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#59673 - 10/01/11 04:09 AM BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE!
Satansfarm Offline
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Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
It appears that due to free online copies of the Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey being made available, our beloved tome may be in danger of GOING OUT OF PRINT. So, go to your local bookstore, and BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE. IF THE STORE DOESN'T CARRY IT, DEMAND THAT THEY ORDER IT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#59676 - 10/01/11 07:27 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Satansfarm]
Clicks Offline
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Registered: 06/14/10
Posts: 114
Loc: New Orleans
It would be a bit of a shame to see it go out of print. Granted, it will still be available online for at least forever (over-estimation), it's very nice to have a hard copy of something that you can more easily read anywhere you choose, use for a decoration piece, a ritual piece, whatever. I was going to buy a few more copies to give as Christmas gifts (irony!) to some friends who want to borrow mine, so I guess now is as good a time as ever to stock up.
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#59683 - 10/01/11 05:12 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Satansfarm]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
The printed book industry is scaling down massively, so they are not selling as well as they used to.

I honestly don't care if TSB goes out of print, and I seriously doubt that a half-concerted effort on the part of a couple Satanists could possibly alter the titanic currents of the declining book market. The current editions are piss-quality pulp, anyway. Maybe if it does go out of print, somebody else can acquire the rights and give it a quality hardback edition (one that DOESN'T look like it came out of a break-room xerox.)
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#59698 - 10/02/11 10:42 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Satansfarm]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Satansfarm
It appears that due to free online copies of the Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey being made available, our beloved tome may be in danger of GOING OUT OF PRINT. So, go to your local bookstore, and BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE. IF THE STORE DOESN'T CARRY IT, DEMAND THAT THEY ORDER IT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hey Spaz, the caps lock button is the one 3rd up from the bottom on the very left side... turn it off.

Don't know where you got your information from but you're wrong.

I already have a couple copies and a .pdf version of it, so who gives a fuck? It will always be available for download for free as long as the internet lives. If by some strange twist of fate it goes out of print and theres a global EMP... meh, I still wouldn't care, I read it 100 times and "it's in there".

_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#59705 - 10/02/11 02:24 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Satansfarm]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
As discussed in some other thread here, I am intermittently working on a re-edited, extensively annotated SB which will merge both the SB & SR into a single volume. I will initially do this as a .pdf ebook similar to CoS, but it could also easily morph into either an efficiency or a nicely-bound print edition.

I don't see this as surfacing publicly anytime soon, because of copyright. The fact that there may be innumerable pirate texts of the SB/SR all over the Internet is irrelevant. Right now I don't know who owns the copyrights after all the post-ASLV legal fighting - Karla, Zeena, Densley, Gilmore, [?]. I doubt that any of the above would give un-blue-penciled permission for a volume such as this, so it will probably just be written and sit dormant in my archives against a future "public domain" opportunity.

Because of the extensive annotations, bibliography, and appendices, it will probably be much larger than the present SB/SR [despite all of that white-space-padding in the SB].

All of the supporting data will make the contents come much more alive than presently, but at the expense of the "simple mystery" of the unexpanded contents. So it will be much more of a scholarly book, not as satisfying for a teen goth to just wave around.

The other problem involves the text editing, because - as per the samples I posted in the other thread (recopied below) - I am cleaning up all of the incorrect grammar & composition in the originals. The result will get an "A" in a university English course, but runs the risk of not sounding like ASLV. This will be a tough call all the way through.



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Michael A. Aquino

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#59706 - 10/02/11 02:51 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Actually, you should release it as a free pdf in a standard book size-- I know many indie bookbinders that will make nicely-bound printed versions of PDFs regardless of the copyright, so long as it is for private use.
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#59707 - 10/02/11 05:22 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Actually, you should release it as a free pdf in a standard book size-- I know many indie bookbinders that will make nicely-bound printed versions of PDFs regardless of the copyright, so long as it is for private use.

