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#58710 - 08/30/11 12:16 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
a. don Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with an honor-code system, that is, a society with laws that are implemented through responsibility, respect for the other member and for oneself.

Yet these societies can only exist on a small scale due to the fact that few people decide to belong to such, and other few people decide whether or not the latter few people belong or not.

On a larger scale, it is impossible to admit everyone without imposing these laws forcibly, hence requiring a specific "law"-enforcement entity to do so.

I believe this is one of the reasons why socialism failed.. :P


Edited by a. don (08/30/11 12:17 AM)

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#58714 - 08/30/11 02:06 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: a. don]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm not thinking large scale, I see things small scale. We have to quit assuming large scale has more benefits.

You might think of all the progress we made due to the large scale but I don't see any progress worth it. During the last 50 years our life expectancy increased with what? Something between 5 and 10 years? So we didn't really improve much there. So what progress is actually worth all this? Yet another phone that now can cook your dinner too? An even bigger and brighter television that provides you mostly some worthless shit between commercials? A more advanced car you can drive somewhere just like the previous but now with a shitload of stuff you never needed before?

Our main progress implies we work more and longer to be able to just live in this society and all the rest we spend on shit we don't need which is already being replaced the very moment we got it. Our progress is that we became experts in useless shit. We became masters in creating needless needs.

So I wonder why we need to think large scale, why should we construct our societies large scale?

What would actually be lost when going tribal again?

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#58715 - 08/30/11 03:42 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
a. don Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
I know about some tribes in the Amazon or back in Africa, I don't think you'd enjoy it there.

If we were to regress, we'd probably end up where we are now in a couple hundred or thousand years. Why not try to resolve this "massive tribe" in which we have evolved?

I mean consider this, we have gone to writing in stone or hieroglyphs to having machines where we can type stuff up, as well as navigate the internet and be in almost instant contact with anyone around the world.....from smoke signals to cell phones which also posses cameras, internet, and so forth

I'm sure you loathe driving to work just as much as you despise microwave ovens and cold beer in your refrigerator and hate typing on that computer of yours to contend with some advocate of useless shit such as myself.

I do agree that many people use these tools for banalities like recreation or whatever. Yet even the most responsible have to admit that they have done such as well, and it's nice to have that option available. Yet the responsible will always produce and that banal will eventually fade away.

Personally, I love living in the city (although some peace and quiet in the mountains or out in the country is cool sometimes) - but one can't deny that we take for granted a lot of our "useless shit."


Edited by a. don (08/30/11 03:43 AM)

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#58721 - 08/30/11 12:50 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: a. don]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What of all this progress we made, all this technology we invented, defines what you are as a person? What of anything you have really defines who you are?

Look at people; it's as if they're all at some ER hooked up to worth-support. This one's self-esteem is dropping to critical levels doctor, we better connect him to that new model iPod or give him some useless job title quickly. Society has successfully individualized people and objectified what defines them as a person. Everything they are is under a constant threat of devaluation. Ask anyone what they accomplished in life and most will just list goods and jobs. Having done well equals having conformed completely. I can understand people desiring to become older and older because everything that defines them as a person is expressed outside of them. Their accomplishments read like a shopping catalogue.

So what actually is the value of all this progress to me as a person? What more did it make me? Absolutely nothing at all. Not one thing that defines what I am can be provided by anything else but me. All it did was create more sleepwalkers, more cattle. More rats to run the race and keep an absolutely despicable system in place.


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#58722 - 08/30/11 01:46 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
What of all this progress we made, all this technology we invented, defines what you are as a person? What of anything you have really defines who you are?

Look at people; it's as if they're all at some ER hooked up to worth-support. This one's self-esteem is dropping to critical levels doctor, we better connect him to that new model iPod or give him some useless job title quickly. Society has successfully individualized people and objectified what defines them as a person. Everything they are is under a constant threat of devaluation. Ask anyone what they accomplished in life and most will just list goods and jobs. Having done well equals having conformed completely. I can understand people desiring to become older and older because everything that defines them as a person is expressed outside of them. Their accomplishments read like a shopping catalogue.

