receive that which you sow. Openly stating you're a "Satanist" to the public will automatically reflect a negative shadow upon you. I wouldn't be mad, I would laugh at their indiscretion and ignorance.

If you want to try and change the general publics opinion of what a Satanist really is, good luck to you. For the rest of us, luckily we have the art of manipulation on our side.

I am whatever the situation calls for in my personal benefit. Nothing more, nothing less.
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#460 - 09/19/07 04:18 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Thus by stating Vango and Picasso in regards to their blue period you prove my point.


The only point that has been proved is that the artist is the creator of beautiful things. His mental or emotional state is not as important as what he is able to produce from that. Art, I'm sure you realize Morgan, is all symbol. Anyone who dwelves below the surface does so at his own peril. Anyone who discovers ugly meanings in beautiful things is both corrupt and sick - whether that be the therapist or patient. It is the spectator, not the artist that all art mirrors.

 Quote:
"Beauty always does matter. There is no such thing as "ugly art" only good art and bad art"
Thus spoke/paraphrased Guilani as he banned some art from being shown in a new york city museaum.
What you are arguring about is your personal preference, your views verses what is more of a generally accepted idea. How do you define "good art"?


All good art is beauty. And beauty is the promise of happiness.

 Quote:
"Likewise there is no such thing as a moral or immoral book. Books are either well written or badly written. That is all."
So based on that statement, how do deal with the books you decide are badly written?


Obviously by not reading them - only I don't personally decide which books are badly written. Others do. Popularity is the crown which the world puts on bad art. Whatever is popular is wrong.



 Quote:
farienheit 214


... now there's a thought - BTW, is that anything like Farenheit 451?




Edited by School Bully (09/19/07 04:23 AM)

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#462 - 09/19/07 05:03 AM Re: Fakers [Re: ZephyrGirl]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Zephyr's right Schoolbully, she's hot. Oh yeah.

But that too, is aesthetics, and aesthetics are subjective... "subjectivity is objective..." hey, is this a Woody Allen film? Is subjectivity - objectivity? Or is an ugly fucker an ugly fucker? I don't know - I've met some of my wife's girlfriends that have happy husbands. I'm not going to judge. But, I think we all can generally agree on "pretty" or "handsome", or "beautiful" or "disgusting" - with some sort of justification.

Art, though, is a difficult concept to judge. If it is ugly, is it "intentionally ugly"? (But is it done with skill?) Does it convey it's appropriate message? I think that is how we should approach this subject. Does it make you think outside your normal expectations?

But, perhaps I'm just a romantic at heart.
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#463 - 09/19/07 05:39 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: schoolbully
All good art is beauty. And beauty is the promise of happiness.

Where is the proof in that statement? Where do you connect beauty with happiness or a promise of happiness?

 Originally Posted By: schoolbully
Likewise there is no such thing as a moral or immoral book. Books are either well written or badly written. That is all."
 Originally Posted By: morgan
So based on that statement, how do deal with the books you decide are badly written?

To which you reply…

 Originally Posted By: schoolbully
Obviously by not reading them - only I don't personally decide which books are badly written. Others do.

So you live your life by the opinion of others? This is what you are saying… Care to explain your thought?

 Originally Posted By: schoolbully
Popularity is the crown which the world puts on bad art. Whatever is popular is wrong.

So just because something is popular by that very definition to you it is wrong… In the case of art does this now make it ugly, a book badly written?

By the way personally I could care less what the container your brain is in looks like… But I can say if the brain is ugly there is no amount of physical beauty to make up for that…

Good day…
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#465 - 09/19/07 06:03 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: School Bully
How fascinating. And how much do you charge for a blow job?

Poor chap... Don't you know that if you have to ask the price of something it is an indicator that you do not have enough to pay for it?
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#466 - 09/19/07 06:29 AM Re: Fakers [Re: daevid777]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
Zephyr's right Schoolbully, she's hot. Oh yeah.