When I get to that stage, I'll run that idea by my legal counsel, but I think it is not a legitimate way around ©-law. It is the act of reproduction that is ©, not whether or not you sell it for profit.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#59708 - 10/02/11 05:47 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Classless, Dr. Aquino.

If you were ever to do anything like that, I personally would find it not only distasteful in the extreme, but FAR beneath the dignity that I had supposed you to have. Not that you'd care...

Perhaps someone might reproduce your works for THEIR own benefit. Or maybe even glom onto your military career and accomplishments. Stolen valor... some people even want IT declared unconsitutional. Hell... why not give yourself a Medal of Honor?

This is just SAD. Copyright or not. SAD.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#59710 - 10/02/11 06:18 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Jake999]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
When I get to that stage, I'll run that idea by my legal counsel, but I think it is not a legitimate way around ©-law. It is the act of reproduction that is ©, not whether or not you sell it for profit.


Technically, it would be illegal, but it would be a practical nonissue unless you were making money off of it. (Heck, even posting those preview pictures was illegal reproduction...)

Even so, all you would have to do is let the pdf "leak" on some other site, and let the e-occultniks handle the distribution from there. I'm sure an Aquino-annotated-TSB would circulate like a wicked case of herpes.
____________________________________________________

 Quote:

Perhaps someone might reproduce your works for THEIR own benefit.


Aquino puts most of his work online anyways. You can probably find the various Tablets of Set on piracy networks too, but from an initiatory context it is merely pearls before swine.

 Quote:
This is just SAD. Copyright or not. SAD.


I see nothing wrong with it. At least, not any more wrong than hosting illegitimate versions his main works on this forum. Other people have made their own bootleg editions of TSB; why would Aquino's be any worse?


Edited by The Zebu (10/02/11 06:20 PM)
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#59718 - 10/02/11 11:32 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Classless, Dr. Aquino. If you were ever to do anything like that, I personally would find it not only distasteful in the extreme, but FAR beneath the dignity that I had supposed you to have. Not that you'd care...

Jake, we had this discussion in the previous thread. Annotated editions of classic books are completely legitimate; I have among other things in my library an Isaac Asimov-annotated edition of Milton's Paradise Lost and other annotated editions of some of Bram Stoker's, Jules Verne's, et al. works. It's just an extensively-footnoted version of the original work, providing source backgrounds, explanations, and enhancements, that's all.

As mentioned, the problem that gives me actual concern is the grammar/composition one. I am a compulsive perfectionist in this area, and the Avon-published SB & SR are a mess. [I presume that Avon didn't bother with any editorial cleaning-up - just printed what Anton & Diane sent them in MS.] The University Books hardcovers also had no editing; if you look closely at them, you'll see their pages [with the exception of my SB Intro] are not typeset - just blown-up photocopies from the Avon paperbacks.

 Quote:
Perhaps someone might reproduce your works for THEIR own benefit.

All of my published works have always been available free on my webpage, and an annotated SB would be the same. [Funny, I regularly keep getting alerts about people who download one or more of my works, print some out, then hawk them on eBay for big bucks. All people have to do is go to my page and get them gratis.]

 Quote:
Or maybe even glom onto your military career and accomplishments. Stolen valor... some people even want IT declared unconsitutional. Hell... why not give yourself a Medal of Honor?

My military career would make a science-fiction story too weird to believe, so I can't imagine anyone else crazy enough to want to impersonate it.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#59732 - 10/03/11 02:56 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Alex Crowley Offline
member


Registered: 08/17/11
Posts: 131
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
 Originally Posted By: satansfarm
It appears that due to free online copies of the Satanic Bible by Anton Szandor LaVey being made available, our beloved tome may be in danger of GOING OUT OF PRINT. So, go to your local bookstore, and BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE. IF THE STORE DOESN'T CARRY IT, DEMAND THAT THEY ORDER IT FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Use caps and tone the exclamation marks down. Honestly, if TSB were to go out of print the information would still be freely available (as it is now) and Satanism would still go on as normal. Buying every copy one can find isn't going to help.

 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Classless, Dr. Aquino.

