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#58125 - 08/11/11 10:32 AM On the Radicalization of Breivik
Diavolo Offline
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This one was posted at SIN but it should be seen by all who wonder how democratic we are, or how much free speech there is.



D.

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#58127 - 08/11/11 11:59 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Interesting perspective.

While I cannot unambiguously blame any one school of thought for the entire and undivided guilt behind the actions of terrorists, he makes a compelling case for the connection between the Quran's dicta and the often downright criminal (in the eyes of the West, at least) actions of Muslims.

I'm not falling over myself in trying to identify the extreme right as the solitary cause of the terrorist attacks by Breivik, but neither am I going to any lengths to demonize Muslims for their adherence to the word of a god I find cruel and inhuman.

I'll try to understand both these schools of thought, but I do understand this: a fanatic is dangerous because of his absolute conviction that he is right, and to hell with all evidence to the contrary.

Edit: I just thought it sensible to point out that while Islam did not kill all those people in the 9/11 attacks, the far right did not kill all those kids on 7/22. Blaming an entire ideology for the actions of extremist terrorists is the same thing as what led the terrorists to treating people as symbols. The ideologies stand and fall on their respective worth.

Thanks for posting this, my friend - as always your commentary is to the point and elucidating.
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#58129 - 08/11/11 12:58 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Diavolo Offline
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You are right, fanatics are always right because they can't be convinced they are not right, else they'd not be fanatics. And while it is easy to get caught in the blame-game in everything that happens, it seldom is as black and white as we try to depict it.

But I think the most important point he touches in this video is how ideas are treated in our beloved West. One can't deny that since decades certain schools of thought, or even certain questions asked, directly led to a marginalization of those. It is even clearly visible these days, utter the word fascism and you're a anti-semite pig dreaming of murder and torture. Ask questions about immigrants and related problems and you're a racist. You can't have a serious debate because every argument you make leads to the same sort of marginalizing response.

This is a constant in the media and in politics. We have a party here, Vlaams Belang who have been excluded from the political debate since they appeared. The NVA, a new party, hardly to be called extreme right, receives the same kind of marginalization in the media. In the Netherlands, the PVV of Wilders gets the same treatment. Free speech is only allowed when it submits to the PC demands, even when those are absurd at times.

This sort of marginalization leads to extremes. If you voice is silenced, what else but acts remains?

This is the sad state of affairs in Europe these days; one word or idea which is "blasphemous" and you'll be ridiculed and burned for the rest of your days.

D.

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#58130 - 08/11/11 02:16 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
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That was an interesting video and it did make some valid points. Especially concerning the futility of attempting change through peaceful means and how it is social-suicide to speak in a manner that conflicts with what the majority thinks is "right".

In a way I can understand the actions of Breivik - this is not meant to say that I condone them in anyway. I just mean I know what it is like to have that frustration, the feeling that no one is listening or paying attention and something must be done to get the point across. Of course, I would never take to killing a bunch of kids to get my point across. Adults, on the other hand, are fair game. ;\)

The narrator did sort of go out on a limb for me when they said that Breivik got his inspiration for his attacks from attacks by Muslim extremists. I find that highly unlikely even if only because Muslims are not the only group of people who commit these attacks. But it certainly has worked out better for them than anyone else who has tried it; I don't remember anyone campaigning for the tolerance of McVeigh or his views.

After watching this video, I doubt Breivik thought his actions would change anything. I think he was just trying to send a message. The message that people are pissed off and will resort to extreme measures if pushed to that point.

Personally, I think it would have been easier to go out and get a blowjob. Sure, it probably wont change anything but it is a damn good way to relieve stress.
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#58132 - 08/11/11 02:43 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
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The narrator just repeats what Breivik wrote in 2083 and where he himself said to have found the inspiration. Someone of his generation links terror to the Middle East, while my generation remembers quite well it isn't solely linked to these.

D.

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#58138 - 08/12/11 12:08 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
The narrator just repeats what Breivik wrote in 2083 and where he himself said to have found the inspiration.


It's definitely a step in the right direction. It seems to be a novel concept these days.... actually looking at the source material, as opposed to just repeating secondhand speculation.

But then again, it's easier to just sling around your prejudices instead of actually reading, researching, and thinking critically.

 Quote:
Personally, I think it would have been easier to go out and get a blowjob. Sure, it probably wont change anything but it is a damn good way to relieve stress.


Interestingly enough, he bought the services of several prostitutes over the course of his planning and preparation...


Edited by The Zebu (08/12/11 12:11 AM)
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#58139 - 08/12/11 12:08 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
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This one is nice to watch too, since the Media is presenting him as the Christian fundamentalist.



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#58140 - 08/12/11 12:23 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Ah, yes, there's another prejudice being slung around.

In his manifesto, Breivik primarily uses Christianity symbolically. His self-professedly "cultural Protestantism" makes the case that he doesn't believe in Christian theology at all, but merely identifies with it as a counter-ideology to Islam. (Edit... watching the video, the guy does address that.) Also, his corpus is pretty much devoid of biblical references-- I don't even think he quotes the bible even once. Think about that for a second. When's the last time you've seen a Christian Fundamentalist go two sentences without pulling a John 3:16? Or why would any believing Protestant call for the re-institution of a Papal Imperium for that matter? It's pretty obvious that his worldview stems more out of a self-consciously romanticized ideal of "the Glory of European Christendom" versus the barbarous Mamluk hordes of the east... coupled with disillusionment of the modern West.

Again, it's just a matter of people not checking up on the sources.


Edited by The Zebu (08/12/11 12:36 AM)
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#58141 - 08/12/11 12:46 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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People indeed check no sources else they'd see that this whole thing is abused by the Media.

Down here, most of the Media is in Leftist hands and anyone, besides the truly naive, realize the Media reporting is far from neutral, if such was even possible. We even had a Walloon newspaper mentioning some Flemish party (we're a linguistic warzone) was mentioned in 2083, suggesting there is a link between their politics and Breivik's thinking. But when you check the sources, you'd notice that while this party was indeed mentioned, Breivik considered it a failure. Quite a different thing from what was suggested.

D.

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#58145 - 08/12/11 12:50 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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It is a challenge to display anything other than amused indifference, but here's some small additions which may appear as all obviousness, but in all honesty this is the problem.

