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#57492 - 07/24/11 02:39 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Dan_Dread]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
I will concede this, my friend: were we in a warzone where the choice was shooting armed kids or watching you get shot, the kids would get shot. Legitimate targets will be shot. Somali rebels would use pregnant women as shields.

We will always defend those closest to us.
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#57493 - 07/24/11 02:42 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
assault_ninja Offline
Banned--Idiot
stranger


Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
Ok, apart from emotionaly responding to this tragedy, there's something else to discuss here.

And that is rational response. What could be done to prevent those kind of tragedies from happening?

Individual terrorism is notoriously hard to prevent. If it's some kind of strata, like extremist muslims, cops can infiltrate their groups and have advance info on their plots. With loners like this, there's really not much police can do. The only measure that may help is gun control, but it has it's own drawbacks.

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#57494 - 07/24/11 03:32 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Woland Moderator Offline
Seasoned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 763
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


The media tells us what is a tragedy and what isn't, based on very arbitrary criteria.Cry for THESE children, but not these other ones. I would point out the killcount from american bombs and guns in iraq and Afghanistan dwarfs this on a large scale, but I see dissenting opinions are already being met with bans.


In order to clarify; certain individuals has been given a short time-out due to moronity and cluelessness in general.

Dissenting opinions I can take, no problem.
Stupid fucks? Well; let me say that my tolerance is kinda low for the moment.

What I believe is lacking from the emotional frame that calls itself Dan_Dread, as well as with several other posters, is the sense of "clan".
I also believe that, especially in the case of the Dread-Frame, it has to do with that he deep down feels utterly alone, and that this loneliness has built up considerable emotional frustration, which he proudly projects whilst snarling.

I wholeheartedly believe that human beings benefits from being rooted, and I am also intensely aware how important my land (not nation/state) is to my identity and well-being.
My "line" has populated this corner of the earth long before any trash fled over the pond, and this makes me BELONG, big-time.

I exist within my land.
I exist within my clan.
I am a Northerner.

I will protect my kin, and my clan.
I do not need to know people in order to avenge or mourn them.
They belong to my clan, and that is enough.


I am utterly unimpressed by the pseudo-cynical staging displayed by internet tough-shite, who claims to have written the textbook on all things Satanic.

Satanism, as defined by me, is built on certain core values:

Individualism, Nobility, Care, Evolution, Introspection.

I tire when I am faced with pathetic displays of singularity.
When people construct their persona in such a manner that they miss the obvious, time and time again.

But then; what can one expect from people who are crippled by loneliness?


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Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#57496 - 07/24/11 03:48 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Woland]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3773
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I also believe that, especially in the case of the Dread-Frame, it has to do with that he deep down feels utterly alone, and that this loneliness has built up considerable emotional frustration, which he proudly projects whilst snarling.

LOL seriously wtf.

You can keep your amateur, and way the fuck off base, psychological projections. I am anything but alone, and I value mine profoundly, and have a bond with them that I don't even could be understood by those that would project this bond into such an impersonal frame of reference as outlined here.
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#57497 - 07/24/11 03:57 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Woland]
nexion17 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: Woland
certain individuals has been given a short time-out due to moronity and cluelessness in general.

Is that why you - or someone - banned the ONA's SinisterMoon, because you or someone adjudged her to be, in your words, "moronic and clueless" because she ventured a view on this issue you didn't personally agree with?

Was her crime in your - or someone's - judgment that she ventured to suggest something similar to what Dan Dread suggested later in the thread when he wrote "The media tells us what is a tragedy and what isn't, based on very arbitrary criteria.Cry for THESE children, but not these other ones..."

Just asking.

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#57499 - 07/24/11 04:15 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: nexion17]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Today some 22.000 children will die and we don't care about them because they are not our people. Which is understandable. But to many here the same is true about what happened in Oslo. They are not their people, yet, it seems they must care.

I see none lose respect and consider the shooting a humorous affair but I also see little respect being returned and a lack of emotional outburst almost being regarded as treason. I know emotions run high and this isn't the first time it happens. 911 triggered an identical scenario.

But little is said now which hasn't been said always and each time without a problem.

Satanism remains Satanism even when the going gets rough.

D.

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#57501 - 07/24/11 04:41 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Dan_Dread]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Seriously, wtf. SO many moral high horses, are we running a stable?

This sort of shit happens all the time. People die all the time. But when it happens in certain geographical regions rather than others, it is somehow more important? It isn't.

Should I be emotionally overwhelmed right now? Weeping for the poor victims? Fuck that. Human life is objectively worthless, why should I care if a bunch of mundanes get wasted?

Maybe it truly is a Satanism too far for most.


I am of the firm belief that the closer an event is to you the more emotionally involved you get. In this case it was an attack on a people that is also, to a large degree, my people. If something happens in Africa I am likely to care less because of the lack of social and cultural bonds to that people.

The closer it is to home the more it hurts. And home stretches from your self to your family, friends, local community, people etc. However independent we want to be it cant be denied that almost all of us would react more strong to something negative hitting close to home rather than something happening to people we never even came close to.

I do not live without morals but I have destroyed and then rebuilt my moral view in the way I see fit. If there is no certain actions to value and actions to despise nothing would mean anything. And even if things are worthless or not in the big picture it is of utter importance to infuse a personal desire in life and to life.

When 9/11 happened it was shocking to me. It wasnt expected and despite the distance in miles it affected a country that was way closer to mine in many ways compared to any country in the middle east. When 7/7 hit it was even more close to home and now it has happened in my neck of the woods twice in 6 months (luckily the first one was a failure). Of course you get emotionally involved. Most healthy humans, concerned with the society they live in, would.

