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#60958 - 11/03/11 01:36 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo

All they need is the majority to vote laws. If they have that, all previous rules, term limits and agreements don't matter no longer.

D.


So the 1st amendment which separates church and state could just be thrown out of the window? Maybe.

You know the majority of voters also support the legalization of marijuana and that is not going to happen either. Considering the things I hear on the internet lately, I think it would not be too absurd to worry about the prohibition returning to us in the next couple decades.

Assuming what you say there actually happens, do you understand what would happen as an consequence? There wouldn't be riots, there would be a full blown war. The city would call out the riot police and they wouldn't get any response, because the police and the soldiers would likely be the people rioting.

I want to do a lot of crazy things, but if any of those things carried Mutually Assured Destruction I think I might reconsider.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 01:38 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#60959 - 11/03/11 01:40 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I never talked about voters, I talked about government.

The idea that there might be a war could be correct but you forget that if they have the majority in the government, it implies they have the same among the voters which would make the war a bit unfair not?

D.

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#60960 - 11/03/11 01:43 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I never talked about voters, I talked about government.

The idea that there might be a war could be correct but you forget that if they have the majority in the government, it implies they have the same among the voters which would make the war a bit unfair not?

D.


I suppose...

...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.

Make that between 1.3 and 7 million in a nation with over 300 million legal citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

I think we have a looooooooooong time before that ever actually happens.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 01:44 AM)
Edit Reason: fact check

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#60962 - 11/03/11 01:44 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Since you are so fond of the idea that The Constitution is always upheld, then what of The PATRIOT Act? This is clearly in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.

What about current legislation of religious morality that exists; the ban on gay marriage is clearly a legal enforcement of religious morality and, as such, is in direct violation of the 1st Amendment.

 Quote:
You know the majority of voters also support the legalization of marijuana and that is not going to happen either.


You don't know that anymore than anyone else knows that Sharia Law will be enacted in the United States. Stop being such a fucking hypocrite.

 Quote:
...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.


And that number doesn't take into account Muslims who didn't immigrate here but do live here. There are plenty of American who were born here and identify as Muslim.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (11/03/11 01:48 AM)
Edit Reason: added more
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#60965 - 11/03/11 01:51 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Since you are so fond of the idea that The Constitution is always upheld, then what of The PATRIOT Act? This is clearly in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.

What about current legislation of religious morality that exists; the ban on gay marriage is clearly a legal enforcement of religious morality and, as such, is in direct violation of the 1st Amendment.

 Quote:
You know the majority of voters also support the legalization of marijuana and that is not going to happen either.


You don't know that anymore than anyone else knows that Sharia Law will be enacted in the United States. Stop being such a fucking hypocrite.


That is a strawman fallacy because we are not talking about the patriot act.

But I will bite. I'm not worried about the patriot act because; A: I pay only in cash, and B: I have 2 firewalls, noscript, adblock, a selective premium VPN service and 2 or 3 tracker defenders. I am not personally concerned with the patriot act. It's just as useless as the prohibition which did nothing to stop the transportation of alcohol, just as the patriot does not actually invade my personal privacy. The tools are all there.

And I am a resident of NY. Gay marriage is legal in NY.
So?


Anyway please stop calling me names. Your attitude is rather dull and unimpressive.

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#60966 - 11/03/11 01:52 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.[/s]
Make that between 1.3 and 7 million in a nation with over 300 million legal citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

I think we have a looooooooooong time before that ever actually happens.


It depends what you consider long. Did you ever check the birth-rate of all different groups in the USA. If, all you need to do is calculate how many generations it needs to become a majority.

Not even including additional immigration and family reunion.

D.

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#60969 - 11/03/11 01:55 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.[/s]
Make that between 1.3 and 7 million in a nation with over 300 million legal citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

I think we have a looooooooooong time before that ever actually happens.


It depends what you consider long. Did you ever check the birth-rate of all different groups in the USA. If, all you need to do is calculate how many generations it needs to become a majority.

Not even including additional immigration and family reunion.

D.


