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#57456 - 07/24/11 06:47 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jason King Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
For what it's worth, I want the man in jail. Forever. I want him to suffer until he realizes what he's done.


There's the quote. The rest of your shit needs to be stepped back from and re-evaluated in a clear light.

I AGREED with you. I said it was a RELIGION TO ME. How hard is this, dude? Re-read my post. Think about it. And if at the end of the day you think JK was slighting you, then we can have at it. We all know I like that shit . . .

JK

p.s. seriously, read again.
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#57458 - 07/24/11 08:00 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
There are those who extoll certain "practical sinister deeds" in theory, yet seem unwilling to follow the logical train. I see no way for an ONA-type Satanist to condemn such an act of barbarism, in other words. And again, it was a barbaric act, no doubt.

The larger problem with such myopic models (such as the ONA) is that they engender the very thing they seek to eradicate. Extremism begets extremism, without fail. After 9/11, the U.S. marched lock-step against their own civil and constitutional rights. Patriot Act, anyone?

If one desires to see the Wheel greased (because it moves forward regardless), then one should be supporting practical measures of broad societal improvement. These latter do not entail bombing anything, or engaging in petty crimes to "instill fear" in the "magian mundanes," rather, as every shaper of history has understood, they involve transforming minds.

JK


I'm sorry if I can't live up to your stereotype King and that I see no honorable tactic in shooting children. I stated my reasons for that before. But this does not imply I am morally shocked by these acts nor do I consider them evil. It is simply not the type of choice I would make. Of course all would be easier if, as a Niner, I would become excited by these acts but, and this might come as a surprise, I am not a misanthrope nor do I particularly enjoy human suffering. It is not what turns me on.

This does however not imply I don't see the rationale behind the act, or the inevitability. Anyone reading 2083 will notice familiar themes and these are themes which have been pointed at before. As someone who endorses fascism, which whether we like it or not, is the logical transitional phase we will go through, what unfolds is predictable. You can not skip Imperium, it is a critical key-point.

I've mentioned in the past that in Europe the Right is on the move and many probably did find that a boring hypothesis of someone slightly deluded. But you could smell it in the air since years. The Right has been marginalized and demonized to such an extent, the pressure must escape; violently. C18 transformed to a cell structure years ago. Again here we see mentioning of that cell structure. Since dialogue is out of the question, only violent action remains as a method. And it is not pretty indeed.

So yes, I do see the inevitability but no, I don't think this was a that honorable approach. And certainly not do I prefer to “hurt” anyone's feelings at this moment, especially not of those I respect.

D.

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#57459 - 07/24/11 09:15 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
There is nothing noble about killing children. It is not evil, only despicable; abnormality in Nature's eyes.

Anyone man, woman, with a love for children would pledge to destroy those like Anders Behring Breivik, no thought to it, for it is inexplicably felt. The act of conclusion not despicable, but Noble justice, of removing that which defiles Nature, besickens her.

But who could do anything when the enemy comes baring peace, dressed as a protector; he was an insult to masculinity itself. He does not even deserve punishment, for any sense of resolve cannot be with him. He ought be incinerated like rubbish.

There is no such thing as good and evil in Nature's eyes; there abnormality cometh from men neglecting to feel, no love for women, no love for children. These men are not of us.

Odin's raven's, Huginn and Muninn, descend and croak woe of Odin's children— the "thought" and "memory" speaking late wisdom of too great a price on his shoulders to bare.
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#57460 - 07/24/11 09:39 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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General comments:

If his goal was political terrorism, he very likely undermined his own cause. Nothing loses you public support like intentionally killing a group of kids - especially blond haired blue eyed kids. He would have gained much more sympathy and public support (and raised social consciousness) if he had directly attacked the Muslim community. Now, politically, every legitimate Right Nationalist who is concerned about the Islamification of Europe will be lumped in with this nut. He has actually set back the Nationalist movement. The political Left will use this attack to maximum political effect. Every Nationalist website, gathering and individual will now be under extra police scrutiny.