Because I know that even if I was 100% safe at all times I would rather live in a safe society rather than one embossed with violence and terror.

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#57502 - 07/24/11 04:50 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
nexion17 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/24/11
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Satanism remains satanism even when the going gets rough.

I guess it depends on how you define Satanism. Soft or hard. Mundane or sinister. According to the the ONA -

 Quote:
” It is of fundamental importance – to evolution both individual and otherwise – that what is Dark, Sinister or Satanic is made real in a practical way, over and over again. That is, that what is dangerous, awesome, numinous, tragic, deadly, terrible, terrifying and beyond the power of ordinary mortals, laws or governments to control is made manifest. In effect, non-Initiates (and even Initiates) need constantly reminding that such things still exist; they need constantly to be brought ‘face-to-face’, and touched, with what is, or appears to be, inexplicable, uncontrollable, powerful and ‘evil’. They need reminding of their own mortality – of the unforeseen, inexplicable “powers of Fate”, of the powerful force of “Nature”.

If this means killing, wars, suffering, sacrifice, terror, disease, tragedy and disruption, then such things must be – for it is one of the duties of a Satanic Initiate to so Presence The Dark, and prepare the way for, or initiate, the change and evolution which always result from such things. Such things as these must be, and always will be, because the majority of people are or will remain, inert and sub-human unless changed. The majority is – and always will be until it evolves to become something else – raw material to be used, moulded, cut-away and shaped to create what must be. There is no such thing as an innocent person because everyone who exists is part of the whole, the change, the evolution, the presencing of life itself, which is beyond them, and their life only has meaning through the change, development and evolution of life. Their importance is what they can become, or what can be achieved through their death. their tragedy, their living – their importance does not lie in their individual happiness or their individual desires or whatever.” ONA - To Presence The Dark


Now if Satan isn't evil, who or what is?

If these deeds in Norway are evil, then just what is Satan and Satanism if the 'satanists' here are calling those deeds 'bad' and un-satanic?

Is Satan some fluffy bunny?

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#57504 - 07/24/11 05:45 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: nexion17]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
Out of respect for the conflicts that have arisen as a result of this thread, I will lock it down for the time being. It will be re-opened when heads are cooler, words less inflammatory and the events properly processed. I ask respectfully that we don't make any further threads on this event until that time. Any objections to this locking can be PM'ed to me, and I will deal with them and, if necessary or requested, pass them on to the rest of the moderating team.

Thank you for your understanding.
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#57530 - 07/25/11 10:08 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
This thread has been unlocked with the condition that it not descend into trolling, insulting or otherwise ignorant or unnecessarily inflammatory remarks.

If anyone feels as though they can't adhere to these guidelines, kindly stay the fuck out of this thread or your post(s) will be deleted.
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#57534 - 07/25/11 11:04 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Nemesis]
MindFux Offline
member


Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 172
At risk of being unpopular, this is ridiculous. Is it a 'tragedy' that those children were killed unnecessarily? Yes. I regard the targeting of Children as dishonourable. Compared to the huge swathe of deaths, you, me, the guy down the road, each and every one of us will cause today just by living our life however this act was barely a dent. Because it was 'just down the road' to some of my friends and family doesn't make it any better or worse. It's just another product of the System we all support every single day just by living without attempting to bring it down.

This isn't a cheap political point it's just the way I see it. I don't feel anything for those kids, because if I did I'd have to be 'feeling like shit' every single waking second of every single day for the things that I do. (i.e. living in and supporting through action a system that will have killed 30 people in the time it took you to read this response). I just don't have the time for that kind of tear shedding.

The people who died have my sympathy, as do their families, but no more sympathy than anyone else that kicked it today through direct or indirect murder.

MF.

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#57536 - 07/25/11 11:56 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: MindFux]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Compared to the huge swathe of deaths, you, me, the guy down the road, each and every one of us will cause today just by living our life however this act was barely a dent.


Okay, I'll bite: how many deaths will I cause today and just how exactly am I causing them? Secondly, can you honestly say that "just by living our lives" we are intentionally causing these deaths?

What makes this incident "worse" than all the other deaths that occur by way of famine, disease, conflict is that these kids were targeted specifically. It's like the difference between First Degree Murder and Involuntary Manslaughter. Both are illegal and will get you into some sort of trouble (both are "bad") but one is viewed as beingmore serious (worse). The difference is found in the intent.

Does this mean that I am expecting you to shed tears for those killed? Absolutely not; I certainly didn't. However I do think it is a fucked up situation and I see a big difference between this incident and the deaths that occur every day.

In typing that last line, a thought occured to me: perhaps the other deaths are so easily ignored precisely because they do happen every day. Maybe if mass shootings like this happened every single day (in the developed countries) people would start viewing it as SSDD as well.

Edit: People expect the deaths of many people in the poor countries where famine, disease and conflict are an every day reality. People expect shootings at inner city schools where gangs are rampant. But when these things start happening in places where "it can't happen here" (Oslo, Littleton) there is the shock factor; people stop feeling safe and become hysterical. It hits closer to home and therefore has a bigger effect on people.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (07/25/11 12:07 PM)
Edit Reason: Had more to say
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#57537 - 07/25/11 11:58 AM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Remember the Beslan massacre 6? Almost 200 children and not one tear shed.

We humans are funny creatures.

D.

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#57538 - 07/25/11 12:02 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Oh I'm pretty sure more than a few tears were shed. The death toll was over 300 and I'm sure at least one of those people had someone to miss them and grieve their death.
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#57539 - 07/25/11 12:09 PM Re: Oslo 22/7-2011. Never forgive. Never forget. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I wasn't really talking about their tears 6, I was talking about ours.

D.

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