No I did not.
So what are you requesting of me? I can likely count the number of muslims in upstate new york on two hands. If I call my representative and ask him to fight the power of the muslim threat to america he is probably going to laugh at me.

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#60971 - 11/03/11 02:01 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
That is a strawman fallacy because we are not talking about the patriot act.


No, it is not a fallacy of any kind. You have talked up and down about The US Constitution would not allow for Sharia Law as if it were never ever strayed from. My mention of The PATRIOT Act was appropriate as it illustrates how easy the Amendments can be disregarded. A Strawman fallacy is an attempt to attack an argument that was never made. I did the exact opposite of that, I attacked an argument you did make.

 Quote:
I'm not worried about the patriot act because; A: I pay only in cash, and B: I have 2 firewalls, noscript, adblock, a selective premium VPN service and 2 or 3 tracker defenders.


IDGAF what your opinion of it is, the point was that it exists, in direct violation of the 4th Amendment. Not for nothing, all that stuff you mention would not at all provide adequate protection of "The Man" really wanted to invade your privacy. And it is laughable that you actually think it would. More of your ignorance on pedestal.

 Quote:
And I am a resident of NY. Gay marriage is legal in NY.
So?


And what of all the other states that don't allow gay marriage? If the 1st Amendment truly mean anything, gay marriage would be allowed in every state. The fact remains that it isn't.

 Quote:
Anyway please stop calling me names. Your attitude is rather dull and unimpressive.


And you're attitude and intellect are that of a common sponge. I call em as I see em, always have, always will.
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#60972 - 11/03/11 02:06 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6


No, it is not a fallacy of any kind. You have talked up and down about The US Constitution would not allow for Sharia Law as if it were never ever strayed from. My mention of The PATRIOT Act was appropriate as it illustrates how easy the Amendments can be disregarded. A Strawman fallacy is an attempt to attack an argument that was never made. I did the exact opposite of that, I attacked an argument you did make.


 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

IDGAF what your opinion of it is, the point was that it exists, in direct violation of the 4th Amendment. Not for nothing, all that stuff you mention would not at all provide adequate protection of "The Man" really wanted to invade your privacy. And it is laughable that you actually think it would. More of your ignorance on pedestal.

And since I am so ignorant I am assuming you have some proof that VPNs do not work?

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

And what of all the other states that don't allow gay marriage? If the 1st Amendment truly mean anything, gay marriage would be allowed in every state. The fact remains that it isn't.

The other states can kiss my upstate ass.
Sounds like a good reason for them to get to the polls. I can't do that for them.


 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

And you're attitude and intellect are that of a common sponge. I call em as I see em, always have, always will.

So do I. So if that's how you are, then don't pretend to be all insulted when what comes around goes around, buddy. ;\)

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#60974 - 11/03/11 02:18 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
And since I am so ignorant I am assuming you have some proof that VPNs do not work?


All it would take his some Feds showing an interest in you for whatever reason and they could easily get around any security measures you have in place. We're not talking about some freelance hacker. And in this day and age, a warrant isn't even necessary. You are not as protected as you might think.

 Quote:
The other states can kiss my upstate ass.
Sounds like a good reason for them to get to the polls. I can't do that for them.


Damn, you are DENSE (observation not an insult) the point is that there never should have been a vote on it to begin with as a law that would either ban or allow gay marriage is clearly of religious origin and influence and therefore directly contrary to the 1st Amendment. You're simply being ignorant. Whether or not it is intentional is anyone's guess. Personally, I think you're really just that daft.

 Quote:
So do I. So if that's how you are, then don't pretend to be all insulted when what comes around goes around, buddy.


Go right ahead, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
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#60976 - 11/03/11 02:24 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
All it would take his some Feds showing an interest in you for whatever reason and they could easily get around any security measures you have in place. We're not talking about some freelance hacker. And in this day and age, a warrant isn't even necessary. You are not as protected as you might think.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Private_Network

VPNs have been protecting pirates for the better part of a decade now and they still haven't been caught when connected to them. If I connect to anything through a VPN, I am not connecting to that place because in reality the VPN is connecting to it for me. As far as they know I am a citizen of Europe.


