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#58886 - 09/06/11 08:05 AM What kind of drugs?
Set Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
I figured that this didn't factor into the the sticky on the second page, because I'm not interested in any trippy stories (maybe later?). I was moreover wondering what some other Satanist's opinions were on what kind of drugs are acceptable, and what aren't.
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#58890 - 09/06/11 09:04 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Despise, poison your own body as much as you like mate. It's your life. Do what you like and take the responsibility on your own shoulders. I would think that a pickled liver and blackened lungs is not really exemplary of strength would you? Unless you are masochistic and regard your own destruction as an achievement and way to have power over your life?

Kind of like those people with eating disorders. It's the same thing.
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#58891 - 09/06/11 09:05 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
This is really dumb. Illegal drugs are illegal. No one is going to tell you that they use them in a public forum unless they are an idiot.

Any substance that can fuck with your mind or alter your perception can be/act like a drug. Lack of sleep, pulsing lights, music, smoke, extremes of temperature, emotional reactions to physical stimulations, and alcohol.

M
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#58893 - 09/06/11 09:47 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Set
I figured that this didn't factor into the the sticky on the second page, because I'm not interested in any trippy stories (maybe later?). I was moreover wondering what some other Satanist's opinions were on what kind of drugs are acceptable, and what aren't.


Well, lets see here, I prefer Tylenol and Airborne. I have this recurring problem with my back and lately me left heel that has been bothering me so I take Tylenol for the pain. As the seasons change I notice others are starting to sneeze and cough around me so I have been drinking some Airborne in a bottle of water to build my immune system even more. I use the berry cherry flavored ones, they taste the best.

I don't drink, don't do drugs, and don't smoke. I'll have a beer with dinner every now and then, but that's not drinking. Guess I'm boring to most rebel teenagers? I just hit 40 in June and my last B.P. was 128/80... good numbers.

If you think doing drugs is either cool or the way to be more SATANIC you're dead wrong. And the drugs will kill you. Being illegal is irrelevant, who gives a fuck, they can and will eventually kill you.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#58901 - 09/06/11 11:28 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think all drugs are acceptable. I see no reason to consider any of them as bad or wrong.

Let the bodies hit the floor.

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#58902 - 09/06/11 11:33 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Wicked Satanist]
RobertDonohue Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 19
Loc: NY USA
In my opinion drugs or drug use should not even be a factor in what makes a true satanist.

There are drugs out there like research chemicals, which are analogs of other drugs, that are engineered for nothing but recreation. they serve little to no medical purpose.

As long as its rrecreation it shouldn't be discriminated against. In the same respect a satanist should have the will power and awareness to stop him/herself from falling into drug abuse.

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#58910 - 09/06/11 01:07 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I think all drugs are acceptable. I see no reason to consider any of them as bad or wrong.

Let the bodies hit the floor.


Indeed.

I think OP was just looking for people to condone his own use.

I prefer Mudvayne over Drowing Pool though. ;\)

Speaking of drugs and Drowning Pool, his body hit the floor. And only a week or so before they were supposed to play Rockfest here in town. But I digress.
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#58916 - 09/06/11 08:23 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Set Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
I wasn't looking for someone to condone my own use. If thats what I was looking for, I would probably be posting on a marijuana-themed website. My intent was to see what other satanists considered fair game when it comes to drugs, just out of curiosity. Personally, I think that alcohol, weed, and shrooms are where the line should be drawn, but hey, that's just my opinion.

Also, old Mudvayne is better than new Mudvayne.
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Reality blows, but c'est la vie.

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#58918 - 09/06/11 10:00 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Fair enough.

As far as I am concerned, they are all "fair game". What a person wants to put in their body is their business. As a personal preference I tend to shy away from the "hard" drugs e.g. Heroin, meth, cocaine et al. I used to live in LV in the area of Boulder Highway and Tropicana and I was bombarded with sales pitches for that crap on a daily basis.

I enjoy a few hits off the bong here and there and acid or shrooms when I feel up for it but I don't let any of that interfere with my schooling or other responsibilities. It is the people who abuse drugs that make the people who use them look bad.

And I agree, old Mudvayne is better.
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No gods. No masters.

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#58920 - 09/06/11 10:16 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I am quite open to some alcohol and the milder psychoactives, but cigarettes and anything harder I would never dream of using.

Although, I am a hopelessly-addicted ibuprofen fiend.


Edited by The Zebu (09/06/11 10:17 PM)
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#58950 - 09/07/11 07:12 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Satan is le puss]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: Satan is le puss
JESUS LOVES ALL OF YOU, JUST ASK FOR FORGIVENESS


Ah, religion, the best drug of all :-)

Fortunately, I am Him, and I have heard your prayer. I will take full control from this moment on, for three easy payments of $29.99, plus processing and handling. And now, for a limited time only, I'm pleased to offer mercy free for your family, just pay an extra processing fee ...
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An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#58955 - 09/07/11 07:58 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Autodidact]
Oxus Offline
member


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 513
 Originally Posted By: Autodidact
 Originally Posted By: Satan is le puss
JESUS LOVES ALL OF YOU, JUST ASK FOR FORGIVENESS


Ah, religion, the best drug of all :-)

Fortunately, I am Him, and I have heard your prayer. I will take full control from this moment on, for three easy payments of $29.99, plus processing and handling. And now, for a limited time only, I'm pleased to offer mercy free for your family, just pay an extra processing fee ...
Look man . . . if there's no flagellation then I want a discount!

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#58957 - 09/08/11 02:52 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Autodidact]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Satan is le puss
JESUS LOVES ALL OF YOU, JUST ASK FOR FORGIVENESS


I smell a Banned troll... but...

This reminds me of a friend of mine I used to have lunch with back in college... She was perfect in almost every way except a mole on her chin and of corpse, she was christian. We would have some good discussions about their beliefs and some of the time I would just piss her off and she would leave.

There was this one question I had asked her and it took her a couple weeks to return my calls... I said... Isn't your religion wonderful with their "forgiveness clause"? She looked puzzled for a moment and I went on to explain... You go to church two times a week. You have been baptised and have accepted jesus into your life as your lord and savior... so, when you die, you will be going to heaven. She smiled and nodded at her beliefs and said "yes, that is correct" I said ok,

I could go out and perform some of the most heinous acts known to man and kill as many people as I could, commit all of the 7 deadly sins daily for my entire life... And just before they stick the needle in my arm or flip the switch on the elctric chair, according to your belief system, if I accepted jesus into my life and asked for forgiveness I would be standing right next to you in heaven... she was pissed!

What kind of fucked up shit is that? Your church bleeds you dry with their begging for your money and time and all of this bible study and selfless dedication... when you don't have to live that way, or believe in it all your life and the end result is still the same. That's something else isn't it...
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#58986 - 09/08/11 10:06 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Set Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
It's not as bad over here in North Las Vegas, but I get what you mean. Is the "It is the people who abuse drugs that make the people who use them look bad." a quote from The Long Hard Road Out of Hell? It sounds familiar.
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#58988 - 09/08/11 10:37 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Yes, that is where the quote is from. I see you have one of his water colors as your avatar. I didn't spend much time in N. LV but from what I heard there was a lot of crackheads there too. Then again, all of Las Vegas was pretty seedy.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#58994 - 09/09/11 01:57 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Set Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 8
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
NLV is alot better than some of the other areas, like say, MLK boulevard. Anyways, big Mansson fan here. Did you hear about the new album? It's called Born Villian, and releases around Fall (I think). Manson and Shia Lebeouf did a pretty tight promo for it here
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#59023 - 09/10/11 09:22 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
Ses Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/08/11
Posts: 15
Loc: Bucks, England
Personally after being on drugs got 7 years I finally came clean after an episode.

What people do is up to them, however all drugs will damage the body and mind which can then put a burden on over people which would then contradict 11 rules of the earth but then, however indulging yourself being one of the Nine Satanic Sins

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#59026 - 09/10/11 12:25 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Ses]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
however all drugs will damage the body and mind


This is a lie. While it is true that some drugs will damage the mind and body (most of these being of the legal variety) not all of them will. LSD, for example, has not been found to be damaging to the mind or body in anyway or have any long lasting effects on the body.
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No gods. No masters.

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#59029 - 09/10/11 12:45 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Ses Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/08/11
Posts: 15
Loc: Bucks, England
I shall edit it to the majority of drugs, even prescription drugs will do some damage to the body though.
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#59030 - 09/10/11 12:58 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
That depends 6. I knew a guy who had LSD slipped in his drink, ended in the loony bin for months and never completely recovered.

Some family of mine died after a coke-speed night, young kid not even 20 but his heart just couldn't take it.

So while on average most drugs don't really kill or damage, a specific physical set-up might open you up for all kinds of hazards.

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#59031 - 09/10/11 01:06 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
So while on average most drugs don't really kill or damage, a specific physical set-up might open you up for all kinds of hazards.


Oh I'm not debating that. There's just a lot of falsified information concerning certain drugs and their effects on the body and mind.
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No gods. No masters.

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#59032 - 09/10/11 01:56 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Oh but of course. Since drugs are forbidden, it does not benefit them to paint a neutral picture and thus they focus on the worst case scenarios and give the impression these are the normal one.
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#59053 - 09/12/11 03:01 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
And lets remember that even if the drug itself doesnt cause long time harm on the body the mental states it creates can cause people to do alot of harm to themselves or others.

I do not use any of the illegal drugs personally and I rarely drink either. And if I do, more often than not, its just a beer or two to dinner and not to get drunk. Heck, I dont even drink coffee - but thats because I dislike the taste.

I have been around people who claims they can deal with their use and they still think they do. Standing on the outside its clear that they are not in control anymore however and that they are controlled by the drugs. My solution - not to get on drugs at all. I dont want the to cloud my mind. I dont want to turn out like some of my friends and I have realized that however strong you think you are its quite easy to fool yourself with the help of substances that alter your perception of reality.

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#59061 - 09/12/11 08:49 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Hegesias]
Gattamelata Offline
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Registered: 03/23/10
Posts: 45
In my mid-twenties, I got addicted to heroin on purpose, as a sort of experiment to see what it was like. The intoxication never gave me much. Heroin is a cushion, a soft sheet wrapping you up, a soothing prison of fluff. I can see why some people find that attractive - but it is a condition of mind without any real challenge: a stagnated pool of soft & slimy well-being.

The worst part was the pure physical addiction. A biological craving that unless it was satisfied knifed itself thru any emotion, any thought, any attempt to fend it off. It tended to reduce all experience into the neurotic urge to feed the opiate hunger within. An interesting observation was how this urge, as it intensified, hijacked all my creative thought processing and before I knew it used all available mental energy to scheme out how I could get the next fix. The junkie mind deprived of its food soon becomes adept at all sorts of cunning. The writings of William Burroughs come to mind, how he used heroin addiction as an analogy to describe many social and societal functions that thrives on parasitic feeding, short-sighted attainment with dysfunctional long-term results, self-learned dependency and mental slavery by filling the mind with all sort of useless junk to quench the neurotic thirst within.

Now, it is not really that hard to erase a physical heroin dependency unless one is also psychologically addicted. And I assume one have to have a personality that is deeply rooted in escapism and denial if one is instantly seduced by this drug. I can see no real uses for it, besides as a painkiller and perhaps useful if you were some slave grinding away eighteen hours a day in some coalmine in China.
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Society : an inferno of saviors. —Emil Cioran

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#59064 - 09/12/11 11:42 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TheInsane]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
And lets remember that even if the drug itself doesnt cause long time harm on the body the mental states it creates can cause people to do alot of harm to themselves or others.


And the person is still to blame, not the substance. If a person gets drunk and wrecks their car, it is not the fault of the booze but the person. If someone gets all coked up and cuts their lover's head off with a circular saw, it is the fault of the person.

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. Abdication of responsibility by blaming an inanimate object is exactly that.
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No gods. No masters.

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#59065 - 09/12/11 12:49 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Quote:
And lets remember that even if the drug itself doesnt cause long time harm on the body the mental states it creates can cause people to do alot of harm to themselves or others.


And the person is still to blame, not the substance. If a person gets drunk and wrecks their car, it is not the fault of the booze but the person. If someone gets all coked up and cuts their lover's head off with a circular saw, it is the fault of the person.

People are ultimately responsible for their own actions. Abdication of responsibility by blaming an inanimate object is exactly that.


Yes and no.

In a society we cant, or should not, take exception because someone was high while doing something thats illegal and destructive. We cant however look beyond the drug itself since that can create the point that triggers the actions of the addict/user.

In relation to the law I think the person is to blame but its important to note that, in our hypothetical example, the drug is the reason why the person has crossed a certain line which he or she would never cross without being intoxicated. But, in most cases, it is the users choice to use the drug and is therefore also responsible for his or her actions while high on said drug.

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#59066 - 09/12/11 03:21 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TheInsane]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Just my opinion. I educate young people on health and fitness.

I very much appreciate the way people are presenting the facts.

I know I am opinionated and domineering and just very annoying to most people in life, but I don't mean to be, I just have a strong moral and protective mindset but when it comes to drugs and alcohol but I truly know that substances ruin the lives of young people

Debasing their hopes, values and personal identity, which all becomes based on fitting in with manipulative losers that are usually much older.

Vulnerable people with low self esteem in their late teens are often introduced to substances. This new found high gives them confidence in social situations that they never had – reduces anxiety at the expense of their dignity.

Being young and prone to influence and peer pressures it is a downward spiral into utilitarian thrill seeking abounds fantastic mediocrity that just gets more and more self degrading and also justified.

The young person will idealise this utility lifestyle along with adaptive preference formation, a new-found exhilarating life, amazing, which they feel, the foolish adults who try to intervene [with severe concern] cannot understand.

I have seen this many times. The family of the young person gets cut off from communication and viciously blamed for trying to help. The young person just becomes unreachable because their “friends” are so much more real and stimulating.

Often young people who get into drugs and alcohol experience sex for the first time and associate everything together and cannot see what the bland and angry adults are telling them because to the young person using substances, adults know sweet fuck all and are seen as jokes.

I just hate drug culture with a passion because I can see strait through peoples social psychology – older men get girls onto substances to exploit their low self esteem. Makes me justify judgement to the whole thing because I'm just protective of women and hate manipulative low life's who jump in on young ladies, ruining their lives with the solemn eyes of a friend. Hard working, confident and masculine males can offer much more but they are never regarded as attainable.

Things like this when young can forever damage peoples self esteem and worldview when it comes to intimacy and confidence, they will always be in abusive relationships knowing no different. Fucking tragic. I hate this shit.





Edited by Hegesias (09/12/11 03:21 PM)
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#60451 - 10/26/11 03:27 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Morgan]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
I used to smoke weed but it's expensive here in NY. Someday I'm going to move to colorado and get one of those registration cards so I can grow my own. Now I just drink a lot of kentucky bourbon; it's legal, cheaper and my buzz lasts longer.

Seriously anyone that thinks weed is bad hasn't drunk any decent alcohol. I can't imagine any weed haters still exist but I'm sure they do exist outside of my imagination. That's good, I guess. Defecating my imagination to make room for drugs and sex, woop woop.

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#61302 - 11/11/11 11:21 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
PrinceOfBabalon Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 49
Loc: London
Take what you want but take responsibility for it.

That also goes for mind altering drugs such as tobacco, alcohol, chocolate and coffee.

Unlike many, I don't condemn illegal drug use out right. Unlike many, I have never taken an illegal drug in my life.

The taboo that surrounds drug use is a very modern thing and given the high chance of addiction to most such substances, that taboo is probably no bad thing provided that people know the reason why it is there. Addiction is exceptionally destructive to your Self and I truly question the mental strength of somebody who wants to use drugs as a method of escaping reality (which, in the vast, vast majority of cases is the reason why they are used).

Otherwise, if they are being used by an individual with a very strong mind who is in control and who wants to experience, then I reserve judgment. Not that I would condone it as being a good thing but nor would I condemn it out of a knee-jerk, personal distaste.

My brief thoughts this afternoon.
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#61337 - 11/12/11 08:41 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
I agree with you Robert, drugs dont make a true Satanist. I am actually living proof that drugs can BREAK a true Satanist. I've had plenty of good times on plenty of drugs, but the bad experiences I cannot ignore.
Lets all remind ourselves that there is a fine line and a big difference between USE and ABUSE! Educate yourselves and dont give into random horseshit hoopla and hysteria. There is plenty of information online about drugs, both legal and illegal.
I cant help but wonder if any of you have ever read the book Cocaine by Aleister Crowley? He went through the illegalization of cocaine in the United States and wrote a book to defend its legitimate usage. Malt and soda shops before cocaine was a illegal offered injections for 50 cents. The good ol days? I would call it that, people then understood what cocaine could be USED for but many bad apples spoiled the bunch with ABUSE that called for the drug to be banned.
I look at nations where drug use is legal and I cant help but wonder why all nations dont follow in suit for the very reason that abuse is way lower and crime stemming from drugs hardly exists in nations where you can legally purchase and use drugs. Not that it doesnt exist at all, but when the blanket of conviction is lifted a calm approach to drugs (WHICH IS NECESSARY TO ENJOY DRUGS ANYHOW) is taken and compulsive behavior doesnt happen as spontaneously.
Anyone who uses drugs habitually should cycle and take breaks to allow your mind, body and spirit to heal. Yes drugs do damage when done beyond moderation and routinely, so dont mislead yourself into a black hole of self hatred and paranoia.
I noticed a statement in a post above about research chemicals- I just so happen to enjoy the 2c family, I love entheogens.
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"I’m just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61377 - 11/13/11 11:05 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA

.....even lemurs get high. Lemurs get high on millipedes...by gently biting their heads until the millipede secretes a narcotic poison used to kill insects, the lemur rubs the poison all over his body and gets high from the effect of the poison.
Poisons/drugs can be beneficial or enjoyable. Of course drug use and drug abuse are two very different behaviors.
" Indulgence not compulsion"
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#61380 - 11/14/11 08:57 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RAIDER]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
I don't really have any negative feelings toward drugs as a whole.

What I can't stand are people who choose to use them and then become a burden on other people because they lack self control.

Do your drugs, if you will (and hopefully what D mentions above will befall you), but take responsibility for it as the results of your behavior are on you.
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#61425 - 11/16/11 01:54 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Fnord]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
I have always had the interrest to try acid and x. I have probably smoked my body weight in weed in my lifetime and even dabbed in coke a few times, but never really cared for it.

I have even asked a few friends I have to get me some acid and they just refuse to do so... I mean, wtf, I want to try it.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#61426 - 11/16/11 05:48 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If I can give you one good advice it's to avoid hallucinogens. But if you try that for the first time, make sure you are surrounded by friends you can trust and that remain sober. On average likely nothing bad will happen besides maybe a bad trip but this is not the sort of drug you remain under control when using.

There's a small risk they might fry your brain but then again, that risk is there with any drug.

X is overrated unless you wanna dance somewhere all night feeling quite lovely but having a dick that doesn't even respond to electro-treatment. Down here only the puppies between 16 and 20 do X because it is cheaper than getting drunk. If you do, drink enough, because that shit dehydrates you. Alcohol not being the preferred solution.

D.

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#61488 - 11/16/11 11:24 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
his is not the sort of drug you remain under control when using.


Actually, D, I've always maintained control while under hallucinogens; be it psilocybin/psilocin, DMT, LSD or mescaline. Granted, they are certainly not for everyone but that blanket statement is assuredly a false one.

 Quote:
There's a small risk they might fry your brain but then again, that risk is there with any drug.


Strictly concerning LSD, this is also a false statement.

LSD is physiologically well tolerated and there is no evidence for long-lasting effects on brain and other parts of the human organism

 Quote:
X is overrated unless you wanna dance somewhere all night feeling quite lovely but having a dick that doesn't even respond to electro-treatment. Down here only the puppies between 16 and 20 do X because it is cheaper than getting drunk. If you do, drink enough, because that shit dehydrates you. Alcohol not being the preferred solution.


This, however, is spot-on.
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No gods. No masters.

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#61489 - 11/16/11 11:34 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Well 6, you and the researchers will be surprised but it surely ain't a false statement since I used to hang out with the dude it happened to. He's still somewhat funny. Just like I've seen coke-users get buried.

I don't say it's purely the dope, it's the combination of someone's physical set-up and the dope.

If you got fucked by your genes, you'll get fucked by the dope.

D.

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#62981 - 12/26/11 11:38 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
JaggedJesus Offline
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Registered: 12/20/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Michigan, USA
Marijuana is the main drug I indulge in, mainly because it's the easiest one to get. Marijuana helps me creatively, mentally, and physically.

LSD made me think of things I'd never of normally thought of before. I had many epiphinies on this drug. Everything was clear, crisp. Everything made sense.

DXM is probably the most dangerous drug I've ever done. DXM is chugging cough syrup, incase you're not familiar. I saw many grusome and horrible hallucinations while on this drug. Would not recommend it.
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The best part of life is knowing you've made it.

