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#57235 - 07/20/11 08:53 PM Is Militant Islam Satanic?
Sean the Mystic Offline
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Registered: 07/05/11
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I’ve heard many Christian fundamentalists say things like "Islam is of the devil", and when I look at it with more Satanically aware eyes, I’m starting to see their point. The Muslim militants, with their black flags and clothes, apocalyptic rhetoric, beheadings, terrorism, etc. do seem to have a very dark, Satanic current behind them. Their aggressive, Nazi-like energy is the opposite of Judeo-Christian goodness and light and cheek-turning, which I actually find somewhat refreshing compared to the pathetic ideology of our modern Western leaders. So is radical Islam a Satanic manifestation, or am I misreading Islam and/or Satanism?

Edited by Sean the Mystic (07/20/11 09:30 PM)
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#57240 - 07/20/11 10:33 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Satanism advocates placing the individual at the centre of his or her own unique universe.

He or she therefore becomes the first and final source for ultimately determining whether he or she will do this and not do that; and for determining what is right and wrong or what is good and evil.

If you cut the head off God, then you only really have one choice left: you must assume this Godhood yourself, along with its right to determine and the responsibility and the consequences it entails.

If you are a Muslim then you are effectively saying that there is a theist based metaphysical reality outside of me which I subscribe to.

This reality has a set of rules which I also follow.

In the case of Islam, some people are prepared to die for this outside reality and its set of rules - not Satanic at all.


Edited by MatthewJ1 (07/20/11 10:36 PM)

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#57241 - 07/20/11 11:20 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Those who do not learn form history are doomed to repeat it.

"The Muslim militants, with their black flags and clothes, apocalyptic rhetoric, beheadings, terrorism, etc. do seem to have a very dark, Satanic current behind them.....Their aggressive, Nazi-like energy is the opposite of Judeo-Christian goodness and light and cheek-turning, which I actually find somewhat refreshing compared to the pathetic ideology of our modern Western leaders"

Same stuff different century with the catholic church during the Crusades, inquisition, and the witch burnings.

They are still working with feverant aggression to hide clean up the child abuse mess that certain priests have carried on for years.

I don't think the catholic or xitan church was ever really about goodnees and light. It was and still is about power, control, and money.

Fundamentalists of any ilk tend to call their supposed opposite or enemies "Satan or The Devil" By scapegoating other groups of people it shift the blame and attention from themselves into a supposed smaller weaker group. It also works to rally a group around a common controllable enemy.

Aww, padawan, you still have so much to read...

Morgan
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#57243 - 07/21/11 12:25 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Morgan]
Sean the Mystic Offline
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I guess I think of Satanism as the opposite of the Christian *ideal* as described by Jesus, not as practiced by the church. Your version seems to be mostly a form of individualism and hedonism. To me this is "Rock and Roll Satanism" or "Satanism Lite." I think of Satanism as embodying everything that is dark, forbidden and frightening, and I find nothing darker and more frightening than collective evil. One person can be very diabolical, but millions of people acting in unison to commit evil acts is Satanic on a whole different level.
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#57245 - 07/21/11 12:33 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
The following words affirm value, regarding life affirming ideals, and in no way is there a design to even residually represent Islam or Satanism in relation to one another or otherwise; these words are merely conjecture with positive aims of honour conferred that is of no design to negatively influence nor to be otherwise influential in subtext with my best efforts to avoid wording that may be twisted and subverted by racists.

I reserve the right for free speech and oppose all violence towards women of all races, creeds and religions. I oppose indiscriminately, misogyny and child abuse, all connotations with Islam or Satanism notwithstanding.

Christian fundamentalists would murmur utterances like "Islam is of the Devil" simply because the noble and strong will be regarded as such by slave moralists. A version of Islam is influenced by slave morality imposed by the western paradigm, but the apparent Philistine aesthetic of beige brown is more about Judeo-Christian lack of ideology and philosophy. Islamic black uniform is something that the west regards as evil due to selecting despicable acts to represent what is otherwise a noble majority of Islam. I'm not Muslim and therefore cannot speak for Muslims nor against. I just have a thing for cultural aesthetic, ideology and philosophy, and so confer value to what I can see past media representation, by thinking for myself.

Organised religion can be a group expression of the will to power (WtP). Whether this is direct in the case of radical Islam or disguised a la Judeo-Christanity is not important, what is important, is to recognise that the east is not playing games of moral blackmail.

Islam is Islam and nothing else. Terrorism is terrorism and nothing else. Imams and mosques do their best to work against crime, which is prohibited in Islam. Saying Islam is Satanic is an ambiguous and most unclear assertion that may imposition confusion and negativity; Satanism is radical individualism that can vary vastly in ideology and philosophy, for better or worse, disordered on a mass scale with no formalised doctrine as to what is noble; this being decided by the individual whom can never stand as exemplary of a group as Satanism, itself, is radical individualism. Personally, I feel the liberal attitude of 60's Satanism to be inadequate as substitute for Nietzschean ideas and classical Indo-European values. Anyone who inexplicably feels what is behind Indo-European values knows what honour means.

We have respectable and private Muslim folk whom go about their daily lives with respect to their families and community as would any respectable person who has noble ideology and philosophy, for instance, such as Asatru, Wotan.

The unpleasant reality is that the highest values devalue themselves; with the west abounds with alcohol and drug fuelled behaviour; casual, masturbatory sex with intoxicated women whom line up in bars to offer their services to all and every shambles of a man. An indelible ignominy on fatherlands and heritage.

Muslims are not Judeo-Christians or Satanists. Considering that "racist neo-Nazism" is a slag corruption of racialist National Socialism now carrying many negative connotations and negative followers in its "modernised" form, the most powerful ideological movement is undoubtedly Islam. Regardless if anyone in the west likes it or not. The disguised form of WtP called Judeo-Christian morality only serves to present the west as cowardly, dishonourable and ignoble to militant Muslims who abide by honour and warrior ethos.

Satanist ought to respect and uphold warrior code and respectable dialogue; for those drawn into conflicts are husbands, fathers on all sides. Considering that I'm not a Judeo-Christian or illiterate Atheist, I hold cold wrath to both the west and the east in equal measure of indifference; for religious fuelled conflict draws mindful civilians, womenfolk, and even children into affray.

Basically I can't stand dishonourableness; backbiting politicians, whereas we ought to value man to man conflict resolution through heartfelt dialogue, asserting values and recognising those values in other cultures, rather than naysaying insecurity. This would path the way of respect and value for separate cultures.

As not to posit that either the west or east is superior, we are all individuals to be judged by our deeds exemplary of nobility. I simply remain disinterested in black and white mentality, instead regarding personal strength and honour to be all pervasive over anything that would be a substitution.

Only the will to power causes everything to do what it does, there is no need to formalise things beyond recognising its outward manifestations, and right now, Islam is mobilised much more efficiently than rag tag groups of racists lacking ideology and philosophy as to their own roots.

The west is composed of illiterate, immoral, drinking and drug taking wasters and the other half is composed of Judeo-Christian cowards. There is no honour to be found in this place, the Judeo-Christian conspiracy continues to morally dehumanise the indigenous European heritage by impositioning its negative shadow projections of its Judeo-Christianity, racism, black and white thinking, etc.

As National Socialism is littered with negative connotations, due to whatsoever formalisation we could summarise; regardless, from my angle, I can't see Asatru being more than a residually influential ideological and philosophical life motivation in the west. This is unfortunate. Nor can I see any residual evidence that there are godless heathen willing to mobilise noble Vikingr, patriarchal / matriarchal classical indo-European, or otherwise respectable multiracial communities.

On the positive side, what we do have is uprising Muslim men whom take pride in their heritage after opening their eyes to the subterranean tyranny of the Judeo-Christian menace.

Considering we as humans have the power of speech to assert our strength of values, there is no excuse for naysaying and negative attitude or being blind to what is positive in other cultures.

A noble display of power gains respect, character gains respect, and so equilibrium is achieved. We can observe this in the animal kingdom with wolves baring teeth creating a natural aristocracy, males working together toward the same goals, tribes are separate and yet no deliberate act of intrusion on territory is made, so conflict of their own kind is only by mistake.

But unfortunately, in western society, for the most part, we can observe what is more like a shambling pecking order of cowardly chickens pecking at each others backs; the noble knows that nothing is so dishonourable as a much to vulgar a display of power, and if you cannot feel what is behind this, then you are not of my kind.
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#57247 - 07/21/11 01:25 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Hegesias]
Sean the Mystic Offline
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So if I understand you correctly, you’re suggesting that people who dislike the modern West for the reasons you describe should unite under the banner of Islam, because it’s the only force powerful enough to prevent the world from turning into a degenerate, nihilistic consumer capitalist dystopia?

I can sympathize with that, but what does it have to do with Satanism? I thought the US was the "Great Satan" precisely because it promotes individualism, hedonism, the overthrow of all traditional values and cultures, etc. Whose side are you on here?


Edited by Sean the Mystic (07/21/11 01:29 AM)
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#57248 - 07/21/11 01:52 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I refute that remark.

Please read again and make an effort to provide a thesis that makes sense in regards to what I have written.

If your aim is to imposition negativism to the impenetrable positivity of my views in their precise context then I can provide all the sisyphean frustration in the world by simply redirecting you and others to re read and contemplate that there is no banner to unite under for individualists except to be exemplary of nobility by deeds and only deeds.

There is no banner to unite under except to value what is positive, to express interest and likemindedness of values by seeing past the superficiality of outward appearance.

Communication is the issue. Unfortunately, people refuse to trust in communication and take to arms before attempting to understand people they have never met.

If one cannot make respectable dialogue with others in the streets then you have failed to understand the meaning of my post. it is YOU who confers respect, YOU who makes the effort to communicate with people who are around you regardless of race, creed and religion. Not the ideas imposed as actual reality by politicians.

