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#62971 - 12/26/11 07:00 PM Re: ADM [Re: Diavolo]
Interrogist Offline
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Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 162
They most certainly will.
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#62973 - 12/26/11 10:18 PM Re: ADM [Re: Interrogist]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
No exceptions I fear, so please add some more next time.

Thanks,

D.

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#62984 - 12/27/11 01:59 AM Re: ADM [Re: Diavolo]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Let's face it, ONA's form is dated, partially stuck in the 80ies and of little relevance today. I mean dark gods, chanting, star games...etc belong to the same era as holistic healing and Chakra therapy.

Bottom line is the traditional methods of the ONA work, in producing or nurturing a type of person, weeding out the wrong type, and getting those who pass beyond a particular stage to stay, to be our type for the rest of their lives.

Work, I should add in a small way. Not in huge numbers, but sufficient.

The traditional methods begin with person recruiting person, in the real world, and include the 7FW and the rounwytha. Yep, with all that star game, grade rituals, esoteric chant, mysterium, dark gods stuff. True, it's been tweaked a bit in the last three years, and developed a bit, like as in the honor thing.

So we're not going to junk all that because some people thing it's old hat, belongs in the 70's or 80's, or something.

Fact is, experience over 40 years has shown it's the star game, esoteric chant, grade rituals, mysterium, dark gods, aural, stuff, that causes what Chloe would call 'Nisay' for the ONA and the people they know in it.

If people don't find all this traditional stuff appealing, it doesn't matter. They can, as many have done over the past 20 years, junk what they don't like, take what they want, develop it, and market it under some name of their own. Or they can go find some other group - plenty around. Or devise something of their own, possibly inspired by the ONA or possibly inspired by a desire not to be like the ONA. Whatever.

Like I said, the internet has been useful in some minor ways, and caused us to influence some people, and annoy and provoke many more. Why, it's even brought in a few, just a few, good people.

In the end, we're not competing with others. Not concerned about numbers beyond recruiting in the old way. We're just saying - look, here's our stuff, our way. Take it, leave it, use it, laugh at it, hate it.

Sure some people leave. That's expected even necessary. I think the fact we've been around for 40 years says something. That we've gotten people who been with us for 20 years or more says something as well.

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#62993 - 12/27/11 03:13 AM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
MindFux Offline
member


Registered: 12/27/10
Posts: 174
For me it's just about respect and it's that simple. The whole 'Chloe' thing is an enormous fucking embarassment and always has been precisely because it became so transparent, and frankly, childish. If the ONA is regarded as a bit of a joke on-line, it's because of shit like the nonsense Chloe was throwing out straight from her imagination getting more air time than the real shit that DM got up to back in the day. (And his deeds are the only externally verifiable deeds that the 'entire' ONA has ever produced).

From the point of view of 316 we put our heads above water to see what wandered along on-line. At no point did we claim to be 'ONA' or claim to have followed a 'traditional path' but rather we took the Naos, very early on in our lives, cherry picked what we liked then just did what the fuck we wanted. We tossed a nod to the ONA thing because bits of it were central, and for no reason other than that (it wasn't the only thing we nod to).

I'm not going to question or not the 'value' of the 7FW, or the 'traditional' path as espoused by 'Long' back when that nym wasn't being used by three different people at least 2 of which wrote nothing but shit, because that's not the path I walked. If people want to do a collection of Occult shit, chant and imagine that the current civilization can exist for long enough for your 200 year plan to come to fruition then that's up to them and you (Given there's 60 years of crude left in the world even with the most liberal estimates and we're entirely dependent on plastics for our entire lifestyle, I'd say, I wouldn't hold your breath).

The point is, intuitivey I sense some real value in the ONA thing if you can be fucked trying to walk someone else's path rather than develop your own from your own experience. (The ONA thing being the traditional 7FW shit). Everything you perceive as an addition to propagate the meme is nothing more than a dillution of something that only works preceisely because it is so obscure and is only real because it's real.

The fact is this, I know Dan, the 316 people and what they get up to. That's why they get my respect. I don't know anyone in the OG, and the only 'verifiable' deeds are DMs and that's why he gets my respect and none of the other jokers do. Sure RM gets some respect for propagating the meme at such enormous personal cost, which bites him even now, but that's it.