Well, I sincerely hope so. I hate having to talk to ugly women.

 Quote:
But, perhaps I'm just a romantic at heart.


Me too, droog, me too.
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#477 - 09/19/07 03:37 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"His mental or emotional state is not as important as what he is able to produce from that"

So what he creates and the whys behind it have no bearing or meaning on the created artwork to you.
So a pretty flora advertisment has the same value as pretty flora oil painting.

"Anyone who dwelves below the surface does so at his own peril."

So all art history/appreication classes/museaum tours are worthless. So painting made of mixed meduium including tears, blood, and other substance dont make a difference in regards to meaning verses beauty to you.

"Anyone who discovers ugly meanings in beautiful things is both corrupt and sick - whether that be the therapist or patient."

So a pretty picture of dead rotting bodies, or tasteful crimescene photos, or ansel adams photos make/mean no difference to you.

"It is the spectator, not the artist that all art mirror"

I now see that you have never created any artwork yourself, or you would know this to be a complete falsehood.

Morg
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#489 - 09/19/07 10:20 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
There is a point, when someone becomes so mired in their own ego that they cease to be rational in their ability to interact with all others. Often, this is misrepresented as the quasi-achievement of enlightenment, becoming the Nietzschean over-man, or Nephilim, Demon, Priest, Connoisseur, "true" Satanist, etc. This is not the case. Clearly, this simply means that you've lost the ability to interact with others on any level in addition to letting yourself be challenged by new thoughts and ideas that may change the ones you so vehemently cling to. Your strength is a facade. Your self-deification is illusory and transparent. Titles mean nothing, even if thery're merely assumed as we see so aptly illustrated by our monacled comerade, Schoolbully.

This is all I can think of every single time I read one of Schoolbully's posts. With all due (?) respect, sir, you're wasting your own time. Looking forward to you illustrating my point...

Octavius


Edited by Octavius (09/19/07 10:29 PM)
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#501 - 09/20/07 03:37 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
"His mental or emotional state is not as important as what he is able to produce from that"

So what he creates and the whys behind it have no bearing or meaning on the created artwork to you.
So a pretty flora advertisment has the same value as pretty flora oil painting.


What is a picture? Primarily, a picture is a coloured surface, merely, with no more spiritual message or meaning for anyone than a pretty flora advertisment. It is purely a decorative thing.

A picture has no meaning but its beauty, no message but its joy. That is the first truth about art that you must learn. A picture is a purely decorative thing.

 Quote:
"Anyone who dwelves below the surface does so at his own peril."

So all art history/appreication classes/museaum tours are worthless. So painting made of mixed meduium including tears, blood, and other substance dont make a difference in regards to meaning verses beauty to you.

"Anyone who discovers ugly meanings in beautiful things is both corrupt and sick - whether that be the therapist or patient."

So a pretty picture of dead rotting bodies, or tasteful crimescene photos, or ansel adams photos make/mean no difference to you.


Have you ever seen footage of an atomic bomb exploding? A terrible, deadly weapon but so beautiful to watch.

 Quote:
"It is the spectator, not the artist that all art mirror"

I now see that you have never created any artwork yourself, or you would know this to be a complete falsehood.


Morgan your moralising on the subject of art is becoming quite tedious. How often have you heard the phrase: "I don't know much about art, but I know what I like". In this way, the artist is completely irrelevant. It is the product itself that is important, not who produced it or even why. That is all secondary. There is nothing false about that. That is exactly as art should be. It should stand on its own merits. It should speak for itself. Any genuine artist would not wish it to be any other way. No, Morgan, It seems that yours is the complete falsehood.
_________________________
.


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#508 - 09/20/07 06:02 AM Re: Fakers [Re: ta2zz]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
 Originally Posted By: School Bully
How fascinating. And how much do you charge for a blow job?

Poor chap... Don't you know that if you have to ask the price of something it is an indicator that you do not have enough to pay for it?


