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#64327 - 02/05/12 07:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Ignoring the rest of his nonsense, I'd like to remark that if the Devil put dope on Earth, he didn't do it for the users. It's the dealers that are his favorite children.

What most users don't understand is that they are to the dealers what a pig is to the farmer. But instead of the meat, the content of their wallet counts. The dealers don't care if users ruin or even kill themselves. All which matters is that it ain't happening before they run out of cash. Of course the users get their pleasure but the pig also enjoys his meal. Still, that doesn't make it more than a resource.

It's amazing to observe, nothing in that trade happens without a reason. Every time someone gets a discount, or one on the house, there's reasoning behind it. They like you as a person, are a friend, your shoulder to cry upon, your buddy to share your sad stories with. As long as you share your money with them. If you want to find out what they truly are, buy some dope on credit and then keep stalling the payment.

No, if the Devil had his hand in dope, it surely wasn't for the users.

D.

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#64328 - 02/05/12 10:14 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
'To the despisers of the body I speak my word. I wish them neither to learn afresh, nor teach anew, but only to bid farewell to their own bodies, - and thus become dumb.'

'I go not your way, ye despisers of the body! Ye are no bridges for me to the Overman!' - Thus spake Zarathustra.

The will to power is stronger than the will to survive, and we choose not to debilitate our body, mind, through substances as substances debilitate social dominance orientation.

In comparison to the subjective affects of manufactured drugs, dominance awareness states derived from real life dominance, - a rush of natural pleasure chemicals, and truly life affirming ecstasy.

Lacking the temperament and intelligences for an accurate appraisal of himself, - his anxiety relieving hallucination, he is under constant threat of devaluation, - that he can never be certain of when surveillanced by peers, and over time, eventually, he obeys anyway, policing his own behaviour: the normalisation of drinking, drugs, squalor and dishonour of the mundane: becoming to the lowest common denominator. Such is not only ignoble, but anti-evolutionary [for them], and so, not so ironically, in this we see what is simply part of a natural culling process.
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#64342 - 02/06/12 02:44 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Hegesias]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 921
Loc: Nashville
I see that you quoted Zarathustra in the first part of your post. Was the rest of it your words? In any event, the “substances debilitate social dominance orientation” part isn’t always true. Just go to a biker bar and try to socially dominate the biggest, baddest drunk in the place. Well, you’d probably have better luck with him than I would. You’re a tough guy. But me? Sober or not, I’d most likely end up his bitch.

The “we” in “we choose not to debilitate our body, mind, through substances” sounds a bit preachy. I happen to enjoy a few beers once in a while. I don’t see a problem with it, as long as I don’t allow drinking to dominate my life. Your stance against drugs and alcohol seems quite militant. This approach might work for you. It certainly doesn’t work for most of us.

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#64347 - 02/06/12 07:41 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
RobertDonohue Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 19
Loc: NY USA
Thank you William right for being at least one person to be open minded enough to understand where someone is coming from when they speak. there seems to be some bigoted persons here who need a little ritual in their life to loosen up and get in touch with ALL the energies that can be experienced from this realm.

If drugs isn't your thing thats one thing. Having a closed mind is a lot deadlier... to the ego.

This is my opinion and my beliefs.

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#64348 - 02/06/12 07:57 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
seekswisdom Offline
member


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 104
Loc: California,U.S.
Marijuana helps me medically and I only use it for that purpose,but now that im back in school, I have less and less of a desire to be high.Im thankfull I still have a great memory while high, but I know im not 100 percent and it's now bothering me.So I will seek out other alternatives,because I can't think as clearly stoned and want to learn as much as I can until I die,and pot is slowing me down.
I personally dont care what people take, as long as they are still in control of their actions. If you get to a point where you're chasing chickens in your B-day suit, then maybe you have a problem? but as long as you can take care of your bussiness and not cause shit, then feel free.

I would even go as far as saying, having a close mind is the root of all evil and always, most of the time, will lead to slavery.So yes, please keep an open mind for "mans sake".


Edited by seekswisdom (02/06/12 08:22 PM)
Edit Reason: more to say.

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#64353 - 02/06/12 10:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
Thank you William right for being at least one person to be open minded enough to understand where someone is coming from when they speak. there seems to be some bigoted persons here who need a little ritual in their life to loosen up and get in touch with ALL the energies that can be experienced from this realm.

If drugs isn't your thing thats one thing. Having a closed mind is a lot deadlier... to the ego.

This is my opinion and my beliefs.


Just because people call out your flagrant bullshit for what it is does not mean that anyone is a bigot or closed-minded. Despite what you may have heard, not all opinions and beliefs are as valid as others and none are entitled to be free of ridicule.
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No gods. No masters.

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#64357 - 02/07/12 07:35 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
A lot of people equal open-minded with anything goes.

