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#59496 - 09/25/11 05:08 PM Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America?
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Practicing Satanism/sorcery is a very serious offense under Sharia law, punishable in Saudi Arabia by beheading and in Iran by hanging, and probably by similar forms of execution in other countries under Sharia law.

I plan to attend this event tomorrow. http://www.fed-soc.org/events/detail/is-islamic-sharia-law-coming-to-america-and-should-we-care I definitely don't want Sharia law or any other religious law in the U.S., and in my opinion no religious law arbitration of any kind should be legally binding in the U.S.

Sharia laws discriminate against all other religions--but particularly against Bahai'is and (who are considered to be heretics) and against non-Abrahamic religions, and against atheists. Sharia laws discriminate against against females, and persecute homosexuals. Sharia law has also been exploited to persecute musicians, even though music is not expressly forbidden in the Koran.
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Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59503 - 09/25/11 05:50 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I for one would not stand for Sharia law in the US, especially not where I live. Not that I think it would ever happen. At least, not anytime soon. I've heard rumblings of Muslims demanding their right to practice Sharia law in some Western European countries but AFAIK there aren't any who want it here yet. Unless of course you count the Koranic mandate of making the whole of the Earth Muslim. ;\)

In a nutshell: FUCK NO!
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No gods. No masters.

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#59507 - 09/25/11 09:49 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
I've known Caucasian and also Latino Americans who converted to Islam and who want Sharia law here in the U.S.

One of the things many Americans seem to fail to realize is that Islam is not only a religion, it's a form of law, military and banking. Yet, this plaintiff argued by citing the U.S. Constitution, as if Islam was only a religion:

Judgement regarding Oklahoma ban against Sharia law
http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/documents/n29opinion.pdf

Sharia has a history of creeping in via family courts, even if the children would prefer their rights be upheld under secular laws:
Maryam Namazie based in U.K., is against Sharia law
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

Sharia propaganda may be creeping in under the guise of multicultural education:
American Father upset over homework promoting polygamy, Islam
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/29284189/detail.html

"Sharia Zone" stickers were recently posted in the U.K.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-UK-cities.html

Here are some Muslims discussing the "Sharia Zone" stickers:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?299251-Islamic-Sharia-law-zones-set-up-across-Britain

Here is one of the most famous English speaking Muslims of those promoting worldwide Sharia. At least he's frank:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/anjem-...submission.html
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59513 - 09/26/11 02:48 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Sounds like someone's been watching too much fox news
Sharia law is not coming to America at all and there is no substancial evidence to the contrary. This topic is no more than a right wing attempt to scare voters to the ballot boxes. Most if not all you would try to state otherwise choose to think this to justify their hate toward all muslims as acceptable, it is not. The bills against sharia are STUPID they don't need to exist because the constitution makes it quite clear that it does not have to power to create an establishment of religion. In others no religious law is accepted in the US xtian, muslim or otherwise

Furthermore you're demonstrating a complete cultural ignorance in terms of the inhabitants of the the mid east. In arabic culture science is held in high regard it has nothing to do with their religion. In fact by that logic one could say judaism is a type of lawyer.

There are no instances in the US to suggest a trend to encouraging sharia.

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#59514 - 09/26/11 03:14 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
This topic is no more than a right wing attempt to scare voters to the ballot boxes.


Scare them to the ballet boxes and do what? What are they trying to scare people into voting for? A ban of Sharia law? If there is no threat of Sharia law taking effect in the US then there should be no problem with having laws preventing it.

 Quote:
Most if not all you would try to state otherwise choose to think this to justify their hate toward all muslims as acceptable, it is not.


That sentence makes no sense, FYI. This "hatred" is not directed towards the people as much as it is directed towards the religious philosophy itself. Have you ever read the Koran? Do you understand the concept of abrogation as it relates to Islam and its teachings of peace vs. its rally cries to violence?

 Quote:
the constitution makes it quite clear that it does not have to power to create an establishment of religion. In others no religious law is accepted in the US xtian, muslim or otherwise


The prohibition of prostitution = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of gay marriage = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of abortion (pre Roe v Wade) = legislation of religious morality.

Open mouth, insert foot.

 Quote:
Furthermore you're demonstrating a complete cultural ignorance in terms of the inhabitants of the the mid east. In arabic culture science is held in high regard it has nothing to do with their religion.


What does have to do with Sharia law? And sure, some Arabic cultures are accepting of science but a lot of aren't. Also, Arabic and Muslim aren't the same thing. Not all Muslims are Arab and not all Arabs are Muslims. It is YOU who is displaying ignorance here.

 Quote:
In fact by that logic one could say judaism is a type of lawyer.


Outline this logical progression.

 Quote:
There are no instances in the US to suggest a trend to encouraging sharia.


Plenty of time left.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59523 - 09/26/11 01:09 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6


The prohibition of prostitution = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of gay marriage = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of abortion (pre Roe v Wade) = legislation of religious morality.



Awesome responses, 6Satan6Archist6!

Exactly, there has too much religious interference with individual liberty in America already! I don't want severe Sharia law exacerbating the problem! Instead of adding Sharia law and/or Sharia tribunals, we should be removing ALL religious tribunals and religious arbitration--including Christian ones and Jewish ones--ALL RELIGIOUS ARBITRATION! Tax payers should not have to pay to enforce religious judgements! That in itself violates the "establishment clause!"
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59526 - 09/26/11 06:55 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Since the US constitution forbids the establishment of religion in government why would we need a law banning sharia law? Why would we need a law to ban something that is already banned?

There is no threat of sharia coming to America unless the US constitution stops becoming the law of the land in which case I'm sure we'll have numerous other issues...

People can run around about what's in the koran or not in the book or any book for that matter but the reality of it is people are responsible for their own actions. That's why we put people on trial not the books they read. Since there are millions of muslims in America who are not terrorists I'm to wager that the koran can't be all that effective in causing violence.

And as far as Arabic culture you don't seem to comprehend the fact that tribalist ideas like the oppression of women can be more accurately described as being aspects of arabic cultures not islam. Once again I woudl site the millions of muslims in the western world and as you'll find the majority of western muslims who practice that are of arabic descent.

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#59527 - 09/26/11 10:23 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Since the US constitution forbids the establishment of religion in government why would we need a law banning sharia law? Why would we need a law to ban something that is already banned?


The United States government does not abide the founding fathers' intentions of this nation being a secular one.

 Quote:
There is no threat of sharia coming to America unless the US constitution stops becoming the law of the land in which case I'm sure we'll have numerous other issues...


The United States government has been shitting on the Constitution for a long time now.

 Quote:
People can run around about what's in the koran or not in the book or any book for that matter but the reality of it is people are responsible for their own actions.


Right, a book cannot be held accountable. However, it is the book that influences the actions.

 Quote:
Since there are millions of muslims in America who are not terrorists I'm to wager that the koran can't be all that effective in causing violence.


It's pretty damn effective in other parts of the world. Also, there have been US born Muslims that left their native land to go fight in Jihad.

 Quote:
And as far as Arabic culture you don't seem to comprehend the fact that tribalist ideas like the oppression of women can be more accurately described as being aspects of arabic cultures not islam.


And from where do you think "Arabic cultures" are taking their cues?

 Quote:
Once again I woudl site the millions of muslims in the western world and as you'll find the majority of western muslims who practice that are of arabic descent.


The point being?

With every post you make it becomes clearer and clearer that you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59531 - 09/27/11 12:13 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

Scare them to the ballet boxes and do what? What are they trying to scare people into voting for? A ban of Sharia law?


 Quote:
Not that I think it would ever happen.


In admittance of this, putting too much emphasis on the Sharia issue may contribute to fear-mongering in the interests of pseudo-populist demagogues.

I think it is more honest to emphasize the predominance of secular Western law, and the inherent absurdity of having a literal double-standard in court rulings.

 Quote:
It's pretty damn effective in other parts of the world. Also, there have been US born Muslims that left their native land to go fight in Jihad.


Jihad and the institution of Sharia tribunals are two different matters. Such Jihadists are reacting to the western military presence in the middle east, whereas those who endorse Sharia are mostly immigrants lobbying for favoritism.
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#59533 - 09/27/11 01:44 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I think it is more honest to emphasize the predominance of secular Western law, and the inherent absurdity of having a literal double-standard in court rulings.


It's more than just the absurdity of it; I do not agree with the practice of Sharia law and I don't want it going on in my back yard. Yes, I consider this entire country my back yard. They're certainly welcome to live however they want, as long as they stay over there. It's still sickening to me, but better there than here.

 Quote:
Jihad and the institution of Sharia tribunals are two different matters. Such Jihadists are reacting to the western military presence in the middle east, whereas those who endorse Sharia are mostly immigrants lobbying for favoritism.


Yes, they are different matters. I was referring to Meph9's contention that "the koran can't be all that effective in causing violence." Obviously it is. Sure, some may simply use it as an excuse for violence but there are certainly those who commit these acts violence because it is what is called for in the Koran.
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No gods. No masters.

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#59536 - 09/27/11 02:25 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
There are millions of muslims who are not violent thus the koran is clearly irrelevent in terms of creating islamic violence. The us constitution is the law whether it is followed or not but the people who want sharia are enough to launch a total gov't system.

I would be more concerned about xtian theocracy which unlike islamic efforts have seen some level of mainstream support

Arab male dominated society has little to do with islam and more to do with tribalism. The koran tells muslims to treat wives well and fully despite the fact that most extreme muslims are in marriage. Look at the world and you'll find a history of slavery, oppression of women, war,.... regardless religion

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#59549 - 09/27/11 11:31 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
There are millions of muslims who are not violent thus the koran is clearly irrelevent in terms of creating islamic violence.


And what of the millions who are? I'm sick and tired of hearing "not all Muslims are terrorists". No matter what you say, it will not change the fact that Islamic fundamentalists are responsible for more attacks than any other religion. Nor does it change the fact that there are literally hundreds on incitements to violence in the Koran. I've never once seen any Muslims protesting violence committed by other Muslims. Silent condoning is still condoning. And if it weren't for the Koran, there wouldn't be Muslims or Islamic violence so clearly it is not irrelevant you fucking idiot.

 Quote:
The us constitution is the law whether it is followed or not but the people who want sharia are enough to launch a total gov't system.


This makes no sense.

 Quote:
I would be more concerned about xtian theocracy which unlike islamic efforts have seen some level of mainstream support


# of actively violent Muslim Fundamentalists > # of actively violent Christian fundamentalists. FYI, Muslims have mainstream support.

 Quote:
Arab male dominated society has little to do with islam and more to do with tribalism.


Wrong. It's Islam.

 Quote:
The koran tells muslims to treat wives well and fully despite the fact that most extreme muslims are in marriage.


Cite verses. Remember the concept of abrogation.

 Quote:
Look at the world and you'll find a history of slavery, oppression of women, war,.... regardless religion


Events of the past have nothing to do with things that are happening now.

_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59554 - 09/27/11 12:15 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
MattVanSickle84 Offline
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Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 42
Loc: London, UK
I would say that since Islam - even it's most "moderate" forms and regardless of it's laws - is pretty much the antithesis of Satanism (as I understand it), any sympathy for it from Satanists seems bizarre. I am aware that Nietzsche (a Satanic philosopher if ever there was one) had respect for Islam but I think this is a mistake on his part revealing a lapse of his usual asserted prescience and is totally ahistorical. Islam is as much an enemy to Satanism as is Christianity, if not more so. The fact that it's laws are already applied, clandestine but known by the authorities, in the UK where I live is a travesty.
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The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.

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#59555 - 09/27/11 12:58 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

Wrong. It's Islam. (Not Tribalism)


It's both. Many middle-eastern Christians are just as noisy and violent as their Muslim neighbors.

 Quote:
And if it weren't for the Koran, there wouldn't be Muslims or Islamic violence so clearly it is not irrelevant you fucking idiot.


Radical Islam is mostly an outlet for already-existing cultural tension. The violent sentiments are a natural consequence of the inequality, political unrest, western exploitation, and dog-eat-dog mindset that has been a constant in the Arab world for the past two generations. So while the rhetoric of the Koran is used as justification, calling it the ultimate cause is an oversimplification.

Since Islam is incapable of substantially spreading into the West except by immigration, the best Western society can do at this point is to diffuse anti-western sentiment abroad by drastically scaling back military presence in the Middle East, coupled with castrating Islamism domestically by encouraging the growth of the "moderate Muslim" community.

I think this is quite possible, although the withdrawal from the middle east is more likely to be an involuntary retreat owing to American bankruptcy and war-weariness.

We've encountered some similar situations in the past. As the 19th century progressed and the US saw a rising tide of Catholic immigration, there were widespread fears of an impending papal theocracy. With the horrors of the Inquisition still fresh in the minds of the senior generation, this was not outside the realm of possibility for many people. But in the end, the worst theocratic injustices came not from an invading force without, but from rekindled Evangelical dominionism fed by a hysterical fear of communism.

So while it is important for the West to not compromise their own legal standard for the sake of narrow-minded lobbyists, a greater danger will probably arise domestically.


Edited by The Zebu (09/27/11 01:01 PM)
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#59556 - 09/27/11 01:06 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
So while the rhetoric of the Koran is used as justification, calling it the ultimate cause is an oversimplification.


This is true but you should take note that I never called it the ultimate cause. However, I think it is safe to say that it is a BIG part of it. Had Islam never been made up and the Koran never written, things in the Middle East would most likely be a bit different.

I agree that the US should pull out of the Middle East entirely. However, that will not happen. At least not until we have drained that entire area of its oil reserves.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59560 - 09/27/11 05:32 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Don't confuse my lack of islamaphobia for sympathy. There would be the same amount of violence and warfare with or without the koran or any other religion or philosophy.
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#59561 - 09/27/11 06:25 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"There would be the same amount of violence and warfare with or without the koran or any other religion or philosophy."


Are you fucking kidding me?????
Have you no knowledge of history through out the ages?
Have you no knowledge of current events?

This is a beyond ridiculous statement. It shows just how utterly clueless you are about historical events, time lines, and comparative religions and/or philosophy. Tied in with all the historical and political features of the last few thousand years.

Please go read a book about world history offline in real life.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#59572 - 09/27/11 07:30 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Morgan]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
There would be the same amount of violence and warfare with or without the koran or any other religion or philosophy.


Do you think before you type or do you just post any moronic thing that pops into your head? Come back when you actually have a grasp on reality.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59578 - 09/27/11 09:29 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
To play the Devil's advocate (since said Devil seems to have a rather dull tongue at the moment), do you honestly think that if Islam never existed, that the Arab world would simply shrug off Western exploitation, civil strife, and the Israeli presence? Even if Muhammad had died before touching a quill, the Middle East would still be a conservative tribal society that worships Allah-- and still just as resentful at the rest of the world.

I am not saying that ideology has no effect. The religious intensity of Islam undoubtedly amplifies already-existing sentiments. But I do not think so much blame should go on the ideology itself, but instead the actions that cause fanatics to invoke religious justification in the first place.


Edited by The Zebu (09/27/11 09:31 PM)
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#59585 - 09/28/11 12:03 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
do you honestly think that if Islam never existed, that the Arab world would simply shrug off Western exploitation, civil strife, and the Israeli presence?


Well there certainly wouldn't be the problem of Islamic fundamentalism.

 Quote:
Even if Muhammad had died before touching a quill, the Middle East would still be a conservative tribal society that worships Allah-- and still just as resentful at the rest of the world.


And you know this how, exactly?

 Quote:
But I do not think so much blame should go on the ideology itself, but instead the actions that cause fanatics to invoke religious justification in the first place.


And I choose to respectfully disagree.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59586 - 09/28/11 12:30 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Morgan are you so naive as to think that if koran never existed the middle east would be a place without violence and war. The nature of our species is violence no matter what mankind will always find something to fight over. The only way to have zero conflict in human society is to have no humans.

If you were paying attention to pages of history who will notice that there is a subset, religion, tribe, culture or group in the history of humanity that has not had its share of warfare. But if you really wish to believe that the absence of a book would trully make the world a better place keeping believing if that conforts you.

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#59590 - 09/28/11 09:02 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Why the fuck are you twisting my words??????
I was quoting you!!!!!!

Idiot.

Make up your mind. If you can't defend what you said, then just shut the fuck up or admit you were wrong.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#59594 - 09/28/11 01:13 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Morgan]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Meph9 is off topic. This thread is about Sharia law, which is based not only upon the Quran but also upon the Sunnah. Fiqh jurisprudence, which executes current Sharia law, includes additional secondary sources.

