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#60952 - 11/03/11 01:22 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: RAIDER]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Pain is not beautiful or a challenge to our strength of character. True pain is vile and life-denying and unwanted.

I'm talking about real pain here - not the fun kind of having your arse smacked or your nipples twisted by a trusted sadist. I mean the kind of pain caused by seeing a pet beaten to death in front of you or being disfigured by some idiot with a knife out on a random slashing spree.

There is enough unexpected pain around without wishing it on oneself or going out looking for it. Some people may claim to have learned something from physical or mental distress, and that's a good way of dealing with its impact. But in and of itself pain is just what it is and not beneficial to a life-affirming philosophy such as Satanism.
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#61275 - 11/09/11 02:42 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: felixgarnet]
Sorcerer Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 10/31/11
Posts: 23
I'm often attracted to an extreme form of Gnosticism according to which this universe is an evil, abhorrent place which shouldn't even exist. In this dark religion, death is a kind of Nirvana and destruction of the evil universe a religious duty. One could even imagine a whole civilization dedicated to increasing its "intricacy, organization and power" (to quote the Lucifer Principle) for the purpose of enhancing its destructive capacity. I would be interested in examples of such dark religions and cults in history, if anyone knows of any.
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#61277 - 11/09/11 04:17 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Sorcerer]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"One could even imagine a whole civilization dedicated to increasing its "intricacy, organization and power" (to quote the Lucifer Principle) for the purpose of enhancing its destructive capacity. I would be interested in examples of such dark religions and cults in history, if anyone knows of any."

The Inquisition.
The Vatican in Rome.
The United States.
Soviet Russia.

Morgan
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#61297 - 11/11/11 06:38 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Tropix]
Meph9 Offline
member


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 161
the reason why mankind chooses to declare war on itself and not mother nature is no mystery. It comes down to control humans control their actions gravity as a force does not. In other words things like electromagnetism or the effect of gravity work not because they have a choice and can not be blamed for the failures of man.
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#61300 - 11/11/11 09:36 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Meph9]
Vinter Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/24/11
Posts: 18
 Originally Posted By: Meph9
It comes down to control humans control their actions gravity as a force does not.

True, but at the same time one can ask oneself if that makes it any more rational to hate humans than to hate nature itself. Humans are after all a part of nature, and even though one might regret acknowledging this as a fact, we too are bound by our human nature. The nature of human nature is of course a highly debatable subject, but our relatively short history here on earth leaves us just as much reason for regret as it does for pride - if not more.

Now when I think about it, I can see why such thoughts might lead some to hate humanity. After all, aren't humans the only species capable of exercising maliciousness towards fellow humans and other species? By this I mean

1. A desire to harm others or to see others suffer; extreme ill will or spite.

2. Law The intent, without just cause or reason, to commit a wrongful act that will result in harm to another.

I here interpret the phrases "without just cause or reason" and "wrongful" as an unprovoked act and/or a disproportionate response. This is something that has been exercised by countless humans all throughout our history, but do you think it is an exclusively human trait, or just an implication of our intelligence?

It is the intent of the act I'm referring to, not it's moral nature whatever you may think of that.

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#61306 - 11/11/11 07:12 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Vinter]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Actually no, the same behavior can be witnessed in our relatives the Chimpanzees. They also murder and maim quite well. Other monkeys display behavior that reminds us very much of cheating; making fake "warning" sounds that startles the group and makes them seek for a safe spot while the cheater grabs the goodies.

There's little uniquely human in our behavior although we specialized quite good in some.

The gravitational force we obey to however is Will to Power. There is no escape although a redirection is possible.

D.

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#61307 - 11/11/11 07:17 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Tropix]
PrinceOfBabalon Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 49
Loc: London


I often contemplate why the structures of things are as they are; why life must sustain itself through bringing death to something else? Why are decay and death necessary? Are they? The truth is we are no closer to understanding the why of metaphysical laws than we ever have been. Do I like the product of those laws? Sometimes.

It's extremely difficult not to look out on the bleak Yorkshire moors, attacked by wind and rain, and not be deeply in love with the passion and strength of nature, the physical embodiment of those metaphysical laws. It's also difficult not to feel something truly upsetting when a happy seal is rocked from its den, bitten until weakened and then dragged down into the icy water to be drowned.