Fuck Judeo-Christian politicians and fuck the Judeo-Christian media. It's the people in the streets who matter, Whites, Blacks, Asians. There is no divide but selective ignorance imposed by the state who spreads fear about what is only ourselves.

Value other cultures, don't become them or try to naysay them. Be your OWN and be exemplary of your own values. Negativity is not a value, it can only be devalued by asserting positivity. Maybe if people learned to be upfront and learned to actually speak with eachother then we'd not have such an embarrassing planet.

I always shake my head when somebody won't listen to reason, it's a damn shame to put a man down, not something I've ever saw value in doing. Sometimes people won't trust one another's positive intent, we can only show masculinity and dominate such negativity with positivity and motivation towards value. You know, good old male bonding, relaxed manliness, health, appreciation of females, our mothers, our sisters, and theirs.

There's no room for nervous people in such an atmosphere. Who creates such an atmosphere? I don't know, figure it out. It's certainly not politicians.

Satanists may now make fun and posture that I'm some kind of weak man. I've a criminal history of GBH with intent to kill thanks to unavoidable retaliation to drunks, druggies, sociopaths, and other scum of the west. I've never harmed a lady in my life. You see. There is nothing to judge a man by but his deeds. Open your eyes.
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#57250 - 07/21/11 02:25 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Hegesias]
a. don Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
"I’ve heard many Christian fundamentalists say things like "Islam is of the devil""

Needless to say, Islam and Satanism (especially Laveyan) are diametrically opposed in doctrine. As a matter of fact, Satanism is opposed to most fundamentalist theistic doctrines (Abrahamic doctrines specifically) .

Apparently you've drawn a parallelism to the "demonizing" of something in a Christian society (in the Western Civilization for the most part) to the actual practices or beliefs of the LHP. For example, what is Satanic about the self-sacrifice common to militant Islam?

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#57251 - 07/21/11 02:32 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Time for humour. I get this way when I perceive utter absurdity in over complication with what is clearly common sense.

The very fact that humans are the only species to attack their own kind and also don't eat the bodies is absurd and most indicative to other wasteful acts of humanity. I'm not advocating cannibalism because I'm not advocating killing humans in the first place, to me the two must go together.

I'm simply suggesting that the act of war itself is more absurd and inhumane than salting the bodies resulting of war and sending them as food for the third world.

Humanity is fucked through the absurdity of its own intelligence. Animals respect their own kind in a way humans can't seem to grasp.

Sure we eat meat, we are hunter gatherers, we don't hunt nowadays, all that pent up aggression must go some place... so true.
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#57252 - 07/21/11 02:44 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: a. don]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: a. don
"I’ve heard many Christian fundamentalists say things like "Islam is of the devil""

Needless to say, Islam and Satanism (especially Laveyan) are diametrically opposed in doctrine. As a matter of fact, Satanism is opposed to most fundamentalist theistic doctrines (Abrahamic doctrines specifically) .

Apparently you've drawn a parallelism to the "demonizing" of something in a Christian society (in the Western Civilization for the most part) to the actual practices or beliefs of the LHP. For example, what is Satanic about the self-sacrifice common to militant Islam?



We are affirming value. Thank you for your contribution.

When it comes to politics, I'm all about down to earth human communication. Everything else is utterly worthless to me.

We are not suicidal nor does a Muslim have to be, if the west, stop making those men so desperate. It's not me who's prancing all over sacred Sumeria and rattling the cage of Muslim home life, nor is it the idea of soldiers. The Muslim males come here with their families being extremely protective.

Nothing makes me more justified to deal hostility than trouble makers who cause shit for others. The western government calls war and then the civilians get drawn into the afray, Muslims, Whites, I don't give a fuck, we are all just trying to get on with our lives in the shit that sheltered political minds cause.

Guy Fawkes was pissed off in the same way methinks. Better still, if you see a Muslim in the street, speak to him and ask him how his day was, show genuine manners. I hope the evil and dark Satanic image created in your mind will allow such a deed to be done without fear. Or will you follow what media stirs up?
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#57253 - 07/21/11 03:00 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Hegesias]
a. don Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
First of all, I never made any mention about whether or not the West has done terrible things in the world and that there are reactionary groups to such. I believe the topic is about whether or not Militant Islam, that is, the doctrines of Islam enforced through violence is Satanic. You would probably do good if you made your own post about the abuses of the West, and the reactions to such.

Second, I would like for you to elaborate on the assertion that atheists are illiterate, and therefore you have not chosen to align yourself with such, even though, however, that would be far away from the subject...

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#57254 - 07/21/11 03:01 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I agree with Morg here: I think a good deal of reading is in order.

There is of course plenty of good stuff to read here, but I think the point could be made that many of the discussions and debates here are being carried out by very experienced and knowledgeable people with differing, sophisticated and complex viewpoints.

This is not meant to be offensive to you. I am just recommending an intensive study of the bedrock basics, so you can come at this with a more thorough grounding.

I would therefore recommend that you look at or re-look at Dr. LaVey’s published works and go to the Church of Satan website and read everything there, particularly the ‘Theory/Practice’ section and their introductory/welcome messages. I would also read the threads at the ‘Questions about the Church of Satan’ forum at the ‘Letters to the Devil’ website.

http://www.churchofsatan.com/

http://www.satannet.com/forum/ubbthreads.php

You may dislike H.P. Peter Gilmore and some other C/S members there, many here do, but I think it would still be valuable for you, as a means of just getting their position down. I still tend to think their position is the basic bedrock position.

On the other hand, I would also recommend reading Dr Michael Aquino’s Church of Satan ebook, which presents a different and very well articulated viewpoint, with an enormous wealth of additional material in the form of its appendices. Many of these appendices are gold from a learning point of view.

http://www.xeper.org/maquino/

You may also want to look at the written works of Mr. Long and what the Order of the Nine Angles are saying as well, as a means of having another viewpoint on this.

http://www.nineangles.info/

I think this study would be well worth it for you, and it would give you two or three basic positions with which to work from.

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#57256 - 07/21/11 03:12 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: a. don]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: a. don
First of all, I never made any mention about whether or not the West has done terrible things in the world and that there are reactionary groups to such. I believe the topic is about whether or not Militant Islam, that is, the doctrines of Islam enforced through violence is Satanic. You would probably do good if you made your own post about the abuses of the West, and the reactions to such.

Second, I would like for you to elaborate on the assertion that atheists are illiterate, and therefore you have not chosen to align yourself with such, even though, however, that would be far away from the subject...



Good points to raise. \:\)

There is no mention of atheists being illiterate as a whole but that I personally am not one. That Atheist persons with ideological and philosophical motivations was discussed in detail as to what is so valuable about this. There is a distinction and the tone of the unpleasant reality about such people lacking in numbers may not be sympathetic to some, but so be it.

If you would care to look further into my view you will see that there is the juxtaposed view of indo-European value existing in the west, and that I can affirm a lacking of its presence.

This is only a positive affirmation as to highlight the cause to concern for giving such values momentum.

Illiterate atheists would be atheists whom have not affirmed what is Judeo-Christian thinking in their own minds, simply regarding themselves as atheists by dismissing the praying aspect of Judeo-Christianity, and therefore, being its controlled opposition. Passive nihilism, drunks, druggies etc. cunts you know, see?

I would take command of this thread by outlining positive value and conferring such left right and centre, it's master morality, if you see value in what I say, then top it, I'll fall in line. The way this thread could go into negativity is not desirable. Considering that Satanists are radical individualists, it would surprise me to see Satanists seeing in black and white being unable to talk to religious people in the street.

All the talk and learning about this and that means nothing to real life communication, its only people in the streets, there isn't anything else. Everyone holds responsibility to do this. What some Satanists mean by individualism is hiding from the world and being cowardly, quite opposite of Nietzsche's teachings.

Negativity cannot assert itself, only attempt to bring down. Positivity is strength and is beyond good and evil, it comes from your own being and ability to be motivated strongly by what we value. I'm no ones enemy here, so write powerful and positive things, we are the Satanists of now.

There is only what YOU can do in real life, what is the point in murmuring about Islam being Satanic or not? There's no such thing in the real world, only people, sorry it's all not glamorous and stimulating for roleplay internet requirements.

Again, I'm nobodies enemy here, I have high values and I'm aggressive to assert what can only bring about positivity, there is no intent to do anything otherwise.

Islam is Islam, terrorism is terrorism. They are not one in the same but for outward appearance. If you are deceived, this is what terrorists do.

The hammer speaks. \:\)
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#57257 - 07/21/11 06:20 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
No.
Islam, being it militant or not, is Islam and therfor cannot be linked to Satanism or even be Satanic. Their "ways" are linked towards a cause which is at the same side of those Satanism opposes. It does not mean we cannot copy those ways for other causes that can be called Satanic.

On another note; I think you fell for the media circus about Islam. Islam and Christianity both share the same ideas of light and peace etc.. There are a few fundamental differences which you can only get if you know a bit about their cultural history or have resided in a country in the middle-east.
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#57261 - 07/21/11 09:46 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Dimitri]
Jason King Offline
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Those who mistakenly believe they can use "militant Islam" as a tool to drive the Sinister agenda JUST DON'T GET IT. Any cognizant LHPer should be striving for the neutering of Islam (and all dogmatic systems). Replacing one tyranny with an infinitely worse tyranny is not smart, clever, or even manipulative. It is suicide plain and simple.

JK
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#57262 - 07/21/11 10:06 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jason King]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
 Quote:
Replacing one tyranny with an infinitely worse tyranny is not smart, clever, or even manipulative. It is suicide plain and simple.


I'm inclined to agree with the first sentence on a personal level, but with regards to the the quoted section it really comes down to whether or not the individual so using the causal form believes that fundamentalist Islam could replace anything.


As a causal form that promotes people being disruptive and bombing shit and costing the State a large amount of money chasing it down - it is effective. The aim isn't to create an 'Islamic State' but rather to use whatever means work to cause pain to the current status quo.

