Page 2 of 3 <123>
Topic Options
#58745 - 08/31/11 04:20 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: MindFux]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
To a degree clans or tribes always have been a part of modern society.

Much originated out of poverty in an evolving society not caring about its underclass. So they tribed together and ensured their own survival, following their own codes. Most organized crime came to birth like this and in the modern days, this is where you also find the gangs. It could be argued that even while societies evolved to their all-encompassing forms, clans are the true form while the abstract mass-society we uphold is merely an illusion.


Top
#58757 - 08/31/11 11:51 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Diavolo]
a. don Offline
pledge


Registered: 07/25/09
Posts: 60
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo


The same could be said about religion not? And yet there we are, calling ourselves satanists and taking pride in having removed that out of our mindset.



Actually, Satanism (In LaVey's view) is constructed as a religion: "Herein you will find truth—and fantasy. Each is necessary for the other to exist; but each must be recognized for what it is." (Preface to The Satanic Bible) and most important "It has become necessary for a NEW religion, based on man’s natural instincts, to come forth. THEY have named it. It is called Satanism." (TSB, Some Evidence for a New Satanic Age)

Someone here pointed out that even if one rejects the idea of God, and the concept of religion, sooner or later one's current beliefs gain a "religious function", such as, for example, "the apologetics of science" in Dawkins' case.

Top
#58760 - 09/01/11 04:38 AM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
To a degree clans or tribes always have been a part of modern society.

Much originated out of poverty in an evolving society not caring about its underclass. So they tribed together and ensured their own survival, following their own codes. Most organized crime came to birth like this and in the modern days, this is where you also find the gangs. It could be argued that even while societies evolved to their all-encompassing forms, clans are the true form while the abstract mass-society we uphold is merely an illusion.

By looking away from others and concentrating on self overcoming, not to outline any political regime, but rather a severe pathworking for the realisation of individual potential. By recognising that it is what we endure that defines us as men of the earth, this is how we rule the mundane. Repressing whimsical impulses for power in order to achieve greater acquisition of power. In a simple way: In repressing the impulse to visit attentions to compulsion and every whim and fancy, we most deliberately turn the impulse to cruelty inwardly, not only causing the propensity of the Dionysian man to become all the more pervasive, but in doing this, besides smiling inwardly in a way they [utilitarian mundanes] will never understand; the will and mind become stronger!

I began to study the creatures diligently and decided they are not helping themselves; I became disgusted with the sunken eyes of broken apes, pottering in monotonous absurdity, knowing not any different, pleased are they rotting in the shit that they have created blaming phantoms in murmurs of indigence that serve to solidify their precarious humility. I once wished for these sorry sights to have the intelligences for penance and reflection as to what is happening so they would vomit and die from immense emotional trauma. I still wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-realisation.

Again as reverberates through this forum, value and worth and meaning. How immensely frustrating to live such distances apart. This only serves for more determination as the most sobering irony is found in immense misfortune. Satanists laugh joyously in a way they [the indignant] do not understand. We lead by example and leave them [the indignant mundanes] to their own devices!

Now who in their right mind of conscience would want to be comrades with somebody as terrible as me? I would. So I know.

What most stimulated me about The Order of Nine Angles was the talk of testing and ordeals. What this says is of great worth and meaning. Why? Not to solidify some localised self image but to ask: Who would trust another baring the semblance of superiority but without validity of competence? Would we put our determination and hopes in the belly of those who would scatter like mortified lambs? No! We conspire together with those baring the most terrible teeth. It is what we endure that makes us stronger.


Edited by Hegesias (09/01/11 05:14 AM)
Edit Reason: grammar
_________________________


Top
#58766 - 09/01/11 12:29 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: a. don]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What or what not Lavey said is of little importance here. What is importance is how much control we can exercise over that which is natural to us. I think more than we realize.

I firmly believe in Will to Power, that drive which is inherent to all life. It's this drive that creates hierarchy and change. But this drive is not beyond control, at least not the direction it takes. The drive is influenced by culture and as such, in a honor-based culture, will focus upon honor. Just like it focuses on righteousness in a culture putting the emphasis upon that. Or on possessions in a material-driven culture.

As such, consumerism is only important in cultures considering it important. Consumerism itself is not ingrained in humans and neither is religion.

Top
#58767 - 09/01/11 02:19 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Diavolo]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1726
Loc: New York
There is a life style that I find very appealing. There are quite a few individuals in the U.S, who have gotten tired of the proverbial rat race and have decided to live as freelly as possible, but without becoming Anarchists.

Many travel around in Motor homes, and vans full time. These vehicles range from empty vans that have been filled with just the basic necessities while some can’t completely let go of the “comforts of home,” and travel in Motor homes that cost more then many houses.