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#62988 - 12/27/11 02:52 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
kvac Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 20
Loc: raleigh NC
I agree I dont use them myself but have other brothers who do in ritual. Posting ones use isnt a problem.
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halios

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#62995 - 12/27/11 04:03 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: kvac]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I have as much compassion for a dependent temperament as I have for germs or parasites, if not only for their ill virtue to communicate diseased character. And so the more Mundanes who wish to despise their body and mind by way of comforting poisons, the better, the more the better, that the Mundanes both distinguish themselves in a hubris way, and cull themselves in oblivious indignity, is marvellous, truly.
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#63577 - 01/12/12 04:17 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Hegesias]
seekswisdom Offline
member


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 104
Loc: California,U.S.
Marijuana is the only drug I use myself, because it's a medical miracal drug for my acidic stomach and I have too much energy without it. Living in California I have the privlidge to grow my own medicine and have learned more about nature from growing weed then I would of ever obtained from just reading about it. This year I will be more patient and start the plants in late may(I started April 14 last year) and will go 100% organic this time. I used overdrive to pump up the flowering last year, but it's not worth it in the end, because it's about quality not quantity:when it's just for medicine and not profit.
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#63584 - 01/12/12 02:38 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: seekswisdom]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
I to live in California and have a medicinal marijuana card. I got it for my ' insomnia '. I have never tried to grow plants though. Up until recently there was dispensaries all over San Diego . Although they are kinda pricey ,it was nice to be able to just walk into the store and pick out what you wanted. It is fucking ridiculous that weed is still considered a controlled substance.
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#63587 - 01/12/12 04:07 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Zach_Black]
Shea Offline
member


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 108
Loc: Chicago
Prohibition on anything never works but to create a thriving black market. In some measure, the people who profit from the war on drugs have a great excuse for keeping marijuana illegal; however, I've never understood why the average person is okay with every rung on the ladder of government taking money from them so as to throw their neighbor in a cage for ingesting a particular substance.

Like any "war" on something so vague (i.e. terror, poverty, etc.) it is literally never ending. People have been born, lived, and died of old age; all the while paying for this massive prohibition on drugs--senseless.

Unsurprising I suppose. If the gubament tells ya something's evil, and hires ad-men to convince you...well, it must be true.

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#63588 - 01/12/12 04:24 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
Merkwürdigliebe5 Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 60
I would be hard pressed to find a more eloquent summation concerning the foolishness of drug abuse than this,

“I consider drug abuse a polite alternative to suicide. Perhaps one day euthanasia will be be made attractive enough and the drug problem will be solved.”

-Anton LaVey
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"To a new world of gods and monsters!"

-Dr. Septimus Pretorius

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#63655 - 01/14/12 04:00 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Zach_Black]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
When you realize prisons are owned by private corporations in the US and these same corporations fund billions into the political arena. One can clearly see why the war on drugs is still in effect. Any change in law will hurt their profit and in turn lessen there contributions.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#63661 - 01/14/12 10:21 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
TV is God Moderator Offline
Moderator
member


Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 273
Loc: The Cornhole
Not to echo what everyone else has said too badly but what laws say about drugs is irrelevant. Drugs being illegal is the government insisting it owns your body.

But what bothers me personally is this notion that drug use is rebellious or anti-establishment. The people who are so farsighted they think the 'establishment' ends with the suits and the cops. The drug trade is part of the establishment, so are the clubs, the rock shows, the rappers, and every bit of social norms tell you to use drugs. Because drug use is, of course, the norm. At least it is in my age group and country, and all I hear hints that it's the same for most of the first world for the last several decades.

If rebellion is defiance of convention then drug use certainly isn't rebellious. Not smoking weed or getting shitfaced drunk is what makes you a black sheep. Society is the establishment. I'm sick and tired of this idea that you're defiant by doing exactly what society tells you to.

The popular desire is to be rebellious. Embracing the popular idea of rebellion is what's apt to make you most popular! REBEL YELL! LET'S ALL GET HIGH AND PUT ENGLISH FLAG STICKERS ON OUR GUITARS! REBELLIOOOOOOOOOON!!!!

Most people's aspirations are to sit still and feel good. I'd rather feel good from accomplishing something.



Best stated by Frank Zappa.
"When you take them it turns you into a type of person that I don't like to hang around with. Their personalities mutate. Their value systems change. And generally, this is not a hard and fast rule all over the world, but It is my observation that when americans consume drugs they are instantly transformed from regular, normal human beings into raging assholes. I just don't like to be around them."

"There's no question in my mind that if you follow the pyramid right up to the top that there's no difference between the people who are importing it and the people who are arresting you for using it."

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#63669 - 01/14/12 01:08 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TV is God]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
But what bothers me personally is this notion that drug use is rebellious or anti-establishment. The people who are so farsighted they think the 'establishment' ends with the suits and the cops. The drug trade is part of the establishment, so are the clubs, the rock shows, the rappers, and every bit of social norms tell you to use drugs. Because drug use is, of course, the norm. At least it is in my age group and country, and all I hear hints that it's the same for most of the first world for the last several decades.


I'm going to have to agree with you on this one. Though the fact that I smoke weed occasionally makes me rebellious in the sense that I am willfully disobeying a law, I don't do it to be rebellious. I do it because I like it, because it makes me feel good. I am under no illusions about any of that and I wish more people would be more honest about it. Sure, I could claim any number of "legitimate" medical reasons for smoking weed but I see no reason to lie about it.
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#63670 - 01/14/12 01:12 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: ta2zz]
seekswisdom Offline
member


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 104
Loc: California,U.S.
When I was a Junior in High School We had a choice on trying to change a law. Wrote my Govtment final about the war on drugs because nothing is more obvious that the system does'nt work. The fact that man can judge others for the same shit that they do themselves is the most hypocritical fasade in history. Not only do they own your body because you have to take a drug test,background check, finger prints and have a license just to do the most basic jobs today. You cant even send you kids to school without making them take their vaccines and I had to get the vaccines again to take a EMT class, because the system lost my records.
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#63838 - 01/18/12 12:44 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: seekswisdom]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I used to smoke weed somewhat regularly when I lived in San Diego and could get it easily. I haven’t even tried to buy any since moving to Tennessee four years ago. For one, I look too much like a cop. Dealers probably wouldn’t want anything to do with me, and if they did, they’d probably just try to rip me off. Besides, marijuana laws here are considerably stricter than in California. Things are going pretty well for me, and I have too much to lose for a cheap high.

I used to be rather idealistic with regard to marijuana. I considered myself a serious writer and used weed to help me find my inspiration and motivation. After several years of getting nowhere, though, I concluded that for me, smoking weed was pointless unless I simply wanted the good feeling that the drug provided. I decided that it made more sense to pursue more realistic goals than selling the great American screenplay, and so far this decision seems to have paid off.

These days I stick to alcohol, a glass of vodka or red wine or a couple beers at home on my evenings off. I get a mild, enjoyable buzz with no hassles or legal risks. Others can take whatever drugs they want as long as they don’t create problems for me or those I care about. As for me, I’m reasonably content with my current situation and see no compelling reason to change it.
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#64264 - 02/02/12 01:49 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
TwIzT Offline
member


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 127
Lysergic acid diethylamide or amide is exceptable and no one seemed to name it so I will. It comes from a simple organic product, and certain chemicals that are already contained within it are extracted. Where it may or may not cross the line is when amide becomes diethylamide which is a process that basically germinates the extract. So to some small extent LSA could be compared to a energy drink, and LSD to alcohol. Also there are no reported cases of there ever being a overdose. I believe a trip of LSA or LSD allows you to take a break from reality which is a rarity seeing as your living it 24/7. It allows you to look on your life without looking on it while your living it, which is very helpful in seeing your flaws or if you might be stuck in a rut. Although when reality comes back will it change? Mainly though it's not about the trip or visuals, it's an escape from reality like I said and unlike any other drug ever made. My suggestion everyone try it at least once. It will change your outlook on life.

And I don't see how people get high on weed, it's a weed, a common plant. It's not crack.


Edited by TwIzT (02/02/12 02:02 AM)
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We are all the lab mice bred for one purpose to run the wheel to power america. Cheeze controls us.

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#64301 - 02/04/12 02:59 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
It allows you to look on your life without looking on it while your living it, which is very helpful in seeing your flaws or if you might be stuck in a rut.


That makes absolutely no sense.

 Quote:
Mainly though it's not about the trip or visuals, it's an escape from reality like I said and unlike any other drug ever made.


This also makes no sense. If "it" is an escape from reality then how is "it" not about the trip or visuals? Secondly, LSD is a lot like many other hallucinogens; DMT, Psilocybin/Psilocin, Mescaline etc. Sure, each on has its own unique properties but essentially the only difference between these substances (aside from chemical makeup) are the intensity and duration of the effects.

 Quote:
And I don't see how people get high on weed, it's a weed, a common plant. It's not crack.


THC. Dumbass.
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#64302 - 02/04/12 03:13 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
TwIzT Offline
member


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 127
Opinions are like buttholes and yours is absurdly large and silly. I'm not even getting into that it's a waste of my life. Read my words and look for a meaning or just look at the letters, I care not. You people and your obsession with the high of the drug, not even exploring the drug itself. I'm talking in generality, unless someone wants to think not.

Edited by TwIzT (02/04/12 03:38 AM)
_________________________
We are all the lab mice bred for one purpose to run the wheel to power america. Cheeze controls us.

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#64303 - 02/04/12 04:29 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I could look for meaning but there is none to be found. I'm sure you think that your post had meaning but it was mostly nonsensical bullshit. And so is the very post I am responding to now.
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No gods. No masters.

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#64304 - 02/04/12 05:38 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
TwIzT Offline
member


Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 127
 Originally Posted By: William Wright

I used to be rather idealistic with regard to marijuana. I considered myself a serious writer and used weed to help me find my inspiration and motivation. After several years of getting nowhere, though, I concluded that for me, smoking weed was pointless unless I simply wanted the good feeling that the drug provided. I decided that it made more sense to pursue more realistic goals than selling the great American screenplay, and so far this decision seems to have paid off.



Are you saying you find more inspiration being sober? It's wierd how mind altering substances seem to have different effects on different people. Maynard James Keenan had to of been blazed when he wrote half of his work, maybe not though.


Edited by TwIzT (02/04/12 05:47 AM)
_________________________
We are all the lab mice bred for one purpose to run the wheel to power america. Cheeze controls us.

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#64305 - 02/04/12 09:01 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
This drugs and creativity is the sort of bullshit most people propose to justify their personal use of drugs. I don't care if they want to do drugs, au contraire; the more they use, the better.

But I prefer to not take the silly stories they build around drugs serious. If drugs had a positive effect on creativity, the world would be flooded by artist. The reality is; it is flooded by morons.

The artists or writers out there created their material because they had quality regardless of their drug use.

I've never seen a nobody become a somebody because he smoked weed or ingested LSD.

D.

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#64315 - 02/05/12 10:02 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I would argue that drugs can have a creative effect on certain individuals, but I would also agree, Diavolo, that these individuals can be creative without drugs. A good example is the Beatles. They were putting out great (albeit rather basic pop) songs before they tried marijuana and LSD. But afterwards, they took their artistry to a whole other level. This isn’t to say that their careers wouldn’t have transitioned in interesting ways without drug use. However, “Strawberry Fields Forever” or “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds” clearly wouldn’t have been written without drugs. (The over-the-top ridiculous “Revolution 9” wouldn’t have been written either.)

 Originally Posted By: TwIzT
Are you saying you find more inspiration being sober?

What I’m saying is that although I tended to be more motivated to write and was more likely to think of things that I would consider inspired when I was under the influence of marijuana, what I wrote was not selling. I was able to get an agent and place well in a few contests, but that was it. In the meantime, but finances were in the shitter. So I came to a crossroads: keep trying to make it as a writer or hang it up and work my tail off in the “real world” to get my finances in order. I chose the second option, and I think it was the right one.
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#64316 - 02/05/12 11:47 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't doubt the fact that some artists might have had some creative burst triggered by specific drugs but on average we can't say that drugs have a beneficial effect in art, or any other area for that matter. I'm quite sure there will be at least one artist out there to whom watching porn had positive effects on his creative work but I hear none claim that watching porn is good because it makes you more creative.

Most of the people that try to link creativity and drug use are those that are not successful. And it isn't about the creative effect here as it is about glorifying drugs and through that, glorifying themselves as a user. Most people don't do drugs because it has positive effects on their lives but because it makes them forget their lives for a while. Drugs are an escape route out of reality.

Now mind you, I'm pro drugs; recreational or addictive. But we should not fool ourselves with all that nonsense about the use itself or the effects. The majority of drugs users ruin themselves. The majority of recreational users are really not recreational users at all. Humans are just amazingly great at lying to themselves.

The same we see in the meme of drugs and creativity. In the creative scene, what drugs above all did was having negative effects. The list of those that ruined themselves, financially or physically, is amazingly long. At the same time, the list of artworks, inventions or ideas that came into existence through drugs use is amazingly short compared to the one without.

So all in all, the meme is just bullshit.

D.

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#64317 - 02/05/12 02:18 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I think it comes down to a matter of people thinking their ideas are better when they are high because they are high. Lowered inhibitions and all that.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#64318 - 02/05/12 02:25 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
That plays a part too 6. They experimented with it and had people create or write while using dope and a lot of them felt they were creating the next masterpiece while under the influence only to discover that when looking at it sober, it wasn't much more than mediocre.

What many forget is that creating, regardless of talent, is above all skill, gathered through hours of practice, learning and acquiring the required techniques.

Drugs usually have a detrimental effect at those levels.

D.

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#64319 - 02/05/12 06:00 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
RobertDonohue Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 19
Loc: NY USA
I myself partake in the use of THC and oppiates to release myself from the physical realm and traverse the astral plane. Other psychedelics will be used when I try to find more specific answers to issues in ritual. It is my belief that Lucifer or another daemon put these plants here and gave us the knowledge to unlock their potential for a reason. And if anyone has a problem with psychoactives being a "shortcut" or ''cheat'' they can feck off because I will not deny MY ego from the instant gratification it deserves.
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#64320 - 02/05/12 06:12 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
I myself partake in the use of THC and oppiates to release myself from the physical realm and traverse the astral plane. Other psychedelics will be used when I try to find more specific answers to issues in ritual. It is my belief that Lucifer or another daemon put these plants here and gave us the knowledge to unlock their potential for a reason. And if anyone has a problem with psychoactives being a "shortcut" or ''cheat'' they can feck off because I will not deny MY ego from the instant gratification it deserves.

Wow, there is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Drugs alter your brain chemistry, which is physical, so how the fuck do you figure this process and its effects let you 'traverse the astral plane'. What is the astral plane? You got any evidence for that, or a reasonable hypothesis as to how it operates?
Why do you believe lucifer put certain plants here? And why would a roman god(or planet venus) be hanging out with demons? And what is a demon anyway?

In short, how do you know any of these things? I think you are making it up as you go along.
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#64327 - 02/05/12 07:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Ignoring the rest of his nonsense, I'd like to remark that if the Devil put dope on Earth, he didn't do it for the users. It's the dealers that are his favorite children.

What most users don't understand is that they are to the dealers what a pig is to the farmer. But instead of the meat, the content of their wallet counts. The dealers don't care if users ruin or even kill themselves. All which matters is that it ain't happening before they run out of cash. Of course the users get their pleasure but the pig also enjoys his meal. Still, that doesn't make it more than a resource.

It's amazing to observe, nothing in that trade happens without a reason. Every time someone gets a discount, or one on the house, there's reasoning behind it. They like you as a person, are a friend, your shoulder to cry upon, your buddy to share your sad stories with. As long as you share your money with them. If you want to find out what they truly are, buy some dope on credit and then keep stalling the payment.

No, if the Devil had his hand in dope, it surely wasn't for the users.

D.

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#64328 - 02/05/12 10:14 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
'To the despisers of the body I speak my word. I wish them neither to learn afresh, nor teach anew, but only to bid farewell to their own bodies, - and thus become dumb.'

'I go not your way, ye despisers of the body! Ye are no bridges for me to the Overman!' - Thus spake Zarathustra.

The will to power is stronger than the will to survive, and we choose not to debilitate our body, mind, through substances as substances debilitate social dominance orientation.

In comparison to the subjective affects of manufactured drugs, dominance awareness states derived from real life dominance, - a rush of natural pleasure chemicals, and truly life affirming ecstasy.

Lacking the temperament and intelligences for an accurate appraisal of himself, - his anxiety relieving hallucination, he is under constant threat of devaluation, - that he can never be certain of when surveillanced by peers, and over time, eventually, he obeys anyway, policing his own behaviour: the normalisation of drinking, drugs, squalor and dishonour of the mundane: becoming to the lowest common denominator. Such is not only ignoble, but anti-evolutionary [for them], and so, not so ironically, in this we see what is simply part of a natural culling process.
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#64342 - 02/06/12 02:44 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Hegesias]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I see that you quoted Zarathustra in the first part of your post. Was the rest of it your words? In any event, the “substances debilitate social dominance orientation” part isn’t always true. Just go to a biker bar and try to socially dominate the biggest, baddest drunk in the place. Well, you’d probably have better luck with him than I would. You’re a tough guy. But me? Sober or not, I’d most likely end up his bitch.

The “we” in “we choose not to debilitate our body, mind, through substances” sounds a bit preachy. I happen to enjoy a few beers once in a while. I don’t see a problem with it, as long as I don’t allow drinking to dominate my life. Your stance against drugs and alcohol seems quite militant. This approach might work for you. It certainly doesn’t work for most of us.
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#64347 - 02/06/12 07:41 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
RobertDonohue Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 19
Loc: NY USA
Thank you William right for being at least one person to be open minded enough to understand where someone is coming from when they speak. there seems to be some bigoted persons here who need a little ritual in their life to loosen up and get in touch with ALL the energies that can be experienced from this realm.

If drugs isn't your thing thats one thing. Having a closed mind is a lot deadlier... to the ego.

This is my opinion and my beliefs.

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#64348 - 02/06/12 07:57 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
seekswisdom Offline
member


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 104
Loc: California,U.S.
Marijuana helps me medically and I only use it for that purpose,but now that im back in school, I have less and less of a desire to be high.Im thankfull I still have a great memory while high, but I know im not 100 percent and it's now bothering me.So I will seek out other alternatives,because I can't think as clearly stoned and want to learn as much as I can until I die,and pot is slowing me down.
I personally dont care what people take, as long as they are still in control of their actions. If you get to a point where you're chasing chickens in your B-day suit, then maybe you have a problem? but as long as you can take care of your bussiness and not cause shit, then feel free.

I would even go as far as saying, having a close mind is the root of all evil and always, most of the time, will lead to slavery.So yes, please keep an open mind for "mans sake".


Edited by seekswisdom (02/06/12 08:22 PM)
Edit Reason: more to say.

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#64353 - 02/06/12 10:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
Thank you William right for being at least one person to be open minded enough to understand where someone is coming from when they speak. there seems to be some bigoted persons here who need a little ritual in their life to loosen up and get in touch with ALL the energies that can be experienced from this realm.

If drugs isn't your thing thats one thing. Having a closed mind is a lot deadlier... to the ego.

This is my opinion and my beliefs.


Just because people call out your flagrant bullshit for what it is does not mean that anyone is a bigot or closed-minded. Despite what you may have heard, not all opinions and beliefs are as valid as others and none are entitled to be free of ridicule.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#64357 - 02/07/12 07:35 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
A lot of people equal open-minded with anything goes.

I could state that flowers are not the simple biological forms we take them for but in reality inter-stellar cell-phones which enable anyone discovering the correct use to contact other intelligent life-forms throughout the multi-verse.

I could consider anyone claiming that idea to be retarded, as being close-minded, or a bigot, but really, they'd be quite right. Being open-minded does not imply entertaining any wild hypothesis as possible, just as dismissing any retarded proposition does not imply being close-minded.

What we see more often than not is people taking the easy route, abandoning all serious thinking and embracing every idea that feels good to them. And when criticized, call others close-minded.

It allows them to be very comfortable with their own dumbness.

After all, they are the ones being open-minded.

D.

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#64379 - 02/08/12 10:33 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
I myself partake in the use of THC and oppiates to release myself from the physical realm and traverse the astral plane. Other psychedelics will be used when I try to find more specific answers to issues in ritual. It is my belief that Lucifer or another daemon put these plants here and gave us the knowledge to unlock their potential for a reason. And if anyone has a problem with psychoactives being a "shortcut" or ''cheat'' they can feck off because I will not deny MY ego from the instant gratification it deserves.

Of course, drug use for ritualistic purposes is nothing new. Some Native American tribes (peyote) and Rastafarians (cannabis) use drugs during rituals, for instance. I strongly suspect that drugs’ religious value exists only in the sense that the people using them perceive them in this way. This, however, is my opinion regarding any “spiritual agent”: The Bible is a religious guide to Christians who “buy into it". To me, it is simply an interesting (and deeply flawed) book.

My advice to you regarding the ritualistic use of drugs would be the same as to a Christian’s ritualistic use of the Bible: Do what works for you. If you think it enhances your life in some way, go for it. Others may not agree with you, but so what? We weren’t put on this earth to agree. We were put here to find our own way in life. You don’t need our approval.
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#64495 - 02/13/12 09:24 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
TwIzT Offline
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Registered: 12/21/11
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 Quote:

This also makes no sense. If "it" is an escape from reality then how is "it" not about the trip or visuals? Secondly, LSD is a lot like many other hallucinogens; DMT, Psilocybin/Psilocin, Mescaline etc. Sure, each on has its own unique properties but essentially the only difference between these substances (aside from chemical makeup) are the intensity and duration of the effects.


Explanations make sense to everyone, now don't they. I suppose I could possibly expand a little. It seems most people when they experience something that is as unusual as pychedellic they tend to focus on it, almost as if they have tunnel-vision tuned in only to the distorted reality that they are living. If they look past all the frills and begin to explore they're mind they open up a new level to the trip. Once that is done you completley disconnect yourselve from everything around you. And like I said your reality ceases to exist. One could say, or might describe it as an out of body experience without quite saying so much.