Though, ideology aside, the effect of fundamentalist Islam has hardly been effective in that regard - military budgets are higher, tighter controls of the populace are in effect (the patriot act, European Terrorism laws, etc.) and the intelligence services have greater reach to track and monitor. All in all, it's done nothing but strengthen the state by providing an obvious enemy. I don't have an issue with the idea of using it, I just don't think the execution of such will ever meaningfully transpire. The genius of the State is that it thrives on the appearance of external threat. After all, 'United We Stand' came about as a result of 9/11 and never have people been more united under the common banner of slavery.

MF



Edited by MindFux (07/21/11 10:07 AM)
Edit Reason: because it just has to happen.

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#57263 - 07/21/11 10:37 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: MindFux]
Jason King Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MindFux
As a causal form that promotes people being disruptive and bombing shit and costing the State a large amount of money chasing it down - it is effective.


It's all fun-n-games until you get caught in the crossfire. The USA (by way of "smart" CIA activity) learned this lesson on 9/11. Sometimes, when you feed the Tyger, you end up being Roy Horn.

JK
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#57268 - 07/21/11 12:09 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I know you might have been told that there is no such thing as a stupid question. But the truth of the matter is that there is. And you just asked one.

Islam is a slave religion. Just like its Judeo-Christian counterparts. There is nothing Satanic about living in subservience to something outside the self. Especially a non-existent god.

Just because you consider something "evil" does not mean it is Satanic.

Now please, stop asking stupid questions.
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#57272 - 07/21/11 01:05 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Sean the Mystic Offline
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Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 16
I'm just Forrest Gump wandering into a Satanism forum asking naive questions. \:\)

I get the points about Islam being a slave religion, submission to something outside the self, etc. However, my self desires unlimited power, it desires to be Hitler and make others submit to my will, and I have a hard time reconciling that with the libertarian notions being espoused here. I like the Antichrist as a model of a pure Satanist, but what I'm hearing here suggests that such an entity would be most unwelcome at a gathering of modern "do your own thing" Satanists. Apparently the notion of a Satanic Army of the Apocalypse is an oxymoron, by this definition. Thank you for clarifying these matters.


Edited by Sean the Mystic (07/21/11 01:14 PM)
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"Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'. Only egotism exists." --H.P. Lovecraft

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#57279 - 07/21/11 04:48 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Lamar Offline
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Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Alabama
With all respect, I would refrain from posting further until you get the basics of Satanism down. You seem to be viewing things in extremes - of white and black. The nature of the Adversary is not merely invirted Christianity. In regards to "unlimited power" you would do better to attain things much more realistic.
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#57281 - 07/21/11 05:07 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Lamar]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Power may possibly mean something different for different individuals.

An all pervasive sense of humour can become the darkest principle. \:\)
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#57292 - 07/22/11 07:52 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: MindFux]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
All in all, it's done nothing but strengthen the state by providing an obvious enemy. I don't have an issue with the idea of using it, I just don't think the execution of such will ever meaningfully transpire. The genius of the State is that it thrives on the appearance of external threat. After all, 'United We Stand' came about as a result of 9/11 and never have people been more united under the common banner of slavery.


Agreed - but the tyrannical response (like Homeland Security and the Patriot Act) together with the now exposed hypocrisy of and lies about rendition, torture, the killing of civilians by drones, and the aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan, have all served to reveal, to the sagacious, the true nature of the beast that is *Amrika*.

These things have also sowed seeds of hatred and mistrust - for *Amrika* - around the world, which can't be that bad \:\)

That the greatest military machine in the world, with complete control of the air and advanced comms and a budget of a trillion or more, hasn't been able to defeat the poorly equipped Taliban, after ten years of fighting, hasn't gone unnoticed in non-Western lands either.

So in terms of Chaos, and disruption, there's some good news.

That mundanes are so easily duped and manipulated and do what they're told - and go fight and/or support the new tyranny - was expected.

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#57297 - 07/22/11 09:14 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Jason King Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon
That the greatest military machine in the world, with complete control of the air and advanced comms and a budget of a trillion or more, hasn't been able to defeat the poorly equipped Taliban, after ten years of fighting, hasn't gone unnoticed in non-Western lands either.


Indeed (x2). Didn't feel like a bold. No, but seriously there is only so much that can be accomplished with limited technology. I've often wondered to myself why there hasn't been a serial killer of genuine magnitude. All the "greats" have been small scale. And the "Islamic threat" has been likewise. Perhaps if someone took your shit (or their shit) seriously enough, and if either hypothetical person had half a brain, (s)he could kill 100-200 "mundanes" before they got lynched.

Now granted, militant Islam has killed more than a meager 200, but here's the rub - when you do it all at once, and only sparsely often, it won't hit the "mundane" zeitgeist the way it could. A single dude, armed with little more than a blade and some latexes could instill far more fear (if that's what the goal is). Just look at how the "beltway snipers" commanded greater fear in late 2001 than Al-Quaeda. It's not about how many people you cull, it's about HOW you do so.

But I'm sure you know this all, Sister. If a terrorist (or whatever) wanted to do a resonant DEED, they should plan a strike at least two years in advance. The best target would be the hard one: State of the Union (i.e. most marks in the smallest confined space). A janitor might be better suited than a fake aide. Ah, it's all Sun Tzu. But there would have to be one dude ready to die. 'Cause (s)he ain't gettin' out alive. Perhaps there is one thing we/you/whoever can learn from the Muslims . . .

JK
_________________________



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#57299 - 07/22/11 09:46 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jason King]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
Indeed (x2).

Aw shucks! And there's me thinking we might have a good friendly tryst, again ;\)

 Originally Posted By: Jason King
All the "greats" have been small scale. And the "Islamic threat" has been likewise.

Ah something to dispute! 9/11 involved some 3,000 deaths, masterminded by one man.

Now, if they could get hold of some biological weapons or a nuke, then it might be game on.

 Originally Posted By: Jason King
Now granted, militant Islam has killed more than a meager 200, but here's the rub - when you do it all at once, and only sparsely often, it won't hit the "mundane" zeitgeist the way it could.

Well, as I see it (E&EO) you've got to consider the time-scale - like as in centuries, which I think is what Anton Long and Co (O9A Corp) work on.

Which I guess means considering among many other things how the *third world* reacts and will develop, and how you slowly slowly (catchee monkee) disrupt things from within the nations of the *west*.

Over to you.

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#57300 - 07/22/11 10:05 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
Jason King Offline
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Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
No, Sister, you do it all at once. Read some Kuhn (philosophy of science, but relevant).

Here's what I'm saying, and what I have been saying: If anyone wants to GENUINELY (all caps) step up to the machine/mundane failplex/etc., they can do so with greater effect than has been done to fore. It might take a team of FIFTEEN dudes/chicks/whatever to legitimately force the US system to go to that dude hiding out during the SotU (usually the 5-6th dude in line). And maybe about 200 grand, but who's countin'? And we'd need a janitor on the inside in any case.

In any case, this shit needs to go to some trivial e-mail exchange (i.e. not Yahoo, Google, etc.) if you're serious. They don't scope shit all day every day, but a real Plan needs much less visibility . . .

JK
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#57302 - 07/22/11 10:30 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jason King]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
a real Plan needs much less visibility

Well all I (and O9A Corp ho-hum) can say is this - that the *status quo* (which includes Amrika) have a short term, causal and more importantly reactive, view, while *we* take the longer aeonic (acausal) perspective.

But it's prolly it's our descendants who'll find out, not us.

Again, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

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#57306 - 07/22/11 10:59 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
 Quote:

Agreed - but the tyrannical response (like Homeland Security and the Patriot Act) together with the now exposed hypocrisy of and lies about rendition, torture, the killing of civilians by drones, and the aggression in Iraq and Afghanistan, have all served to reveal, to the sagacious, the true nature of the beast that is *Amrika*.


The sagacious will already have been well aware of it. The US's actions in Somalia, and more obviously South America have been tyrannical and absurd to the extreme going back to the early 60s (in the case of SA). The issue is that those who can see it for what it is, invariably write about it (Chomsky being a reasonable example) but those that read it dismiss it as being 'beyond them'.

 Quote:

These things have also sowed seeds of hatred and mistrust - for *Amrika* - around the world, which can't be that bad \:\)


Agreed 100%, but it has done nothing to weaken the US.

 Quote:

That the greatest military machine in the world, with complete control of the air and advanced comms and a budget of a trillion or more, hasn't been able to defeat the poorly equipped Taliban, after ten years of fighting, hasn't gone unnoticed in non-Western lands either.


And much like in Vietnam before this one, it's unlikely it will prove anything except that the Taliban is proving on a smaller scale what Al-Queda has proven on a larger scale. No single power relying on a stronger and more technologically advanced standing army can fight a guerrilla war against an entire population (in the sense that who is on who's side is impossible to discern without local knowledge that will never be forthcoming). Al-Queda demonstrates this on a global scale - there is no country called 'terrorist' and the largest standing army in the world won't change a damned thing.

The problem with acts of 'terror' is that they don't work in terms of disrupting a culture, they have been proven to, time and time again reinforce it. Orwell very rightly pointed out that the constant impression of attack from the outside, or threat is the best way of keeping a population enslaved, or submitting to a state which seems 'protective'. It's the ultimate catch 22. JK raised an interesting point re: the snipers. The problem is though, it didn't result in people going out, getting guns and looking out for their own, it resulted in people running to the cops and crying that the state wasn't protecting them. It resulted in no fewer than 6 new restrictions on the availability of firearms.

Sure there's the argument, 'well a population won't take that kind of shit forever', but sadly that's not true. Like a frog in slowly heated water, and with the right 'justification' in the form of 'you need protecting' it's fucking easy to enslave a population. When the Patriot act passed, peopled didn't mourn, they celebrated.

The only thing that motivates a 'mundane' into action is their own massive discomfort. The best hope for that is the collapse of the already crippled US economy, in my view. Blowing shit up just provides solidarity and it always has. (Shit look at the 'stiff upper lip' in the IRA days over in the UK).