So what actually is the value of all this progress to me as a person? What more did it make me? Absolutely nothing at all. Not one thing that defines what I am can be provided by anything else but me. All it did was create more sleepwalkers, more cattle. More rats to run the race and keep an absolutely despicable system in place.

Marvellous.

I feel quite angered reading your words because I can relate, and I see them too. I can see how much you value life by what you write.

I do not sympathise with Breivik but I see a person who was feeling very horrible inside and didn't even realise how horrible he felt, as it was too many years feeling horrible. He tried to make a change by himself and put all his heart into it, but Breivik is only a dim part of himself operating.

The pitiless painting all around is what creates the feeling of a lacking which only serves to make me more determined to stay true to my values. I have no interest in the culture around me, only “my” culture concerns me. Antiquitous Greek aestheticism goes well with progressive weight training lol. I just think, why is media so negative and full of so much utter shit, unhealthy mundane narcissism based on such meaningless social cues that pass for normatives, I haven't watched TV in years because the consumerist commercials and meaningless entertainment shows make me feel sick. Like watching institutionalised apes consume their own faeces, quite pleased, not knowing any better. I don't pity humans like that, I just feel quite unwell, like living on an alien planet where nobody speaks my language.

How fucking miserable that mundanes do not embrace life like Satanists do, that they do not have a genuine interest in meaning, philosophy, ideology, nor any residual enthusiasm about their own culture. I live in my Nietzsche books and have Indo-European values, I motivate people at college applying my personal trainer skills. I can't see anyone else around me who wants the same things in life. They all go back to their TV's and bickering at their families, consumerism, consumerism, consumerism.

At the gym the other instructors feed people a lot of shit to keep their money coming in, telling them what to do on a need to know basis, step by step and telling them what to think rather than how to think about exercise and nutrition. I teach people how to train instinctively and to use intuition with diet and workouts, they don't need me after a few sessions lol

Consumerism is everywhere.

I see Philistine architecture and so called modern art, meaninglessness, no Hellenic or Norse statues, no Wotan, Thorr, Dionysus, Venus, Valkyries... Everything looks like it is inspired by plastic hospital furniture, drawn up on photoshop in an hour or so with the consumerist in mind.


Edited by Hegesias (08/30/11 02:14 PM)
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#58725 - 08/30/11 09:56 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Everything looks like it is inspired by plastic hospital furniture, drawn up on photoshop in an hour or so with the consumerist in mind.


Pretty much sums up my career path.

Anyways, I made a new thread for the tribalism tangent, since I think it's a fertile topic deserving of elaboration, but would not like to derail the current thread.

http://www.the600club.com/topic58723-1.html
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#60745 - 11/01/11 05:19 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I find myself agreeing with many point in the original video and especially the guilt by association. By even raising certain questions some people regard you as fascist, xenophobic, chauvinistic, racist or any of the other commonly popular slurs. The fascist one is of course the most laughable since people using it doesnt know what it means at all.

In Sweden we have a culturally nationalistic party (The Sweden Democrats - SD) that made its way above the 4% voters quote to get into the Swedish parliment. They grew out of a marginalized movement in the 1980's where parts were more extreme. But with time they have worked on their image and today they mainly inhabit the same position politically as the other Swedish political parties in the parliment (they all seem to be very concerned to not stand out to much in comparison to the others). They are however critical of Islam, multiculturalism and immigration. Usually using arguments supported by objective research.

Because of this no one wants to touch them. Since no political block has a majority SD has a tip of the scale position. But it is more important for the other parties to stay away from SD rather than discussing issues with them that could help them gain enough votes to realize their own political goals. This shows how unimportant actual political change in accordance with their ideology is. Its more important to take a stand than to strive to realize the ideas which you think are right. And at times it has been even worse. The left wing party made a big fuzz that they had to share the copier machine with the SD. And we are supposed to trust these people with ruling the country?

