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#105610 - 02/20/16 01:47 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3344
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Did I miss some Monty Python shows?

As far as I can tell from all your posts, you're still on.

I don't mind people getting riled up about their cause.
Especially if it involves strapping bombs to ones head and having a jolly good blast.

This makes me wonder when your final push is...
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#105624 - 02/21/16 08:01 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Naama]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2105
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: Naama
Its known that in their "Chaliphate" and around - non-muslims are taxated. That (fact) shows us that there is not really "convert or die" policy.


It's true though the religious minorities like Yazidis and Christians are often forced to leave. One could wonder if exile is such a bad option considering that life under ISIS regime looks like shit; no clean water and illnesses caused by it, shortage of food, shortage and high prices of gas, electricity rarely provided, no internet or mobile phones, indoctrination at schools, punishments for even minor offenses, regular executions etc. However, people are unwilling to leave their homes and lands they lived on for generations. Apart from taxation, non-Muslims sometimes have their property confiscated. Their temples are destroyed and women are captured and sold as slaves. And yeah, killings happen too. Especially Yazidis were massacred for not converting to Islam.

There were two ISIS pamphlets released concerning the rules of treating female slaves and taking the body organs from living non-Muslims. The authenticity of these pamphlets has not been confirmed, however the persecution of religious minorities is a fact.

I use the term ISIS for convenience, it's just more popular though the so-called Islamic State is hardly a state or a Caliphate. It doesn't really matter how you call it. We can call it pink flamingo, it is what it is and it managed to scare the shit out of the Westerners. Is some therapeutic effect going to be achieved if we refer to it as Daesh? Honestly, it smells of insecurity and frustration in my opinion.

 Originally Posted By: Dimi
This makes me wonder when your final push is...


My dear, that's not what I'm paid for. I live to preach because I'm an imam. Whenever I speak, I speak ex cathedra.

Dirty work is left for dirty niggas; unimaginative dimwits forever struggling with their English.


Edited by Czereda (02/21/16 08:04 PM)
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#105631 - 02/22/16 11:10 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Naama]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
Seems Czereda has her fingers in her ears and all "La la la I'm not listening to you!"


I'm fairly certain the points I've written previous were clear.

As for calling them DAESH, why would I do that? I'm not offended by this sort. I'm not concerned with the power principle they are operating under.

Individuals with their own agenda under a common name. Sounds like Satan to me.
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#105641 - 02/22/16 09:43 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2105
Loc: Poland
I'm not sure what you mean. I think I addressed your points. If ISIS is a manifestation of Satan to you, cool. In my opinion, it is not. Moreover, it's much overrated. Are Westerners really afraid of terrorists? Some of them are. However, more often it's just a convenient scarecrow.

I wonder how people brainwashed by ideology can be Satanic. If someone is not a master of his mind, then is he a Satanist? If so, then the term is meaningless. What personal agenda do these people have? The young ones travel to Syria after the exposure to propaganda and are often shocked when seeing reality. The mindfuckers believe their own bullshit, they are enslaved by religious ideas.

As for ISIS defending the their sacred way of life, not true really. Most of the Muslims living under ISIS regime assess it as tyrannical, even those who first welcomed ISIS warriors with open arms. The laws they introduce on the lands they conquer are far more oppressive than the standard Sharia law.
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#105642 - 02/22/16 10:41 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
Bodie45 Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 365
 Originally Posted By: CZ
I wonder how people brainwashed by ideology can be Satanic. If someone is not a master of his mind, then is he a Satanist? If so, then the term is meaningless.


Now this cracks me up...you are the queen of "Satanism can mean anything" and here you are talking about the term as meaningless.

Since "Satan" describes an action, ie: KILL, STEAL and DESTROY. The label fits ISIS like a glove and is currently the real deal as far as Satanic organizations go. I have always wondered where all this "individualism" and "autonomy" comes from as far as Satan is concerned. Unless you buy into all that LaVey crap or any other of those fluffy ass wipe leaders of fraudulent Satan's, there is no such thing.





Edited by Bodie45 (02/22/16 10:49 PM)
Edit Reason: because I can
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#105643 - 02/22/16 11:38 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
JamesSTL Offline
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Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Individuals with their own agenda under a common name. Sounds like Satan to me.


I suppose it all depends on where you're standing. Using the old fashioned force-&-fear approach to implement the Quran as the Constitution of the Land is hardly "heterodox" in the Middle East.

Those kids getting sentenced to death for playing heavy metal in Iran are more adversarial, in my opinion.

I didn't read this whole thread, as usual. Sue me.

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#105644 - 02/23/16 11:18 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CZ
I'm not sure what you mean.


That's rather obvious by your responses.

Brainwashing, Orthodoxy, etc. This assumes the agenda of the individual. Again, perhaps "Militant Islam" is just the uniform.


It would be like saying a white supremacist that seeks to beat down other ethnicities is mind fucked by Mein Kampf. There's other reasons people target minorities that has fuck all to do with Hitler. Some may even adopt a NeoNazi aesthetic because it's provocative and accessible. To dismiss it all away as brain-washing is just lazy and convenient.