While I strongly encourage investigation into the "grand scheme" of the universe, the conclusion I have arrived at on this question is that agnosticism is the only real option. However, while our life may operate within that scheme it does not mean we need be at the mercy of it. The human ability to construct a personal life of beauty and adventure raises another very interesting question; does the human freedom to create imply that we may not necessarily be subject to the "way things are" after all?


Edited by PrinceOfBabalon (11/11/11 07:18 PM)
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#61316 - 11/12/11 02:36 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Tropix]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Tropix
People blame other humans for most of the world's problems. Perhaps because humans are easier to influence than, for instance, gravity.


Humans do fuck up everything they get their hands on...

 Originally Posted By: Tropix
I hate diseases. I hate pain. Hell, I even hate work.


Such a waste of an emotion. To HATE something means you have to dedicate so much energy and time towards getting to know it, why it's there, and it can be consuming in and of itself.

 Originally Posted By: Tropix
But what I want to know is if you hate the system of which the universe operates.


No. I think the Universe is wonderful, beautiful, and I could not begin to understand it's creation or evolution.

 Originally Posted By: Tropix
Do you hate the game and hate the rules of the physical universe?


I answered this above briefly, but to ignore the Universe and dismiss it all on "one gods creation" is a tragedy.

 Originally Posted By: Tropix
I want to know if you feel anger towards something that you can't do jack shit about.


This is a dumbass question. Only people who are wound up tight and control freaks might fit in there.

 Originally Posted By: Tropix
This concept entails that there is no justice in the universe - that you have to make your own until you are satisfied and move onto something else. Does declaring "I win" make the world acceptable for three seconds? If there is no justice, is it your inherent job to slay the dragons that oppose you?

From a metaphysical standpoint, ponder the following. Even if you don't believe in Satan as a personified deity, you might consider what would make Satan proud. If Satan was the creator of the universe, and you hated it and you admitted it, would he be insulted? Such contempt is somewhat inappropriate for creator religions and even more so for nature religions. For Satanism, I think not. It is what it is.

My suspicion is that if humans ever agreed enough to work together, the common enemy would be nature. The attitude of the transhumanist philosophy is that we should take on the world via invention - an extension of ourselves. If everyone got along, we still wouldn't be happy, because tragedy in the universe would remain.

It sort of puts a dent in our pride. We will always lose in the end. For all the value of being your own god, or being superman, we remain inferior to the ideals we can only imagine. This doesn't have to humble us. We can retaliate, and at least enjoy the indulging of anger.


The rest is mumbo jumbo bullshit.
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Timothy

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#70493 - 08/24/12 11:42 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: RAIDER]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Certainly not. I love the brutal perfection I see in the natural world. I love the dirt, the harvest, the animals, the crop, Oceans, Mountains, Sky, all of it. There is no "good or evil" to be found in the state of nature. It simply is. I find it vicious and beautiful.

PS: As a note, I don't know that hating humanity is applicable to me. Elements of human nature can create obstacles for me, but I don't hate the totality of humanity.


Edited by Le Deluge (08/24/12 11:47 AM)
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#73444 - 12/02/12 01:13 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Tropix]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
This is and isn't a hard question for me to answer. If you would have asked this to me when I was younger I would have answered with a heated yes. (On bad days, I would probably say yes too.)

However, hatred is so time and energy consuming that I rarely ever say I "hate" anything. I find that it's much easier to be indifferent to things of my disliking. However, even I have my days when I fly off the handle.

Furthermore, when it comes to nature. It really is just what it is. In the past year, I have questioned it. I've really questioned a lot things. Yesterday, while obtaining what felt like a violent kick in the gut, I questioned the ways of nature and the "justice" of nature.. but nature has no justice. It just is.

 Quote:
If everyone got along, we still wouldn't be happy, because tragedy in the universe would remain.