Sharia law not only directly criminalizes Satanism and Sorcery and in some cases punishes them with long prison sentences or death by decapitation (Saudi Arabia) or by hanging (Iran), Sharia law criminalizes many activities and pursuits which Satanists and Sorcerers living in Liberal Western societies enjoy.

Western liberties are part of the attraction for some of the people seeking to immigrate from Islamic countries, and for others immigration may be an opportunity to escape Western invasions of their countries. But keep in mind, many Americans voted for Obama with the hope that he would be less hawkish than his predecessor in the White House. Americans do not seem to be in control of what their leaders do at this point, and it would be unwise to allow American occupation in the Middle East to be exploited as an excuse to let Sharia law take root in the U.S..

Here are some examples of Sharia laws and punishments in Iran, a country which I truly enjoyed visiting, but don't plan to return to any time soon:

Punishment for drinking one beer in public:
50 lashes on the drinker's bare back with a whip

Punishment for apostacy (renouncing Islam):
death by hanging

Punishment for sex outside of marriage:
death by being wrapped tightly in fabric, partly buried in a pit and slowly stoned to death.

Punishment for homosexual sex:
death by hanging

Punishment for killing in self-defense:
death by hanging

Punishment for theft:
amputation of all fingers on the hand

Musicians who perform or distribute their own music without permission from the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance will be arrested and jailed, sometimes in solitary confinement, and the bail is typically the deed to one's home or one's parent's home.

It is illegal for women to sing solo in front of men.

All religions other than Islam and Judaism are persecuted in Iran, but Satanists, Sorcerers, Bahai'is and Sufis are particularly targeted for persecution.


Women must cover their hair, neck, arms, legs and ankles in public (even when it is over 100degrees Fahrenheit!)
Women may not wear tight fitting clothes in public.
Women must wear tops that entend to their knees, over pants in public - or else wear chadors that extend to the ground.
Women must wear minimum amounts of make-up in public.
Women are encouraged to wear black, no matter how hot it is outside, and if they wear light colors, bright colors or patterns in public, they may be harrassed and arrested by morality police.

Men are forbidden to wear shorts in public, except when they are swimming.

A woman's testimony in court is only worth half that of a man's.

A man may have more than one wife, and is no longer required to ask the first wife's permission.

If a couple are divorced, the children automatically go to the father.

Female children receive half as much inheritance as male children.

Abortion is illegal.

Women may not be judges, presidents, clerics or Supreme Leaders.

Dancing in public is illegal.

Women and men who are not related may be arrested for talking to each other in public.

Women and men may neither hold hands nor shake hands in public.

Males and females are separated in school.

It is illegal to videotape or film without permission from the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance. Pornography is illegal.
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59607 - 09/28/11 10:07 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Morgan]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
That's entertaining because my post contained none of your words. What you don't seem to realize is that is not that I'm saying people ideas never influence violent acts but that all people of all ideologies commit violence thus to single out any one in particular is just a waste of time.

If islam and xtianity and of our world's religions were never created there would be wars between different groups. Peop;e will always find a reason and when they don't see any immediate ones they'll invent reasons. If there was no koran it would some other someone wrote it makes no difference.

Now dusty you have gone off topic and have failed to present any factual statistical information that proves there is any significant movement or trend in America to bring about sharia law. There just is not, there no one with any real amount of power or influence in government working to that end in the US. Add that to the fact that your average America although they may not admit it has some level of islamaphobia and thus would be totally against that idea. So since our government is corrupt but none the less still mostly accountable to the people the sharia law threat is virtually none existent.

Again in terms of theocracy I think your concern would be much more appropriately placed in discussing xtian theocracy aka the talking points of most of today's republican party. These guys are leading a strangely successful campaign to rewrite the nation's history with the lie that the puritans were the founding fathers or that America was founded to be a evangelical religious society. Forget the fact the evangelical didn't exist then thousands of people none the less are convinced that our secular government must changed in a "christian one".

The number people who will agree with putting more xtian into every aspect of our society and government in America > the number people who would advocate for sharia law

my point is not that it is idiotic or backwards or terrible just that it is not popular here in America and is not going to be any time soon

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#59648 - 09/30/11 10:41 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
Interesting thread. In my opinion, it boils down to the same two things that most things do: People are responsible for their own actions, and most people usually act and react emotionally.

I'll partially agree with Meph and The Zebu, in that human nature and human society are inherently tribal and violent against perceived threats, internal or external.

I'll disagree with the certainty of the "same without the Koran" scenario, but I'll also disagree with 6's pinning the blame on the book or the religion itself, and with his statement that "Events of the past have nothing to do with things that are happening now."

A book is not an actor. People act. People wrote (and probably rewrote) the book, people read the book, people interpret the book, and people can choose to use the book as justifications for their actions. The book, and its surrounding dogma, are only tools.

At the same time, societal norms are constantly being modified by its members. Societies today are clearly the product of the accretion of their member's actions. People used that particular book throughout its history to shape their society, as religion is an effective method of directing behavior. Would it have been the same with a different book? Who knows?
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#59649 - 09/30/11 11:36 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Autodidact]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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 Quote:
but I'll also disagree with 6's pinning the blame on the book or the religion itself


You can disagree with it if you want. However, there really is no logical way that one can deny that Islam deserves some of the blame. The very fact that people can use the Koran as justification is proof. It's not as if people are using Green Eggs and Ham as their justification. The incitements to violence, the lower status of women etc. - these things can be found in the Koran.
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#59652 - 09/30/11 12:15 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Autodidact Offline
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The Koran is a MacGuffin. It was written by a man - blame Mohammed. It's been interpreted by centuries of holy men - blame them. It's used by some as justification for actions - blame the perpetrators. Islamic society accepts and implements it at face value - blame the people in that society.

The "Islam" in "Islam deserves some of the blame" is people. If that's really what you meant, then we agree. If you literally meant the book itself, that's as useful as blaming Chernobyl on Democritus's writings.

As for Green Eggs and Ham, well, I would not, could not, with a goat


Edited by Autodidact (09/30/11 12:15 PM)
Edit Reason: typo
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#59655 - 09/30/11 01:05 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Autodidact]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Well naturally I meant the people as it is people who wrote the book and people who make up the religion. Addendum: people who are stupid enough to believe in Islam are to blame.
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#59686 - 10/01/11 09:39 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Posts: 161
"You can disagree with it if you want. However, there really is no logical way that one can deny that Islam deserves some of the blame."

People can use any thing in the world they want to try and justify their actions, someone could use this forum to justify a violent act if they wished. But would that mean that you and I are really part of the problem? No. People control their own actions and thus they can claim any justification they want so it means nothing.

Take guns and warfare for example. People cause war and use guns in the prosecution of said wars. However if we removed all guns from the world could that stop all war? No, it might have a slight effect for a period of time but in the grand scheme of things nothing will really have changed, we will still have war. The koran is the same situation.

Who's to say in a few years people won't be trying to use green eggs and ham as justification? But in reality this has more to do with the people than the story.

But again who out there of any real importance is advocating for sharia law in the US?
Answer=nobody

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#59699 - 10/02/11 11:17 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
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 Quote:
People can use any thing in the world they want to try and justify their actions, someone could use this forum to justify a violent act if they wished. But would that mean that you and I are really part of the problem?


We aren't mandating the execution of all who disagree with us. There is a big difference between this forum and the Koran.

 Quote:
Take guns and warfare for example. People cause war and use guns in the prosecution of said wars. However if we removed all guns from the world could that stop all war? No, it might have a slight effect for a period of time but in the grand scheme of things nothing will really have changed, we will still have war. The koran is the same situation.


What is your point? I've never said anything about "removing the Koran". Yes, there would still be violence without Islam. That doesn't mean that Islam isn't responsible for its own share. Nor does it take away from the fact that this violence is part and parcel to their religion.

 Quote:
Who's to say in a few years people won't be trying to use green eggs and ham as justification? But in reality this has more to do with the people than the story.


I doubt these people would be causing all these problems if they weren't Muslim. It is more than just the people. I've heard of no Atheists from the middle east blowing themselves up in crowded places.

 Quote:
But again who out there of any real importance is advocating for sharia law in the US?
Answer=nobody


Apologist and whiny religious tolerance types like yourself are certainly paving the way for it.
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#59702 - 10/02/11 12:58 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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The topic of this thread regards whether Sharia laws could endanger the liberty of people in the U.S.--not whether the Koran makes people violent. As the famous Milgram psychological experiment shows, many people have the potential to be violent/trigger pain if they believe they're acting on orders given by an authority figure.

The submission that Islam demands, however, and the enforcement of Sharia/Islamic law have the potential to severely interfere with liberties that people in the U.S. currently legally enjoy. To allow Sharia to be implemented even in family courts in the U.S. would violate equal protection under the law. It may be the case that Jewish and Christian family courts currently already violate equal protection under the law, and if so--they should be ended and their judgements voided.

Extremist Islamists and extremists Christians have cited their religious texts as cause not only for criminalizing many liberties that people in the U.S. currently legally enjoy, extremist Islamists and extremists Christians are calling for dismantling the very Statue of Liberty itself--on the grounds that it is an "idol."

Statue of Liberty is “Offensive” to Muslims – Remove it!
http://wtpotus.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/statue-of-liberty-is-offensive-to-muslims-remove-it/

Rick Perry and the Satanic Statue of Liberty
http://bigthink.com/ideas/40027

…and this article compares the Statue of Liberty to the Whore of Babylon
http://yahushua.net/babylon/liberty/whore.htm

Before someone makes a comment saying oh, they're just kooks, or something…take a look at inroads that Sharia financial law may be making via influential Republicans such as Grover Norquist. And take a look at the collaborations of American Christian Creationists with Turkish Islamists Creationists -- who are both trying to prevent Darwinism and evolution from being taught in science classes!
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#59714 - 10/02/11 08:14 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
The Zebu Offline
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Sharia law has been partially implemented in Britain, in a process where both parties must firstly consent to the authority of a Sharia tribunal. This does not take the issue of communal coercion into consideration, in which individuals embedded in tightly-knit conservative families would be less likely to rely on common British law for fear of being ostracized by their families. The same would apply in America.

 Quote:
Before someone makes a comment saying oh, they're just kooks, or something…take a look at inroads that Sharia financial law may be making via influential Republicans such as Grover Norquist.


I doubt that many hardcore Christians support the adaption of Sharia tribunals in the US, but were this ever to occur, they would doubtless demand their own "Christian Tribunals" in the name of equality. Since Christianity has much more cultural leverage, such an institution would prove far more disastrous.


Edited by The Zebu (10/02/11 08:14 PM)
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#59731 - 10/03/11 02:27 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Again just because I'm not shivering at the thought of a threat which really isn't happening as sympathy, support or caring in any way for any abrahamic fantasy. Meanwhile as individuals such yourself are scared hiding a closet at the thought of "sharia law" religious right wing conservatives are doing everthing they can to shut down organisations like Planned Parenthood with ridiculous regulations. In Kansas the state's GOP lawmakers are putting together a list of elaborate and unreasonable rules to make providing legal abortion services too dificult, they are using their political positions to manipulate to cause ideological social change. You've got all these Republican candidates advocating for the reimplementation of things like don't ask don't tell despite the fact it has been rather conclusively shown that the policy does not benefit our military. Have you noticed that the number of people you've deluded themselves into thinking that we have a "christian nation" which was founded on "religious Principles" has increased? I mean now you can say that in public and people will humor that idea as if it's somehow something other than delusional nonsense.

So while you're disracted with sharia law buying into their game they are busy trying to destroy the foundational secular principles of our government.

In terms of theocracy this nation has far more dire concerns

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#59734 - 10/03/11 04:28 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Excuse me, but I am hardly "scared hiding in a closet". Were this to come to pass, I would quite literally be up in arms about it. And your Sharia Law that you love so much would also try and put an end to planned parenthood and other such resources so the two intersect. Do not think for one second that this issue is taking up all my attention and thus blinding me to other ones. This nation has many concerns and this politically correct bullshit about acceptance is one of them.
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#59735 - 10/03/11 07:18 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
The Zebu Offline
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It's sort of fallacious to dismiss criticism of X because Y is "more important". I'm sure many of us have our eyes on the Evangelical agenda as well, but this thread is about Islamic Sharia, not the Christian Right.

While one should not be distracted by less pressing issues, they still need to be addressed.
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#59737 - 10/03/11 07:56 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
"...your Sharia Law that you love so much would also try and put an end to planned parenthood and other such resources so the two intersect.

You're correct, 6Satan6Archist6, because abortion is illegal in all cases under Sharia law. And if a girl is raped and becomes pregnant she may be executed or "honor" killed for having sex outside of marriage (even though she was raped). In Pakistan, a virgin girl who was kidnapped and gang raped by four men has gained notoriety because her father refuses to kill her. http://www.theatlantic.com/international...s-anger/245691/
A few years ago in a garden in Isfahan, Iran a woman came up to me and asked me how many children I have. I told her that I make art and music, not children. She liked that, and then she complained that she has five children, and she did not want any more, but her husband refused her birth control, abortion is illegal in Iran, and her husband refused to grant her a divorce.

I appreciate that Meph9 is concerned about Evangelical agendas regarding cutting funding to Planned Parenthood. I'm grateful for the birth control I was able to access via Planned Parenthood, and I successfully and luckily prevented unwanted pregnancy. But no form of birth control is 100% effective, and there are rapists, so it's important to keep abortion legal.

Regarding Republican "no new taxes" guy Grover Norquist, he's partly responsible for the debt ceiling crisis --although he supports Islam, he got a bunch of politicians who have Christian anti-choice and Libertarian anti-government support to try to destroy funding for Planned Parenthood. That's quite an interesting trick, because paying for family planning services has got to be more cost effective than all the costs associated with birth, schooling, and feeding unplanned-for children.

BTW Thanks to Zebu for pointing out the similarities regarding the Taliban and extremist Christians regarding the Statue of Liberty (in another thread.)
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#59770 - 10/04/11 05:28 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Sharia law is not coming! You're playing right into their game as the religious gets closer day by day to erasing the history and equal rights in the country. In fact one might say that in that respect sharia is approaching because what evangelicals would do to the world is almost identical to what the islamic radicals would do.

The important factor about sharia within the context of the current sociopolitical developments in America is that it is just a distractionary tactic.

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#59777 - 10/04/11 10:01 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
The Zebu Offline
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Loc: Orlando, FL
It is unlikely to happen, but since it's already occurred in Britain, it's not outright impossible.

 Quote:

The important factor about sharia within the context of the current sociopolitical developments in America is that it is just a distractionary tactic


What makes you think we're distracted?
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#59779 - 10/04/11 11:03 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
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 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
It is unlikely to happen, but since it's already occurred in Britain, it's not outright impossible.

Yes, especially because U.S. law is based on English common law. When a judge makes a decision on a case, and that decision is not overturned, it sets a precedent that other judges must follow - even if they don't agree with it.

According to this report http://b27.cc.trincoll.edu/weblogs/AmericanReligionSurvey-ARIS/reports/ARIS_Report_2008.pdf the number of Self-Identified "Christians" (including Catholics) declined by 10.2% between 1990 and 2008 in the US. During that time period the number of Self-Identified "Other Religions" increased by .6%, and the number of "Nones" increased by 2.9% (It would be interesting to know how many of the the "Nones" were Atheist Satanists.) The number of Self-Identified Muslims doubled, going from .3% to .6%.

There are still a lot more Christians than Muslims in the U.S., but there are similarities between extremist Christians and extremist Islamists which could feasibly contribute to collaborations:

Alcohol is forbidden.
Sex outside of marriage is forbidden.
Dancing is forbidden.
They are willing to use bombs to forward their religious agenda.
They both focus on religious martyrs.
Jesus and Mary are in the Bible and in the Quran.
They both rely on literal readings of religious texts rather than logic.
Stoning is a punishment condoned in the texts of both religions.
Faith is valued over knowledge acquired via scientific inquiry (although there is a strong interest in science amongst many Muslims, and they historically made some scientific advances.)

Muslims also tend to have more children than Protestants, plus there are lots of Muslim refugees to the US due to invasions and occupations in the Middle East. Of course they aren't all extremists, but until Islam undergoes a Reformation there is still the default programming of harsh Sharia law.

Plus, from an aesthetic and psychological viewpoint, mosques offer giant breast and phallic symbols, whereas cathedrals and churches only offer giant labia and vagina symbols. Naturally, some Satanic ceremonies offer more than mere symbols...

Dr. Aquino mentioned in another thread that Catholicism and Christianity are currently not really living religions (in the sense that Islam is to some people now).