Another example would be like saying what makes a Satanist is an abhorrence for Christians and pre-fab religion (i.e. representatives of Tyranny and Slavery blah blah blah). Even if plenty would define it that way, it's not what the thing is or does.



 Originally Posted By: JSTL
Those kids getting sentenced to death for playing heavy metal in Iran are more adversarial, in my opinion.
Get real. Those kids are being put to death and Might Makes Right. Look, this isn't that difficult to understand. Any person can wield tools but build very different things.

Maybe killing these kids just puts out a clear and strong message that anything Western is vile and will be killed off. If you felt that strongly about something, I'd expect you to back it up with deeds.

Foreigners leaving their homelands to join "Militant Islam" isn't just brainwashing. There's already complaints and discontent, putting on a Uniform is easy. Putting it to work, takes action. Even if some get used, pwend, killed, etc. what difference does that make? The individual is impassioned and then seeks a way to express it. Even in death.



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#105646 - 02/23/16 12:17 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
JamesSTL Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Maybe killing these kids just puts out a clear and strong message that anything Western is vile and will be killed off.


Obviously. And the force-&-fear approach to rule/enforcement is the NoMoS of that region/culture/values. Nothing heterodox or adversarial about it. And Islam hardly has a monopoly on such approach(es). Effective, yes. Heterodox? Nah...

Edit1: It's all fun and games until the Man comes around. Yeah, the guy with the gun.

Edit2: Related: The Banality of Evil by Arendt


Edited by JamesSTL (02/23/16 12:29 PM)

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#105647 - 02/23/16 12:50 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: JamesSTL]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
In spite of that region or its cultural values, people get on just fine. Americans so often see a skewed version of reality.

Like I said, if the kids get killed - then that's the natural flow of power. Others, don't seem bothered at all by this conflict.

Why do you think that is?

How do you think Strip Clubs in some of the most conservative areas such as Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon, Morocco, and Saudi Arabia are made possible?
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#105648 - 02/23/16 01:19 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
JamesSTL Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Americans so often see a skewed version of reality.


Although this is a pretty over-generalized statement, you're partly right. Society of the Spectacle and all. Or what did LaVey call that again? "Total environments"?...

However, I think that at least the Americans who really call the plays understand reality quite well. Hence the $700 billion defense budget that makes the Spectacle a living reality.

It gets back to my previous statement about "where you're standing". Awakened in the land of the sleeping, and all that jazz.

As for rag-head strip clubs, the de facto always prevails over the de jure. The Human Artifex is quite the unsustainable structure. Let them dance on poles and suck dicks, so long as they don't learn to read.... oh wait, I'm over-generalizing now, too.

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#105649 - 02/23/16 01:44 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: JamesSTL]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
However, I think that at least the Americans who really call the plays understand reality quite well. Hence the $700 billion defense budget that makes the Spectacle a living reality.

It gets back to my previous statement about "where you're standing". Awakened in the land of the sleeping, and all that jazz.


The Defense Budget alone is a spectacle. A smaller percentage goes to the war machine than you'd imagine. Hell, they approved an expansion of the budget for Homeland Security/NSA on the brink of the intrusion being ruled unconstitutional. The "Militant Islam" threat is an investment, you know damn well it is.

Skewed Reality: Funding Supports the Department of Defense
Actual Reality: Yeah, so guys aboard Navy Ships can build robots out of joint-tape that cost $200 a roll.

As for tax theft, who the hell reports all of their income? The Dudley Do-Right types can pay in if they choose, I'll keep as much as I can get away with.
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#105651 - 02/23/16 05:57 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2105
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
It would be like saying a white supremacist that seeks to beat down other ethnicities is mind fucked by Mein Kampf. There's other reasons people target minorities that has fuck all to do with Hitler. Some may even adopt a NeoNazi aesthetic because it's provocative and accessible. To dismiss it all away as brain-washing is just lazy and convenient.


It's one thing to use something as a tool or part of aesthetics and another to believe the bullshit. Me thinks you're underestimating human stupidity. I meant being brainwashed by the Idea. That doesn't have to involve a specific human agent. If you grow up in certain culture, where extremism tends to grow ripe, you become soaked with ideology, becoming even more radicalized as time passes on. Religious extremism is hardly antinomian in Arabic countries, where most people, even if they don't "indulge" in extremist actions, still have extremist views.

 Quote:
The individual is impassioned and then seeks a way to express it.


There is a difference between passion and obsession. For example, one guy is passionate about his studies, he puts all his heart in it and loves it. Still he finds time for his family and socializing. This is passion. Another guy loves his job to the point he becomes obsessed with it, spends his whole days there without having time for anything. This is obsession. The boundary between the two is very thin but you will know them by their fruits. Passion expands the mind, makes you more creative, gives you some insight. Obsession narrows down the scope of your mind. You focus only on one thing till you become devoured by it.