Adding something else to the ONA in the form of 3.0, when really it has shit to do with the things that really make the ONA, the ONA is pointless. Our thought, as always, was to let the ONA be the ONA, with it's traditional nexions, its chanting, it's whatever and carry on with what it does, and we'll carry on doing what we do, using the form we use. Nothing about my day to day, or Dan's, or Sam's, or Ds is going to change no matter what we use the internet for, or under what banner, but at least this way there's not something else that's not the ONA out there 'cheapening' what the ONA should be. After all, you guys aren't hard to find out in the real world if people are interested in signing up.

MF.


Edited by MindFux (12/27/11 03:15 AM)

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#62996 - 12/27/11 04:46 AM Re: ADM [Re: MindFux]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
For me it's just about respect and it's that simple.

Agreed, and that's what we've been saying for years, as what I said in an earlier reply here. It's the people you personally know that you respect, not some anonymous person writing stuff on the internet. As in -

http://pointyhat.wordpress.com/2011/12/14/who-do-they-think-we-are/

The internet is just a modern propaganda tool. Nothing more, for us. As to its value, it's not that great.

 Originally Posted By: MindFux
I'm not going to question or not the 'value' of the 7FW, or the 'traditional' path as espoused by 'Long' back when that nym wasn't being used by three different people at least 2 of which wrote nothing but shit

Interesting! This Jason King view that AL has 'retired' and others now write using his nym appears to gathering support.

 Originally Posted By: MindFux
If people want to do a collection of Occult shit, chant and imagine that the current civilization can exist for long enough for your 200 year plan to come to fruition then that's up to them and you (Given there's 60 years of crude left in the world even with the most liberal estimates and we're entirely dependent on plastics for our entire lifestyle, I'd say, I wouldn't hold your breath).

Discussing this interesting issue would prolly take us way OT. But I can't resist some comments.

The western system is resilient, adaptable, and mundanes will be mundanes, en masse, and easily manipulated.

I think people underestimate the strength and inventiveness of the western system. Sure oil will run out sometime and that will cause some problems, but the west has the world to use as a resource, and may well develop alternatives when or shortly after the time arrives. Then there's the development of Asia to factor in. China, India.

Sure people moan, complain, and some actively resist the system and its brutality, materialism, inequality and tyranny. Anyone who lived through the 60's knows what it felt like - the hope, the talk of revolution, of change, the demos, protests. The personal sacrifices. But very little changed.

Anyone who fought in WW2 and survived knows what it felt like - yeah, we had some who did go through that shit! The same hope, desire for change. The personal sacrifices. Very little changed, and what did has tended to itself be changed, over the last fifty years, for the worse.

Anyone who fought on either side in 'the troubles' in the 60's, 70's, know the hopes, the aspirations, the personal sacrifices. What's changed? Not much.

Anyone who fought on either side in Afghanistan or Iraq - or personally knows those who have - knows the hopes, the aspirations, the personal sacrifices, the rhetoric. What's changed? Or will change, soon. Not much.

People fight, die, suffer, believe, hope. For this cause or that; for this or that abstraction.

Fact is, people en masse didn't change - only some of those those who went through shit did, and many of them just wanted to live quietly afterwards. Get on with their own personal lives. Not take up arms or protest or rant on street corners.

What about those who did, after going through shit, take up arms or protest or rant on street corners? Like in Russia in 1917, in Germany in 1919. What's the legacy of the Russian revolution, the nazis, the fascists? Where are their dreams, hopes, now?

Point is, for us it's about changing people in a fundamental way. Developing a new type of person and new ways of living for the changed ones. It's not about changing the outer stuff, though using outer stuff can be fun and a useful learning experience.

Developing a new type of human takes time. So even if the western system collapses when the oil runs out, mundanes will still be mundanes and some outer forms will arise among them, to use them, control them. They will still be slaves of abstractions. Did the collapse of the Roman empire change people, the world, fundamentally? No, though it no doubt changed some, and did leave a legacy for some to learn from.

Which all just means our perspective is aeonic, and different from that of most people.