I'm assuming that Schoolbully was aiming this at me, but has since taken it down, probably in part due to your very amusing response Ta2zz.
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#510 - 09/20/07 07:51 AM Re: Fakers [Re: daevid777]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Originally Posted By: daevid777
I've met some of my wife's girlfriends that have happy husbands. I'm not going to judge.


Oh Dave! You had me laughing about this all morning....Even now, having just gotten out of the shower, I'm still giggling
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#512 - 09/20/07 12:42 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
Cody Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 72
I personally loved the old Robert Tilton, he could turn the story of the creation around to state that someone needed to send him money and he was successful at it for a while, he got busted then continued on and he has been featured on BET (black Entertainment Television) lately, Benny Hinn is a close second. Damn, I need to get into the business of religion, I would probably make a hell of a lot more in the short run but I would know when to quit, or maybe I am lying to myself.

for your enjoyment or not and all that stuff in between:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lvU-DislkI



Edited by Cody (09/20/07 12:44 PM)

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#516 - 09/20/07 02:45 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"A picture has no meaning but its beauty, no message but its joy. That is the first truth about art that you must learn. A picture is a purely decorative thing."

Simply to you. This is your opinion, not a universal truth.

"Anyone who discovers ugly meanings in beautiful things is both corrupt and sick - whether that be the therapist or patient...
Have you ever seen footage of an atomic bomb exploding? A terrible, deadly weapon but so beautiful to watch."

And now you think bomb explosions fall into the art work catagory?

"I don't know much about art, but I know what I like".

Yes, this does just seem to sum you up.

Whatever, you have your personal views on Art, I have mine. It does not seem that we will agree on this topic or come to similar terms, I think it is best to agree to disagree.

I wont decorate your house, as long as you agree not to decorate mine.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#529 - 09/21/07 04:55 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Morgan]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne


My dear Morgan. If I decorated your house it would look so beautiful you would never want to leave it. Least of all to go out into that sad and depressing world we all inhabit. So don't say such silly things as if there is some sort of parity going on here. There is nothing to agree or disagree on. You don't stand for anything. All you've done is contradict and question. You have no position on art at all to offer. Mine is based on firm Satanic principles. I don't know what yours is based on. Your philosophy of art, such as it is, I should imagine, is based on some boring old cliche: "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

What a stupid and dull cliche that is to be sure. You may just as well say that "everyone is entitled to his/her opinion". Put into practise, that would mean the opinion of the most stupid, ill informed ignoramous is worth just as much as the most intelligent and enlightened individual. Come to think of it, it does. It's called democracy.

You probably think this cliche phiosophy of yours ties in with some absurd notion of Individuality and subjectivism when everyone knows that people of the same ilk all instinctively think and act along the same sort of lines - it is one clear way people recognise each other. Or to put it into another cliche for you, Morg: "birds of a feather flock together".

But thanks for keeping me entertained and amused anyway, Morgan, albeit in your brutal clinical fashion. It's been a buzz but all good things must come to an end. I've had a bit of time on my hands recently with not much to do. I sorely miss the presence of Samael, Diavolo, and others. What a shame the vacuum has been filled with the opinions and reminicences of slobbering second rate social inadequates like Ta2zz. Ho hum. L'enfer, c'est les autres, o my brothers, l'enfer, c'est les autres.
_________________________
.


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#534 - 09/21/07 11:30 AM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: School Bully
I sorely miss the presence of Samael, Diavolo, and others.


Both are here old boy, you can PM them perhaps they miss you too…

 Quote:
What a shame the vacuum has been filled with the opinions and reminicences of slobbering second rate social inadequates like Ta2zz.


Thanks for the mention it lets me know you have not forgotten me… hell you even capitalized the T…

Remember ignoring a fact does not change anything…

Now excuse me I must leave my cave and go create art on skin…

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (09/21/07 11:34 AM)
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#535 - 09/21/07 02:12 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
Dearest Schoolbully.

Whining and whimpering over the days of yore will get you nowhere.
Your argument are weak to say the least, and you seem disinterested when it comes to delivering decent dialog and discussion...