Do you speak from experience or from what you have read or heard. I assure you, the chemical properties are different and the visuals are different. Excluding LSD-LSA and Peyote-Mescaline. DMT is a whole different experience on it's own very intense and very short. I'm saying out of all of them LSD, DMT, 2CE, 2CB, pure mescaline, synthesised mescaline, peyote, and salvia. My prefered pychedellic is LSD, because if you look past the reflection in the mirror, you can dwelve into a new reality once you step through it. All the while looking behind you at the reversed mirror, and seeing your old reality. If you explore the effects to the mind more than the effects on the body you can experience it to its full extent.


Edited by TwIzT (02/13/12 09:29 AM)
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#64513 - 02/15/12 10:23 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
Diavolo Offline
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Sure hallucinogenic drugs affect the brain, often to such a degree it reconfigures the input/output compilation for a while. But what do you learn from it besides the realization reality is simply what your brain tells it to be?

It's not as if you tap into unknown resources or travel through unexplored territory. Sure you might have strange experiences but nothing which appears wasn't available in the brain already. All that it causes is a distorted compilation.

At best it either is a short vacation from the reality one is used to, or as inspirational as reading a book, listening to music or watching a movie. At worst, it's escapism.

D.

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#64527 - 02/16/12 05:55 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
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Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Orlando, Florida
This post is for D, for I have already been told you are going to have fun tearing into me \:\) Ha, bring it

According to your original post you seem to think that all drugs were put on the earth to make money, in some way or another. I would have to dis-agree with that statement. Have you forgotten the spiritual properties associated with natural occurring herbs and fungus? It's true for most, that these drugs have become a way for most people to escape reality, if not only momentary. But for centuries before hand they had no monetary value. They were deemed as ways to open your mind and take you on a journey of spiritual enlightenment/recognition. They were used by shamans and still are in various tribes, free of charge. Why else would they be so illegal if not to suppress the greater realization of society(besides overdoes concerns)? Why would they promote beer, on every other billboard, which does the opposite and actually dulls your senses when taken in large amounts?
Unlike past generations long ago, we have so quickly forgotten of the important things in life. Especially with american society, with all the distractions that are put to stop the interaction with nature. Too often I find that most people are too busy with their bullshit to stop and even look up at the stars and gander at fascinating and impressive surroundings. If I use a hallucinogen, I have a purpose(most the time)and place. I like to be outside away from large groups of people to get full effect. I have a goal in mind. A question or personal dilemma that may boggle my mind perhaps. While my brain seems to operate in different ways I am still lucid. When my conscious is operating on overdrive, I tend to drift into deep thought, and start to look at things in a different light, in a different shape, and different value. Making wild hypotheses and scenarios that no movie or book have yet to produce for me yet. Not always being desirable thoughts (loss of relationships, deaths, drama) they are always inspiring and delve deep into my emotions on a level I never thought I had.

I have a friend with a dad in the coast guard. His dad has the sweetest job traveling the world setting up artillery ranges. He is definitely the most well rounded and cultured person I know. With my friend being his only son, he was curious on the effect of mushrooms that his son had been taking and what type of awakening he could have. Determined to do this correctly and with the least variables to the product, he decided to grow his own. So he bought some spores from a reliable source and commenced to fruit the fungus in a terrarium. For days we watched the fungus grow and kept a sharp eye on it. While he waited for it to grow he commenced rising a full size teepee that stands 30 feet tall. For this he cut down many trees and skinned them to make the structure. The only thing store bought was the enormous canvas that covered the outside of it. Once the shrooms bloomed, he waited a few days for them to dry out. He gave me a few but told me this was a journey he was doing by himself. And he did, out on his farm, inside a teepee, fire burning in the middle, and probably naked. He definitely came out a different man in some aspects, or at least he believes so. And that is what matters, he had an experience he could not have had by using books or music. He found parts of himself that only he could explain to himself, no one else. With proper technique it can change you, that's what I'm trying to say. You can release the unknown in yourself. So where has our culture gone wrong with the real usage of drugs? Most are no play things or just black market bullshit, they did have a meaning past that. We just need to recognize...
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#64540 - 02/16/12 12:10 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
Diavolo Offline
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I don't think drugs are put on Earth to make money. As a matter of fact, I don't even think drugs are put on Earth.

What I have an issue with is the glorified status of drugs which people use to glorify themselves as a drug user. And yes, the spiritual properties are also something I classify as self-glorifying nonsense.

Sure somewhen in a time period long long ago humans accidentally discovered that when chewing certain substances, or plants, they entered the realm of spirits, or the gods started to talk to them. And a new class arose who, more than others, understood what exactly was said by either spirits or gods. In today’s terms this is called spotting a job vacancy.

I'm not going to bother about their reasons since they evidently lived in a strange unexplained world but nowadays, this spiritual quest is, in the majority of cases, bullshit. People do drugs because they want to do drugs.

Like I said; I do not care at all, I'm pro drugs. But puh-lease spare me the spiritual, liberating, creative, mind-releasing, paradigm-shifting excuses. People just want to get high. Just like the majority of people don't drink alcohol for the exquisite taste or calming properties. They just want to get drunk and have a good time.

And that's what it is about; joy or escapism. Just like some weed smokers use it for medical reasons but the majority just want to get stoned. That's what humans use drugs for but apparently somehow this, to them, does not feel good enough a reason so they take their little paint-brush and apply it to loads of reasons, being displayed to us in all kinds of pretty colors; spiritual questing, creative explorations, paradigm-shifting...

But really, let's be honest here; it's just the high that counts.

D.

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#64542 - 02/16/12 12:49 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
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Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Orlando, Florida
I like your view point and do agree with most of what you are saying. It's a realistic approach to what drugs are to society today. It is about the high. Even I find myself wanting to indulge for the sole purpose of that, just getting high. It gives me my shits and giggles, literally. I will spare you with the spiritual BS but I was only trying to make a point. There can be some spiritual ties if you wish. Not always will this union always bring joy. I personally believe that alcohol is one of the things that really is part of the core to the pussification of the human kind when used in heavy amounts frequently. It clouds judgement, and I have been a victim of my own demise. More so, all drugs can be used to actually lose touch with reality, not just escape, and things can be passed easily by people. Most of the time without real knowledge of it, until it is too late. I think we see this a whole lot today.
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#64545 - 02/16/12 03:13 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
Diavolo Offline
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I'm not necessarily calling bullshit on you finding some spiritual benefit in drugs. I'm convinced people do find that in drugs as others find it in meditation, sleep deprivation or even through art.

But those that drop acid five times a week, or smoke weed each day can't expect to be taken serious when using these sort of justifications.

D.

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#64546 - 02/16/12 03:27 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
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Registered: 02/16/12
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I appreciate the understanding. I neither drop acid regularly or smoke pot daily. I think I see your point though. It's really about the frame of mind you have when working with such mediums. I am curious though. Do you, or have you experimented with such psychoactive drugs? And if so what was your intent?
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#64547 - 02/16/12 03:53 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
Diavolo Offline
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I'm very familiar with anything regarding drugs but there are certain drugs I never did or will never do. Those include, besides the stuff only idiots do, most hallucinogenic.

I've had similar effects triggered by other drugs but tripping is not my thing. Now people might say one can't have an opinion about them without the experience but then again I never heard them say an oncologist is full of shit because he isn't full of cancer.

I sometimes do drugs, like I sometimes do alcohol but every time I do these, I simply do them for the effect.

D.

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#64550 - 02/16/12 04:54 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
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Registered: 02/16/12
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Loc: Orlando, Florida
I like your answer. Very precise. I was going to state that if you have never actually done the things yourself then it is very hard to measure in a degree what kind of effect you will personally have. With different people come different experiences. That is why if we took a trip and never left the farm, my friends looked to me for guidance and console. I always seemed of strong mind.

As for your comment about the oncologist. There is only so much research you can do until you have to try it for yourself in some matters. For what are doctors but educated guessers? Sometimes you must do. This is how my friends dad conducted himself. He was completely perplexed by the idea and did a massive amount of research until he found a certain strain, grew it, and took the plunge. And this was a 40+ year old man first timer.

As for experimenting with synthetic drugs, I agree with you. Most of these "hard drugs" are best left to the idiots. And as with everything, not all things are meant for everyone. If you can channel yourself in different ways and achieve the effects I described above, then more power to you. For each their own. Such is life
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#64558 - 02/16/12 08:22 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
Diavolo Offline
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Down here we have a rather huge list of different beers. I've been drunk on many of them but do I miss something essential when not having been drunk on all?

It's the same with drugs; some you do and some you don't, but it's no secret information what they trigger and although the effects could be a new experience in itself, it isn't the type of experience that adds much to your understanding. If I'd tell you about the meaning of dreams and their significance in understanding yourself and the world around you, I suspect you'd call it bollocks. At least I would. And one can rightfully call it bollocks because dreams are nothing but side-effects of a brain at work. Any meaning discovered is meaning added by those interpreting them.

It's not different with hallucinogenics. There is no secret information that is revealed; no occult knowledge about reality or the self. It's not too different from dreaming; the brain simply is doing its thing, admittedly out of the normal, and even when the experience can appear meaningful, there is no actual meaning to it at all.

Meaning is just what we add to it.

D.

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#64566 - 02/16/12 11:19 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
James Westwood Offline
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Registered: 02/16/12
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Loc: Orlando, Florida
You are a worthy adversary indeed sir. I'm glad I sought you out. I'm not trying to shove my beliefs of rituals that deal with hallucinogens down your throat. Nor, do I want you to believe that doing such things, are required in any way to achieve a higher understanding. "Meaning is just what we add to it." True indeed. The only reason I feel such ways about my uses of the substances is from what I wanted to get out of. It's not secret information that we receive but more of a different perspective. I say this because I myself know that when "tripping" it is only the body's/minds reaction to the poison that produces these different thoughts and perceptions. So I agree to dis-agree. I agree that it is our mind that produces these vivid images and "self realizations" for the lack of a better word. But at the same time I dis-agree to the account it has no meaning. For the fact that it personally has meaning to me. And like most "rituals" having to do with the mind, it is in the manner that best suites the "master", being yourself. So it looks as if I am at a stand still. I can't prove to you it has any true importance. I can only speak from my experiences that are personal to me. I look forward to many more conversations with you my brother.
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#64596 - 02/18/12 01:02 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
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 Quote:
Sure hallucinogenic drugs affect the brain, often to such a degree it reconfigures the input/output compilation for a while. But what do you learn from it besides the realization reality is simply what your brain tells it to be?

It's not as if you tap into unknown resources or travel through unexplored territory. Sure you might have strange experiences but nothing which appears wasn't available in the brain already. All that it causes is a distorted compilation.

At best it either is a short vacation from the reality one is used to, or as inspirational as reading a book, listening to music or watching a movie. At worst, it's escapism.


This, a million times, this.

I have absolutely no problem with saying "sometimes, I just like to get high". When people decide to spout nonsense about how they use drugs to be more creative or to gain a better understanding of themselves and the world it comes across, to me, as an attempt at validating their decision to use drugs to other people and themselves. I don't feel such a need; I do what I do because I enjoy it and frankly I don't give a fuck whether or not "you" or anyone else approves of it.
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#64642 - 02/20/12 03:17 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Zach_Black Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
Agreed . If it gives you pleasure to indulge in ' drugs' so be it. We need not justify our actions with such nonsense like ' expanding my mind'. Sure some drugs give you an altered state of awareness , but the people that regularly indulge in such drugs doubtfully are still looking for that anymore.

How hard is it to admit you like taking drugs cause they are fun?
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#64660 - 02/20/12 02:58 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Zach_Black]
James Westwood Offline
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Registered: 02/16/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Orlando, Florida
Hey I like to be fucked up, it's enjoyable. Never said otherwise


One line posts are deeply frowned upon here. Morgan


Edited by Morgan (02/20/12 04:36 PM)
Edit Reason: information/warning
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#64804 - 02/23/12 10:34 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
TwIzT Offline
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Registered: 12/21/11
Posts: 127
Pick you posion it all kills you, be it drugs, meditation, sleep deprivation, or art. The only thing that is "bad" is drugs. Which society has a way of creating an unspoken emotion, or instinct towards certain beliefs they wish apon the populace to exert and maintain. A standard, but without it you have and bunch of roads leading to the same place. So what is the difference?
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#64884 - 02/25/12 03:09 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
namingthestars Offline
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Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 14
I don't approve of drugs and don't want to do any (which, as a teenager, occasionally causes problems with my peers, but that's alright), but I don't care if anyone else does them, as long as they aren't driving under the influence. I don't think that my disapproval should mean that other people can't do something; it may be a bad choice, but it's still theirs to make and to take responsibility for.
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#65000 - 02/28/12 07:46 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: namingthestars]
Lokian88 Offline
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Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
I am presently imbibing in some high grade hydroponic marijuana its producers have called "white widow", and given the very intense nature of its effects I am given to thoughts of how it just might spell the end of those too psycholoically unattuned to their own strengths to enjoy its stasis-inducing abilities.

I am very much intrigued by the kinds of exploits akin to Mister Croweleys in "Diary Of A Dope Fiend", though I am long past my own experiementations beyond THC in its uber-concentrations...Love to explore the possibilities with fellow pot-heads, and for the record, JUST because I fucking LOVE it!

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#65132 - 03/02/12 12:59 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: James Westwood]
riasb Offline
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Registered: 02/24/12
Posts: 18
Loc: New Hampshire
I love a substance that can make my experience richer, without clouding any thing. I get we are not to be the fools of earth, we are to be smart with our God Head winning, substance can take us for a ride and Satan wants us to be smart and use when it makes the most of your life's experience's on the left handed path.
My Belief is always made real to me, and I smoke often.
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#65134 - 03/02/12 01:16 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: riasb]
Erich Zann Offline
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Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: riasb
I love a substance that can make my experience richer, without clouding any thing.


Drugs aren't enriching anything without clouding another one. Either you're clean and grasp reality around you, or you're high above in your smokey dreams with at least small limits or biases in your perception of reality. Reality is reality - though you can be more attentive and concentrated, that's not possible through the use of mind-numbing stuff in my opinion.

 Originally Posted By: riasb
Satan wants us to be smart and use [...]


Wow, you seem to know that guy pretty good if he tells you what to do. Are you sure that's not the result of the regular consumption of the substances you mentioned... ?
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The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

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#65137 - 03/02/12 03:25 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Erich Zann]
Lokian88 Offline
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Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
Agreed! Drugs of any kind are either an escape or an alteration of reality, no rational person will argue otherwise.

I have never felt a need to "justify" my use to anyone, I imbibe, as stated above, because I enjoy it.

I have also never, however, had my imbibements trigger any sort of belief that there were somehow forces outside myself openning any "door's" or pulling any magickal strings that permitted me to be or see something I was not without the altered state.

It is as stated, those who do not possess the mental strength's that would stave off such delusions and the potential psychosis they can compel should probably leave drugs alone altogether...but then it is their few remaining brain cells to burn. Some of us were just blessed with a more extensive reserve, I suppose.

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#65180 - 03/03/12 07:46 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Lokian88]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
I myself enjoy promethazine/codeine syrup whenever its easily available. I know that codeine syrup was made popular by hip hop culture in recent years, aka "syzurp" to many who love gangster rap or the culture stemming from it, but promethazine has been known as a recreational drug for longer than hip hop has existed. I don't have to listen to screwed up/chopped up music while feeling the syrup - I could stand for some jazz with its relaxing vibes. Some pharmacies will sell you promethazine without a prescription as long as you sign your name on the bottom line, with the stipulation that you cannot buy more than a certain amount within a certain time frame. It sure will knock your ass out though, so please don't drive if you've had a decent amount. Though it may seem like a hip-hop stereotype, it is true that it mixes well with Sprite or any other soda water based drink.
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#65181 - 03/03/12 09:41 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
RobertDonohue Offline
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Registered: 04/21/10
Posts: 19
Loc: NY USA
i will not say what chemicals i recently ingested during ritual but when i tell you that i "fell" into our Black Mirror it is the truth. I was consumed by the abyss of my subconscious. I was being thrown around, stretched and disfigured. In my journey I had came in contact with the mexican god of death Santa Muerte. At first he appeared as a pyramid or mountain of gold with a red sun with thick rays behind it. The pyramid then formed a nose and the sun a crown. eyes formed. it looked almost mayan or aztec like.
while in the presence of this being i felt a great feeling of an ending coming about. I was on what looked like a line of objects that moved as if they were on a conveyer belt. the objects were like blocks that a child would play with. they were all sorts of weird colors too, like: blue, green, yellow, purple.
as all this was going on i had apparently fell on the floor knocked candles over and had been garbing at the ground as if to splash at water that wasnt there.

This experience instilled in me a new understanding of what it means to truly be "physical"

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#65182 - 03/03/12 10:26 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
This experience instilled in me a new understanding of what it means to truly be "physical"


Great, so you're physical and what now? The first time I noticed I was physical was when I touched the hot stove even when all told me not to do it.

So what's next after this incredible revelation?

D.

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#65183 - 03/03/12 10:32 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
Erich Zann Offline
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Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
So you were high as fuck, fell to the ground and could've easily burned your home to a pile of ashes by knocking the candles over. That's the thing furthest away from "being physical" I ever heard. Though it would probably have been fun watching you down there paddling around in your halluzinations.

Like it was said before by many: Just admit that you like taking the stuff and keep that "I encountered gods X and Y"-stuff to yourself. You most likely didn't meet anyone except for the images in your brain.


Edited by Erich Zann (03/03/12 10:33 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

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#65188 - 03/04/12 02:59 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: RobertDonohue]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: RobertDonohue
i will not say what chemicals i recently ingested during ritual but when i tell you that i "fell" into our Black Mirror it is the truth.....blah, blah, blah,


That is exactly the kind of shit that annoys the fuck out of me.

Last week, I ate a 10 strip of some good LSD and played MW3 for a good five-hours. At first, the brighter than usual colors and tracers were pretty distracting but after awhile I got "in the zone" and was killing mofos left and right. Then I watched some ATHF and giggled like a school-girl. Then I came down and went to bed. The point? There is none. Just like there was no point to what you said. But at least I don't look like a retarded jackass when making my nonpoint.
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#65219 - 03/04/12 09:37 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
William Wright Offline
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I’d like to play devil’s advocate and speak on behalf of our good friend Mr. Donahue.

Rituals are symbolic and, by definition, less than what might commonly be considered rational. Whether drug enhanced or not, rituals are neither “right” nor “wrong” but simply personal. Robert obviously had a strong reaction to his ritual (although he may be unclear why or what it all means, if it means anything at all). His mistake, it would seem, was sharing his experience with those of us who cannot appreciate it in the way that he did.

Oh, well. If the worst Robert gets is a verbal beat down from strangers on the Internet, then I suppose he’ll live. As Dan Dread recently said when defending his own unpopular choices, “An ounce of pure experience to me is worth a ton of safety.”
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#65220 - 03/04/12 09:46 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: William Wright
As Dan Dread recently said when defending his own unpopular choices, “An ounce of pure experience to me is worth a ton of safety.”


I'm quite sure Dan will agree with me that what he considers experience is far removed from what our friend Donahue does.

Rituals and drugs are as much experience as reading a book. It's just the mind dwelling in a fantasy land. The experience Dan has in mind, and to which I agree, is of a whole different nature.

D.

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#65221 - 03/04/12 10:14 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Pure experience is only really valuable if you have a brain with which to process it. With that said, D hit the nail..this really has nothing to do with anything that relates to the discussion from which that quotation was mined.
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#65225 - 03/05/12 12:11 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dan_Dread]
William Wright Offline
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Obviously arguing with you about what you meant by your quote is a lost cause, so I’ll leave that alone. But I maintain that any experience - be it a participating in a drug-enhanced ritual, kicking the shit out of an enemy or dying on a cross - is meaningful to the extent that one perceives it as meaningful. You get off on certain activities, and Robert (with whatever brain power he possesses) gets off on certain other activities. I say more power to both of you.
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#65227 - 03/05/12 12:47 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The issue is not that Mr Donahue finds his chemical adventures meaningful experiences or not, because I don't doubt he finds meaning in them.

The issue is also not that he does chemicals because if that's what he likes to do, who am I to try and stop him?

The issue is that he mixes these experiences with his other views which are really not different from the nonsense the other religious out there share with us, and, identical as them, deserve nothing but our intellectual scorn.

D.

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#65256 - 03/06/12 12:01 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Although I can certainly appreciate the idea of holding a mirror up to the absurdity of organized religion, I got the impression that Robert was merely conveying what he sensed during his hallucinatory experience, no different than describing a dream. Yes it was irrational, but such experiences are by their very nature irrational. The pyramid and “Mexican god of death” could be considered mythological instead of religious elements, and they could be appreciated similar to the way that Atheistic Satanists appreciate and utilize the myth of Satan. The only reaction he stated was that he had a new understanding of what it means to truly be “physical.” Not too clear what he meant by that, but nothing in it strikes me as overtly religious.

Maybe Robert is a seeker who uses intoxicants to help decipher the mysteries of life. Either that or he’s just another fuckin’ stoner with his head in the clouds. Probably some combination of the two.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#65261 - 03/06/12 05:30 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
The only reaction he stated was that he had a new understanding of what it means to truly be “physical.” Not too clear what he meant by that, but nothing in it strikes me as overtly religious.