We might be wrong. But that aeonic perspective is our collective pathei mathos, and what issues from it is what makes us, us; and a minority of a minority.

So, end of OT rant \:\)


Back on topic. Maybe the whole issue is simple - the ONA is and always was an Occult group using Occult stuff and methods, including the 7FW and the form called Satanism, however that form is interpreted.

3.0 wasn't Occult and didn't want to be. Mixing the two, like DD said, was an experiment. It hasn't worked. The ONA is the ONA, folks using the 3.0 label are what they are and were.

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#62997 - 12/27/11 06:19 AM Re: ADM [Re: MindFux]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: MindFux
The whole 'Chloe' thing is an enormous fucking embarassment and always has been precisely because it became so transparent, and frankly, childish.

I personally think you do Chloe a dis-service and maybe you should cut her some slack. Do you - or anyone you know - know her personally? From what I know, she's an intelligent, young, beautiful Asian chick. Note my emphasis on 'young'.

Young people just like to have fun, sometimes.

Or maybe you think she's a nym used by sinister forces and doesn't exist in the real world??

 Originally Posted By: MindFux
After all, you guys aren't hard to find out in the real world if people are interested in signing up.


Yeah, people like CB and the 'real' AL are easy to find, but from what I know AL wouldn't be averse to shooting strangers or stabbing them to death. After all, he's now over 60 and what a mythological way to go out \:\)

PS. I've separated these 'personal comments' from my other reply to you for the obvious reason.

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#63000 - 12/27/11 09:37 AM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4017
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
"Do you - or anyone you know - know her personally?"




Take your pick.

I'll put 100 dollars in anyones paypal that can verify chloe/kayla/linsay are different people (to add to the list of other e-personas)

Here's the thing, SM, you guys talk about honour, but the game is up. You just aint fooling anyone anymore. You talk about 'our kind' and solidarity, gang culture, yet every one of you sits on a pulpit, anonymously, to do it.

The ONA is something worthy of respect, to be sure, in its original incarnation(at least on paper) but what it has become is something that talks out of one side of it's mouth, yet comports itself in a completely different manner.

You know what 'we' are? What you guys claim to be. And the fact is, you were making us look bad with all of the posturing, and insulting our intelligence with your games.
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#63003 - 12/27/11 12:00 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I'll put 100 dollars in anyones paypal that can verify chloe/kayla/linsay are different people
(to add to the list of other e-personas)

I don't get what all the fuss is about. Satanists, those on the LHP - our type at least - are amoral. Do people think we didn't mean it?

Let's assume for the sake of argument Chloe used a nym and pretended to be someone else, or several others, on the net. So what?

She was just being Satanic. Amoral. Just playing the sinister game. Having fun at people's expense via the medium of the internet. OK, maybe it's a youthful type of fun, but so what.

We never claimed that our honor guidelines apply to others or to people we don't know. We made it clear that we treat our known kind in one way, and everyone else in an amoral way. That means that everyone else is fair game until they are revealed to be, or prove that they're, our kind of people.

If people are upset by this kind of behavior - so what. If people are upset when we say we don't care, we just don't care. If people are upset when we say we don't trust people we don't know - especially those using the medium of the internet - we don't care. If they reveal themselves to us, personally, then our level of mistrust changes.

Chloe took the trouble to get to know us. That's the bottom line here.

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#63004 - 12/27/11 12:19 PM Re: ADM [Re: SinisterMoon]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4017
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Surely, there exists an us and them dichotomy. You guys have just made it clear that your 'us' and our 'us' are separate entities, via your continued attempts at pulling the wool over our eyes..which frankly, has never worked. We played along as it benefited us, but what is the point in calling someone 'ally' when they continuously try to play us, even to the point of gloating about it via blogs?

Like I said, you talk a big game about honour among our own, but it's all just words. Actions speak louder.
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#63006 - 12/27/11 01:23 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 4017
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Thanks for confirming a couple of things though. If you only trust people you know personally(as is good policy, surely), and all else are marks to you(which is where we part ways) I guess the whole time what we suspected was in fact the case..as we did our thing, under the ONA banner, you all saw us as expendable pawns or meme mules. Fair deal, as we really only used the ONA as a way to gain traction anyway, which was met with limited success. I guess it was always a mutually exploitative relationship.