I could state that flowers are not the simple biological forms we take them for but in reality inter-stellar cell-phones which enable anyone discovering the correct use to contact other intelligent life-forms throughout the multi-verse.

I could consider anyone claiming that idea to be retarded, as being close-minded, or a bigot, but really, they'd be quite right. Being open-minded does not imply entertaining any wild hypothesis as possible, just as dismissing any retarded proposition does not imply being close-minded.

What we see more often than not is people taking the easy route, abandoning all serious thinking and embracing every idea that feels good to them. And when criticized, call others close-minded.

It allows them to be very comfortable with their own dumbness.

After all, they are the ones being open-minded.

D.

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#64379 - 02/08/12 10:33 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 921
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
I myself partake in the use of THC and oppiates to release myself from the physical realm and traverse the astral plane. Other psychedelics will be used when I try to find more specific answers to issues in ritual. It is my belief that Lucifer or another daemon put these plants here and gave us the knowledge to unlock their potential for a reason. And if anyone has a problem with psychoactives being a "shortcut" or ''cheat'' they can feck off because I will not deny MY ego from the instant gratification it deserves.

Of course, drug use for ritualistic purposes is nothing new. Some Native American tribes (peyote) and Rastafarians (cannabis) use drugs during rituals, for instance. I strongly suspect that drugs’ religious value exists only in the sense that the people using them perceive them in this way. This, however, is my opinion regarding any “spiritual agent”: The Bible is a religious guide to Christians who “buy into it". To me, it is simply an interesting (and deeply flawed) book.

My advice to you regarding the ritualistic use of drugs would be the same as to a Christian’s ritualistic use of the Bible: Do what works for you. If you think it enhances your life in some way, go for it. Others may not agree with you, but so what? We weren’t put on this earth to agree. We were put here to find our own way in life. You don’t need our approval.

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#64495 - 02/13/12 09:24 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
TwIzT Offline
member


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 127
 Quote:

This also makes no sense. If "it" is an escape from reality then how is "it" not about the trip or visuals? Secondly, LSD is a lot like many other hallucinogens; DMT, Psilocybin/Psilocin, Mescaline etc. Sure, each on has its own unique properties but essentially the only difference between these substances (aside from chemical makeup) are the intensity and duration of the effects.


Explanations make sense to everyone, now don't they. I suppose I could possibly expand a little. It seems most people when they experience something that is as unusual as pychedellic they tend to focus on it, almost as if they have tunnel-vision tuned in only to the distorted reality that they are living. If they look past all the frills and begin to explore they're mind they open up a new level to the trip. Once that is done you completley disconnect yourselve from everything around you. And like I said your reality ceases to exist. One could say, or might describe it as an out of body experience without quite saying so much.

Do you speak from experience or from what you have read or heard. I assure you, the chemical properties are different and the visuals are different. Excluding LSD-LSA and Peyote-Mescaline. DMT is a whole different experience on it's own very intense and very short. I'm saying out of all of them LSD, DMT, 2CE, 2CB, pure mescaline, synthesised mescaline, peyote, and salvia. My prefered pychedellic is LSD, because if you look past the reflection in the mirror, you can dwelve into a new reality once you step through it. All the while looking behind you at the reversed mirror, and seeing your old reality. If you explore the effects to the mind more than the effects on the body you can experience it to its full extent.


Edited by TwIzT (02/13/12 09:29 AM)
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#64513 - 02/15/12 10:23 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Sure hallucinogenic drugs affect the brain, often to such a degree it reconfigures the input/output compilation for a while. But what do you learn from it besides the realization reality is simply what your brain tells it to be?

It's not as if you tap into unknown resources or travel through unexplored territory. Sure you might have strange experiences but nothing which appears wasn't available in the brain already. All that it causes is a distorted compilation.

At best it either is a short vacation from the reality one is used to, or as inspirational as reading a book, listening to music or watching a movie. At worst, it's escapism.

D.

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#64527 - 02/16/12 05:55 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Orlando, Florida
This post is for D, for I have already been told you are going to have fun tearing into me \:\) Ha, bring it

According to your original post you seem to think that all drugs were put on the earth to make money, in some way or another. I would have to dis-agree with that statement. Have you forgotten the spiritual properties associated with natural occurring herbs and fungus? It's true for most, that these drugs have become a way for most people to escape reality, if not only momentary. But for centuries before hand they had no monetary value. They were deemed as ways to open your mind and take you on a journey of spiritual enlightenment/recognition. They were used by shamans and still are in various tribes, free of charge. Why else would they be so illegal if not to suppress the greater realization of society(besides overdoes concerns)? Why would they promote beer, on every other billboard, which does the opposite and actually dulls your senses when taken in large amounts?
Unlike past generations long ago, we have so quickly forgotten of the important things in life. Especially with american society, with all the distractions that are put to stop the interaction with nature. Too often I find that most people are too busy with their bullshit to stop and even look up at the stars and gander at fascinating and impressive surroundings. If I use a hallucinogen, I have a purpose(most the time)and place. I like to be outside away from large groups of people to get full effect. I have a goal in mind. A question or personal dilemma that may boggle my mind perhaps. While my brain seems to operate in different ways I am still lucid. When my conscious is operating on overdrive, I tend to drift into deep thought, and start to look at things in a different light, in a different shape, and different value. Making wild hypotheses and scenarios that no movie or book have yet to produce for me yet. Not always being desirable thoughts (loss of relationships, deaths, drama) they are always inspiring and delve deep into my emotions on a level I never thought I had.