For all these reasons, plus the globalist Caliphate nature of Islam - which does not truly acknowledge nation states - Sharia is a serious threat to those in the U.S. who could be severely punished or executed for liberties they currently legally enjoy. The operative words are of course, "could be."
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#59789 - 10/05/11 10:16 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Autodidact Offline
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 Originally Posted By: dust-e sheytoon
Plus, from an aesthetic and psychological viewpoint, mosques offer giant breast and phallic symbols, whereas cathedrals and churches only offer giant labia and vagina symbols. Naturally, some Satanic ceremonies offer more than mere symbols...


So, what you're saying is, Muslims are giant dicks, and Catholics are big pussies?

 Originally Posted By: dust-e sheytoon
For all these reasons, plus the globalist Caliphate nature of Islam - which does not truly acknowledge nation states - Sharia is a serious threat to those in the U.S. who could be severely punished or executed for liberties they currently legally enjoy. The operative words are of course, "could be."


I'm sorry, didn't you start the post with:

 Originally Posted By: dust-e sheytoon
When a judge makes a decision on a case, and that decision is not overturned, it sets a precedent that other judges must follow - even if they don't agree with it.


Since we already have hundreds of years of precedent, didn't you just disprove your own hypothesis?
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#59790 - 10/05/11 10:39 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
I do not think that Muslims will have enough leverage to actually enforce Sharia upon non-Muslims, and I don't see that happening unless the US is somehow conquered by an Islamic country (even more unlikely).

However, it is very probable that an increase of conservative Muslims may see the introduction of "blasphemy laws", which as they have been introduced by Islamic lobbyists in several European countries, are often championed by Christians (namely Catholics) in a feeble attempt to reclaim a sense of authority.

 Quote:
Faith is valued over knowledge acquired via scientific inquiry (although there is a strong interest in science amongst many Muslims, and they historically made some scientific advances.)


This is true of Christianity as well, but we see that religions only become hostile to science once it is championed by those who are not religious. While medieval Christianity actually encouraged science and scholasticism (relatively), contemporary Christianity is backlashing against everything as a reaction to secularism.

 Quote:

Muslims also tend to have more children than Protestants, plus there are lots of Muslim refugees to the US due to invasions and occupations in the Middle East.


There are certain movements (such as the "Quiverfull" phenomenon) that encourage Protestant women to turn themselves into walking incubators and spit out as many children as possible until their wombs collapse, but such things are relatively fringe... ultimately, immigration is probably more influential on demographics.

 Quote:

Dr. Aquino mentioned in another thread that Catholicism and Christianity are currently not really living religions (in the sense that Islam is to some people now).


Hardcore evangelism is seeing a surge, but this is largely reactionary, as I explained before. Catholicism is an ideological nonentity in America, as most adherents don't care the slightest about its doctrine or tradition, or even practice anything beyond going to Mass on Christmas and Easter (which have already been commercialized anyway).

 Quote:
Plus, from an aesthetic and psychological viewpoint, mosques offer giant breast and phallic symbols, whereas cathedrals and churches only offer giant labia and vagina symbols. Naturally, some Satanic ceremonies offer more than mere symbols...


I actually think that one of the main reasons why Islam has not caught on in the West is the lack of visual resonance. Islamic art still looks glaringly "foreign", and thus it is difficult for Westerners to relate to it. Plus, we love our portraits and statues, but those are no-nos in Islam. It's simply too entangled with Arabic culture for it to find widespread currency outside of immigrants or the ideologically disillusioned.
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#59803 - 10/06/11 02:01 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
Meph9 Offline
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Let's get this straight I'm not saying it's impossible. What I'm saying is that it is far, far less likely to happen than xtian theocracy. I just think that as a nation we have a tremedous problem with prioritizing and so we should take it one step at a time. There will be a time for this discussion but I think that we need to get other things in order first. I saying we don't have time to be talking abstract hypotheticals and such

just look at the so called "ground zero mosque" stuff lead by evangelical right which was quite successful in throwing a tremendous and foolish amount of energy into demonizing the project and its leader Fizal Abdul Ramman

I mean Newt Gingrich called a commander center of terrorism and I've never seen anyone oppose that statement

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#59806 - 10/06/11 10:59 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
I saying we don't have time to be talking abstract hypotheticals and such


Why discuss a possible theocracy when war is more important? Why discuss war when the economy clearing needs addressing? Why not just talk about teenage pregnancy instead?

I'm sure most of us agree that the "WTC Mosque" fiasco was an overhyped nonissue, but I also think we can discuss the Sharia topic without descending into hysterics.
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#59916 - 10/11/11 10:06 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Here's a situation where some Amish are trying to argue that religious laws, not secular laws should rule in their case: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-amish-leader-beard-cutting-religious-matter-232845934.html This is another example of why, IMAO, it is foolish to allow secular and "religious laws" to coexist in the U.S.
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#59980 - 10/12/11 01:38 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Once again no one is trying to make the case for Sharia and other religious law

The point is the we do not have Sharia in America and this is likely to remain true for a long time Sharia is not coming

The Amish are an example of xtian theocracy running amook with the law

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#59983 - 10/12/11 07:55 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: MattVanSickle84]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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 Originally Posted By: MattVanSickle84
I would say that since Islam - even it's most "moderate" forms and regardless of it's laws - is pretty much the antithesis of Satanism (as I understand it), any sympathy for it from Satanists seems bizarre....Islam is as much an enemy to Satanism as is Christianity, if not more so....

Exactly! And it's peculiar that Meph9 staunchly defends a religion which specifically advocates not only persecuting, but executing Satanists.

Sexuality is an important component of Satanism. Here is video on the "Sharia4USA" channel, documenting Islamist homophobes telling people in New York to "burn in hell." http://www.youtube.com/user/Sharia4USA#p/f/15/V04zQQk01RU
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#60023 - 10/13/11 04:21 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Posts: 161
Dusty READ

no one says that people don't use islam to justify violence but the same could be said of every other faith in history(Satanism included)

Once again I am not defending islam I am making the point that islamic fundamentalism is not a significant political force in America and that's not likely to change very soon

The threat of sharia law to America(real world not hypothetically) is akin to a massive Earth destroyering meteor headed for the planet but that meteor is not going to come for another 200 years thus it is really far away. So being far away the only thing we can do is debate and postulate about it and so it would be silly to apply tremendous amounts of study to the issue at a certain point it's just foolish wasted time.

In the real world there is little threat of sharia law emerging soon and so as a nation we are focusing in on it and in doing so are wasting time

if one was truly concerned about this type of religious doctrine look at teavangelicals who want to do all the same things to the country
The closest thing to sharia law around the corner is this: xtians

To really fight sharia you must start with evangelical teachings first

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#60302 - 10/20/11 05:10 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Let's not forget about the third Abrahamic religion. Here's an example of Jewish Orthodox religious law being used to discriminate against female passengers on busses in New York. http://gothamist.com/2011/10/19/women_riding_the_b110_bus_in_brookl.php
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#60449 - 10/26/11 03:15 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
halfchaos Offline
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I'm just curious ... how do you imagine that Sharia Law will pass through Congress while not being ruled unconstitutional by the super lobby we call SCotUS? ...

I expect an amusing answer.

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#60562 - 10/29/11 10:36 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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The same way any other morality based legislation passes through. Ther are plenty of laws on the books, that violate the Constitution. The Government is not there to protect you. Like any living thing, it has it's own best interests at heart.

Edited by FemaleSatan (10/29/11 10:37 AM)
Edit Reason: tupo
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#60607 - 10/30/11 03:55 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Meph9 Offline
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yes PEOPLE in government work toward their own personal interests but what would there be to gain in imposing sharia law

that's just not going to win them as many voters as they would lose

xtian dogmatic based laws exist because we have a society and a nation which primarily describes itself as xtian, the same can be said of mid east societies with islam

people who want sharia law do not have the amount of money or influence to pressure law makers. If 9% unemployment does not get them working I am not sure this will

I mean seriously 14 million with out jobs...

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#60887 - 11/02/11 06:21 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
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 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
The same way any other morality based legislation passes through. Ther are plenty of laws on the books, that violate the Constitution. The Government is not there to protect you. Like any living thing, it has it's own best interests at heart.


Such as the 21st amendment that was passed into our beloved constitution out of fear that the immigrants coming into america, such as my great grandparents, were not quite as American as their citizenship doth proclaim at the time?

The constitution is nothing without they who wrote it, just as the Bible means nothing without Christ and his Disciples. It's all a bunch of never ending repetitive interpretation, and I will create my own perception TYVM.

Sharia law would never pass the House and you know it, so quit your fear mongering.

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#60902 - 11/02/11 10:16 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Fear mongering, LOL? Where did I do that? If you want to live in the delusion that the Government has your best interests at heart go ahead. I will not be the one to burst that bubble for you.

I question ANY group that wants to legislate morality. That's not "fear mongering", just operating with my own best interests at heart.
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#60904 - 11/02/11 10:42 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Fear mongering, LOL? Where did I do that? If you want to live in the delusion that the Government has your best interests at heart go ahead. I will not be the one to burst that bubble for you.

I question ANY group that wants to legislate morality. That's not "fear mongering", just operating with my own best interests at heart.


"Legislate morality"? Are you fucking high on meth, or were you born stupid? Sharia law isn't a legislation of morality. According to Sharia Law, if you have pre-marital sex, post-marital sex, adultery, falsely accuse someone of adultery, or even so much as drink alcohol ... you are fucking stoned to death in an arena of people that want nothing more than to watch you die. How the fuck is that morality?

And your stupid dumb ass didn't catch my intentional irony either, because it's dumb southern fucking christian idiots like you that passed something very very similar to sharia law when you outlawed the transportation of alcohol, then you criminalized hemp and cannabis, and people like you still exist in this country of dumbfucks to this very day.

Sharia Law will never be passed, and someday more intelligent people like the rest of us will fix what stupid dumb shit people like you pass every 30 or 40 years like clockwork, simply because that's what your grandaddy told you to do. And guess what? Your grandaddy is a fucking idiot too.

Screaming around the forum about sharia law being passed, when it has zero chance of ever being passed, is fear mongering. Not only that but any intelligent person that actually knows what sharia law is, like myself and most of the people on this forum, know that is has no chance of being passed.

End of fucking discussion. Don't speak again until you know what the fuck you are talking about.
And you're lucky my name is not Morgan or I would ban the living fucking shit out of you.

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#60908 - 11/02/11 11:16 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
All the things you listed are legislating morality. Can be done easily. Way to fail, fail, fail. As for all your ad hominins really? I haven't insulted you once.

I am not a dumb Southern Christian idiot, btw. You however are a pretentious idiot attacking me while offering no more than insults and "i like the state" as an argument.

I and my descendents will be cleaning up all of your PC, can't we all just get along bullshit up for years to come.


Edited by FemaleSatan (11/02/11 11:20 PM)
Edit Reason: Adding to post
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#60909 - 11/02/11 11:19 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
Come back when you expand your vocabulary. I am not going to argue with an idiot.

For fuck sake somebody please close this idiot fox news thread.

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#60910 - 11/02/11 11:23 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Again, another ad hominin. I didn't start this thread. OP asks a valid question. Is Sharia law possible in the US?

These things need to be discussed even if they offend you.
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#60911 - 11/02/11 11:26 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
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pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Again, another ad hominin. I didn't start this thread. OP asks a valid question. Is Sharia law possible in the US?

These things need to be discussed even if they offend you.


To which I asked you, how the fuck is it going to be passed? There are countries in the rest of the world that used to have Sharia Law and presently do not have Sharia Law anymore because they saw our legal system as a better way.

Furthermore you don't even know what the fuck Sharia Law is. I actually took the time to explain it to you, of all things, and yet you still do not listen.

If you seriously think that Congress is going to make post-marital sex illegal, then you deserve to be stupid and we have nothing to discuss.

This conversation is over.

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#60914 - 11/02/11 11:35 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
I responded to your question. All of your faith is placed in the fact that it could never happen. That is patently false and an ostrich (aka head in the sand) way of thinking.

Morality is already being legislated in the U.S. Other posters on this thread have touched on that quite well.

You for some reason are very angry at my opinion on a panel. I'm not the only one who said it's possible. :-)


Edited by FemaleSatan (11/02/11 11:36 PM)
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#60915 - 11/02/11 11:36 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Other posters on this thread have touched on that quite well.


Yup, and they're fucking stupid too.

The End.

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#60916 - 11/02/11 11:38 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
They 're stupid or you're unreasonably emotionally attached to your opinion on this subject?

I'm thinking it's the second one...


Edited by FemaleSatan (11/02/11 11:40 PM)
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#60919 - 11/02/11 11:47 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
They actually admitted that it not even a fucking issue, and when confronted about that, they said, "Well there is still time". That is a fallacy. That is just as absurd as my wanting to go live on Mars, and then you would tell me, "halfchaos, you know there is no oxygen on mars right?", and then I would say, "But there is still time".

The truth is that Sharia Law is not in any way morality. IF post-marital sex was dubbed illegal by Congress, it would be deemed unconstitutional from any possible angle. Even IF it was not dubbed unconstitutional and it actually passed without being challenged, the same thing that happened when the 21st amendment was passed would happen again.

Next are you going to ask me to give you a fucking history lesson too? You don't really need to be told what happened after and during the prohibition, right?

I was nice, I asked you to defend yourself and you ignored everything I said entirely. I said in my very first reply in this thread that it would never pass congress, and that if it did pass congress it would be challenged by the President or the Supreme Court.

This is all assuming that politicians would be stupid enough to pass Sharia Law in the first place. WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY DO THAT? The very next day their position would be voted out. You know as well as I do that they would never win another election ever again.

THAT is why you are fear mongering. You are ignoring the facts to insist upon your political teabagger ignorance.

Now for the third time, I am done. You are an idiot and apparently you are comfortable with that. Great, congratulations. Shut the fuck up.

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#60920 - 11/02/11 11:59 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
These lobbyists are trying to criminalize criticism of Islam in the United States: http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/21/progressives-islamists-huddle-at-justice-department/ Grover Norquist already has many ears in Washington. Religion can be a convenient tool for controlling the masses.
_________________________
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#60921 - 11/03/11 12:02 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: dust-e sheytoon
These lobbyists are trying to criminalize criticism of Islam in the United States: http://dailycaller.com/2011/10/21/progressives-islamists-huddle-at-justice-department/ Grover Norquist already has many ears in Washington. Religion can be a convenient tool for controlling the masses.


OK, fine. I submit to your uncontrollable fear.
Go right ahead.

But let's get one thing straight here. Instead of calling it Sharia Law, why don't you instead call it; "State Execution In Football Arenas By Stoning Divorced Grandmothers To Death Which Violates The Separation Of Church And State And Is Ultimately Done By Priests And Without A Trial" because that is what "Sharia Law" is. Stop buttering it up.
When you say, "Sharia Law", the only thing people think is; "Muslim!". Be more specific about what Sharia Law actually is if you are going to sit here as you are presently.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 12:04 AM)

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#60922 - 11/03/11 12:08 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
HA. Yeah, you go ahead and logout. That's exactly what I expected you to do, you stupid ass little pussy. I'm sure there is some program on Fox News for you to watch right now.
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#60923 - 11/03/11 12:20 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
As I touched on previously would some one like to name a person or group with considerable political influence who advocates for sharia law?

I guess I shouldn't hold my breathe waiting for answer to that should I...

Sharia law being implemented in the US anytime soon is so unlikely one might as well call it impossible. What is a threat to Satanism and Satanists and whole hell of a lot of other people is some theocratic evangelical xtian statutes. Why? Because there is sadly a growing segment of the population whcih believes that the constitution and the founding fathers completely support these supposed judeo xtian values or whatever they to market them as.

Can the same be said for Sharia law?

Once again the real threat is from the far right religious extremists who share a lot with islamic extremists. So if you want to stop sharia law from happening stopping them is going to be your best bet.

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#60924 - 11/03/11 12:25 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Wow, why is this so personal for you? The FOX News insult is lame by the way. You don't have to be a conservative to consider Islam a potential threat.
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#60926 - 11/03/11 12:29 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
I am most familiar with Shariah law as practiced in the Islamic Republic of Iran, which I visited. I liked the country and the people in general, but I don't like these Shariah laws they have there and I sure wouldn't want to see them creep into our courts via "religious arbitration" or any other method:

All women are forced to cover all their body except their faces, hands, wrists and feet when they are in public. It gets really hot in Iran, and wearing so many clothes retains body heat. It's uncomfortable, and unfair that women are forced to do that when men are wearing short sleeves and not wearing hats. If women do not cover up this much, they may be beaten in public and arrested. Rape by prison guards in Iran reportedly happens frequently. Hardliner Cleric Mesbah Yazdi publicly condoned rape of prisoners, whereas former Presidential candidate Karaoubi who is also a cleric, tirelessly and bitterly complained about the prison rapes.

