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#59496 - 09/25/11 05:08 PM Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America?
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
Practicing Satanism/sorcery is a very serious offense under Sharia law, punishable in Saudi Arabia by beheading and in Iran by hanging, and probably by similar forms of execution in other countries under Sharia law.

I plan to attend this event tomorrow. http://www.fed-soc.org/events/detail/is-islamic-sharia-law-coming-to-america-and-should-we-care I definitely don't want Sharia law or any other religious law in the U.S., and in my opinion no religious law arbitration of any kind should be legally binding in the U.S.

Sharia laws discriminate against all other religions--but particularly against Bahai'is and (who are considered to be heretics) and against non-Abrahamic religions, and against atheists. Sharia laws discriminate against against females, and persecute homosexuals. Sharia law has also been exploited to persecute musicians, even though music is not expressly forbidden in the Koran.
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Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59503 - 09/25/11 05:50 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I for one would not stand for Sharia law in the US, especially not where I live. Not that I think it would ever happen. At least, not anytime soon. I've heard rumblings of Muslims demanding their right to practice Sharia law in some Western European countries but AFAIK there aren't any who want it here yet. Unless of course you count the Koranic mandate of making the whole of the Earth Muslim. ;\)

In a nutshell: FUCK NO!
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No gods. No masters.

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#59507 - 09/25/11 09:49 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
I've known Caucasian and also Latino Americans who converted to Islam and who want Sharia law here in the U.S.

One of the things many Americans seem to fail to realize is that Islam is not only a religion, it's a form of law, military and banking. Yet, this plaintiff argued by citing the U.S. Constitution, as if Islam was only a religion:

Judgement regarding Oklahoma ban against Sharia law
http://s3.amazonaws.com/content.newsok.com/documents/n29opinion.pdf

Sharia has a history of creeping in via family courts, even if the children would prefer their rights be upheld under secular laws:
Maryam Namazie based in U.K., is against Sharia law
http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

Sharia propaganda may be creeping in under the guise of multicultural education:
American Father upset over homework promoting polygamy, Islam
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/29284189/detail.html

"Sharia Zone" stickers were recently posted in the U.K.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...-UK-cities.html

Here are some Muslims discussing the "Sharia Zone" stickers:
http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?299251-Islamic-Sharia-law-zones-set-up-across-Britain

Here is one of the most famous English speaking Muslims of those promoting worldwide Sharia. At least he's frank:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/03/anjem-...submission.html
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59513 - 09/26/11 02:48 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Sounds like someone's been watching too much fox news
Sharia law is not coming to America at all and there is no substancial evidence to the contrary. This topic is no more than a right wing attempt to scare voters to the ballot boxes. Most if not all you would try to state otherwise choose to think this to justify their hate toward all muslims as acceptable, it is not. The bills against sharia are STUPID they don't need to exist because the constitution makes it quite clear that it does not have to power to create an establishment of religion. In others no religious law is accepted in the US xtian, muslim or otherwise

Furthermore you're demonstrating a complete cultural ignorance in terms of the inhabitants of the the mid east. In arabic culture science is held in high regard it has nothing to do with their religion. In fact by that logic one could say judaism is a type of lawyer.

There are no instances in the US to suggest a trend to encouraging sharia.

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#59514 - 09/26/11 03:14 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
This topic is no more than a right wing attempt to scare voters to the ballot boxes.


Scare them to the ballet boxes and do what? What are they trying to scare people into voting for? A ban of Sharia law? If there is no threat of Sharia law taking effect in the US then there should be no problem with having laws preventing it.

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Most if not all you would try to state otherwise choose to think this to justify their hate toward all muslims as acceptable, it is not.


That sentence makes no sense, FYI. This "hatred" is not directed towards the people as much as it is directed towards the religious philosophy itself. Have you ever read the Koran? Do you understand the concept of abrogation as it relates to Islam and its teachings of peace vs. its rally cries to violence?

 Quote:
the constitution makes it quite clear that it does not have to power to create an establishment of religion. In others no religious law is accepted in the US xtian, muslim or otherwise


The prohibition of prostitution = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of gay marriage = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of abortion (pre Roe v Wade) = legislation of religious morality.

Open mouth, insert foot.

 Quote:
Furthermore you're demonstrating a complete cultural ignorance in terms of the inhabitants of the the mid east. In arabic culture science is held in high regard it has nothing to do with their religion.


What does have to do with Sharia law? And sure, some Arabic cultures are accepting of science but a lot of aren't. Also, Arabic and Muslim aren't the same thing. Not all Muslims are Arab and not all Arabs are Muslims. It is YOU who is displaying ignorance here.

 Quote:
In fact by that logic one could say judaism is a type of lawyer.


Outline this logical progression.

 Quote:
There are no instances in the US to suggest a trend to encouraging sharia.