Mr. Breivik does not appear to be a representational model of the typical citizen nor does he appear to be greatly stricken by the condition known as empathy. Still, the media will continue building on the murder of children to infect the public with pity. Most attention seems to be on the word “children” when Mr. Breivik destroyed everyone else too. Mr Breivik's actions cannot ever be representational of any mundane organisation or movement because he is not representative of the typical citizens impairments. Mr. Breivik's actions appear shocking to mundanes and this is because they do not have a psychology like him. Breivik fucked up with plan B which we could argue was an act brought about through years of malignant optimism i.e deliberately cultivating impossible goals and hopes to create emotional build up for justifying grandiose atrocity, but regardless, let us not think in black and white like he eventually did, and instead, each make an analysis of the manifesto for ourselves which is something the general public is evidently too lazy to do, instead they obey media and Jesuitical academia's moral judgements cloaked in a white laboratory coat.

We are reminded time and time again that mundanes are without hope of even residually acquisitioning independent thinking, and so even when disregarding the evident set of distinct intellectual impairments, from observations made and of interactions with mundanes, we know that that mundanes are stricken with a co-morbid condition encompassing peer based social anxiety and a myriad of neighbouring symptoms including a socially pressured “moral altruism” which is nothing more than a fear abounds pressures of moral conformity, which cannot be stressed enough, enables control of their behaviour through the predictability of their reactions.

Mundanes greatly fear what could bring them negative social repercussions, and so base their ego belief system upon everything that is negatively imposed on them, such as fictional and inflated connotations with “racism” resulting in willingness to obey to psychological manipulation and moral blackmail administered by the multiculturalism regime, while we can clearly see that multiculturalism is in need of revision for its failings, mundanes obey their social cues like well broken beast of burden.

If mundanes do not display the characteristics of a weeping war widow toward the misfortune of complete strangers, they will feel the social pressure is too great to bare. The Jesuitical morality keeps mundanes from becoming completely neurotic from fears of social anarchy, and we know that the weakest kind of themselves are the majority.

Consider that emotions are cause for actions as our emotions are based largely on our hopes and ego belief system, and such reactions to emotional cues are cause for emotional reactions and the actualisation of real reactions in life. When you allow other peoples words, instructions, opinions, and suggestions to provoke emotions, and you react to them, you are no longer in control but following a cue “mindlessly”. This set of cacoethes is symptomatic of defects in cognitive thinking causing mundanes to be easily convinced when exposed to emotional manipulation, which also happens to be the standard method of communication between mundanes. To do otherwise being even residually able to compute which cues to respond to will label you a full-blown sociopath as the black and white thinking of society would dictate.

You can test a mundane by asking what they think of the black homosexual paedophile Michael Jackson, instead of looking at the facts they will immediately display the aforementioned symptoms (mentioned above) including magical wishful thinking. This is not entirely outlined to be a mock as to their manipulatable minds, but an indication to the hopelessness of trying to bring about sobriety in them, for which even residual exposure to cold hard reality would be far too much stress for them to bare.

Mundanes would rather willingly betray their future and their children's future to bury their head in the sand for immediate relief of any residual social stress. Breivik's 1500 page work will be dismissed by a few murmurs of illiterate emotionalism spread by media, this is why mundanes deserve to be mocked for their gutless ignominy, ignobleness, totally unable to internalise anything other than what is immediately sympathetic to them, let alone give a cursory glance over a 1500 page manifesto.


Edited by Hegesias (08/12/11 01:47 PM)
Edit Reason: deadpan
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#58186 - 08/14/11 10:19 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
Diavolo Offline
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Here's a prime example of the ideological tyranny Europe has become. It's one of all too many.

White chavs have become black.

Take notice of:

 Quote:
Piers Morgan, the chat-show host and Mail on Sunday columnist, tweeted: ‘RIP David Starkey’s TV career. And good riddance. Racist idiot.’ Owen Jones, who challenged Dr Starkey during the Newsnight discussion, said: ‘David Starkey has had a career-ending moment, but in the current climate, his comments are very dangerous.


Say the "wrong" thing in public and you will be burned.

D.

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#58259 - 08/16/11 09:17 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
Piers Morgan, the chat-show host and Mail on Sunday columnist, tweeted: ‘RIP David Starkey’s TV career. And good riddance. Racist idiot.’ Owen Jones, who challenged Dr Starkey during the Newsnight discussion, said: ‘David Starkey has had a career-ending moment, but in the current climate, his comments are very dangerous.


Actually this particular incident seems more of an issue of ignorance than anything. The racial "black" becomes a blanket term for criminality, while "white" is shorthand for civil Anglo-Saxons. It's a lame attempt at trying to blame someone's actions on another race. Moreover it undermines the reality that the violence in Britain isn't some sort of "race riot"-- it's an all-out class war, plain and simple-- as if massive unemployment and obscene income disparity weren't indicators enough.
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#58261 - 08/16/11 10:47 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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The "black" Starkey was talking about had nothing to do with skin color but with the adoption of Gangsta culture by the kids in London.

It's not only there, down here some "crew" called Raw13 or something made the news with some violent shit. And when you look who it is, you notice some white kids being all gangsta and hood while there isn't even a fucking hood where they live.

Now mind you, I don't care what these kids do but when calling it white kids becoming black, it isn't that far from truth.

D.

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#58266 - 08/17/11 08:09 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Nemesis Offline
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A recent phenomenon in various New England cities called "flash mobs" reminded me of this thread. In the most recent instance, a large group of blacks just brazenly waltzed through a convenience store and took everything they could carry, and just walked right out.

"We've seen similar reports in other cities, mostly involving African-Americans..." well, there you go.
Flashmob in Gernamtown, Maryland
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#58276 - 08/17/11 03:22 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
The "black" Starkey was talking about had nothing to do with skin color but with the adoption of Gangsta culture by the kids in London.


And a "gangsta" is a criminal, or at least one who glorifies criminality. So here we have the syllogism "black = gangsta = criminal". This also rests on the incorrect assumption that the "gangsta" phenomenon is somehow emblematic of blacks overall.

Regardless, it's still a blanket term.
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#58281 - 08/17/11 04:10 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Well, it is pretty hard to think of Gangsta and not imagine "black" not? I mean, those guys invented that shit; bling, booty and guns.

It's a bit strange to act as if Gangsta isn't really related to "black". Sure not all blacks are Gangsta but that's like not all whites being satanists.

D.