I respectfully disagree, Jake. An annotated version of The Satanic Bible, as The Zebu said, isn't going to be any more wrong than any other bootleg versions of TSB out there (and as far as I know there are a few). Looking at Dr. Aquino's previous writings I would read his annotated version simply for interest's sake. I've found everything he's written to date extremely interesting and I have to say if he had something useful to contribute to TSB I would commend him for his efforts. Having said that, however, if he were to overshadow the accomplishments of Dr. LaVey by taking more credit, it would indeed be classless.

Although I doubt Dr. Aquino would do that. All his e-books to date have been free. There for those who are interested in reading them. For that I respect him.

 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
I see nothing wrong with it. At least, not any more wrong than hosting illegitimate versions his main works on this forum. Other people have made their own bootleg editions of TSB; why would Aquino's be any worse?

Exactly.

 Originally Posted By: Michael A. Aquino
My military career would make a science-fiction story too weird to believe, so I can't imagine anyone else crazy enough to want to impersonate it.

Do you have any plans for perhaps writing it in the future? Sci-fi or not, truth can be stranger than fiction. ;\)

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#60068 - 10/15/11 06:13 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Alex Crowley]
Goliath Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
 Originally Posted By: Alex Crowley
Looking at Dr. Aquino's previous writings I would read his annotated version simply for interest's sake. I've found everything he's written to date extremely interesting and I have to say if he had something useful to contribute to TSB I would commend him for his efforts. Having said that, however, if he were to overshadow the accomplishments of Dr. LaVey by taking more credit, it would indeed be classless.


I don't think there's any danger of that.

So long as this new edition of TSB and TSR is clearly marked as written by Anton LaVey, but edited and annotated by Michael Aquino, I don't see any problem with this project. Indeed, I would be very interested to read the results, and to compare them to currently-available versions of these works. Scholarly editors and annotators can add a great deal of value to classic texts, and deserve full credit for their contributions.

And after all, there's nothing sacred about the text of either the TSB or the TSR. Indeed, as we all know, LaVey himself did not scruple to appropriate the work of other authors and to incorporate these borrowings into his own work. Though, as Eugene Gallagher has pointed out, LaVey did more than just cut and paste sections from Might is Right into TSB: he modified and edited these excerpts, changing some passages and omitting others; and I agree with Gallagher that this editorial activity elevated these borrowings above the level of mere plagiarism.

It's interesting, as a result, to compare the Book of Satan to the original--to note, for example, that LaVey changed "If a man strike you on one cheek, smash him down" to "If a man strike you on one cheek, smash him on the other"--and to consider the rather different messages that these two passages convey. What emerges from this comparison is a conversation, as it were, between LaVey and Redbeard. And I for one would be just as interested to read a somewhat similar conversation between Aquino and LaVey. Especially when Dr. Aquino's own voice would be much clearer and easier to distinguish from LaVey's, in the form of notes and supporting material.

While I have nothing against electronic texts, I hope that this project is not only completed, but appears in printed form. I would certainly add it to my bookshelf.

 Quote:
 Originally Posted By: Michael A. Aquino
My military career would make a science-fiction story too weird to believe, so I can't imagine anyone else crazy enough to want to impersonate it.

Do you have any plans for perhaps writing it in the future? Sci-fi or not, truth can be stranger than fiction. ;\)


Indeed. Given Dr. Aquino's long and varied career--or should I say, careers--I find it a little odd that he has not as yet found a biographer. That's another volume I would be interested in reading.
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#60171 - 10/18/11 12:09 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Goliath]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:

Indeed. Given Dr. Aquino's long and varied career--or should I say, careers--I find it a little odd that he has not as yet found a biographer. That's another volume I would be interested in reading.


Dr. Aquino would probably best be off writing his own biography... of course he will have to censor out the parts involving his reptilian overlords and his time spent on MKULTRA mind-control, but it should make an interesting read nonetheless.
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#60173 - 10/18/11 12:24 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
felixgarnet Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I have read plenty of academic commentaries on the works of others, from William Shakespeare to Stephen King and, so long as all sources are accredited and the critique is respectful, I personally see no problem with Dr Aquino's proposal. Obviously, he and Dr LaVey did not part on the best of terms but I think a thoroughly researched (and Dr Aquino has always taken care to annotate his work impeccably, judging by what I've read) commentary on the Satanic Bible from his own angle would be interesting.