Females are given heavy criminal sentences while they are still young children, whereas boys are not given heavy sentences until they are teenagers. Unmarried Female prisoners on death row are forced into "temporary marriages" and raped by prison guards or basij before being executed, because according to Islamic beliefs this prevents them from going to heaven--as they would have if they had died a virgin.

Females inherit half as much as males.

All abortion is illegal.

It is very difficult for a woman to legally divorce a man, but easy for a man to divorce a woman.

A man may have up to four wives, but a woman may only have one husband.

Females cannot be judges, cannot be President, and cannot be Supreme Leader.

Punishment for repeated theft is amputation.

Apostacy, renouncing Islam in favor of another religion, or in favor of Atheism is punishable by death by hanging.

Sexual relations with a person of the same gender is punishable by hanging.

Sexual relations outside of marraige--including being a victim of rape--is punishable by being buried up to ones waist if a man and one's chest if a woman--and being hit in the head with small stones until dead.

Muslims drinking alcohol are punished by being whipped...

Of course, it will not be surprising if some say, well we ourselves live beyond the law anyway. Still, with such strict laws, averting criminal prosecution can become far more complicated....
_________________________
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#60927 - 11/03/11 12:30 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Yes ms."FemaleSatan" I think you're forgetting the Islam and Western society have both existed for centuries and neither has succeeded in destroying the other so after all this time it is not at all crazy to suggest that its not gonna happen
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#60929 - 11/03/11 12:41 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
//Takes a deep breath//

Yessss, Sharia Law is sooo fucking terrible. It is so terrible in fact that to insist that Sharia Law has any chance of being passed as legislation in this nation is honestly so absurd that to even suggest it makes me wonder if in fact there are xtians among our forum of satanists here who claim to be something they are not.


1.) Sharia Law is a violation of the 1st amendment

2.) If Sharia Law was passed there would be riots across the country

3.) If Sharia Law was passed the only people to grow in power would be the organized criminals across the nation (i.e. 1930s)

4.) If Sharia Law was passed, the christian protestants in this country would go absolutely ape shit and overnight the 1st amendment would be abolished and this country would be legally officiated as a christian nation. Overnight there would be a new inquisition. Politicians would no longer be representatives but would instead be Gods who kill and pass law at the whim of their creator. This has been happening for 150 years.

5.) My parents are divorced because my father was a dick. To say that my mother should be concerned about being stoned to death because she has sex after she is divorced is beyond absurd, because my dick of a father could call up a priest and demand state execution himself.


DustE and FemaleSatan, unless your next reply is in response to these 5 points above, your argument is hereby considered defeated. Do NOT ignore these 5 points any longer. DO NOT reply with some other subject entirely. Respond appropriately if you desire any respect or tolerance from me.


Also make note of point #4 above. Your zealousness on this subject makes me wonder if you are actually christians claiming to be satanists in order to politically manipulate support for your representatives on this forum. The only one that gains anything from this argument is the Protestant and Catholic churches who have been fighting for more State authority for a very very very long time.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 12:45 AM)

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#60930 - 11/03/11 12:42 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Look, I feel the larger threat is Religious Extremists in general, not any certain group. I never said it's the greatest threat or the only threat. I said it is a potential threat and that it could theoretically get passed through congress.

The question was is this a potentiality? My answer is yes Mr. "Meph9". That doesn't mean I disagree with your points about Conservative Christianity.
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#60931 - 11/03/11 12:47 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
I don't really care to have your respect halfchaos. Your opinion isn't that important to me. I've seen enough. ;\)

I will take a point though.....

1. Violated every single day by new legislation passed.
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#60932 - 11/03/11 12:49 AM Halfchaos just went full retard [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
"Legislate morality"? Are you fucking high on meth, or were you born stupid? Sharia law isn't a legislation of morality. According to Sharia Law, if you have pre-marital sex, post-marital sex, adultery, falsely accuse someone of adultery, or even so much as drink alcohol ... you are fucking stoned to death in an arena of people that want nothing more than to watch you die. How the fuck is that morality?


I started reading the exchange between you and Female Satan but I am going to stop right here. YOU are the stupid one here. Sharia Law is the legislation of Muslim morality. Not yours, mine or anyone else's.

You might as well run away with your tail between your legs because after this retarded tired of yours I can guarantee you that your ass will be banned.

tl;dr FemaleSatan is right and your are a fucking RETARD. GTFO.
_________________________
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#60933 - 11/03/11 12:49 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
I don't really care to have your respect halfchaos. Your opinion isn't that important to me. I've seen enough. ;\)

I will take a point though.....

1. Violated every single day by new legislation passed.



See? That is exactly the sort of shit I am talking about.
Dumbass christian whore.

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#60934 - 11/03/11 12:50 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Tsk tsk Shariah law has been used for decades to fight against organized labor and "Communism" in the Middle East and it could be exploited here to the same ends if people allow it. http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/individuals/grover-norquist
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#60935 - 11/03/11 12:52 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

 Quote:
There are no instances in the US to suggest a trend to encouraging sharia.


Plenty of time left.




I am not particularly concerned by 6Satan6Archist6's selective ignorance displayed since the very first page of this thread.

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#60937 - 11/03/11 12:55 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Selective ignorance? Yeah, okay, whatever. Clearly it is you who is the ignorant once here. You might as well stop now, you are only going to make yourself look even stupider before your inevitable banning.
_________________________
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#60938 - 11/03/11 12:57 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Selective ignorance? Yeah, okay, whatever. Clearly it is you who is the ignorant once here. You might as well stop now, you are only going to make yourself look even stupider before your inevitable banning.


LOL
You have no legs to stand on. You and your buddies have ignored my 5 points listed on the previous page. You have ignored my point that any violation of the 1st amendment would be challenged because it is unconstitutional. And instead of responding with an intelligent response, you start calling me a retard and then you hide behind Morgan as if I am going to be banned.

Shakin' in mah boots. Soooooo scary.
You are not Morgan, little boy. This is not your forum. You do not get to administrate here.
Morgan can speak for herself, so can the rest of the moderators.

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#60939 - 11/03/11 12:58 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Dumbass Christian whore? That's your insult. Again, why are you going this route?

You have offered nothing to support your argument. Typical mysogyst, close minded fool.

You are completely misinterpreting my position on the subject.
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#60941 - 11/03/11 01:06 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Yeah, I have ignored your posts because after the first one of yours I quoted I could see that you are a fucking moron and nothing else you had to see is worth taking into consideration. It was until after you referred to me directly that I responded to you.

You accuse FemaleSatan of being stupid and a "Christian whore". Now, I know nothing about her sexual proclivities, and I don't care, not my life, not my business. But since you use "whore" as insult, clearly you are more stuck on Christian "morality" than her. And clearly you are the dumbass bitch.

Furthermore, I am not hiding behind anyone. I have simply been here long enough to know what sort of conduct gets a person booted out on their ass; and you are a textbook example. Morgan might be the one to ban you but there are several other Mods on this site who might beat her to it. But since you are the one to bring her up by name, perhaps it is YOU who are hoping to behind someone.

And who the fuck are you to talk about "intelligent response" when I have seen more intelligence from shits I've taken than anything you have ever posted?

Make no mistake about it, you will be removed, it's only a matter of time. Therefore there is point in attempting to get into any sort of intelligent discussion with you. Not only do you lack the time, you also lack the mental capacity. So enjoy continuing to make a fool of yourself; perhaps you might actually warrant a by name mention in the Hall of Shame. That is sure to be the only "accomplishment" you will ever achieve in your life being such a blatant mongoloid.
_________________________
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#60943 - 11/03/11 01:12 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Yeah, I have ignored your posts because after the first one of yours I quoted I could see that you are a fucking moron and nothing else you had to see is worth taking into consideration. It was until after you referred to me directly that I responded to you.

You accuse FemaleSatan of being stupid and a "Christian whore". Now, I know nothing about her sexual proclivities, and I don't care, not my life, not my business. But since you use "whore" as insult, clearly you are more stuck on Christian "morality" than her. And clearly you are the dumbass bitch.

Furthermore, I am not hiding behind anyone. I have simply been here long enough to know what sort of conduct gets a person booted out on their ass; and you are a textbook example. Morgan might be the one to ban you but there are several other Mods on this site who might beat her to it. But since you are the one to bring her up by name, perhaps it is YOU who are hoping to behind someone.

And who the fuck are you to talk about "intelligent response" when I have seen more intelligence from shits I've taken than anything you have ever posted?

Make no mistake about it, you will be removed, it's only a matter of time. Therefore there is point in attempting to get into any sort of intelligent discussion with you. Not only do you lack the time, you also lack the mental capacity. So enjoy continuing to make a fool of yourself; perhaps you might actually warrant a by name mention in the Hall of Shame. That is sure to be the only "accomplishment" you will ever achieve in your life being such a blatant mongoloid.


I didn't mention you by name. I quoted you without mentioning your name at all. What one person said was, "That is not happening", and to which you said, "there is still time". Yeah, and there is still time for me to get an STD. I might get hit with a meteor tomorrow night in my own backyard. Maybe China someday will invade the US and we will all need to learn how to speak Chinese.

Or ... Maybe you have no actual point to make and it is relatively obvious to everyone except you three.

Either way I suggest you use your own strength to defend your point of view and stop hiding behind the mods to support your ignorant argument.

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#60944 - 11/03/11 01:13 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
You have no legs to stand on. You and your buddies have ignored my 5 points listed on the previous page. You have ignored my point that any violation of the 1st amendment would be challenged because it is unconstitutional. And instead of responding with an intelligent response, you start calling me a retard and then you hide behind Morgan as if I am going to be banned.


Apparently you are not quite as smart as you think you are because about anyone that thinks about this for a couple of seconds understands that once a group becomes a majority, and in specific large enough to dominate the government, they are able to change, add or delete any law they want.

D.

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#60945 - 11/03/11 01:14 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
To heaven with trolls, lol.

Here is an interesting link: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c83_1315923043 Some Muslims in America are calling for bans against Shariah law in the U.S. because they are against any foreign laws that would conflict with American secular laws.


Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/03/11 01:14 AM)
_________________________
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#60946 - 11/03/11 01:14 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I always find it amusing when someone on an allegedly Satanic forum considers "whore" a term of abuse for a woman. Presumably they're not a fan of Crowley - fair enough - but really, whore?! Get a fucking grip on female sexual autonomy; and that's not just to halfchaos.
_________________________
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#60947 - 11/03/11 01:16 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I didn't say you mentioned me by name, I said you referred to me directly, which you did, by quoting a post of mine. And, actually, you did use my username in a post of yours, the very one in which you quoted a post of mine. I sincerely hope you do get hit by a meteor but I hope it is sooner than tomorrow. I would settle for AIDS but that generally takes to long to do a person in. I have made my point already, you are simply too stupid to understand it, as is evidenced by everything you have said in this thread.
_________________________
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#60950 - 11/03/11 01:20 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: dust-e sheytoon
To heaven with trolls, lol.


Uh ... seriously? LOL
I had a feeling at least one of you was a christian in disguise.


 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Apparently you are no quite as smart as you think you are because about anyone that thinks about this for a couple of seconds understands that once a group becomes a majority, and in specific large enough to dominate the government, they are able to change, add or delete any law they want.

D.


Now that is finally a logical reply I can respect. You're right, but you should also consider that the term limit for SCotUS is until death or retirement. Until the majority of the supreme court is muslim, until the House and Senate is controlled by muslims, and until the president himself is a muslim, there is always an opportunity to deem something unconstitutional.

This crap about muslims taking over the country was pulled on blacks when they could get drunk and vote at the same time, it is pulled on hispanic immigrants today, it was pulled on northern europeans when they refused to stop drinking during the 1930s, and it happens again and again.

Even if I accept that there is a chance for Sharia Law to pass into law, the truth is that it is so tiny and insignificant that to worry about it now is really more than a little absurd.


But thank you for adding logic to this argument.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 01:21 AM)

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#60953 - 11/03/11 01:28 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: felixgarnet]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
I always find it amusing when someone on an allegedly Satanic forum considers "whore" a term of abuse for a woman. Presumably they're not a fan of Crowley - fair enough - but really, whore?! Get a fucking grip on female sexual autonomy; and that's not just to halfchaos.


An attention whore is still a whore.
I don't see how it should really bother her either way.
"It's her own face she has to look at in the mirror at the end of the day"

I like sex too. Want to call me a whore?
Go ahead. I promise I won't cry about it to the Moderators.

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#60955 - 11/03/11 01:30 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
You're right, but you should also consider that the term limit for SCotUS is until death or retirement. Until the majority of the supreme court is muslim, until the House and Senate is controlled by muslims, and until the president himself is a muslim, there is always an opportunity to deem something unconstitutional.

This crap about muslims taking over the country was pulled on blacks when they could get drunk and vote at the same time, it is pulled on hispanic immigrants today, it was pulled on northern europeans when they refused to stop drinking during the 1930s, and it happens again and again.

Even if I accept that there is a chance for Sharia Law to pass into law, the truth is that it is so tiny and insignificant that to worry about it now is really more than a little absurd.


But thank you for adding logic to this argument.


All they need is the majority to vote laws. If they have that, all previous rules, term limits and agreements don't matter no longer.

D.

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#60956 - 11/03/11 01:36 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Okay people,enough with the personal insults.
Get the topic back on track without all the whore nonsense.

If you are not getting paid to fuck in some kinda trade, you are not a whore.


Get back on topic nicely, stfu, or a few people are getting a time out.

Morgan
_________________________
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#60957 - 11/03/11 01:36 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
All they need is the majority to vote laws. If they have that, all previous rules, term limits and agreements don't matter no longer.


And let's not forget that it doesn't have to be a Muslim majority; there are already a bunch of PC "religious tolerance" dipshits whom, "in the interest of sensitivity", would probably vote in favor of Sharia Law. So-called "Islamification" is already taking place over in EU, as I am sure you are already quite aware.

Now, I have never once spoken to the immediacy of this happening it is simply my contention that the roads are already being paved and to pretend it is impossible is, in a word, retarded.
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#60958 - 11/03/11 01:36 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo

All they need is the majority to vote laws. If they have that, all previous rules, term limits and agreements don't matter no longer.

D.


So the 1st amendment which separates church and state could just be thrown out of the window? Maybe.

You know the majority of voters also support the legalization of marijuana and that is not going to happen either. Considering the things I hear on the internet lately, I think it would not be too absurd to worry about the prohibition returning to us in the next couple decades.

Assuming what you say there actually happens, do you understand what would happen as an consequence? There wouldn't be riots, there would be a full blown war. The city would call out the riot police and they wouldn't get any response, because the police and the soldiers would likely be the people rioting.

I want to do a lot of crazy things, but if any of those things carried Mutually Assured Destruction I think I might reconsider.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 01:38 AM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#60959 - 11/03/11 01:40 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I never talked about voters, I talked about government.

The idea that there might be a war could be correct but you forget that if they have the majority in the government, it implies they have the same among the voters which would make the war a bit unfair not?

D.

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#60960 - 11/03/11 01:43 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I never talked about voters, I talked about government.

The idea that there might be a war could be correct but you forget that if they have the majority in the government, it implies they have the same among the voters which would make the war a bit unfair not?

D.


I suppose...

...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.

Make that between 1.3 and 7 million in a nation with over 300 million legal citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

I think we have a looooooooooong time before that ever actually happens.


Edited by halfchaos (11/03/11 01:44 AM)
Edit Reason: fact check

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#60962 - 11/03/11 01:44 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Since you are so fond of the idea that The Constitution is always upheld, then what of The PATRIOT Act? This is clearly in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.

What about current legislation of religious morality that exists; the ban on gay marriage is clearly a legal enforcement of religious morality and, as such, is in direct violation of the 1st Amendment.

 Quote:
You know the majority of voters also support the legalization of marijuana and that is not going to happen either.


You don't know that anymore than anyone else knows that Sharia Law will be enacted in the United States. Stop being such a fucking hypocrite.

 Quote:
...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.


And that number doesn't take into account Muslims who didn't immigrate here but do live here. There are plenty of American who were born here and identify as Muslim.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (11/03/11 01:48 AM)
Edit Reason: added more
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#60965 - 11/03/11 01:51 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Since you are so fond of the idea that The Constitution is always upheld, then what of The PATRIOT Act? This is clearly in direct violation of the 4th Amendment.