Existentialists believe that the idea of a completely happy and successful life is almost a joke. We CAN'T be fully happy and actually achieve anything because it is our grievances with the world that motivates us. Truly that is bittersweet. It is merely human nature to be unhappy or have some sort of attachment to unhappiness, then, if that is what motivates us in the long run.

If this is the case, the ideal Utopian society of Kum by ya is just going to have to wait and is actually unproductive in the life of even your average Joe Shmoe.

 Quote:
It sort of puts a dent in our pride. We will always lose in the end.


I don't see how accepting something that is productive in our lives puts a dent in our pride. None of us have claimed that being completely happy/perfect is something that can obtained forever.

 Quote:
This doesn't have to humble us. We can retaliate, and at least enjoy the indulging of anger.


I disagree. I think we should be humbled by this. If you count going after what you need/want with the items in your toolbin as a retaliation at the world and the working system of it, I think you are taking on a war you will never win. We work WITH nature, we are a PART of it all.. bumps, scratches and flaws included.

There is no need to retaliate against something that isn't actually working against your favor.
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#73517 - 12/03/12 09:46 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: OrgasmicKarmatic]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
It is merely human nature to be unhappy or have some sort of attachment to unhappiness, then, if that is what motivates us in the long run.


I think this is partially correct, but I think the nature of humans is not so much that it's our nature to be unhappy, but that we have been programmed throughout the millenia to overcome and conquer and, due to our current level of relative comfort, we really don't have much that meets this biological need within us anymore.

Maybe this is why middle class kids often feel the most disenfranchised.

 Quote:
...hatred is so time and energy consuming...


My husband used to say that when he'd catch me saying that I hated someone or some thing. I explained to him that I see the very act of stating it to be less like a focus of energy and more like a valve on a pressure cooker, releasing the nonproductive energies that can be created by dwelling on frustration. "Goddammit! I hate stupid drivers!" There. It's over.

And since then, I've caught him verbalizing hatred for things as well. I think anger/hatred can be productive or counterproductive and it simply depends on how you handle it (much like all other emotion). It's a natural, knee-jerk reaction to some things, however, and being able to either harness it or let it go is key. When any emotion - positive or negative, actually - has a chance to overwhelm you, that's when the trouble starts because then logic flies out the window.

 Quote:
but nature has no justice. It just is.


This seems to be a very difficult concept for most people to assimilate. Some things "just are". It's a frustration for myself at times as well, although I think that my personality makes it easier for me to live with it. I learned a long time ago, for example, that you can't change how an individual is. You either have to accept it and move on (or work around it, in some instances), or you will drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize all the irrational decisions in the world around you.

 Quote:
...Kum by ya...


"Kumbaya" means "Come by here".

 Quote:
the ideal Utopian society...is just going to have to wait and is actually unproductive


I basically agree with this, but that's because I love the adventure of life, and my life gives me plenty to overcome and conquer every day. Ergo, I feel fulfilled; like I have accomplished something major, every day.

To Tropix:

 Quote:
It sort of puts a dent in our pride. We will always lose in the end. For all the value of being your own god, or being superman, we remain inferior to the ideals we can only imagine. This doesn't have to humble us. We can retaliate, and at least enjoy the indulging of anger.


"We will always lose in the end" is a very defeatist attitude. You have already lost, no matter what end you come to.

Sitting around being pissed off at the world all the time is not an indulgence, it's a crutch for a cripple.

Is it death that pisses you off? Is that the "loss" we always experience in the "end"? From where I'm standing, every day is a win and the shitty part is that I eventually have to stop living so I can die. I'm really fucking fond of living; it's fun. I'm not going to focus on that, however. If you spend your life focusing on the shitty part where you have to die, you're going to miss out on the adventure of now.


.


Edited by ceruleansteel (12/03/12 09:47 AM)

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#73528 - 12/03/12 10:35 AM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: ceruleansteel]
OrgasmicKarmatic Offline
member


Registered: 08/01/10
Posts: 256
Loc: Michigan, USA
 Quote:
I think anger/hatred can be productive or counterproductive and it simply depends on how you handle it (much like all other emotion). It's a natural, knee-jerk reaction to some things, however, and being able to either harness it or let it go is key.