The same is with ideas. It's one thing to be fascinated with some idea, another thing is to be possessed by it. It's testable i.e., see how one expresses the idea. The brainwashed people, enslaved by some ideology, have that extremely polarized, black and white picture of the world. They don't see all the shades of grey in between, not to mention the full spectrum of colors. Islam is good, Americans are bad. Native Europeans good, immigrants bad. Or the other way round. Besides, mere passion doesn't switch off reason.

This is why I'm not convinced as to their "Satanicness."

 Originally Posted By: Bodie45
Since "Satan" describes an action, ie: KILL, STEAL and DESTROY.


Where the fuck did you get that from? Who knows? You can be ripe enough to become compost new generations of diabolical warriors will grow on.

 Quote:
I have always wondered where all this "individualism" and "autonomy" comes from as far as Satan is concerned.


So what are you waiting for? Pack your bags and move to Syria. Sacrifice your meaningless life for the new "paradise" on earth. Hell, why don't you?

 Quote:
Unless you buy into all that LaVey crap or any other of those fluffy ass wipe leaders of fraudulent Satan's blah blah...


And you don't buy into the crap, not at all.
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#105772 - 03/06/16 11:27 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
IronWizard Offline
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Registered: 11/25/15
Posts: 37
No. Satanism is a Pagan belief, and anything Satanic would have to have ties to something before any anrahamic religion. Many don't recognise Satanism as a Pagan belief, but it actually is, as it spawned before judaism. Now, the term "Luciferian" is a bit different. This means "enlightened and free thinking". Militant extremist islam (or islam in general) is pretty much the opposite of anything Luciferian. I saw someone compare groups like ISIS to Nazis, but this is not a very good comparison. ISIS wants to basically force islamic values over the world. Nothing Luciferian about that at all. Nazis are not really Luciferian either, but they are closer to being Luciferian than militant islamists...

My point is that ISIS is basically as far as you can get from Satanism.

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#105775 - 03/07/16 10:25 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 7190
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
It's one thing to use something as a tool or part of aesthetics and another to believe the bullshit.


What bullshit is that? As stated, some of these people that joined already had beef, held ideals, and ISIS (and groups like them) just become a suitable uniform.

 Quote:
Me thinks you're underestimating human stupidity.


And I think you've dismissed it too quickly without any actual thought put into it.

 Quote:
I meant being brainwashed by the Idea. That doesn't have to involve a specific human agent. If you grow up in certain culture, where extremism tends to grow ripe, you become soaked with ideology, becoming even more radicalized as time passes on.
It's not radical, it's normalized and part of your cultural lineage. Sort of like how Poles feel about the Third Reich

 Quote:
Religious extremism is hardly antinomian in Arabic countries, where most people, even if they don't "indulge" in extremist actions, still have extremist views.


You'd better take another look. Even in Arabic Speaking countries, some activities are over the top, and are un-Orthodox practices.

 Quote:
There is a difference between passion and obsession.


Is there? Being impassioned is more akin to fanaticism than you're willing to admit.
 Quote:
For example, one guy is passionate about his studies, he puts all his heart in it and loves it. Still he finds time for his family and socializing. This is passion. [/quotes]

Is it? Sounds more like duty.


[quote]Another guy loves his job to the point he becomes obsessed with it, spends his whole days there without having time for anything. This is obsession.
This is most people, only we call them 'workaholics'.


 Quote:

The boundary between the two is very thin but you will know them by their fruits. Passion expands the mind, makes you more creative, gives you some insight. Obsession narrows down the scope of your mind. You focus only on one thing till you become devoured by it.


Nah, some of the most prolific artists are 'obsessed' as you say... America's first Patriots, equally obsessed. Do you think it's a game?

 Quote:
The same is with ideas. It's one thing to be fascinated with some idea, another thing is to be possessed by it. It's testable i.e., see how one expresses the idea. The brainwashed people, enslaved by some ideology, have that extremely polarized, black and white picture of the world. They don't see all the shades of grey in between, not to mention the full spectrum of colors. Islam is good, Americans are bad. Native Europeans good, immigrants bad. Or the other way round. Besides, mere passion doesn't switch off reason.


So you say, I disagree and think you lack perspective.

 Quote:
This is why I'm not convinced as to their "Satanicness."


Because you and I are speaking two different languages.

Even if some Westerners have joined and been used as pawns, it doesn't mean some haven't successfully integrated for their own ends. It also doesn't mean every rebel is just a mind-fucked obsessed slave. In contrast, the 'Satanicness' is obvious. Otherwise the remaining 99% of Muslims would be involved in active revolt, blowing shit up and killing people.
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#105798 - 03/08/16 07:41 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Offline
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 2105
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
What bullshit is that? As stated, some of these people that joined already had beef, held ideals, and ISIS (and groups like them) just become a suitable uniform.


Brainwashing doesn't have to mean implanting brand new ideas in people's heads. Actually, in most cases it isn't.

Putting on a uniform? Hardly. More like pouring the water into a vessel of a desirable shape.

Giving rigid order to the chaos in your head.

Anyway, I think I made myself clear. Let's agree to disagree.
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