What about current legislation of religious morality that exists; the ban on gay marriage is clearly a legal enforcement of religious morality and, as such, is in direct violation of the 1st Amendment.

 Quote:
You know the majority of voters also support the legalization of marijuana and that is not going to happen either.


You don't know that anymore than anyone else knows that Sharia Law will be enacted in the United States. Stop being such a fucking hypocrite.


That is a strawman fallacy because we are not talking about the patriot act.

But I will bite. I'm not worried about the patriot act because; A: I pay only in cash, and B: I have 2 firewalls, noscript, adblock, a selective premium VPN service and 2 or 3 tracker defenders. I am not personally concerned with the patriot act. It's just as useless as the prohibition which did nothing to stop the transportation of alcohol, just as the patriot does not actually invade my personal privacy. The tools are all there.

And I am a resident of NY. Gay marriage is legal in NY.
So?


Anyway please stop calling me names. Your attitude is rather dull and unimpressive.

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#60966 - 11/03/11 01:52 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.[/s]
Make that between 1.3 and 7 million in a nation with over 300 million legal citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

I think we have a looooooooooong time before that ever actually happens.


It depends what you consider long. Did you ever check the birth-rate of all different groups in the USA. If, all you need to do is calculate how many generations it needs to become a majority.

Not even including additional immigration and family reunion.

D.

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#60969 - 11/03/11 01:55 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
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Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
...But on the other hand, as of 2005 there are only roughly 96,000 legal muslim residents in the US.[/s]
Make that between 1.3 and 7 million in a nation with over 300 million legal citizens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_States

I think we have a looooooooooong time before that ever actually happens.


It depends what you consider long. Did you ever check the birth-rate of all different groups in the USA. If, all you need to do is calculate how many generations it needs to become a majority.

Not even including additional immigration and family reunion.

D.


No I did not.
So what are you requesting of me? I can likely count the number of muslims in upstate new york on two hands. If I call my representative and ask him to fight the power of the muslim threat to america he is probably going to laugh at me.

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#60971 - 11/03/11 02:01 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
That is a strawman fallacy because we are not talking about the patriot act.


No, it is not a fallacy of any kind. You have talked up and down about The US Constitution would not allow for Sharia Law as if it were never ever strayed from. My mention of The PATRIOT Act was appropriate as it illustrates how easy the Amendments can be disregarded. A Strawman fallacy is an attempt to attack an argument that was never made. I did the exact opposite of that, I attacked an argument you did make.

 Quote:
I'm not worried about the patriot act because; A: I pay only in cash, and B: I have 2 firewalls, noscript, adblock, a selective premium VPN service and 2 or 3 tracker defenders.


IDGAF what your opinion of it is, the point was that it exists, in direct violation of the 4th Amendment. Not for nothing, all that stuff you mention would not at all provide adequate protection of "The Man" really wanted to invade your privacy. And it is laughable that you actually think it would. More of your ignorance on pedestal.

 Quote:
And I am a resident of NY. Gay marriage is legal in NY.
So?


And what of all the other states that don't allow gay marriage? If the 1st Amendment truly mean anything, gay marriage would be allowed in every state. The fact remains that it isn't.

 Quote:
Anyway please stop calling me names. Your attitude is rather dull and unimpressive.


And you're attitude and intellect are that of a common sponge. I call em as I see em, always have, always will.
_________________________
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#60972 - 11/03/11 02:06 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6


No, it is not a fallacy of any kind. You have talked up and down about The US Constitution would not allow for Sharia Law as if it were never ever strayed from. My mention of The PATRIOT Act was appropriate as it illustrates how easy the Amendments can be disregarded. A Strawman fallacy is an attempt to attack an argument that was never made. I did the exact opposite of that, I attacked an argument you did make.


 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

IDGAF what your opinion of it is, the point was that it exists, in direct violation of the 4th Amendment. Not for nothing, all that stuff you mention would not at all provide adequate protection of "The Man" really wanted to invade your privacy. And it is laughable that you actually think it would. More of your ignorance on pedestal.

And since I am so ignorant I am assuming you have some proof that VPNs do not work?

 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

And what of all the other states that don't allow gay marriage? If the 1st Amendment truly mean anything, gay marriage would be allowed in every state. The fact remains that it isn't.

The other states can kiss my upstate ass.
Sounds like a good reason for them to get to the polls. I can't do that for them.


 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

And you're attitude and intellect are that of a common sponge. I call em as I see em, always have, always will.

So do I. So if that's how you are, then don't pretend to be all insulted when what comes around goes around, buddy. ;\)

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#60974 - 11/03/11 02:18 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
And since I am so ignorant I am assuming you have some proof that VPNs do not work?


All it would take his some Feds showing an interest in you for whatever reason and they could easily get around any security measures you have in place. We're not talking about some freelance hacker. And in this day and age, a warrant isn't even necessary. You are not as protected as you might think.

 Quote:
The other states can kiss my upstate ass.
Sounds like a good reason for them to get to the polls. I can't do that for them.


Damn, you are DENSE (observation not an insult) the point is that there never should have been a vote on it to begin with as a law that would either ban or allow gay marriage is clearly of religious origin and influence and therefore directly contrary to the 1st Amendment. You're simply being ignorant. Whether or not it is intentional is anyone's guess. Personally, I think you're really just that daft.

 Quote:
So do I. So if that's how you are, then don't pretend to be all insulted when what comes around goes around, buddy.


Go right ahead, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.
_________________________
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#60976 - 11/03/11 02:24 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
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Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
All it would take his some Feds showing an interest in you for whatever reason and they could easily get around any security measures you have in place. We're not talking about some freelance hacker. And in this day and age, a warrant isn't even necessary. You are not as protected as you might think.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_Private_Network

VPNs have been protecting pirates for the better part of a decade now and they still haven't been caught when connected to them. If I connect to anything through a VPN, I am not connecting to that place because in reality the VPN is connecting to it for me. As far as they know I am a citizen of Europe.


 Quote:
Damn, you are DENSE (observation not an insult) the point is that there never should have been a vote on it to begin with as a law that would either ban or allow gay marriage is clearly of religious origin and influence and therefore directly contrary to the 1st Amendment. You're simply being ignorant. Whether or not it is intentional is anyone's guess. Personally, I think you're really just that daft.

Okay then, in any case I won't be losing any sleep over it. I don't really care about the federal government personally. I don't much care about other states either. Actually I don't care about New York City either. LOL Okay maybe I care about New York City a little bit but only when it benefits me.


Soooo anyway that's all I care for this thread. I'm off for now. Have fun.

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#60978 - 11/03/11 02:33 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
[quotes]VPNs have been protecting pirates for the better part of a decade now and they still haven't been caught when connected to them. If I connect to anything through a VPN, I am not connecting to that place because in reality the VPN is connecting to it for me. As far as they know I am a citizen of Europe.[/quote]

That's all well and good but I am sure the government isn't all too concerned about internet pirates. This is not to say that you engage in anything that would be of interest to them, just that they could get to you if they really wanted.

 Quote:
Okay then, in any case I won't be losing any sleep over it. I don't really care about the federal government personally. I don't much care about other states either. Actually I don't care about New York City either. LOL Okay maybe I care about New York City a little bit but only when it benefits me.


And once more you dodge the issue. It doesn't matter what you care about. My point has always been that your contention that the US Constitution can never be disregarded is false, which I have demonstrated numerous times and which you have ignored several times.

 Quote:
Soooo anyway that's all I care for this thread. I'm off for now. Have fun.


Yep, slink away with your tail between your legs.
_________________________
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#60983 - 11/03/11 03:15 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
6 I think you are misunderstanding so much what I and others have submitted on the matter. No one is saying there is no possible way in the world that sharia law could come to the US. The point is because there is so much animosity toward islam and muslims in today's America the likelyhood is so incredibly low it's not really worth being concerned about. So with this in mind it is my opinion and obviously many others that the topic is raised by conservative religious extremists to try to distract from what they are planning on doing to the country. And what they would like to see happen to America is rather similar to what Sharia law might do. Thus, our focus must be on them, that we must seek to defeat all religious law and for the time being the threat is evangelicals.

so basically xtian evangelical theocracy=pretty much sharia law

xtian evangelical theocracy is a threat so in that way yes there is a threat from sharia law in this sort of transitive way but from xtians not really muslims

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#60990 - 11/03/11 03:38 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
No one is saying there is no possible way in the world that sharia law could come to the US.


Halfchaos was making that argument quite adamantly.

 Quote:
The point is because there is so much animosity toward islam and muslims in today's America the likelyhood is so incredibly low it's not really worth being concerned about. So with this in mind it is my opinion and obviously many others that the topic is raised by conservative religious extremists to try to distract from what they are planning on doing to the country.


It might be partly an employed distraction, however, to pretend that Islam is not at all a threat to all non-Muslims is pretty naive. The immediacy of the threat might not be imminent but it is still there.

 Quote:
And what they would like to see happen to America is rather similar to what Sharia law might do. Thus, our focus must be on them, that we must seek to defeat all religious law and for the time being the threat is evangelicals. so basically xtian evangelical theocracy=pretty much sharia law


And I am just as staunchly opposed to them as well.
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#60994 - 11/03/11 04:21 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
The easiest way for religious laws of any kind to undermine our liberties is for them to creep in via religious arbitration. Here is a good article, short and easy to understand considering it's written by a law student: http://asulawjournal.lawnews-asu.org/?p=373

In my opinion we should be working to remove all religious arbitration from the U.S., regardless of the religion.

Here is an interesting article comparing Mormonism with Islam. Mormons seem to come the closest to theocracy of any religious group inside the U.S. (well, other than "The Family") The Mormons are similar in a way to Islam in that their business practices are very much intermingled with their religion. Here are some comparisions, (to be taken with a grain of salt since it's on a xtian site--but interesting article non-the-less.) http://www.bible.ca/islam/islamic-mormonism-similarities.htm



Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/03/11 04:24 AM)
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#61004 - 11/03/11 09:50 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos

"Legislate morality"? Are you fucking high on meth, or were you born stupid? Sharia law isn't a legislation of morality.


If a law, sharia or otherwise, identifies an 'offense' and then calls out a punishment for that offense then it is a legislative act.

Which leads to:

 Originally Posted By: halfchaos

According to Sharia Law, if you have pre-marital sex, post-marital sex, adultery, falsely accuse someone of adultery, or even so much as drink alcohol ... you are fucking stoned to death in an arena of people that want nothing more than to watch you die.


Here you have an offense and a punishment. These 'violations' are based on the morality of the culture and not on property loss, loss of life, loss of limb or any other law that prevents actual (fiscal) damages to another person or entity. Obviously, this was what FemaleSatan was referring to right before you went off on your half cocked and childish tirade.
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#61015 - 11/03/11 05:38 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Fnord]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Actually, every law is a legislation of morality. The moment someone, or something, states you can't do something, morality comes into play because without morality, there wouldn't be restriction.

So Sharia law is as much a legislation of morality as our laws are.

D.

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#61018 - 11/03/11 06:36 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
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Loc: ^NY
All of this is still based on a lot of assumptions based solely on fear. But I digress, I have repeated myself more than I do usually. I'm not doing it anymore. If you want to go on a crusade and start taking shots at muslims as they pass by your home, be my guest. But you'll do it without me, and without most americans I think.

As for "FemaleSatan", FemaleSatan ignored every single thing I said and mentioned something else entirely every single time. It pissed me off and honestly I'm tired of talking about it.

Your political beliefs are that of a child. Your blind hatred for everything not white and dubbed "american" is going to get us into more wars we shouldn't be involved in. That very hatred is why things like the patriot act were passed without much of any challenge in the first place.

Whatever. Believe what you want. I'm never going to conform to your herd bullshit. Get over it.

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#61021 - 11/03/11 07:02 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Your political beliefs are that of a child. Your blind hatred for everything not white and dubbed "american" is going to get us into more wars we shouldn't be involved in.


Now this is a Strawman fallacy. I challenge you to find one post in this thread (or any other) where one of us (the people who have posted in this thread thus far) has displayed "blind hatred for everything not white and dubbed 'american'". D isn't even American so I doubt he really gives a shit about America.
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#61023 - 11/03/11 07:31 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think the boy is a bit naive then it comes to politics and control.

I'm not sure if he was talking to me but if, I have no idea where he noticed my blind hatred. This far, I simply explained how things work.

D.

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#61026 - 11/03/11 08:21 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
Pretty much exactly what I was getting at D (or meant to). The exceptions are where actual monetary damages occur that don't require a moral component to legislate.

halfchaos, you really should calm down and read the thread again. Your mis characterizations of what is being said is leading me to believe that you don't really understand the conversation or that you're interpreting what is being said incorrectly.

Edit:
No one is asking you to conform to any herd mentality at 600 because it doesn't exist here. You will be asked to maintain a reasonable standard of exchange though in your time here. If you continue the internet tough guy act your days will surely be numbered.


Edited by Fnord (11/03/11 08:38 PM)
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#61029 - 11/03/11 08:52 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Fnord]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
We get similar arguments going on in the UK all the time, based on what if? Of course Sharia law isn't going to get a grip on any advanced Western nation; the idea is preposterous.

For a start, you'd need a hell of a lot of people to vote it in via their election of political leaders of that religious persuasion. Then you would need Sharia law to somehow be proven not to contravene the established laws or have steps taken to dissolve these (not going to happen). The monarch wouldn't sign the relevant Act of Parliament in any case as she (so far as I know) does not advocate the murder of raped women and enjoys eating game shot on her reserves without halal preparation. ;\)

This sort of paranoia simply gives fuel to stupid, racist groups like the English Defence League, whose members are barely literate in the language they profess to love so much and talk about "Muslamic Ray-guns" threatening Britain and children being forced to eat "foreign food" in school. Then they go out for a curry.

I'm tired of hearing anti-Muslim crap. I have friends who are (nominally) Muslim as that is their family background. Most enjoy a drink; none of the women cover up; two of them are out lesbians; two of them are transsexual men; one is a gay man and boyfriend of my pal downstairs; they all eat what they want to eat and have as much in common with Sharia law as I do with Seventh Day Adventism.

So, yeah, Sharia Law isn't arriving on the West's doorstep any time soon.
The potential influence of Christian nutters is, however, something we need to watch diligently.


Edited by felixgarnet (11/03/11 08:54 PM)
Edit Reason: Spelling mistake.
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#61035 - 11/03/11 10:40 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
You failed to understand my post, built a strawman of my views, and then proceeded to attack it with a series of personal insults. What point have you made besides the fact that you want to be a misinformed e-tough guy?

It's rather amusing to observe. ;\)


In our secular society, Religious Extremists of ALL stripes are using political correctness and Religious freedom to slide in laws based on their morality. Examples abound of the State violating the constitution in favor of "public interest" groups. Here's an example: Where I live they just passed "can't say gay". This law prohibits any mention of homosexuality in public schools. Why? It offends Christians. It is fully plausable any group could pull it off.


Sharia Law is a Religious Law that gives out a series of rules and punishments for them. It could easily be passed under the guise of "Religious Freedom".. I see it more as an issue of it being allowed to be practiced by individuals in the US than it replacing the current system. Yet. They are outbreeding us as well. A real contender for the next majority.
P.S. You picked the wrong new girl to attempt to haze, lol.




Edited by FemaleSatan (11/03/11 10:43 PM)
_________________________
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#61036 - 11/03/11 10:58 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I would agree that Sharia law is already practised in its own small enclaves. The UK has had a number of "honour killings" here quite recently which are, of course, treated as murder by our legal system. The "outbreeding" claim, however always make me uneasy. There may be more Muslims in Britain than 20 years ago - and over all they do tend to have larger families than average (3 or 4 children against 1 or 2) - however, it's important to remember these are ALL Muslims, not just the Sharia law adherents.
I'd estimate that there are a hell of a lot of big, white evangelical Christian families sprouting up in the US whose progeny remain uncounted. These people have a lot of clout already and here in the UK they are busy interfering in laws which are none of their business, too.


Edited by felixgarnet (11/03/11 10:59 PM)
Edit Reason: I can't spell "Christian" tonight.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#61042 - 11/04/11 04:05 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
femalesatan why you are assuming that the nation does not have to fold to religious tolerance. Look at tennesesse where a community is trying to deny muslims the right to worship at a mosque because they are muslim

The political situation is that the GOP wants to attack muslims rights
the system is not fair

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#61062 - 11/04/11 04:12 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Look at tennesesse where a community is trying to deny muslims the right to worship at a mosque because they are muslim


Link(s) or it didn't happen.