All the while they all praise multiculturalism which is something you can critisize or you would be regarded as a fool – and some people loose their jobs for holding such views in public. All the while anyone can see that a multicultural society doesnt work. They defend it by saying that it creates diversity and that this is a good thing in and of itself and that we have to take the good with the bad until things have worked out. Well what can happen is one of two things. (1) Immigrants become integrated into Swedish society and then a new dominant culture will rise. Diversity will then dissapear. How this will look we dont know. Some are afraid it will be more muslim and fear this. Some think its will be a melting pot of all the things we currently have. (2) People become segregated and separate communities will rise. This is what is actually happening and the suburbs become increasingly non-Swedish and because people here dont have to speak the native language they cant get work. If they cant get work they cant be integrated and criminal behaviour rises.

On top of this Swedens own culture is always downplayed. Our current leader (the moderate party) said this once: ”The original Swedish is only savegery”. And his main opponent in the last election, Mona Sahlin (social democrat), said this [in regards to other ethinic groups]: ”You have a culture, an identity, a history, something to bind you together. And what do we have? We have midsummers [old pagan tradition] and these kind of silly things”. The leader for the center party at the time, Maud Olofsson, said the following: ”It wasnt us Swedes that built Sweden”.

With the entry of the SD some people have agreed that the current way of dealing with emigration has failed (despite all the evidence for years and years this seems to be a big step for them). What do the ruling block do about it then? They reach over to one of the opposition parties and creates a deal which will allow Sweden to accept more immigrants.

Isnt this mind boggling?

I heard it was the same in Belgium where the flemish independence parties now have 46% combined making it the first time all the other parties have lost their majority in the flemish parliments but that the subject is still infected despite the popularity of the ideas. It seems like France is much the same way with the Front National recently predicted to have a 23% support but they are still being accused of things they do not stand for and that they are somehow nazis.

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#60755 - 11/01/11 01:38 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
I heard it was the same in Belgium where the flemish independence parties now have 46% combined making it the first time all the other parties have lost their majority in the flemish parliments but that the subject is still infected despite the popularity of the ideas. It seems like France is much the same way with the Front National recently predicted to have a 23% support but they are still being accused of things they do not stand for and that they are somehow nazis.


They are assembling a Flemish minority government while the Flemish are the majority in Belgium and all this out of personal political protectionism. I ain't complaining because it only throws more fuel on the fire.

D.

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#60784 - 11/01/11 06:09 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
A quite interesting thing happened recently. A hockey player got into a fight with someone from the opposing team. Apparently they both used foul language. However one of them, Martin Sevc, called the other, Daniel Rahimi, a "fucking gypsy" just as they elft the ice.

The result? A 3 game suspension where one of the games were made into a fine of 20000 SEK (roughly 2200 Euros or $3000).

Now I am not for calling people rude words left and right and I can understand someone taking offence but its just ridiculous and it does tie in with the original video in that some things are so taboo that by regulating them super hard it will actually have the opposite effect once people understand what is happening.

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#60823 - 11/02/11 06:38 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
According to a Norwegian newspaper, a professor specializing in violence research states that there could be a connection between Breivik's actions and the series of assault rapes that have happened in Oslo over the last few months. (The text is freely translated by me.)

"- What is special about Breivik, is that he put an evil thought into life. Many children are bullied, many children are aggressive, but they do not put their thoughts into actions for that reason. (...)

He believes the outside world makes a huge mistake if they consider Anders Behring Breivik a mad man.

- There are parts of Breivik in us all. But he has put the parts together into a whole and trained for this, says the professor who is pointing out that Breivik showed an extreme capacity when he carried out his plans. (...) - There must be men in Norway who are secretly impressed by what Breivik did. What he did can be a trigger for others to cross the limit."

