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#62941 - 12/25/11 10:12 PM Re: ADM [Re: The Zebu]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4018
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
The idea was to take the core 'itness' of ONA and repackage it, but it proved more hassle than it was worth. Nothing any of us are doing has much to do with the 'core' ONA, and retconning was proving tedious. We all just decided our goals were better served under a separate banner, or no banner.
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#62945 - 12/26/11 02:39 AM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
The idea was to take the core 'itness' of ONA and repackage it


Here begins a lengthy self-serving ONA disgression and explanation. So, excuses made, let me begin.

The internet maybe gives a somewhat distorted view of what the core is. As I understand it, the core is the person doing practical amoral deeds, testing themselves, undertaking challenges, over a period of some years, and learning some particular esoteric skills. With some doing this alone, or with their partner; and with some being part of an established group or nexion and thus getting some personal (not e-mail) guidance if they wanted it. E-mail guidance doesn't really count.

The key thus is the person doing stuff, enjoying it, learning from it. Using causal forms.

Those doing it alone didn't have any face to face contact with someone from an established nexion who'd "been there, done that" - and was an internal adept, at least - and so often just took some ONA stuff from the net or from items like Naos and used them, and interpreted them. Keeping what they found useful or worked for them and ignoring what didn't work for them or which they didn't resonate with. Like, say, the nazi thing, or the overt Satanism thing.

For decades, this 'doing' usually meant trying to follow the seven fold way - actually doing Occult stuff, rites, ceremonies, grade rituals. Both for those working alone, and for many though not all of those part of an established nexion.

So what seemed to happen here was that very few of those who came to the ONA via the net actually did the grade rituals, or built a star game, or learnt esoteric chant, or did an insight role, or did the physical challenges. How many spent three months doing the rite of internal adept? AFAIK, one. Yes, just one over ten years. Many just played at being ONA or pretended to be ONA via the internet while deluging us with verbiage. Others just cherry picked, and did, say, an insight role, or founded their own group, and that was that. A lot gave up, or fell at a hurdle when doing stuff like an insight role.

That's fine, as they may have gained something from the experience. But one thing that was also missing here was the development of real Occult abilities. Another missing part was the ONA oral tradition, or as AL spells it, aural. Which many of the internet folks believe didn't exist, even though early ONA typewritten MSS are full of the stuff, from Bron Wrgan to Sapphistry to King Arthur in Shropshire.

This is where the third phase of ONA development kicked in around three years ago, moving from the Satan stage to the Baphomet stage, as AL cryptically put it. Not that many understood the relevance of our female Baphomet as symbol, or got what this Baphomet stage meant - kudos to Chloe, who did get what the Baphomet stage meant and who, by bouncing ideas back and forth between some of the OG like DL9, was instrumental in giving it substance. Thus the form of sinister tribes and gangs came about, of a kollective; of the ONA evolving into a culture with an esoteric ethos, and which culture people could identify with, and be part of, without having to do overt esoteric stuff like ceremonial Occult rituals or believe Satan was an actual being from the acausal dimensions. This ethos and this culture meant folks living by our code of sinister honor, being heretical, adversarial, and being tribal, and this means identity, be it ethnic, 'criminal', or even of something like Reichsfolk (such as the ONA inspired NS gang in one US state).

But here again, how many were and are out there, doing heretical, adversarial, stuff while calling themselves ONA? Not that many. But there were and are some, and they know who they are.

So, what about our female Baphomet as symbol? Female Baphomet as symbol? WTF?

Sinister feminine archetype, anyone? Sapphistry? Bringing down the male-dominated Occult scene with its magian-infested forms and posturing macho males. Changing the emphasis from patriarchy to the sinister feminine and to tribes. In short, the aural Rounwytha tradition, and its evolution in concert with our O9A culture of kindred honor.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
We all just decided our goals were better served under a separate banner, or no banner.

May wyrd favor you!

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#62946 - 12/26/11 02:43 AM Re: ADM [Re: The Zebu]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Concerning your latest post, I never really understood what "ONA 3.0" really was supposed to mean besides two or three people putting "We are 3.0" banners on their blogs for a couple months.