Why don't you pick on one your own size? ;-)

Try this on for measure:

Beauty is a cultural understanding, and as such in the eye of the beholder.
Art is a cultural understanding, and as such in the eye of the beholder.

An example of art:

_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#551 - 09/22/07 12:33 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: School Bully


My dear Morgan. If I decorated your house it would look so beautiful you would never want to leave it. Least of all to go out into that sad and depressing world we all inhabit. So don't say such silly things as if there is some sort of parity going on here. There is nothing to agree or disagree on. You don't stand for anything. All you've done is contradict and question. You have no position on art at all to offer. Mine is based on firm Satanic principles. I don't know what yours is based on. Your philosophy of art, such as it is, I should imagine, is based on some boring old cliche: "beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

What a stupid and dull cliche that is to be sure. You may just as well say that "everyone is entitled to his/her opinion". Put into practise, that would mean the opinion of the most stupid, ill informed ignoramous is worth just as much as the most intelligent and enlightened individual. Come to think of it, it does. It's called democracy.

You probably think this cliche phiosophy of yours ties in with some absurd notion of Individuality and subjectivism when everyone knows that people of the same ilk all instinctively think and act along the same sort of lines - it is one clear way people recognise each other. Or to put it into another cliche for you, Morg: "birds of a feather flock together".

But thanks for keeping me entertained and amused anyway, Morgan, albeit in your brutal clinical fashion. It's been a buzz but all good things must come to an end. I've had a bit of time on my hands recently with not much to do. I sorely miss the presence of Samael, Diavolo, and others. What a shame the vacuum has been filled with the opinions and reminicences of slobbering second rate social inadequates like Ta2zz. Ho hum. L'enfer, c'est les autres, o my brothers, l'enfer, c'est les autres.



School Bully is correct, aside from the Church of Satan and their advocation of beauty, nature himself is quite fond of beauty, we have only too look at the world around us at the flourishing species to discover that beauty is the law of the land.

Art Noveau is based on this very precept, and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would not agree this movement is ugly - I find it a little too feminine at times but it was quite beautiful because it was based on the lines of nature.

I'm sorry to hear you're leaving SB, I always found your posts captured biting wit and aloof draconian behavior at their best. You are definitely one of the colorful characters that makes the 600club what it is - or was.

I personally believe that art is a rich craft and that work and care can be recognized as being superior to a sloppy mess. I'm talking about what is passed off as art these days.

- what would you rather look at every day on your living room wall - a picture of a fat naked retarded person or a healthy slender naked girl?

In another way I do agree - beauty is in the eye of the beholder, yet we live within a vast system of set value judgements especially in aesthetics, which no one will escape within their lifetime. It is good to look at this and recognize what makes "good art" and "bad art"

Nothing can beat the exquisite craftsmanship of a nebula or galaxy - though there is also beauty to be found in the concept of a black hole, which cannot be photographed, only imagined.

I have had the experiences of ugly pieces of art facilitating the emergence of beautiful thoughts in my mind, so there is more to this than meets the eye so to speak (haha) sometimes in trance-like states the world within our minds becomes immune to the standard human parameters and we can indeed find beauty in the strangest of places. Still - we are all held in check by some barriers that are difficult to break.

Some might find it difficult to find blood beautiful - indeed many people from the past few hundred years would have found the thought of some of the Satanic art we have going around deplorable. We have to be careful not to judge too harshly lest we be judged ourselves.

I will state firmly that, having seen the works of Thomas Kinkade, that they are indeed ugly both in style and execution.

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#552 - 09/22/07 12:36 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: Woland
Dearest Schoolbully.

Whining and whimpering over the days of yore will get you nowhere.
Your argument are weak to say the least, and you seem disinterested when it comes to delivering decent dialog and discussion...

Why don't you pick on one your own size? ;-)

Try this on for measure:

Beauty is a cultural understanding, and as such in the eye of the beholder.
Art is a cultural understanding, and as such in the eye of the beholder.

