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#6446 - 03/26/08 11:40 PM Look at the size of that thing!!! [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

In the one direction…


Hubble's Deepest View of the Universe Unveils Bewildering Galaxies across Billions of Years

“The image, called the Hubble Deep Field (HDF), was assembled from 342 separate exposures taken with the Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2 (WFPC2) for ten consecutive days between December 18 and 28, 1995.

Representing a narrow "keyhole" view stretching to the visible horizon of the universe, the HDF image covers a speck of the sky only about the width of a dime located 75 feet away. Though the field is a very small sample of the heavens, it is considered representative of the typical distribution of galaxies in space because the universe, statistically, looks largely the same in all directions. Gazing into this small field, Hubble uncovered a bewildering assortment of at least 1,500 galaxies at various stages of evolution.”

Full report and hi res pictures can be found here and here

Looking back…



"On February 14, 1990, NASA commanded the Voyager 1 spacecraft, having completed its primary mission, to turn around to photograph the planets of the Solar System.[2] One image Voyager returned was of Earth, showing up as a "pale blue dot" in the grainy photo.

Sagan gives the distance as 3.7 billion miles in the book, while NASA website describes it as "more than 4 billion miles" (6.4 billion kilometres)."

Full report here

Perhaps it is best to leave you with a picture and some words it inspired from Carl Sagan…

“Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.” ~ Carl Sagan

To hear it in his own voice

Pale blue dot

~T~

What do you expect to hear with something as primitive as radio?
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#6449 - 03/27/08 12:05 AM Re: Look at the size of that thing!!! [Re: ta2zz]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

In the one direction…


Hubble's Deepest View of the Universe Unveils Bewildering Galaxies across Billions of Years

~T~

What do you expect to hear with something as primitive as radio?


Thanks T.

I guess a picture is worth a thousand words. I know its arrogant for us to think that we're all thats in that picture. I really like Sagan, what he says is very profound. This picture just make you wonder WHY its all here. I love science fiction and really do wish there is life out there. They're probably out there; but I don't believe they have ever been here to our neck of the woods.

So far my favorite galaxy is the Sombrero Galaxy.
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#6459 - 03/27/08 03:01 AM Re: Look at the size of that thing!!! [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I remember watching a TV show some 5 or 6 years ago and it was saying that if you estimate the life of earth and our sun, how long it has taken to form intelligent life and how long that might last for, then work out how many times it may happen in the universe then they came to the conclusion that it would be highly unlikely for us to make contact with another civilisation in the unisverse.

The said it would be more like lights on a christmas tree lighting up one at a time. The chances of two of them lighting at the same time and being close enough to communicate were extremely unlikely. I can't remember the odds, or the name of the show (if it does come to me or I find it I'll link to it later) but I found that it made a fair bit of sense to me.

I am open to it happening however, hell the statement truth is stranger than fiction came about for a reason. However.......
I find the thought that there are already aliens here very very difficult to beleive. There are a whole lot of conspiricy theories that make alot more sense than that particular one.

On a slightly different topic, my born again Christin friend whom I often talk to about Satanism, after talking to her about how she managed to delude herself into beleiving in creation, gave me a DVD to watch (for the pretty pictures), in which the first part of it, the minister was going on about the reason God made the universe SOOOOOOO big and us such an insignificant part of it was to show off! For us to feel AWE at what he can do to impress us. And to make us feel HUMBLE that we were not the center of the universe etc etc etc.

Make me laugh, it did.

Zeph

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#6460 - 03/27/08 03:38 AM Re: wha 'tis yo' opinion on aliens...? [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
It is still a debated scientific point as to whether we already found alien life on Europa (one of the moons of the gas giants, I think Saturns moon, but I may be mistaken). It is a multicellular creautre, similar to some of out complex bacteria. Some scientists argue that we contaminated the samples from the probe, others say the creatures where from the samples. These are however entirely new microbes so if they are not alien they are at least a new species.

This is insulting to those of intelligence at least to me… To sit there and state you might be wrong and continue to write as if you knew, without any research into the subject of which you speak…

Could you point me to something proving that we even had a probe return from Europa?

Could you point me to this so called discovery of a new multi-celled microbe from any planet other than earth please…


First of all, mistaken as to whether Europa was a moon of Saturn or not, I couldn't be arsed to look it up. You know this and you're trying to make it appear as though I don't know anything on the subject based on me admitting that I'm unsure on a fact that has no effect on the outcome of my point and bares no relation to the facts I'm stating. This is an irritating habit of yours. Does it make you feel big to twist peoples words in an inane attempt to make them look stupid or are you so stupid that you actually think as you appear to do so?

