Page 4 of 4 <1234
Topic Options
#7332 - 04/06/08 05:48 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: TornadoCreator]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Drawing of stealing innocence from a child for the gratification of some sick fuckers sexuallity should be illegal.

Asmedious took away the only good reason I could see for Lolicon when he pointed out that watching porn doesn't stop him from wanting to have sex with real women, so therefore I think you are actually wrong about making this the poster discussion for freedom of speach.

That's MY opinion, so calling it retarded just shows you to be the spiteful little bitch I've seen lurking all along.

Bye bye,

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#7333 - 04/06/08 05:49 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: ZephyrGirl]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
PS, stop being angry at me. I didn't take away your blue nametag!!

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#7334 - 04/06/08 05:49 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: ta2zz]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
as much as tc annoys the crap out of me i have to agree partly with him here.

zeph the thought police to me is the idea that people have given up so many liberty and freedoms that they can not even think on sex drugs or rock and roll. when it becomes illegal to draw something ,what is next soon you cant draw or make art in reaction to violence,sex or anything else the religious Reich doesn't want to see in the world ,the scary thing to me is when they can make a drawing illegal (no matter what it is)say even a pic of Mohammed. what is next. no more violent video games,movies,art i have seen some beautiful art that has those things in it, take the art of chad michal ward that lady chaos posted beautiful stunning dark.i see it this way. indulgence instead of abstinence if its not hurting anyone i think a person should be able to indulge in what ever fetish they choose and if that is drawing cartoons so be it.the whole thing that scares me about this is when they can make a drawing illegal what is next. as an artist i use violence and sex in my art perhaps this is why i care.i despise to be censored and at this rate it wont be that long before that is the world we live in granted alot of media is censored but not all.

this is in my opinion the core of being an individual not a clone. the clone will spew out their generic garbage they have been programmed to like say or draw.the individual goes against this mass bland conformity and shows the world for what it truly is or how they see it. in their art or chosen rebellion.when all art and media is controlled and individuality is punished to such an extent.all we will see is clones. witch will feed more conformist behevoiur.really the loss of free expression is what im trying to say but not acomplishing very well.
_________________________
http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

Top
#7342 - 04/06/08 08:42 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: ZephyrGirl]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
The thought police will never happen. Acting on a subject is the crime always.

I mean in this day and age, you can't get anyone really arrested or stopped unless they actaully DO something to you.

If they are just THINKING about it, you and the police will actually never know, as long as you don't ACT on those thoughts, nobody else knows.


I beg to differ. The thought police are well in force. Maybe not in Aus. But they are here in the States under the guise of the FCC. Many a radio personallity has been fined, fired, or suspended for doing what they were hired to do. Speak their mind. Offensive to some, but that is what the radio station brought them on board for. Don Imus, The Greaseman, and Howard Stern have incurred steep penalties, or caused their parent company to, by speaking their mind. In my area, radio has undergone a dramatic change in recent years as a result. Some of my favorite programs have to tread very lightly, and tone it down, so as to stay on the right side of the fence with the FCC.

It isn't necessarily the FCC or the government that is driving this train. It's any group with a voice that feels they have been offended and have the voice, money, and media attention to draw a crowd. If I were to get on the radio and announce that all ILLEGAL aliens are breaking the law and should be arrested and thrown out of the country, rest assured every hispanic interest group would be calling for my resignation and protesting the radio station and sponsors. Right or wrong, Don Imus called a women's basketball team mainly comprised of less than attractive black girls "nappy headed hos". He was hired to be abrasive. He and the stations that hired him, knew what kind of on air personality they were getting when he was hired. I'm sure management didn't have a care in the world when those words went out over the air. It wasn't until the special interest groups and a few certain trouble makers started calling for his head and boycott that management perked up and took interest.

The thought police are everywhere, represented by any special interest group that happens to take offense to whatever you might think and go on record stating. If, as a Satanist, I was to go on record to the local newspaper and try to point out the misconceptions of our religion, I could incur a hellstorm from the Christian community. I could have people standing outside my house picketing, making loud noise at night, harrassing my kids, following me to work, etc. Should I take sides with the KKK for whatever reason, even though not a member but agree with an issue, the same would be true. If I where a paid comedian, like Micheal Richards, who happens to utter the "N" word at some hecklers during a show, and is now a scapegoat for all white people, I would lose my income, be shunned, and no amount of atonement would satisfy the thought police. So yes, the thought police are very real, very active, and a real threat to whatever freedom of speach you might have thought you had.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#7369 - 04/07/08 03:52 AM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: fakepropht]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Good point. I forget how the US works at time. This is when our Aussie apathy isn't such a bad thing.

I remember when I was working in the Penny Arcade Sex and Censorship Show, back in the 90's in Australia and she had this line that was about the difference with American and Australia is that we got all the criminals and you guys got all the fanatics.

I forget this sometimes. Whilst the above line is meant in jest, there is a certain amount of truth to to statement.

Americans have always had that 'fanatical' edge. Another perfect example would be bombing abortion clinics etc.

So then I guess you couold say, in essense, that freedom of speach is driving the thought police somewhat? Your right to protest has outweighed the right to have your say in the first place?