The problem is not that it sounded "overtly religious", the problem is that it sounded overtly retarded.

 Quote:
Maybe Robert is a seeker who uses intoxicants to help decipher the mysteries of life. Either that or he’s just another fuckin’ stoner with his head in the clouds.


Synonymous.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#65262 - 03/06/12 07:30 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Shit...I can't argue with that. Next time, Robert's gonna have to find his own damn advocate.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#65286 - 03/06/12 10:35 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
I had this argument, or what semblance of an augment, with similar paranoiac, neurotic, hippies. Their argument always assumes that they have 'experienced' a deeper or more hard reality than the sheltered non drug user. I put forward that I'd done more than soft drugs and then they said I hadn't tried the hardest shit, and know jack shit about reality. In the end I had to ask them if they'd beaten a man to death, and they said no.

Basically my point is that intimately fucking with another's mind, while they are vulnerable under the influence, is not only a natural urge, but more thrilling than the manufactured affects of the drugs. My personal experience with those into drugs has always been of this nature and the dialogue is very unique, sincere, full of fear - a rarely seen aspect of the persons personality is revealed, in an almost immediate Stockholm syndrome - they know they're powerless and desperately try to fight the affects of the drug to ensure their safety, fascinating to observe.

I like this because substance abuse is a subjective means of escapism, where actually vulnerable to being cornered, by objective reality.

The obvious argument against this is that certain stimulants make a weak person stronger, such as PCP, freebase, and to go out on a limb, the Nazi's nitromethamphetamine combat drug. You can still stab such a person(s), possibly a hundred times, and have a legitimate defence in court.

Manufactured substances cannot supplement temperament.

Satanists are born, not made.
_________________________


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#65297 - 03/07/12 07:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Hegesias]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I’d like to start with a compliment: Generally speaking, your writing has a poetic quality to it that I find intoxicating (no pun intended). You clearly have a gift for writing, a diamond in the rough. Briefly from the “Metal & The Intellect” thread:

“This music has at least some affect to relate a cold and emotionless grandeur, like the hard stillness of winter: the reality of Nature's violence and her coldly indifferent universe.”

And now a friendly challenge to your statement, “Satanists are born, not made.” This suggests to me that people have no say in the matter; either they were all along or they weren’t. In my opinion, this goes against the idea of self determination that Satanism stands for. I welcome your response (or anyone else’s).
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#65298 - 03/07/12 08:11 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't know how Heg sees it but this is a subject that is often debated and the views upon it vary greatly.

I myself agree with the statement that Satanist are born, not made, at least the kind of Satanism I have in mind.

To many people Satanism is a belief system just like Christianity is. They encounter it, it mesmerizes them for whatever reason, and they adapt their personality and acts accordingly. They learn to be a satanist after encountering Satanism, even if it is only a partial adjustment. In some way, they have to do effort to be a satanist.

Then we have the other type, a minority compared to the first group, to whom being a satanist comes natural. They only become a satanist the moment they use the label but they don't need to do effort or adapt to be one. On the contrary, they have to do effort to not be a satanist.

The second group are those that are born a satanist while the first are made, even if they might be self-made. The drop-outs you regularly see who quit being a satanist to become something else, are close to all part of the first group.

D.

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#65312 - 03/08/12 12:15 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Diavolo]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
It could be argued that all self-aware beings possess the seed of Satanism – a carnal nature – but that some choose to hide the seed (“exorcise the demon”), while others nurture the seed so that it grows into a mighty oak (“exercise the demon”). Whether this would mean that Satanists are born or made is open to interpretation.
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#65315 - 03/08/12 12:43 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I see it different.

It is true that carnality is a part of us humans but I consider that negligible in relation to Satanism. Yes a lot of people try to exorcise, or minimize, this animalistic part while others fully embrace it but it is not this difference that divides both groups.

The difference is an inherent drive, which is something one has or has not. Whether one likes to express it as Will to Power, or an extreme form of dominance, matters little but some are born not only anti-authoritarian but also have a, maybe unhealthy, attraction towards conflict, internal and external and find their thrills while expressing themselves in these. Through this, an approach like the traditional LHP comes natural to them. They don't have to make the choice to walk such a path as much as they have to make the choice to not walk it.

This drive is not something one can activate or force upon oneself. If it is there, it always expressed itself whether this sort of person encounters Satanism or not. If it isn't there, it will never be.

D.

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#65321 - 03/08/12 10:34 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: TwIzT]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Did you hear what I said hippies? I said that drug addled Satanist are psuedo-Satanist, subjecting what Satanism actually is 'entelechy' to the generalisations based on those incompetent and deluded, even self victimised dross. So don't attribute to yourselves something you not only fail to rationally comprehend, but fail to even residually actualise in real life, what is evidently missing from your temperament. Call yourselves Luciferians or magicians, Harry Pothead, anything but Satanic.

Now, put that in your pipe and smoke it.
_________________________


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#65356 - 03/09/12 09:45 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Hegesias]
Lokian88 Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
Let me make sure that I have this correct, Hegesias, you assert that any who elect to imbibe in substances that they, as individuals, deem to be pleasurable, and thus conducive to their own happiness, are somehow "less" the "true" Satanist you are because you, of your own accord, elect to not imbibe in said substances? Am I drawing the correct conclusion from your arguments?

If so I must say that I find your perspective on Satanic Law altogether ill-informed and foolish, for if there is any concensus in the mad anarchic-oriented ideology that is Satanism it would seem that it is the INDIVIDUALS decision regarding the determination of their destiny and the deeds on the path thereto that define the people who are, or are not, TRULY following Satan's lead.

Your assumption that your abstinence somehow give's you an advantage over anyone is a completely idiotic underestimation on your part, and if there must be proof in that proverbial pudding, I pray to my demons that I am that drug addled individual you meet in a dark alley one day, so that you might learn that some of us who experiment with altered states of consciousness in NO way lose touch with our instinctual abilities to destroy all that lies in the path of our supremacy.

You have NO idea of the TRUE power of Satanus Eternus.

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#65357 - 03/09/12 10:09 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Lokian88]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
So, you think when you are high, drunk or whatever that you are just as competent., in a dark alley at that, as clear headed person?

That is one of the silliest things I have ever read.

Drugs affect your motor functions, lessen reaction time, etc. They affect the way an individual thinks, their reaction time etc and that would affect any potential confrontation.

I don't go to the shooting range drunk for a reason. ;\)
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#65358 - 03/09/12 10:14 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Lokian88]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
Well, I wouldn't disagree with Hegesias that strong. Especially "LaVeyan Satanists" (of course I don't know if he is one) tend to take up a stance against drug use. Lots of followers of ASL's philosophy don't touch any drugs at all. The thing for the other ones is that you have to differ between the occasional use of drugs and an addiction to those substances. Furthermore, the context has to be looked at: if someone uses drugs occasionally because he just enjoys it it's a different thing from someone who thinks he can achieve magical results through it or something like that.

As somebody being in line with the philosophy of Anton S. LaVey myself (yep, and I'd still do it if I wouldn't know the works of that man) I'd also call the latter a big heap of shit. Drugs don't open any real doors when used in rituals. When it comes to personal use for pure enjoyment, I simply don't care. I myself wouldn't use them, but if someone wants to, I'm okay with it as long as the person doesn't bother me while being intoxicated.

 Originally Posted By: Lokian88
Your assumption that your abstinence somehow give's you an advantage over anyone is a completely idiotic underestimation on your part


Here I have to disagree. Abstinence/reasonable indulgence will always give you an advantage over the addicts. And as FemaleSatan stated, abstinence will give you an advantage that moment you face an intoxicated counterpart.
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

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#65359 - 03/09/12 10:19 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: FemaleSatan]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Actually, not all drugs adversely affect reaction time; stimulants (such as caffeine and cocaine) enhance reaction time. Other substances, like alcohol, can increase confidence and aggression which can come in handy in certain situations. It can also screw you over. The point being, neither one are the case for all people in all situations.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#65360 - 03/09/12 10:38 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Lokian88 Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
Precisely, the notion that all imbibers are "addicts", those constrained by their imbibements in ways that control THEM, is the error in your conclusions.

I drink regularly, but am seldom "drunk". I smoke pot daily, but am never " out of touch" in such a way that all 6'3" 210 pounds of me is not prepared to demolish the physiology of most commoners and adepts on this plane.....That's my point, you assume an advantage where there is no empiracle evidence of such, in fact where some evidence suggests you may be at a DISadvantage because those in altered states may possess powers beyond your inexperienced minds to comprehend or counter.

And fuck your shooting range, shoot a few living, breathing, then bleeding and dying people, in REAL life, then come back and talk to me about what advantages you have. Those targets at your range don't shoot back, so what skills in a realistic situation do you really have? ZERO!


Edited by Lokian88 (03/09/12 10:39 PM)

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#65364 - 03/10/12 01:11 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Lokian88]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Now Mr 88, we've made a point to observe your profile, and, lo and behold, listed is eugenics. Please do, continue. Small minds discuss people; great minds, ideas.

The unfit, are unfit. We are not championing abstinence, we are championing power - in all its forms, psychical and physical - personal entelechy.

I put it to the board: how does 'the pleasure of drugs' weaponize the mind, powerhouse the body?
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#65365 - 03/10/12 02:46 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
Precisely SA. Rather a positive or negative effect, drugs tend to effect reaction time, reaction to pain, etc. Rather it screws you over or not. \:\)

Lokian, really?? A post about how I am not dealing with moving targets on the shooting range, your size,etc. Moving targets was not my point. My point was that there is a reason I don't go to the shooting range drunk. That's it.

You can hold on to the idea that drugs have no effect on you, but come on. You do them for the effect, not because they have vitamin C in them. If you were in a physical confrontation whatever substances you had ingested would be a factor in how the confrontation went down.


Edited by FemaleSatan (03/10/12 02:50 AM)
Edit Reason: I don't like the drugs,but the drugs like me.
_________________________
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#65382 - 03/10/12 08:45 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Lokian88 Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
No, Ma'am, not a post about your shooting MOVING targets or not, but LIVING ones. Your proficiency on that range, even with moving targets, will mean nothing when/if you are in a situation where someone is actually going to die when you pull that trigger, and perhaps firing back at you with your demise in mind.

You can tell yourself all you like that you are steelhearted and ruthless, but until you've actually taken anothers life in real time, you simply CANNOT know what you are really made of in that regard.

As to the whole reaction time arguments, again, you draw conclusions you cannot hope to prove out either way until you are actually in a situation in which to examine the variables. I have witnessed a PCP mad individual destroy four trained (and presumably sober ) cops.....how do you account for that?

You mistook my point, which was not to advocate drug use as an advantage, I take no position on others imbibements,it's not my fucking business until they make it so, then I demonstrate the folly of that to them. But for you to assume that you have an advantage due to your abstinence is an underestimation that just might prove your undoing one day.

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#65384 - 03/10/12 10:56 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Lokian88]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
"No, Ma'am, not a post about your shooting MOVING targets or not, but LIVING ones. Your proficiency on that range, even with moving targets, will mean nothing when/if you are in a situation where someone is actually going to die when you pull that trigger, and perhaps firing back at you with your demise in mind." L8


Things die when I pull the trigger on a seasonal basis. I do hunt and even clean my own game. Does that show I could stop somebody trying to kill me? Not necessarily.

Self defense and using guns specifically to defend yourself, not just have a hip trophy takes a lifetime of commitment and training. It's a path that I am actively pursuing.

Anyway,this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.You are attempting to use a smartass comment I made as a way to deflect from the topic at hand. How about them Titans? Basically, try again.


"You can tell yourself all you like that you are steelhearted and ruthless, but until you've actually taken anothers life in real time, you simply CANNOT know what you are really made of in that regard." L8


I have NEVER made that claim. Projection much? You are the one posturing as a stoned badass on this thread, not me.

"As to the whole reaction time arguments, again, you draw conclusions you cannot hope to prove out either way until you are actually in a situation in which to examine the variables. I have witnessed a PCP mad individual destroy four trained (and presumably sober ) cops.....how do you account for that?" L8


I accounted for those situations when I wrote this:

"Rather a positive or negative effect, drugs tend to effect reaction time, reaction to pain, etc. Rather it screws you over or not." FS

"You mistook my point, which was not to advocate drug use as an advantage, I take no position on others imbibements,it's not my fucking business until they make it so, then I demonstrate the folly of that to them." L8

More pretension. You were making a veiled threat from someone who does abstain, while claiming drugs have no effect on people when they engage in physical confrontation.

That's utter crap and anyone who has ever, Oh I don't know, drank a beer knows chemicals change your reaction time. Does it depend on the drug what the effect is? Yeah. I have never claimed otherwise. But I can say even the almighty drug caffeine may affect the result of a fight.

"I take no position on others imbibements,it's not my fucking business until they make it so, then I demonstrate the folly of that to them. But for you to assume that you have an advantage due to your abstinence is an underestimation that just might prove your undoing one day. " L8

The only abstinence I have claimed on this thread is that I don't drink and go to the shooting range.

I have not posted a position on drug use on this thread. I am fairly neutral on this topic, unlike you. You can't resist the urge to hit the people you assume (keyword) don't do drugs. That's not neutral. You are pro-drug.


Edited by FemaleSatan (03/10/12 10:59 PM)
Edit Reason: adding to my longest post ever here. ;)
_________________________
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#65385 - 03/10/12 11:11 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Lokian88 Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/14/12
Posts: 91
Loc: New England
Incorrect, I am pro-people-doing whatever-they choose, FS. That I imbibe, something I have discussed previously here, may cause me to lean toward the company of those more libertarian on the matter, yes, but I hold no ill will for the abstainer.

I DO take issue with the abstainers, however, who claim to be Satanists yet assume a position of superiority in their Satanism over those who are, quite simply determining their own destinies via their own definitions. Is that not the very heart of Satanism?

And yes, I resent the steroetypes that are generally thrown around by some abstainers, as if every pot smoker were a parody of Jeff Spicoli,etc,etc...

I didn't find it off-topic to point out the folly in underestimating someone simply because they elect to get high,etc,etc.


Edited by Lokian88 (03/10/12 11:12 PM)

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#65386 - 03/11/12 03:07 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Lokian88]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
This is stupid.

If you use any drugs as a crutch or as an excuse, you have problems.

If your drug use gets in the way of real life action and results you have a problem.

If your drug use endangers me or mine, you have a problem.

OTHERWISE, who gives a shit.

It's your choice, your responsibility.

Oh, and no one cares.

Drug users are just people. You are not a Satanists cause you use drugs, and you are not a Satanists if you don't. No one can tell you what you are, but if you have to ask, you are not.

Fucking hell.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#65392 - 03/11/12 08:16 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Morgan]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
I believe Morgan summed up best what can truthfully be considered if anything a universal view on drugs. To each his or her own! Take note there is a difference between drug use and abuse, and some people do not know how to differentiate and are not able to control themselves when it comes to using a substance with a little wisdom. When it comes to drug use, there are not many drugs done in moderation that you cannot point to at least a few beneficiary purposes. So where do we draw the line between use and abuse? Again I point to what Morgan stated so please re-read her post. No matter your view on drugs prior to her post, I feel if you read her post and at least agree its 99 percent true then you will benefit from it personally and in the way that you deal with other people in the never ending panorama of drugs and the debates over them.
_________________________
"I’m just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#66581 - 05/05/12 12:23 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
totoblack Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 9
Loc: Canada
I love hallucinogens, acid, mushrooms, im dieing to try peyote.
bot nonetheless weed and beer on a daily bases.
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Music is the strongest form of Magic. x Marilyn Manson

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#70177 - 08/12/12 06:23 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: totoblack]
Naama Offline
member


Registered: 07/23/12
Posts: 318
Loc: NewYork
Crack is surely unsatanic. I don't know any person who smokes crack and is able to his thing.
Addiction itself is unsatanic to.

Never trying any kind of drugs, staying away form them and highlighting this point to others is unsatanic.
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#70178 - 08/12/12 06:25 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Naama]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
I don't really go past a few drinks these days. I am for the legalization of drugs, but I'll leave each to their own.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#74709 - 01/21/13 08:10 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Blackbanner Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/12/13
Posts: 29
Loc: Bartow County,Georgia
Well those who choose to smoke pot now, if they wish to be legal, can move to Colorado and Washington states where it is now legal. at least under state law.I do believe however the Feds still frown on the use of schedule 1 drugs.That's good enough for me not to use it.

Blackbanner

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#74725 - 01/22/13 08:20 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Blackbanner]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Why not?

I had replied way back and given life changes I'll entertain the thread once more.

I had talked about that K2 spice whatever you feel like calling that herbal inscence. I'll stick by my original thoughts on the older versions but as far as newer ones go I don't even know/care if it's around.

Now while I rarely get too inebriated to not be legally allowed to drive I do occasionally par take in the good old fashioned reefer. I prefer the relaxing effects of weed to booze.

I think all nature forming drugs i.e marijuana and cocaine should be legal, not off any reasoning based off fact but opinion. I don't par take in using cocaine I just think let the man build his boat as he see fit when it comes to the ingestion of foreign substances weither it hurts him or not.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#74759 - 01/23/13 02:52 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Ringmaster]
seekswisdom Offline
member


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 104
Loc: California,U.S.
I find drugs useful or harmful. It depends on the individuals self control. For example when my back hurts I take a vicodin too get me thru my day. Weed and alcohal wind me down, relieves pain and helps me sleep. I don't let my self get dependent on them so I always control what I take, when I take them and how I take them.

I agree that dugs need to be decriminalized because how is harming yourself a crime. Punish the fucking person for their stupid behavior, not the drugs.

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#74763 - 01/23/13 01:03 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: seekswisdom]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
[General reply]
Personally, I went through a lot of different stages as I grew up latching onto mainly cocaine throughout my teens and early twenties. Probably one of the hardest things for me to really realize what I was losing in the process of doing it all. You'd think getting your ass kicked over and over by your "loving partner" would knock some sense into you.. it did eventually. But what REALLY got me was when what I was being forced to lose was worth way more than what the cocaine was worth.

I was quite able to quit right away afterwards and have never relapsed since. Going hand in hand with my belief that if you really want to actually quit, you can.

Given my history with drugs as I was hooked with coke and also a immense pain killer user (still can be at times), I have actually learned to despise those around me that constantly use drugs and think of it as a way to relax or vacation from the real world. To the point where I have lost several friends and have had rather large arguments with my partner resulting in near catastrophic endings. I have seen the inside of addiction and the horrific so I cannot allow myself to partake in any such hard things.

I remember a couple years back I was informed that, while out of town, my partner decided to do some of my old drug of choice. I flipped shit. Not in a physical "I want it" way but it angered me that he didn't have any respect for himself to even wonder if what these strangers had given him was even what they claimed it was.

I have been told that I have an extremely aggressive moral judgement when it comes to drugs but it only comes out in me when I see those I love do them. And even then, if I'm angry enough.. push comes to shove I will say "it's your life, not mine.. go ahead and get fucked".
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#74766 - 01/23/13 01:56 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
All drugs are forbidden, prohibited, outlawed, condemned, blasphemous, outrageous, proscribed, damned, and despicable - except for the One, the Master, the Universal, the Omnipotent drug, absolutely essential not just to all higher thought but to the most exalted realms of initiatory ecstasy and bliss: Chocolate.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#74771 - 01/23/13 03:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
Oh dear chocolate. How many hearts will you steal before obesity becomes a problem that people are forced to deal with aggressively instead of passively? I must admit, I have a soft spot for chocolate.. and caffeine. So much caffeine that my little heart might just give out one day. Alas, there it is.
_________________________
I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#74777 - 01/23/13 05:00 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: OrgasmicKarmatic
I must admit, I have a soft spot for chocolate.. and caffeine. So much caffeine that my little heart might just give out one day. Alas, there it is.

Ah, yes, coffee ... Well, of course chocolate contains caffeine too, which is how the Aztecs managed to stay awake during all those boring human sacrifices. Coffee is also the staple diet of graduate students working all night on seminar papers. Indeed in grad school I discovered one particular brand, Kava, which has the acid neutralized so that you can keep on drinking cup after cup without your gastric system exploding. Of course the next morning when you go to the seminar and the prof asks you a question, you respond with a piercing shriek that shatters the classroom windows ...
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#74809 - 01/23/13 11:34 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Goliath Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
I'm a big fan of coffee as well. A while ago, I made the switch from drip-percolators to the French press, which really does produce a superior brew. But to be honest, it's a bit of a pain in the ass, and my own laziness often leads me to the nearest Tim Horton's--a shamefully un-Satanic example of compulsion trumping indulgence.

I am much more self-indulgent when it comes to that other great liquid caffeine-delivery system, tea. The brewing of a pot of tea (or rooibos, or mate) is an almost nightly ritual of mine, involving carefully-regulated water temperatures, precise brewing times, and of course, loose teas in filter baskets instead of that hateful mass-market abomination, the teabag.

Coffee drinkers who are also readers may be interested in Stewart Lee Allen's The Devil's Cup: A History of the World According to Coffee, which is part pop commodity history, and part coffee-tourism travelogue. The chapter on the revolutionary impact of the rise of coffee-drinking in Early Modern Europe is especially thought-provoking. I did not know, for example, that, "In the early 1600s pope Clement VIII was even asked by his bishops to ban the 'diabolical hell brew,' apparently on the grounds that its black colour and ritualistic use by the Sufis made it a Satanic perversion of the eucharist wine." (p. 128) Allen doesn't cite his authority for this claim--but if it's not true, it should be.