Most definitely. When I was younger my anger level reached destructive heights. I would easily, and without conscious, destroy everything around me. I just couldn't get a handle on it. I still have days where it surprises me that I don't lose much more in my fits of rage. However, as I matured, I learned how to get a grip on these things and use them to my advantage and what used to be such a crippling weakness for me, is now one of my greatest and beloved traits.

I'm known for my anger but not in a bad way anymore.

 Quote:
This seems to be a very difficult concept for most people to assimilate. Some things "just are".


I think the reason for it is the never answered question of "why?". We go through all sorts of things trying to figure out the inner workings of the things that we don't understand. There are times that I want so badly to shoot back all the things in my life that I've been "denied" and others have gotten although "unworthy". I just can't make those decisions for nature; something so much larger than I am.

 Quote:
"Kumbaya" means "Come by here".


You learn something new every day. \:\)
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I am a ghost.x
http://othermindx.blogspot.com

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#73538 - 12/03/12 01:31 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Tropix]
Cassandra Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/07/11
Posts: 83
Loc: Temple, Texas
I don't hate the world at all these days.

But that was a different story when I was a kid, all the way up to my young adult years. I did hate the world and many of the people in it--including my own father. However, over the years I've come to realize that I probably didn't actually hate them or the world, really, it was more that I hated myself but I couldn't differentiate from that at the time.

I did have an issue with anger and hatred toward things that I couldn't do jack shit about, but these days it is not much of an issue for me. I can see how hatred might occasionally be productive, but in my experience--for me--it was not. Hate was sometimes misdirected, sometimes inflicted on myself. It served me no purpose, did me no good.

I am reminded of my parents. They are both, especially my Dad, completely devastated and upset to the point of non-activity that Obama got re-elected. They honestly think the world as we know it is going to end. They both hate the President with all their might, but all that does is reduce their already-ailing health and keep them holed up in a tiny world of hate and resentment. It is easy to laugh at that situation but I find it incredibly sad. Here, their overblown view of politics is destroying their own vitality and life. They have surrendered to their hate and do not see a life or a world outside of it.

I have read many times before, seen it many times before, and even felt it many times before that hate feeds on itself and its host. There is pain and disappointment and disease everywhere. There is not much to be done about it, but I have to say--I prefer that it is there. Without it, we would not be able to know what we have for ourselves is mostly good. I'd imagine that discontent would be even greater if everything in this world was 'perfect'.

Now, if there is something that is invoking hate in me, I will do what I can to resolve it or let it go. Like I said, I can understand how some people might find hate/anger to be productive in life, but if you have truly felt hatred breed inside you for many years, you will know that it is not productive to your own personal happiness.

Since my own personal goal in life now is to be happy, I do what I can to resolve anger and hate within me if I find it is messing with my psyche and happiness like it used to.

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#73547 - 12/03/12 07:43 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: Tropix]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
I would have to agree with Peanuts' Lucy van Pelt:

 Originally Posted By: Lucy
I love humanity; it's people I can't stand!

_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#73818 - 12/21/12 05:21 PM Re: Outside of humanity, do you hate the world? [Re: anthonyaguirre01]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
A soul so cheaply sold is not worth the cost to buy.

And I dare state that if you "loved yourself", you would not be looking to foist your life upon someone else in an effort to take the lazy way out.

Why are you waiting around for ANYONE to make a decision for you, or to set you on a path? Are you lazy? Are you ignorant? YOU are responsible for you. You have no self control? Well there's the root of all your troubles. Train yourself to be in control of yourself and you will be master of your life.

Your goals of money, love, and power are vague and unattainable. You will never be satisfied because there will always be someone out there with more money, better relationships, and wielding more power. If you want to truly feel like your life has meaning, then you need to look at yourself objectively and start fixing your flaws. Along the way, you will find a specific area of expertise that you have, or you will find something concrete and attainable that you can work towards. Vague, unattainable goals are the carrot in the face of the masses to keep them slaving away for the people who know what they want in life and are charging forward to it while other people clean their toilets and mop their floors.




I deleted the bs posts that anthonyaguirre01 posted... M


Edited by Morgan (12/22/12 02:16 AM)

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