 Quote:

That mundanes are so easily duped and manipulated and do what they're told - and go fight and/or support the new tyranny - was expected.


Indeed.

MF

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#57307 - 07/22/11 11:18 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Nazarene society devalues itself as a whole and appreciates nothing except disposable contentments, eachother included, a kind of masturbatory abnormality syndrome. Compulsive material greed, consumerism cacoethes. Morbidly obese mental sloths.

I lack empathy and still I have intimate disgust for humanity.

I'm trying to figure out what aspect of humanity is the most psychologically disgusting and abnormal. Religious frigidity or illiterate whoredom?

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#57311 - 07/22/11 12:23 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: MindFux]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
The problem with acts of 'terror' ...

Personally, I don't see a *problem*. There is action and enjoying it, with the promise possibly of it aiding the sinister dialectic, or there is inaction because one has thought too much (or whatever).

So what if such action results in some blah blah from those who don't act? So what if it doesn't even cause some (acausal) effects? The Satanism is in the defiance, the action.

Exult. Just do. Laugh. Enjoy. Defy. Be exeatic. And if - just if - it has some acausal affects, then that's simply a bonus, IMO.

EOF.

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#57321 - 07/22/11 01:50 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jason King]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17

In any case, this shit needs to go to some trivial e-mail exchange (i.e. not Yahoo, Google, etc.) if you're serious. They don't scope shit all day every day, but a real Plan needs much less visibility . . .

JK [/quote]

are we getting cozy with the ONA 2.0 now lol
making big plans?
they ripped you a new one now you think they want an exchange via some email that can be cracked as your broadcasting it anyway lol
I hope you don't turn in to one of them dupes the fbi give fake bombs to lmfao!





Edited by nightowl (07/22/11 01:51 PM)

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#57322 - 07/22/11 02:14 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
Jason King Offline
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
are we getting cozy with the ONA 2.0 now lol


Nah, just getting cozy with some socks. ONA 2.0 is one person with about twenty pseudonyms. Sure, there are a couple dudes who bought in, but for such an effort, you'd think there would have been a lot more.

And btw, I'd get that checked if I were you . . .

JK
_________________________



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#57325 - 07/22/11 02:41 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
MindFux Offline
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Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
 Quote:

So what if such action results in some blah blah from those who don't act? So what if it doesn't even cause some (acausal) effects? The Satanism is in the defiance, the action.


Doing something for the simple joy, terror/experience of it is one thing and naturally has its place, however that's not what was under discussion. The political effectiveness of Islam as a 'Satanic' concept was. I never called into question what one can learn, achieve, enjoy, partake of while engaged in such activities for those purposes, my point was merely that for any aeonic purpose it's a bust IMO.

So sure if you snip my comment to remove the context in which I foresee a 'problem' then you can add whichever conclusion you so wish, but it just makes it a soliloquy. ;\)

If you want to get into a discussion on the worth of Islam as a 'heresy', or a mode of obtaining Pathei Mathos then that's a separate item but one that I also find contentious for a different reason.

MF.





Edited by MindFux (07/22/11 02:43 PM)
Edit Reason: adding last paragraph

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#57341 - 07/22/11 04:26 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: MindFux]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
Doing something for the simple joy, terror/experience of it is one thing and naturally has its place

Note that I said *the Satanism* is in the defiance, the action. I didn't say that the *sinister ONA way* was necessarily to just go out and do stuff and *to hell* with the consequences and irrespective of acausal affects.

That said, I think we're tending, in the discussion of effectiveness and whether X or Y *is Satanic*, to lose sight of the essential individual defiance and love of practical action (be such heretical or whatnot) that IMO lies at the heart of all flavors of Satanism.

What matters surely is not discussing in objective terms (whatever they are) whether some *form* is *Satanic* or *more Satanic* than some other form, but whether it can be used by Satanists in some affective/effective way - as a means of exeatic joy for them, for instance, and/or as a means of pathei mathos, and/or as a means or possible means of aiding some sinister strategy.

Simply put - we seem to be in danger of losing the fun, the exeatic joy, the personal pathei mathos, the lust for action, in *the thinking*, the discussion.

If something works, and does stuff - and aids some sinister plan - great. If it doesn't, we move on and try something else.

Point is - the judgement is never entirely *objective* (whatever that is) but also depends on what someone enjoying or using such a form gets out of it.

Most causal forms have the potential to *presence the dark*, personal and/or aeonic.

You might ask (E&OE) - what did Myatt/Long get out of using militant Islam for over a decade? Pathei-mathos, surely. Some *objective* results? Possibly, measured by body counts or incitement to terrorism perhaps. Planting some seeds for future violence and chaos? Again, possibly. But perhaps the bottom line was to have some sinister fun and laughter - to Satanically enjoy the challenges and the violence blah blah blah and so live life on the edge and exult in such living.

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#57345 - 07/22/11 04:57 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jason King]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17


And btw, I'd get that checked if I were you . . .

JK [/quote]


Get what checked?
sometimes your about as funny as grated cheese

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#57349 - 07/22/11 05:24 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17


You might ask (E&OE) - what did Myatt/Long get out of using militant Islam for over a decade? Pathei-mathos, surely. Some *objective* results? Possibly, measured by body counts or incitement to terrorism perhaps. Planting some seeds for future violence and chaos? Again, possibly. But perhaps the bottom line was to have some sinister fun and laughter - to Satanically enjoy the challenges and the violence blah blah blah and so live life on the edge and exult in such living.


[/quote]



You honestly believe Myatt can claim any kind of Al Quada body count by posting on message boards?
Hey i'm sure Myatt had fun posting on message boards and praising allah and Bin laden.
But you can't give any credit to what Al quada handles themselves such as recruiting and brainwashing suicide bombers?
That's about as fruitful as ONA trying to recruite whatever it is this week by subversive blogging \:D

You guys throw out some gems every now and then but you ruin it with delusional shit in the same stroke

It isn't as if Myatt was an actual Militant islamic extremist?
he was a blogger.

Living life on the edge by blogging now that's aweful sinister.

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#57356 - 07/22/11 06:08 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
SinisterMoon Offline
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Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
You honestly believe Myatt can claim any kind of Al Quada body count by posting on message boards? Living life on the edge by blogging now that's aweful sinister.

If that's what you want to believe, so be it. Perhaps you could point out what you've done?

I'd just point out (for others) Myatt's contacts with Hamas, who weren't adverse to the odd suicide attack or ten; that Myatt was investigated by NATO counter-terrorism experts (hardly worthy of the effort if what you believe is correct) and was described by a world renowened scholar as "a staunch advocate of Jihad, suicide missions and killing Jews..."

At one NATO anti-terrorism conference Myatt was described as a fanatic who urged "all enemies of the Zionists to embrace the Jihad against Jews and the United States."

All this is well documented in credible mainstream sources.

Myatt was also placed under surveillance by MI5 for years.

So, he had some influence among Jihadis, it seems. Influence of the practical kind. One source went so far as to say that some radical Muslims came to regard him as some sort of *holy man* and some sort of Islamic scholar.

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that several of Myatt's writings somehow found their way onto Al-Qaida websites.

'Tis a pity therefore methinks that he threw it all away for some *numinous way* mystic guff.



Edited by SinisterMoon (07/22/11 06:11 PM)

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#57359 - 07/22/11 06:59 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
I'd just point out (for others) Myatt's contacts with Hamas, who weren't adverse to the odd suicide attack or ten; that Myatt was investigated by NATO counter-terrorism experts (hardly worthy of the effort if what you believe is correct) and was described by a world renowened scholar as "a staunch advocate of Jihad, suicide missions and killing Jews..."

At one NATO anti-terrorism conference Myatt was described as a fanatic who urged "all enemies of the Zionists to embrace the Jihad against Jews and the United States."

All this is well documented in credible mainstream sources.

Myatt was also placed under surveillance by MI5 for years.

So, he had some influence among Jihadis, it seems. Influence of the practical kind. One source went so far as to say that some radical Muslims came to regard him as some sort of *holy man* and some sort of Islamic scholar.

Oh yeah, I forgot to say that several of Myatt's writings somehow found their way onto Al-Qaida websites.

'Tis a pity therefore methinks that he threw it all away for some *numinous way* mystic guff.

[/quote]

And pray tell all this dis-information is written about where?
blogs?
Myatt was out there meeting with the hamas oh ok.

You have "one" picture of him dressed up like a muslim not even in a mosque but plenty of pictures of him with stained glass church windows behind him?

Show us a single photo of him meeting with the hamas?

It doesn't take a genius to recognize all your self concocted websites look at your main blog pages it's chock full of them.



Myatt was placed under surveilance by M15
No Myatt was an M15 agent
Sounds a lot like an old american cartoon
called Commander Mc Brag




Edited by nightowl (07/22/11 07:05 PM)

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#57360 - 07/22/11 07:04 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Don't be an idiot man, his switch to Radical Islam was well documented by the press and his credibility in the radical's eyes was also a written upon.

You don't even need to check ONA sources for that.

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#57361 - 07/22/11 07:07 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Don't be an idiot man, his switch to Radical Islam was well documented by the press and his credibility in the radical's eyes was also a written upon.

You don't even need to check ONA sources for that.


Oh yeh so what's your source all i've ever seen is blogs
If you had a source besides self concocted trite i'm sure you'd
produce it...


By what press? the ona concocted bs websites
Myatts a blogger not a doer man check yourself


Edited by nightowl (07/22/11 07:08 PM)

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#57362 - 07/22/11 07:08 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Do your fucking homework instead of ranting here while being an ignorant twat.
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#57363 - 07/22/11 07:09 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
hey retard if you buy those self concocted blogs then more power to ya you
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#57364 - 07/22/11 07:10 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
nightowl Offline
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Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
you guys act like Myatts even on the radar of anything lol
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#57365 - 07/22/11 07:10 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
And pray tell all this dis-information is written about where?