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#58284 - 08/17/11 09:18 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:

Well, it is pretty hard to think of Gangsta and not imagine "black" not? I mean, those guys invented that shit; bling, booty and guns.


If you're referring to that in the first place, then categorizations like "gangsta" are much more accurate than the general and nonspecific "black".

It's like black power groups railing on "the white man" in reference to racists, whereby "white" becomes a pejorative byword for oppression and bigotry. Using the term "black" to describe thuggery is the same inaccuracy.

 Quote:
It's a bit strange to act as if Gangsta isn't really related to "black". Sure not all blacks are Gangsta but that's like not all whites being satanists.


They're not unrelated, of course, but it is inaccurate to use the two interchangeably, just like using "white" and "Satanist" interchangeably would also be inaccurate.


Edited by The Zebu (08/17/11 09:19 PM)
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#58296 - 08/18/11 05:14 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Well, it was the "white man" taking racism to a whole new level, so it's quite logical that both become connected.

That's why there are stereotypes, they're not completely correct but they aren't completely wrong either.

If you think trailer trash, you think white.
If you think gangsta, you think black.

D.

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#58298 - 08/18/11 07:27 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
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To show my point, go to google and type racist or gangsta and then check images. Type terrorist and you'll see something similar.

People should stop trying to be uber-PC (not implying you) when something is mentioned that is simply the normal image for most. I mean, they're willing to crucify a guy for using a description which probably most of the people in the UK use as well.

D.

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#58302 - 08/18/11 12:42 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
To show my point, go to google and type racist or gangsta and then check images. Type terrorist and you'll see something similar.


So for your amusement, here are some typical Satanists according to Google...





 Quote:
People should stop trying to be uber-PC (not implying you) when something is mentioned that is simply the normal image for most. I mean, they're willing to crucify a guy for using a description which probably most of the people in the UK use as well.


I agree with you completely on this aspect. I really don't expect everyone to adhere to the same standards I do, which are rather anal-retentive by comparison. It is an unfortunate reality that public figures are subject to a hypocritical double-standard of conduct.
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#58304 - 08/18/11 01:08 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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They're not typical, they're two specific examples out of bigger group which, as that group, affirms certain stereotypical thinking.

The joke here in Europe is that all people should be treated equal, regardless of religion, sexuality or skin color, and that we have to be tolerant and open-minded towards all. Except those not agreeing with this, they will feel our wrath.

D.

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#58308 - 08/18/11 03:20 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Postmodern multiculturalism is an illusion, a cultural narrative fostered by hypocrites. I am equally hostile towards prejudice and sweeping generalizations, because those too are easily exploited as methods of social control.

The root of the problem is not multiculturalism itself, but the charlatans who enforce it.

More relevant to the topic, Breivik's actions actually ended up as an ideological victory for multiculturalists, since the public reaction ended up demonizing the right and victimizing the left.
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#58380 - 08/20/11 04:01 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
More relevant to the topic, Breivik's actions actually ended up as an ideological victory for multiculturalists, since the public reaction ended up demonizing the right and victimizing the left.

Or so it would seem actually.
Breiviks actions were a succes. He managed to give a severe blow towards gatherings of leftist camps in years to come (due to his actions). His manifest at this moment is available on the internet for all to download and learn for those interested, it even contains information about warfare. The mails with his manifest send towards right politicians was not out of admiration, it was an action to weed and show the right population their idols are but puppets of the left; and it worked. Even at this very moment discussions are being held about the multicultural society. And while I'm quite quick in calling those around me a bunch of airheads, I've seen a few of them starting to show traces of right thinking, changed views of "the multicultural society". His actions are condemed by society, but in the meantime he managed by the following moral chaos to win a few people against multiculturalism, since it is worldnews it are not a few hundred but a few thousand of people.





Edited by Dimitri (08/20/11 04:09 PM)
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#58544 - 08/24/11 04:02 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Dimitri]
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[quote=Dimitri]
 Quote:
...but in the meantime he managed by the following moral chaos to win a few people against multiculturalism

Multuculturalism is some kind of religion and people who don't like it - hasn't rights in todays Europe. They have to accept it and it makes life for them in Europe quite bad..

Imigrants of third world are comming and distorting our culutures and they don't integrate - a lot of them just want good social securities - they don't learn languages, absolutely don't integrate and don't work like parasites.

Maybe it was actual for Latvia 30 or 40 years back, when we had immigrants from whole Soviet Union... They got free flats, good works, they never learn Latvian…and we Latvians with our culture were suppressed...

I don't support Breviks actions, but I understand causes.
Latvian
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#58576 - 08/24/11 08:44 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
Hegesias Offline
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“Hey, did you hear about what that Norwegian bastard did”

“Yes, yes I did, a grandiose act of terrorism right?”

“Yes, but, just look at the facebook page! His actions were actually really really not nice at all, people are calling him names and everything”

Breivik has a Shitbook hate page LOL
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#58586 - 08/25/11 03:59 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
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Of course I know I know what Anders Breivik did, he took more than 70 lives in Norway. It’s crime against humanity and we satanists can say about it ‘never forget, never forgive’. But I look on other side of the coin. What are the reasons?!? Why quite many individuals in small nations are against multiculturalism.
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#58588 - 08/25/11 06:46 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
Dimitri Offline
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 Quote:
Imigrants of third world are comming and distorting our culutures and they don't integrate - a lot of them just want good social securities - they don't learn languages, absolutely don't integrate and don't work like parasites.

As for the actual number of people doing so, I have no idea of. But I can imagine that this is not only to be ascribed towards the third world immigrants.

Some learn the languages of the "new" country and will give signs of adaptations. My only problem is taking their cultural luggage with them and endorsing it in any way they can, contradicting certain values and breaking traditions which made my culture succesfull. I loathe them for it, especially when the always present equalitarian mindset defends it with freedom of speech to avoid riots from these (once) immigrants. Europe became a nation thriving on fear for the outside.

There is a reason why I react differently when people of the likes of Breivik start shaking things up. They know what is going on and are willingly to shake the world to wake up and face the problems that came to be, even if it envolves destroying parts of your own culture (which more or less give way to let these things happen in the first place).
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#58599 - 08/25/11 12:19 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
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There's Christian right campaign that screams "No, no, no, Breivik is not a Christian fundamentalist". Here is the last place where I expected somebody to believe in it.