An example of art:






Well, as I just stated, it is not just a cultural understanding, beauty is a natural understanding. Nature itself has an eye, however, and one which you would be hard pressed to escape from. In such a way, we are held to certain basic tenets of what beauty is.

I think if you're going to accuse someone of having a weak argument you should at least provide one, instead of just posting a purple penis picture and stating "Here's some art, duuurrrrr!"

;\)

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#569 - 09/22/07 10:12 PM Re: Fakers [Re: 97and107]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: 97and107
nature himself is quite fond of beauty, we have only too look at the world around us at the flourishing species to discover that beauty is the law of the land.

Nature is quite fond of what is simple and what works… Now what is it that makes the human perceive beauty? Is it the same thing that makes man attribute human qualities on forces beyond its comprehension? Such as god and nature?

 Quote:
- what would you rather look at every day on your living room wall - a picture of a fat naked retarded person or a healthy slender naked girl?

I think the real question here is why is the fat naked person considered retarded? 100 years ago she might be looked at as well off…

Some would prefer a picture of a freshly waxed trolley car…

 Quote:
Nothing can beat the exquisite craftsmanship of a nebula or galaxy

The word craftsmanship conveys the idea that there was indeed a craftsmen… Electricity seems to be on its way to proving how the universe was shaped and works… Should I believe there is some master electrician sitting somewhere invisible in the sky?

 Quote:
though there is also beauty to be found in the concept of a black hole, which cannot be photographed, only imagined.

Current theories about space, planets, blackholes, etc make use of fantastical matter that is made up to support the theories currently in place… On the beauty in a concept, well I guess that is what we ourselves make it…

While some could see the beauty in such a thing others would see nothing but a finality and death… So beauty is in the eye of the beholder more than some would like to admit…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#581 - 09/23/07 12:43 AM Re: Fakers [Re: ta2zz]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
Sure Ta2zz, it's called geometry...there is no higher craftsman. Concepts like this are espoused in the theories of the very fabric of reality. You missed the part where I said that beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder, but as humans we have limitations generally, unless we are able to escape standard issue through meditative practice - most Satanists are capable of this.

Actually having a picture of a rotting dead corpse on my wall wouldn't bother me. I'm just saying that most people would choose the naked model over an unpopular option. We are bound by popular aesthetics, like it or not.

Some are hardwired into our brains. It took some time for me to learn to love male anatomy more than female anatomy for instance - preservation of my genes you know. Intelligence ranks higher on my mating game programming. \:\) Female anatomy is probably more appealing to both sexes for the very reason it is designed - feeding and nurturing us as children.

Something about really insidiously smart guys just turns me on. SO there's beauty in mind too. We can't forget the invisible world.

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#609 - 09/24/07 10:41 AM Re: Fakers [Re: 97and107]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: 97and107


Well, as I just stated, it is not just a cultural understanding, beauty is a natural understanding. Nature itself has an eye, however, and one which you would be hard pressed to escape from. In such a way, we are held to certain basic tenets of what beauty is.

I think if you're going to accuse someone of having a weak argument you should at least provide one, instead of just posting a purple penis picture and stating "Here's some art, duuurrrrr!"

;\)


Dearest 97and107.

My actual argument was presented earlier in this thread (page 1-2 -3..).
Repetition is an exercise in futility.
Yet; recap coming up:

Context grew out of Schoolbully defining "art" as the highest expression of beauty.

It is important to draw a distinction between "natural" beauty and "artistic" beauty.
Let us say "a wild flower", or; "an artistic representation of a wild flower".

Art is as such filtered through human design, and thus not natural at all.

Wikipedia is decent on the subject: Art

The "Purple Dick" is an artistic expression.
The artist is the famous photographer Mr. Robert Mapplethorpe, and his picture "Man in Polyester Suit" is considered his greatest work.