Plenty of time left.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59523 - 09/26/11 01:09 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
dust-e sheytoon Offline
member


Registered: 08/23/11
Posts: 206
Loc: NYC
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6


The prohibition of prostitution = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of gay marriage = legislation of religious morality

The prohibition of abortion (pre Roe v Wade) = legislation of religious morality.



Awesome responses, 6Satan6Archist6!

Exactly, there has too much religious interference with individual liberty in America already! I don't want severe Sharia law exacerbating the problem! Instead of adding Sharia law and/or Sharia tribunals, we should be removing ALL religious tribunals and religious arbitration--including Christian ones and Jewish ones--ALL RELIGIOUS ARBITRATION! Tax payers should not have to pay to enforce religious judgements! That in itself violates the "establishment clause!"
_________________________
Fly for your lives! A great magician comes! He summons armies from the earth itself! ~ ArabianNights

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#59526 - 09/26/11 06:55 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: dust-e sheytoon]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
Since the US constitution forbids the establishment of religion in government why would we need a law banning sharia law? Why would we need a law to ban something that is already banned?

There is no threat of sharia coming to America unless the US constitution stops becoming the law of the land in which case I'm sure we'll have numerous other issues...

People can run around about what's in the koran or not in the book or any book for that matter but the reality of it is people are responsible for their own actions. That's why we put people on trial not the books they read. Since there are millions of muslims in America who are not terrorists I'm to wager that the koran can't be all that effective in causing violence.

And as far as Arabic culture you don't seem to comprehend the fact that tribalist ideas like the oppression of women can be more accurately described as being aspects of arabic cultures not islam. Once again I woudl site the millions of muslims in the western world and as you'll find the majority of western muslims who practice that are of arabic descent.

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#59527 - 09/26/11 10:23 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
Since the US constitution forbids the establishment of religion in government why would we need a law banning sharia law? Why would we need a law to ban something that is already banned?


The United States government does not abide the founding fathers' intentions of this nation being a secular one.

 Quote:
There is no threat of sharia coming to America unless the US constitution stops becoming the law of the land in which case I'm sure we'll have numerous other issues...


The United States government has been shitting on the Constitution for a long time now.

 Quote:
People can run around about what's in the koran or not in the book or any book for that matter but the reality of it is people are responsible for their own actions.


Right, a book cannot be held accountable. However, it is the book that influences the actions.

 Quote:
Since there are millions of muslims in America who are not terrorists I'm to wager that the koran can't be all that effective in causing violence.


It's pretty damn effective in other parts of the world. Also, there have been US born Muslims that left their native land to go fight in Jihad.

 Quote:
And as far as Arabic culture you don't seem to comprehend the fact that tribalist ideas like the oppression of women can be more accurately described as being aspects of arabic cultures not islam.


And from where do you think "Arabic cultures" are taking their cues?

 Quote:
Once again I woudl site the millions of muslims in the western world and as you'll find the majority of western muslims who practice that are of arabic descent.


The point being?

With every post you make it becomes clearer and clearer that you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59531 - 09/27/11 12:13 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

Scare them to the ballet boxes and do what? What are they trying to scare people into voting for? A ban of Sharia law?


 Quote:
Not that I think it would ever happen.


In admittance of this, putting too much emphasis on the Sharia issue may contribute to fear-mongering in the interests of pseudo-populist demagogues.

I think it is more honest to emphasize the predominance of secular Western law, and the inherent absurdity of having a literal double-standard in court rulings.

 Quote:
It's pretty damn effective in other parts of the world. Also, there have been US born Muslims that left their native land to go fight in Jihad.


Jihad and the institution of Sharia tribunals are two different matters. Such Jihadists are reacting to the western military presence in the middle east, whereas those who endorse Sharia are mostly immigrants lobbying for favoritism.
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#59533 - 09/27/11 01:44 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
I think it is more honest to emphasize the predominance of secular Western law, and the inherent absurdity of having a literal double-standard in court rulings.


It's more than just the absurdity of it; I do not agree with the practice of Sharia law and I don't want it going on in my back yard. Yes, I consider this entire country my back yard. They're certainly welcome to live however they want, as long as they stay over there. It's still sickening to me, but better there than here.

 Quote:
Jihad and the institution of Sharia tribunals are two different matters. Such Jihadists are reacting to the western military presence in the middle east, whereas those who endorse Sharia are mostly immigrants lobbying for favoritism.


Yes, they are different matters. I was referring to Meph9's contention that "the koran can't be all that effective in causing violence." Obviously it is. Sure, some may simply use it as an excuse for violence but there are certainly those who commit these acts violence because it is what is called for in the Koran.
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No gods. No masters.

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#59536 - 09/27/11 02:25 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
There are millions of muslims who are not violent thus the koran is clearly irrelevent in terms of creating islamic violence. The us constitution is the law whether it is followed or not but the people who want sharia are enough to launch a total gov't system.

