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#58125 - 08/11/11 10:32 AM On the Radicalization of Breivik
Diavolo Offline
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This one was posted at SIN but it should be seen by all who wonder how democratic we are, or how much free speech there is.



D.

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#58127 - 08/11/11 11:59 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Registered: 06/24/09
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Interesting perspective.

While I cannot unambiguously blame any one school of thought for the entire and undivided guilt behind the actions of terrorists, he makes a compelling case for the connection between the Quran's dicta and the often downright criminal (in the eyes of the West, at least) actions of Muslims.

I'm not falling over myself in trying to identify the extreme right as the solitary cause of the terrorist attacks by Breivik, but neither am I going to any lengths to demonize Muslims for their adherence to the word of a god I find cruel and inhuman.

I'll try to understand both these schools of thought, but I do understand this: a fanatic is dangerous because of his absolute conviction that he is right, and to hell with all evidence to the contrary.

Edit: I just thought it sensible to point out that while Islam did not kill all those people in the 9/11 attacks, the far right did not kill all those kids on 7/22. Blaming an entire ideology for the actions of extremist terrorists is the same thing as what led the terrorists to treating people as symbols. The ideologies stand and fall on their respective worth.

Thanks for posting this, my friend - as always your commentary is to the point and elucidating.
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#58129 - 08/11/11 12:58 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Diavolo Offline
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You are right, fanatics are always right because they can't be convinced they are not right, else they'd not be fanatics. And while it is easy to get caught in the blame-game in everything that happens, it seldom is as black and white as we try to depict it.

But I think the most important point he touches in this video is how ideas are treated in our beloved West. One can't deny that since decades certain schools of thought, or even certain questions asked, directly led to a marginalization of those. It is even clearly visible these days, utter the word fascism and you're a anti-semite pig dreaming of murder and torture. Ask questions about immigrants and related problems and you're a racist. You can't have a serious debate because every argument you make leads to the same sort of marginalizing response.

This is a constant in the media and in politics. We have a party here, Vlaams Belang who have been excluded from the political debate since they appeared. The NVA, a new party, hardly to be called extreme right, receives the same kind of marginalization in the media. In the Netherlands, the PVV of Wilders gets the same treatment. Free speech is only allowed when it submits to the PC demands, even when those are absurd at times.

This sort of marginalization leads to extremes. If you voice is silenced, what else but acts remains?

This is the sad state of affairs in Europe these days; one word or idea which is "blasphemous" and you'll be ridiculed and burned for the rest of your days.

D.

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#58130 - 08/11/11 02:16 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
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That was an interesting video and it did make some valid points. Especially concerning the futility of attempting change through peaceful means and how it is social-suicide to speak in a manner that conflicts with what the majority thinks is "right".

In a way I can understand the actions of Breivik - this is not meant to say that I condone them in anyway. I just mean I know what it is like to have that frustration, the feeling that no one is listening or paying attention and something must be done to get the point across. Of course, I would never take to killing a bunch of kids to get my point across. Adults, on the other hand, are fair game. ;\)

The narrator did sort of go out on a limb for me when they said that Breivik got his inspiration for his attacks from attacks by Muslim extremists. I find that highly unlikely even if only because Muslims are not the only group of people who commit these attacks. But it certainly has worked out better for them than anyone else who has tried it; I don't remember anyone campaigning for the tolerance of McVeigh or his views.

After watching this video, I doubt Breivik thought his actions would change anything. I think he was just trying to send a message. The message that people are pissed off and will resort to extreme measures if pushed to that point.

Personally, I think it would have been easier to go out and get a blowjob. Sure, it probably wont change anything but it is a damn good way to relieve stress.
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#58132 - 08/11/11 02:43 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
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The narrator just repeats what Breivik wrote in 2083 and where he himself said to have found the inspiration. Someone of his generation links terror to the Middle East, while my generation remembers quite well it isn't solely linked to these.

D.

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#58138 - 08/12/11 12:08 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
The narrator just repeats what Breivik wrote in 2083 and where he himself said to have found the inspiration.


It's definitely a step in the right direction. It seems to be a novel concept these days.... actually looking at the source material, as opposed to just repeating secondhand speculation.

