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#60519 - 10/28/11 08:01 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The LHP is a transgressive praxis to gain insights. Theism (or not) is not relevant to it which should be obvious since the origin of the method comes from people having a "theistic" worldview.

Edited by Diavolo (10/28/11 08:18 AM)
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#60520 - 10/28/11 08:21 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3943
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Sure, I used the term 'autotheism' for a time, to describe personal autonomy. I Now find it to be less useful, mostly because of the misunderstandings fostered by the term.

But personal autonomy has only ever been a side dish, a resultant consequence of living an LHP lifestyle. Too many would declare themselves their own god and just go about their day, as everyone else, different only in their own mindspace (and hardly even there). What's the point of that?
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#60531 - 10/28/11 10:14 PM Re: real satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavian Offline
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Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 81
I see Satanism as the philosophy, the tool of the superman, or at least the potential superman.

I see it as the philosophy of greatness and leadership.

I hope that I am not stupid or naive enough to believe that I can just declare myself a God and then sit back and think I can actualise that without deeds or praxis or actually doing something and learning and evolving and moving forward.

Everyone will be cut down to a size and a shape under the pressures of the world.

I still maintain that I can be the centre of my world, of a subjective universe which I can more or less bring into being through my intelligence, talent and drive.

I personally find this viewpoint and its accompanying practical efforts to be deeply adversarial, particularly in a society which just demands that I think alike with others and do alike with others.

Edited by Octavian (10/28/11 10:16 PM)
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#60537 - 10/28/11 10:43 PM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3943
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Ok, here is a question. What makes you great, and what are you the leader of? Oh shit I guess that's two questions. Ok lets do three then, this ones easier. What about your day to day activities would identify you as a potential superman, different from the rest?

The problem with this sort of 'adversarialism' is it only exists in mindspace. If that's taking it far enough in your eyes, cool, but it seems a bit hollow from here.
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#60539 - 10/28/11 10:45 PM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
That's what it is about. You're the center of your universe. Whatever happens, there's only one to praise or blame: you.

Does this mean you're god? Hell no, things happen without you being able to control them; at times you just got to go with the flow and improvise.
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#60545 - 10/29/11 01:30 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavian Offline
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Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 81
What makes me great? Because I am me.

I have been a painter and hold two post-grad degrees.

I have been a short order cook and a dishwasher and have cleaned up vomit at times.

I have been a thief and a burglar, through a wish for adventure and a good shot of adrenalin.

I have been a treasury and money market banker and have worked with hundred's of millions of dollars a day. I have held responsible leadership roles in the corporate world.

I have been a teacher, and I have been been a political activist.

All of these roles I have had may be perceived by you as not superhuman, but they are superhuman to me.

If others can exceed these roles and satisfy themselves than good on them. If they can evolve further than I can then good luck to them.

You may ask me to substantiate my claims with evidence, but this I cannot do, as I can't risk exposing my identity on the internet right now.

My reality is unique to me and the world is fresh and waiting to be understood, perceived and its forces marshalled in my favour, as far as I can marshall them.
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#60547 - 10/29/11 02:01 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
arjunasAscent Offline
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Registered: 04/25/11
Posts: 69
Loc: PA, US
There's no need to prove one's self or stay in control. A lost battle is a war won.



Edited by arjunasAscent (10/29/11 02:03 AM)
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#60552 - 10/29/11 03:42 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Octavian
What makes me great? Because I am me.

I have been a painter and hold two post-grad degrees.

I have been a short order cook and a dishwasher and have cleaned up vomit at times.

I have been a thief and a burglar, through a wish for adventure and a good shot of adrenalin.

I have been a treasury and money market banker and have worked with hundred's of millions of dollars a day. I have held responsible leadership roles in the corporate world.

I have been a teacher, and I have been been a political activist.

All of these roles I have had may be perceived by you as not superhuman, but they are superhuman to me.

If others can exceed these roles and satisfy themselves than good on them. If they can evolve further than I can then good luck to them.

You may ask me to substantiate my claims with evidence, but this I cannot do, as I can't risk exposing my identity on the internet right now.

My reality is unique to me and the world is fresh and waiting to be understood, perceived and its forces marshalled in my favour, as far as I can marshall them.


So its all circle reasoning then. It is because I say it is. I am because I say I am. There is no objective value that actually recognizes you as great or even close to some kind of superman. So its all about a mental projection for you to feel good about yourself. Its not unlike theism in essence then. Its there, cant be proven but is believed because you feel better by believing it.
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#60554 - 10/29/11 06:47 AM Re: real satanism [Re: TheInsane]
Octavian Offline
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Registered: 09/30/11
Posts: 81
Circle reasoning? No, not really.

I will attempt to explain.

I have more or less systematically dispensed with the ideological/religious conceptions regarding my humanity. I am a carnal animal. I find this correct understanding of myself to be an adversarial one at a deep level and I find it inspirational.

I recognise that I am the outcome of thousands of years of evolution, and that thousands of generations of my ancestors successfully survived and helped to make me who I am. I find this to be inspirational as well.

I have more or less systematically dispensed with the ideological/religious conceptions regarding the nature of reality and the purpose/being of living organisms. I replace God, and natural rights conceptions with will to power as the ultimate reality. I recognise stratification and hierarchy as objectively valid.

I see good and evil as objectively or universally untenable due to the scrapping of the religious conceptions I have undertaken.