I'll have a large diabolical hell brew with cream, please.
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#74818 - 01/24/13 04:13 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Goliath]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Loc: New York
I tried just about every kind of coffee maker on the market, and I agree that the French Press is superior. I don't think it's a pain in the ass at all. Clean up is as easy as rinsing out the jug, rinsing off the filter (I only take the filter apart maybe once a week) and you're done.

I used to grind my own beans at home, and thought I was really cool for doing that \:\) but I think I smoked my taste buds away to the point where if I grind a pound in the store once a week, it tastes the same to me as if I grind it fresh for each serving.

The water temperature is important, but I don't get to anal about that. Hot, but not so hot that it boils works for me. The coffee connoisseurs have the exact temperature the water is supposed to be for the French Press, but I don't go that crazy. I do keep the four minute brewing time however; well usually, sometimes things come up and it ends up being fifteen minutes. Good thing I like it strong.


Edited by Asmedious (01/24/13 04:25 AM)
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#74820 - 01/24/13 09:07 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Asmedious]
Goliath Offline
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Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
 Originally Posted By: Asmedious
I tried just about every kind of coffee maker on the market, and I agree that the French Press is superior. I don't think it's a pain in the ass at all. Clean up is as easy as rinsing out the jug, rinsing off the filter (I only take the filter apart maybe once a week) and you're done.


Actually, I was thinking more about needing a thermos, even at home.

But you're right, of course. I shouldn't exaggerate the very small amount of extra effort involved.

The real problem is me. I just don't care as much about the quality of my coffee as I do about my tea. Or perhaps, my Demonic Self cares, but my Core Self doesn't.

I can taste the difference it makes. But the difference isn't enough to motivate me, half the time.

And I hear what you're saying about not tasting a difference between home-ground and store-ground. I once shelled out for half a pound of Jamaica Blue Mountain, after reading about how wonderful it was.

When I brewed it up, it tasted like... coffee. What a drag.

Now, one of my former colleagues--he was hard-core. He had an espresso machine in his office, and he went to extraordinary lengths to keep it running perfectly.
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#74825 - 01/24/13 12:48 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Goliath]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
When I tallied up all the beverages I was least likely to consume, I realized that what they all had in common was caffeine. I guess I just don't like the taste of the stuff. I don't feel like I have a *need* for it, either. I'm one of those people that coffee drinkers want to punch in the morning. Not that I'm too "chipper", just that I'm alert and energetic and cognizant as soon as I wake.

Plus, for whatever reason, caffeine makes me sleepy, as does everything else that is supposed to get people wired up (sugar, carbs, ephedrine, etc.). Sleeping pills make me hallucinate but don't make me sleep.

I guess I'm just boring. A bit of nicotine and alcohol are enough drugs for me.

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#74826 - 01/24/13 03:02 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Goliath]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
Oh they're talking about coffee. \:\)

I use a french press, I think it makes a huge difference. This may be because I had a coffee maker that was about ten years old before I got the french press and every pot I brewed in it had a rusty taste. ;\)

My kids think the french press is fun. Whenever it starts brewing they get super hyper and start running around because of the sound it makes. They watch it like it's a Disney movie until it's done.

I also grind my own beans. I think it has a better taste then when you don't. I prefer Arabica over just about anything else and it can be cheap Arabica and I'm happy.
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#74829 - 01/24/13 03:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: FemaleSatan]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
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Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
I don't believe I've ever owned a French Press. Recently, Wicked's mother bought a Keurig and honestly, I love the Chai on the minute I can have and probably end up having one every night. Oh, it took forever for me to get her to understand that the "Latte" in "Chai Latte" did not mean coffee. I still don't think she quite understands just why the word is there then if there is no coffee in it.

I love coffee simply because it is so easy to get some and sit for a chat with friends I rarely see. Nothing beats a cup of coffee and a 5 hour long catch up with my best friend. These days, I am a slave to the energy drink machine and I probably spend more on Moster and Rockstar than I ever could or would spend on cigarettes on a daily basis. Oh, the things I could probably do without that little habit.. (Most likely, I would have far more dresses and shoes that I only wear once in a lifetime.)
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#74830 - 01/24/13 03:54 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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I don't think that we are talking about the same thing. The French Press doesn't make any sound, and it doesn't really "Brew." Basically it's a jar that you put coffee and hot water in, let it sit four minutes, then press down on a lever at the top of the thing which sends a filter through the concoction, there by seperating the grind from the liquid. Very simple.

The way that I learned about it originally was when my coffee brewer broke and I started just throwing coffee into hot water and then straining it through a paper towel. I discovered that the coffee came out really good. A friend of mine saw me doing this and she said, "Dude, why don't you just get a French Press, you'd get the same result with less work and mess." So I looked into it and the rest is history.
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#74844 - 01/24/13 06:01 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Asmedious]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
Mine's an electric french press. You put cold water in the container portion, put the grounds in this part that looks like a strainer and turn it on. It does all of the other stuff. When it's done making this swooshing noise the coffee is ready. This is the closest thing I can find to the one I have at home in a five second Google search.

https://www.google.com/shopping/product/...ved=0CHEQ5Q0wAQ
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#74846 - 01/24/13 07:07 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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WOW, never heard of an electric one before. I just did a search on youtube and came up with this one. Problem is boiled water makes coffee bitter, so it runs too hot. Plus you aside from heating the water seperately, you still have to do exactly the same thing that one does with a regular F.P.
this one
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#74852 - 01/25/13 12:58 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Asmedious]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Years ago back in 96 or so a client tried turning me on to the french press by bringing me in two personal 1 cup sized presses. At the time there was an Italian umm coffee house across the street from the shop the $3.50 cappuccino was to die for. There in a box around here somewhere never used them. Maybe I should take them out I'm curious now.

On exotic beans and tasting just like coffee well a year or two ago a friend knowing I like coffee went and brought us in some Kopi Luwak. Tasted like a bad cup of convenience store coffee to me. Would it be too much to say it tasted like shit? \:\)

On burning out your taste buds I think that's just a process of aging. You lose them naturally so things we used to like taste different and those we didn't like at times become palatable.

~T~
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#74854 - 01/25/13 02:38 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: ta2zz]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Oh hell yes, if you have a French Press sitting around give it a shot. The only problem with the one cup sized ones that I found is that they're a bit too small to make a full cup.

I'm guessing that Kupi Luwak coffee is the one where the beans are picked out of the feces of some animal? I heard about it in the movie the "Bucket List." The idea doesn't gross me out at all. Not sure what that says about me \:D but I'd try it.
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#75135 - 02/09/13 03:12 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Asmedious]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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The most eloquent philosophical observation on the topic of drugs, also from the 1960s' California Pelican ...
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#75148 - 02/10/13 05:06 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
khaos Offline
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Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 8
Loc: Sweden
Personally I think that all drugs are alright to use as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. I.e. you don't hurt anyone while being high/drunk, it doesn't affect the people around you in a negative way etc.
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#77025 - 06/09/13 08:25 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dannabis Offline
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Registered: 05/26/13
Posts: 4
Loc: Vancouver Island
Im pretty sure magic mushrooms were used in religious ceremonies. Aswell as ayoasca and peyote/mescaline.
Sometimes users would see the things they believed in, and could see different realitys.

I wonder is they ever used drugs like these with satanic rituals...

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#78009 - 07/13/13 02:31 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dannabis]
HisDivineShadow Offline
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Registered: 06/23/13
Posts: 36
Loc: Lakewood Ranch, FL
Only one way to find out what happens....lol

In all seriousness, it was a mushroom trip that inspired me to seek out the path I currently tread.


Edited by HisDivineShadow (07/13/13 02:32 AM)

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#80124 - 09/02/13 12:51 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: HisDivineShadow]
334forwardspin Offline
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Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
Personally, I don't do drugs at all, I don't even drink alcohol. However, I don't have any problems with people who do them, and don't think they should be illegal. Things like driving while high are a separate issue, just treat drugs like alcohol, which is my perspective on most arguments in favor of keeping drugs illegal.

Of course, you have to take responsibility for what you do while on drugs. There is no 'I was high' defense, even if drugs alter your mind, it was your choice to take the drugs that alter your mind so the choices you make while on drugs or alcohol are your responsibility.

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#80133 - 09/02/13 08:50 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 334forwardspin]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
I don't have any problems with people who do them


For me, I take issue with those that use them to self-medicate as a coping tool. These people are usually high-functioning dysfunctional. I call it Broken-doll Syndrome.
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#80141 - 09/02/13 03:03 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 334forwardspin]
JTF Offline
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Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 110
Loc: United Kingdom of Great Britai...
 Originally Posted By: 334forwardspin
Personally, I don't do drugs at all, I don't even drink alcohol. However, I don't have any problems with people who do them, and don't think they should be illegal. Things like driving while high are a separate issue, just treat drugs like alcohol, which is my perspective on most arguments in favor of keeping drugs illegal.

Of course, you have to take responsibility for what you do while on drugs. There is no 'I was high' defense, even if drugs alter your mind, it was your choice to take the drugs that alter your mind so the choices you make while on drugs or alcohol are your responsibility.


Totally agree mate, each to their own if people want to take anything that's up to them.

That's good you don't touch a thing and don't drink either. I'm the same as you now that I have a family decided to not drink at all but have to admit to participating in a few banned substances in my younger days
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#80142 - 09/02/13 03:07 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
JTF Offline
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Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 110
Loc: United Kingdom of Great Britai...
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Quote:
I don't have any problems with people who do them


For me, I take issue with those that use them to self-medicate as a coping tool. These people are usually high-functioning dysfunctional. I call it Broken-doll Syndrome.


Broken doll syndrome ha ha brilliant. I would say they are fine to experiment with but they can get a right hold off you if you use them as u say as a coping method and I wouldn't recommend that.
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#81468 - 10/23/13 07:42 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: SIN3
For me, I take issue with those that use them to self-medicate as a coping tool. These people are usually high-functioning dysfunctional. I call it Broken-doll Syndrome.


Why? What concern is it of yours what a person wants to put in their body let alone the reason(s) why? If some dude who lives in Austria wants to shoot himself up with heroin on a daily basis because his life is shit, why should you care? Why give it any thought. Sounds like you are choosing to "take issue" with something that doesn't concern you. Forever begging the question: why?
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#81474 - 10/23/13 08:37 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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 Quote:

Why? What concern is it of yours what a person wants to put in their body let alone the reason(s) why? If some dude who lives in Austria wants to shoot himself up with heroin on a daily basis because his life is shit, why should you care? Why give it any thought. Sounds like you are choosing to "take issue" with something that doesn't concern you. Forever begging the question: why?


It concerns me when I have to deal with these people. The high-functioning is out in the work-force, in service jobs. Broken-dolls are survivors. Doesn't matter how much Spackle and glue is layered on to fill in the cracks, broken is broken.

Some guy in Austria doing whatever the hell doesn't concern me. If I were a habitual user of particular drugs, I might bitch about driving up the market-price. I'm not. Though, that asshole in Munich (high on who knows what) that licked the side of my face when I walked by...Yah, that shit concerns me.
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#81479 - 10/23/13 09:17 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Okay, so they are out in the workforce...so what? If the guy who delivers my pizza can't get through the day without smoking a joint, that's his concern. And wouldn't the person licking your face be an annoyance whether or not they did drugs? None of that explains why you take issue with "those that use them to self-medicate as a coping tool."
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#81485 - 10/23/13 10:32 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Sure it does. In my personal experience, those that self-medicate are just filling in cracks. That's not actual coping. That's where I take issue.
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#81490 - 10/24/13 03:49 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
 Quote:
In my personal experience, those that self-medicate are just filling in cracks.

The same could be said about people making "creepy dolls". Where addicts fill in their cracks through mind-altering experiences, others might seek out diversion by being "creative". Same cracks, different filling.
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#81501 - 10/24/13 12:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dimitri]
numen Offline
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Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
Others might try to fill their cracks by being clever on the internet or attempting to project a particular persona there. Then their obsession with "besting" a particular person gets in the way of their projection of awesomeness but they're too obsessed to see it. Same cracks, different filling.
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#81532 - 10/25/13 08:51 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: numen]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: numen
Others might try to fill their cracks by being clever on the internet or attempting to project a particular persona there. Then their obsession with "besting" a particular person gets in the way of their projection of awesomeness but they're too obsessed to see it. Same cracks, different filling.


Dimi is just down with the sickness \:\)
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#81550 - 10/25/13 07:52 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Assuming all drugs were legal I would say that it is not so much a matter of which drugs are acceptable and which ones are not, so much as one’s approach to their usage.

“Drugs” as commonly understood are incredibly powerful things and should be respected as such.

Funny, this sounds exactly like the advice given to people who wish to conjure demons. Maybe there’s a parallel if you’re into that sort of thing.

It is important to first educate yourself on the nature of the beast – they all have their perks and they all have their pit falls.

I see no reason to condemn a sincere psychonaught as an “LSD dropping loser”, yet in that same breath I would caution that person who simply takes a bunch of mushrooms “because it’s fun” to recognize that they are tampering with some very delicate circuitry. In either case, it can never be a permanent life-style... at least not a productive one.

It is important, regardless of the substance, not to be recklessly mindless consumers. A few binges here and there is par for the course, but still - try not to get lost in it.

Whatever the drug is be it caffeine or crack; understand what it does, how it works, and pay close attention to how it is affecting you during and after.

Some drugs produce powerful experiences. One cannot “unexperience” something – especially so powerful, so in a sense they become like brain tattoos.

Some tattoos are utterly amazing and some are shitty – in either case permanent.

Earlier in life I had a sort of square:

1) Addictive/Legal,
2) Addictive/Illegal
3) Non-addictive/Legal
4) Non-addictive/Illegal.

1) is ok in moderation – caffeine alchohol, etc… no biggy.
2) STAY AWAY! – crack, heroine, etc
3) I think we call those medicines… no biggy. i.e. Asprin
4) Tread with caution and respect – Hallucinogens and empathogens.


Regardless, the most important part is that regardless of the substance there comes a point wherein it is just not the same anymore… you’ve seen all it could possibly have to show you and the rest is up to you.

In a sense you outgrow it – at least I did. The memories and the times I had stuck and were valuable –priceless even, but there is more to life.

It is important to know when to end the conversation, don’t just stay on the phone after the other party has disconnected hoping there’s something more to be heard.

Besides in your youth it is always fun to attend a party and then go home to your comfy bed. It is those poor saps who stick it out that find when the sun rises they’re the few left cleaning up the mess while everyone else has moved on.

In that sense, I would be so bold as to contend that it is best to "get it out of your system" when you're young and both the mind and body are resilient.


Edited by antikarmatomic (10/25/13 07:57 PM)
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#81633 - 10/27/13 08:32 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
I see no reason to condemn a sincere psychonaught as an “LSD dropping loser”, yet in that same breath I would caution that person who simply takes a bunch of mushrooms “because it’s fun” to recognize that they are tampering with some very delicate circuitry. In either case, it can never be a permanent life-style... at least not a productive one.


I wasn't condemning the drugs, it's not about the drugs. The person using drugs to escape the underlying issue isn't actually escaping it. It's just a temporary mind-numb and once sober the issue is still there. Why not just deal with it?

Long-term use usually produces byproduct behaviors as well. Many of those behaviors are annoying.
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#81637 - 10/27/13 11:18 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Oh, nah – I wasn’t saying you were, just citing what seems to be a fairly common sentiment. I get where you're coming from, and agree so much so that all I can contribute to that is "yeap, what she said".

As for psychedelics personally I haven’t touched anything of that nature in many years.

Not that it was an “oh man I got stop doing this” type of deal, it just stopped being interesting. Nowadays I stick to my coffee and the occasional beers. Which, I guess isn't very interesting either, but still... it is what it is.

Funny you should mention byproduct behaviors; I haven’t heard it phrased that way before but I know *exactly* what you’re talking about. Not only is it annoying, but it is actually unsettling to observe – that such a small quantity of something can produce lasting changes in the psyche. It makes me want to just smack the person upside the head and tell them that behaving so erratically is no way to go about life.

For as “enlightened” as they believe themselves to be it is bewildering how that somehow compels them to lose all sense of circumspection – often times permanently. If not tragic, then certainly cringe worthy.


Edited by antikarmatomic (10/27/13 11:20 AM)
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#81638 - 10/27/13 11:33 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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 Quote:
but it is actually unsettling to observe – that such a small quantity of something can produce lasting changes in the psyche.


It is unsettling. There's a sort of alternate universe created, when they sober up (even if only in short bouts) it tends to shock the system. It's as if they walked into the Twillight Zone.
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#81639 - 10/27/13 12:24 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Indeed, and sure I’m supposedly satanic – law of the claw, folly’s doom is ruin - leave the weak to their own devices -all that jazz. Sure, I would say “mostly” I am – or at least that I acknowledge that this simply the way of things, but at the end of the day (online pretenses aside) I am human. I don’t see empathy as any sort of weakness, and with that just “yeah” it is incredibly unsettling and tragic to see a once normal and promising individual slip into delusion or even madness.

On the one hand I do understand that these synthetic experiences are incredibly powerful, but all too often the most important caveat is forgotten: that they are *subjective* ones. To go out into the world acting as if these experiences represent some great objective truth is typically where I often see even the most sensible of people going askew.

While I see the value in McKenna’s work I tend to temper that Thompson’s visceral wisdom:

"a generation of permenant cripples; failed seekers..."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU2dT43pLuQ


Edited by antikarmatomic (10/27/13 01:09 PM)
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#81706 - 10/29/13 12:16 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
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 Quote:
In my personal experience, those that self-medicate are just filling in cracks. That's not actual coping.


Again, why do you care? Do you work with users, trying to help them find ways that (in your eyes) will actually help them "cope"? If not, it seems like any issue you take with it is superficial and not worth the time to think about.
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#82605 - 11/23/13 04:44 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Etharzi Ors Offline
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Registered: 10/08/13
Posts: 65
Loc: Orange, Texas
The only things that I think matter when it comes to drugs is responsibility for your health and actions by not doing drugs too much or too often. I have years of experience with hard drugs and light, addiction and reliance, and I can't deny that any drug can give one physical, emotional and intellectual stimulation, but those things are anything other than beneficial without self-control.

My use of ecstasy changed my life and my mindset; I'd still be some hippie otherwise, but I got hooked and ended up overdosing 5 days after I started, giving me chronic heart problems. Another time I was using meth pills to help me get good grades in school, but I ended up going totally overboard, taking doses daily that would have killed grown adults. I still have heart problems from that, too. Even alcohol I had problems with alcohol, where i'd drink upward of 20 oz of vodka a day until my liver ached, but it was just for the sake of my social life (I truly can be a nihilistic apathetic bastard sometimes, but having alcohol available all the time hindered my ability to cope with my lack of social ability).

For me now I still smoke weed almost every day and drink on weekends, maybe on a rare occasion I'll even give hard stuff a go, but there isn't any significant consequence to that. When I'm busy with something I actually have a tendency to set alcohol and weed aside, which to me is a also a good sign that I understand my usage and am in control of it; balancing my use for the best overall experience in daily life and future health.
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#84475 - 01/25/14 05:38 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
CalvertBrown7 Offline
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Posts: 120
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It depends what you mean by "acceptable". I generally don't care what other people do with drugs, it doesn't bother me. Personally, given my family's addictive history, I will not do much of anything, if it weren't for that, I would probably stay away from things like cocaine, meth, heroin, and any drug that was not intended for recreational purposes.
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#86563 - 04/16/14 10:46 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CalvertBrown7]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
Casual pot use causes brain damage - Live Science

 Quote:
In the study, people who smoked marijuana about one to five times a week had changes in the size, shape and density of a brain region called the nucleus accumbens, compared with people who did not use the drug. The region was abnormally large, and denser in pot users — and the more joints a person smoked, the more pronounced these abnormalities were, the researchers said.


The report was released to leverage an argument that even causual use is 'harmful', yet the article goes on to say:

 Quote:
In addition, it's not clear whether these brain changes are harmful in people. The researchers are conducting studies to answer this question. Animal studies suggest that the kinds of brain changes seen in subjects in the study occur when people are in the process of becoming addicted, the researchers said.


Then this:

 Quote:
Researchers suspect that these new connections make other rewards in life — such as food, sex and social interaction — seem less satisfying, compared with the effects of the drug. The increased volume and density in the nucleus accumbens of study participants suggests that they may be forming new connections in that brain area.


Maybe these researchers should just I dunno... Smoke a Joint. Then Smoke Two More ...
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#86564 - 04/16/14 10:48 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Quote:
In my personal experience, those that self-medicate are just filling in cracks. That's not actual coping.


Again, why do you care? Do you work with users, trying to help them find ways that (in your eyes) will actually help them "cope"? If not, it seems like any issue you take with it is superficial and not worth the time to think about.


How are interpersonal relationships superficial? People that use it as a coping tool are broken disposable people that I quickly give a swift kick out of my life. Fuck those people.
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#86588 - 04/17/14 07:17 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
Adrian Savage Offline
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Registered: 07/26/12
Posts: 21
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
 Quote:
In my personal experience, those that self-medicate are just filling in cracks. That's not actual coping.


Again, why do you care? Do you work with users, trying to help them find ways that (in your eyes) will actually help them "cope"? If not, it seems like any issue you take with it is superficial and not worth the time to think about.


How are interpersonal relationships superficial? People that use it as a coping tool are broken disposable people that I quickly give a swift kick out of my life. Fuck those people.


