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#58281 - 08/17/11 04:10 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Well, it is pretty hard to think of Gangsta and not imagine "black" not? I mean, those guys invented that shit; bling, booty and guns.

It's a bit strange to act as if Gangsta isn't really related to "black". Sure not all blacks are Gangsta but that's like not all whites being satanists.

D.

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#58284 - 08/17/11 09:18 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

Well, it is pretty hard to think of Gangsta and not imagine "black" not? I mean, those guys invented that shit; bling, booty and guns.


If you're referring to that in the first place, then categorizations like "gangsta" are much more accurate than the general and nonspecific "black".

It's like black power groups railing on "the white man" in reference to racists, whereby "white" becomes a pejorative byword for oppression and bigotry. Using the term "black" to describe thuggery is the same inaccuracy.

 Quote:
It's a bit strange to act as if Gangsta isn't really related to "black". Sure not all blacks are Gangsta but that's like not all whites being satanists.


They're not unrelated, of course, but it is inaccurate to use the two interchangeably, just like using "white" and "Satanist" interchangeably would also be inaccurate.


Edited by The Zebu (08/17/11 09:19 PM)
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#58296 - 08/18/11 05:14 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Well, it was the "white man" taking racism to a whole new level, so it's quite logical that both become connected.

That's why there are stereotypes, they're not completely correct but they aren't completely wrong either.

If you think trailer trash, you think white.
If you think gangsta, you think black.

D.

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#58298 - 08/18/11 07:27 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
To show my point, go to google and type racist or gangsta and then check images. Type terrorist and you'll see something similar.

People should stop trying to be uber-PC (not implying you) when something is mentioned that is simply the normal image for most. I mean, they're willing to crucify a guy for using a description which probably most of the people in the UK use as well.

D.

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#58302 - 08/18/11 12:42 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
To show my point, go to google and type racist or gangsta and then check images. Type terrorist and you'll see something similar.


So for your amusement, here are some typical Satanists according to Google...





 Quote:
People should stop trying to be uber-PC (not implying you) when something is mentioned that is simply the normal image for most. I mean, they're willing to crucify a guy for using a description which probably most of the people in the UK use as well.


I agree with you completely on this aspect. I really don't expect everyone to adhere to the same standards I do, which are rather anal-retentive by comparison. It is an unfortunate reality that public figures are subject to a hypocritical double-standard of conduct.
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#58304 - 08/18/11 01:08 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
They're not typical, they're two specific examples out of bigger group which, as that group, affirms certain stereotypical thinking.

The joke here in Europe is that all people should be treated equal, regardless of religion, sexuality or skin color, and that we have to be tolerant and open-minded towards all. Except those not agreeing with this, they will feel our wrath.

D.

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#58308 - 08/18/11 03:20 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Postmodern multiculturalism is an illusion, a cultural narrative fostered by hypocrites. I am equally hostile towards prejudice and sweeping generalizations, because those too are easily exploited as methods of social control.

The root of the problem is not multiculturalism itself, but the charlatans who enforce it.

More relevant to the topic, Breivik's actions actually ended up as an ideological victory for multiculturalists, since the public reaction ended up demonizing the right and victimizing the left.
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#58380 - 08/20/11 04:01 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
 Quote:
More relevant to the topic, Breivik's actions actually ended up as an ideological victory for multiculturalists, since the public reaction ended up demonizing the right and victimizing the left.

Or so it would seem actually.
Breiviks actions were a succes. He managed to give a severe blow towards gatherings of leftist camps in years to come (due to his actions). His manifest at this moment is available on the internet for all to download and learn for those interested, it even contains information about warfare. The mails with his manifest send towards right politicians was not out of admiration, it was an action to weed and show the right population their idols are but puppets of the left; and it worked. Even at this very moment discussions are being held about the multicultural society. And while I'm quite quick in calling those around me a bunch of airheads, I've seen a few of them starting to show traces of right thinking, changed views of "the multicultural society". His actions are condemed by society, but in the meantime he managed by the following moral chaos to win a few people against multiculturalism, since it is worldnews it are not a few hundred but a few thousand of people.





Edited by Dimitri (08/20/11 04:09 PM)
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#58544 - 08/24/11 04:02 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Dimitri]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:
...but in the meantime he managed by the following moral chaos to win a few people against multiculturalism

Multuculturalism is some kind of religion and people who don't like it - hasn't rights in todays Europe. They have to accept it and it makes life for them in Europe quite bad..

Imigrants of third world are comming and distorting our culutures and they don't integrate - a lot of them just want good social securities - they don't learn languages, absolutely don't integrate and don't work like parasites.

Maybe it was actual for Latvia 30 or 40 years back, when we had immigrants from whole Soviet Union... They got free flats, good works, they never learn Latvian…and we Latvians with our culture were suppressed...