Not dissagreeing, just adding more thoughts on the matter.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#7399 - 04/07/08 07:56 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I was thinking about this issue as an artist, as a woman, and as a satanist.

Heres the deal...

Most people are stupid, and impulsive. They do stupid shit when sober, and worse when drunk. The masses mostly dont know or want to take responsiblility for the outcome of their actions.

I want to be able to create and view any damn thing I can think of, anything I am concerned or curious about and or create.

Because stupid people are influenced by dumb stupid things, it makes it worse for those of us who can actually see the difference between a furry anima cat (such as fritz the cat) and a real person who needs to shave.

Most of the laws recently, well last 30 years are mostly meant to protect stupid people from themselves. Because a lot of stupid people need extra protection, we get laws that limit things that were not necessary before.

hot warnings on coffee cups
seat belts
helmets
litter
smoking
gambling off shore
drugs
pornography
noise laws
etc...

There is no real solution, and our laws are getting worse and limiting more and more of our freedoms.

Sometimes I wonder is voting or sending money to the wwf really enough, or is it time to do something more....

Morg
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#7421 - 04/08/08 11:25 AM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: fakepropht]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Greetings fakepropht...

Ok let me point out where what you are saying is not true and only strengthens what Zeph has said… The thought police do not exist yet… One can always speak ones mind but in doing so this is now an action not a thought…

Imus could have sat there thinking to himself look at these ugly gorilla looking mud girls… Everything would be fine but no it was his action of speaking the thought nappy-headed hoes that got him in trouble… I mean seriously is that something to say about a group that is at least trying to do something to better themselves even if it is only a sport? Imus was wrong more wrong for apologizing… It is that simple…

Speaking ones mind and freedom of speech have always been governed best by commonsense… The laws of slander, libel, and defamation of character prove this…

The day the real thought police exist is a dreary day indeed… Until then the action of speaking ones mind is still an action that may or may not have criminal repercussions…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#7473 - 04/10/08 10:08 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: ta2zz]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
The second thing to note is that we are in fact free to speak as we like. Hence, free speech differs from some other forms of freedom of action. If the government wishes to stop citizens performing certain actions, riding motor bikes for example, it can limit the freedom to do so by making sure that such vehicles are no longer available; current bikes could be destroyed and a ban can be placed on imports. Freedom of speech is a different case. A government cannot make it impossible to say certain things. The only thing it can do is punish people after they have said, written or published. This means that we are free to speak or write in a way that we are not free to ride outlawed motorbikes. This is an important point; if we insist that legal prohibitions remove freedom then we have to hold the incoherent position that a person was unfree in the performance of an action. The government would have to remove our vocal chords for us to be unfree to speak in the same way as those who want to ride motorbikes are unfree.

A better way to think about freedom of speech is to say that the threat of a sanction makes us less free than we would be without the threat because the threat makes it more difficult and more costly to exercise our freedom. Such sanctions take two major forms. The first, and most serious, is punishment by the state, which usually consists of a financial penalty, but occasionally can stretch to imprisonment. The second threat of sanction comes from social disapprobation. People will often refrain from making statements because they fear the ridicule and moral outrage of others. For example, one could expect a fair amount of these things if one made racist comments during a public lecture at a university. Usually it is the first type that sparks the most controversy but John Stuart Mill provides a strong warning about the chilling effect of the latter form of sanction.

We seem to have reached a paradoxical position. I started by claiming that there can be no such thing as a pure form of free speech: now I seem to be arguing that we are, in fact, free to say anything we like. The paradox is resolved by thinking of free speech in the following terms. I am, indeed, free to say what I like, but the state and other individuals can make that freedom more or less costly to exercise. The issue, therefore, boils down to assessing how cumbersome we wish to make it for people to say certain things. The best way to think about this is to ask whether speech should be protected rather than to ask whether it should be prohibited. This leads us to the recognition that we can and should regulate speech, but ultimately we cannot prevent it if the person is dedicated to making the statement.

Borrowed from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy.

Perhaps I should have used the term "Speech Police". Yes, I can think any damn thing I want. It isn't until I verbalize that thought, that I face reaction. When implants or scans are made possible to ascertain our toughts, then we will truly have "thought police". Maybe the homeless bum on the corner with the placards and tin foil around his head is on to something greater than we give them credit for.

I find the greater offense being that a person can not speak their opinion, whether in private or in public, without facing serious repercussions. Where would our nation be if this principle were held to today's standard 250 years ago? Oh wait, you just faced death. How is it that Richard Pryor built a career out of racial humor and is considered one of the greatest comics ever, yet white comics are vilified for the same/opposite humor?

Morgan, you are spot on. We have built a justice system to protect the stupid from themselves. We have instituted a system that won't allow a person to speak on offensive statement. I guess our next great comic genius will only tell jokes like "how many persons does it take to change a light bulb? I don't know". "One day I was on the playground and my pants fell down". Raucous applause. Yippee.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#8105 - 04/22/08 10:11 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: fakepropht]
blackdragon31560 Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 74
Loc: Hell Paso, TX
well read most of the theard, "Hentai" is not really the usage, in Japan its called "Ero-...." ie "Ero manga/anime etc". being part of the fansub community i thought i give my 2 cents. Loli comes from Lolita, the famous book.