My my, how moralistically righteous, Saint Jones.

Any excuse to feel superior I suppose.


Does this mean your nicotine addiction is finally kicked, or was that never a "coping tool"?
(Shhhh, she doesn't get it.)
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#86591 - 04/17/14 10:21 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
SIN3 Offline
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It has nothing to do with Morality and everything to do with the type of person I'm referring to (of which I have personal experience with).

Perhaps your own morals are showing, since you appear to believe I'm taking a moral stance on this.

Nicotine addiction? Please.
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#86593 - 04/17/14 11:41 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
Adrian Savage Offline
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Registered: 07/26/12
Posts: 21
*pats Alison on the head*

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
It has nothing to do with Morality and everything to do with the type of person I'm referring to (of which I have personal experience with).

And yet, your reference to "the type of person", "broken disposable people" and "Fuck those people" doesn't seem like a positive or neutral value judgment. Any monkey can overgeneralize from personal experience, would you like a medal?

A more intellectually honest approach would be: "I don't like them and choose not to interact". Yet what you do instead is quite telling: you take the approach of projecting your own Magian moral value judgments onto them ("everything to do with the type of person"), furthermore stating it as objective fact. Maybe it's just in your head? \:\)

It's patently clear that the less intellectually honest approach is taken to raise yourself up by moralistically downing another in condemning terms, to boost your own ego. Finger it off, as it were. All with a hearty dose of self-deception. Let's face it, you're as moralistic and pompous as Pat Robertson as he beats the living shit out of his pulpit. Homo Hubris? Yup.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Nicotine addiction? Please.

Of course, not only are the warnings about cancer bunk and some kind of conspiracy, you're totally in control when you keep sucking down those cancer sticks, stinking like a fucking ashtray, not a hypocrite at all and it's never a "coping tool". Totally in control. Keep telling yourself that. (LOL, cancer, geddit?) \:\)
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#86594 - 04/17/14 12:12 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Adrian Savage
*pats Alison on the head*


And yet, your reference to "the type of person", "broken disposable people" and "Fuck those people" doesn't seem like a positive or neutral value judgment.


As if this alone quantifies moral judgment? Are you kidding me? You must be, you can't be this daft.

 Quote:

Any monkey can overgeneralize from personal experience, would you like a medal?


Where did I over-generalize, I'm speaking of my personal experiences - so obviously to 'experience' these people, I'm open to engaging them. Otherwise, there would be no experiences to be had.

 Quote:

A more intellectually honest approach would be: ...


Oh, we're being intellectually honest here? Perhaps you should take your own advice and just say what's on your mind about me, rather than using this topic to leverage your criticism.


 Quote:

"I don't like them and choose not to interact".


Give me a break. Again, *personal experience* and *inter-personal relationships* I guess you need that dumbed down for ya?

 Quote:

Yet what you do instead is quite telling: you take the approach of projecting your own Magian moral value judgments onto them ("everything to do with the type of person"), furthermore stating it as objective fact. Maybe it's just in your head? \:\)


I actually haven't detailed what I *do*, I've provided a subtext to allow you to jump to conclusions, oops - watch out for those little slip ups. Mundanes... *sigh*

 Quote:


It's patently clear that the less intellectually honest approach is taken to raise yourself up by moralistically downing another in condemning terms, to boost your own ego. Finger it off, as it were. All with a hearty dose of self-deception. Let's face it, you're as moralistic and pompous as Pat Robertson as he beats the living shit out of his pulpit. Homo Hubris? Yup.



No, but I'll leave your obvious 'useful indicators' hanging out here in the open. Since we have no chance for a inter-personal relationship of our own, this is useful stuff. To those with a brain in their noggin'... Carry on.

 Quote:

Of course, not only are the warnings about cancer bunk and some kind of conspiracy, you're totally in control when you keep sucking down those cancer sticks, stinking like a fucking ashtray, not a hypocrite at all and it's never a "coping tool". Totally in control. Keep telling yourself that. (LOL, cancer, geddit?) \:\)


Now who is getting all Moralistic here? What do I use cigarettes to cope with again?


Now you're just conflating vs. supporting your case.


[yawn]
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#86598 - 04/17/14 06:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1857
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Of course, not only are the warnings about cancer bunk and some kind of conspiracy, you're totally in control when you keep sucking down those cancer sticks, stinking like a fucking ashtray, not a hypocrite at all and it's never a "coping tool".


Actually, it is bunk. My grandma smoked like a furnace and she's 93 years old now. My grandfather never smoked and died of lung cancer. Cancer is a mystery, we don't know a shit about it, but, of course, the so called experts find it hard to admit their own ignorance. The correlation between smoking and cancer is a myth. People who never smoked even one cigarette or were never exposed to nicotine die of cancer, not to mention animals. Scientists suspect cancer has its deep roots in evolution. These are the same ancient cells that play a part in embryonic development and then go dormant to be later awakened as cancer cells.

Here: Cancer can teach us about our evolution.

Cancer, it seems, is embedded in the basic machinery of life, a type of default state that can be triggered by some kind of insult. That suggests it is not a modern aberration but has deep evolutionary roots, a suspicion confirmed by the fact that it is not confined to humans but is widespread among mammals, fish, reptiles and even plants. Scientists have identified genes implicated in cancer that are thought to be hundreds of millions of years old. Clearly, we will fully understand cancer only in the context of biological history...

With the appearance of energised oxygen-guzzling cells, the way lay open for the second major transition relevant to cancer – the emergence of multicellular organisms. This required a drastic change in the basic logic of life. Single cells have one imperative – to go on replicating. In that sense, they are immortal. But in multicelled organisms, ordinary cells have outsourced their immortality to specialised germ cells – sperm and eggs – whose job is to carry genes into future generations. The price that the ordinary cells pay for this contract is death; most replicate for a while, but all are programmed to commit suicide when their use-by date is up, a process known as apoptosis. And apoptosis is also managed by mitochondria.

Cancer involves a breakdown of the covenant between germ cells and the rest. Malignant cells disable apoptosis and make a bid for their own immortality, forming tumours as they start to overpopulate their niches. In this sense, cancer has long been recognised as a throwback to a "selfish cell" era...

Evolution necessarily builds on earlier genomes. Sometimes older genetic pathways are not discarded, just silenced. Atavisms result when something disrupts the silencing mechanism...

We think that as cancer progresses in the body it reverses, in a speeded-up manner, the arrow of evolutionary time...

The most advanced and malignant cancers recreate aspects of life on Earth before a billion years ago...

In early-stage embryo development, when the basic body plan is laid down (also in low-oxygen conditions, incidentally) ancestral genes help guide developmental processes before being switched off. Every human, for example, possesses tails and gills for a time in the womb. Significantly, researchers have recently identified examples of early-stage embryonic genes being reawakened in cancer.


And it doesn't have to be a coping tool. The same is with drinking alcohol, taking drugs or stuffing yourself with food. People do these things for various reasons, sometimes to feel smart and cool, at times to feel more accepted by their peers or because they just love cigarettes, drugs, alcohol and food. Addiction can be a mere by-product of over-indulgence. It can be a coping mechanism helping you to deal with your emotional issues but it is not always so.

By the way, trolling can be such a coping mechanism. It is said trolls often have deep emotional problems. Trolling is often a way to cover up your own insecurity.
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#86600 - 04/17/14 08:35 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Sounds somewhat similar to governments - if "the people" (cells) are abused enough they revolt or at least break the implicit contract; and the causes vary.

<insert some long winded explanation regarding how Cancer is an umbrella-term, like schizophrenia and (maybe a passing mention to Wilhelm Reich) here>

Honestly, I don't think too much about "why" people do these things.

There's a whole shit-ton of things I used to do that in retrospect all had different reasons.

Some simply because it was fun, some simply because I thought it *would be* fun but then turned out to be redunkulously habit-forming, some because it was like an ongoing-soap-opera of internal discovery (yeah, "groovy"), some because it was kinda the "norm" within a peer group the effects of which I neither liked nor disliked.

I tend not to look at the causes; only the effects.

There are short-term effects and long-term effects. While the short-term effects are quite interesting, providing memories(or at least stories) that will last a lifetime, we ain't getting any younger so eventually you have to realize that when the conversation is over the next course of action is to hang-up the phone... sooner or later.

Sometimes that's not easy, but it is necessary.

Now, do I "judge" anyone or their character for using (or having used) drugs? Oh, fuck no! I also can't help them either, so I stay away til they figure it out. Most do; some don't.

For the most part it's "oh! you're on *that* trip... eh... have fun \:\) , we'll chat when you come back down"

For example - it's not as if I ever said to anyone "I can't talk to you *because* you get shit-faced" it's more like "I can't talk to you *when you are* shit-faced"

A minor inconvenience that is a symptom of a passing phase.


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/17/14 08:37 PM)
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#86602 - 04/17/14 11:19 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
On drug use vs. abuse - I will start by saying I don't buy into the 'allergy' argument espoused by 'recovery' groups. If you can't quit it's a reflection of a weak will, not a biochemical disposition. It's not a genetic abnormality, you're just a pussy. Sure quitting heroin hurts, but that's what you paid for. If you can't quit you are better off dead anyway.


That said it's actually easier to list what I haven't done. Looking back my favorites were amphetamines, and hallucinogens. LSD, mescaline, and mushrooms to be specific. Yet there comes a point when it just gets boring, and you grow out of it, or in the case of amphetamines get tired of thinking there are cops following you everywhere.


Edited by CanisMachina42 (04/17/14 11:28 PM)

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#86603 - 04/18/14 12:04 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
Yet there comes a point when it just gets boring
's what I mean.. like who am I to quit smoking for like 3 years and snub my nose at smokers? I've been there, and yeah it sucks to come out of but no amount of rhetoric is going to help them - if anything it just adds to the pressure.

Without getting too explicit, everything you've mentioned is basically what I assume most of us (including me) weirdOs have at least tried (whether we admit it or not) and there's some good residuals and some not not-so-good.

It's a phase, and, as (hat's off to) you said - it tends to get old... pretty quick - that's all there is too it.

It's an amoral anomaly - like all the other weird shit children do or have done... nothing more, nothing less.



drugs are sorta like brain tattoos - when they're done, they're just done. 'not a fuck-ton you can really do or say or condemn a person about it.


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/18/14 12:27 AM)
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#86606 - 04/18/14 10:13 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Czereda]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
The correlation between smoking and cancer is a myth.


Reminds me of the myth of women with shaved heads either have cancer or will catch cancer.

Pretty funny stuff actually. Since I shaved it over a year ago, that seems to be the common insult - that I have cancer. Even if some of these folks wished cancer on me, haven't caught the stuff. They may want to up their mojo, shit is weaksauce.

My Great-Grandmother never smoked, and had a healthy life style, yet she died of Breast Cancer in her 90's. Go figure.

 Quote:
it is not yet known exactly how some of these risk factors cause cells to become cancerous. Hormones seem to play a role in many cases of breast cancer, but just how this happens is not fully understood.


In spite of all the research, there's too many variables that play a role in developing a cancer to pin-point it to any one thing.

I did have skin cancer a few years back. It was the weirdest thing. A small mark on my leg (no bigger than a bug-bite) quickly became blood red, sort of like a blood blister. It was enough for me to get it checked out. By the time I had the biopsy it was about the size of a nickle. The doc said, had I not come in when I did, it would have been eating down into the muscle and heading for bone-marrow. It was surgically removed and has never resurfaced. The cause? At best, it was an educated guess. It was explained to me that it *could* have been a minor scratch and the body healed over it rather than forcing it to the top of the epidermis (forming a scab) but that she didn't know for certain. It *could* have also been sun exposure, or neither of these. It was just one of those fluke things.
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#86609 - 04/18/14 05:43 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1857
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Reminds me of the myth of women with shaved heads either have cancer or will catch cancer.

Pretty funny stuff actually. Since I shaved it over a year ago, that seems to be the common insult - that I have cancer.


I think it has more to do with cultural norms. It's unusual for women to shave their heads. It's more common for men. If people see a bald guy, they rarely suspect him of having cancer. If they see a woman with a shaved head, the first reaction would be: "Poor woman. She must have cancer." What could be another reason for doing away with your beautiful hair? Feeling cool? It is something that perplexes people. Everything that goes against cultural norms is often misunderstood and considered weird.
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#86612 - 04/18/14 09:33 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
Adrian Savage Offline
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Registered: 07/26/12
Posts: 21
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
Since we have no chance for a inter-personal relationship of our own, this is useful stuff. To those with a brain in their noggin'... Carry on.

The relevant datum here being: all inter-personal relationships to yourself are expendable, not confined to those with addicts, as per your evident PD. While there is a temptation to pity those so beguiled, there is one born every minute.

 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I did have skin cancer a few years back. It was the weirdest thing. A small mark on my leg (no bigger than a bug-bite) quickly became blood red, sort of like a blood blister. It was enough for me to get it checked out. By the time I had the biopsy it was about the size of a nickle. The doc said, had I not come in when I did, it would have been eating down into the muscle and heading for bone-marrow. It was surgically removed and has never resurfaced.

Yak yak yak. [yawn]

That doc was a dick. A Utilitarian standpoint would have demanded he let nature take its course. Said intervention was a public disservice.
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#86616 - 04/19/14 08:10 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Czereda]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Czereda
The correlation between smoking and cancer is a myth. People who never smoked even one cigarette or were never exposed to nicotine die of cancer, not to mention animals. Scientists suspect cancer has its deep roots in evolution. These are the same ancient cells that play a part in embryonic development and then go dormant to be later awakened as cancer cells.

The mountain of scientific studies refuting your claim that the correlation between smoking and cancer is a myth is, of course, pretty overwhelming. What scientific studies (not funded by cigarette companies) have you read that support your claim?

Anecdotal evidence will not suffice. There are lots of people like your grandmother who smoke and live a long life and your grandfather who never smoked and died of lung cancer (although secondhand smoke from grandma could’ve played a role). Science does not suggest that everyone who smokes will die of cancer, only that smoking increases the risk of dying of cancer.

The website you provided did not directly argue against the link between smoking and cancer, but simply stated that there is still much to be learned about cancer and that cancer has a genetic component.

 Originally Posted By: Czereda
Cancer, it seems, is embedded in the basic machinery of life, a type of default state that can be triggered by some kind of insult.

One of those “insults,” research shows, is smoking.
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#86617 - 04/19/14 08:50 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
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 Quote:
The relevant datum here being: all inter-personal relationships to yourself are expendable, not confined to those with addicts, as per your evident PD


Oh, so now it's 'all' not limited to 'addicts' as you say?

Yah ok, sure this is about me. Do go on, tell me moar about your Morality.
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#86618 - 04/19/14 09:02 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
Does smoking increase the risk of cancer? It does with the help of fuzzy math and logic.

Consider...

In 1965 75% of the population were either current or former smokers. It is that age group which these studies are based off of.

Cancer that can be attributed to smoking (in this age group) affects about 50% of the population (with lung cancer accounting for 8%).

Now what is the likelihood that any one of the 75% will contract cancer? Pretty damn good. It really doesn't matter if it is actually the cause, if the end result is cancer the cause will be smoking. The numbers are INFLATED by statistical probability.

Mind you, the probability of getting cancer has not changed, but the number of smokers has plummeted to around 35%. Yet, they are younger, and have not yet reached the age when most cancer develops. Statistics now work the other way. "See, the rate of cancer has fallen." When in reality the only thing that has fallen is the number of cases attributed to smoking, and the median age of the "data" being used.

Wait 20 years and see where cancer rates are...

signed,
Tobacco company apologist

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#86621 - 04/19/14 10:17 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
William Wright Offline
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
Speaking of statistics, here's one from cancer.org:

Women smokers are 25.7 times more likely than women who never smoked to develop lung cancer. For men smokers, it’s 25 times the risk of men who never smoked. (Source: US Surgeon General Report 2014)

Doesn't sound very fuzzy to me.
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#86623 - 04/19/14 10:57 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1164
Loc: San Diego, CA
I argue "detection bias" is at play. I give you this excerpt every bit as credible as The Surgeon General done at Yale in 1986.

 Quote:
Researchers at Yale obtained records on 3,286 adults who had died between 1971 and 1982. 153 of these patients were found, upon autopsy, to have died of lung cancer. The researchers then went back and obtained the death certificates for these 153 patients and attempted to obtain information about their smoking habits. For 13 patients, adequate smoking information was not available, so they were thrown out of the survey. The researchers reported, however, that out of these 13 patients, seven had been correctly diagnosed as having lung cancer during life, but 6 had not.

Working with the remaining 140 cases, it turned out that there were 37 "surprise" cases of lung cancer, i.e., cases which had not been correctly diagnosed during life. 57% of these cases involved non-smokers; 30% involved moderate smokers; but only 16% involved heavy smokers. The researchers concluded that there was a detection bias; that doctors were very ready to diagnose lung cancer in a smoker; very reluctant to make the diagnosis in a non-smoker.


With all those surprise cases make you wonder if the 25 times as likely is not exaggerated a bit.

This study concludes similar findings more recently.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11306342

I have to concede risk does go up, but not at the rate it has been purported, and the likelihood of developing lung cancer is minimal in comparison to others. Though cancer can be linked to smoking the risk is negligible. Assuming my previous statistics around 3% (of all cancer cases).

Hard point to argue.


Edited by CanisMachina42 (04/19/14 11:22 AM)

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#86628 - 04/19/14 11:10 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Well, right but I think the whole "smoking causes cancer" tangent is sorta missing the point.

'point is this habit *definitely* ain't good for your lungs - whether or not it causes cancer in them is pretty much moot. Even if evolutionary arguments can be made, that's fine, too! At the very least we can agree it ain't good for your wallet.

I don't think it matters what the studies say with regards to this or that - simple common sense will prevail that it is simply non-value-added. Sometimes that's all ya need to know.

No doubt, I'm not preaching from atop of an ivory-tower - it definitely sucks and is NOT easy to quit, but I figure "fuck what the studies say; how is this helping me?" - I think that's enough to consider to draw a conclusion.
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#86635 - 04/21/14 10:16 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
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 Quote:
'point is this habit *definitely* ain't good for your lungs


This argument would also include pot-smokers. So would this be a moral judgment, that it's just 'wrong' and 'stupid' to do this to your body voluntarily?

In the case of non-smokers and cancer statistics, you also have to look at the environmental data.

If a person chooses a career in a particular industrial field or chooses to voluntarily live in an area known for pollution, wouldn't the same logic apply?

This POLL appeared in today's newsfeed.

 Quote:
Widespread belief that smoking causes cancer "has come about because of very public, very focused public health campaigns," AAAS's Leshner said. A former acting director of the National Institute of Mental Health, Leshner said he was encouraged by the public's acceptance that mental illness is a brain disease, something few believed 25 years ago, before just such a campaign.

That gives Leiserowitz hope for a greater public acceptance of climate change. But he fears it may be too late to do anything about it.
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#86636 - 04/21/14 12:29 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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well yes, of course this also applies to pot smokers. As for it being a moral judgment hmmm that all depends on how loosely you want to apply the word "moral" (I personally don't judge a person for what they choose to do their own body) - I tend to look at it more like "how useful is this really *to me*?" and would advise others to consider asking themselves the same... or not... its your life.
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#86637 - 04/21/14 01:37 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
As for it being a moral judgment hmmm that all depends on how loosely you want to apply the word "moral"


As in 'Satanic Morality', the normative sense some cling to. It's pretty common among CoSr's that look down their nose at others that smoke/drink/use-drugs. That whole 'My body is a Temple' thing.
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#86638 - 04/21/14 01:58 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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oh, that. well, they also say "indulgence not compulsion" so *shrugs* who knows. I'm not exactly toe-ing their party-line, anyway. Basically I'm speaking as a human being from the angle of pragmatism - pretty non-judgmental since its not as if I've never done it (smoked... almost two packs a day at one point).
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#86640 - 04/21/14 07:19 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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I'm thinking "value-judgment"(?) would be a better term as opposed to a "moral-judgment" at least in the sense that a value-judgment encompasses *usefulness*. In that light, sure, I'd concede it to be a value-judgment. Putting a moral spin on this sort of thing is just plain silly.

The key, though, is that it is a *personal* value-judgment. People go through stages, and phases that have literally nothing at all to do with what I think or say.

Consider, say, hallucinogens - once upon a time I absolutely loved them. "This shit right here will change your life"... but after a few years I got (as mentioned before) kinda bored of it. "Oh wait, this is kinda stupid".

Now a days I'll run into some whipper snapper who's just discovering them and I kinda cringe at their offy-ness that basically screams "I spend a lot of time in my dark room with the black light on playing with glow sticks" - but well, they'll figure it out eventually.

"Let them die of their own stupidity" is chest-thumping.

The reality is that some drug use is basically indifferent.

People do it, go through that phase, get it out of their system, get bored of it and go on to become DRs, lawyers, consultants, programmers, technicians, etc - no worse for the wear. In fact possibly better for it since they can speak to it directly and advise where appropriate - something along the lines of Chiron.


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/21/14 07:36 PM)
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#86641 - 04/21/14 07:39 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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Playing Devil's Advocate here:

 Quote:
a lesson, esp. one concerning what is right or prudent, that can be derived from a story, a piece of information, or an experience.
"the moral of this story ..."



One could argue that was is 'valuable' is right as opposed to what is devalued as 'wrong', etc. - 'Satanic Morality' vis a vis, Rules of the Earth, Satanic 'Sins', etc. That oh so beloved dogma that so many people need.