My reason for posting the picture was to show; by example, that art has absolutely zilch to do with "highest expression of beauty".
Definitions like ugly & beautiful are merely simpleminded attempts to tie down both nature and culture and bears strong relations to definitions like black & white, or for that matters good & evil.
I personally have little use for any such definitions.
I am deeply into the shades in between.

After all; where would we be without Kafka?

I planned to top this off with an insult, but; life is to short.

;-)


_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#626 - 09/25/07 09:03 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Woland]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Woland


Context grew out of Schoolbully defining "art" as the highest expression of beauty.

It is important to draw a distinction between "natural" beauty and "artistic" beauty.
Let us say "a wild flower", or; "an artistic representation of a wild flower".

Art is as such filtered through human design, and thus not natural at all.

Wikipedia is decent on the subject: Art

The "Purple Dick" is an artistic expression.
The artist is the famous photographer Mr. Robert Mapplethorpe, and his picture "Man in Polyester Suit" is considered his greatest work.

My reason for posting the picture was to show; by example, that art has absolutely zilch to do with "highest expression of beauty".
Definitions like ugly & beautiful are merely simpleminded attempts to tie down both nature and culture and bears strong relations to definitions like black & white, or for that matters good & evil.
I personally have little use for any such definitions.
I am deeply into the shades in between.




We cannot accept any theory of beauty in exchange for beauty itself, and, so far from wanting to isolate it in a theory of cultural understanding, appealing to the intellect, we, on the contrary, seek to materialise it in a form that gives joy through the senses. We want to create it, not to define it. The definition should follow the work: the work should not adapt itself to the definition.

A work of art is unique. Its beauty comes from the fact that the author is what he/she is. It has nothing to do with the fact that other people want what they want. Indeed, the moment that an artist takes notice of what other people want, and tries to supply the demand, he ceases to be an artist, and becomes an honest or dishonest entrepreneur.

.
_________________________
.


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#628 - 09/25/07 09:39 AM Re: Fakers [Re: 97and107]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: 97and107

I'm sorry to hear you're leaving SB, I always found your posts captured biting wit and aloof draconian behavior at their best.


Biting wit and aloof draconian behavior? moi? I think you may have the wrong bully there, Naomi. As I always say, "if you can't say something nice about someone, then don't say anything at all". It's my personal motto.
_________________________
.


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#653 - 09/25/07 08:45 PM Re: Fakers [Re: School Bully]
letusprey Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/25/07
Posts: 10
Loc: sailing vessel
Personally, I am sick and tired of the terms "artist" and "art" employed in a self aggrandizing description of others. I am a musician. I play instruments. With my body. Hence, I am a musician, not an artist. Maybe it is my shortsighted and constrained viewpoint, yet, I believe that Michaelangelo, Botticelli, Monet,Dali, Delacroix, Renoir, Goya, DaVinci, Van Gogh, (painters) along with Rodin, Bernini, Donatello, (sculptors) and Newton, Galileo, Einstein, Pasteur, Edison, and Darwin. A nod toward Bach, Beethoven, Keysey, Steinbeck, Clemens, Stowe, et all. I mean look-
If Brittany Spears is an artist- I have a belly button also. All I need are tits, (and I can obtain them, today, if I want). This whole thing is patently ridiculous. Real artists, scientists and writers change the world permanently, personally, and for the better.
It is such a sad statement on our society when the likes of these Pop-Tarts are equated in our age with the Great Western artists, the real artists of the ages. Sort of like W being our leader here in the USA with an IQ of 90. (Cod help us)
Oh well, maybe this is why I sail.
I ain't no artist. I play instruments, and write stories.
(Mick Jagger ain't either.)
_________________________
When your head's in the sand, where is your ass?

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#3355 - 01/11/08 04:51 PM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/07/08
Posts: 26
Loc: somewhere on this giant dirt b...
Deleted

Edited by Mercury_Templar (01/16/08 06:44 PM)
Edit Reason: Removal requested by poster – with an apology.