You're basically right. As I understood it - and I could be wrong - it was part of how some folks 'branded' their independent nexions - their take on the ONA - while some others used it in a different way in reference to the example of the ONA as a kind of human software, with 3 being the latest version of the software.

But there also really was a third phase of ONA development, which I mentioned in my reply to Dan D here.

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#62948 - 12/26/11 08:46 AM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
Thank you SinisterMoon. \:\)

Not all 3.0ers are done with the ONA. I ain't going anywhere, the ONA is the only school of thought I find that nails the Sinister Feminine.

Which is why I "signed up " and will continue with the ONA. I personally hate how male oriented Satanism is. I only started on the interwebz to find women that I resonated with, I have only stayed around for the few women I have found that "ring that bell " for me.

They are all "Niners " . What does that make me? A "Niner. " I can't "go along " with the decision made by the others here. I have already stated this on my but it needs restating here.

I am not done with the ONA. The others can be and I accept their decision, no respect lost to (at least in my case) I simply disagree.

Something different speaks to me when I read ONA material. The Sinister (True) Feminine.

Sorry, Mr. Dread, mad respect to you, you donning the ONA cloak made me look at it, people like Shugz made me look at it, but not all of your associates are done with the ONA. I am not and for me at least, that matters. \:\)
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#62949 - 12/26/11 08:52 AM Re: ADM [Re: FemaleSatan]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
I really hate hijacking people's threads. Again Mr. Dread, I am sorry. It's just when you say "we're done " people assume that means me as well. And I am not.

So... back to ADM?
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#62953 - 12/26/11 11:58 AM Re: ADM [Re: FemaleSatan]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4018
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Nothings changed as per how I approach things. My focus has always been the real and my lifestyle brings more real world 'sinister pathei mathos' than any 3 people staring at the sky and chanting, surely, and that's just the thing.

That's why I coined 3.0. For some of us this is very real shit, but it has little to do with any of the esoteric stuff that paves the ONA path proper. And honestly, during my time affiliated, I really saw no evidence of anything of this very real shit, represented by what I and others involved in 3.0 are up to, outside of 3.0.

I know I know, it's the internet, you can't prove real life deeds here, nor should any be expected to, but Id rather have 3 or 4 solid individuals I know I can trust at my back than some faceless nebulous bloggers that have become easier and easier to see through with time..

I mean, you guys have killed the mythos of 'anton long' by using him to win internet arguments, we got chloe dropping blogs taking credit for all that is going on here by virtue of branding us all her 'meme canvas', and we had all sorts of 'supporting' blogs for 3.0 that read as a mad retcon scramble that mostly missed the point of what we were upto anyway.

So who wins? As for the 3rd phase being around for 3 years or whatever, there's a good example. 3.0 came out of my head, and there was no third phase, intimation 3, etc etc before I did that, yet no shortage of credit takers. Purely retcon.

In short, I'm having a harder and harder time seeing this ONA internet shit as meaningful, and frankly it was getting embarrassing.

As mentioned before, I have much respect to those that actually presence the dark, dig into the antinomian shit for their own gain, and live with honour at the forefront...wherever they are.
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#62954 - 12/26/11 01:45 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"In short, I'm having a harder and harder time seeing this ONA internet shit as meaningful, and frankly it was getting embarrassing."

Which is how it always was and is.
There will always be tools, cannon fodder, and arm chair idiots.

The idea is to do something in real life, off the internet.
To better yourself, push yourself. The offline trials were a part of that.

It doesn't matter if the idea comes from a man or a woman. The point is to take the information and do something of personal value with it.

Jerking off doesn't count.

Morgan
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#62959 - 12/26/11 03:03 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I'm having a harder and harder time seeing this ONA internet shit as meaningful

I don't see the problem here, since I guess most of us would agree that the internet is just a facade, a modern propaganda tool, one new means of incitement to action, and that all the verbiage written and posted there is just verbiage with no reality; no connection to doing sinister stuff and learning from it.