But then again, it's easier to just sling around your prejudices instead of actually reading, researching, and thinking critically.

 Quote:
Personally, I think it would have been easier to go out and get a blowjob. Sure, it probably wont change anything but it is a damn good way to relieve stress.


Interestingly enough, he bought the services of several prostitutes over the course of his planning and preparation...


Edited by The Zebu (08/12/11 12:11 AM)
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#58139 - 08/12/11 12:08 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
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This one is nice to watch too, since the Media is presenting him as the Christian fundamentalist.



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#58140 - 08/12/11 12:23 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Loc: Orlando, FL
Ah, yes, there's another prejudice being slung around.

In his manifesto, Breivik primarily uses Christianity symbolically. His self-professedly "cultural Protestantism" makes the case that he doesn't believe in Christian theology at all, but merely identifies with it as a counter-ideology to Islam. (Edit... watching the video, the guy does address that.) Also, his corpus is pretty much devoid of biblical references-- I don't even think he quotes the bible even once. Think about that for a second. When's the last time you've seen a Christian Fundamentalist go two sentences without pulling a John 3:16? Or why would any believing Protestant call for the re-institution of a Papal Imperium for that matter? It's pretty obvious that his worldview stems more out of a self-consciously romanticized ideal of "the Glory of European Christendom" versus the barbarous Mamluk hordes of the east... coupled with disillusionment of the modern West.

Again, it's just a matter of people not checking up on the sources.


Edited by The Zebu (08/12/11 12:36 AM)
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#58141 - 08/12/11 12:46 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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People indeed check no sources else they'd see that this whole thing is abused by the Media.

Down here, most of the Media is in Leftist hands and anyone, besides the truly naive, realize the Media reporting is far from neutral, if such was even possible. We even had a Walloon newspaper mentioning some Flemish party (we're a linguistic warzone) was mentioned in 2083, suggesting there is a link between their politics and Breivik's thinking. But when you check the sources, you'd notice that while this party was indeed mentioned, Breivik considered it a failure. Quite a different thing from what was suggested.

D.

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#58145 - 08/12/11 12:50 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
It is a challenge to display anything other than amused indifference, but here's some small additions which may appear as all obviousness, but in all honesty this is the problem.

Mr. Breivik does not appear to be a representational model of the typical citizen nor does he appear to be greatly stricken by the condition known as empathy. Still, the media will continue building on the murder of children to infect the public with pity. Most attention seems to be on the word “children” when Mr. Breivik destroyed everyone else too. Mr Breivik's actions cannot ever be representational of any mundane organisation or movement because he is not representative of the typical citizens impairments. Mr. Breivik's actions appear shocking to mundanes and this is because they do not have a psychology like him. Breivik fucked up with plan B which we could argue was an act brought about through years of malignant optimism i.e deliberately cultivating impossible goals and hopes to create emotional build up for justifying grandiose atrocity, but regardless, let us not think in black and white like he eventually did, and instead, each make an analysis of the manifesto for ourselves which is something the general public is evidently too lazy to do, instead they obey media and Jesuitical academia's moral judgements cloaked in a white laboratory coat.

We are reminded time and time again that mundanes are without hope of even residually acquisitioning independent thinking, and so even when disregarding the evident set of distinct intellectual impairments, from observations made and of interactions with mundanes, we know that that mundanes are stricken with a co-morbid condition encompassing peer based social anxiety and a myriad of neighbouring symptoms including a socially pressured “moral altruism” which is nothing more than a fear abounds pressures of moral conformity, which cannot be stressed enough, enables control of their behaviour through the predictability of their reactions.

Mundanes greatly fear what could bring them negative social repercussions, and so base their ego belief system upon everything that is negatively imposed on them, such as fictional and inflated connotations with “racism” resulting in willingness to obey to psychological manipulation and moral blackmail administered by the multiculturalism regime, while we can clearly see that multiculturalism is in need of revision for its failings, mundanes obey their social cues like well broken beast of burden.

If mundanes do not display the characteristics of a weeping war widow toward the misfortune of complete strangers, they will feel the social pressure is too great to bare. The Jesuitical morality keeps mundanes from becoming completely neurotic from fears of social anarchy, and we know that the weakest kind of themselves are the majority.