Most of the people who are into this kind of traveling life style have elected to be apart of it, although more and more people are forced into the vagabond way of living due to recent economic problems.

The ones who chose to live this way tend to be individualistic and prefer to live on their own terms. However they don’t completely give up socialization. Several times a year there are get together’s where they arrange to meet up in large groups, share experiences and enjoy each other’s company, and in a sense consider themselves part of a nomadic “tribe,” while at the same time maintaining their individuality.

There is no need to go off the grid completely. These people have valid driver’s licenses and other “necessary” papers. Most of them are quite comfortable living by established rules and tend to keep a low profile. There are a few States in the U.S where a person can establish residency with very few requirements. I think that in South Dakota for example, all that a person has to do is go there, stay in a hotel over night, then take the receipt to the local Motor Vehicle department, along with some form of identification and they can get a South Dakota driving license, although the government in order to “ensure” at least the feeling of security, is making it more and more difficult for individuals to not have a home address, but it is still doable.

As I mentioned earlier I find this way of living very appealing. So much so that the only reason that I keep working at my crappy job is that I’m in the process of trying to save up for a smaller motor home as well as enough money to have as a safety cushion.
Many vagabonds have some kind of an income such as social security (for the older ones) but there are those that also work; some full time and some only occasionally.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#58768 - 09/01/11 04:34 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Asmedious]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
As there is talk about “off the grid”.

The basic philosophy is anti-government and anti-authority, yet, unfortunately, often devalues the individuals freedom. Unfortunately, many people who are unwilling to be governed are serving life sentences with no possibility of parole and still maintain dignity in prison. Prison gangs teach culture and education directly from members life experience ruling the streets, some of which includes experiences from inside prison, even their own sign language and cultural moral code is taught often with a tattoo codex unique to individual gangs or prisons. With thousands of inmates in the yard, no witnesses will step forward for inmates who get corrected for their dishonourableness by gang members. A man condemned as a criminal by society seems to be regarded as filth no matter what his deeds reflect. Their is much honour in prisons, just as there is the obvious despicableness.
_________________________


Top
#58769 - 09/01/11 04:43 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Hegesias]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Mankind and western ivilazation have not oved past tribalism. Is a nation not just a really large tribe?

All established social categories and communities appeal to humanity's tribalist drive.

Top
#58770 - 09/01/11 05:35 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Meph9]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Maybe I lost the plot Meph9 or I'm motivated about the potential application of the ideas being presented here. I would posit that the affirmation as to current politics serving mundanes a purpose and not so much for us is part of the design and cause of the threads direction.

Forming tribes of Left-Path individuals may be more practical after presenting ideas as to synthesise individual means for the practical elements of tribalism rather than to establish that we are already one big tribe. We are not here to fragment the application to a mass political regime to be accepted by mundanes. Not solely denoting that you were. It is simply not in me to express my held views in a sympathetic tone, I'd get writers block or something.

Dionysian intensity breaks down boundaries in civilisation, the triumph of wild nature. Dionysian as the Tribal, “Barbarian” society.

What is the significance of this? It was always the barbarian caste who was the nobler caste.



Edited by Hegesias (09/01/11 05:55 PM)
_________________________


Top
#58773 - 09/01/11 07:06 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Hegesias]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1726
Loc: New York

I don’t believe that because someone wants to live “off the grid,” or without government influence will end up in jail for certain.
Granted, they have to be smart about what they do, and even what they don’t do, because “Mundane’s” tend to be greatly threatened by those who are different then they are or those whom they do not understand. That is unless the “unique” individual chooses to cloak themselves in some kind of religious armor which in today’s society can rarely be attacked do to political correctness and the fact that most Mundane’s would rather embrace some insane religious notion that they are unfamiliar with rather then to tolerate a person or a group which does not believe in superstition.

My main experience with prison populations is the crap that I see on the National Geographic chanel so I am not qualified to discuss the “honor” system behind prison walls. However, I am relatively confident in stating that I would not be in favor of getting rid of law enforcement and general civility in favor of having to survive among the type of populations that I see on that show. The idea of sleeping with one eye open and constantly watching my back does not appeal to me.

 Quote:
A man condemned as a criminal by society seems to be regarded as filth no matter what his deeds reflect.


Unfortunately this is quite true. I’ve known some people who made some “mistakes,” and have been branded with the “Felony,” mark and their lives have been pretty much ruined. Being in the health field and having some experience in the Truck driving field, I know for a fact that anyone with a felony on their record would have almost zero chance of entering either one of those fields.
I’ve thought often about what my options would be if I ever had a Felony conviction on my record and the prospects would be grim. I would go as far as to say that at that point the only option that I see is that I would have to find away to survive through more criminal activity, or somehow take the easier route and find away to become the ward of the state, such as through welfare or a disability claim. One of the more unfortunate facts is that it doesn’t take that much to get a Felony charge these days and most prospective employers do not take into consideration if it’s a Class 1 felony or a class 3.