Do your own google - or even go read some books. Or even - and this is hard - go do some old fashioned leg work (aka research) in the real world.

BTW, you didn't answer my question - what have you done, and is it documented in mainstream sources? Or are you just some dude who posts on some forums?

If you had some real practical sinister deeds behind you, it might give some weight to your opinion, at least IMO.

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#57366 - 07/22/11 07:11 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Man, I'm about tired of those morons that can't resist jumping every ONA thread without even having the slightest bit of knowledge.

Instead of rambling like a fucking housewife, hit google. Or type Myatt in Wikipedia if that isn't too much effort. You might even learn a thing or two.

Unless you think ONA controls Wiki too.

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#57367 - 07/22/11 07:13 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
nightowl Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
And pray tell all this dis-information is written about where?

Do your own google - or even go read some books. Or even - and this is hard - go do some old fashioned leg work (aka research) in the real world.

BTW, you didn't answer my question - what have you done, and is it documented in mainstream sources? Or are you just some dude who posts on some forums?

If you had some real practical sinister deeds behind you, it might give some weight to your opinion, at least IMO.




evidently all you've done is brag about what Myatts allegedly done i'm just showing you how you come off
who are you? but an anonymous nym playing up Myatt?

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#57368 - 07/22/11 07:14 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
nightowl Offline
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stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Man, I'm about tired of those morons that can't resist jumping every ONA thread without even having the slightest bit of knowledge.

Instead of rambling like a fucking housewife, hit google. Or type Myatt in Wikipedia if that isn't too much effort. You might even learn a thing or two.

Unless you think ONA controls Wiki too.



im going to hit wiki thats proof enough an ona written wiki does it for me your a fucking joke





Edited by nightowl (07/22/11 07:14 PM)

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#57369 - 07/22/11 07:16 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Can some Mod kick this guy out.

Not because he criticizes ONA but because he's too dumb to be allowed having criticism.

Thanks,

D.

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#57370 - 07/22/11 07:17 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
nightowl Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17


Unless you think ONA controls Wiki too. [/quote]




people write there own wiki thats the glory of internet stardom huh







[/quote]

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#57371 - 07/22/11 07:19 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
nightowl Offline
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stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Can some Mod kick this guy out.

Not because he criticizes ONA but because he's too dumb to be allowed having criticism.

Thanks,

D.



Awww you can cuss me up and down but you need a mod when the truths being told to you sychophants huh

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#57372 - 07/22/11 07:20 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
who are you?

That you fail to answer my question about your own deeds - and reply thus - is indicative.

Enough said, already.

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#57373 - 07/22/11 07:24 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SinisterMoon]
nightowl Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 07/02/11
Posts: 17
 Originally Posted By: SinisterMoon
 Originally Posted By: nightowl
who are you?

That you fail to answer my question about your own deeds - and reply thus - is indicative.

Enough said, already.


No i answered you
who are you? but an anonymous nym playing up Myatt
wheres your deeds?


keep going in circles with your bullshit reverse phsychology it doesn't prove anything other than all you can ever back anything up with is ONA concocted blogs




Edited by nightowl (07/22/11 07:26 PM)

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#57382 - 07/22/11 08:02 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: nightowl]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You can't write decent English even if your life depended upon it. Your criticism is unsubstantial and you undeniably lack any knowledge upon that which your criticize. To make it worse, you don't even desire to be informed.

You're one of those morons driven by a dislike which is clearly emotional. You're what could be called a “badvertizer”, one of those deeply affected by ONA, and through that driven on a crusade against.

You serve your role well but it does not lessen the repulsion I feel whenever I am subjected to subhumans like you. If in real life you'd be sharing this sort of ignorant banter with me, I'd stab a fork in your eye.

D.

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#57386 - 07/22/11 08:33 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
To be fair, and I don't know or really care who Nightowl OR Sinister Moon is, any time someone purporting to have an affiliation with the ONA is asked what THEIR deeds are, they refuse to answer, or come up with something like "well, if you don't believe, I'm not going to prove..."

It's a bit disingenuous then for them to demand proof of deeds from anyone or get uppity when they don't feel the need to answer. And to call for the guy's deletion because someone doesn't like what he says is a bit hypocritical. If the mods REALLY are mods, let's hear you. You maded damn sure I heard you.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#57388 - 07/22/11 08:35 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Don't let your agenda cloud your judgment Jake.

The issue here is David Myatt and radical Islam, information that is easily found online without having to rely solely on ONA “blogs”.

The guy clearly doesn't desire information, he's here for another purpose.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (07/22/11 08:40 PM)
Edit Reason: cloak should have been cloud ofc

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#57390 - 07/22/11 08:44 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I stated MY point of view. I stand by it. If you or anybody else doesn't like it, that's too bad. But the hypocrisy is OBVIOUS. And if Nightowl's done nothing wrong and against the Forum rules.

He has the right to question. You demand it for yourself. You can't deny it to others.

He has the same right NOT to answer a question as anyone else.


Edited by Jake999 (07/22/11 08:51 PM)
Edit Reason: OOOPS... Typed sinister moon instead of Nightowl.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#57393 - 07/22/11 08:54 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jake999]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
He has the same right NOT to answer a question as anyone else.

I agree - assuming you're referring to *nightowl*. But my point was that he (and I'm a Ms BTW) made public accusations about Myatt, questioning Myatt's public record of practical deeds, and so I naturally asked him what his own public record of deeds were.

That just seems, to me, a fair thing to ask. Otherwise, he seems to me to be just a hypocrite.

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#57394 - 07/22/11 08:59 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jake999]
diavoloisapedo Offline
banned troll/multi named
lurker


Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 2
Jake screw them ignorant nut jobs
All there documentation of proofs is blogs upon blogs.
You can't find a legit news story of David Myatt being talked about at a Nato conference it's rediculous.
They want to spread dis-info but when someone calls them on it they become big ass butthurt babies like diavolo did.
Stab me with a fork in the eye?
In your wet dreams you couch potato keyboard warrior for the cause of spreading dis-info.
Myatt was a blogger period not a real life radical muslim.
Your proofs are merely blogs to back up rediculous claims.

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#57396 - 07/22/11 09:01 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: diavoloisapedo]
diavoloisapedo Offline
banned troll/multi named
lurker


Registered: 07/22/11
Posts: 2
Im With Jason King there's like 20 nyms praising Myatt all coming from the same demented source LMFAO!

The whole game to these no bodies is try to reverse the shit back umm what are your deeds then since we cant prove ours but look look Myatts done this and that our self created wiki says so LMFAO!

We can't prove anything but through blogs!

Well i actualy have a life and don't feel the need to make up 50 websites praising my dasterdly deeds!

how lame is that?

i wrote a new slogan for you

ONA 2.0 and we got the blogs to prove it


Banned troll/multi named user... Don't feed it.... Morgan


Edited by Morgan (07/22/11 09:14 PM)
Edit Reason: information update

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#57397 - 07/22/11 09:13 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: diavoloisapedo]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: diavoloisapedo
lked about at a Nato conference it's rediculous.


http://www.ict.org.il/Articles/tabid/66/Articlsid/194/Default.aspx


NATO Conference On Terrorism and Communications - Countering the Terrorist Information Cycle, Slovakia, April 2005.

http://icsr.info/page/Ely-Karmon

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#57398 - 07/22/11 09:20 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: diavoloisapedo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
how lame is that?



Did you register just to trash ONA and this "Myatt" character?

That is pretty damn lame.

Now, I understand from your previous postings under your previous name (nightowl) that you hate blogs and bloggers, but you should probably just start your own blog so you can rant all you want there. 'Cuz I sure am damn tired of reading it here.

For the sake of clarity I am going to make it known that I have no dog in this fight (ONA v. anyjackasswithakeyboard) but if you are here just to grind your ax then as far as I am concerned you can fuck off onto your own website.
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#57400 - 07/22/11 09:27 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Yeah... the diavoloisapedo lost any credibility with me.

Although if he had stuck with Nightowl, he was simply stating his case and had every right to do so.
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#57403 - 07/22/11 11:40 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
As I said, that moron was not here to debate.

I might not know much but I sure know people.

D.

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#57454 - 07/24/11 06:10 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
We are not simply inversion, but a complete destruction of the greater web of connotations. Reverse psychology? Heavens no.
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#57522 - 07/25/11 06:45 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Hegesias]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Hegesias
We are not simply inversion, but a complete destruction of the greater web of connotations. Reverse psychology? Heavens no.


^
^
^

And people really want this dude to be less verbose? I understood the above, but wondered why it was re:Diavolo. Then I remembered the "quick reply" thingamajiggy.

On point: Hegesias, what do you feel to be the best method of accomplishing your aim of toppling the dominant meta-meme? How has this been done historically? Is this all an internal head-game, or do you have real-world goals?

Food for thoughtforms . . .

JK
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#105579 - 02/18/16 01:37 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
Old topic from 2011, flash forward to 2016.

A few things:

1.) There's over 50 groups (more widely known) described as 'Radical Islam' or 'Militant Islam'. Each, while purported to have the same goals, appear to only have similar goals (i.e. protect the Caliphate or infiltrate Western dominance).

2.) To describe their goals as tyrannical, falls short for me. Lest we forget that there's a long history of occupation, annexing, vying for resources and cultural conflicts. Conflicts I might add, that are as a result of infiltrating the homelands of these 'militants'.

3.) Islam can be used as a vehicle and a tool. In the case of the men and women that join and actively participate in battles, the end-goal may be more akin to protecting their way of life, what they hold holy and sacred. It's not much different than 'American Patriotism', and all that trite resultant from Desert Storm onward (including 9/11).

4. We must account for why foreigners and sympathizers join the fight. Could it be that Islam is merely the uniform?

5. How far militants are willing to go to achieve their goals requires fanaticism. I'm not convinced this is a mindless activity or that it should be dismissed as slavery. Are there values that you'd be willing to bleed for? Die for? What would you be willing to do to fight off forces coming for you and yours?