When we say that somebody is a X fundamentalist, we mean that he wants the society to be based on X. And Breivik wants society to based on Christianity. He's ok with atheists and agnostics as long as they "culturally" Christian. If they're not, they're his enemies.

But that's no different from Muslim fundamentalists. Most of them are OK with Christians or Jews, or whatever as long as they submit to the state being Islamic. Actually that's more tolerant than what Breivik says.

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#58606 - 08/25/11 05:35 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Dimitri]
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 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Some learn the languages of the "new" country and will give signs of adaptations.

Of course many individuals in these masses adapt quite good in Europe and work hard, some of them learn native language, integrate and are very good citizens. I speak about trends in immigrants masses and not about some great individuals…

I am in everyday life teacher and some of my pupils, whose parents are immigrants, are good integrated in our culture and country. Immigration is important for Europe, because population of Europe is becoming older and taxes have to be paid to support our social system… But emigration policy of many European countries is too tolerant and they don’t push emigrants to work and integrate in their new homeland and the result - the rights and survival of native people culture are under the threat.

It’s possible, that my opinion is different, because my opinion is grounded on the fact that I belong to quite small nation. I’m Latvian and Latvians are in whole world about 1.7 million and 1.3 million in Latvia.
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#58650 - 08/27/11 02:12 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Multiculturalism is only a movement to those who do not understand it; namely those violently opposed to other cultures in their country and those who mindlessly enforce a policy of unrestrained melting-pot anarchic cultural relativism.

I don't consider myself a part of either group, but that's because multiculturalism is really just an emergent cultural phenomenon. Just because it causes upheaval and friction does not mean it is always a bad or a good thing. It just is. The simplest remedy for a militant stance in either extreme is two-fold: be tolerant that people are different, even if you feel antipathy towards them, and take the power you need to change what you can't abide.

I'm not saying universal xenophilia is the solution, or indeed that society is relativist, but if it bothers you, change it. Breivik failed miserably in changing society to fit his views. He couldn't have been a more successful agitator for his perceived enemies had he tried.

Let me qualify that: polls show that the right and left are dropping in popularity, while the moderate centre are nearing an all-time high. Tolerance and integration have become the trendy cause du jour. Some hardliners are still riding the wave of resentment that Breivik caused, but it's becoming increasingly vilified to ride those coat-tails.

Public commitment to understanding the sociological impact of extremism is peaking, and although this is most likely a fad, Breivik's actions have caused a permanent political shift in the political climate towards the moderate centre and tolerance. The far right and far left are becoming increasingly demonized for their reluctance to abandon their rigid stances.

In a utopian society, political stances should stand and fall on their own merits, but like it or not, they're all about what's popular. And right now the wings are considered evil.

This is how it's always been. After 9/11 everyone knew Muslims were evil. After 7/22 everyone knew the far right were evil. I don't know who's next in line, but you can bet your bottom dollar the media is chomping at the bit to go at them.

Multiculturalism became an issue to talk loudly about following this summer's terrorist acts, and the outcome is that more people will vote, and more people will vote moderate.
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#58651 - 08/27/11 03:29 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
This is how it's always been. After 9/11 everyone knew Muslims were evil. After 7/22 everyone knew the far right were evil. I don't know who's next in line, but you can bet your bottom dollar the media is chomping at the bit to go at them.

Multiculturalism became an issue to talk loudly about following this summer's terrorist acts, and the outcome is that more people will vote, and more people will vote moderate.

Thanks for better insight in multiculturalism and movement against it!

It's right, that I am a bit unofficially in the right wing and now masses think - it is evil! Sometimes with such extremists like Breivik masses, people with herd mentality start to think, that all that are against multiculturalism or the far right are bad, like all Muslims after 9/11 – even formal Muslims, who has cultural heritage or Muslims, who live in secular countries and don’t care much for the pillars of their faith.

It is quite interesting, when happened on 22 July 2011 the bombing of government buildings in Oslo that resulted in eight deaths I read this news in internet and comments of people. 9 from 10 commentators blamed Muslims for it… You are right! When was the mass shooting at a camp of the Workers' Youth League of the Labor Party on the island of Utøya were, where killed ~ 70 people no one blamed Muslims, because news already informed about native Norwegian right-wing extremist - Anders Behring Breivik.

Similar did Hitler, when he wanted to get rid of communists. Göring and Goebbels, with Hitler's approval, then hatched a plan to cause panic by burning the Reichstag building and blaming the Communists. More information can be found in history palace: http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm ! Hitler even said: “The German people have been soft too long. Every Communist official must be shot. All Communist deputies must be hanged this very night. All friends of the Communists must be locked up.”

Stupid herd of Christianity believes lies about Satanists and Satanism, which was spread in satanic panic and now some new-born evangelists, fundamentalists and other freaks spread about Laveyan Satanism and TSB.

Nothing new is in the world, that’s true! We, Satanists are trained to see through ideology for masses to see real causes.
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#58652 - 08/27/11 03:41 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Latvian]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Personally, I don't mind other cultures, so long as they don't insist on their superiority over others'. People are people, and should live the way they want. It's when people form opinion blocs I start to worry. Herd thinking leads to few good things. As we know, nine out of ten participants in a gang rape think gang rape is good. In my universe, people can believe and think whatever they want, so long as I get to disagree.
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#58654 - 08/27/11 05:11 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
Personally, I don't mind other cultures, so long as they don't insist on their superiority over others'. People are people, and should live the way they want. It's when people form opinion blocs I start to worry. Herd thinking leads to few good things. As we know, nine out of ten participants in a gang rape think gang rape is good. In my universe, people can believe and think whatever they want, so long as I get to disagree.
I'm not saying I am as understanding as you are, but I can relate in my own way as I too have personal manners. I don't mind other cultures because I don't care about cultures or anything to do with a sense of identity in the way mundanes do. I just see pottering mundanes that may or may not inconvenience me. I really don't mind anyone insisting on their superiority or imposing anything, it's the fact that I can go to jail for my retaliation that is quite unacceptable. The laws they have created protect them, serves to allow their infantile psychology to play out on the world creating an enormous embarrassment.

In all honesty I really can't understand why Breivik could be bothered to kill those people, I guess it was his enthusiasm that caused me to take notice, otherwise it would have been just another day. I wouldn't go out of my way to warrant that kind of attention to humanity.