I would also enjoy his autobiography, I'm sure and must once again urge Jake to write his life story so far, PLEASE!!! \:\)


Edited by felixgarnet (10/18/11 12:31 AM)
Edit Reason: Punctuation
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#60174 - 10/18/11 12:58 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: felixgarnet]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Obviously, he and Dr LaVey did not part on the best of terms but I think a thoroughly researched (and Dr Aquino has always taken care to annotate his work impeccably, judging by what I've read) commentary on the Satanic Bible from his own angle would be interesting.


Actually, I am curious as to just how much drama there was between the Church and the Temple. There was clearly conflict, but as far as I know there were never any of the bitter inquisitional condemnations flung between LaVey and Aquino, as one often sees between rival sects.

Aquino, though obviously critical of the direction of the CoS, generally treats LaVey's writings with due respect.


Edited by The Zebu (10/18/11 12:59 AM)
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#60203 - 10/18/11 07:38 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
Goliath Offline
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Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 93
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Dr. Aquino would probably best be off writing his own biography... of course he will have to censor out the parts involving his reptilian overlords and his time spent on MKULTRA mind-control, but it should make an interesting read nonetheless.


But those sound like the best parts! \:\(
_________________________
An illusion--with intelligence! A malignant vision, with a will of pure evil!

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#60216 - 10/19/11 04:26 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Goliath]
Octavian Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 81
I would like to see Michael Aquino write a book on the principles of PSYOPS and how they relate to Lesser Black Magic and its practice.

Maybe such a thing is out there by him or someone else, but I haven't seen it yet.

In regards to TSB: I hope it does go out of print at Avon. Maybe then someone like Feral House can get it and TSR and really make a nice edition like they did with a lot of the other LaVey stuff.

I mean I bought Satan Speaks a year or so ago and I was really impressed by how nicely it was put together. Would like this with TSB/TSR as well.

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#60231 - 10/19/11 05:06 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Dr. Aquino would probably best be off writing his own biography... of course he will have to censor out the parts involving his reptilian overlords and his time spent on MKULTRA mind-control, but it should make an interesting read nonetheless.

Actually the MJ-series is more fun than the MK-series. At the moment I am less concerned with the reptilian agenda than with the Army's blasphemous, politically-correct renaming of sacred PSYOP to MISO, with the result that our sacred cult emblem will morph into a Japanese soup bowl with crossed chopsticks. Not to mention the inevitable "MISO horny!" jokes and T-shirts. As Colonel Kurtz observed in Apocalypse Now, "The Horror ... the Horror ..."
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Michael A. Aquino

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#60277 - 10/20/11 07:58 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Vondraco Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 28
Loc: Houston, TX

Dr. Aquino,

At the very least (and often a great deal MORE), I have always been impressed with your sense of humour and willingness to take a joke. \:\) Kudos to you, after all these years.
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Genius by genetics, Hedonist by desire!

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#60309 - 10/20/11 10:28 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
I would personally love to see a nice leather cover of TSB come out. Something like Jake999's would be a dream come true for me.

I wouldn't want the content he wrote changed. I like LaVey's grammatical errors. It humanizes him, it shows an inherent humility in him. Beauty is in the imperfections sometimes. He could have easily had them fixed and didn't.
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#60323 - 10/21/11 08:21 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: FemaleSatan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan

I wouldn't want the content he wrote changed. I like LaVey's grammatical errors. It humanizes him, it shows an inherent humility in him. Beauty is in the imperfections sometimes. He could have easily had them fixed and didn't.