 Quote:
So is radical Islam a Satanic manifestation, or am I misreading Islam and/or Satanism?


To what the OP was inquiring about, I'd say that there's strong enough merit in the deeds to say YES. This manifestation is Satanic in that they aren't going the route frequently traveled. There is no tolerance for talk or diplomacy. There is no chance for peaceful resolve.

It doesn't even have to be a coherent solidified message. Individual participation includes a lot of individual gripes (including the motivations of foreigners). 'Militant Islam' is merely the vector for what the individual (vs. collective) is hoping to achieve. Even if it's to put fear in the hearts and minds of Westerners.

As for 'read more' or 'you don't get it', I find that absurd and pointing to LaVey or the CoS is no different than the fundies being criticized and Caliphate being honored here.
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#105582 - 02/18/16 04:22 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1751
Loc: New York
I pretty much agree with SIN on this one. (Just got a weather forecast from Hell, "Icycicles forming." ;\) )

As much as I personally hate everything that ISIS stands for and would love to see them all turned to dust, I have to give them credit for their success thus far.

Considering that their numbers are in the thousands, or even hundreds of thousands by now, they have managed to defeat the whole world at this point. Which I find absurd to think that if the "West" or the civilized world truly wanted to defeat them that they can't. Something doesn't compute, but perhaps that's an entirely different subject.

They've gotten to the point where they can pretty much just walk into a place with a greater number of men and now women as an opposing force, and have the larger force surrender without a fight, merely because of their reputation.

Kind of reminds me of the days of Vlad the Impaler. Might not approve of their methods or ideology, but so far, they seem to be a superior force when results are what count and not just intent.
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#105584 - 02/18/16 10:37 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1854
Loc: Poland
You linked to one article but many of the Westerners who get recruited to ISIS become terribly disappointed with the new and harsh reality, especially young people and teens. They are disenchanted with the materialism and spiritual decline of the West and are searching for some meaning in their lives. As they are not able to find this meaning within themselves, they look for some ideology that would give them something to live and die for, some mission on earth to fulfill. ISIS is an ideal target, a dream they were longing for or, at least, this is what they gather from the propaganda they are exposed to online. Once they decide to follow their passion, it turns out that the reality of ISIS is far from what they saw in the propaganda videos and heard from their recruiters. It also includes young women who desired to become fighters but were eventually forced to become machines for marrying fighters and producing children. When their husbands die, they are forced to marry another Islamic warrior and breed children for the caliphate.

Then there come mundane problems caused by living in the war zone like shortage of food, clean water, electricity etc. Some of these kids manage to escape, some are killed while trying to escape, others are stuck in hell forever. It's not only the matter of being brainwashed by the propaganda. Youthful idealism, becoming jaded with stagnation, illusions, lack of touch with reality and utopian dreams play a role too.

Kinda like those silly Western intellectuals at one time visiting communist countries, praising communism and seeing in it the new hope for humanity.

Of course, it gets more complicated with Muslim immigrants living in the West who get recruited by ISIS. The cultural clash, the feeling of alienation, perhaps political revenge and some other factors come into play.

Anyway, if militant Islam is Satanic because it's dark and scary or, as you wrote, it's uncompromising and chose the less traveled path, then the hardcore Christians hating fags and blowing up or shooting at abortion clinics are Satanists too. The nomos (I hate that word but can't think of a better one at the moment) is something else in the Islamic culture than in the West. Do they really swim against the tide? Is Sharia law something adversarial in the Muslim culture?

There are those few who pull the strings and the many who fall for the trap. The thing is that these people are not dying for themselves or their loved ones but for the abstract ideology, which posessed them. What is so diabolical about the cannon fodder? If you don't question your own beliefs and beliefs of other people, you end up enslaved by them. If someone persuades you to die for something, then kudos to the persuader. You regard bantering about the ONA on the internet forum as a sign of being a pawn, puppet, slave and what not, yet you give the benefit of the doubt to the suckers who blow themselves up in the name of ridiculous ideology. How is that so, Ms Jones? Do tell.
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#105585 - 02/18/16 11:26 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
ISIS?

'never heard of her.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#105586 - 02/19/16 02:33 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
LordBlyat Offline
member


Registered: 03/21/15
Posts: 118
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
so, Ms Jones? Do tell.


Me and Ms. Jones
We got a thing, going on
We both know it's wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWOTdt9Bovk

Ms Jones, don't tell them what we's doing together girl. It's our secret!

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#105588 - 02/19/16 09:40 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: LordBlyat]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
I don't expect her to 'Get it' but hey, it sure as shit got her attention.

 Originally Posted By: AS
Considering that their numbers are in the thousands, or even hundreds of thousands by now,


The fact that you've written this Asmedious and appear to believe it's true, is an indication that their tactics are working.

To counteract their success, the FBI has been making attempts to shut down Social Media accounts (to no avail). Things are like herpies.



Whether people that join have been used as pawns is irrelevant to the current of 'Militant Islam'.

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#105592 - 02/19/16 10:59 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
Warsaw Poland, Magazine Triggers Storm...

 Quote:
Warsaw (AFP) - A right-wing Polish magazine cover emblazoned with the headline "The Islamic rape of Europe" triggered a storm of criticism on social media Thursday, with some comments comparing it to World War II fascist propaganda


Reactionary? You betcha!

The backlash appears overly optimistic about asylum seekers being peppered throughout the west.

The U.S. is expected to take another 8000 in 2016 with an increase each year going forward. 2012 - Present but no real correlation data that shows an increase of sexual assaults by migrants from the Syrian conflict.

Poland's Right: "Not today Satan!"
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#105599 - 02/19/16 01:31 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
You linked to one article but many of the Westerners who get recruited to ISIS become terribly disappointed with the new and harsh reality, especially young people and teens. They are disenchanted with the materialism and spiritual decline of the West and are searching for some meaning in their lives. As they are not able to find this meaning within themselves, they look for some ideology that would give them something to live and die for, some mission on earth to fulfill.

You want to know the truth?
ISIS is like the ONA(-movement). Plentiful or pretenders and town-criers.

Why? Extremists are a minority. Remember the days in your youth when you claimed being "goth"/"Satanists"/"Christian"/"Vegan"/"Vegetarian"/"Wicca"/"Rapper"/...? Exactly the same shit to those people. There's more people claiming alliance (in the West) because it gives purpose to their youthful brain. Teens are generally stupid when it concerns their need for "belonging". Some "mature" people still fall for the same joke... otherwise we wouldn't have a laugh at the self-proclaimed "high-priests", "Magisters", "Guru's", "Warlocks".. .

Some might say this comparison shouldn't be made because we're talking about 2 different kind of immersions in a subculture. I dare to disagree by reason people are generally stupid and short-sighted by nature to the extend of overlooking most consequences of their actions.

But hey, that's just me.


Edited by Dimitri (02/19/16 01:37 PM)
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#105605 - 02/19/16 06:54 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1854
Loc: Poland
It's not a very popular magazine. If some buddy on Facebook didn't post it, I wouldn't even know. I don't recall any social outrage. As for Twitter comments, bleh. I don't even venture there. I can hardly bear Facebook.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Whether people that join have been used as pawns is irrelevant to the current of 'Militant Islam'.


The whole current is a mere pawn on the chessboard of history. There will come the time, sooner or later, when the civilization as it is now with its democracy will crumble and plunge into chaos, out of which the new order will emerge for better or worse. There is nothing Satanic or sinister about it, it is the way the things are and have always been. Chaos -> order -> chaos -> order -> chaos... yin yang, the ongoing carousel of life.

It will go on with or without Muslim fanatics but if some useful idiots want to give Allah (Nature, Fate) a helping hand sacrificing their precious meaningless lives while they are at it, then why not. The cogs in the killing machine, the tools of stratification and evolution, culling others and themselves, the loyal servants of Providence.

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You want to know the truth?


Did I miss some Monty Python shows?

 Quote:
people are generally stupid and short-sighted by nature to the extend of overlooking most consequences of their actions.


And this is exactly the type of people ISIS and ONA need. Who is the target of ISIS propaganda? Apathetic intellectuals? Are the O9A Wordpressers honest with you? Do they really want you to think? This sinister lady (?) from Florida who was all waxing poetic about jihad, has she moved to Syria yet to get some exeatic experience? What do you think it is all about?
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#105607 - 02/19/16 10:50 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Sean the Mystic]
Naama Offline
member


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 318
Loc: NewYork
First of all, I highly recommend to anyone to call them DAESH, (as they known by this name, too).
They hate such abbreviation, by the way.
Why is better to call them like that?
Cause they of course do not deserve to derive any power from the name of Ancient Goddess.

2.Previously, I thought that those militant muslim groups are very persistent about converting every one to Islam...
But no... Not the case.
Its known that in their "Chaliphate" and around - non-muslims are taxated. That (fact) shows us that there is not really "convert or die" policy.
Also, in history, years and years back - muslims when were a ruling majority were actually able to live and co-exist with Christians, Jews, e.t.c. indeed.

3. Anyone who uses word or concept "satanic" in any relation to people who pray five times a day - is crazy superficial.


Edited by Naama (02/19/16 10:56 PM)
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#105609 - 02/20/16 12:33 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Naama]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 419
It is times like that I wish we had a like button Naama. I will be referring to this group as DAESH from now on.
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#105610 - 02/20/16 01:47 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Did I miss some Monty Python shows?

As far as I can tell from all your posts, you're still on.

I don't mind people getting riled up about their cause.
Especially if it involves strapping bombs to ones head and having a jolly good blast.

This makes me wonder when your final push is...
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#105624 - 02/21/16 08:01 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Naama]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1854
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: Naama
Its known that in their "Chaliphate" and around - non-muslims are taxated. That (fact) shows us that there is not really "convert or die" policy.