Laying in his cell with nothing to do but imagine what could have been of his life, Breivik sees a cockroach scurrying across the cell and he immediately crushes it in disgust. His reality dawning in ugly sobriety. Breivik has an epiphany: “I am confined to four walls for doing the exact same thing.”
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#58659 - 08/27/11 08:51 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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Loc: Orlando, FL
His manifesto suggests that "martyrdom" was his ultimate goal, but he didn't pull through on that one...

I kind of wish Breivik was thrown in a moldy dungeon somewhere, but in all reality he's probably in a standard detainment center. Norway has a reputation for coddling criminals with "luxurious" prisons, but the Norwegian government seems to be stripping off the liberal gloves for this one, seeking to charge him with "crimes against humanity".

In related news, Varg Vikernes put in his two cents on Breivik, criticizing him as a misguided pawn for the Zionist Elite who obviously (duh) are the REAL scapegoats for the world's woes... (but I also have a sneaking suspicion Varg might feel a little bitter towards Breivik for stealing his title as Norway's national boogeyman.)
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#58669 - 08/28/11 11:41 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
Diavolo Offline
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Charging him with "crimes against humanity" is a bit dramatic not? I mean, it's almost putting him on the same level as Milošević or Eichman.

Surely, one has to do a bit more effort to be considered part of that category.

If they prefer to bend the rules in his case, why don't they just do instead of using this sort of excuse.

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#58673 - 08/28/11 03:04 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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Being the liberal that I am, I have to say that as much as it galls me, Breivik should have a fair trial like everyone else. There are laws against terrorism, and those laws are meant to safeguard both the public and the criminal. Those laws are meant as expressions of justice, and shouldn't be subverted at the first hint of a crime we don't like.

Admittedly, some members here think the system is inherently flawed and should be removed completely. That's their prerogative. Personally, I think being diligent in seeing justice carried out in an unbiased fashion is an expression that it works. Even though I have my own ideas about what punishment would fit his particular crime. If the justice system is to be trusted, even just a little, it needs to ensure Breivik has a fair trial, a good defence and due process.

My opinion is that he should either be tortured to death over a period of years or kept in hermetic isolation for the remainder of his days. But it's not my call, and I wasn't the one who lost the most. It's easy for me to accede to the judgement of the courts. Sometimes I'm a little glad this is the case.
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#58674 - 08/28/11 03:27 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Diavolo Offline
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There is no such thing as a fair trial since essentially they judge you based upon your submission or revolt towards the rules of a game they invented.

Now mind you, I understand all the reasoning behind laws and rules but the very reason why there are many problems is our total submission towards these legal systems and its instruments. We still judge and condemn what goes on in our environment but we no longer interfere and this passivity creates the perfect soil for many problems.

Breivik, even when disliking his specific targeting, at least took matters into his own hands, something which might have been unnecessary if the "people" didn't surrender theirs to the government long ago.

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#58675 - 08/28/11 03:46 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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I see what you mean, and I definitely understand rebelling against oppressive systems. The reason I adhere to it in this case - or indeed in other cases - is that once the public smells blood in the water, they need to see a fair process to retain trust in the system that protects them. That this process is a sham - if you are indeed right that no fair trial exists - does not matter to the public at large, so long as they never find out.

So Breivik will be tried, convicted and sentenced to life imprisonment, and the general public will form a consensus that some form of justice has taken place. Granted, public perception will be divided, and interest groups will spring up immediately following the conviction, regardless of the result. These voices will be heard and ignored. Ultimately, all that is to follow is excruciatingly predictable.

The system is not for the perp. It's for the public. Slightly obscenely, it is meant to be a humane sentence so people can feel they're civilized.
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#58676 - 08/28/11 03:57 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Diavolo Offline
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The ironic part is that the public wants the system to bring him to justice for a crime the very system has its part in.

Not only is it never about justice, it is simply revenge, but also is the populace crying for justice, the same populace apathetic about what enabled this crime.

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#58677 - 08/28/11 04:15 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
SkaffenAmtiskaw Moderator Offline
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That depends what qualities we ascribe revenge and justice. Revenge is honest, but detrimental to the fabric of a law-based society, whereas with justice it's often turned on its head. It's the cost of living with herd, I think.
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#58679 - 08/28/11 05:31 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: SkaffenAmtiskaw
Revenge is honest, but detrimental...

I find for me it quite useful in practical life. I have to learn and educate myself more and more in satanic stance and not to cling to some side dogmas or opinions... I have to learn - don't give much attention to trends and processes in society, which I don't like, if my activity can bring for me bad results.
Sometimes I feel true reasons to revenge, but I learn to stop and don't go too far, because it can bring me bad consequences and I will realize my true revenge I can destroy all my life.
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#58682 - 08/28/11 06:23 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
All civilizations claim to adhere to some sort of moral and ethical ideal, which they will all too willingly drop for the sake of bringing down the hammer and reinforcing their power. (The CIA's carefully-planned assassination of Usama Bin Laden, for instance...)

That's the way the story goes. So while the modern ideal calls for "democratic justice", I wouldn't be surprised if Breivik goes straight for the noose, figuratively speaking.
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#58683 - 08/28/11 06:42 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Sure revenge is honest but revenge is the privilege of them involved, not of those affected, and if they are not willing to execute their revenge themselves, it should be considered forfeited.

The problem of a law-based society is that people freely choose a state of servitude, a submission to their higher powers and as such, render themselves powerless; impotent. They choose to endure and then demand justice to be done in their name. Justice they can't no longer bring themselves.

A honor-based society does not suffer this impotence. Revenge will be executed swiftly. There is no need to invoke a higher power since all are that power. There is no need to endure, to render oneself powerless because a law not their own tells them so. There is only that what has to be done.

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#58694 - 08/29/11 02:30 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
a. don Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Sure revenge is honest but revenge is the privilege of them involved, not of those affected, and if they are not willing to execute their revenge themselves, it should be considered forfeited.


The problem is, in a society, does revenge solve the causes of a violent situation? For example, if you are wielding your revenge against me, how would you be sure that the reasons to suspect of me are not tarnished by your prejudice against me? Would punishing me directly avoid yourself retaliation, say considering if I had allies, or people who sympathize with me? Or in this case, would killing Breivik prevent another incident like this in Europe? Also, how useful can it be to create radicalist martyrs?

Besides, is justice and order obtained necessarily by the implementation of an eye-for-an-eye legal action? Why is it that in most countries where the death penalty is employed the violence rate is really high, and in countries where the death penalty was abolished the violence rate is low?

