#61892 - 11/26/11 11:45 PM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: Oxus]
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The Zebu
senior member
Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
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Satanism speaks deeply to the nature of humanity, and draws its essence from the pride, defiance, and striving towards liberty that is shared by those of our kind. In our current world, such traits are collectively called "Satan".
We can choose to embrace such a label-- and by doing so, we can draw strength from the symbols and mythos associated therewith, at risk of being branded "reactionary".
Or we can reject this label and take upon ourselves a new one, which helps free us slightly from the arbitrary standards of the masses, but creates a difficulty in communication and exchanging ideas.
During the genesis of the CoS, Satanism was a banner under which LaVey was able to unite a diverse group of creative and freethinking deviants. The same could also be said of the ONA, ToS, FdO, FS, and other groups that endorsed some variety of "Satanism." Such systems are a means to an end, a vehicle to communicate an idea. Yes, the wrapper is influenced by Christianity (though I prefer the term "response" rather than "reaction"), but by getting caught up in the outer aspects, one may miss the interior substance.
Good point Morgan, how about the whole of Abrahamic faiths? What if non of these systems every took place? Do you feel that a form of Satanism would have taken place? ** Just throwing this out, we can all take this in any direction.
Other mytho-religious figures could be a vessel for the radical antinomianism of Satanism... Dionysus, Typhon-Set, Saturn, Shiva, etc. One could even move past overt esoterisicm, and propose a hypothetical system based upon a historical figure or secular school of philosophy, which could adequately convey the ideas that are expressed by Satanism. It deserves notice, however, that none of these will be exactly like Satanism, since it cannot possibly manifest in an identical fashion given different cultural/temporal differences.
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«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»
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#61894 - 11/27/11 12:39 AM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: The Zebu]
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thedeadidea
member
Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 209
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I think there is an aversion in humanity to be effected by something I am not sure if it some visceral attempt to assert an empty individuality. Or whether they are whispers of behaviorism, determinism and lack of a free soul that stirs their sub-conscious. But if I punched you in the face would you really feel bad for responding in kind ? Dishing out more pain.
Anyone read on Nietzsche knows he was responding to a criticism he himself made a realization of the impending nihilistic condition with much of his work he defines himself positively to alleviate the symptom. Likewise Lavey might respond to multiple influences in what he found agreeable and objectionable it does not mean he didn't define himself positively. So reacting does not necessarily leave one some kind of shill at the end of a spectrum.
I would agree or have to concede there would be no Satanism per-say with the term Satan if not for many things including the Hebrew language. But I think part of the human condition and nature itself works in a quasi-empirical abstraction that just would go on functioning without the discourse of Satanism.
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#61898 - 11/27/11 03:18 AM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: Oxus]
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Dimitri
stalker
Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3238
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Indeed all we can do is speculate, but I wonder if there would ever have been a CoS or ToS for that matter without Christianity?
There would have existed a form of Satanism or an organized group.
Humans tend to disagree with each other the whole time as soon as a little authority has been called.
You can look at the ancient egyptian culture and find groups of individuals which were in adverse towards the settled gods.
You can also look at the old tribal behavior of some African cultures. Even in Eastern philosophies there are groups which oppose each other. One just has to open a history book on religion and will clearly see that adversary will be present.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat
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#61907 - 11/27/11 09:14 AM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: Dimitri]
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Bette Doom
member
Registered: 06/18/11
Posts: 134
Loc: Virginia, USA
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I would like to say the the "Church of Satan" might have been called any number of things if the canon Bible as we know it was either different, untranslated, partially lost/destroyed, or didn't exist at all. A more important question to ask might be "would California in the 1960s have produced something remotely equivalent to the CoS had Anton LaVey never founded it himself?"
Personally, I like to think that by that time, it would have been truly mysterious and inexplicable if no one did.
It should be clear by now that the CoS was a reaction to the prevailing popular culture of the time, and not merely "Christianity." Consider the deliberate efforts made to twist the noses and offend the sensibilities of non-Christians be they New Agers, liberals, peacetards, etc.
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A man's character may be learned from the adjectives which he habitually uses in conversation.-Twain
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#61946 - 11/28/11 01:38 AM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: Oxus]
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Michael A.Aquino
stalker
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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The Church of Satan was the result of Anton LaVey's and the other original Magic Circle members' interest in spooky fun. Cf. Anton's weekly lecture topics in my Church of Satan by way of illustration. Judæo/Christianity was just something to whoopie-cushion along with other hypocritical social institutions. Of course when Ed Webber suggested that the MC would get more attention as a Church of Satan, there was a sort of obligation to be "blasphemous", as for example in some of the Satanic Bible rants. But in its internal "social climate", the Church wasn't a theological or even emotional reaction against J/C. It was a positive, good-natured adventure in its own right/rite. I think this is pretty obvious, for instance, in the 1968 Satanis documentary.
There were occasional exceptions, who stuck out as exceptions: persons who came to the Church after bad experiences with J/C and a resultant hatred of it. Wayne West, author of the Missa Solemnis, is an example.
As for the Temple of Set, it is indifferent to J/C except as a historical social influence. Setians are again independently/positively motivated, ultimately by the phenomenon of isolate consciousness, and such motivation appears in any number of contexts, not just J/C or other mainstream religious ones.
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Michael A. Aquino
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#61967 - 11/28/11 03:17 PM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: The Zebu]
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Michael A.Aquino
stalker
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2676
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
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Aquino, I am curious; do you know what eventually became of Wayne West? From the people I have seen so far, those who have the strongest overt anti-Christian fixation are also the ones most likely to ditch Satanism for some variety of neopaganism once the blasphemy fetish wears off...
No, I had no contact with WW after he left; I think his "Church of Man" (?) was relatively short-lived, but don't know for certain. I don't know the statistics for you second question, but generally the motives for neopaganism (Wicca) are substantially different than for traditional or revisionist Satanism.
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Michael A. Aquino
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#61982 - 11/28/11 09:05 PM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: Michael A.Aquino]
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William Wright
active member
Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 874
Loc: Nashville
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I like the idea of a “Church of Man.” For those who subscribe to the concept “Every man/woman is a potential god in the making,” such a church may sound attractive. The problem, I think, is that "Man" is not nearly as colorful as “Satan.” It’s like the difference between, say, the “Church of Music” and the “Church of Elvis.” Music may be more to the point, but it’s Elvis who draws the crowds.
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#61986 - 11/28/11 10:20 PM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: William Wright]
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Jake999
senior member
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
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It’s like the difference between, say, the “Church of Music” and the “Church of Elvis.” Music may be more to the point, but it’s Elvis who draws the crowds.
EXCELLENT. My hat's off to you for this one.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.
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#62047 - 11/30/11 10:13 AM
Re: CoS a Reaction Against Christianity?
[Re: Oxus]
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FemaleSatan
member
Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
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I think the CoS is a reaction to Christianity. Christianity and it's values, ideals, morality, etc have been the dominating force in Western culture for a long time. It deserved and still deserves a reaction, somebody to push back against that influence.
FS3.0
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