 Quote:
The key, though, is that it is a *personal* value-judgment. People go through stages, and phases that have literally nothing at all to do with what I think or say.

What's the difference?

Plenty just parrot off this stuff. Where's the personal value judgment in that?

Finding it 'boring' after a while, could just be "The moral of this story is, drugs are boring...mkay?"
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#86642 - 04/21/14 07:51 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
What's the difference?


Just that it's not for me to judge

The judgment applies only as it concerns *my* evaluation of the things *I* do. That is its scope.

Whatever anyone else does "'s all you, man - you'll figure it out"

I have no opinion of anyone else' drug usage; only of my own. All I care to do is share anecdotes.


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/21/14 07:51 PM)
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#86648 - 04/22/14 10:29 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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Why not? I think observing others can be useful in determining what is valuable to each of us. For example, you can observe a person totally destroying their lives and cast a value judgment on that, right?

Take Meth for example. Never once have I had the desire to even try it. I see what it does to people. Granted, the addictive behavior plays a big role in that but ffs, it just looks gross.



When I was young, an aunt of mine had a very close friend who was just gorgeous. She could have been a super-model, that's how beautiful she was. Flash-forward to my 20's, girl did't even look like the same person. In all her Meth use, it also included a few fights that broke her nose a few times. She looked like an Ogre from Shrek - that's how bad. It's the extreme end but I can certainly judge that her decisions were just horrid and she's definitely paying the price for them.
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#86653 - 04/22/14 02:19 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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I suppose for some, self-aggrandizement, constant self-promotion and the desire for attention can take on a drug-like quality. It's the seeking of attention, that fix of narcissistic supply, from a vain and conceited standpoint.

Common tell-tale signs being dominating Internet message boards (frequently being #1 poster), excessive use of self-promoting banners, self-identifying as a kind of cult leader or guru, whoring for attention (good or bad), a double-dealing MO with little loyalty, and exhibiting a snotty superiority complex. Such tends to reveal an addiction to narcissistic supply, and is a revealing red flag, more so than someone using a bit of dope as a crutch. I surely ain't impressed.


As for actual drugs though, tobacco is right up there with cocaine and opiates in terms of addictive potential, as this graph illustrates:



Never trust a regular smoker who claims they aren't hooked. Arrogance usually works against insight, but the fact is they are likely as out of control as a car with damaged brakes. Furthermore, it does suggest weakness of will, and therefore if negative value judgments are to be made against those who use drugs as a crutch, due to both addiction and stupid self-harm, it would be inconsistent special pleading to let nicotine junkies off the hook.

Smoking is also associated with lower socioeconomic class. Not to mention the aesthetically unpleasing aspects of stinking like a fucking ashtray. For a parent to smoke also suggests poor parenting if they expose their offspring to their fumes with the resulting health issues, and/or smoke while pregnant, and either way reducing their own life expectancy isn't in their kids' best interests. Also betraying a lack of being in control, unless they genuinely hate their kids.

Fill in the value judgments as you may.
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#86654 - 04/22/14 02:33 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
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All SIN trolling aside I would just like to ask who the fuck made that graph? It's like something from 1980's DARE propaganda.

As someone who has done pretty much every drug on that graph I am calling bullshit.

LSD is not addictive, and only causes self inflicted "head full of acid" harm.
Pot is not equally as harmful as ecstasy, or worse for you than steroids. Its placement is laughable.
Coke is not more addicting than cigarettes, or several others on that list.

I could go on, but about the only thing they have right is Heroin.


Edited by CanisMachina42 (04/22/14 02:42 PM)

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#86656 - 04/22/14 03:01 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
Adrian Savage Offline
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Interesting how the above anecdotal evidence would question nicotine being less addicting than cocaine.

Also:



Since Satanism is meant to be a life-loving and rational philosophy, I do wonder how the above kind of out-of-control self-destruction can fit into it.

From this perspective, another side-effect of smoking (when not done solo) is that it forces people to witness stupidity and lack of self-control. Alas, the latter can be subtly psychologically contagious and fuck with one's own self-efficacy. Another reason to shun the coffin nail suckers.
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#86665 - 04/22/14 05:37 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
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 Originally Posted By: Adrian Savage
It's the seeking of attention, that fix of narcissistic supply, from a vain and conceited standpoint.


You'd know first hand wouldn't you? I mean, it's not as if you don't want my attention. Care for a demonstration of my self-professed Narcissism? You must, I mean you've been riding my infamy all day, literally.

It's called 'shameless self-promotion' for the lack of SHAME. I suppose every time I post on a forum I'm promoting myself, ok? You mad bro?

 Quote:

Common tell-tale signs being dominating Internet message boards


How telling indeed. Do you feel Dominated? Do you fantasize about my dominance? *snark* Seriously dude, do you have no sense of pride? I almost feel embarrassed for you. Almost...

 Quote:
I surely ain't impressed.


Obviously ;\)

 Quote:




Fill in the value judgments as you may.


Oh, I'm pretty sure readers of this forum have already cast their judgments, my inbox has been all a buzz today.

Carry-on...
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#86676 - 04/22/14 07:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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on a lighter note:

 Quote:
Take Meth for example. Never once have I had the desire to even try it. I see what it does to people. Granted, the addictive behavior plays a big role in that but ffs, it just looks gross.


I glanced at this reply on my phone earlier this morning and I swear I read it as "Take *Math* for example"... I didn't get to finish reading it, so I ended up spending my commute pondering

"what could be so gross about math "

A re-read makes a lot more sense, and well... sure everything has its downside.

The thing about meth isn't so much "ewww that's what it does to people - I don't want to end up like that" it's more along the lines of "I don't want to try anything that would have such a hold on me that I simply wouldn't care if I *did* like that"

I don't think drug users are inherently weak or the scum of the earth. It's more like jumping into a hole that is much harder to get out of than anticipated.

Personally, I know there's some holes ya' don't go jumping into. This could be caution; this could be cowardice.

No point in judging the whys or wherefores.

If anything those who can land themselves full-on in the midst of an addiction only to eventually triumph over it might full-well be stronger than I.

I figure to each their own - it's nothing I'd do, but as long as they eventually sort things out: (and this is hokey, I know)

"The only difference between the saint and the sinner is that every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future"... or not... it's really for the other to figure out. None of my business.
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#86677 - 04/22/14 08:01 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
William Wright Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Adrian Savage
Since Satanism is meant to be a life-loving and rational philosophy, I do wonder how the above kind of out-of-control self-destruction can fit into it.

This, I would say, is the dilemma of Satanism: espousing the freedom of hedonism and the self-control of sobriety.
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#86679 - 04/22/14 08:18 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
As someone who has done pretty much every drug on that graph I am calling bullshit.


The graph does seem "off", primarily because alcohol should definitely rank above Nicotine and Cocaine in terms of Dependence.

Alcohol withdrawal can be fatal. No one's ever died from ceasing to use nicotine (lol "use Nicotine") or Cocaine or Heroine. Methadone withdrawal can be fatal too so I'd expect to see Alcohol and Methadone pretty much neck and neck in terms of dependency.

Not to mention I'd expect to see a lot of these data-points at 0 in terms of dependency; actually most of them.

It's as if someone went in and said "we don't want to give kids the wrong idea, so add a +1 vertical shift - fuck it, it's all relative amiright?"
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#86700 - 04/23/14 09:25 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Adrian Savage Offline
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
Not to mention I'd expect to see a lot of these data-points at 0 in terms of dependency; actually most of them.

As someone with a close family member who ruined his life due to dependent over-consumption of cannabis since his early teens, and is on the verge of suicide as a result, I am personally quite reluctant to uncritically buy into the popular dogma that said drug is both harmless and has no potential for inducing dependency.

If pot has no dependence potential, do explain this section of this psychology forum. It seems rife with people having serious problems with that drug. Simply blaming the individuals involved does seem overly simplistic.

Note that this isn't an argument for legal cannabis/marijuana prohibition since legal drugs (alcohol, tobacco, etc.) often carry comparable risks, and the law has proven an ineffective (and overly blunt) instrument. It's merely an intellectually honest look at the actual harm involved to challenge dogmatic pro-pot notions I've seen rampant on the Internet among those who suck down "da chronic".

Warning: Serious risk of cognitive dissonance ahead as deeply cherished beliefs clash with reality. Stand by for fireworks...
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#86704 - 04/23/14 10:33 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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 Quote:
I don't think drug users are inherently weak or the scum of the earth. It's more like jumping into a hole that is much harder to get out of than anticipated.

Personally, I know there's some holes ya' don't go jumping into. This could be caution; this could be cowardice.


Don't get me wrong, I've met my fair share of casual users that don't go down that rabbit hole. Same for social smokers. I tend to believe that the addictive behavior and results go hand and hand. As for my personal use of tobacco, I just enjoy it. It's not the Nicotine, it's the behavior. I've been smoking on and off since I was a kid. Quitting is no big deal, I think the majority of the anchor to it is psychological. We are creatures of habit.

Is there a fear element to not trying Meth? I'm not so sure about that. I don't think I fear ending up like that, I just don't get the allure of it. The value judgement comment I made previously was more so about the judging part vs. the judgment made. Why are people always saying they don't judge, when clearly they do? It's somehow become socially unacceptable to be judgmental. It's obviously in our nature. Thousands year old texts lend evidence to that, don't you think? Yet, in spite of all that 'advice' our nature hasn't changed much as far as I can tell.

There's a certain type of person that thinks they can only have a good time if they're inebriated. I don't mind getting a little buzz now and again but I favor having my scruples in tact. I can have a good time sober and often times inebriation infringes upon that good time. I can drink a glass of wine or two and not feel compelled to finish the whole bottle in one sitting because I want to get 'drunk'. Drunk is never my goal, in most cases when I achieved it, it was a miscalculation on my part. The drinks tasted good, so I had one too many. Drunk doesn't particularly feel good to me. As for 'drugs', I did my experimentation when I was a teen, I outgrew it.

I'm going to a concert in a couple of weeks. My social party is excited about the shrooms in accompaniment. To me, it would take away from the concert if I partake, so I'll pass. That's what I consider a value judgment.
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#86705 - 04/23/14 10:47 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
If pot has no dependence potential


The potential is definitely there but I think there's a few variables in place that reap the particular effects you witness in your friend.

A person can latch on to anything and it be their un-doing. Such as the woman addicted to iced-tea that she drank so much of it and it nearly killed her. In recent medical reports, over consumption can cause anything from kidney stones to skeletal fluorosis (from the fluoride).

Apparently, she had been drinking a pitcher a day. That's a lot of tea. Even when her teeth started falling out, she thought nothing of it. It wasn't until she started suffering severe pain in her back that she saw a doctor. Creature of habit, that one.

The Libertine movement fell out of favor for the same reasons. Degradation due to specific behaviors.
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#86743 - 04/23/14 08:16 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Adrian Savage]
antikarmatomic Offline
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I hear ya', and indeed some people do become rather psychologically dependent on the reefers - a rare few, but its far more common than we might think. I personally used to be all about it in my teens - early 20s, but then one day it was sorta "blah this pretty boring".

Some people are not so wired.

Conversely I know of a surprising number of people who've tried crack once and said "meh, it kinda sucked, I'll never try it again".

Or, consider ecstasy - that stuff is an absolute BLAST the first few times. After having some experience with the "Tuesday Blues" one starts to question how "worth it" it really is. Of course there are always those outliers - the kids who pop like 9(!) pills in the course of one night, and those who get severe anxiety after only taking 1/2.

I wouldn't necessarily blame nor praise the individual - it's just that certain drugs effect certain people differently and brain chemistry changes over time.

Preexisting mental conditions also tend to muddy the waters a bit. There are mean drunks, and there are giggly drunks, and I think a lot of that has to do with what function their inhibitions serve in the personality.

It's important to note that in *most cases* the very active ingredient in these substances are derivatives of alkaloids (amines) - nature's pesticides. This is not a judgment so much as a fact to consider, and an interesting on at that.


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/23/14 08:18 PM)
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#86761 - 04/24/14 10:31 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
y.

It's important to note that in *most cases* the very active ingredient in these substances are derivatives of alkaloids (amines) - nature's pesticides. This is not a judgment so much as a fact to consider, and an interesting on at that.


Good point on Alkaloids . In 'drug culture' there's also an assumed usage variance when participating in other activities. For example, I was gifted a few books for my birthday last year on trance. As a transcendentalist, People often assume I use drugs when trancing out. I don't. Both books were heavy on the use of hallucinogens such as Datura and E to enhance the experience. For me, anything beyond a glass or two of wine ruins it.

Interesting study none-the-less, some Alkaloids can be used medicinally to treat some conditions, so they do have some health benefits.
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#86772 - 04/24/14 01:16 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
Both books were heavy on the use of hallucinogens such as Datura and E to enhance the experience


I stay the fuck away from Datura. There is a reason they call it "Loco weed" (Jimson Weed). Shit used to grow naturally in the Arizona desert. it can put you in another world, but can also dehydrate you to near death.

There is something to be said for Entheogens though, You can really focus your mind on a single subject, and keep it there. There are schools of chaos magic that swear by it. I use mescaline for this sort of introspective guidance. It's an enema for the brain.

Though I hear sensory deprivation can also elicit similar results.

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#86775 - 04/24/14 01:26 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
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I've heard it called the ' Devil's Weed too. An associate of mine claims the effects are sort of like huffing paint. As if that made it more appealing.
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#86780 - 04/24/14 04:05 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Hmmm... I had no idea Datura and Jimson Weed were the same thing. This is interesting because Jimson Weed was always a huge "no-no, don't try that" whereas Datura, in my mind, was always something like "Well, why not? McKenna wrote a fair amount about it".

This raises a "neat point" does anyone *really* know what they are taking?

Along those lines, I remember one night some 6-7 years ago I had a huge hankering for some pot but my connects were dry. I had heard that there was this "incense" called salvia being sold around sex shops and gas-stations. Apparently it came in various levels of potency.

I figured that since it was legal it must be like a very weak pot-like-substitute, so naturally I opted for the 40x.

Got back to my apt, broke out the ol' bong ("Mirabelle" - you're supposed to name these sorta things) hopped on the bed with my fiance-at-the-time, packed it up, took the biggest hit I could and held it in as long as I possibly could - maybe this *might* work...

...

exhale...

pass the bong... wait... HOLY-SHIT! While being sucked into this completely unexpected vortex I find myself trying to warn her "wait! no!" but all that comes out is glossolalia.

Angelic harlequins, memories of being child, something about the Great Space Coaster (ever seen that show?)


*that guy ^

, being in two places at once (not in a parallel universe, but more like a perpendicular one and stuck at a 45 degree angle), coupled with a true sense of terror because there were other things that, like a bad dream, not all the details are retained.

It felt like days but only lasted 5 mins if that.

Exciting as fuck, no doubt, but just TOO much - and I've done your standard hallucinogens literally more times than I can count.

This shit takes the cake.

One of those things I'd say "don't do it... well, do it... but be advised I don't recommend it"

Strangely some people absolutely LOVE it. "what are you talking about? it makes me giggle" or "meh, I didn't feel anything"... not me though, it knocks me right the fuck on my ass into some place that simply isn't "fun".


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/24/14 04:08 PM)
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#86781 - 04/24/14 04:17 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
This raises a "neat point" does anyone *really* know what they are taking?


I've tried 'Spice' (I like that actually) and tried Salvia a few times with no effects. How do you verify it's Salvia anyway? I told my associate I thought he'd been had, it just looked like a grayish/greenish shake-like substance. I was joking that we were probably smoking Rat Poison and if we dropped dead, we'd probably deserve it for being experimental goons.


It looked sort of like this, but ground to a finer grade:
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#86784 - 04/24/14 04:33 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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That looks about right.

The thing about Salvia is that it doesn't quite "work" like say, pot, or a cigarette.

1) It is best suited for a bong (I supposed a bowl might work) - if you're rolling a joint of it then not much is going to happen.

2) You have to keep the flame on it while inhaling - a cherry just won't do it - 'has to do with sublimation temperature of the active compound.

3) Hold that hit in as long as possible.

Or, just be thankful it didn't work - when it does throws you for a loop... some people dig it... me... eh... not so much.

Interesting as all hell, but definitely not fun.


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/24/14 04:34 PM)
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#86785 - 04/24/14 04:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Motherfuck, that clown thing can cause nightmares sober.

Never had an urge to do salvia. Heard its trips described to varying degrees of derangement, and long ago relegated it to the category of bath salts. Too shitty an experience to want to try firsthand.

I have had a "why the fuck wont this horror end" trip before though. We had the brilliant idea to "milk" a Colorado River Toad for its venom. We had read its active constituent was 5MeO-DMT online.

So we caught one, squeezed the venom out of its leg (gland), dried it, and smoked it. There was an absolute loss of control of what was happening accompanied by a strong anxiety of your impending death. Nothing like its DMT counterparts. That's my cautionary tale/drug story.

Say no to toad venom. \:D

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#86788 - 04/24/14 05:23 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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There was a sort of ritual to the whole thing. Much like you described, still - nada. After a few times I just lost interest. I did see a few video clips on youtube of folks trying it for the first time (capturing the event). Everything from a total freak-out to just your basic run of the mill 'high'.
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#86790 - 04/24/14 05:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Quote:
Motherfuck, that clown thing can cause nightmares sober.


I know, right? I completely forget that I even used to watch that show until in that vortex. It has this uncanny way of bringing up memories from waaaaaay back - I had to have been like 4 or 5 when I last saw it... kinda makes me wonder who in their right mind would give this the green-light as a children's show.

Mind you it's not "quite" like bath salts in that mobility is pretty much 'nixed - it totally screws with your equilibrium.

It generally makes it feel like whatever you're sitting on is pulling you into it like a sort of "gravity" which is just as well; trying to walk (much less eat people's faces off) is about as fruitful a venture as trying to fuck with whiskey dick. *not sure if that makes it somehow "safer".

The anxiety is often a very real thing, though - probably along the lines of toad venom - there's "fun" and there's just plain "crazy"

Adrenocrhome :p

"Satanism freak [...] they nailed this guy for child molesting - he swore he didn't do it 'why should I fuck with children' he said 'they're too small'"


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/24/14 05:37 PM)
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#86791 - 04/24/14 05:40 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Hmmm... guess it goes to show, some drugs just effect people differently. Still, you're not missing out on much - just one huge WTF!?!? that doesn't really amount to much else ;\)
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#86792 - 04/24/14 05:48 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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That's what I figure, hence I just lost interest. Can you imagine the metric ton of input stored in your brain? It's no wonder The Great Space Coaster creeped out. Age check!
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#86793 - 04/24/14 05:59 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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LOL holy shit! Ear-to-ear grin, what the shit were people thinking back then? The late 70s must've been one hell of a time as clearly demonstrated by the confused mess the early 80s seems to have been :P

Edited by antikarmatomic (04/24/14 06:02 PM)
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#86852 - 04/26/14 07:32 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
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In The Humanist - March/April 2013 there is an interesting article on Prohibition. It covers drug-use as a cultural tradition that pre-dates civilization.

 Quote:
Archaeologists have uncovered widespread evidence of drug consumption in ancient communities across the globe. The oldest evidence of beer consumption dates back to around 5000 BCE in what is now Iran, while wine consumption goes back further to about 6000 BCE. The consumption of the betel nut, the fourth-most used drug in the world after nicotine, and caffeine dates back to 13,000 years ago in Timor, and 10,700 years ago in Thailand. Coca was domesticated in the western Andes close to 7000 years ago, and the consumption of tobacco in the Americas, pituri in Australia, and khat in Eastern Africa already represented ancient practices when Europeans colonists first made contact, perhaps dating back 40,000 years or more. Most Anthropologists agree that human drug consumption predates human civilization.


It goes on to present an evolutionary factor in mammalian brains that involve evolved receptor systems for plant substances such as opioids. The human body accommodates these substances and even has fail-safes in place to prevent over-dose (vomiting reflexes and metabolic mechanisms).

The social stigma is a byproduct of civilization. In spite of it, humans still consume drugs. One theory (Savanna-IQ Interaction Hypothesis, Satoshi Kanazawa)states that the human brain has difficulty dealing with entities and situations that didn't exist in ancestral environment with the theory of evolution of general intelligence, which suggests that general intelligence evolved as a psychological adaptation to solve evolutionary novel problems.

Within the hypothesis, it predicts that individuals of higher intelligence are more likely to engage in novel behavior that goes against cultural traditions and social norms. A 40 year-long study (funded by the British government) parallelled this hypothesis and found that IQ's above 125 were twice as likely to have tried psychoactive drugs when compared to IQ's of 75 and below.

Evolutionary Psychologists believe that we're hard-wired for it and inclined towards experimentation, which is why more scientific research is being conducted in relation to laws that enforce Prohibition as well as the punishments for being, well... Human.
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#86871 - 04/26/14 11:43 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
which is why more scientific research is being conducted in relation to laws that enforce Prohibition as well as the punishments for being, well... Human.


The stigma, and societal pressures are in place for the long haul. Though use is hard-wired, it's going to take some monumental steps to remove the "demonization" of drug use. Even more to separate moral judgment, the "think of the children" excuse.

Case study: Portugal.

Decriminalization seems to work. Use, overdose, and HIV infection have all fallen (as well as price) in the years since penalties for personal drug possession were reduced to minimal fines, and "treatment".

The following is the allowable amount of each of the following drugs...