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#107557 - 07/11/16 09:59 PM Re: Fakers [Re: darkangel]
Tigeraven7777 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 6
Loc: AZ
True
_________________________
beverlyteresaennis

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#107558 - 07/12/16 07:35 AM Re: Fakers [Re: Tigeraven7777]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
You know, I know this is an 8 year old dead topic revived by a toss away account with a micro reply, but I still want to respond.

 Originally Posted By: Irrelevant dead account

I can't stand these types of people...They're the ones who give us a bad name. They should be responsible for the crimes they committed, not blame them on 'the Devil' because it just makes us look bad.


Topic + commentary = Definition of Irony.

Anyway, I think the "The Devil made me do it" ones are the best. And you never know, they could have some shit going on in their head that makes them believe that..

Owls. It was probably the owls that made them do it.

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#107560 - 07/12/16 11:37 AM Re: Fakers [Re: xear]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: xear
I say if you kill someone you get whatever is coming to you; but there should be an extra ass kicking for hiding behind the "devil made me do it" defense. It goes against the whole "responsibility to the responsible" deal that comes with being a Satanist (and a decent human being).

- Rick




Old topic but, this stood out to me the most.

You can kill someone and get away with it.
You can take responsibility and not seek to be incarcerated or killed for it. So hiding behind an insanity defense (provided you were caught) is legit.
As for being 'decent', by what standard? I think it's pretty decent to get away with stuff, especially if that person did you dirty. Your judgement of that is irrelevant.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

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#107563 - 07/12/16 08:19 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
Can't argue there's not always a system to work, and lots of (a)moral grey areas, but (IMO) there's no honor/integrity in it. It's like ratting on the invisible accomplice.

It is little bitch psychic vampiresque shit to absolve ones behavior through a scapegoat defect you brought on yourself. It's the same mechanism that brings "lifer" sociopaths back to God in prison.

There are some actual grounds for insanity, but even that is a developed mental process influenced by deflection and societal archetypes. The closest thing to it I can think is a "developed schizophrenia". A "sound mind" held captive by itself, but still within control. It comes down to the defense to define and then argue that line.

Still, these people are (for the most part) more than capable of saying:

I made myself this way through an inability to cope, and I should take responsibility for my actions when called front and center."

Not facing oneself is often easier though...

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#107564 - 07/13/16 12:47 PM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CM
but (IMO) there's no honor/integrity in it.


What's integrity worth to you in a cage or in your execution?

If we bat off that old cliche' that self-preservation being among the highest of laws, when can you expect to cash in on it?

You can certainly acclimate to a new culture (prison) but in there, your new 'peer's may find your character traits pathetic.

Maybe we come from different backgrounds but I can tell you from personal experience - this is just some theoretical mindshit to me.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

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#107566 - 07/13/16 02:21 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
What's integrity worth to you in a cage or in your execution

Self respect.

I guess it's akin to a mob code. You take the fall. It'd be a dishonor to myself "to fly over the cookoo's nest", and I'd just as well be better off getting smothered by a mute Indian. Prison/Asylum; they're both new environments to acclimate too. Own up, and face getting beat on.

"Keeping safe" is never worth playing the bitch.

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#107568 - 07/13/16 02:31 PM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
Haha people don't get shoved in Asylums anymore and it's rarer than you think to escape a prison sentence, even with that plea.

What's Self-Respect to a caged animal?
_________________________
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#107569 - 07/13/16 03:50 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
Ok, then they put you in seg. Maybe even ADMAX depending on your offense.

 Quote:
What's Self-Respect to a caged animal?


Everything. If all else is stripped away, self respect (with an appeal to pride) is the last thing to go.

Apart from owning up, prison is the truest example of a social alligator pit, and if you don't respect yourself the other animals will smell your weakness.

I have never been. But there's a first time for everything, right?