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo


The problem of a law-based society is that people freely choose a state of servitude, a submission to their higher powers and as such, render themselves powerless; impotent. They choose to endure and then demand justice to be done in their name. Justice they can't no longer bring themselves.

A honor-based society does not suffer this impotence. Revenge will be executed swiftly. There is no need to invoke a higher power since all are that power. There is no need to endure, to render oneself powerless because a law not their own tells them so. There is only that what has to be done.



On what honor is an honor-based society based on? That is, honor is implicit in the implementation of a code of conduct based on certain principles from a given philosophy or point of view. Now you can live in a society where codes of conduct are not written out, being in danger of deficient application towards yourself given if someone were to have a problem with you; or these codes of conduct can be written down.

Now, to put these codified principles in practice, you could do it yourself. But the danger in doing so, is that your actions can be construed as unfairly motivated subjecting yourself and others to perpetual retaliation. Therefore, you and your society can "hire" a social entity aimed towards the implementation of a legal code.

Human evolution has depended on our faculties of reasoning and organizing. Society is organization. Society in itself has evolved in relation to our faculties to reason.

Now it's true that there are retrograde societies where ignorance and/or corruption have brought them to a general state of violence and "illness". Yet in these cases who is responsible for this? Society in itself, which has either directly chosen its legal system or has allowed the circumstances in which such was conceived. But that's a different matter ;\)

The bottom line is that I think you are reducing something that is usually inherently complex. We are where we are for many different reasons, we have evolved from primal local tribes to global massive societies where dealing with problems is not as simple as before.

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#58702 - 08/29/11 10:09 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: a. don]
Diavolo Offline
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The problem in our society is that revenge is solely a matter of the law. Citizens have two options; they either follow the rules or they break them. Even at matters which solely relate to them, i.e. you doing me wrong, they are not allowed to bring their own justice to the matter, unless it doesn't conflict with the law. Which means that if you and I have a problem, we can talk things out between ourselves but we can't do more than this. Everything required beyond this, we have to surrender to the law.

The concern of the law is not to solve the cause of any problem but to judge, and punish if they think it is needed, any result of these problems. If we both have a problem and I beat you up because of it, the law will punish me for beating you up. Which implies that after I am punished, the initial situation did not change at all. Which again explains why offenders, instead of just paying for their crime as the societal mantra goes, are degraded into a separate class of being; criminals. They have to be continuously suppressed exactly because only the result (their act) was punished while the cause (reason) was neglected. The law is not interested in the cause at all.

So no, the punishment of Breivik will not change anything at all, it punishes a result. Whether he will do time in jail, or will be executed if that was an option, are merely trivialities to this.

A honor-based society is one where honor is an integral part of culture. Honor is really not that complicated; it is a matter of respect and responsibility. Respect for others which naturally flows from self-respect and the will to do what is needed which is responsibility. The hard question is not what honor is, but what self-respect is. The differences between people are situated in this self-respect. Their interactions are based upon this self-respect. It is through this self-respect there is recognition.

Now I admit, it is a long road from our current fractured society towards a honor-based society but it is not an as far-fetched idea as many assume. It is already in place in many groups, although tribes might be a more accurate description for these, and problems there are sorted out based upon their code of conduct. But to get there, we might need to abandon the idea we require one law to rule them all. We might need to abandon the idea that we must find this one great compromise that works for everyone.

Maybe we need to allow people to make a choice instead of forcing rules upon them.

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#58710 - 08/30/11 12:16 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
a. don Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree with an honor-code system, that is, a society with laws that are implemented through responsibility, respect for the other member and for oneself.

Yet these societies can only exist on a small scale due to the fact that few people decide to belong to such, and other few people decide whether or not the latter few people belong or not.

On a larger scale, it is impossible to admit everyone without imposing these laws forcibly, hence requiring a specific "law"-enforcement entity to do so.

I believe this is one of the reasons why socialism failed.. :P


Edited by a. don (08/30/11 12:17 AM)

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#58714 - 08/30/11 02:06 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: a. don]
Diavolo Offline
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I'm not thinking large scale, I see things small scale. We have to quit assuming large scale has more benefits.

You might think of all the progress we made due to the large scale but I don't see any progress worth it. During the last 50 years our life expectancy increased with what? Something between 5 and 10 years? So we didn't really improve much there. So what progress is actually worth all this? Yet another phone that now can cook your dinner too? An even bigger and brighter television that provides you mostly some worthless shit between commercials? A more advanced car you can drive somewhere just like the previous but now with a shitload of stuff you never needed before?

Our main progress implies we work more and longer to be able to just live in this society and all the rest we spend on shit we don't need which is already being replaced the very moment we got it. Our progress is that we became experts in useless shit. We became masters in creating needless needs.

So I wonder why we need to think large scale, why should we construct our societies large scale?

What would actually be lost when going tribal again?

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#58715 - 08/30/11 03:42 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
a. don Offline
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Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
I know about some tribes in the Amazon or back in Africa, I don't think you'd enjoy it there.

If we were to regress, we'd probably end up where we are now in a couple hundred or thousand years. Why not try to resolve this "massive tribe" in which we have evolved?

I mean consider this, we have gone to writing in stone or hieroglyphs to having machines where we can type stuff up, as well as navigate the internet and be in almost instant contact with anyone around the world.....from smoke signals to cell phones which also posses cameras, internet, and so forth

I'm sure you loathe driving to work just as much as you despise microwave ovens and cold beer in your refrigerator and hate typing on that computer of yours to contend with some advocate of useless shit such as myself.

I do agree that many people use these tools for banalities like recreation or whatever. Yet even the most responsible have to admit that they have done such as well, and it's nice to have that option available. Yet the responsible will always produce and that banal will eventually fade away.

Personally, I love living in the city (although some peace and quiet in the mountains or out in the country is cool sometimes) - but one can't deny that we take for granted a lot of our "useless shit."


Edited by a. don (08/30/11 03:43 AM)

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#58721 - 08/30/11 12:50 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: a. don]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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What of all this progress we made, all this technology we invented, defines what you are as a person? What of anything you have really defines who you are?