25 g Cannabis (herb)
5 g Hashish
2.5 g Cannabis Oil
0.5 g Pure THC
500 µg LSD
1 g MDMA
2 g Cocaine (Hydrochloride)
0.3 g Cocaine (Benzoylecgonine)
1 g Heroin
1 g Methadone
2 g Morphine
10 g Opium
1 g Amphetamine
0.1 g PCP

Good luck getting that to catch on in the US. There's just too much money to be made off of prosecution, and too much challenge from alcohol, tobacco, and pharmaceutical lobbies. Mexico tried it, and was summarily threatened by the US if they went through with it.

As far as regulated dispensaries go the tax revenue seems to take a back seat to private interest.

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#86872 - 04/26/14 11:54 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
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True... VERY true... but you'd think we could tax the shit out of it - that's a win-win no? But no, it's something else. "We"/"They" need a way to create funds without a paper trail (Iran contra scandal) - it's definitely "palpable" whatever is going on here but I don't think the full picture will be made clear any time soon.
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#86885 - 04/26/14 04:19 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
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#86889 - 04/26/14 07:17 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
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It should perhaps also be noted that Portugal's birthrate is dropping fast, and is one of the lowest in the world. The point being that holding up Portugal's drug policy as an example for the world, when other indicators (including a tanking economy) suggest that this is a failing, dying society, is somewhat dubious. Widespread use of opiates by the masses (to be distinguished from elite, shamanic drug use) looks to me like a symptom and source of degeneracy. The Lucifer Principle suggests that when a society becomes this decadent it will soon perish or be conquered by more vital nations.

Here again, as I mentioned in my Jewish vs. Nazi Satanist post, there seem to be two "Satanic" values in conflict: individual freedom & pleasure vs. collective power & survival. Who is more Satanic: The hedonist or the Spartan? The hipster junky or the holy warrior? As always, history will be the judge.



Edited by Brother Nihil (04/26/14 08:06 PM)

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#86894 - 04/26/14 10:16 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Brother Nihil]
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 Quote:
Who is more Satanic: The hedonist or the Spartan? The hipster junky or the holy warrior?


good point. I think both... so long as they are self-aware.

Consciousness plays a huge role. If you're just a druggy because "fuck it it feels good" you're not a whole lot different than a spartan going through the motions because it's the norm.

A druggy in Spartan society would be as satanic as a Spartan amidst a debauched neighbor-hood.

The two are equal, just for different reasons.

so long as you know what the fuck you're doing and that it is deliberate.

If you're blindly following anything; be it the laws of Sparta or the norms of your pot-head friends it's just not satanic.

Now, of course, if you lived in Sparta and deliberately followed orders - that too is satanic, and for the same reasons I don't think everyone in the military is a rube.

It was a choice.

That is the crux of it all - free-will.

Are you "choosing" and "thinking for your goddamned-self"? - that is satanic. Are you just going with the flow and accepting whatever gets fed to you - from family? friends? churches? the feds?

Then it ain't.

Do NOT belong.

History WILL be the judge - you are absolutely right about that but with that:

"Never underestimate the power of a few committed people to change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/26/14 10:41 PM)
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#86897 - 04/26/14 11:27 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Brother Nihil]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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 Quote:
when other indicators (including a tanking economy) suggest that this is a failing, dying society


Absolutely, but that is sort of arbitrary to my point, which was, that prohibition is driven by special interests. It was the abnormally high rate of HIV infection (and strain on health care/law enforcement) that lead Portugal to reevaluate it's policy. It hasn't hurt them any to decriminalize ALL drugs, which underscores the selfish nature of prohibition.

If people want to kill themselves it should be a personal decision, praised as positive population control, and not be the concern of any government. The symptoms are present regardless of legality.

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#86913 - 04/27/14 08:55 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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 Quote:
That is the crux of it all - free-will.

Are you "choosing" and "thinking for your goddamned-self"? - that is satanic. Are you just going with the flow and accepting whatever gets fed to you - from family? friends? churches? the feds?

Then it ain't.

Do NOT belong.


What like accepting that 'Free Will' was deliberately chosen to describe a will that isn't free?

I bet you thought that you chose that phrase, don't you?
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#86925 - 04/27/14 12:58 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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 Quote:
What like accepting that 'Free Will' was deliberately chosen to describe a will that isn't free?


yes, and that the consequences of using said free-will irresponsibly come at a cost - sometimes of one's own free-will itself; for a time, anyway. One *can* choose to get help, and one can choose to continue to blow their minds.


 Quote:
I bet you thought that you chose that phrase, don't you?
you bet correctly.
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#86997 - 04/29/14 08:27 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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Freewill is a pretty, and even useful fiction, but a fiction still.

This is probably the most pervasive bit of magian dogma to thrive in these sorts of circles, yet it boils down to feel good nonsense and evaporates under logical scrutiny.

Choices are merely rearview mirror speculations, in the moment you can only do what you actually do, which is reliant on the same cause and effect patterns as everything else.

That is, unless you posit some magical x factor that separates us from the rest of the universe.
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#86999 - 04/29/14 09:03 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dan_Dread]
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 Quote:
and even useful fiction, but a fiction still.
possibly so. Then, again, if I'm rubbing out a real corker it's not very useful to me to stop and think "I do realize this is just my hand, right?" if there's no free-will then what is jacking me off?

Maybe "free-will" is painting with a pretty-broad brush... how about "conscious intent"?


Edited by antikarmatomic (04/29/14 09:26 AM)
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#87001 - 04/29/14 09:42 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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 Quote:
Maybe "free-will" is painting with a pretty-broad brush... how about "conscious intent"?


I use to defend free will, but it falls to logic.

"Conscious intent" is still limited by statistical probability, and causation. I personally take the stance of "pessimistic (hard) incompatibilism". The presence of a free-will yields infinite regress.

An interesting quote...

 Quote:
This is because to be responsible in some situation S, one must have been responsible for the way one was at S−1. To be responsible for the way one was at S−1, one must have been responsible for the way one was at S−2, and so on. At some point in the chain, there must have been an act of origination of a new causal chain. But this is impossible. Man cannot create himself or his mental states ex nihilo. This argument entails that free will itself is absurd. - Galen Strawson




Edited by CanisMachina42 (04/29/14 09:51 AM)

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#87004 - 04/29/14 10:05 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: CanisMachina42]
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Conscious intent..

OK. So at what point does this 'conscious intent' cause itself, and by what means?
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#87013 - 04/29/14 10:42 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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 Originally Posted By: antikarmatomic
if there's no free-will then what is jacking me off?

Maybe "free-will" is painting with a pretty-broad brush... how about "conscious intent"?


Oh I see, so 'Conscious Intent' is just playing another round of the semantics game. What is the driving force behind your impulses to jack-off? Do you really think it's Will? Conscious Intent?

How do you account for men that do it in their sleep?
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#87016 - 04/29/14 10:56 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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Free will only exists in limited contexts. In the case of drugs, it would simply be the moment of stimuli (drugs are offered) and response (drugs are taken). Conscious intent = I will seek out and take those drugs. They can be distinguished, but I don't view it as a central argument to the topic at hand.
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#87017 - 04/29/14 11:12 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Le Deluge]
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Considering that primary motor cortex has already fired off before you're even consciously aware of it?

All the research conducted demonstrates that this cortex decides on a course of action based on the stimuli (signals) then body function responds.

In your example, you wouldn't be conscious of the body's intent until after your body has responded.

When scientists conduct human trials, they offer a series of options to choose from however the responses are not voluntary by any means. It's just processing data from what is available (choosing from choices already made for you).

When researches test Volition, they often control the sensory input, so getting usable data is often problematic. The research continues to this day because there are so many variables (and areas of the brain) that are involved in intentional responses.

Check out some of Wilder Penfield's work with epileptic patients.

Clip
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#87019 - 04/29/14 11:18 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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I'm thinking more of an a priori conscious intent. The question would be "Where does it come from?". It sounds like we'd reach an impasse if volition cannot be pinpointed. In the case of a heroin addict, it would be obvious. Beyond that, I guess we'd be met by something they are unable ro really peg down.
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#87021 - 04/29/14 11:28 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Le Deluge]
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 Quote:
In the case of a heroin addict, it would be obvious.



Yeah, I dunno about you but I've never met a Heroin Addict that consciously chose to be addicted to Heroin.

See: Unconscious information processing in executive control

(see the section on unconscious rewards which boost cognitive tasks) May even call it the pleasure principal.

An addict is avoiding the pains of detox, it's easier to just feed the beast (even if it degrades your health and kills you).
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#87022 - 04/29/14 11:31 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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No, I mean the reason why he/she is choosing to do heroin is a given. They can't help themselves. Put two in the ground in my former "extended circle".I just avoid them now. An odd aside: Both overdosed after getting off H and using again. One took 24 hours to die. That was a fucking ugly scene.
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#87059 - 04/30/14 10:00 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Le Deluge]
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Yeah I understood that, just re-emphasizing it.

 Quote:
I just avoid them now.


ZOMG why do you care?! *snark*
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#87361 - 05/11/14 09:39 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
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 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
[URL=http://s291.photobucket.com/user/gilqash/media/Lecture1.jpg.html][/URL]


I would argue that 75mcg is a pretty pedestrian dose. Doonesbury always struck me as written by and for posers. In the heyday of the "Psychedelic 60s" 300mcg was a pretty common dose. It was considered the norm for a good "kite." In my day (80's) 100-120mcg was almost uniformly the standard. Most Psychonauts would take 2-3 hits just for purely recreational purposes. 10 hits (1000+mcg) was considered almost required to get that true reality warping effect.
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#87621 - 05/15/14 09:27 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Dan_Dread]
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I scratch it up to the ol' "if the mind were simple enough to understand we'd be too simple to understand it" paradigm.

I know it sounds like a cop-out, but no more so than conceding that you simply cannot pull yourself up by your own boot-straps - ya need a fulcrum for that, ya know?

In the case of the human mind, we need EEGs and algorithms that "we're" only just starting to make any head-way with.

I will never understand "directly" from whence conscious intent arises any more so than I can lucid dream 100% of the time. I'm comfy with that - in fact that sorta makes me more interesting to me than I would be if I tried to be interesting. Surprising myself is a neat little "joy".

Stare at a computer screen for 8 hours straight wondering why some thread produces null exceptions sporadically, think real hard and analytically about it to no avail, say "fuck it I'm going home", fall asleep, and (I shit you not, without fail) like magic - just as I drift off it occurs to me in a hypnogagic slurry / delerium fugue - I do dream in code and sometimes I see it burned into my retinas (which is actually kinda alarming now that I mention it) - it's like I shut my eyes and I'm literally "reading it" as clear as this forum... and just as I'm about to drift off WHAM! I see it!

It's a sort of mundane genius / genie / djinn - fucked if I know how it works, but it works.

Same deal.

The best I can come up with is that we got it all bass akwards. Reason does not trump will. Reason serves the will.

From whence will comes is simply something reason is impotent to penetrate.

I honestly do not and cannot explain how I "got this far" in the real world... it wasn't deliberate... shit, I never even finished college, but I pull off shit that even baffles me. Fucked if I know.

I see it more as "flow" - like "think" but don't think too hard, maybe even a twisted face of instinct.

Ya know, some people are just have that "golden touch" and it's just something they ride with. Those who don't go writing books 'bout the Übermensch with not much else to show for it.

Find your Niche or find your your Nietzsche.

Now, to address the
 Quote:
and by what means
well... and I know this sounds fucking bat shit crazy... but intuitively I suspect it's all tied in someway to the ionosphere - but "that is another story___"


Edited by antikarmatomic (05/15/14 09:53 PM)
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#87623 - 05/15/14 09:43 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Fist]
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I would take 2-3 hits in high school just to see if I could maintain composure. It was an experiment for me, BUT I never actually did the "math" behind the mcgs. It was all x number of tabs.

Garcia Gold, for example - two tabs of that knocked me right off my ass when 4 hits of blotter was... well.. pretty passe. We never knew, though. Maybe it's good, maybe it's shit. Maybe my back'll ache the morning after, maybe not.

While I can say I've done LSD exactly 122 times, I've never done more than 7 tabs in one sitting.

There was this myth (which might be true or might not) that 7 hits of LSD = legally insane. 20/20 hindsight it sounds like BS, but at the time it was accepted as common knowledge (kids, right?)

7 tabs was the most I ever taken, and I shit you not, it was not pleasant. I could feel the very arteries connecting the marrow of my shins to my blood stream. It felt like "wet" - like being a hatchling kicked out of the nest. Not that it "freaked me out" but more like opening a door and going "ok eh, this kinda sucks" / "too much fun"

Ken Kesey in "the electric kool aid acid test" mentioned the "filtering mechanism" the brain has in place to, ya know, keep us from thinking about shit we don't need to be thinking about and how acid sorta kicks that gate wide open - like it or not.

I think I have to side with evolution on this one... I do NOT need to be aware of my own throbbing bone marrow.

It IS interesting... but good luck coming back from that experience while retaining any semblance of normalcy.

Fun times and brain tattoos.

No matter how long its been I swear I can always tell that someone has been there too.

This is not necessarily a bad thing ;\)


Edited by antikarmatomic (05/15/14 10:17 PM)
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#87885 - 05/23/14 11:23 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
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Check out THIS STORY

 Quote:
Because the drops of oil were cooked into the brownies, police weighed the entire brownie batch – sugar, flour and butter – and charged him with possessing 1.5 pounds of drugs.

Jack Holmes, Lavoro’s defense attorney, believes the charge should be downgraded.

“They’ve weighed baked goods in this case,” Holmes said. “It ought to be a misdemeanor.”


He's facing five years to Life. For selling pot brownies and possession of the substances to make them.

 Quote:
officers found 1.5 pounds of brownies, along with a pound of marijuana, digital scales, $1,675 in cash and several bags of marijuana at Jacob Lavoro's apartment last month.

Now, Lavoro faces a first-degree felony and if convicted, the former high school football player with a clean record faces a possible punishment ranging from five years to life behind bars.


First-degree felony vs. misdemeanor because they weighed the brownies.
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#87912 - 05/24/14 11:56 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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It definitely sucks to be that guy. I swear a similar scenario cropped up a few years back but I'm not really sure what came of it.

All that comes to mind, really, is how we're supposedly in the midst of some sorta Criminal Justice reform? This flies right in the face of that.

Of course, we'll all have to see how this plays out. 'Could be that the headline is the "bait" to "sell" us on some AIC program - the likes of which I'm sure will proliferate in the wake of Marijuana decriminalization.

On another tangent, in the wake of the Affordable Care Act, workers in some companies are effectively being "fined" upwards of $120 a month for reporting that they do smoke cigarettes. (simply saying "no I don't smoke" when you do constitutes insurance fraud, though difficult to prove) This is a fairly new policy at my place of employment and it still remains unclear if this applies to Marijuana smokers as well. What is interesting is how this penalty is implemented under the same rationale that the Clinton Tobacco tax was "to offset health care costs". It's sort of a double-jeopardy - at least to those who have been paying attention.

I, personally, foresee a day when "health and wellness programs" become obligatory. Not only will insurance companies offer discounted gym membership, but will fine you for not being active enough. Similarly it would not surprise me in the least to learn that he gets his sentence reduced in exchange for participating in some "program" or another.

Interesting times we are living in, no?


Edited by antikarmatomic (05/24/14 12:30 PM)
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#88088 - 05/29/14 12:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: antikarmatomic]
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Speaking of Health & Wellness: Treating Brain Diseases with Marijuanna

 Quote:
“Medical marijuana can be considered to relieve particular symptoms of MS, including spasticity, pain related to spasms, or central pain from MS lesions,” says Dr. Barbara Koppel, main author of the research analysis.

Koppel, a neurologist at New York Medical College in New York, says medical marijuana did not help MS patients who had tremors, nor did it relieve abnormal involuntary movements in late-stage Parkinson’s disease. Researchers also didn’t find enough evidence to recommend the treatment for other conditions they looked at, including epilepsy, she says.


Pretty interesting. I'd say, it's just a matter of time before it's completely decriminalized and managed by the 'Health-Care' industry.
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#89967 - 06/24/14 11:04 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
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In my opinion, consenting adults should have access to any drug so long as they are aware of the risks. I mean, can you think of a better way to expedite natural selection?
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#90001 - 06/25/14 11:08 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Vapula]
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Desomorphine is doing a fine job.

The effects are pretty gross. Once it hit U.S. streets, it seems to be spreading to the same effects as crack cocaine in the early 90's.


CNN did THIS feature in 2013. People see the effects, yet they can't kick it once they start. Even if limbs start falling off. Pretty crazy.
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#105407 - 02/02/16 09:02 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
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Is weed a drug? Because if it isn't, then I don't do drugs! But seriously, it's awesome after a long day of being a hard working taxpayer.
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#106397 - 04/21/16 01:59 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: halfchaos]
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what kinda Kentucky bourbon do you like

and then i will know what you mean
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#113554 - 07/20/17 08:33 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
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If your looking to dissociate yourself from reality and not deal with the cards that the almighty Fagtard may have dealt you Elmers rubber cement seems to do the trick just throw on some Ministry, the mind is a terrible thing to tast or some other old school Min pref Stigmata and sniff yourself into oblivion,Phenyls pretty cool too.
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#113555 - 07/20/17 08:36 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: ShadyNastys]
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The Smoke of the Gods,AKA marijuana always puts a smile on my face no matter ho pissed off I am and I got PTSD from the service so, smells neat.
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#113556 - 07/20/17 08:40 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: SIN3]
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Hey Ive been breaking don some Ancient Egyptian Book of the Dead Shit and IDK I just like the taste of blue Lotus,OK ill share maybe with a setoff of how to transform yourself into a lotus spell a couple times. Ive only had it go good experience on it once though, Not strong enough. They need to make it stronger.
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#113620 - 07/25/17 07:17 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Azrael999]
William Wright Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Azrael999
The Smoke of the Gods,AKA marijuana always puts a smile on my face no matter ho pissed off I am

There was a time when I would’ve moved to Amsterdam, or at least Colorado, to legally smoke weed. These days, not so much. Weed puts a smile on your face, but more often than not it makes me paranoid as hell, as in oh fuck am I having a heart attack?

I don’t understand those who just go into laughing fits, or get the munchies or drift off to sleep. When I smoke I think and think and think, until my thoughts get the better of me. At this point I’d rather just do a few shots and call it a day. Drinking of course has its own downsides, but at least I know what I’m dealing with.

Whenever some ho pisses me off, I just smack the bitch
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#113747 - 08/04/17 05:38 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: William Wright]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
Man this whole thread just reminds me what a bunch of prudes Satanists can be. Almost as bad as the Church of Satan - aka the tumor on Christianity's ass. And this thread was started in 2011.

Here's an article that explains much about the OP's question, although seven years too late...


http://abrahadabra.com/4724-2/

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#113754 - 08/05/17 11:55 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 97and107]
Azrael999 Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 66
I'd like to create a drug that actually creates zombies. But only temporarily though so when they wake up they feal all bad and sht for eating their neighbors face and go to confession that way I can mind fk two social cancers at the same time.
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#113765 - 08/07/17 05:44 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Azrael999]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
I think, rufies and some clean human blood sustainably harvested on the face would do the trick. Can you imagine the fallout from such an operation? We don't have the numbers to do it of course, not yet, but imagine a whole generation of people thinking that they are secretly running around at night eating people...
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#115041 - 10/31/17 03:22 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Set]
paintmepink Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/19/17
Posts: 6
Nictoine, Cannabis, Alcohol.

I've never consumed a hallucinogenic but I don't see anything wrong with mushrooms or taking acid once or twice.

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#115277 - 11/22/17 04:27 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Modesty Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 16
Loc: Arkansas
As a firefighter and first responder, I see not one reason or benefit to using drugs.

I've seen wrecks and overdoses, meth heads that have ran into a car full of 15 year old kids killing them, then jumping out and running away from the scene, hearts stopping and unable to revive, faces staring back and losing all color as they bleed out and you can't do anything at all. I see this shit everyday, whether my eyes or shut or open. Again, I see no reason for using or users. And I have no pity or sympathy left.

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#115282 - 11/24/17 01:44 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Modesty]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3153
Hence why most of these things are called "recreational".
A bit like surfing (or waterboarding). You do not necessarily need to take that wave... but it can be fun sometimes.

Brave (wo)man you are for being a first responder. Helping people out who fucked up. I know I can't. I got the attitude of "let them fuck up and pay their own price".

I would be grateful for your help when in need. Probably learn a few lessons on how to do better next time. Give flowers and pay respects. But helping others out when they fuck-up? Not my cup of tea.

Hence why I can't be against drug-users or drugs in general. The problem is always the person, never the thing it uses. Remove the person and the problem fixes itself.


Edited by Dimitri (11/24/17 01:45 AM)
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#115290 - 11/24/17 08:25 AM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Modesty]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6873
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Modesty
As a firefighter and first responder, I see not one reason or benefit to using drugs


Ummmm modern medicine uses drugs. Many of which are used recreationally and responsibily. Sometimes shit happens, even with medical treatments.

All those malpractice and accidental death suits. All those side effects to getting well again.
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#115320 - 12/03/17 05:42 PM Re: What kind of drugs? [Re: Modesty]
fiendish Offline
member


Registered: 02/27/16
Posts: 283
Religion is the opium of the people. I can see some similarity here. I also see this shit everyday (although not being a firefighter) and I can't do anything at all. My pity and sympathy lessens by the hour. But they know time is not on my side.
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