Exquisitely said. Grammar changes just because one can change it is silly. LaVey was a man who had some rough edges, not a Ph.D. Changing something as iconic as The Satanic Bible for "grammar" is akin to taking the word "nigger" out of Mark Twain's works because the language of his day is offensive to those who speak in today's vernacular.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#60334 - 10/21/11 02:00 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: FemaleSatan]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
I wouldn't want the content he wrote changed. I like LaVey's grammatical errors. It humanizes him, it shows an inherent humility in him. Beauty is in the imperfections sometimes. He could have easily had them fixed and didn't.

As previously commented, this is indeed a consideration in any editing, but I am quite certain that Anton was not averse to, and indeed appreciative of careful refinement. I routinely cleaned up all of his Cloven Hoof essays 1971-5 [along with everything else submitted to the Hoof], with nothing but appreciative comments.

People, especially adults, with spelling/grammar/composition problems are often reticent about seeking help in these areas. The principal reason is that the writer does not recognize his own errors; otherwise he would not make them. For instance:

 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan (edited)
I wouldn't want the content he wrote changed. I like LaVey's grammatical errors. They humanize him; they show an inherent humility in him. Beauty is occasionally in imperfection. He could easily have had the errors fixed, but he didn't.

Avon did not edit the SB ms. at all. Peter Mayer just slapped it together as a fast paperback to surfboard the media sensation of Anton and the Church. The same thing happened with the SR. For the hardcover editions University Books just photocopied and blew up the Avon pages, typesetting only my Introduction.

This said, it is important to preserve the flavor of Anton's writings. There is a difference between necessary correction and complete rewriting/revision. The latter is what HPL routinely [and professionally] did to "collaborative" ms. sent to him, with the result that the final versions might as well have been his originals.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#60337 - 10/21/11 02:24 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
A little correction here or there changes the flavor of an individual's writing. An example would be when you cleaned my post up. It chipped away at my personal writing style (I write the way I speak, even down to occasional ya'll thrown in). I would hate to see TSB lose that "Anton flavor".

The other problem is the "bible issue". A little change here and there, and the next thing you know a book is so far away from the intention of the author it can't be recovered. I don't want to see that happen with TSB.


Edited by FemaleSatan (10/21/11 02:28 PM)
Edit Reason: Adding to post
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#60338 - 10/21/11 02:24 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Changing something as iconic as The Satanic Bible for "grammar" is akin to taking the word "nigger" out of Mark Twain's works because the language of his day is offensive to those who speak in today's vernacular.

I would scarcely revise the SB to make it less "offensive" to anyone. I loathe that kind of thing, which is just censorship under the guise of constructive revision. The "nigger" terminology in Twain's stories is essential to their period/culture origins. Disney pulled Song of the South from redistribution because of PC complaints that it portrayed Uncle Remus as a "happy" slave, and mocked slave dialects in the dialogue of Brer Rabbit, Fox, and Bear. Fantasia had a scene deleted showing a Black centauress (rather cleverly a part-zebra), just because she was shown serving her White companions.

Actually I have one particular word-problem with the SB: "... if he isn't, he had better have MEDICARE!" That term politically, nationally, and time-period dates the book. The easy change would be "medical care", but that misses the point of God being a declining/terminal oldster.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#60339 - 10/21/11 02:41 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: FemaleSatan]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
A little correction here or there changes the flavor of an individual's writing. An example would be when you cleaned my post up. It chipped away at my personal writing style (I write the way I speak, even down to occasional ya'll thrown in).

Unfortunately [with no offense intended], this is all too often used just as an excuse for incorrect speaking or writing. I blame much of the problem on inadequate primary and secondary education. As a university professor I routinely found myself giving my students crash-courses in English fundamentals at the onset of my classes. The objective was not to insult anyone; it was to enable students to communicate their ideas as effectively as possible.

Um, that should be "y'all", not "ya'll" ...
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Michael A. Aquino

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#60341 - 10/21/11 04:55 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
Um, that should be "y'all", not "ya'll" ...


That just about made my day.