It's true though the religious minorities like Yazidis and Christians are often forced to leave. One could wonder if exile is such a bad option considering that life under ISIS regime looks like shit; no clean water and illnesses caused by it, shortage of food, shortage and high prices of gas, electricity rarely provided, no internet or mobile phones, indoctrination at schools, punishments for even minor offenses, regular executions etc. However, people are unwilling to leave their homes and lands they lived on for generations. Apart from taxation, non-Muslims sometimes have their property confiscated. Their temples are destroyed and women are captured and sold as slaves. And yeah, killings happen too. Especially Yazidis were massacred for not converting to Islam.

There were two ISIS pamphlets released concerning the rules of treating female slaves and taking the body organs from living non-Muslims. The authenticity of these pamphlets has not been confirmed, however the persecution of religious minorities is a fact.

I use the term ISIS for convenience, it's just more popular though the so-called Islamic State is hardly a state or a Caliphate. It doesn't really matter how you call it. We can call it pink flamingo, it is what it is and it managed to scare the shit out of the Westerners. Is some therapeutic effect going to be achieved if we refer to it as Daesh? Honestly, it smells of insecurity and frustration in my opinion.

 Originally Posted By: Dimi
This makes me wonder when your final push is...


My dear, that's not what I'm paid for. I live to preach because I'm an imam. Whenever I speak, I speak ex cathedra.

Dirty work is left for dirty niggas; unimaginative dimwits forever struggling with their English.


Edited by Czereda (02/21/16 08:04 PM)
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#105631 - 02/22/16 11:10 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Naama]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
Seems Czereda has her fingers in her ears and all "La la la I'm not listening to you!"


I'm fairly certain the points I've written previous were clear.

As for calling them DAESH, why would I do that? I'm not offended by this sort. I'm not concerned with the power principle they are operating under.

Individuals with their own agenda under a common name. Sounds like Satan to me.
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#105641 - 02/22/16 09:43 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1854
Loc: Poland
I'm not sure what you mean. I think I addressed your points. If ISIS is a manifestation of Satan to you, cool. In my opinion, it is not. Moreover, it's much overrated. Are Westerners really afraid of terrorists? Some of them are. However, more often it's just a convenient scarecrow.

I wonder how people brainwashed by ideology can be Satanic. If someone is not a master of his mind, then is he a Satanist? If so, then the term is meaningless. What personal agenda do these people have? The young ones travel to Syria after the exposure to propaganda and are often shocked when seeing reality. The mindfuckers believe their own bullshit, they are enslaved by religious ideas.

As for ISIS defending the their sacred way of life, not true really. Most of the Muslims living under ISIS regime assess it as tyrannical, even those who first welcomed ISIS warriors with open arms. The laws they introduce on the lands they conquer are far more oppressive than the standard Sharia law.
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#105642 - 02/22/16 10:41 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
Bodie45 Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 365
 Originally Posted By: CZ
I wonder how people brainwashed by ideology can be Satanic. If someone is not a master of his mind, then is he a Satanist? If so, then the term is meaningless.


Now this cracks me up...you are the queen of "Satanism can mean anything" and here you are talking about the term as meaningless.

Since "Satan" describes an action, ie: KILL, STEAL and DESTROY. The label fits ISIS like a glove and is currently the real deal as far as Satanic organizations go. I have always wondered where all this "individualism" and "autonomy" comes from as far as Satan is concerned. Unless you buy into all that LaVey crap or any other of those fluffy ass wipe leaders of fraudulent Satan's, there is no such thing.





Edited by Bodie45 (02/22/16 10:49 PM)
Edit Reason: because I can
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=45=

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#105643 - 02/22/16 11:38 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
JamesSTL Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Individuals with their own agenda under a common name. Sounds like Satan to me.


I suppose it all depends on where you're standing. Using the old fashioned force-&-fear approach to implement the Quran as the Constitution of the Land is hardly "heterodox" in the Middle East.

Those kids getting sentenced to death for playing heavy metal in Iran are more adversarial, in my opinion.

I didn't read this whole thread, as usual. Sue me.

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#105644 - 02/23/16 11:18 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: CZ
I'm not sure what you mean.


That's rather obvious by your responses.

Brainwashing, Orthodoxy, etc. This assumes the agenda of the individual. Again, perhaps "Militant Islam" is just the uniform.


It would be like saying a white supremacist that seeks to beat down other ethnicities is mind fucked by Mein Kampf. There's other reasons people target minorities that has fuck all to do with Hitler. Some may even adopt a NeoNazi aesthetic because it's provocative and accessible. To dismiss it all away as brain-washing is just lazy and convenient.

Another example would be like saying what makes a Satanist is an abhorrence for Christians and pre-fab religion (i.e. representatives of Tyranny and Slavery blah blah blah). Even if plenty would define it that way, it's not what the thing is or does.



 Originally Posted By: JSTL
Those kids getting sentenced to death for playing heavy metal in Iran are more adversarial, in my opinion.
Get real. Those kids are being put to death and Might Makes Right. Look, this isn't that difficult to understand. Any person can wield tools but build very different things.

Maybe killing these kids just puts out a clear and strong message that anything Western is vile and will be killed off. If you felt that strongly about something, I'd expect you to back it up with deeds.

Foreigners leaving their homelands to join "Militant Islam" isn't just brainwashing. There's already complaints and discontent, putting on a Uniform is easy. Putting it to work, takes action. Even if some get used, pwend, killed, etc. what difference does that make? The individual is impassioned and then seeks a way to express it. Even in death.



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#105646 - 02/23/16 12:17 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
JamesSTL Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Maybe killing these kids just puts out a clear and strong message that anything Western is vile and will be killed off.


Obviously. And the force-&-fear approach to rule/enforcement is the NoMoS of that region/culture/values. Nothing heterodox or adversarial about it. And Islam hardly has a monopoly on such approach(es). Effective, yes. Heterodox? Nah...

Edit1: It's all fun and games until the Man comes around. Yeah, the guy with the gun.

Edit2: Related: The Banality of Evil by Arendt


Edited by JamesSTL (02/23/16 12:29 PM)

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#105647 - 02/23/16 12:50 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: JamesSTL]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
In spite of that region or its cultural values, people get on just fine. Americans so often see a skewed version of reality.

Like I said, if the kids get killed - then that's the natural flow of power. Others, don't seem bothered at all by this conflict.

Why do you think that is?

How do you think Strip Clubs in some of the most conservative areas such as Turkey, Cyprus, Lebanon, Morocco, and Saudi Arabia are made possible?
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#105648 - 02/23/16 01:19 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
JamesSTL Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/13
Posts: 312
Loc: St. Louis
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Americans so often see a skewed version of reality.


Although this is a pretty over-generalized statement, you're partly right. Society of the Spectacle and all. Or what did LaVey call that again? "Total environments"?...

However, I think that at least the Americans who really call the plays understand reality quite well. Hence the $700 billion defense budget that makes the Spectacle a living reality.

It gets back to my previous statement about "where you're standing". Awakened in the land of the sleeping, and all that jazz.

As for rag-head strip clubs, the de facto always prevails over the de jure. The Human Artifex is quite the unsustainable structure. Let them dance on poles and suck dicks, so long as they don't learn to read.... oh wait, I'm over-generalizing now, too.

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#105649 - 02/23/16 01:44 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: JamesSTL]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
However, I think that at least the Americans who really call the plays understand reality quite well. Hence the $700 billion defense budget that makes the Spectacle a living reality.

It gets back to my previous statement about "where you're standing". Awakened in the land of the sleeping, and all that jazz.


The Defense Budget alone is a spectacle. A smaller percentage goes to the war machine than you'd imagine. Hell, they approved an expansion of the budget for Homeland Security/NSA on the brink of the intrusion being ruled unconstitutional. The "Militant Islam" threat is an investment, you know damn well it is.

Skewed Reality: Funding Supports the Department of Defense
Actual Reality: Yeah, so guys aboard Navy Ships can build robots out of joint-tape that cost $200 a roll.

As for tax theft, who the hell reports all of their income? The Dudley Do-Right types can pay in if they choose, I'll keep as much as I can get away with.
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#105651 - 02/23/16 05:57 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1854
Loc: Poland
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
It would be like saying a white supremacist that seeks to beat down other ethnicities is mind fucked by Mein Kampf. There's other reasons people target minorities that has fuck all to do with Hitler. Some may even adopt a NeoNazi aesthetic because it's provocative and accessible. To dismiss it all away as brain-washing is just lazy and convenient.


It's one thing to use something as a tool or part of aesthetics and another to believe the bullshit. Me thinks you're underestimating human stupidity. I meant being brainwashed by the Idea. That doesn't have to involve a specific human agent. If you grow up in certain culture, where extremism tends to grow ripe, you become soaked with ideology, becoming even more radicalized as time passes on. Religious extremism is hardly antinomian in Arabic countries, where most people, even if they don't "indulge" in extremist actions, still have extremist views.

 Quote:
The individual is impassioned and then seeks a way to express it.


There is a difference between passion and obsession. For example, one guy is passionate about his studies, he puts all his heart in it and loves it. Still he finds time for his family and socializing. This is passion. Another guy loves his job to the point he becomes obsessed with it, spends his whole days there without having time for anything. This is obsession. The boundary between the two is very thin but you will know them by their fruits. Passion expands the mind, makes you more creative, gives you some insight. Obsession narrows down the scope of your mind. You focus only on one thing till you become devoured by it.

The same is with ideas. It's one thing to be fascinated with some idea, another thing is to be possessed by it. It's testable i.e., see how one expresses the idea. The brainwashed people, enslaved by some ideology, have that extremely polarized, black and white picture of the world. They don't see all the shades of grey in between, not to mention the full spectrum of colors. Islam is good, Americans are bad. Native Europeans good, immigrants bad. Or the other way round. Besides, mere passion doesn't switch off reason.

This is why I'm not convinced as to their "Satanicness."