Look at people; it's as if they're all at some ER hooked up to worth-support. This one's self-esteem is dropping to critical levels doctor, we better connect him to that new model iPod or give him some useless job title quickly. Society has successfully individualized people and objectified what defines them as a person. Everything they are is under a constant threat of devaluation. Ask anyone what they accomplished in life and most will just list goods and jobs. Having done well equals having conformed completely. I can understand people desiring to become older and older because everything that defines them as a person is expressed outside of them. Their accomplishments read like a shopping catalogue.

So what actually is the value of all this progress to me as a person? What more did it make me? Absolutely nothing at all. Not one thing that defines what I am can be provided by anything else but me. All it did was create more sleepwalkers, more cattle. More rats to run the race and keep an absolutely despicable system in place.


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#58722 - 08/30/11 01:46 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
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Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
What of all this progress we made, all this technology we invented, defines what you are as a person? What of anything you have really defines who you are?

Look at people; it's as if they're all at some ER hooked up to worth-support. This one's self-esteem is dropping to critical levels doctor, we better connect him to that new model iPod or give him some useless job title quickly. Society has successfully individualized people and objectified what defines them as a person. Everything they are is under a constant threat of devaluation. Ask anyone what they accomplished in life and most will just list goods and jobs. Having done well equals having conformed completely. I can understand people desiring to become older and older because everything that defines them as a person is expressed outside of them. Their accomplishments read like a shopping catalogue.

So what actually is the value of all this progress to me as a person? What more did it make me? Absolutely nothing at all. Not one thing that defines what I am can be provided by anything else but me. All it did was create more sleepwalkers, more cattle. More rats to run the race and keep an absolutely despicable system in place.

Marvellous.

I feel quite angered reading your words because I can relate, and I see them too. I can see how much you value life by what you write.

I do not sympathise with Breivik but I see a person who was feeling very horrible inside and didn't even realise how horrible he felt, as it was too many years feeling horrible. He tried to make a change by himself and put all his heart into it, but Breivik is only a dim part of himself operating.

The pitiless painting all around is what creates the feeling of a lacking which only serves to make me more determined to stay true to my values. I have no interest in the culture around me, only “my” culture concerns me. Antiquitous Greek aestheticism goes well with progressive weight training lol. I just think, why is media so negative and full of so much utter shit, unhealthy mundane narcissism based on such meaningless social cues that pass for normatives, I haven't watched TV in years because the consumerist commercials and meaningless entertainment shows make me feel sick. Like watching institutionalised apes consume their own faeces, quite pleased, not knowing any better. I don't pity humans like that, I just feel quite unwell, like living on an alien planet where nobody speaks my language.

How fucking miserable that mundanes do not embrace life like Satanists do, that they do not have a genuine interest in meaning, philosophy, ideology, nor any residual enthusiasm about their own culture. I live in my Nietzsche books and have Indo-European values, I motivate people at college applying my personal trainer skills. I can't see anyone else around me who wants the same things in life. They all go back to their TV's and bickering at their families, consumerism, consumerism, consumerism.

At the gym the other instructors feed people a lot of shit to keep their money coming in, telling them what to do on a need to know basis, step by step and telling them what to think rather than how to think about exercise and nutrition. I teach people how to train instinctively and to use intuition with diet and workouts, they don't need me after a few sessions lol

Consumerism is everywhere.

I see Philistine architecture and so called modern art, meaninglessness, no Hellenic or Norse statues, no Wotan, Thorr, Dionysus, Venus, Valkyries... Everything looks like it is inspired by plastic hospital furniture, drawn up on photoshop in an hour or so with the consumerist in mind.


Edited by Hegesias (08/30/11 02:14 PM)
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#58725 - 08/30/11 09:56 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Hegesias]
The Zebu Offline
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Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Everything looks like it is inspired by plastic hospital furniture, drawn up on photoshop in an hour or so with the consumerist in mind.


Pretty much sums up my career path.

Anyways, I made a new thread for the tribalism tangent, since I think it's a fertile topic deserving of elaboration, but would not like to derail the current thread.

http://www.the600club.com/topic58723-1.html
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#60745 - 11/01/11 05:19 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: The Zebu]
TheInsane Offline
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Posts: 356
I find myself agreeing with many point in the original video and especially the guilt by association. By even raising certain questions some people regard you as fascist, xenophobic, chauvinistic, racist or any of the other commonly popular slurs. The fascist one is of course the most laughable since people using it doesnt know what it means at all.

In Sweden we have a culturally nationalistic party (The Sweden Democrats - SD) that made its way above the 4% voters quote to get into the Swedish parliment. They grew out of a marginalized movement in the 1980's where parts were more extreme. But with time they have worked on their image and today they mainly inhabit the same position politically as the other Swedish political parties in the parliment (they all seem to be very concerned to not stand out to much in comparison to the others). They are however critical of Islam, multiculturalism and immigration. Usually using arguments supported by objective research.

Because of this no one wants to touch them. Since no political block has a majority SD has a tip of the scale position. But it is more important for the other parties to stay away from SD rather than discussing issues with them that could help them gain enough votes to realize their own political goals. This shows how unimportant actual political change in accordance with their ideology is. Its more important to take a stand than to strive to realize the ideas which you think are right. And at times it has been even worse. The left wing party made a big fuzz that they had to share the copier machine with the SD. And we are supposed to trust these people with ruling the country?

All the while they all praise multiculturalism which is something you can critisize or you would be regarded as a fool – and some people loose their jobs for holding such views in public. All the while anyone can see that a multicultural society doesnt work. They defend it by saying that it creates diversity and that this is a good thing in and of itself and that we have to take the good with the bad until things have worked out. Well what can happen is one of two things. (1) Immigrants become integrated into Swedish society and then a new dominant culture will rise. Diversity will then dissapear. How this will look we dont know. Some are afraid it will be more muslim and fear this. Some think its will be a melting pot of all the things we currently have. (2) People become segregated and separate communities will rise. This is what is actually happening and the suburbs become increasingly non-Swedish and because people here dont have to speak the native language they cant get work. If they cant get work they cant be integrated and criminal behaviour rises.

On top of this Swedens own culture is always downplayed. Our current leader (the moderate party) said this once: ”The original Swedish is only savegery”. And his main opponent in the last election, Mona Sahlin (social democrat), said this [in regards to other ethinic groups]: ”You have a culture, an identity, a history, something to bind you together. And what do we have? We have midsummers [old pagan tradition] and these kind of silly things”. The leader for the center party at the time, Maud Olofsson, said the following: ”It wasnt us Swedes that built Sweden”.