As far as the world is concerned a 17 year old person dating a 16 year old is a felon once the 17 year old turns 18 and continues to want to have a consensual relationship with the person that they have been dating for several years. All it takes is the parent of the minor to want to cause waves and trouble and the 18 year old will be classified pretty much for the rest of their lives in the same category as an ax murderer on parole.

So yes, someone who wishes to live “off the grid,” would be wise to be careful in their actions. Unique individuals make up only a few drops in a sea of mundane’s. However those that walk the Left Hand path generally have one powerful thing in their favor, which is intelligence and their will. Usually they get into trouble when the Will over powers their intelligence.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#58774 - 09/01/11 07:16 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Asmedious]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't know how it is in the USA As, but here, if you want to live off the grid, completely, you will run into problems.

Everyone that reaches 12 (I think) gets an ID that has to be renewed every 10 years (I think, got to check). If you have no address, you can't get a new ID, so when living off the grid, your ID will expire. The moment it expires, the moment the cops check your ID, you're paperless which will be a problem. No ID and no money qualifies you as a tramp which is considered as breaking the law.

So there is no "outside" the system here.

Top
#58775 - 09/01/11 09:39 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Diavolo]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1726
Loc: New York
They tried awhile back to pass a National ID act in the states but luckily it didn’t go through. Although it would have had its advantages it would have been a real blow to individual freedom.
On the other hand, it is kind of an unwritten law that people should have some kind of identification on them and the cops get suspicious if one doesn’t.
In a sense our driver’s licenses have become a form of national identification since most people do drive cars.


Edited by Asmedious (09/01/11 09:40 PM)
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

Top
#58778 - 09/02/11 07:30 AM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Hegesias]
when7iseleven Offline
member


Registered: 07/11/11
Posts: 199
Loc: High Peak, UK
There is nothing noble about the father who takes his 16 year old daughter into a UK city street in the middle of the day, makes her kneel on the ground & slits her throat leaving her to die......all in the name of honour.

Those 100 or so men that dragged a 17 year old girl from her house & proceeded to stone her to death, which took over half an hour, were not noble men even if this was done for the sake of honour.

Have you ever ben in prison? Well I can tell you that the idea it's honour that keeps discilpline within prison gangs, or some kind moral code that keeps gang members in line is romantic fantacism. The men at the top of the gangs are probably the hardest, most brutal men you could ever meet who dish out discipline on a whim & whilst they might say they live by a code, they are the writers of it & change it to suit them & only them. Maybe this type of hierarchical regime is necessary in prisons but do not think there's anything honourable going on, it's survival & nothing more.
_________________________
There but for the Grace of I go I

Top
#58785 - 09/02/11 05:52 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: when7iseleven]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think the concept of honor isn't the problem here but self-respect.

But even besides that, and even while I find their traditions clearly retarded at some levels, we should not act too undignified about it. We are appalled when they stone someone for the sake of their honor but at the same time we don't give a rat's ass that people die fabricating our stone-washed jeans.

This also can be regarded as a retarded aspect of culture.


Top
#58793 - 09/02/11 10:39 PM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: Diavolo]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I don't know how it is in the USA As, but here, if you want to live off the grid, completely, you will run into problems.


The term "live off the grid" here would imply no physical contact with other people, and certainly no contact with law enforcements, so it would not be considered a crime to do so here in the US.

It isn't very likely to happen with the population we have and the vastly limited land we have to hide on. You would have to go to a mountain top in colorado somewhere and then you'd still be found by those nature loving idiots who like to hike and climb shit all the time.

To pull off a "john doe" identity and literally dissapear is not so easy to do as a lamen. You would have to find someone thats connected and give them some money to fall off the grid. Unless you have the U.S. Marshals hiding you in the whitness protection program, then you can easily change your identity.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

Top
#58796 - 09/03/11 05:21 AM Re: Tribalism and the Question of Contemporary Society [Re: when7iseleven]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Stoning women? Please leave your irritability and sensitiveness towards pain at the door; pity is an infection.

Stoning women is not an Indo-European cultural trend is it now? Instead I hear murmuring tones of that misogyny and sickly effeminacy, the crippled masculinity of a filthy and despicable caste.

Is “personal honour” the same as a need for some kind of abstract “honour”?

A man who is a Master by nature is noble in that he has reverence for himself. Take this as you will but know that the nobler kind confers honour to what he sees in himself. Not a political regime for everyone, but the realisation of individual potential.

The will to power is stronger than the will to merely survive.




Edited by Hegesias (09/03/11 06:20 AM)
_________________________


Top
Page 2 of 3 <123>


Moderator:  TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.19 seconds of which 0.159 seconds were spent on 29 queries. Zlib compression disabled.