 Quote:
The political situation is that the GOP wants to attack muslims rights the system is not


Life isn't "fair" and it never will be. Get used to it.
_________________________
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#61066 - 11/04/11 05:28 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Fnord]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Fnord
Pretty much exactly what I was getting at D (or meant to). The exceptions are where actual monetary damages occur that don't require a moral component to legislate.

halfchaos, you really should calm down and read the thread again. Your mis characterizations of what is being said is leading me to believe that you don't really understand the conversation or that you're interpreting what is being said incorrectly.

Edit:
No one is asking you to conform to any herd mentality at 600 because it doesn't exist here. You will be asked to maintain a reasonable standard of exchange though in your time here. If you continue the internet tough guy act your days will surely be numbered.


- First you said that Sharia Law is coming to America.
- Then I asked you how exactly.
- Someone else asked you how it is taking such form exactly.
- Then we were linked to some article that only 2 people have read in total saying how liberals and muslims are actually the same thing.
---- Note: When a Republican says the word, "liberal", everybody knows they actually mean anyone that believes anything they do not believe in themselves.
-That was about when I asked what I initially asked for the 10th time or so.
-That is about when D came around and said basically that muslims will fuck and meet, just like the hispanics and the black folks, until they make a majority in this country and are able to make up a percentage of votes.
Because of their stronger percentage, which I assume is roughly between 200 to 400 years from now, sharia law will then pass because everyone in the House, Senate, Supreme Court, and Administration will be muslim, and we will start stoning the elderly and divorced women to death one at a time.
-Privately I laughed, I said that was absurd, to which 6satan threatened to ban me even though he is not a moderator. Little did he know I was already speaking to Morgan privately.
-Now the herdist Fnord comes around out of nowhere basically saying what 6satan has already said to such a finite detail that he's even threatening to ban me also even though he is not a moderator either.

Fnord, If all you are going to do is fuck 6satan in the ass and tell me Morgan or some other mod is going to ban me even though they are not actually going to ban me, then you can just shut the fuck up and be a silly little conformist somewhere else because I don't frankly have any desire to listen to it.

"Herd Conformity — That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.

So, our stance on herd conformity is:

Do it if you -want- to do it, but never do it just because lots of other people do it."


Apparently because I do not agree with FemaleBitch, FucksNords, 6jesus or D that makes me an "internet tough guy" and somebody "who should be banned".
Grow a dick, pussy.




Please take note;

Unless your replies are actually going to be logical, Like D's replies are, then they will not be read. I am 27, not 12. Bullying me into submission will not only fail, but it will amuse me and it will also empower me. I strongly advise each of you to grow up and expand your argument beyond, "This person is dumb, that person is stupid, and this person is scary."

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#61068 - 11/04/11 05:38 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Privately I laughed, I said that was absurd, to which 6satan threatened to ban me even though he is not a moderator. Little did he know I was already speaking to Morgan privately.


Hey, dumbfuck, I didn't threaten to ban you, I said you will most likely get one. How you managed to fall through the cracks is beyond me. Stop being such a fucking retard and get your facts straight. Yes, I am insulting you, yes, I was warned not to, no, I don't give a fuck if I get banned for it. So go ahead and snivel like a little bitch in PM if you want.
_________________________
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#61069 - 11/04/11 05:40 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
So wait, the argument is that islamic rule could never happen here because it it too far contra and morally abhorrent to the current status quo to ever take root?

Seems a bit of lack of perspective about history at play here. All empires fall eventually, and social norms change with or without such dramatic shifts of power. In two hundred years perhaps people of the same mind as those that would make this argument will be looking at our current state of affairs with the same sort of disgust.

Dust in the wind.
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#61070 - 11/04/11 05:40 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
blahblah blah




After all those times you ignored everything I said, you don't honestly expect me to have a conversation with you now, do you?
That's not gonna happen. ;\)

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#61071 - 11/04/11 05:43 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6


Hey, dumbfuck, I didn't threaten to ban you, I said you will most likely get one. How you managed to fall through the cracks is beyond me. Stop being such a fucking retard and get your facts straight. Yes, I am insulting you, yes, I was warned not to, no, I don't give a fuck if I get banned for it. So go ahead and snivel like a little bitch in PM if you want.


Your entire argument is a bunch of insults with no logical relevance. All you've done in this entire thread is run around in circles as if everyone else here should be scared of the fat little bitch sitting at his PC all day acting like a hardass.
I will snivel like a bitch just like I run with my tail between my legs; which is to say---NOT AT ALL. Unlike you, I actually have a life. I suggest you get one also.

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#61072 - 11/04/11 05:50 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Dan_Dread]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
So wait, the argument is that islamic rule could never happen here because it it too far contra and morally abhorrent to the current status quo to ever take root?


For fuck sake, I am so sick and fucking tired of fucking repeating myself.

Stop buttering up your fucking idiot words. Grow your 2 word vocabulary, pull your fat head out of your fat fucking ass, and call it what it is... for the 60 millionth time.
The argument is that sharia law in america is absurd because the argument depends on so many absurd assumptions that the assumption becomes easily absurd. Do you honestly think that the government is going to start killing divorced women because they have sex and the abusive ex husband called the cops on his ex-wife? Killing seniors because they are still sexually active?
We're talking about a small minority of people you idiot conformist retards (i can use insults too, see?) assume will grow from 7 million to 70 million in the next .... what? 10 years? 20 years?
EVEN IF THAT DOES HAPPEN, I WILL BE FUCKING DEAD BY THEN. Why? Because it's not going to happen until at least 120 years, if not more. If it ever actually happens at all, which I highly doubt.

You know there were muslims in the 60s too during the civil rights movement, and they were sponsoring the black community to rise up and protest. That very same black community shared their money with everybody else including the feminist movement.



And BTW, I don't have to prove your dumb fucking theories. The burden of proof doesn't work that way. If anything you said was not actually as absurd as I claim it to be, you would have proven your bullshit idiot claims of expansion with mathematical relevance. You have not.

But you have thrown around a lot of insults. I can do that too.


Edited by halfchaos (11/04/11 05:51 PM)

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#61073 - 11/04/11 05:56 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
There's no need to conform to anything here but why would you call those that disagree herd if you're not an independent yourself?

I want to point out you linking there only to be 96k Muslims in the USA. It's not about the mistake but about not directly noticing it had to be wrong. Which shows that your opinion is borrowed and not really build upon individual research.

It might not be bad to do that. Birthrate might be hilarious to you but if the birthrate of Muslims at a global level is 1.5%, it implies that in twenty years there would be 0.6 billion more and their percentage would increase from 23% to 26% of the world population. Remember, birth-rate grows exponentially.

D.

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#61074 - 11/04/11 05:58 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
There's no need to conform to anything here but why would you call those that disagree herd if you're not an independent yourself?

I want to point out you linking there only to be 96k Muslims in the USA. It's not about the mistake but about not directly noticing it had to be wrong. Which shows that your opinion is borrowed and not really build upon individual research.

It might not be bad to do that. Birthrate might be hilarious to you but if the birthrate of Muslims at a global level is 1.5%, it implies that in twenty years there would be 0.6 billion more and their percentage would increase from 23% to 26% of the world population. Remember, birth-rate grows exponentially.

D.


I corrected that mistake. I crossed it out (not deleted) and corrected that there were something between 1.3 and 7 million because various groups claim various things.

And as I said above, the burden of proof does not lay with me. I don't have to prove anything you claim. That's your job, not mine. If you're so right about everything then you can get off your lazy ass and prove it yourself. I'm not your fucking secretary.

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#61075 - 11/04/11 06:02 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
FemaleBitch, eh? I like it. \:\)

As for the rest of your butthurt, whiny ass rantings, go fuck yourself. I have remained civil to you, in spite of your vitrolic, retarded posts towards me. YOU have made no point.

As for my post on this thread, it wasn't for you. I could give a fuck what you think. I felt the need to explain my position to the board due to how far away your interpretation of my posts were.

Now, please go die in a well, thanks.


Edited by FemaleSatan (11/04/11 06:02 PM)
_________________________
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#61076 - 11/04/11 06:02 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's not my fault I can explain you how things work or how they are.

If your opinion was solid, there was little we could disagree about. All we could do is try to distract people of that fact by starting to shout or insult. But there's little need since it is quite easy to counter.

D.

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#61077 - 11/04/11 06:03 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
FemaleBitch, eh? I like it. \:\)

As for the rest of your butthurt, whiny ass rantings, go fuck yourself. I have remained civil to you, in spite of your vitrolic, retarded posts towards me. YOU have made no point.

As for my post on this thread, it wasn't for you. I could give a fuck what you think. I felt the need to explain my position to the board due to how far away your interpretation of my posts were.

Now, please go die in a well, thanks.


That's great, nobody cares. Get your attention elsewhere, dumb southern hick bitch.

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#61078 - 11/04/11 06:04 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Heh,

So in other words, you think it is unlikely that sharia could come here because it offends your moral sensibilities, and that given enough time the norms that have instilled those sensitivities into you and those like you could change.I said 200, you say 120, whatevs.

What's with the emotional meltdown anyway, having a rough afternoon sunshine? Careful you don't bust a blood vessel or something.
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#61079 - 11/04/11 06:05 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
It's not my fault I can explain you how things work or how they are.

If your opinion was solid, there was little we could disagree about. All we could do is try to distract people of that fact by starting to shout or insult. But there's little need since it is quite easy to counter.

D.


So let me get this straight. This guy started this racist little thread, and 3 or 4 of you idiots formed a little group and started ranting about various dumb shit ... and now you are claiming that you don't carry the burden of proof? You're saying that because I can't prove what you say, that you must be correct?

LOL THAT IS THE DUMBEST FUCKING SHIT I'VE HEARD IN A WHILE.
Seriously, you made me laugh. Thanks for the amusing comment.

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#61080 - 11/04/11 06:08 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Dan_Dread]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Heh,

So in other words, you think it is unlikely that sharia could come here because it offends your moral sensibilities, and that given enough time the norms that have instilled those sensitivities into you and those like you could change.I said 200, you say 120, whatevs.

What's with the emotional meltdown anyway, having a rough afternoon sunshine? Careful you don't bust a blood vessel or something.



When you can prove any idiot bullshit you say is true in this thread, then I will turn my New York vocabulary in your favor and start bitching and cussing at every tan skinned person I ever see ever again. Which is to say, not very many.

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#61081 - 11/04/11 06:09 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going back to my life. I'm sure I'll show up tomorrow. But I have better things to do than argue with idiots who don't even understand the burden of proof in a logical debate.
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#61082 - 11/04/11 06:10 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So whenever more than one disagrees with you, you call it forming a group? It could be that more people simply notice you're wrong.

You're the guy that claims certain things will never happen. I explain to you why they could happen. Surely if one group has a high birth-rate and another a low or even a negative one, it doesn't require a genius to see where such a trend will lead to.

All that is required is to do the math. This does count as proof to most.

D.

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#61083 - 11/04/11 06:11 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I've made two posts in this thread. What exactly did I say that you would qualify as 'idiot bullshit'? What are you talking about brown people for?

This is really the last benefit of the doubt you are going to get from me.
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#61084 - 11/04/11 06:13 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Diavolo]
halfchaos Offline
temp ban
pledge


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 57
Loc: ^NY
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
So whenever more than one disagrees with you, you call it forming a group? It could be that more people simply notice you're wrong.

You're the guy that claims certain things will never happen. I explain to you why they could happen. Surely if one group has a high birth-rate and another a low or even a negative one, it doesn't require a genius to see where such a trend will lead to.

All that is required is to do the math. This does count as proof to most.

D.



Translation:
D is a racist and fears people that are not white. Anyone who is not a racist is an idiot in his eyes.



Here you go, dipshit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof

Read it, now. If your argument does not evolve by this time tomorrow then this conversation is over. I have better things to do than argue with a bunch of white supremacist racist morons that don't even understand the burden of proof and who's whole argument is based on fear (even though they claim it's not, when it actually is).


Buh bye, smartie pants.

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#61085 - 11/04/11 06:15 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
lol white supremacist racist? Who has made a single argument as to race?

Ironically, kids like this get far more extreme about being PC (see above) than most white power types can muster.
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#61086 - 11/04/11 06:16 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
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#61087 - 11/04/11 06:17 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Maybe someone should explain logic to you, it would greatly benefit you in debates.

Racist = all those camel-fuckers must die because they pollute our divine white race.

Someone that explains math to you generally doesn't qualify as one.

And; you're the one making the exceptional claim; nothing is ever going to happen, without providing any evidence. I explain why you're wrong, with the emphasis on explain. I don't claim.

D.

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#61088 - 11/04/11 06:34 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Southern hick bitch? Sure. Dumb? Not so much. Do you have a fucking point besides you don't like me?

You have yet to make a salient point in this thread yet. All your argument has been thus far is the Government won't allow Sharia Law. I guess you really need to believe big daddy has your best interests at heart.

Please continue to insult me all you want. Should make your ban come faster.


On a side note, you're the attention whore. ;\)
_________________________
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#61090 - 11/04/11 06:59 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: halfchaos]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: halfchaos
Your entire argument is a bunch of insults with no logical relevance. All you've done in this entire thread is run around in circles as if everyone else here should be scared of the fat little bitch sitting at his PC all day acting like a hardass.
I will snivel like a bitch just like I run with my tail between my legs; which is to say---NOT AT ALL. Unlike you, I actually have a life. I suggest you get one also.


Wrong. Just because you are too stupid to understand my argument does not mean I am lacking one; it simply means you are too stupid to understand it.

And as for insults, don't act as if you are innocent there. I laugh at the fact that you call me fat and say that I don't have a life as that is most certainly not the case. All that's missing is you threatening to kick my ass.

So go ahead and continue to prove how stupid you are and I will continue to laugh at you.

Edit:

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law


\:D Yeah, it was only a matter of time until it came down to it. "You're all a bunch of Nazis and therefore your argument is invalid and I am right."

I am seriously starting to wonder just what the fuck happened to this place when someone like halfchaosfullretard is allowed to continue to post.

Also funny is him saying he was leaving for the day because he has so much more important stuff to do yet stuck around to post more inane bullshit. At least it is providing me some entertainment on my day off.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (11/04/11 07:07 PM)
Edit Reason: marked
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#61114 - 11/04/11 11:37 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Oh the kid got a time-out.

What's amusing is that he accuses all of being part of a herd for disagreeing with his opinion while he is in fact just sharing the Leftist doctrine.

I've been involved with that crowd in the past and occasionally I still mingle and it's amazingly easy to blend in. It's always the same reasoning and when that fails, use racism. That should do it. If you state a fact which doesn't mix with their opinions, you're a racist. It doesn't matter if this fact is right, you do not talk about it or if, blame it all upon something else.

Now mind you, if you mingle with the extreme right, it's similar. If you talk the talk there, you're also accepted in no time.

D.

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#61123 - 11/05/11 05:53 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-10-18/us/tennessee.mosque_1_mosque-construction-site-worship?_s=PM:US

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jul/19/tennessee-mosque-construction-slowed-controversy/

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20100617/NEWS06/6170326/Murfreesboro-mosque-plan-ignites-backlash

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#61135 - 11/05/11 02:16 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Meph9, if you are going to post fucking links explain why you are posting them.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#61138 - 11/05/11 02:27 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
Yeah, I heard about that. There is some question as to rather that mosque is tied to terrorist organizations. I don't think what is going on there is right. But...

I always wonder what the motivation is for putting up a mosque (or any building) where it's not wanted. It just adds fuel to the fire and gives the PC machine more fuel for legislation to further tamp down civil rights. I may not agree with the citizens of Murfreeboro, but they should have the right to say not in my back yard. Even if it offends. \:\)
_________________________
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#61155 - 11/05/11 09:40 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Who would put something there that's not wanted? Hmm...maybe because the muslims of the community would like the mosque to pray at??That would be the point of a mosque

That's just an incredibly stupid idea...I mean why don't you go out and tell everyone where you live you're a satanist and if most people don't like that move because clearly it's there choice where you live, right?

Since when in America is it acceptable to as you say "not in my back yard"

should they to say no black people in my "backyard"
or no gays in my "backyard"
or should they be allowed to mexicans if they want
should they be say no women allowed in my community

What if the muslims in the town decided no baptists what do think the coverage would be? I mean seriously you really think that people should have the right to take other people's constitutional rights if they want under the law?

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#61157 - 11/05/11 10:41 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Yes, people should be allowed to say whatever they want.