I don't support Breviks actions, but I understand causes.
Latvian
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#58576 - 08/24/11 08:44 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
“Hey, did you hear about what that Norwegian bastard did”

“Yes, yes I did, a grandiose act of terrorism right?”

“Yes, but, just look at the facebook page! His actions were actually really really not nice at all, people are calling him names and everything”

Breivik has a Shitbook hate page LOL
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#58586 - 08/25/11 03:59 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
Of course I know I know what Anders Breivik did, he took more than 70 lives in Norway. It’s crime against humanity and we satanists can say about it ‘never forget, never forgive’. But I look on other side of the coin. What are the reasons?!? Why quite many individuals in small nations are against multiculturalism.
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#58588 - 08/25/11 06:46 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
 Quote:
Imigrants of third world are comming and distorting our culutures and they don't integrate - a lot of them just want good social securities - they don't learn languages, absolutely don't integrate and don't work like parasites.

As for the actual number of people doing so, I have no idea of. But I can imagine that this is not only to be ascribed towards the third world immigrants.

Some learn the languages of the "new" country and will give signs of adaptations. My only problem is taking their cultural luggage with them and endorsing it in any way they can, contradicting certain values and breaking traditions which made my culture succesfull. I loathe them for it, especially when the always present equalitarian mindset defends it with freedom of speech to avoid riots from these (once) immigrants. Europe became a nation thriving on fear for the outside.

There is a reason why I react differently when people of the likes of Breivik start shaking things up. They know what is going on and are willingly to shake the world to wake up and face the problems that came to be, even if it envolves destroying parts of your own culture (which more or less give way to let these things happen in the first place).
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#58599 - 08/25/11 12:19 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
assault_ninja Offline
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Registered: 06/14/11
Posts: 36
There's Christian right campaign that screams "No, no, no, Breivik is not a Christian fundamentalist". Here is the last place where I expected somebody to believe in it.

When we say that somebody is a X fundamentalist, we mean that he wants the society to be based on X. And Breivik wants society to based on Christianity. He's ok with atheists and agnostics as long as they "culturally" Christian. If they're not, they're his enemies.

But that's no different from Muslim fundamentalists. Most of them are OK with Christians or Jews, or whatever as long as they submit to the state being Islamic. Actually that's more tolerant than what Breivik says.

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#58606 - 08/25/11 05:35 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Dimitri]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Some learn the languages of the "new" country and will give signs of adaptations.

Of course many individuals in these masses adapt quite good in Europe and work hard, some of them learn native language, integrate and are very good citizens. I speak about trends in immigrants masses and not about some great individuals…

I am in everyday life teacher and some of my pupils, whose parents are immigrants, are good integrated in our culture and country. Immigration is important for Europe, because population of Europe is becoming older and taxes have to be paid to support our social system… But emigration policy of many European countries is too tolerant and they don’t push emigrants to work and integrate in their new homeland and the result - the rights and survival of native people culture are under the threat.

It’s possible, that my opinion is different, because my opinion is grounded on the fact that I belong to quite small nation. I’m Latvian and Latvians are in whole world about 1.7 million and 1.3 million in Latvia.
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#58650 - 08/27/11 02:12 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 1318
Multiculturalism is only a movement to those who do not understand it; namely those violently opposed to other cultures in their country and those who mindlessly enforce a policy of unrestrained melting-pot anarchic cultural relativism.

I don't consider myself a part of either group, but that's because multiculturalism is really just an emergent cultural phenomenon. Just because it causes upheaval and friction does not mean it is always a bad or a good thing. It just is. The simplest remedy for a militant stance in either extreme is two-fold: be tolerant that people are different, even if you feel antipathy towards them, and take the power you need to change what you can't abide.

I'm not saying universal xenophilia is the solution, or indeed that society is relativist, but if it bothers you, change it. Breivik failed miserably in changing society to fit his views. He couldn't have been a more successful agitator for his perceived enemies had he tried.

Let me qualify that: polls show that the right and left are dropping in popularity, while the moderate centre are nearing an all-time high. Tolerance and integration have become the trendy cause du jour. Some hardliners are still riding the wave of resentment that Breivik caused, but it's becoming increasingly vilified to ride those coat-tails.

Public commitment to understanding the sociological impact of extremism is peaking, and although this is most likely a fad, Breivik's actions have caused a permanent political shift in the political climate towards the moderate centre and tolerance. The far right and far left are becoming increasingly demonized for their reluctance to abandon their rigid stances.

In a utopian society, political stances should stand and fall on their own merits, but like it or not, they're all about what's popular. And right now the wings are considered evil.

This is how it's always been. After 9/11 everyone knew Muslims were evil. After 7/22 everyone knew the far right were evil. I don't know who's next in line, but you can bet your bottom dollar the media is chomping at the bit to go at them.

Multiculturalism became an issue to talk loudly about following this summer's terrorist acts, and the outcome is that more people will vote, and more people will vote moderate.
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