That's why we don't take seriously what people we don't personally know claim or write on the net, or give them any respect - although we may pretend sometimes, and interact with them in a polite way via e-mails or via forums like this. This applies even if they've been around on the net for years and claim they're ONA. But that's all part of 'the sinister game' if you get my drift as I guess you will.

Perhaps it's time we stated this openly and honestly, via this medium, though some knew this already.

But there is one good thing about this medium - and that's it has enabled us to influence some people world-wide over the past decade, even if this is only temporary, like of the order of months, or a year. Some have even been known to have had their lives altered in a positive sinister way by having come across us 'here' - it's just presencing the dark using a new medium. Useful, but of limited value, since like we've saying for a decade or more the real work carries on in the old way, person to person, sans the internet.

Which real work is not just 'staring at the sky and chanting' nor building and playing the star game or whatever - but changing people by esoteric and practical means and slowly recruiting people in the old way and thus building aeonic nexions of influence in academia, the arts, elsewhere. This takes time; decades; and the results prolly won't be seen for maybe a century or two. But of course in response to this the internet crowd will reach for their keyboard and type BS. Whatever.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
As for the 3rd phase being around for 3 years or whatever, there's a good example. 3.0 came out of my head, and there was no third phase, intimation 3, etc etc before I did that

With respect, in 2008/2009 AL wrote about the ONA entering its third phase. The phase symbolized by Baphomet, not by Satan.

Sure, I do believe you were the first to use the exact term '3.0' and that you meant something specific, but what was meant by 'the third phase' was explained in many ONA items circulated on the net during the past two years. The two, your 3.0 and the third phase, seemed to sync for a while - at least in places.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but right from day one the ONA was about doing amoral stuff, using causal forms (like nazism and even Satanism), and learning from your own practical sinister experience.

As for using 3.0 instead of 'the third phase' isn't that a bit like using O9A instead of ONA? Your term 3.0 was hijacked and aplied to the third phase stuff simply because it was useful - 'cool' - and in many ways better than typing 'the third phase' and like I said what you implied by it seemed in sync with this 'third phase'.

But, hey, if what was meant by 'the third phase' differed substantially from your 3.0 then I'll stand corrected.

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#62960 - 12/26/11 03:16 PM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4018
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I guess I just don't see the game plan as sound. Amoral character is a rare beast, and as more and more moral minds catch the ONA virus and start repeating the memes, those memes become tainted with that very moral character. As such, the heterodox slowly filters into the orthodox. Getting more people to rep ONA just seems like a worse and worse idea to me.

I do wish you luck on your endeavors, and still consider many of you brothers and sisters in purpose and essence, and will remain open to collaboration, but ADM is not rightly ONA, and pure anarchism(vis a vis 3.0) is not rightly ONA. To rob the 'esoteric' side of the beast is to do it a dis-service, and frankly I have no 'esoteric' side ;\)
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#62963 - 12/26/11 03:40 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
as more and more moral minds catch the ONA virus and start repeating the memes, those memes become tainted with that very moral character. As such, the heterodox slowly filters into the orthodox. Getting more people to rep ONA just seems like a worse and worse idea to me.

You may be right, there are problems, dangers, and this has been the subject of much internal discussion over the past two or three years.

But if the aims are breeding a new type of human and changing 'society' - even if over a century or more - then you do need some new recruits and some propaganda.

If the aim is personal, then you don't.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I do wish you luck on your endeavors, and still consider many of you brothers and sisters in purpose and essence, and will remain open to collaboration,

Ditto.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
but ADM is not rightly ONA, and pure anarchism(vis a vis 3.0) is not rightly ONA. To rob the 'esoteric' side of the beast is to do it a dis-service, and frankly I have no 'esoteric' side ;\)

I agree, and if 3.0 = anarchism only then 'our' use of 3.0 is incorrect.

So I guess the misunderstanding arose from you combining 'ONA' with '3.0' and from us viewing anarchism as just another causal form that can be used in the context of the esoteric ONA.

Shall we make that EOT?