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#107570 - 07/13/16 04:37 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1763
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
You can take responsibility and not seek to be incarcerated or killed for it. So hiding behind an insanity defense (provided you were caught) is legit.
As for being 'decent', by what standard? I think it's pretty decent to get away with stuff,


An insanity plea, if by any chance accepted by the court, still means being locked up, not in prison but in a mental asylum. The wards where the mad criminals are locked up are better guarded and more restricted than the wards for ordinary patients. In either case you're screwed and lose freedom.

I think what Rick means by taking responsibility for your actions is being able to predict the consequences of your actions. In other words, if you don't know how to commit a crime, do not commit a crime. Getting caught is fucking it up. A caught criminal is a loser. Know thy limits. Few are skilled enough to be super duper sinister but any dumbass can be Satan's proxy. This is why "the Devil made me do it" defense, though legit, is still pathetic.
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#107573 - 07/14/16 12:37 PM Re: Fakers [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
Not necessarily but I do agree that either way you don't have your freedom (if you get caught). (See: Crimminal Procedure and AAP & Law)

More often than not, inmates are housed in prisons not medical hospitals.

One could also predict it as a fall back to treatment should you become a person of interest. Again, there are plenty of unsolved crimes and disappeared people in the world. The art of misdirection could be in use as a personality trend you leave among people that know you. "That guy is insane but he wouldn't harm a fly" that sort of thing. Pathetic is a judgment call made by others and is irrelevant

For a more contextual case, James Holmes was given Life not the Death Sentence even though the DA was gunning for it. Even if I think Life in a cage is far worse than death, that judgment is irrelevant to those people that would prefer to live.



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#107574 - 07/14/16 12:44 PM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
What's respect but holding yourself in High Regard? You could also be confident in oneself and your abilities and work a social strategy for your new life in the Clink. It's like that in any tight nit group where you're caught in borders and are forced to cooperate with others for survival. Family is equally Prison.
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#107577 - 07/14/16 08:52 PM Re: Fakers [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
 Quote:
You could also be confident in oneself and your abilities and work a social strategy for your new life in the Clink. It's like that in any tight nit group where you're caught in borders and are forced to cooperate with others for survival


Why do you need support? What's a self-important sociopath you don't know shit about gonna do for you? They could just as easily just as easily give you line and use you.

Get your back in a fight? Gotta earn that backing, and the social strategy (most of the time) is not seeking it out.

The social strategy in prison is also "taking responsibility for yourself". That or be someone's little bitch. There's really no room for a diplomat, and the extent of what LBM can do is far less. You gonna negotiate your way out of getting fucked up?

So bash a tray over someones head, say you're the fucking devil, and ask who else wants some.

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#107578 - 07/14/16 10:49 PM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
I think I'm going retarded...

Let's try that one again...

 Quote:
You could also be confident in oneself and your abilities and work a social strategy for your new life in the Clink. It's like that in any tight nit group where you're caught in borders and are forced to cooperate with others for survival.


Why do you need support? What's a self-important sociopath you don't know shit about gonna do for you? They could just as easily just as easily give you line, use you, and the expend you.

Get your back in a fight? Gotta earn that backing, and the social strategy (most of the time) is not seeking it out.

The best strategy in prison is also "taking responsibility for yourself". That or be someone's little bitch. There's really no room for a diplomat, and the extent of what LBM can do is far less. Are you gonna negotiate your way out of getting fucked up?

So bash a tray over someones head, say you're the fucking devil, and ask who else wants some.

*(double post due to OCD)

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#107579 - 07/15/16 02:39 AM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1145
Loc: San Diego, CA
I posted it again and still fucked it up...

The line in question should read:

They could just as easily feed you bullshit, use you, and then expend you.

OK, I think I got it this time. The final draft.

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#107585 - 07/16/16 09:25 AM Re: Fakers [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CM
So bash a tray over someones head, say you're the fucking devil, and ask who else wants some.


Sort of my point here. If you can convince your audience you are certifiable, that could be useful to you in the struggle to survive. And just surviving can be the pits sometimes, you always want more and can get it with a little ingenuity.
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