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#59918 - 10/11/11 12:08 PM Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper
Deluded Reality Offline
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So I have a Liberal Studies Class that requires we do a paper on a controversial topic and give both sides to an argument, following your (or my) own view on it. So I chose Satanism vs. Christianity. I read the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey when I was in 10th grade so I am very aware of all the material in that book, especially since I agree with the majority of it.

However, I do have some interesting questions that I would love to get more perspectives on. One of which, the famous rule, "Do unto others as they do unto you." Is that not the same thing as the Old Testament "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth"? Even then I looked up online and found that Do unto others as they do unto you is also applied to the bible through "Mathew 7:12." So with that, and the idea that Satanism is the opposite of Christianity, why are these principles so similar between these opposed religions? I am by no means trying to promote or advocate ANY RELIGION whatsoever. Just trying to get more perspectives.

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#59919 - 10/11/11 12:22 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Deluded Reality Offline
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Any responses or given perspectives, whether you are a follower of Anton LaVey or another branch of Satanism, would be greatly appreciated very much. And please, if you have any input on what your religious beliefs are I would be interested in knowing. I am at the moment still unaware of any other branch of Satanism other than Lavey's so please respond to give your side if you want or are willing. As a reminder, this discussion or any comments that follow may be used for my Liberal Studies paper in class, so just keep in mind that whatever you may post may end up being read by a teacher (not presented in class unfortunately), but please be considerate. Thank you.
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#59920 - 10/11/11 12:37 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Read the forums.

Reread The Satanic Bible, it's free in the media room.

If you take time to read the forums, your questions will be answered.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#59921 - 10/11/11 12:56 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Morgan]
Deluded Reality Offline
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Posts: 24
I was actually able to borrow the Satanic Bible from my friend, so I do have it in possession for reference if needed. I do recall most of all the principles and ideas in the book though since I had first read it, since I do agree with most of the material and it is part of my religious beliefs since I had first read the book. And I was able to successfully find useful threads that I could possibly use for my paper, and I will continue to look for and research more threads.

However, while I will continue researching, I would still greatly appreciate any inputs or responses to the topic. Feel free to express your opinion. I would be interested in discussing anything related to this topic or this website. It's been a while since I have done something like this, and I don't think that I will only use this for my paper.

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#59923 - 10/11/11 01:05 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
RAIDER Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
I'd like to respond to your query about...'an eye for an eye..', etc..
The difference in Satanism is we don't contradict our own beliefs...'Do unto others as they do to you' is a solid notion that is not countered with ' turning of the cheek'.
We're not hypocrites.
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#59924 - 10/11/11 01:14 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: RAIDER]
Deluded Reality Offline
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But the principle of "turning the cheek" is associated with the New Testament. To me this only more proof on how religion can be adapted over time due to the current population of that religion. Therefore, I look at the transition of the Old Testament to the New Testament as a transition of Dominant Ideologies of the society of that religion. However, people do still believe in the Old Testament, and a lot of people prefer the Old Testament over the New. So would it not be a contradiction then to say that (LaVey) Satanism is the opposite of Christianity when both religions share a common principle?
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#59926 - 10/11/11 01:26 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Managor Offline
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Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 110
If I recall correctly the rule is actually "If a man smite the on the cheek smash him on the other".

Direct quote from the Book of Satan III

"6.Love your enemies and do good to them that hate and use you - is this not the
despicable philosophy of the spaniel that rolls upon its back when kicked?
7. Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!
8. He who turns the other cheek is a cowardly dog!
9. Give blow for blow, scorn for scorn, doom for doom - with compound interest
liberally added thereunto! Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, aye four-fold, a hundred-fold!
Make yourself a Terror to your adversary, and when he goeth his way, he will possess
much additional wisdom to ruminate over. Thus shall you make yourself respected in
all the walks of life, and your spirit - your immortal spirit - shall live, not in an
intangible paradise, but in the brains and sinews of those whose respect you have
gained."


The New Testament was re-written for times of more needed control. Why would you write the new version of a 'holy' book, with edited 'values' so to speak?

Diabolism is 'the opposite' of Christianity. In my opinion worshiping Satan vs god is the opposite of Christian values vs worshiping ones self.


Edited by Managor (10/11/11 01:51 PM)

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#59928 - 10/11/11 01:49 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Managor]
Deluded Reality Offline
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I know that Satanism hold very firm on where it stands with that rule, but I was referring to the Old Testament and the New Testament of the Christian Bible. Even though I have not read the Christian Bible a day in my life, I have researched that the same Satanic principle "Do unto others" is also in the Old Testament. While the New Testament does carry the new principle of turning the cheek, Christians still refer and prefer the Old Testament (or the Satanic) principle over the New Testament. With that, would it not then be a contradiction to say that (LaVey) Satanism is the opposite of Christianity when both religions share a common principle?
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#59929 - 10/11/11 01:58 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
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Swing and a miss.