All the same, I now have more questions. From a practical stand point, planing an attack like this requires a fair bit of logistic and organizational support. I find it unlikely that he worked alone.

He used an ANFO bomb. Ok, but ANFO is a very insensitive explosive. It requires a high explosive and primary explosive to detonate it. In the Oklahoma City bombing, McVeigh used at least 100ft of det-cord (PETN) to set off his ANFO bomb. Where did this guy get high explosives and what did he use as a detonator?

What sort of gun did he use and where did he get it? I am not familiar with Norwegian gun laws but it seems to me that he had a military type assault rifle.

It seems that the police are being very selective as to what facts they release.
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#57461 - 07/24/11 09:47 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Fist]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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His whole plan of operations is explained into detail in 2083. It is a step by step guide describing how he acquired and manufactured his armor, weapons and explosives.

It is undeniably he did harm the public image of the Right, if harm was still possible, but at the same time he did bring a document into circulation which will be read by a whole lot of people. And many of them will agree, even when disagreeing with his specific act.

D.

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#57462 - 07/24/11 10:16 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
Jason King Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'm sorry if I can't live up to your stereotype King and that I see no honorable tactic in shooting children.


I never typed you in any such regard, and certainly not with dual speakers (that's a pun of sorts, think about it). To Skaf, immediately prior, I said this: "I do not see how an advocate of ONA "praxis" could hold a view such as ours". If this is a question of hypocrisy or doublespeak, please let me know. I always took you to be the type dude (not unlike myself) who sometimes rejoins with points (solid though they may be) he does not subscribe to personally. My rejoinder was less to you than it was to those outspoken "Niners" who talk all day about the "practical Sinister".

So when I questioned your support (albeit rhetorical, as above) of the ONA paradigm, I was actually questioning the paradigm itself, and any who would throw their hat in that particular corner. I thought I made clear in my first thread post where I stand on this issue. If not, my apologies.

In any case, the points remain. It stands to be demonstrated how an ONA-type can dismiss such an action as unethical, anti-paradigmatic, or whatever.

JK

p.s. read what I write, in its totality, before jumping the gun
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#57463 - 07/24/11 10:23 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
In any case, the points remain. It stands to be demonstrated how an ONA-type can dismiss such an action as unethical, anti-paradigmatic, or whatever.

JK

p.s. read what I write, in its totality, before jumping the gun


Again, this is a rather vague claim, maybe you should specify it. Now, ONA-type, almost appears as a straw man.

D.

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#57465 - 07/24/11 10:52 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Fist]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Norwegian gun laws are strict. The rifle is most likely either an illegally obtained full-auto long, a 5.56 to my eyes, or a stolen HK-416 (Norwegian issue), with some bells and whistles added. He had permits for the Glock and a sporting rifle, both of which can be obtained if you have undergone military training, taken a hunter's qualification, have no criminal record and attend a shooting club.

The nitrogen was legally obtained through a wholesaler. The accelerants required can be obtained by taking a demolitions course and getting approved. Once again, with residency and a clean record, no biggie.

Like yourself, I suspect a support and logistics group. He could of course have cooked up some home-made thermite, but this would require an acetylene burner or something equally hot.
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#57466 - 07/24/11 11:02 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Jason King]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
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 Quote:
In any case, the points remain. It stands to be demonstrated how an ONA-type can dismiss such an action as unethical, anti-paradigmatic, or whatever.

While I am hesistant to comment on this topic, and I hope none here of the Norwegian members has lost a close one, I should say you are viewing the ONA from a wrong angle.
Someone who adheres towards the ONA philosophy can dismiss this action as unethical. The simple reason here is that ONA should be seen as a collective that acts as one. Persuading Myatt or Long would be fruitless and asking ONA-types about their opinions of this deed will result in the same answer you'll get from almost anyone here.

I'm going to look further into this, following new and recent information. Perhaps Woland or Maw can keep us up-to-date? Being closer to it and having faster access towards new information..
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#57467 - 07/24/11 11:04 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
Jason King Offline
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Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Again, this is a rather vague claim, maybe you should specify it. Now, ONA-type, almost appears as a straw man.
D.