The Medicare comment hit my "dinosaur alert" button too, but there's lots more dated material in the book, such as the tirades against the hippie scene... personally, I'd leave it in there, since revising these quirks would be rather redundant. Also, LaVey's maddening abuse of all-caps spelling kinda nauseates me though... (maybe an editor would have removed or italicized them?)

Anyways, I don't think that Dr. Aquino is attempting to "replace" the Satanic Bible by any means. I for one would be rather interested in reading his anal-retentive commentary, but the original Avon paperback wouldn't be flying off my shelf anytime soon... (but I do agree with you
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#60342 - 10/21/11 05:10 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
felixgarnet Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Dr LaVey also makes the popular error of conflating the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception with that of Jesus' conception by Mary.

The Immaculate Conception is a doctrine founded in the 19th century by the Roman Catholic Church which states that the Virgin Mary is the only human being ever to have been conceived without the taint of Original Sin. This was so she could be a fitting vessel for the physical incarnation of the Christ. Her conception, therefore, was "immaculate".

Jesus' conception was NOT "immaculate" as he was conceived as fully God and fully
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#60343 - 10/21/11 05:12 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: felixgarnet]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
man in one person, indivisible and had to be tempted as any other person.

Jesus' conception and birth are simply known as the Virgin Birth.

Sorry about the jump - my PC decided to post before I was ready. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#60345 - 10/21/11 06:13 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: felixgarnet]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
There's also misnaming Jormungandr as "Midgard", along with Enochian errors, and numerous spelling mistakes in the non-English bits of TSR.

While one does not need a doctorate in Theology to smell the bullshit in Christianity, or appreciate the mythos of paganism, a little bit of study helps if you're giving a thorough analysis.
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#60346 - 10/21/11 07:45 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
There's also misnaming Jormungandr as "Midgard", along with Enochian errors, and numerous spelling mistakes in the non-English bits of TSR ...

I think that everyone pretty much sees the editorial "problem" with the two books. One advantage of doing an annotated version is that one can address corrections in the annotations, or alternately fix the text and handle any original nuances in an annotation.

Yes, there are definitely foreign-language problems in the SR. I have a working/rusty knowledge of German, but there are Setians with native-fluency in both German and Russian, as well as experts in the lore of those cultures. When writing COS, I untangled the Yezidi stuff through the UCSB, UCB, & UCLA libraries, so COS contains accurate information & texts there.

I am certain there are no translation errors in the HPL section, because I invented the "Yuggothic" myself, complete with puns.

Here's a brief, rough-draft example of what I mean by "article cleanup". [Note that I was grappling with the "MEDICARE" line here - an obviously inadequate substitute!]
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Michael A. Aquino

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#60356 - 10/22/11 03:09 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
I also have exceptional organizational and multitasking abilities, supplemented by an in-depth expertise in emerging digital technologies.


Yeah, at the time of writing the "Satanic Network" was probably rather tiny, let alone anything close to the international community was see today. From what I heard, the person that translated Das Tierdrama wasn't even a native speaker. (I give them credit for trying though)

 Quote:
When writing COS, I untangled the Yezidi stuff through the UCSB, UCB, & UCLA libraries, so COS contains accurate information & texts there.


Most of the Yazidi material was drawn from Isya Joseph's translations from 1919, which are of dubious authenticity at best... (though it does more or less convey basic Yazidi theology). Also in presenting the context of the material, LaVey obviously wrote off the "decline" of Yazid traditions a little bit too soon.

 Quote:
Here's a brief, rough-draft example of what I mean by "article cleanup". [Note that I was grappling with the "MEDICARE" line here - an obviously inadequate substitute!]


To be honest, I can hardly tell the difference, although I noticed a couple parts where you toned the typography down. Errors, of course, stand out more than corrections.


Edited by The Zebu (10/22/11 03:09 PM)
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#60359 - 10/22/11 07:08 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
[quote=The Zebu]
 Quote:
To be honest, I can hardly tell the difference, although I noticed a couple parts where you toned the typography down. Errors, of course, stand out more than corrections.

In a good cleanup you shouldn't see a different document, just a smoother one.