The way is now paved for me to assume a form of Godhead and state that I have the right to determine questions of good and evil myself, subject to accepting the consequences for my choices. I no longer give this authority to an outside God, which does not exist, but rather adopt it myself. This is ethical I-theism.

I go one step further: I state that I can be the centre of a unique subjective universe of my own. A unique picture of what I want, of what I see. Instead of seeing the world and myself and my picture of the is-to-be the way an outside God wants me to see it, I take this myself for myself only. This is yet another type of I-theism.

I live in the real world and I am subject to stratification and hierarchy just like any other living creature is and so I will reach a certain level and that is where I will dwell, success wise etc.

Does this make sense to you? There is nothing circular about this.

Theism will only come into this if I can apprehend my I-theism metaphysically or in terms of reality. I have not apprehended it in this way at this time. If I did (and who knows maybe I will some day, who knows) then that would constitute the adoption of some other view of reality, but again I have not apprehended I-theism in this way at this time.
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#60558 - 10/29/11 09:43 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Look man, the problem with that superman shit is that we always look great when comparing ourselves with less.

Sure there are a lot of really stupid and weak people out there and when looking at them, we of course feel fantastic that we're not them. But that's not the point. This superman shit doesn't fly when you still require others to measure how great you are.

The only comparison that has value is when comparing yourself now with yourself before. If nothing changed, nothing great was accomplished. If you improved, then you're going into the right direction. But you got to keep on moving.

Those others out there, they're good for a laugh, or as an example but it was never about them.
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#60561 - 10/29/11 10:31 AM Re: real satanism [Re: Diavolo]
William Wright Offline
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Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 874
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
The only comparison that has value is when comparing yourself now with yourself before.

I love that statement. It is a statement I have lived these past few years without consciously putting into words, and I think it gets to the heart of what Octavian’s trying to say.

“God” or “Superman” are, to those who don’t believe in such things literally, subjective terms. If one chooses to see himself as a god, then the next step would be to manifest it in his life in ways that make sense to him. These manifestations are symptoms of the condition but not the condition itself. It is circular only in the sense that the manifestations reinforce, or challenge, the label he has given himself.
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#60565 - 10/29/11 12:31 PM Re: real satanism [Re: William Wright]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
You know what the problem is with this sort of personal glorification? That it very often hinders people more than it helps them.

Many think that once you declare yourself king of your hill, the task is done. Very often it is based upon some funky parameters; like not believing in a deity, or believing morals are relative, or that you are in control. But what many do is replace that god out there with a deity as fictitious but it this time being they themselves; this god or superman they claim to be.

But a lot of this illusion of being in control, or being beyond, is based upon thinking to be such, not on experiential conclusions, and as long as this data isn't verified; they're not doing anything different from those they look down upon.
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#60567 - 10/29/11 01:18 PM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3943
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Octavian
What makes me great? Because I am me.

I have been a painter and hold two post-grad degrees.

I have been a short order cook and a dishwasher and have cleaned up vomit at times.

I have been a thief and a burglar, through a wish for adventure and a good shot of adrenalin.

I have been a treasury and money market banker and have worked with hundred's of millions of dollars a day. I have held responsible leadership roles in the corporate world.

I have been a teacher, and I have been been a political activist.

All of these roles I have had may be perceived by you as not superhuman, but they are superhuman to me.

If others can exceed these roles and satisfy themselves than good on them. If they can evolve further than I can then good luck to them.

You may ask me to substantiate my claims with evidence, but this I cannot do, as I can't risk exposing my identity on the internet right now.

My reality is unique to me and the world is fresh and waiting to be understood, perceived and its forces marshalled in my favour, as far as I can marshall them.

I don't need you to substantiate that you are just like everyone else, for that was precisely my point.

You espouse to follow the way of leaders and be a step above yet in your day to day you seem to be no different than anyone else. Every christian, muslim, and jew feels special in their own head as they go about their slave routine, following the rules and living as they are supposed to.I really can't see how this sort of 'mindspace Satanism' sets you apart from they.
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#60573 - 10/29/11 02:09 PM Re: real satanism [Re: Octavian]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: Octavian
Does this make sense to you? There is nothing circular about this.


I dont have any major things to say about the outlook on life you provide in your post. I too value history and recognizes it as a part of what has provided the tool for me to be what I am today. I recognize stratification and hierarchy etc.

What I was reacting to was your circle reasoning - "What makes me great? Because I am me." The very definition of great for you is, well, you.

These "may be perceived by you as not superhuman, but they are superhuman to me." What you have accomplished then is to become superhuman in your own mind because you yourself has decided that superhuman qualities include being a cook and a dishwasher, a thief and a burglar, a teacher, and a political activist, a treasury as well as a money market banker (having worked with hundred's of millions of dollars a day) etc.

This means nothing and I cant see how it is regarded as superhuman much less anything divine (you do refer to being your own God which surely means something much more than just deciding that morals are relative and choosing your own beliefs).

Otherwise I think the critique offered by Diavolo and Dan_Dread is sufficient enough to speak for my opinion as well.

Edited by TheInsane (10/29/11 02:12 PM)
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#60574 - 10/29/11 02:47 PM Re: real satanism [Re: TheInsane]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
It's an interesting set of life experiences, but I'd hardly call it superhuman. Your personal journey is your own, and whatever insights you have gained are also your own, and cannot be intimated through text.

I personally don't like the whole "Satanic Superman Syndrome" (as Diane Vera calls it) where the LHP is reduced to a dick-measuring contest of who is more Über than the other. I think this thread is very close to falling into that trap at this point.
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