Consider that emotions are cause for actions as our emotions are based largely on our hopes and ego belief system, and such reactions to emotional cues are cause for emotional reactions and the actualisation of real reactions in life. When you allow other peoples words, instructions, opinions, and suggestions to provoke emotions, and you react to them, you are no longer in control but following a cue “mindlessly”. This set of cacoethes is symptomatic of defects in cognitive thinking causing mundanes to be easily convinced when exposed to emotional manipulation, which also happens to be the standard method of communication between mundanes. To do otherwise being even residually able to compute which cues to respond to will label you a full-blown sociopath as the black and white thinking of society would dictate.

You can test a mundane by asking what they think of the black homosexual paedophile Michael Jackson, instead of looking at the facts they will immediately display the aforementioned symptoms (mentioned above) including magical wishful thinking. This is not entirely outlined to be a mock as to their manipulatable minds, but an indication to the hopelessness of trying to bring about sobriety in them, for which even residual exposure to cold hard reality would be far too much stress for them to bare.

Mundanes would rather willingly betray their future and their children's future to bury their head in the sand for immediate relief of any residual social stress. Breivik's 1500 page work will be dismissed by a few murmurs of illiterate emotionalism spread by media, this is why mundanes deserve to be mocked for their gutless ignominy, ignobleness, totally unable to internalise anything other than what is immediately sympathetic to them, let alone give a cursory glance over a 1500 page manifesto.


Edited by Hegesias (08/12/11 01:47 PM)
Edit Reason: deadpan
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#58186 - 08/14/11 10:19 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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Here's a prime example of the ideological tyranny Europe has become. It's one of all too many.

White chavs have become black.

Take notice of:

 Quote:
Piers Morgan, the chat-show host and Mail on Sunday columnist, tweeted: ‘RIP David Starkey’s TV career. And good riddance. Racist idiot.’ Owen Jones, who challenged Dr Starkey during the Newsnight discussion, said: ‘David Starkey has had a career-ending moment, but in the current climate, his comments are very dangerous.


Say the "wrong" thing in public and you will be burned.

D.

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#58259 - 08/16/11 09:17 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Piers Morgan, the chat-show host and Mail on Sunday columnist, tweeted: ‘RIP David Starkey’s TV career. And good riddance. Racist idiot.’ Owen Jones, who challenged Dr Starkey during the Newsnight discussion, said: ‘David Starkey has had a career-ending moment, but in the current climate, his comments are very dangerous.


Actually this particular incident seems more of an issue of ignorance than anything. The racial "black" becomes a blanket term for criminality, while "white" is shorthand for civil Anglo-Saxons. It's a lame attempt at trying to blame someone's actions on another race. Moreover it undermines the reality that the violence in Britain isn't some sort of "race riot"-- it's an all-out class war, plain and simple-- as if massive unemployment and obscene income disparity weren't indicators enough.
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#58261 - 08/16/11 10:47 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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The "black" Starkey was talking about had nothing to do with skin color but with the adoption of Gangsta culture by the kids in London.

It's not only there, down here some "crew" called Raw13 or something made the news with some violent shit. And when you look who it is, you notice some white kids being all gangsta and hood while there isn't even a fucking hood where they live.

Now mind you, I don't care what these kids do but when calling it white kids becoming black, it isn't that far from truth.

D.

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#58266 - 08/17/11 08:09 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
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A recent phenomenon in various New England cities called "flash mobs" reminded me of this thread. In the most recent instance, a large group of blacks just brazenly waltzed through a convenience store and took everything they could carry, and just walked right out.

"We've seen similar reports in other cities, mostly involving African-Americans..." well, there you go.
Flashmob in Gernamtown, Maryland
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#58276 - 08/17/11 03:22 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
The "black" Starkey was talking about had nothing to do with skin color but with the adoption of Gangsta culture by the kids in London.


And a "gangsta" is a criminal, or at least one who glorifies criminality. So here we have the syllogism "black = gangsta = criminal". This also rests on the incorrect assumption that the "gangsta" phenomenon is somehow emblematic of blacks overall.

Regardless, it's still a blanket term.
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