There are no annotations in this sample. When added, they would appear as footnotes.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#60511 - 10/28/11 02:33 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: The Zebu]
Raziel Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/27/11
Posts: 5
My brother told me he saw the Satanic Bible in a local used bookstore. I hope its still there I wanna go pick it up ASAP
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#60512 - 10/28/11 02:35 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Raziel]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
You can download a copy of TSB free of charge here, Raziel from the Media Room.
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"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#60513 - 10/28/11 02:39 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Raziel]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
The Satanic Bible is available online as well through such place like amazon.com.And about a hundred other places. I think it is seriously unlikely it will go outta print anytime soon.
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#60843 - 11/02/11 11:55 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Fnord Offline
senior member


Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 2085
Loc: Texas
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

The other problem involves the text editing, because - as per the samples I posted in the other thread (recopied below) - I am cleaning up all of the incorrect grammar & composition in the originals. The result will get an "A" in a university English course, but runs the risk of not sounding like ASLV. This will be a tough call all the way through.


Like some of the others here, I like TSB as it is... warts and all. It definitely has a distinct flavor (ASLV) that I think would suffer from editing. Correcting grammar/editing/etc would make it less LaVey's book and more of something else (IMHO).

I do, however, like your idea of annotating TSB. I'd be interested in reading what you have to say about it and think it would make a cool supplementary version.
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Dead and gone. Syonara.

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#61172 - 11/06/11 07:28 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino

I don't see this as surfacing publicly anytime soon, because of copyright. The fact that there may be innumerable pirate texts of the SB/SR all over the Internet is irrelevant. Right now I don't know who owns the copyrights after all the post-ASLV legal fighting - Karla, Zeena, Densley, Gilmore, [?]. I doubt that any of the above would give un-blue-penciled permission for a volume such as this, so it will probably just be written and sit dormant in my archives against a future "public domain" opportunity.






DR AQUINO, actually the royalties from ASL's estate are split 3 ways between Barton (as the guardian of Xerxes), Karla and Zeena. Despite your falling out with ASL it would be inappropriate to pursue such a venture. While Zeena clearly deserves nothing from the estate and its revolting that she gets a dime, Xerxes and Karla DO deserve those royalties.

On a side not, apparently Diane receives a small % of the first books as per the terms of her settlement with ASL.

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#61173 - 11/06/11 07:29 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Jake999]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Classless, Dr. Aquino.

If you were ever to do anything like that, I personally would find it not only distasteful in the extreme, but FAR beneath the dignity that I had supposed you to have. Not that you'd care...

Perhaps someone might reproduce your works for THEIR own benefit. Or maybe even glom onto your military career and accomplishments. Stolen valor... some people even want IT declared unconsitutional. Hell... why not give yourself a Medal of Honor?

This is just SAD. Copyright or not. SAD.


Although I have the utmost respect for Dr. Aquino and all he has done for the community over the years, I tend to agree with Jakes views on this. Dr. Aquino has a wealth of knowledge and experience and a ton of books he could put out, WITHOUT having to go this route, and I think that if this ever came to pass, it would come off in a very negative light to the entire community.

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#61174 - 11/06/11 07:32 AM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Classless, Dr. Aquino. If you were ever to do anything like that, I personally would find it not only distasteful in the extreme, but FAR beneath the dignity that I had supposed you to have. Not that you'd care...

Jake, we had this discussion in the previous thread. Annotated editions of classic books are completely legitimate; I have among other things in my library an Isaac Asimov-annotated edition of Milton's Paradise Lost and other annotated editions of some of Bram Stoker's, Jules Verne's, et al. works. It's just an extensively-footnoted version of the original work, providing source backgrounds, explanations, and enhancements, that's all.


The big difference Dr Aquino, is that given your personal history of estrangement from ASL, it doesnt have the same objectivity. Clearly, you didnt know Stoker or Verne personally, so that doesnt carry the same baggage....

But to put out your version of books written by someone you later had a very public falling out with; clearly presents additional issues...