 Originally Posted By: Bodie45
Since "Satan" describes an action, ie: KILL, STEAL and DESTROY.


Where the fuck did you get that from? Who knows? You can be ripe enough to become compost new generations of diabolical warriors will grow on.

 Quote:
I have always wondered where all this "individualism" and "autonomy" comes from as far as Satan is concerned.


So what are you waiting for? Pack your bags and move to Syria. Sacrifice your meaningless life for the new "paradise" on earth. Hell, why don't you?

 Quote:
Unless you buy into all that LaVey crap or any other of those fluffy ass wipe leaders of fraudulent Satan's blah blah...


And you don't buy into the crap, not at all.
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#105772 - 03/06/16 11:27 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
IronWizard Offline
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Registered: 11/25/15
Posts: 37
No. Satanism is a Pagan belief, and anything Satanic would have to have ties to something before any anrahamic religion. Many don't recognise Satanism as a Pagan belief, but it actually is, as it spawned before judaism. Now, the term "Luciferian" is a bit different. This means "enlightened and free thinking". Militant extremist islam (or islam in general) is pretty much the opposite of anything Luciferian. I saw someone compare groups like ISIS to Nazis, but this is not a very good comparison. ISIS wants to basically force islamic values over the world. Nothing Luciferian about that at all. Nazis are not really Luciferian either, but they are closer to being Luciferian than militant islamists...

My point is that ISIS is basically as far as you can get from Satanism.

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#105775 - 03/07/16 10:25 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
It's one thing to use something as a tool or part of aesthetics and another to believe the bullshit.


What bullshit is that? As stated, some of these people that joined already had beef, held ideals, and ISIS (and groups like them) just become a suitable uniform.

 Quote:
Me thinks you're underestimating human stupidity.


And I think you've dismissed it too quickly without any actual thought put into it.

 Quote:
I meant being brainwashed by the Idea. That doesn't have to involve a specific human agent. If you grow up in certain culture, where extremism tends to grow ripe, you become soaked with ideology, becoming even more radicalized as time passes on.
It's not radical, it's normalized and part of your cultural lineage. Sort of like how Poles feel about the Third Reich

 Quote:
Religious extremism is hardly antinomian in Arabic countries, where most people, even if they don't "indulge" in extremist actions, still have extremist views.


You'd better take another look. Even in Arabic Speaking countries, some activities are over the top, and are un-Orthodox practices.

 Quote:
There is a difference between passion and obsession.


Is there? Being impassioned is more akin to fanaticism than you're willing to admit.
 Quote:
For example, one guy is passionate about his studies, he puts all his heart in it and loves it. Still he finds time for his family and socializing. This is passion. [/quotes]

Is it? Sounds more like duty.


[quote]Another guy loves his job to the point he becomes obsessed with it, spends his whole days there without having time for anything. This is obsession.
This is most people, only we call them 'workaholics'.


 Quote:

The boundary between the two is very thin but you will know them by their fruits. Passion expands the mind, makes you more creative, gives you some insight. Obsession narrows down the scope of your mind. You focus only on one thing till you become devoured by it.


Nah, some of the most prolific artists are 'obsessed' as you say... America's first Patriots, equally obsessed. Do you think it's a game?

 Quote:
The same is with ideas. It's one thing to be fascinated with some idea, another thing is to be possessed by it. It's testable i.e., see how one expresses the idea. The brainwashed people, enslaved by some ideology, have that extremely polarized, black and white picture of the world. They don't see all the shades of grey in between, not to mention the full spectrum of colors. Islam is good, Americans are bad. Native Europeans good, immigrants bad. Or the other way round. Besides, mere passion doesn't switch off reason.


So you say, I disagree and think you lack perspective.

 Quote:
This is why I'm not convinced as to their "Satanicness."


Because you and I are speaking two different languages.

Even if some Westerners have joined and been used as pawns, it doesn't mean some haven't successfully integrated for their own ends. It also doesn't mean every rebel is just a mind-fucked obsessed slave. In contrast, the 'Satanicness' is obvious. Otherwise the remaining 99% of Muslims would be involved in active revolt, blowing shit up and killing people.
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#105798 - 03/08/16 07:41 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
senior member


Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1854
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
What bullshit is that? As stated, some of these people that joined already had beef, held ideals, and ISIS (and groups like them) just become a suitable uniform.


Brainwashing doesn't have to mean implanting brand new ideas in people's heads. Actually, in most cases it isn't.

Putting on a uniform? Hardly. More like pouring the water into a vessel of a desirable shape.

Giving rigid order to the chaos in your head.

Anyway, I think I made myself clear. Let's agree to disagree.
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#105809 - 03/10/16 02:28 AM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
IronWizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/25/15
Posts: 37
Also, Satanism is the absolute antithesis of anything related to judaism- be it islam or christianity. Let me rank the judeo-christian religions in order from best to worst:

Islam: Doesn't go around converting people constantly, and didn't create this plague.

Christianity: Not at fault for the creation of this plague, but it spreads like wildfire

Judaism: The root of all major world problems

Personally, I would actually side with christians over muslims at this point in time, as I do not like what muslims are doing right one. In the past, it would be different.

I wonder why militiant christianity and militant judaism don't exist. Well, here is a secret: it's all militant. It may not recognise itself that way, but in my eyes, these religions are taking over the world, causing destruction, seizing freedom, starving people etc.

As you can see, the only religion I respect is Satanism/Paganism (Satanism is a form of Paganism, believe it or not). I may not like organized religion, but I do respect your every day christian or muslim. As long as they are kind to me...

I am veering way too far from the topic, excuse me.

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#105812 - 03/10/16 03:20 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
The 'uniform' is merely a metaphor.

I don't know what more I can write here to make it more clear. The point was that these ideas were already in their heads, thus I'd be skeptical of any sort of brainwashing.

It's like a Fanatical Christian becoming an equally fanatical Theistic Satanist. Stinks the Same. Follow?

 Originally Posted By: IW
Also, Satanism is the absolute antithesis of anything related to judaism- be it islam or christianity.


The Militarization aspect of these groups is that the 'force' is warring with the Nomian. The ideas being used are just the vehicle.

If say, you hated the West in general. It's not that far of a leap to join one of these groups to see the action back the sentiment.

To say that backing anything 'religious' is not Satanic is a gross misunderstanding of what the Satanic is, imo.

You can't know the truth of things in each individual's head. You can only see the effects of group efforts.

There's certainly pawns in any game. Who's leading it, is the question one should ask.
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#105816 - 03/10/16 05:15 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: SIN3]
IronWizard Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/25/15
Posts: 37
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
The 'uniform' is merely a metaphor.

I don't know what more I can write here to make it more clear. The point was that these ideas were already in their heads, thus I'd be skeptical of any sort of brainwashing.

It's like a Fanatical Christian becoming an equally fanatical Theistic Satanist. Stinks the Same. Follow?

 Originally Posted By: IW
Also, Satanism is the absolute antithesis of anything related to judaism- be it islam or christianity.


The Militarization aspect of these groups is that the 'force' is warring with the Nomian. The ideas being used are just the vehicle.

If say, you hated the West in general. It's not that far of a leap to join one of these groups to see the action back the sentiment.

To say that backing anything 'religious' is not Satanic is a gross misunderstanding of what the Satanic is, imo.

You can't know the truth of things in each individual's head. You can only see the effects of group efforts.

There's certainly pawns in any game. Who's leading it, is the question one should ask.




I guess you are right, as there are some aspects of christianity or whatever that are shared with Satanism, but as a generalization, Satanism is opposition to abrahamism.

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#105817 - 03/10/16 06:36 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: IronWizard]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
 Originally Posted By: IW
I guess you are right, as there are some aspects of christianity or whatever that are shared with Satanism, but as a generalization, Satanism is opposition to abrahamism.


Huh?

Dude, it's Satan. ya' know: that dude introduced in the Torah, fleshed-out in the New Testament, back-storied in the "Apocrypha", and further elaborated upon and developed in the Quran. (NOT factoring the Quaran is, quite probably, where The Process fucked-up - it was the missing piece no one bothered to look at when they were too busy scoring LSD)

It's as much anti-Christian as a lysosome is anti-metabolic. It's a part of the mythos. Inextricable.

"Satanists" are quite possibly more "Christian" than Christians - and that is fucking scary to most.

Satan doesn't exist in the same way other things exist. It lives and breathes in each and every descendent of Eve, and it wants you dead - and for a very specific reason, too.

See, this Nazarene - he was warned. They met in the desert. He was (quite mercifully) given an "out" - this Nazarene. All of the pleasure this has to offer, but no further.

But no____

fast-forward some 20+ centuries and now there is a permanent reminder in the form of steeple'd crucifixes clustered above every ghetto, and slum most high - a reminder of what it is that this system does to people like him - the Nazarene.

Gloating. Looking down from above - far above you.

When in Rome - wherever you my roam - there it is - a stark warning for any would-be "anti-hero" (speaking of which...)

Actually, yeah! I totally *would* go so far as to say as that any "Satanist" is probably more Christian than Christians - at least more so those who are "Christian-in-name-only" (CINO?) What?

If you want to be anti-Christian, then just go sign-up with all the other boring-ass atheists, and sniff the farts of greater scientific minds than you'll ever be.

Satan lives and breathes in me.


Edited by antikarmatomic (03/10/16 06:47 PM)
Edit Reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmcA9LIIXWw
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#105847 - 03/14/16 01:28 PM Re: Is Militant Islam Satanic? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
 Originally Posted By: IW
I guess you are right, as there are some aspects of christianity or whatever that are shared with Satanism, but as a generalization, Satanism is opposition to abrahamism.


Huh?

Dude, it's Satan. ya' know: that dude designation introduced in the Torah, fleshed-out in the New Testament, back-storied in the "Apocrypha", and further elaborated upon and developed in the Quran.


Every person has the potential to be The Satan as well as square off with one.

It doesn't want you dead. It only seeks to determine what you can endure.
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