As for my point. Believe it or not, I don't research everything 3 minutes before discussing it. I do use my own knowledge, reasoning and memory as a source for a lot of my arguments. This means I don't have a handy little webpage that I can link to for every point I make. I just want to get that clear because apparently your own opinion, idea or knowledge means jack shit on the internet now. What you say only means something if some other asshole said it before you, and I hate that idea. Normally I would be quite so defensive about this but for some reason I feel the need.

Lastly, I have looked it up. Europa is a moon of Jupiter, I was mistaken. There are a few sources that state we sent a sample probe in 2003 that I found in the library, one that says we sent a probe in 2005, others say we cancelled the probe in 2005, some that claim we've never landed on it but have sent orbital probes to take photos and one that claims that we will likely not land on Europa until 2017 so I've no idea which to believe however I distinctly remember a few years ago watching something on the Discovery Channel about people arguing over whether the Europan ice contained a contaminate from Earth or actual alien bacteria.

Interestingly enough I also managed to find claims in books that they had found Martian microbes in the ice samples brought back from Mars as well... something tells me that digging fact from fiction out of all of this is not going to be easy, especially with the conspiracy nuts claiming the moon landing was fake and idiots like the 'flat earth society' coming up with crap so that their precious bibles ain't disproven.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6604 - 03/29/08 10:40 AM Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: TornadoCreator]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
Wrong again…

It is a normal human emotion to first feel scorned when proven wrong… As Satanist you should realize I do not need you to say you were wrong… But I would hope you would think, admit to yourself that your were mistaken, and move on learning from the exchange…

Sadly that is hardly ever the scenario…

Simply put don’t write things as fact when you clearly do not have any knowledge of the subject or cannot be assed out to educate yourself… When you do so you do a disservice to yourself and any member of this forum… The fact that you stated you were unsure on something is ok by me but you then go on to mislead anyone reading to think that we are in possession of life possibly from another celestial body… Expect to be asked to produce evidence…

You are on a Satanic website the way this site has worked in the past is if you say something be ready to back it up… So you want to say it’s a bad thing to know about what you speak of, to gain knowledge before you form your opinion, to continually better yourself through learning? Is my Satanism too critical or harsh for you?

It is not your opinion that I was pointing out flaws with it was your statement of unsupported facts… If you cannot support your own facts then your opinions are pointless… Why does someone enhancing their posts with links to pictures, movies, or websites as evidence for the basis of their opinion seem to bother you?

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Does it make you feel big to twist peoples words in an inane attempt to make them look stupid or are you so stupid that you actually think as you appear to do so?

Does this sentence even make sense? Me feel big from a post on the Internet, twisting words? It does make me chuckle when someone gets so uptight over being shown the facts…

TC I have been here for a long time… If I did not contribute, if were here to simply boost my E-persona then I would have resided on the ban list a long long time ago… Get over your assumptions already… Picking up that banner like you and a few others have tried just makes you look ignorant…

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
You know this and you're trying to make it appear as though I don't know anything on the subject based on me admitting that I'm unsure on a fact that has no effect on the outcome of my point and bares no relation to the facts I'm stating. This is an irritating habit of yours.

As is your blatant ignorance… But lets not have that get in the way… Lets stick to the topic shall we?

 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Interestingly enough I also managed to find claims in books that they had found Martian microbes in the ice samples brought back from Mars as well...

Really? We brought back ice from Mars? How was this accomplished and when?

You might be confusing this information you remember with the meteorites that we say came from mars (found on earth) and the microscopic bacteria looking fossils left behind in the rock… Found Here

My problem again with your post is you declare that we have found other life in the form of microbes from ice on Europa or at least contaminated ice with our own bacteria… Yet when challenged you

A. Have no proof…
B. Try to turn this all around as a problem with me…
C. Continue to quote so called books you have read without supplying the name of these books…
D. Blame the lack of information on religious and conspiracy fanatics…

So I ask why bother posting this drivel?

~T~

Smile it is not all bad…

Could it be bigfoot?
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#6609 - 03/29/08 12:11 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: ta2zz]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1725
Loc: New York
Ta2zz and TC, you both make good points actually, regarding information, and discussions.

On one hand, it is a good idea to have as much information as possible when discussing a subject, with resources to refer to, if available, so that those who find a deeper interest in the subject matter, can do a bit of research on their own, to reach a conclusion.

On the other hand, with all the information now available, I find it almost impossible to read everything that is out there. (Although, when I really want to find out about something that is important to me, the internet gobblins seem to hide everything).