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#62964 - 12/26/11 03:55 PM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4018
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Naw, you misunderstand. Of course anarchism is a form, aimed at a purpose. I get that. The purpose is to see it all burn, and restore some honor to the world, or at least presence these things on a small scale or whatever scale is realistic. For me it's a matter of just being driven to that, because of my own character.

I don't really disagree with much of what you are saying, and honestly what you mean by 3.0 and what I mean don't seem to dissimilar, it's just a matter of how far you want to stretch the ONA blanket.

ONA too, is a causal form, an intimation by your own words, and I guess what it comes down to is I am just having trouble seeing how using it as a rally point is an effective strategy.

ONA tradition is a proven way to attain amoral character, or at least see what the fuck you are really made of, and as such, as it is, is a sharp and purposeful blade. I guess I have just come to agree with the more traditional voices of the ONA, and have come to see mutating it and fucking with it, as a form, as a bit like pissing in the well.

I do not use that form, but the essence behind it, that primal 'itness' drives what I do and what I am regardless of how I frame it.

I hope this clarifies some things, although I do not presume to speak for anyone else.
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#62965 - 12/26/11 04:08 PM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem is that there's too much propaganda and too little doing. Many of us recognized the game quite some time ago and either played along or acted dumb because there were benefits to it but it passed the point where the game became that obvious and that ridiculous it's only embarrassing.

The problem I see is that there's only words. Sure one can call it incitement or propaganda but frankly, that's all bullshit when those behind that very incitement or propaganda are doing nothing but that. And that's what I see: words words words. “We know those that...” just doesn't do it. It's just another semi-clever trick.

The reality I see is that those that represent ONA most, don't call themselves ONA. They didn't need it to become what they are and they won't need it to do what they need to do.

All what is being said about tribes and honor I see being put into practice but amazingly enough not by those talking about it most. Yes sure, we can call this sinister and such but personally I think bullshit is much more appropriate as a description.

D.

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#62968 - 12/26/11 06:28 PM Re: ADM [Re: Diavolo]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
The problem is that there's too much propaganda and too little doing.

Agreed, but that's the nature of 'this beast', we all know that. I was talking about the core ONA stuff put onto the internet as propaganda, mostly written by AL, not about the BS elsewhere. Though some might think a lot of the aforementioned ONA stuff is BS \:\)

Such stuff is just an accessable resource using a modern medium. That's it. What people do with it, what they write about, isn't the point IMO.

Let's be honest - and I'm making an assumption here so correct me if I'm wrong - DD and others have read this resource on the net and thought about it and tried to work with it. How else would they have known about the ONA? AFAIK they haven't personally met AL or CB or worked with any of the traditional nexions in England.

So if that resource inspires a small number of people, over say ten years, to work in the ONA way then it's been useful.

But like the ONA keep saying, that internet resource - that propaganda and incitement - and what people write about it on the net, isn't the ONA. The ONA is a small number of people, some who work alone, some following the 7FW; some belonging to nexions; some doing other stuff, blah blah blah

Maybe - like some have suggested - it's time to limit the resource, and no longer add to it. Or even remove it from the net completely.

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#62969 - 12/26/11 06:34 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I guess I have just come to agree with the more traditional voices of the ONA, and have come to see mutating it and fucking with it, as a form, as a bit like pissing in the well.

So maybe it really is time for the 'traditional voices' to go away from 'here' and close down all their websites and blogs.

Or just leave one small resource on the net containing a few essential, traditional, items.

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#62970 - 12/26/11 06:52 PM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course most of us read ONA material and recognized an essence which has value and is more satanic than most things satanic but it requires digging through a whole lot of crap. Let's face it, ONA's form is dated, partially stuck in the 80ies and of little relevance today. I mean dark gods, chanting, star games...etc belong to the same era as holistic healing and Chakra therapy.

ONA “as was” might have some use for some but all which is added now doesn't do it any favors. It's degenerating quite fast.

Times change, people change and new breed will arise. Those will do what comes natural to them regardless if there is an ONA or not.

D.

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