It could seem like a valid point. If it actually is the case (which of course would be nearly impossible to prove), I sure find it really disturbing. For those of you who are not familiar with Norway, I should mention that both rape and murder is quite uncommon here, so the high number of both incidents have been just frightening lately.

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#60838 - 11/02/11 10:54 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Vinter]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
We were actually discussing a topic related to this at work today. Someone said that Norway had been feeling a wave of rape cases lately and also that an unusual amount of murders have been commited recently. I hadnt heard of this. Is it accurate and if so what is the official public stance on this?
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#60842 - 11/02/11 11:41 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
Well, so far this year, there have been reported 49 assault rapes in Oslo. This is twice as many as in 2010 altogether. To use last month as an example, there were reported rapes in Oslo on the 1., 8., 23. (two in one night) and the 30. (also two in one night). Let me just repeat that these are highly unusual numbers for Norway. This is a country where as good as every reported rape makes it to national newspapers. There have also been five murder cases in Oslo in only one month, between the 29th of Sempember and the 30th of October.

The happenings on the 22nd of July still takes up a lot of resources in the Oslo police department, so one can safely say that they've got their hands full now after all these rapes and murders. Other than that, I don't think there is any official public stance on this, apart from the usual comments that "this is unacceptable" and "we have to do something" et cetera. The people are quite frustrated though; it has been spoken of neighborhood watches and one alleged rapist was for instance identified on Facebook with the text I am a rapist underneath, and a text encouraging people to call the police if they see him.

A spokesman for the Norwegian authorities says "- The people are outraged. They are angry about all the assaults and rapes and the authorities' lack of success in resolving them. Therefore, they are creating "vigilante alliances" to show their disgust".

Edit: You can see the censored picture further down in the article, but the one circulating on Facebook is uncensored. The same spokesman calls this "disturbing", as there is yet no actual proof of the rape. Nevertheless, it clearly shows how desperate and outraged the people of Norway are right now.


Edited by Vinter (11/02/11 11:47 AM)

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#60855 - 11/02/11 02:03 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Vinter]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem of the West is that their "communities" have vaporized. They have successfully been individualized and in that rendered powerless.

The idea that the government takes care of them, protects and defends them, was and is an illusion and slowly people are waking up from this. Reality is turning out to be quite different.

People are realizing that if they don't take care of themselves, none will. The only sensible option is to form communities again, tribes, and decide and act as such.

D.

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#60886 - 11/02/11 06:20 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Vinter]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
The statistics are worse than I thought. An increase of over 100% is worrying to say the least.

In Sweden the number of reports of rape has increased alot over time. Some think its because the quantities of rape has increased while others think its a case of more people reporting rape after the fact. I am guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It should be said that the legal definition of rape is wider in Sweden compared to most other countries as well.

What is disturbing is the overrepresentation of certain peoples (namely non-European and African).

Nothing is really done to prevent this from happening though. One man was charged with rape and was supposed to be deported (he was not a Swedish citizen). He ended up in jail and served time. He got out earlier, probably on the grounds of "good behaviour", and immediately did the same thing again - twice I believe. Amnesty International even had a campain to let him stay in Sweden since he was "risking torture" if he was deported. The man is still in Sweden. I think that speaks volumes of the kind of society we have today.

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#61047 - 11/04/11 09:21 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
Yep, it sure is worrying. I mean, "date rapes" committed by "friends" or acquaintances are bad enough, but the increase in assault rapes in the streets and parks of Oslo makes one wonder what the hell is going on. One would think that these rapes should be the easiest to resolve too, as the victims are physically attacked and not just raped while they're drunk and almost unconscious. One would think that there would be enough evidence or witnesses, but apparently that's not the case. A girl was even raped right outside the Parliament building in Oslo, at the steps of the building. I sure see why women in Oslo are worried and why people are angry.
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