There is also a personal time limit. I can only surf the net, so many hours out of my day. I cannot possibly read everything on a particular subject that is out there, yet at the same time, if I become interested and excited about something, I might just want to throw it out there to see what others know about it.

Like many other people, I am still able to become excited over something to the point of having a “tunnel vision” about it, and perhaps desiring something to be true to the point of subconsciously ignoring facts, which might oppose that view.

When it comes to space Aliens, in my younger days, I wanted it to be a fact so much, that I would embrace any possible idea or claim to verify their existence, and the source of the information did not matter so much. I may have been much more easily misguided back then, yet, it was a more “magical” and exciting time.

Now that I am an old fart, and question everything, I find the world to be considerably more dull. This is not to say, that I would rather have my head in the clouds, and live in a fantasy world. I prefer what I perceive to be reality more, but it does lack that “magic.”

Basically what I am trying to say, is that for the sake of discussion, I don’t believe that we have to be research specialists to have a discussion here, as long as we have something of mutual interest to discuss, but in that case, it would not be beneficial for us to feel offended if someone rips our argument apart with more facts, as long as it is done in the spirit of “enlightenment,” and education.

Getting back to the subject matter of space aliens, I could talk for hours about the possibilities, because of the universes infinite size (if it is infinite), the odds of other life forms forming out there, claims by others of close encounters, the government and it’s role in mis-information and such.

However, all I can honestly say, without any doubt is, “How the fuck should I know?”
I have never seen a space alien, or even a UFO. Although my parents have a very believable and interesting experience they swear to. They appear quite sane and down to earth, but I have never dug in their basement. It could be full of bodies.

I just don’t know.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#6613 - 03/29/08 12:43 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: ta2zz]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
You are offensively condescending ain't you ta2zz? Is there a reason you act like this online?

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator

Does it make you feel big to twist peoples words in an inane attempt to make them look stupid or are you so stupid that you actually think as you appear to do so?

Does this sentence even make sense?


Yes. It is perfectly correct grammatically, unfortunately on reading this back it is hard to grasp the meaning behind the sentence, especially out of content, however you may find it easier to understand if you drop the last two words of the sentence.

I'm not going to bother engaging you in debate any longer ta2zz, you are immature and insulting when there is no need or value in doing so. Sure you're a Satanist, why should you pull punches and entertain nonsense just to preserve the feeling of someone on the internet? You shouldn't. However does being a Satanist remove all sense of manners, etiquette, compassion and common courtesy? Are you incapable of disagreeing with someone and telling them they are wrong without belittling them or insulting them. Your posts are an endless array of ad hominem and reductio ad absurdum arguments designed with the intent of bolstering your ego. The only reason I have not added you to my ignore list is that I prefer to see the entirety of any topic of discussion, blocking what you say would damage the continuity of the discussions.

 Originally Posted By: ta2zz
If I did not contribute, if were here to simply boost my E-persona then I would have resided on the ban list a long long time ago

Believe me when I say, if I had access to the big "ban" button it would have taken a lot of self control to not ban you for being personally abusive to so many people, albeit slyly enough that it doesn't appear malicious. You're not banned because you've not outright broken the rules here and I agree with those rules, you're disliked for being an asshole and treating people on here as though they are perpetually below you.

For example assuming that I must be confused by the book that claimed we found like in the ice cap on Mars. No I meant what I said, I found a fucking book in the library that claimed we had discovered life in the ice on Mars. I never claimed the book was right did I, in fact there where connotations in my post that shown I was sceptical of the validity of the book if you didn't keep quoting me out of context. And guess what else, I didn't decide to mark down the title of this book for future reference in a debate with you. I was idly looking though books in the library, but then the idea that people don't file away everything they read for future reference during "I OWNZ j00 on teh iNtErNeTz" competitions is somewhat alien to you isn't it.

I will not be replying to you in future ta2zz, you show neither me, nor the majority of the members on this site any respect and I will therefore be ignoring you from this point on until I am otherwise convinced that you have stopped acting in you childish and insulting manner. I encourage others to do the same.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6615 - 03/29/08 12:59 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: TornadoCreator]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
Print is so hard to understand at times, especially since we can’t here the tone of the poster's voice. Not that i'm a brown nosing dork, but I don't feel belittled when Ta2zz trumps my intelligence. Its like constructive criticism in a way. I think debating should be more an exchange of ideas and opinions to add to what ideas and opinions we might already have. Thats my two dollars. I'll let you two go at each other and watch the drama. When I read posts that seem to attack my intelligence I imagine the person who posted it signing it to me like in an opera; that way it doesn't feel like i'm being attacked and i won't take it personally \:\) Tats and Asmedeus are great opera signers lol. Anyways.