I would be more concerned about xtian theocracy which unlike islamic efforts have seen some level of mainstream support

Arab male dominated society has little to do with islam and more to do with tribalism. The koran tells muslims to treat wives well and fully despite the fact that most extreme muslims are in marriage. Look at the world and you'll find a history of slavery, oppression of women, war,.... regardless religion

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#59549 - 09/27/11 11:31 AM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: Meph9]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
There are millions of muslims who are not violent thus the koran is clearly irrelevent in terms of creating islamic violence.


And what of the millions who are? I'm sick and tired of hearing "not all Muslims are terrorists". No matter what you say, it will not change the fact that Islamic fundamentalists are responsible for more attacks than any other religion. Nor does it change the fact that there are literally hundreds on incitements to violence in the Koran. I've never once seen any Muslims protesting violence committed by other Muslims. Silent condoning is still condoning. And if it weren't for the Koran, there wouldn't be Muslims or Islamic violence so clearly it is not irrelevant you fucking idiot.

 Quote:
The us constitution is the law whether it is followed or not but the people who want sharia are enough to launch a total gov't system.


This makes no sense.

 Quote:
I would be more concerned about xtian theocracy which unlike islamic efforts have seen some level of mainstream support


# of actively violent Muslim Fundamentalists > # of actively violent Christian fundamentalists. FYI, Muslims have mainstream support.

 Quote:
Arab male dominated society has little to do with islam and more to do with tribalism.


Wrong. It's Islam.

 Quote:
The koran tells muslims to treat wives well and fully despite the fact that most extreme muslims are in marriage.


Cite verses. Remember the concept of abrogation.

 Quote:
Look at the world and you'll find a history of slavery, oppression of women, war,.... regardless religion


Events of the past have nothing to do with things that are happening now.

_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#59554 - 09/27/11 12:15 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
MattVanSickle84 Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/23/11
Posts: 42
Loc: London, UK
I would say that since Islam - even it's most "moderate" forms and regardless of it's laws - is pretty much the antithesis of Satanism (as I understand it), any sympathy for it from Satanists seems bizarre. I am aware that Nietzsche (a Satanic philosopher if ever there was one) had respect for Islam but I think this is a mistake on his part revealing a lapse of his usual asserted prescience and is totally ahistorical. Islam is as much an enemy to Satanism as is Christianity, if not more so. The fact that it's laws are already applied, clandestine but known by the authorities, in the UK where I live is a travesty.
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The mind is its own place, and in itself

Can make a heav'n of hell, a hell of heav'n.

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#59555 - 09/27/11 12:58 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

Wrong. It's Islam. (Not Tribalism)


It's both. Many middle-eastern Christians are just as noisy and violent as their Muslim neighbors.

 Quote:
And if it weren't for the Koran, there wouldn't be Muslims or Islamic violence so clearly it is not irrelevant you fucking idiot.


Radical Islam is mostly an outlet for already-existing cultural tension. The violent sentiments are a natural consequence of the inequality, political unrest, western exploitation, and dog-eat-dog mindset that has been a constant in the Arab world for the past two generations. So while the rhetoric of the Koran is used as justification, calling it the ultimate cause is an oversimplification.

Since Islam is incapable of substantially spreading into the West except by immigration, the best Western society can do at this point is to diffuse anti-western sentiment abroad by drastically scaling back military presence in the Middle East, coupled with castrating Islamism domestically by encouraging the growth of the "moderate Muslim" community.

I think this is quite possible, although the withdrawal from the middle east is more likely to be an involuntary retreat owing to American bankruptcy and war-weariness.

We've encountered some similar situations in the past. As the 19th century progressed and the US saw a rising tide of Catholic immigration, there were widespread fears of an impending papal theocracy. With the horrors of the Inquisition still fresh in the minds of the senior generation, this was not outside the realm of possibility for many people. But in the end, the worst theocratic injustices came not from an invading force without, but from rekindled Evangelical dominionism fed by a hysterical fear of communism.

So while it is important for the West to not compromise their own legal standard for the sake of narrow-minded lobbyists, a greater danger will probably arise domestically.


Edited by The Zebu (09/27/11 01:01 PM)
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#59556 - 09/27/11 01:06 PM Re: Panel: Is Islamic Sharia Law Coming to America? [Re: The Zebu]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Quote:
So while the rhetoric of the Koran is used as justification, calling it the ultimate cause is an oversimplification.


This is true but you should take note that I never called it the ultimate cause. However, I think it is safe to say that it is a BIG part of it. Had Islam never been made up and the Koran never written, things in the Middle East would most likely be a bit different.

I agree that the US should pull out of the Middle East entirely. However, that will not happen. At least not until we have drained that entire area of its oil reserves.
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