 Quote:
What if the muslims in the town decided no baptists


They would have a hard time doing anything about it being they are the minority.

 Quote:
I mean seriously you really think that people should have the right to take other people's constitutional rights if they want under the law?


It's not really taking away anyone's constitutional rights. No one is saying they can't be Muslim or that they can't practice their religion, they're just saying the don't want a mosque built. There is nothing in the Constitution that says people are guaranteed a place or worship, just that they have the right to practice their religion. Last I checked, a place of worship is not necessary to practice religion.
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#61163 - 11/06/11 01:09 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Again you simply are failing to see the point that just because any group is a "majority" there are rights and considerations that belong to all citizens that the law should not allow anyone to take away. The people in Murfreesburo have filed several legal challenges in court so they very much are trying to take the right of the muslim citizens to build what they choose on property they own.

Unless zoning laws have been violated, which I don't believe they have, they don't get a choice as to what someone builds on there own property. Those can be as unhappy as they but the law says they don't get a vote, they don't get a choice.

The only thing they might legally have is imminenet domain, but I think that would require there to be some pre-existing good to be serviced. They have no legal right to stop from building it, it's that simple.

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#61164 - 11/06/11 01:09 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Again you simply are failing to see the point that just because any group is a "majority" there are rights and considerations that belong to all citizens that the law should not allow anyone to take away. The people in Murfreesburo have filed several legal challenges in court so they very much are trying to take the right of the muslim citizens to build what they choose on property they own.


Unless zoning laws have been violated, which I don't believe they have, they don't get a choice as to what someone builds on there own property. Those can be as unhappy as they but the law says they don't get a vote, they don't get a choice.

The only thing they might legally have is imminenet domain, but I think that would require there to be some pre-existing good to be serviced. They have no legal right to stop from building it, it's that simple.


I didn't say they weren't trying to take away their right to "build what they choose on property they own." What I said was their right to practice their religion was not being taken away. Which is what you were alluding to in the post I responded to.

Now, you can talk until you are blue in the face how it is "wrong" and they "shouldn't" be able to do it but that doesn't change the fact they can. It's easy enough for a city official to not issue a building permit for any number of "legitimate" (read: nonreligious) reasons. Or they could determine that the building doesn't fit zoning requirements. Or they could use any number of legal loopholes to keep the mosque from being built.

Hell, there used to be a store in town called "Wasted Youth" that specialized in hard-to-find punk and metal releases (vinyl, cassette, cds) as well as shirts, comic books and other cool stuff. The church down the street took an issue with this store "corrupting the youth" and the store was eventually shut down on some bullshit reason of "suspected drug deals out of the store". In a free-market everyone has the "right" to operate a business, just as much as everyone has the "right" to build what they want on property they own (to an extent) but that fact didn't stop my favorite store in this shitty town from being closed down. That it was "wrong" and it "shouldn't have been able to happen" doesn't matter; it did happen.

It's that simple.

Edit: My point about the minority was not that the majority has the right to take rights away from the majority (though, in effect, they do because it happens all the time). My point was that if the Muslims decided "no Baptists", as per your hypothetical situation, they would have a hard time enforcing that policy since they were the minority. Like I've said to many other people already: stop misrepresenting my arguments.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (11/06/11 01:14 AM)
Edit Reason: marked
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#61166 - 11/06/11 03:12 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Funny how we should be bringing up issues involving "majorities" and "minorities" considering that back to the original topic it was my point that those who would like to see sharia law are a minority and thus would have a very do that. So because most people aka the majority would reject it sharia law very little chance of happening in America any time soon. Murfreesburo is one example of the millions of people who across the country would try to do anything to stop it.
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#61169 - 11/06/11 04:52 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
How many times does it have to be said before it sinks it in?

No one has said it is an immediate threat, just that it is something to consider and that to think it is impossible is naive. Secondly, it has been pointed out numerous times that it wouldn't necessarily require a Muslim majority to enact these laws as there are people (like you) who are all about religious freedom, religious tolerance and the right of people to practice their religion.

You're just talking in circles at this point.
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#61170 - 11/06/11 05:08 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
And as I'll state for the final time while I respect the will of others to practice what every religion they please no matter how stupid the constitution does not allow for the establishment of religion in government and thus I do support any attempt to suggest otherwise

I do not support the collusion of government and religion that violates the constitution and so accusation that I would in any way be supportive of any religious based law system on the grounds of religious freedom is simply false

as I've said before the rights of any individual under the law end when they take away the rights of another, like when they try to tell someone what they can or cannot build on land they own or trying to execute someone for insulting the "prophet" muhammed

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#61179 - 11/06/11 08:49 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
RAIDER Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
My concern is that the herd can be manipulated at times of financial crisis. Hitler came into power at a time when Germany was very fearful...he was considered a joke at the onset, but gradually took over. The Jew as scapegoat worked in his favor.

Also, since we still don't have a complete separation of church and state( we really don't), the notion that a religious order could seep into our goverment and legal system and have great effect isn't impossible.
Our currency still reads "in god we trust", we swear on the Judeo Christian bible in courts,... 14 ststes, Puerto Rico and the military had sodomy laws until recently, some states still attempt to enforce these laws even though they've been found unconstitutional...these are based on 'public morality'...one guess as to what 'public morality' is based on.
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#61184 - 11/06/11 10:19 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
You have completely misinterpreted my post. What does types of people living in a community have to do with what I wrote??

A gay couple living in a neighborhood is a fail as a comparison. A better one would be are the citizens of a conservative, family oriented community allowed to say no to a gay nightclub on the corner? Answer: yes. It happens all the time by the way. Citizens of a community will vote down the building of businesses, HUD housing, hell even churches in their neighborhood, their community. That's what I said, they have the right to say not in my backyard.

My biggest bone of contention with building a mosque (or any building, again damn) where it's not wanted is fairly "humane". If I was a Muslim, I'm not going to the unwanted mosque. I wouldn't want to deal with the vitrolic bullshit associated with it. I would go where I was wanted. There are several mosques and a large and relatively accepted Muslim community in the Nashville area.

Building it after the controversy involved, makes me question why. It creates an unnecesary amount of drama. It fans the flames that are already burning in this country.

If we take the right to say "not in my backyard" to shit, all Americans lose. We lose the right to vote things down things, influences that are unwanted in our communities, for whatever reason. If the citizens of Murfreesboro can't so no to a mosque, what prevents Sharia Law being passed due to "religious tolerance."
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#61194 - 11/06/11 04:53 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
the constitution does not allow for the establishment of religion in government


And yet, it still happens. You are welcomed to be as brainwashed as you like in thinking the Constitution even matters anymore just know that you're wrong.
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#61205 - 11/06/11 08:05 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
How lucky for Muslims in the Western Liberal U.S. that they can even appeal to the free speech amendment in the U.S. Constitution. Under Shariah law there is no religious free speech for anyone who stops being a Muslim. The Islamic Republic of Iran government is planning to execute this guy for apostasy: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/11/04/...3_lnk1%7C110149
Thank goodness the IRI isn't watching my friends in Iran too closely. Many of them are self-professed Atheists or Satanists. They could be executed same as that Christian, for violating Shariah law.
_________________________
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#61218 - 11/06/11 11:09 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
And you 6 can be as fearful of the negligible threat of sharia law as long you like but there are you aren't buying it. Would it be bad for it to happen in America? Yes, but I just can't imagine that happening anytime soon. Especially since we've got so many republicans and self identified conservatives out there on constant watch to make sure it does not happen diverting public attention to any possible chance that might involve it so they can distract us from their plans for the country.

this topic is dead I'm done running the same jive

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#61233 - 11/07/11 10:35 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Millions of devout Muslims throw stones at pillars representing Satan. What might they do with a Satanist?

http://youtu.be/83Es_PZd170
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#61254 - 11/08/11 02:38 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Millions of devout Muslims throw stones at pillars representing Satan. What might they do with a Satanist?

Kill him

but again dusty you're but this is largely irrelavent

sharia is brutal and backward and thus I will never support it

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#61255 - 11/08/11 05:12 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
sweetasdeath Offline
banned
lurker


Registered: 11/08/11
Posts: 1
im muslim ..maybe some of wht muslim ppl do is wrong ..but most satanist are bad thats 4 sure




Troll is banned.... Morgan


Edited by Morgan (11/08/11 01:15 PM)
Edit Reason: information

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#61256 - 11/08/11 05:30 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: sweetasdeath]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Piss off, troll.
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#61557 - 11/18/11 07:35 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Occupy Wall Street: A venue for Islamists and other democrats who want to see an "Arab Spring" in America. "Allah-o-Akbar... This is what Democracy looks like!" So long as these people are among the 99%, then it's not a 99% that I want to be part of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xebI1auqMgY&feature=related

Organized Islamists, of the kind being hosted by OCCUPY, have been able to impose Islamic Law in major Western cities, while being a miniscule fraction of the national population of the countries in which those cities are located: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2VkIu8TL_I&feature=related See also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jAC2ymmviQThe "Arab Spring" elects Islamists in Tunisia: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,793595,00.html

Tunisia Tastes Democracy: Early Results Point to Victory for the Islamists
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,793595,00.html

The "Arab Spring" establishes a Sharia regime in Libya: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6W9Qylrmn8&feature=related

NTC Announces Shariah Law in Libya
http://www.youtube.comhttp://www.youtube...s-for-west.html

Egypt’s Simmering Rage
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...s-for-west.html
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#61578 - 11/18/11 08:03 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Talking about Sharia law "going" to Libya or any other country in the Middle East is like saying "breaking news, sand found in desert". Sharia law has always been there so it should be no surprise to those who are familiar with the region's history.
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#61580 - 11/18/11 09:39 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Libya, Egypt, Tunisia, Iraq and Iran all had secular dictators that the U.S. government helped overthrow.

Sharia law is a relatively new system of laws. There were many religions in the area before Islam, before Christianity and before Judaism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenicia#Phoenician_gods_of_the_sea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_people#Yazidis
Ya know, Meph9 I really get the feeling you've never been to the Middle East. You're opinions about it always have that second-hand, ill-informed patina.


Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/18/11 10:04 PM)
Edit Reason: added links
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#61582 - 11/19/11 04:02 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
And which one of the aforementioned traditions have grown to promenence over the last few decades? Zero because all the religions you mention are from ancient times and this discussion is about the modern age.
Of course the ancient egyptians didn't have sharia because it didn't exist yet.

Fact is every country in that region from the most radical to the most secular elements of sharia exist in their law systems. Sharia inspired law can be found in every nation of the region.

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#61590 - 11/19/11 02:19 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
 Quote:
...which one of the aforementioned traditions have grown to promenence over the last few decades? Zero because all the religions you mention are from ancient times and this discussion is about the modern age.
Ancient Egyptian, Phoenician, Manichaeian religions are very influential upon contemporary persons in high positions of power who are exploiting the Abrahamic religions as tools for mind control. Seriously, get your head out of the sand.


Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/19/11 02:23 PM)
_________________________
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#61611 - 11/19/11 10:43 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Yeah but I'm going to bet islam yeah, a little more infuential, just a little

...hence the sharia law being practiced in some form in just about every single country in that region save for Israel. So if you are implying that this is perhaps not true I welcome your evidence.

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#61653 - 11/21/11 07:22 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I thought this link was interesting in light of this conversation.

Rule of Lord
The Republican plan to nullify the courts and establish Christian theocracy.
By William Saletan

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_p...ty_.single.html
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#61655 - 11/22/11 03:07 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Morgan]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Thank you for this post the article is great and really highlights a bit of what I was trying to communicate on this topic.

It's interesting just how little scrutiny things like this get, I mean you've got a bunch of people outright declaring they want to subvert the law and the constitution is ways that your average American probably wouldn't agree... and the response from just about everyone in the press is nothing.

It would seem that what some of our Republican "friends" would like to see happen might in fact put us on a course strictly similar to the one sharia law would take us. So really shouldn't we be righting legislation to stop them?

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#61658 - 11/22/11 09:56 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Morgan]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
...The Republican plan to nullify the courts and establish Christian theocracy...
As I said earlier in this post, ALL religious laws and religious courts must be banned in the U.S. if we want this to be a secular country that allows freedom of religion while still keeping equal protection under the law (for children of religious parents).

Of course Abrahamic religious laws could be a useful tool for enslaving the masses. If it is enforced with that end in mind, then the impact it has upon Satanists could depend on whether we "Are a Satanist in Public," and whether we are of the slaveowner class.

The Bible demands stoning as punishment, not only the Qaran http://muslim-responses.com/Bible_Stoning/Bible_Stoning_



Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/22/11 10:15 AM)
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Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#61659 - 11/22/11 10:28 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 555
Loc: The Dirty South
I don't think writing new legislation to stop them is the solution. There are enough laws on the books. Less government (really none) is more my personal stance.

The US government should uphold the constitution and eliminate laws based on religious mandates.

FS3.0
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#61665 - 11/22/11 02:02 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: FemaleSatan]
AuntFlow Offline
lurker


Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Califorina, United States of A...
"Unlike Islam, where the higher law and the civil law are the same, in our case, we have civil laws. But our civil laws have to comport with the higher law." - Rick Santorum. So let me get this right, if we follow the "higher law of christian" that would mean polygamy, rape, and murder could be protected under the higher law. These fundamentalist christians really should reevaluate their scripture. Instead of using the gay-marriage and pro-life platforms to gain support.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." - First amendment. Christian values are in complete defiance of what our country values were intended to be.

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#61670 - 11/22/11 04:16 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: AuntFlow]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
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Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Seems like Santorum is laying the groundwork for a realization among more people in the U.S. that Islam and Biblical Christianity are not as different as it commonly portrayed. Santorum's following statement would receive full support from hardliner Muslim clerics in Iran, where abortion is illegal: “As long as abortion is legal in this country . . . we will never have rest because that law does not comport with God’s law,” said former Pennsylvania senator Rick Santorum. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/11/21...=hide&via=blog_

When it comes to women's rights, seems like women were pretty much treated like property in the Bible. At least in Islam, they are recognized as people with some rights of their own. Things were much better for pre-Abrahamic women in Europe. According to The Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets, by Barbara G. Walker, property in ancient Europe was passed down matrilinearly, and the inquisition was essentially a giant land grab. All the Inquisitors had to do was accuse a woman of witchcraft, in order to seize the family property.

As mentioned by members in posts above, showing the unconstitutionality of religious law is a way to fight it. Seeing as how the Constitution has been severely weakened post 911 I would not rely on this tactic only though. Perhaps one could ponder, what would be a RELIGIOUS equivalent of 911, that could be used to devastate any parts of American law that protect citizens from theocracy or religious totalitarianism? Seems to be that if a political strategist was trying to unify Christianity and Islam in the U.S. while still keeping money flowing to Israel, that the obvious group to "demonize" would be Satanists. If the goal is to enslave lots of people, though, labor organizations would also have to be demonized. So, logically, there would have to be a giant "Satanic Communist" false flag event or situation created, to scare lots of people and herd them.


Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/22/11 04:50 PM)
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#61839 - 11/25/11 11:22 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Ohio Inmates Sue Over Meal Preparation. They demand that the meat served to them in prison to come from animals slaughtered according to their religious law. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/03/ohio-muslim-inmates-sue-halal_n_992387.html This could make for an interesting fight versus animal rights activists who already complain about slaughterhouse practices. Halal slaughter practices forbid stunning the animal before it's throat is slit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhabihah#Controversies_on_animal_welfare

Edited by dust-e sheytoon (11/25/11 11:30 PM)
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#61895 - 11/27/11 12:43 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Male nurse files sex discrimination suit after being fired for treating Muslim women in Michigan. http://news.yahoo.com/nurse-says-fired-over-treating-muslim-women-164322662.html
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Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#61897 - 11/27/11 02:50 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
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Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
And the point of these link latent post was?
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#62381 - 12/08/11 06:41 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: dust-e sheytoon

As mentioned by members in posts above, showing the unconstitutionality of religious law is a way to fight it. Seeing as how the Constitution has been severely weakened post 911 I would not rely on this tactic only though. Perhaps one could ponder, what would be a RELIGIOUS equivalent of 911, that could be used to devastate any parts of American law that protect citizens from theocracy or religious totalitarianism? Seems to be that if a political strategist was trying to unify Christianity and Islam in the U.S. while still keeping money flowing to Israel, that the obvious group to "demonize" would be Satanists. If the goal is to enslave lots of people, though, labor organizations would also have to be demonized. So, logically, there would have to be a giant "Satanic Communist" false flag event or situation created, to scare lots of people and herd them.
The reason that Muslim interests get so much attention is different from the reason the Jewish lobby or the Christian lobby get so much attention. Muslim interests get attention because Muslims will kill you. The fact is, while people have certainly come to fear and dislike Muslims more since 9/11, Islam has contemporaneously become a cultural force to be reckoned with. People are afraid to publish cartoons, they make public apologies, they grant interviews to people who are "offended"... It is the manipulation of "wonder" per LaVey's LBM all the way.