I have a friend with a dad in the coast guard. His dad has the sweetest job traveling the world setting up artillery ranges. He is definitely the most well rounded and cultured person I know. With my friend being his only son, he was curious on the effect of mushrooms that his son had been taking and what type of awakening he could have. Determined to do this correctly and with the least variables to the product, he decided to grow his own. So he bought some spores from a reliable source and commenced to fruit the fungus in a terrarium. For days we watched the fungus grow and kept a sharp eye on it. While he waited for it to grow he commenced rising a full size teepee that stands 30 feet tall. For this he cut down many trees and skinned them to make the structure. The only thing store bought was the enormous canvas that covered the outside of it. Once the shrooms bloomed, he waited a few days for them to dry out. He gave me a few but told me this was a journey he was doing by himself. And he did, out on his farm, inside a teepee, fire burning in the middle, and probably naked. He definitely came out a different man in some aspects, or at least he believes so. And that is what matters, he had an experience he could not have had by using books or music. He found parts of himself that only he could explain to himself, no one else. With proper technique it can change you, that's what I'm trying to say. You can release the unknown in yourself. So where has our culture gone wrong with the real usage of drugs? Most are no play things or just black market bullshit, they did have a meaning past that. We just need to recognize...
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I love myself, better than you. I know it's wrong, what should I do?

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#64540 - 02/16/12 12:10 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't think drugs are put on Earth to make money. As a matter of fact, I don't even think drugs are put on Earth.

What I have an issue with is the glorified status of drugs which people use to glorify themselves as a drug user. And yes, the spiritual properties are also something I classify as self-glorifying nonsense.

Sure somewhen in a time period long long ago humans accidentally discovered that when chewing certain substances, or plants, they entered the realm of spirits, or the gods started to talk to them. And a new class arose who, more than others, understood what exactly was said by either spirits or gods. In today’s terms this is called spotting a job vacancy.

I'm not going to bother about their reasons since they evidently lived in a strange unexplained world but nowadays, this spiritual quest is, in the majority of cases, bullshit. People do drugs because they want to do drugs.

Like I said; I do not care at all, I'm pro drugs. But puh-lease spare me the spiritual, liberating, creative, mind-releasing, paradigm-shifting excuses. People just want to get high. Just like the majority of people don't drink alcohol for the exquisite taste or calming properties. They just want to get drunk and have a good time.

And that's what it is about; joy or escapism. Just like some weed smokers use it for medical reasons but the majority just want to get stoned. That's what humans use drugs for but apparently somehow this, to them, does not feel good enough a reason so they take their little paint-brush and apply it to loads of reasons, being displayed to us in all kinds of pretty colors; spiritual questing, creative explorations, paradigm-shifting...

But really, let's be honest here; it's just the high that counts.

D.

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#64542 - 02/16/12 12:49 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Orlando, Florida
I like your view point and do agree with most of what you are saying. It's a realistic approach to what drugs are to society today. It is about the high. Even I find myself wanting to indulge for the sole purpose of that, just getting high. It gives me my shits and giggles, literally. I will spare you with the spiritual BS but I was only trying to make a point. There can be some spiritual ties if you wish. Not always will this union always bring joy. I personally believe that alcohol is one of the things that really is part of the core to the pussification of the human kind when used in heavy amounts frequently. It clouds judgement, and I have been a victim of my own demise. More so, all drugs can be used to actually lose touch with reality, not just escape, and things can be passed easily by people. Most of the time without real knowledge of it, until it is too late. I think we see this a whole lot today.
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I love myself, better than you. I know it's wrong, what should I do?

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#64545 - 02/16/12 03:13 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm not necessarily calling bullshit on you finding some spiritual benefit in drugs. I'm convinced people do find that in drugs as others find it in meditation, sleep deprivation or even through art.

But those that drop acid five times a week, or smoke weed each day can't expect to be taken serious when using these sort of justifications.

D.

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#64546 - 02/16/12 03:27 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Orlando, Florida
I appreciate the understanding. I neither drop acid regularly or smoke pot daily. I think I see your point though. It's really about the frame of mind you have when working with such mediums. I am curious though. Do you, or have you experimented with such psychoactive drugs? And if so what was your intent?
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