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#62021 - 11/29/11 03:49 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Jason King]
Zach_Black Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California

[/quote]

Ahh, yes, the infamous "Zach Black" sentence.
[/quote]


Wait a minute. I have an infamous quote? I can't seem to place the reference. Either way,here is my two cents.

I read Post Modern Satanism by Jason King. In fact I read it twice. The second time with a dictionary. I like it . It certainly is not for everyone. I doubt it was ever intended for the masses. Some claim that it is stretched out and over articulated.And it might be. But, just like Jason King's youtube videos. It is directed at a narrow audience. Those who get it. Not intended to be Satanism 101. If you want Satanism 101 watch my videos . ;\)
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#62022 - 11/29/11 03:55 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Zach_Black]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
But that's not the point Zach; the question was "show me one..." and I did.

The argument it was written for those "special" people does not necessarily justify the claim everything written was therefor pretty perfect. This argument would also be valid if we'd write a pile of rubbish. You just need a different group of "special" people.

D.

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#62023 - 11/29/11 04:12 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Diavolo]
Zach_Black Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
@ Diavolo

I see your point. And agree. I did not read the entire thread. Although I do not think PMS is rubbish. Not that I assume you are implying that.
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#62024 - 11/29/11 04:20 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Zach_Black]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Not at all Zach, I never claimed PMS was rubbish.

I only countered the specific claim and admit somehow expected an answer as King provided but even when it is about the only argument available to defend the initial claim, it's a slightly flawed argument.

To a degree it is like circular reasoning; X is perfect as it is because Y will consider it perfect as it is. You already add the conclusion to your premise.

In that same sense I can vomit on a canvas and call it a masterpiece because those it is intended to, are the kind to recognize it as a masterpiece.

D.

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#62029 - 11/29/11 07:35 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Diavolo]
thedeadidea Offline
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Registered: 08/15/10
Posts: 209
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Not at all Zach, I never claimed PMS was rubbish.

I only countered the specific claim and admit somehow expected an answer as King provided but even when it is about the only argument available to defend the initial claim, it's a slightly flawed argument.

To a degree it is like circular reasoning; X is perfect as it is because Y will consider it perfect as it is. You already add the conclusion to your premise.

In that same sense I can vomit on a canvas and call it a masterpiece because those it is intended to, are the kind to recognize it as a masterpiece.

D.


You can do a lot of things D on one hand, like lock down a thread when you were painted into a corner. Insist on debate only/no insults when it's the O.N.A. back and forth. At the same time over here can be smug and praise your own intellect and wit whilst belittling someone else. Of course there was no direct innuendo just clever wordplay and metaphor building that golden temple out of innuendo you do so well.

Makes me wonder how unstoppable you would be if your second hand wasn't busy.

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#62030 - 11/29/11 08:51 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: thedeadidea]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Would you be so kind to not talk nonsense. First of all, I didn't lock anything. Second, what or what not I say when a debate starts to go "wrong" is my decision. If you don't like that, too bad.

Third, King hardly needs your defense and I doubt it very much he will feel belittled. The argument I give might be a bit harsh but it is to the point, I don't expect him to be the kind that prefers to be treated like a schoolgirl.

Thanks,

D.

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#62035 - 11/29/11 11:10 PM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Diavolo]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I locked that thread not D.
I thought Dan summed up the mess on a nice note.

If you want to continue with the endless personal perspective of the ONA verse the world verses the OP then go at it....

Morgan
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#62043 - 11/30/11 06:16 AM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Zach_Black]
Jason King Offline
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: blackzach
Wait a minute. I have an infamous quote? I can't seem to place the reference. Either way,here is my two cents.


See here .

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Actually, and I'm being very bold I know, but deus otiosus is wrong here.


And actually, you are correct. Of my listed deities, only Olodumare counts in the literature as a deus otiosus. And if you saw the subtext two sections forward, you would know that I didn't misinterpret the term. So what gives?

This is exactly why I wrote exactly what I wrote and adressed it to those of your caliber. And yeah, I intended the two exactlies. A big part of Postmodern Satanism concerns moving labels forward. Not only those immediately relevant to the nascent Satanist, but also those on the perimeter, both culturally and mythically.

I could have made a lengthy argument that each of the other "gods" I listed have become irrelevant to the world, its cultures, and most importantly, the embeds so constrained. What I decided to do instead was offer a single sentence. One pregnant with meaning for those who could "get it," and an "alphabet soup" for those who needed something else.

One of the problems with modern occultism is that it is no longer occulted. Everything is dumbed down and simplified, including most importantly, the cultural vector. As I said in the introduction to Pandaemonium, this "is what is known as a dense text".

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I'm not going to go into everything but individuated persona? Isn't that a bit like mechanized robots?


This refers to the development of a culturally/socially worn mask (L. persona) and is meant to be differentiated from "self," "atman," monad" and the like. The face we show to others as opposed to the inner self.

Look, I'm not arguing that Postmodern Satanism is perfect (as you implied in another reply), rather simply that the charge of "word soup" is some garbage. Every word, every turn of phrase, every formatting was chosen precisely on purpose. And that purpose was to deliver a message that is completely clear to those who can comprehend it.

It is meant to be simple and complex. A thing that will repay further, more informed parousal. An interconnected thing, in many ways self-referential with additional meaning. But hey, so is the pattern of hair follicles on my nutsack . . .

JK
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#62051 - 11/30/11 10:53 AM Re: Satan as Real [Re: Jason King]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I understand that King but the problem with writing and having high expectations in your reader is that you'll never know if anyone ever understands that what you actually were talking about.

The moment you start to use "go wild" words or sentences, the reader will, well go wild, and add meaning depending upon his capacities. It's almost like poetry; at first sight you notice vaguely what it is about but you have to activate your brain to find the deeper meaning.

That's good but at times a specific poem might trigger deep thoughts about mortality while the poet himself might have been talking about his damn dog.

That's why I prefer simplicity, as far as possible, which does not necessarily imply "for the stupid". But when I talk to someone, I find it preferable he understands what I am trying to say.

D.

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