Christianity is found in the New Testament, you know, Jesus Christ. Hence CHRISTianity. The Old Testament and New Testament are different books. Had you actually read them you would know that. I suggest you pick a topic that you actually understand for your paper.
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#59930 - 10/11/11 02:00 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Deluded Reality Offline
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Registered: 10/11/11
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But Christians accept both the Old and the New Testament in their bibles though? At least the bibles that I have seen or flipped through before.
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#59931 - 10/11/11 02:04 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Managor Offline
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Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 110
 Originally Posted By: Deluded Reality
. Even though I have not read the Christian Bible a day in my life,


Is what you just said.

And if you read the forums, you'll see people talking about 'reverse Christians'. LaVayens aren't one of those.
If what you said applies to LaVayens, what about Atheists?

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#59932 - 10/11/11 02:08 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Managor]
Deluded Reality Offline
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So by saying that Satanism is the opposite of Christianity they are referring to the current general population of modern Christians (aka New Testament)?
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#59933 - 10/11/11 02:25 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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 Quote:
But Christians accept both the Old and the New Testament in their bibles though? At least the bibles that I have seen or flipped through before.


Christians accept the Old Testament, in that they believe the historical (or at least theological) narratives contained therein.

However, Christians claim that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ created a "new covenant" with mankind, that replaces the "old covenant" of the Jews. So while the OT is still "true", Christians are not obligated to follow all of the old tribal laws and customs. (Except, of course, whenever they need to conjure up scriptural justification for homophobia)

 Quote:
"Do unto others as they do unto you."


While this is in the OT (albeit phrased differently), when expressed in the ideas of Christ, it specifically refers to altruistic behavior (ie, turning the other cheek). The philosophy advocated by Christ was clearly one of nonviolence, asceticism, and charity. (In stark contrast to the violence, decadence, and greed we see practiced by many Christians).

 Quote:
So with that, and the idea that Satanism is the opposite of Christianity, why are these principles so similar between these opposed religions? I am by no means trying to promote or advocate ANY RELIGION whatsoever. Just trying to get more perspectives.


Satanism is not the strict opposite of Christianity (were this true, we would not employ Judeo-Christian symbolism in our rhetoric). Both Christian and Satanic philosophies contain common ground, in that they both further some level of human interest, but Satanism generally endorses this on a pragmatic basis, whereas Christianity does so in the name of a higher spiritual principle (which in turn, generally causes more problems than it solves). Furthermore, we see this sentiment not only in Christianity, but also in Confucianism, Islam, Hindu religion etc.

I would recommend reading more of the Torah and New Testament, and also some Satanic writings by others than LaVey.


Edited by The Zebu (10/11/11 02:36 PM)
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#59937 - 10/11/11 02:37 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: The Zebu]
Grayson96 Offline
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Registered: 10/05/11
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Loc: Heywood, England
"Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also
to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 7/12

"life for a life, tooth for a tooth, eye for an eye" Exodus 21/22

"Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek" The Fifth Satanic Statement.

The initial Exodus quote was more in reference to law and order meaning if someone was to commit a crime, say breaking someones arm, their arm should be broken. The quote from Matthew is more along the lines of treat others well like you would wish to be treated.

My interpretation of the Satanic Statement is that if someone does you wrong, you wreak your vengeance on them. My view is you don't intentionally go to harm anyone unless they have harmed you. I live my life to my gain, not to make others worse. But cross me and I will ensure you regret it.

These are obviously my own thoughts, after doing some very simple internet research but hope that they assist you.
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#59938 - 10/11/11 02:42 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Grayson96]
Deluded Reality Offline
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I can see more of the differences between it now. Thanks.

Their is only one more question that I have though, and it was a thought that I had when I first read the Satanic Bible about four years ago. While Christianity points the finger at Satan and Satanism, throughout the book (the Satan Bible) Satanism points the finger at Christianity. Is that not just as hypocritical? At this point, I concluded that most religions are the same, or at least, end up being the same. While I now recognize the differences between different religions, I still view it best to go with my own religion, or religious views instead of following anothers.


Edited by Deluded Reality (10/11/11 03:13 PM)

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#59961 - 10/11/11 04:55 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Managor Offline
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Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 110
 Originally Posted By: Deluded Reality
I can see more of the differences between it now. Thanks.

Their is only one more question that I have though, and it was a thought that I had when I first read the Satanic Bible about four years ago. While Christianity points the finger at Satan and Satanism, throughout the book (the Satan Bible) Satanism points the finger at Christianity. Is that not just as hypocritical? At this point, I concluded that most religions are the same, or at least, end up being the same. While I now recognize the differences between different religions, I still view it best to go with my own religion, or religious views instead of following anothers.