Where I live, the Washington Post advertises like this:

The Washington Post, if you don't get it, you don't get it.

Sorry, bro, but there will be no study notes forthcoming. You're smarter than this, so act like it . . .

JK
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#57469 - 07/24/11 11:07 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Diavolo Offline
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Weapons: Ruger Mini 14 semi-automatic rifle, Glock 17 bullets with pure nicotine to create chemical rounds

 Quote:
As of 2011; the most popular primary explosive seems to be AP also referred to as Satan's Mother.
AP, although quite easy to manufacture, is an EXTREMELY dangerous substance which is likely to cause you great injury or even death. In the guides I have read about DDNP it is stated that this primary is very often disregarded since it is so difficult to make. This is deliberate misinformation as it is simply incorrect (If a chemistry amateur like myself can make Picric Acid AND DDNP on the first try then ANYONE can make it!!!). After merging 4 DDNP guides, I - who has no chemistry experience whatsoever, managed to synthesize DDNP on the first try. I tested the batch, and I confirmed the result myself. I even managed to create the first batch of DDNP with relatively impure picric acid. DDNP is more than 10 times as stable as AP and has more or less equal VOD (velocity of detonation). I even think that synthesizing DDNP was easier than manufacturing picric acid (which is considered to be perhaps the easiest secondary/booster to manufacture). In other words, the only reason you would not want to create DDNP as a primary is because you for some reason can't get access to the materials required.


D.

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#57470 - 07/24/11 11:18 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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 Originally Posted By: Dimitri

While I am hesistant to comment on this topic, and I hope none here of the Norwegian members has lost a close one, I should say you are viewing the ONA from a wrong angle.
Someone who adheres towards the ONA philosophy can dismiss this action as unethical. The simple reason here is that ONA should be seen as a collective that acts as one. Persuading Myatt or Long would be fruitless and asking ONA-types about their opinions of this deed will result in the same answer you'll get from almost anyone here.


Every one considering him or herself a Niner subscribes to their own approach but agree on some fundamental core principles. None submit or is expected to submit to anything. As such, it is quite obvious that some might agree with certain acts while others disagree with them.

The assumption ONA-types are supposed to “X-Y-Z” is just a misrepresentation, a straw man to validate criticism which does not apply when this construct is not created first.

But that's a debate for another thread.

D.

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#57471 - 07/24/11 11:32 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Hmm, it is generally considered that AP is too weak to detonate ANFO. Most AQ handbooks like AP because it is explosive and it is very easy to make.

Now, if he was on the internet and did his research, he would easily find good recipes for Picric Acid. It is a very old and simple explosive. Not very safe, but it does work. DDNP was fist synthesize in 1858 and any organized person could easily make it. It is a primary explosive but in my research, a lot of home chemists screw it up. Again, simply being organized and following instructions will improve your success.

Was the above quote in his 2083 book?
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#57472 - 07/24/11 11:38 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Fist]
Diavolo Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Fist
Was the above quote in his 2083 book?


Yes, included is a log going through all the preparations (in detail); network phase, armor phase, weapons phase and explosive phase, up to some hours before the execution of this plan.

D.

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#57473 - 07/24/11 11:49 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
Fist Moderator Offline
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 Quote:

The assumption ONA-types are supposed to “X-Y-Z” is just a misrepresentation, a straw man to validate criticism which does not apply when this construct is not created first.


Indeed. He is quite obviously a Christian Conservative. He seems to have made quite a big deal about this - viewing himself as a Crusader/Christian Soldier. Hell, he seems to have had a big WOW persona - hardly a 9er. Unless of course we are back to ONA being whatever 'I' say it is!

Anyone of the C18 model would have targeted Muslims directly. And most Right Nationalists still hold this view. This guy is more like the sort we have in the US along the lines of David Koresh, Tim McVeigh, or several Xtian types who bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors.

Honestly, I actually hope that this forces the Right in Europe to move away from the Christian Identity types. These people are truly crazy!
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