What some seem to forget is that recorded on this very site is kayla giving birth to 352, and in it's infant stages, before chloe/kayla/whoever the fuck she really is got her personas straight, she showed her hand more than once. You indirectly confirming this to be the case isn't so much new information, but it's good to have it as a matter of public record.

Now get back to your cave and chant something. I'll be out in the world doing real shit, as will my comrades in arms.
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#63009 - 12/27/11 02:07 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
 Quote:
I don't get what all the fuss is about. Satanists, those on the LHP - our type at least - are amoral. Do people think we didn't mean it?

By any means, the blogs produced might reek of an amoral behavior, yet the stance tends to proof something else. (Especially in the new generation).

I'm also glad to see DD has finally seen what I meant with the 3.0 incarnation-commentary. There's still a reason why I prefer to stick toward OG writing.

 Quote:
Let's assume for the sake of argument Chloe used a nym and pretended to be someone else, or several others, on the net. So what?

She was just being Satanic. Amoral. Just playing the sinister game. Having fun at people's expense via the medium of the internet. OK, maybe it's a youthful type of fun, but so what.

The act of taking on different nyms isn't Satanic unless there is something to be learned.
As for your information, I believe she has various blogs admitting she had different ones. I believe one of her blogs about/on/against VS mentioned it.

But now you make me wonder... who are you to speak for them?
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#63015 - 12/27/11 02:51 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dimitri]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
SM, I am confused. In the blog you linked there's an entire portion about identifying "charlatans " on the internet and one of the "things" mentioned is how they act online to their "own kind." The whole thing reads as "post respectfully towards "us"."

But all of Chloe's antics are okay. Her actions may be "Satanic" in nature, but they show me I am not considered one of you by her.

And that's fine. Shit, I never really associated myself with the ONA to begin with. I was "Independent" and ONA inspired, using it's model as a model for my path.

You guys slapped the label over my writing and I went along with it because I respect the ONA and personally know the other 3.0ers so found the whole thing a worthwhile endeavour.

But to walk onto a site and act disrespectfully shows me that I was viewed as no more than a way to spread memetics. A joke of some kind (which is also fine, y'all don't know me).

But I am not going to associate with people who view me that way. That lets me know they're not my kind.

Some people view me as more than that. They are "my kind."
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#63016 - 12/27/11 02:53 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dimitri]
Morgan Offline
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"But now you make me wonder... who are you to speak for them?"



Sock Puppets.....


It's just so sad.........

\:D
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#63017 - 12/27/11 03:00 PM Re: ADM [Re: Dan_Dread]
SinisterMoon Offline
member


Registered: 07/24/10
Posts: 157
Loc: Florida
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Thanks for confirming a couple of things though.

We've never made a secret of what we are - of our Satanic amorality, of not trusting people we don't know. It's just that people either ignored it or didn't take it seriously.

By recently repeating such stuff about what we are and by it now actually being read and taken seriously, it seems we have pissed of some folks on the net - not just the 3.0 crowd but some others who aligned with us as well. This is as it is. Expected.

What's interesting is how few people of the ONA aligned internet crowd took the trouble to seek us out and get to know us.

What's amusing - and I'm not refering to anyone in particular here, BTW - is how some of those who align with Satanism or the LHP seem surprised or are annoyed when people like us are amoral, both on-line and off-line.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
You indirectly confirming this to be the case isn't so much new information, but it's good to have it as a matter of public record.

If you want to take my hypothetical argument as confirmation, fine.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Now get back to your cave and chant something.

No, I'm off to play the star game!

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
I'll be out in the world doing real shit, as will my comrades in arms.

And I'll be at the comic book store - for it's comic book Tuesday.

Live long and prosper as you will \:\)

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#63018 - 12/27/11 03:01 PM Re: ADM [Re: Morgan]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3385
 Quote:
Sock Puppets.....


It's just so sad.........

Too basic, I prefer the more advanced sock puppets. Placing a piece of cardboard where the hands move the "mouth" gives the ability to put on an extra piece of textile which can be used to make a humoristic large tongue.

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