Actually it's pointed at ALL religions who follow god. Not just one of them. ALL of them. Catholic, Jew, et al. You mainly hear of Christians because they are a majority, and are just more seen because they're not smart enough to get out of the spotlight with the shit they do.


Edited by Managor (10/11/11 05:06 PM)

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#59963 - 10/11/11 05:10 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Managor]
felixgarnet Offline
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Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Deluded Reality - Matthew 7.12 does NOT say, "Do unto others as they do unto you". It says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Rather different?

You exhibited sloppy scholarship and misquoted your source - just the vices of which so many Christians are guilty. ;\)
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#59964 - 10/11/11 05:13 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: felixgarnet]
Managor Offline
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Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 110
 Originally Posted By: felixgarnet
Deluded Reality - Matthew 7.12 does NOT say, "Do unto others as they do unto you". It says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Rather different?

You exhibited sloppy scholarship and misquoted your source - just the vices of which so many Christians are guilty. ;\)


Ah, the golden rule in school...I knew something was missing.
Great catch there Felix!

Minus 10 points on your paper for that!

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#59965 - 10/11/11 06:22 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Managor]
Deluded Reality Offline
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Internet source. It gave the different translations of Mathe 7.12 from different (types of) Bibles. Can't trust internet too much. lol. But thanks for pointing that out. I'll make sure to use the other quote instead.
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#59967 - 10/11/11 07:09 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
felixgarnet Offline
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You're welcome. ;\)

For goodness' sake, though - if you're going to compare the two bibles in terms of ethical teachings, at least read the New Testament in hard copy!
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#59975 - 10/11/11 10:33 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
RAIDER Offline
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Registered: 09/09/11
Posts: 152
Loc: PA
hypocrisy: a pretending to be what one is not, or to feel what one does not feel; esp., a pretense of virtue, piety, etc.

How is it hypocritical to oppose something you honestly don't agree with?
Also, all this Judeo Christian Bible quoting shit is starting to get 'under my skin'.
I, as a Satanist, don't expend much time or energy worrying about contradicting Christianity, as I am much more interested in the so called Left Hand Path I don't dedicate much of my very valuable time to indulging in the exploration of any 'white light' tradition...not just Christianity.
Satanism is not merely a reaction to organized religion and herd mentality it is also a philosophy unto itself.
Your last statement suggests you are questioning your own beliefs, I thought you were just writing a paper
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#59976 - 10/11/11 11:35 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: RAIDER]
Deluded Reality Offline
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Registered: 10/11/11
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 Originally Posted By: RAIDER

Your last statement suggests you are questioning your own beliefs, I thought you were just writing a paper


I question everything, including every source of information that I get because I doubt almost everything, and to me knowledge (or the truth) is something I desire tremendously. Therefore I do still question religion, and I do still on rare occasions aquire more religious beliefs that I accept as my own. However, of the religious beliefs I have I know that I will always keep (unless 100% real proof says otherwise). So it's not so much that I am questioning my own beliefs that I already have, but whether or not to accept more beliefs. And while this is still for a paper we are to give our own perspective or view on it at the end as well.

Other than that I think I might continue to use this website even after I finish the paper since I carry almost all of the beliefs that Anton LaVey has mentioned in the Satanic Bible; and, I originally thought that Anton's Satanic Bible was somewhat of a contradiction (eye for an eye) as well as hypocritical (the pointing the finger thing that I already mentioned). But now that I have gotten more opinions on the matter and researching more into Satanism in general, my views of it has changed. I no longer see it much of a contradiction, or as hypocritical as much really either. Needless to say I need to do more research...lol.

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#60001 - 10/12/11 04:36 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Deluded Reality Offline
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So, how does everyone here feel about the 10 commandments? Even though that may be a rhetorical question..
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#60005 - 10/12/11 07:55 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Deluded Reality]
Oxus Offline
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Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 509
 Originally Posted By: Deluded Reality
So, how does everyone here feel about the 10 commandments? Even though that may be a rhetorical question..
The 15 . . . oops 10 Commandments have been associated with the 42 Negative Confessions from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.



Edited by Oxus (10/12/11 07:58 PM)

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#60006 - 10/12/11 08:13 PM Re: Satanism vs. Christianity College Class Paper [Re: Oxus]
Deluded Reality Offline
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lmao, I can agree with that. lol.


One line posts are frowned upon here. Please use proper English grammar. This is a forum, not a cell phone.... Morgan



Edited by Morgan (10/12/11 08:59 PM)
Edit Reason: warning/information

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