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#61198 - 11/06/11 06:42 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: 111Cal]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: 111Cal
... Despite your falling out with ASL it would be inappropriate to pursue such a venture. While Zeena clearly deserves nothing from the estate and its revolting that she gets a dime, Xerxes and Karla DO deserve those royalties.

As to whether Zeena deserves anything from her father's estate, you'll have to take that up with her.

As made quite explicit in the post from me you quoted, any annotated edition of the SB/SR that I do will probably just sit dormant in non-publication at least until the original copyrights expire. Then if anyone's interested, it could be released as either a pbook or ebook. Don't like it, don't read it.

I have no worries about my objectivity any more than I did when researching and writing The Church of Satan - which, despite an always-open invitation, no one has yet factually refuted. Indeed, ironically, most of the criticisms I get concerning it have been that I treat Anton LaVey and the Church too respectfully and positively!

As long as my own history, experience, and perspective are acknowledged - and I have never had any interest in concealing them - readers can judge my writings fully informed. Francis Regardie, for instance, had a personal falling-out with Aleister Crowley; yet this didn't prevent him from writing a number of very excellent works having to do with Crowley & Thelema, including expertly-annotated editions of some of AC's own works, such as Liber 418.

It is certainly possible for an author's bias or emotion to be reflected in his writings. It is ultimately the reader's responsibility to decide how much if any of this is fair and justified. There is, for example, a lot of authorial emotion in Burton Wolfe's The Black Pope, but once again you'd really have to take up any questions you have about that with Burton.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#61243 - 11/07/11 04:34 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
I welcome an annotated version. Actually I'd like to see several versions from different perspectives just like we already have with The Book of the Law for example.

Cleaning up the original might be a noble idea but that I am not so sure about. I dont think an original text should be tampered with (I do realize the irony of saying this in regard to a book like TSB though). Even with the best intentions its easy to, in some way, shape it to ones owns viewpoint. The same obviously goes for translations of books but those are more or less neccessary to reach a wider audience.

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#61245 - 11/07/11 05:02 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: TheInsane]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
One could wonder that if Lavey wasn't bothered about it during all those decades, why anyone else would be bothered at all.

Books are as they are, every little fault included.

We know she looks goofy but therefor we ain't gonna paint eyebrows on the Mona Lisa either.

D.

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#61393 - 11/14/11 02:36 PM Re: BUY EVERY COPY YOU SEE! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: 111Cal
... Despite your falling out with ASL it would be inappropriate to pursue such a venture. While Zeena clearly deserves nothing from the estate and its revolting that she gets a dime, Xerxes and Karla DO deserve those royalties.

As to whether Zeena deserves anything from her father's estate, you'll have to take that up with her.

As made quite explicit in the post from me you quoted, any annotated edition of the SB/SR that I do will probably just sit dormant in non-publication at least until the original copyrights expire. Then if anyone's interested, it could be released as either a pbook or ebook. Don't like it, don't read it.

I have no worries about my objectivity any more than I did when researching and writing The Church of Satan - which, despite an always-open invitation, no one has yet factually refuted. Indeed, ironically, most of the criticisms I get concerning it have been that I treat Anton LaVey and the Church too respectfully and positively!

As long as my own history, experience, and perspective are acknowledged - and I have never had any interest in concealing them - readers can judge my writings fully informed. Francis Regardie, for instance, had a personal falling-out with Aleister Crowley; yet this didn't prevent him from writing a number of very excellent works having to do with Crowley & Thelema, including expertly-annotated editions of some of AC's own works, such as Liber 418.

It is certainly possible for an author's bias or emotion to be reflected in his writings. It is ultimately the reader's responsibility to decide how much if any of this is fair and justified. There is, for example, a lot of authorial emotion in Burton Wolfe's The Black Pope, but once again you'd really have to take up any questions you have about that with Burton.


i fully understand your position Dr. Aquino and do have a great deal of respect for you and the contributions you have made over the last 40+ years. That said, I think we can all agree this would be a bad idea.

as for Zeena? I am sure we can also all agree she deserved nothing... and basically stole from those who did...

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