 Quote:
Damn, you are DENSE (observation not an insult) the point is that there never should have been a vote on it to begin with as a law that would either ban or allow gay marriage is clearly of religious origin and influence and therefore directly contrary to the 1st Amendment. You're simply being ignorant. Whether or not it is intentional is anyone's guess. Personally, I think you're really just that daft.

Okay then, in any case I won't be losing any sleep over it. I don't really care about the federal government personally. I don't much care about other states either. Actually I don't care about New York City either. LOL Okay maybe I care about New York City a little bit but only when it benefits me.


Soooo anyway that's all I care for this thread. I'm off for now. Have fun.

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#60978 - 11/03/11 02:33 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
[quotes]VPNs have been protecting pirates for the better part of a decade now and they still haven't been caught when connected to them. If I connect to anything through a VPN, I am not connecting to that place because in reality the VPN is connecting to it for me. As far as they know I am a citizen of Europe.[/quote]

That's all well and good but I am sure the government isn't all too concerned about internet pirates. This is not to say that you engage in anything that would be of interest to them, just that they could get to you if they really wanted.

 Quote:
Okay then, in any case I won't be losing any sleep over it. I don't really care about the federal government personally. I don't much care about other states either. Actually I don't care about New York City either. LOL Okay maybe I care about New York City a little bit but only when it benefits me.


And once more you dodge the issue. It doesn't matter what you care about. My point has always been that your contention that the US Constitution can never be disregarded is false, which I have demonstrated numerous times and which you have ignored several times.

 Quote:
Soooo anyway that's all I care for this thread. I'm off for now. Have fun.


Yep, slink away with your tail between your legs.
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#60983 - 11/03/11 03:15 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
6 I think you are misunderstanding so much what I and others have submitted on the matter. No one is saying there is no possible way in the world that sharia law could come to the US. The point is because there is so much animosity toward islam and muslims in today's America the likelyhood is so incredibly low it's not really worth being concerned about. So with this in mind it is my opinion and obviously many others that the topic is raised by conservative religious extremists to try to distract from what they are planning on doing to the country. And what they would like to see happen to America is rather similar to what Sharia law might do. Thus, our focus must be on them, that we must seek to defeat all religious law and for the time being the threat is evangelicals.

so basically xtian evangelical theocracy=pretty much sharia law

xtian evangelical theocracy is a threat so in that way yes there is a threat from sharia law in this sort of transitive way but from xtians not really muslims

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#60990 - 11/03/11 03:38 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
No one is saying there is no possible way in the world that sharia law could come to the US.


Halfchaos was making that argument quite adamantly.

 Quote:
The point is because there is so much animosity toward islam and muslims in today's America the likelyhood is so incredibly low it's not really worth being concerned about. So with this in mind it is my opinion and obviously many others that the topic is raised by conservative religious extremists to try to distract from what they are planning on doing to the country.


It might be partly an employed distraction, however, to pretend that Islam is not at all a threat to all non-Muslims is pretty naive. The immediacy of the threat might not be imminent but it is still there.

 Quote:
And what they would like to see happen to America is rather similar to what Sharia law might do. Thus, our focus must be on them, that we must seek to defeat all religious law and for the time being the threat is evangelicals. so basically xtian evangelical theocracy=pretty much sharia law


And I am just as staunchly opposed to them as well.
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#60994 - 11/03/11 04:21 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
The easiest way for religious laws of any kind to undermine our liberties is for them to creep in via religious arbitration. Here is a good article, short and easy to understand considering it's written by a law student: http://asulawjournal.lawnews-asu.org/?p=373

In my opinion we should be working to remove all religious arbitration from the U.S., regardless of the religion.

Here is an interesting article comparing Mormonism with Islam. Mormons seem to come the closest to theocracy of any religious group inside the U.S. (well, other than "The Family") The Mormons are similar in a way to Islam in that their business practices are very much intermingled with their religion. Here are some comparisions, (to be taken with a grain of salt since it's on a xtian site--but interesting article non-the-less.) http://www.bible.ca/islam/islamic-mormonism-similarities.htm



Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/03/11 04:24 AM)
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