You are right to say we can't rely on the Constitution to guarantee justice. The language of the Constitution will be reinterpreted to mean whatever lawmakers want. They will say, "well obviously the founding fathers would have agreed with THIS exception." They have already done this quite thoroughly. In fact, some of what the Constitution says is so extreme that they must for the sake of law and order. "The freedom of speech shall not be abridged." That is very clear language, but lawmakers and courts have never applied it literally. Our freedom of speech is abridged to the extent that it must be to safeguard commerce, safety, reputations, the truth, intellectual property, etc. etc. etc.

Fortunately, it is in the best interest of lawmakers and judges to exercise their powers within some semblance of reason; the lawmakers because they need reelection, the judges because they are vain.

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#62424 - 12/09/11 11:28 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Apotheosis]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
My Apatheosis what interesting rationale you...

 Quote:
The reason that Muslim interests get so much attention is different from the reason the Jewish lobby or the Christian lobby get so much attention. Muslim interests get attention because Muslims will kill you.


This is a laughable statement considering the facts that people of all social categrories will as you say "kill you" if they find it necessary. So this a nonpoint

Second seeing as how the Catholic Church for example is most certainly a xtian group and that the church has aided and supported social turmoil, the Inquistion and the Crusades.
Whether you meant to express or nnt your logic here seem to be based in the idea that Islam and xtian are polar opposites.
And not to forget about the Jews so look up a group called Massad, they'll you too.

 Quote:
You are right to say we can't rely on the Constitution to guarantee justice. The language of the Constitution will be reinterpreted to mean whatever lawmakers want.


Next I like to clear up this misunderstanding and that means the Constitution of the USA is the supreme law. There is no law without the foundation that is the constitution. So how about we just get back to the constitution instead up coming with new reasoning on how to stop subverting it.

Furthermore politicians and elected leaders do not have the power to simply add amendments without the people's consent. To do otherwise would bring a firestorm of real constitutionalists down on your head you would not get away with without a fight.
Look at Obama care which the supreme court soon be ruling on, deciding, using their legal right to review and challenge laws


 Quote:
In fact, some of what the Constitution says is so extreme that they must for the sake of law and order. "The freedom of speech shall not be abridged." That is very clear language, but lawmakers and courts have never applied it literally. Our freedom of speech is abridged to the extent that it must be to safeguard commerce, safety, reputations, the truth, intellectual property, etc. etc. etc.


And which portions of the constitution were as you it "so extreme"? Well I think we can count the bill of rights out, just a hunch...

I am not sure you understand much of the constitution and its vital guidelines that should be at the root of all laws. Freedom speech means you can't be imprisoned by the state for saying some, you can not be made a political prisoner, it does not mean you get to talk every where you want and have no consequences when that infringes on others rights. There are many rights and expectations that the American people have allowed to taken but freedom of speech is not one. In countries around the world if one talks bad about the government they will be labeled enemies and be dealt with accordingly not for doing any thing but expressing an opinion not endorsed by the state. That is what the founding fathers wanted to here in America.

And once who are the people with significant interest and control over the political system to advocate sharia law? Last time I checked Al Qaeda did not get a vote in the Congress the closest thing we've got is the GOP. That combined by the continuing fear our mundane countrymen has toward the evil muslims(gasp)

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Fortunately, it is in the best interest of lawmakers and judges to exercise their powers within some semblance of reason; the lawmakers because they need reelection, the judges because they are vain.


Finally I must once again remind you that the US government was established by "We the people" and thus we the people are the ones with the true power over it. The problem is ignorance and apathy many have been made to believe they are powerless, the peoople have the power and if we choose as a collective to take all those powers that are our birth rights this country will have a more prosperous future

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#62433 - 12/09/11 12:39 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: Meph9

This is a laughable statement considering the facts that people of all social categrories will as you say "kill you" if they find it necessary. So this a nonpoint
Forgive me for not spoonfeeding you the obvious differences in motives and frequency. I should have made that explicit.
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your logic here seem to be based in the idea that Islam and xtian are polar opposites.
That's not the basis of my logic at all.You should have asked me, instead of jumping to a conclusion about my thinking, if you wanted to be right.
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Furthermore politicians and elected leaders do not have the power to simply add amendments without the people's consent. To do otherwise would bring a firestorm of real constitutionalists down on your head you would not get away with without a fight.
Look at Obama care which the supreme court soon be ruling on, deciding, using their legal right to review and challenge laws
Are you saying that you believe universal healthcare will be met with a show of force? The proof will be in the pudding on that one. There may be a few conservative gunmen who kill some liberals. Maybe even a militia headquarters will be raided by the FBI. But I doubt the minutemen are going to stand in the way of the Commander in Chief on this one.
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Freedom speech means you can't be imprisoned by the state for saying some, you can not be made a political prisoner, it does not mean you get to talk every where you want and have no consequences when that infringes on others rights.
You have described the law of the land in fair terms. That is not however the literal meaning of the phrase "freedom of speech".

When you are born, before anyone told you what you ought to say, and ought not to say, what did you do? You made a lot of senseless noise. As you grew up, your speech was tempered by the society around you. Your freedom to speak was abridged. If no one's freedom to speak was abridged, we would live in a society characterized by nonsense.

So our freedom of speech has been abridged, in direct negation of the language of the first amendment, and this is a good thing.

What you have accurately described is the judicial interpretation of the first amendment. What I am saying is a disagree with that interpretation. So your reiteration of that interpretation here is not insightful.
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In countries around the world if one talks bad about the government they will be labeled enemies and be dealt with accordingly not for doing any thing but expressing an opinion not endorsed by the state. That is what the founding fathers wanted to here in America.
How the hell do you know what the founding fathers wanted, aside from what they wrote? Quote the Constitution, as I have done, and I will hear your opinion about what the founding father's wanted.

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#62446 - 12/09/11 07:01 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
Just to clarify a little further on the issue of free speech, I real briefly mentioned that the people around us put limits on our freedom of speech when we are children. The Constitution limits the powers of the Federal government, according to the Constitution, preventing it from abridging our speech. But we are forbidden from shouting fire in crowded theaters. That is an abridgment of our originally free speech, the speech that was also limited by family and society in our youth, or should have been. The Federal government also limits our speech in matters of defamation, false advertisement... I already listed a number of ways in which this originally free speech is limited by the government. I know what the Supreme Court SAYS "freedom of speech" means, but they are interpreting it with the assumption that the founding fathers would have made reasonable exceptions to absolute freedom to speak. I am interpreting this differently, such that freedom of speech refers to our ability to speak.

I'm not assuming that you will care to understand anything that I have said. But someone might.

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#62449 - 12/09/11 08:38 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Apotheosis]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
You're trying to connect the constititution with some higher philsophical law which is not how it wrks. The constitution is the law of the alnd the supreme law there can be no higher considerations so you may have your own little belief but that means nothing to the law.
You might think freedom of speech is the right to say anything at any time any where but this is not the case. That is your belief its got nothing to do with the constitution. If one hells fire in a crowded theater and someone get trampled to death you are not being punished for speaking you would be punished for inciting the chaos that directly lead to this person's death.
Returning to the actual topic of this thresad "sharia law" there will be people who would be up in arms at the notion and that's not goint to cange anytime soon despite what anyone else says.

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#62518 - 12/11/11 09:46 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: Meph9
You're trying to connect the constititution with some higher philsophical law which is not how it wrks.

Actually what I was trying to do was divorce the Constitution from convoluted interpretations based on suspected intent and focus on the literal meaning of its language.
 Quote:
you may have your own little belief but that means nothing to the law.
You might think freedom of speech is the right to say anything at any time any where but this is not the case. That is your belief its got nothing to do with the constitution. If one hells fire in a crowded theater and someone get trampled to death you are not being punished for speaking you would be punished for inciting the chaos that directly lead to this person's death.
Returning to the actual topic of this thresad "sharia law" there will be people who would be up in arms at the notion and that's not goint to cange anytime soon despite what anyone else says.
I am originally free to yell "fire" in a crowded theater, but the government abridges that right, because of the effects of that speech, as you rightly pointed out. But the reason for abridging the freedom of speech is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the Constitution allows the injunction at all. The Constitution forbids the Federal government from abridging my freedom of speech, without caveat or exception. Thus these two laws are in contradiction. I agree that the judicial interpretation of this law is a reasonable one, just not a literal one. They are essentially saying, "the authors couldn't have meant NO abridgment of free speech. They surely would have made exceptions for free speech that is hazardous to life and limb." But, if you read the Constitution, they did not make any such exceptions. It was a hasty and imperfect document.

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#70662 - 09/06/12 05:07 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Apotheosis]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
The Threat of Sharia and the Leadership of America's Two Parties
"In the case of Joohi Hosain of Maryland, the court shockingly abandoned American standards, in making their ruling. The court ruling stated that the best interests of the child should be determined not by American law, but by applying Pakistani customs and an adherence to Islamic standards.
"But sadly, the story gets even worse. The radical Islamist website, ShariaInAmerica.com, is celebrating this and other cases like it, as victories for Sharia Law in America. As part of a larger initiative to bring America more into alignment with Islamic Law, they rejoice over the court’s ruling, and provide resources for others who support the advancement of Political Islam in America, as to how they can prevail by imposing Sharia Law onto our American legal system. And, it is working!
"While the Left is bending over backwards, to appease radical Islamist interests, and much of the Right is too cowardly to take a stand, cases like these continue to grow. The Center for Security Policy has identified at least 50 cases. But the Islamist site, ShariaInAmerica.com lists having over 72 victories for Sharia Law, and counting, and boasts that many have triumphed over our American law."

This is the site that lists the cases in the U.S. http://shariainamerica.com/

Now that the US, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar are leveraging Salafists to help overthrow secular Syria, how long 'till the "chickens come home to roost," as Malcomb X stated...


Edited by dust-e sheytoon (09/06/12 05:09 PM)
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#70752 - 09/11/12 03:20 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Slave of Satan Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/25/12
Posts: 10
Loc: The mystical land of Sunny Ara...
As a former Muslim I will say this.................Islam is dying and with it Qan'un/Shar'ia. Such a thing will never come to America or any democracy. Do not worry about anti-Islamic scare tactics though, it is just another tool
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#70755 - 09/11/12 05:31 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Slave of Satan]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3119
 Quote:
As a former Muslim I will say this.................Islam is dying and with it Qan'un/Shar'ia. Such a thing will never come to America or any democracy. Do not worry about anti-Islamic scare tactics though, it is just another tool

Christianity is also dying, but I don't see it disappearing.
What makes you think it is dying? Are you sure it isn't just a more moderate behavioral religious approach?

Where I am standing I see an increase of Islam within democratic lands. A still increasing number of problematic religious issues is what I see (but the curve is flattening on top and while many think it means the conflicts are decreasing it actually means the number of conflicts reached a peak and is stabelizing).
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#70756 - 09/11/12 05:54 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Dimitri]
MesMorial Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
pledge


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: Australia
Hello everybody. The way to fight an idea is with another idea. I and a few others exposed mainstream Sunni/Shia Islam and proved that "Sharia" law is in fact anti-Islamic (using the Qur'an). The arguments are not ambiguous, but I won't advertise them here. They are so clear and so Earth-shattering (for "Muslims") that "Muslims" can either accept, or run away. It shows that religion is motivated not by faith, but by psychology (e.g. desire to belong).

But "Islamic-reform" is only a footnote in a broader approach. This is my first post, so I will say that my philosophy (Luciferian Satanism) incorporates an objective and non-emotional approach to scriptural-exegesis. It recognises that psychology comes before religion, thus there is no point in launching emotional attacks on labels. When we stop judging by labels, the situation will progress. But we do not stop, because people are not happy with their OWN identity.

Anyway, the point is that to "stop religion" in general, we should focus on the PSYCHOLOGICAL motivations. This targets the roots, rather than humouring people who claim that they actually believe it. Recognising that religion (Allah) serves humans (not the other way), we use our own standard of "right and wrong" to keep religion leashed. E.g. people can pray if they like, but killing apostates is bad (and anti-Qur'an!). Satanism is anti-slavery, so the prime point is that people can believe what they want, but cannot force others.

"Lucifer" for me is the human spiritural urge (i.e. intellectual and emotional capacity). Religion is basically food for the spirit, but since a person must consciously choose to become or remain "Muslim", it is the human spirit who is really God.

If we promote such concepts, we will make progress. I have a written a fair amount on this topic, which scares Muslims and Islamophobes (who need each other to remain relevant!).

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#70765 - 09/11/12 12:10 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: MesMorial]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Hi MesMorial, Thank you for your comments on this thread. You mentioned that: "I and a few others exposed mainstream Sunni/Shia Islam and proved that 'Sharia' law is in fact anti-Islamic (using the Qur'an). The arguments are not ambiguous, but I won't advertise them here. They are so clear and so Earth-shattering (for 'Muslims') that 'Muslims' can either accept, or run away. It shows that religion is motivated not by faith, but by psychology (e.g. desire to belong)."

Please tell me more. I would really like to hear your arguments, and to hear which parts of the Qur'an you cited to show that Sharia law is anti-Islamic and that killing apostates is anti-Qur'an. Since sorcery is a capital crime in countries such as Saudi Arabia, I believe it is in Satanists' interest to know these arguments. Also, I'm going to an event in a couple days where Zionist Neocons will be kvetching about Palestinians, and I want to bring some other ideas to the table that could support constructive work towards secular government where people are not forced to obey any religious laws and also are not subjected to racism.

I'm approaching this from a legalistic standpoint, because the people at the upcoming event are mostly lawyers -- and because law in general can creep up and ensnare people in subtle ways. If your arguments and citations run the risk of annoying people on this website (as citing texts extensively from any non-Satanic religion logically might), then please send them to me in a PM.
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#70796 - 09/11/12 08:06 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
MesMorial Offline
Intellectual Black Hole
pledge


Registered: 08/30/12
Posts: 67
Loc: Australia
Hello dust-e sheytoon;

For the benefit of everybody here, I will mention where my main work is. It provides the sharpest arguments on this point, remembering that it is not non-Muslims' responsibility to address every single detail (even if they can). The essential core simply has to hold.

If you visit my homepage you will find "Mordegast" at Allpoetry. There is a link labelled "Spiritual Philosophy". This will take you to my philosophy. If you scroll down you will find links, some under "The Book of Lucifer" and others under "The Book of Ahriman". The first link under the latter takes you to another page, dealing with why "Sharia" law is not a part of Islam.

Sunnis/Shi'ites use the same arguments every time, and they have been decisively debunked in those links. I wrote a larger document which is downloadable also. They have been tested on forums (e.g. Sunniforum, if you Google my name) but untoppled.

There are many Muslims who accept it, but both sides are tired of addressing the same arguments (and have agreed to disagree). This area is like a soccer ball. The people on the inside ("Muslims") keep it inflated, but it is the people on the outside who have to "play with it". Essentially it is not about faith, but what people want to believe. This is simply a tool to take the "aura of mystique" out of their hands. The Qur'an is the best weapon against modern "Islam", and if perceptions change, it shifts the intertia. People like Edip Yuksel have helped bring it to mainstream attention.

If anyone has questions, you can PM me.

P.S. If you want to check the Qur'anic references, Google "Compared Translations Islamawakened".

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#111959 - 03/23/17 09:37 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: MesMorial]
Sabrina27 Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/21/17
Posts: 81
Judging on some of the posts, it seems like the brigade have some backward obscure perception of the Sharia Law. Here's a video that might come in handy which elaborates on how the Legislation operates- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3GxM-2Fi7M
_________________________
Knowledge without action is void & Action without knowledge is madness

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#111973 - 03/23/17 11:38 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Sabrina27]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1147
Loc: San Diego, CA
No, don't try to actually post. You go back to that other thread and get told to kill yourself.

You string together thoughts and words that you imagine sound somewhat intelligent, but really your addition to this thread amounts to: "There are Islamic people in The Middle East".

But thanks for clearing up what sharia law is. I thought it was some Aunt Jemima looking bitch and the rules for her household. Like, "This house is Shari'a's Law, you wipe yo' feet befo'e you walk on my clean floors."

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