<3 Kayla


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/29/08 01:17 PM)
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#6618 - 03/29/08 02:11 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Perhaps, but it's only ta2zz who I find offensive. Others I find abrasive at times, like rob_church or Zeph but it's just the way they've typed something and can often be attributed to a misunderstanding, misinterpretation or a failure to convey tone thus it can be overlooked as you said. ta2zz isn't like that. He's consistently offensive and abrasive, so as rule eight states "Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself", I'm no longer subjecting myself to ta2zz insults.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6619 - 03/29/08 02:19 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: TornadoCreator]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
Darnit then TC. No more drama. Me and you we're like the Prom King and Queen of this club. Seems like a third of all the posts is just either me or you lol. I wanna be the Prom King. About this alien jazz, i guess we can simply say: fuck it? whats it matter if they exists or not, doesn't directly effect us either way huh?
_________________________
Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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#6620 - 03/29/08 02:32 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
I'm sure I'll cave eventually and have a go at ta2zz for something... I'm not known for keeping to the Satanic rules particularly well, especially when something I'm passionate about is brought into it, so no panic, the drama won't end entirely.

As for the Prom King/Queen positions, I think we make a good couple for it, but be warned, I'm not ready for a commitment... I'm just been hurt too many times goddammit.... *whimper*

As for alien life. I've always found it intriguing. I want there to be alien life, that's why I wish I could find the damn documentary that said about the sample from Europa because I want it to be true, but more than half the sources I check say we've not even landed on Europa. I'm lost as to what is fact or not any more on this topic, the sources can't seem to agree and most the ones online are out of date, strangely enough. I guess I'll have to deal with not knowing for now.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6622 - 03/29/08 02:40 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: TornadoCreator]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
I'm sure I'll cave eventually and have a go at ta2zz for something... I'm not known for keeping to the Satanic rules particularly well, especially when something I'm passionate about is brought into it, so no panic, the drama won't end entirely.

As for the Prom King/Queen positions, I think we make a good couple for it, but be warned, I'm not ready for a commitment... I'm just been hurt too many times goddammit.... *whimper*

As for alien life. I've always found it intriguing. I want there to be alien life, that's why I wish I could find the damn documentary that said about the sample from Europa because I want it to be true, but more than half the sources I check say we've not even landed on Europa. I'm lost as to what is fact or not any more on this topic, the sources can't seem to agree and most the ones online are out of date, strangely enough. I guess I'll have to deal with not knowing for now.


You're right, we do make a good prom king and queen couple. we're both sexy, smart, somewhat articulate, and sociable. lol, you whimpered. awe, i would never break your heart.

TC, have you ever heard of the "Panspermia" theory? What if we're looking for signs of like in all the wrong places. We assume that biological life starts on a planet; what if life begins in space? Like the nebulous clouds? I've read somewhere that amino acids were found in some of these. Than i read somewhere that there is a cloud of alcohol in space the size of a galaxy. Fakepropht will be very interested in this galactic cloud of beer \:\)


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (03/29/08 02:42 PM)
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#6623 - 03/29/08 03:22 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
There is a theory that life on earth itself began in space and was brought in via meteorites, it has no evidence to back it up at present so it dismissed by some scientist but it's something that's yet to be investigated, so I can see it as a possibility.
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#6656 - 03/29/08 07:12 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
Than i read somewhere that there is a cloud of alcohol in space the size of a galaxy. Fakepropht will be very interested in this galactic cloud of beer
What?! How do I get there? I will have my mug in hand. Hang it out the window as we pass through. A galaxy of alcohol. How long until Hooters builds a space shuttle and books flights there? I better start drinking cheaper beer and saving pennies for that flight.
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Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#6659 - 03/29/08 07:33 PM Re: Bring me aliens humans suck... [Re: fakepropht]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
 Quote:
Than i read somewhere that there is a cloud of alcohol in space the size of a galaxy. Fakepropht will be very interested in this galactic cloud of beer
What?! How do I get there? I will have my mug in hand. Hang it out the window as we pass through. A galaxy of alcohol. How long until Hooters builds a space shuttle and books flights there? I better start drinking cheaper beer and saving pennies for that flight.

LOL! Thats your home galaxy Proph! Its true thoe. I read it in a science journal about organic compounds in outer space. There's a cloud of alcohol as big as a galaxy out there. There is a God!
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


~~352~~


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