Hentai is used a negative, something like "perverted" or whatever. hence they use Ero , being erotic.

 Quote:
Now I know USA and Australia have banned lolicon but currently UK, Sweeden and now Spain, Canada and New Zealand are discussing it.


Its already banned for the most part, well "explicit" loli content is already banned in, sweeden, and the UK i think. Most Danbooru's remove "explicit" loli content nowadays.
_________________________
Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil.

~ Niccolo Machiavelli

Top
#8257 - 04/28/08 07:42 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: blackdragon31560]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
It's not yet banned in the UK, I know as I've been keeping an eye on this issue for a while. I would see it as a major step back in our development as free thinking people if it ever was banned.

Oh... and yeah, I came back for a bit, don't know if I'll be staying long, probably be a lot less than it used to be.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#8259 - 04/28/08 08:17 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Oh... and yeah, I came back for a bit, don't know if I'll be staying long, probably be a lot less than it used to be.

10 days can hardly be called leaving TC... How is the service treating you?

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#8271 - 04/29/08 03:16 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: TornadoCreator]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
 Quote:
would see it as a major step back in our development as free thinking people if it ever was banned.


An update on the related subject of 'extreme pornography' which I mentioned above. This absurd, moralising piece of legislation is set to become law as of next week, making the possesion of certain taboo images illegal -- even if said images are of wholly consenting adults.

When does kinky porn become illegal?
(BBC Magazine)

Stag

Top
#8326 - 05/01/08 08:16 AM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: Stag]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Wow... Well honestly Stag. I am extremely upset with my country for that. Reading such an article, it's depressing. I plan to protest this publicly.

I'm honestly at a loss as to what to say. I always thought the UK would be more reasonable about these kinds of things. I was wrong.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

Top
#8328 - 05/01/08 12:57 PM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: Stag]
psiren Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/09/08
Posts: 51
Loc: Spain
I've just read that article, I'm at a loss for words as to how pissed off this kind of shit makes me so I'll stick with 'fucking pissed off'.
Lord Hunt says it will only apply to images that are "grossly offensive and disgusting". By who's criteria? How can 'offensive and disgusing' be measured?

I'm also in agreement with pretty much everything Tornado Creator has said on this thread.
I can't see how looking at drawings of underage people can be considered alongside real child abuse as a crime any more than looking at drawings of murder, watching films depicting murder etc. can be considered criminal.

It's pedo panic, no one wants to think that there are people around us who get off on the idea of doing it with kids but there are. More than there are acting on it. So long as they're not harming anyone who cares? If a cartoon provides someone with a few jollies that they wouldn't get otherwise, I'm all for it.

Top
#76636 - 05/25/13 07:53 AM Re: Lolicon Illegal?! [Re: TornadoCreator]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6658
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
My argument is simply to treat people who enjoy lolicon as child molesterers is wrong. It's entirely unjust to pass the same sentence on someone who has a drawing on their computer as you would someone who has raped a school girl. It outrages me at the injustice.


I reviewed the Documentary Film Are All Men Pedophiles? , and Lollies are covered a bit. American Society is often exploiting children to protect them from harm. Child-abuse was a topic that was hush-hush for a long time. The awareness campaigns were stepped up in the early 80's and some speculate that its a byproduct of the SRA scare and Satanic Panic. Thing is, America itself is practicing a form of Satanism by using these notions to manipulate the public into taking certain actions. Whether that be fostering proverbial brown-coats, or celebrating the carnal nature of man.

A good portion of the film discusses the fashion industry and various forms of materialism (cartoons/comics just being one example) that exploits children. It also explores the natural progression of sexual maturity and the appeal of sexualizing children. Lollies are harmless cartoons, but the focus on them falls within the realm of policing behavior. It seeks to demonstrate the harm it can do. Lolicon has also created other trends, such as the Loli pillows that are called the 'Pedo-pillow',men interact with it like an artificial companion.

Facebook was an ideal place to watch the behavior of users that would 'see' men favoring Loli imagery. I watched groups form that aimed to harass a person until they were suspended from Facebook. It didn't stop there. Even after the suspension, Wordpress was used to erect sites to identify men using this imagery as 'proof' of pedophilia. Wordpress was a platform used to give it press, then sharing on various Social Media accounts like Linkdin, Twitter, Google+, Rip-off Report, etc. Some would take it up a notch, and share that information with employers to get these folks fired from their jobs (and I saw that one man was in fact fired).

Moral policing is fairly common on Social Networking. Some argue that the people that share their love of Lolicon are ruining it for everyone else. Maybe they are, but I think the real harm comes from creating more restrictions and laws. This comes from the general population that scream from the roof tops about it.



If you're interested check out my podcast: Satan Police...Are they coming for you? Satanic Brown-coats!

Even self-styled Satanists do it. It's more common than people are willing to admit.
_________________________
SINJONES.com

Top
Page 4 of 4 <1234


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.029 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.