With the entry of the SD some people have agreed that the current way of dealing with emigration has failed (despite all the evidence for years and years this seems to be a big step for them). What do the ruling block do about it then? They reach over to one of the opposition parties and creates a deal which will allow Sweden to accept more immigrants.

Isnt this mind boggling?

I heard it was the same in Belgium where the flemish independence parties now have 46% combined making it the first time all the other parties have lost their majority in the flemish parliments but that the subject is still infected despite the popularity of the ideas. It seems like France is much the same way with the Front National recently predicted to have a 23% support but they are still being accused of things they do not stand for and that they are somehow nazis.

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#60755 - 11/01/11 01:38 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: TheInsane
I heard it was the same in Belgium where the flemish independence parties now have 46% combined making it the first time all the other parties have lost their majority in the flemish parliments but that the subject is still infected despite the popularity of the ideas. It seems like France is much the same way with the Front National recently predicted to have a 23% support but they are still being accused of things they do not stand for and that they are somehow nazis.


They are assembling a Flemish minority government while the Flemish are the majority in Belgium and all this out of personal political protectionism. I ain't complaining because it only throws more fuel on the fire.

D.

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#60784 - 11/01/11 06:09 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Diavolo]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
A quite interesting thing happened recently. A hockey player got into a fight with someone from the opposing team. Apparently they both used foul language. However one of them, Martin Sevc, called the other, Daniel Rahimi, a "fucking gypsy" just as they elft the ice.

The result? A 3 game suspension where one of the games were made into a fine of 20000 SEK (roughly 2200 Euros or $3000).

Now I am not for calling people rude words left and right and I can understand someone taking offence but its just ridiculous and it does tie in with the original video in that some things are so taboo that by regulating them super hard it will actually have the opposite effect once people understand what is happening.

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#60823 - 11/02/11 06:38 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
According to a Norwegian newspaper, a professor specializing in violence research states that there could be a connection between Breivik's actions and the series of assault rapes that have happened in Oslo over the last few months. (The text is freely translated by me.)

"- What is special about Breivik, is that he put an evil thought into life. Many children are bullied, many children are aggressive, but they do not put their thoughts into actions for that reason. (...)

He believes the outside world makes a huge mistake if they consider Anders Behring Breivik a mad man.

- There are parts of Breivik in us all. But he has put the parts together into a whole and trained for this, says the professor who is pointing out that Breivik showed an extreme capacity when he carried out his plans. (...) - There must be men in Norway who are secretly impressed by what Breivik did. What he did can be a trigger for others to cross the limit."

It could seem like a valid point. If it actually is the case (which of course would be nearly impossible to prove), I sure find it really disturbing. For those of you who are not familiar with Norway, I should mention that both rape and murder is quite uncommon here, so the high number of both incidents have been just frightening lately.

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#60838 - 11/02/11 10:54 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Vinter]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
We were actually discussing a topic related to this at work today. Someone said that Norway had been feeling a wave of rape cases lately and also that an unusual amount of murders have been commited recently. I hadnt heard of this. Is it accurate and if so what is the official public stance on this?
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#60842 - 11/02/11 11:41 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
Well, so far this year, there have been reported 49 assault rapes in Oslo. This is twice as many as in 2010 altogether. To use last month as an example, there were reported rapes in Oslo on the 1., 8., 23. (two in one night) and the 30. (also two in one night). Let me just repeat that these are highly unusual numbers for Norway. This is a country where as good as every reported rape makes it to national newspapers. There have also been five murder cases in Oslo in only one month, between the 29th of Sempember and the 30th of October.

The happenings on the 22nd of July still takes up a lot of resources in the Oslo police department, so one can safely say that they've got their hands full now after all these rapes and murders. Other than that, I don't think there is any official public stance on this, apart from the usual comments that "this is unacceptable" and "we have to do something" et cetera. The people are quite frustrated though; it has been spoken of neighborhood watches and one alleged rapist was for instance identified on Facebook with the text I am a rapist underneath, and a text encouraging people to call the police if they see him.

A spokesman for the Norwegian authorities says "- The people are outraged. They are angry about all the assaults and rapes and the authorities' lack of success in resolving them. Therefore, they are creating "vigilante alliances" to show their disgust".

Edit: You can see the censored picture further down in the article, but the one circulating on Facebook is uncensored. The same spokesman calls this "disturbing", as there is yet no actual proof of the rape. Nevertheless, it clearly shows how desperate and outraged the people of Norway are right now.


Edited by Vinter (11/02/11 11:47 AM)

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#60855 - 11/02/11 02:03 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Vinter]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem of the West is that their "communities" have vaporized. They have successfully been individualized and in that rendered powerless.

The idea that the government takes care of them, protects and defends them, was and is an illusion and slowly people are waking up from this. Reality is turning out to be quite different.

People are realizing that if they don't take care of themselves, none will. The only sensible option is to form communities again, tribes, and decide and act as such.

D.

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#60886 - 11/02/11 06:20 PM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: Vinter]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
The statistics are worse than I thought. An increase of over 100% is worrying to say the least.

In Sweden the number of reports of rape has increased alot over time. Some think its because the quantities of rape has increased while others think its a case of more people reporting rape after the fact. I am guessing the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It should be said that the legal definition of rape is wider in Sweden compared to most other countries as well.

What is disturbing is the overrepresentation of certain peoples (namely non-European and African).

Nothing is really done to prevent this from happening though. One man was charged with rape and was supposed to be deported (he was not a Swedish citizen). He ended up in jail and served time. He got out earlier, probably on the grounds of "good behaviour", and immediately did the same thing again - twice I believe. Amnesty International even had a campain to let him stay in Sweden since he was "risking torture" if he was deported. The man is still in Sweden. I think that speaks volumes of the kind of society we have today.

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#61047 - 11/04/11 09:21 AM Re: On the Radicalization of Breivik [Re: TheInsane]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
Yep, it sure is worrying. I mean, "date rapes" committed by "friends" or acquaintances are bad enough, but the increase in assault rapes in the streets and parks of Oslo makes one wonder what the hell is going on. One would think that these rapes should be the easiest to resolve too, as the victims are physically attacked and not just raped while they're drunk and almost unconscious. One would think that there would be enough evidence or witnesses, but apparently that's not the case. A girl was even raped right outside the Parliament building in Oslo, at the steps of the building. I sure see why women in Oslo are worried and why people are angry.
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