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#19778 - 02/06/09 03:06 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Dimitri]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
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Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
Have you ever really known film to ever actually portray life as it is naturally? I think not, so why would a film wether it's about satanists or popes communicate either real popes or satanists?
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#19785 - 02/06/09 04:09 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: The Zebu]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Yeah, I know we don't really NEED masturbatory films with positively-portrayed Satanic characters.... but it would be cool anyways.


I think Godfather II approaches what you're looking for. Satanism is never mentioned, but Vito Corleone and Michael Corleone are both portrayed as strong, proud, brave, and successful.

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#19794 - 02/06/09 05:22 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Zoid]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
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Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
 Originally Posted By: Zoid

I think Godfather II approaches what you're looking for. Satanism is never mentioned, but Vito Corleone and Michael Corleone are both portrayed as strong, proud, brave, and successful.


Did you read the book? It's about faggots Mario Puzo goes into great detail about homo shit there's way better stuff about the mafia media wise but I suppose Mario Puzo constitutes wise media doesn't it Zoid?

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#19823 - 02/06/09 10:04 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: joseph oreilly]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
it's about faggots Mario Puzo goes into great detail about homo shit there's way better stuff about the mafia media wise


Nice job posting acceptable material for this site. It really displays your intellect.

To answer your first question...

 Quote:
Have you ever really known film to ever actually portray life as it is naturally? I think not, so why would a film wether it's about satanists or popes communicate either real popes or satanists?


Wrong. The answer is yes. There are plenty documentaries about issues taking place in the real world, as well as many movies that portray situations that can (if they haven't already) happen. A movie about satanists or popes can very well touch on the lives of real popes and satanists. It's all up to whoever is writing the film. Some directors go to certain extremes to bring a touch of reality to their work, whether it's merely a work of fiction, a historical drama, a documentary, science fiction, and so on.

You seem very confused on this site so far...Most of your claims have either no meaning behind them or they're simply unreasonable and confusing.

Am I the only one here who sees this?
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20622 - 02/17/09 03:53 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Mike]
NihilisticMystic Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Albuquerque New Mexico United ...
I think Jess Franco's Exorcism attempts to portray Satanism with an authentic touch, but fails. The plot centers around a defrocked priest who hunts down the members of a satanic cult in various violent ways.
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#23764 - 04/24/09 01:55 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: NihilisticMystic]
The Zebu Offline
active member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1129
Loc: Orlando, FL
So yah, I recently watched "Wrong Turn 2", which is basically about a Survivor-type reality show in the American countryside that goes dreadfully wrong when the contestants get massacred by mutant cannibal hillbillies.

Anyway, it had a wide variety of stock characters/meatbags, such as "the slut", "the skater dude", "the nice guy", "the innocent hero girl", and the "loner goth chick". It struck me as amusing that the loner goth chick was an intellectual-artist type, wearing a "Praise Satan" t-shirt and lived by a "rely only on yourself" modus operandi. But of course, I thought, "oh, lovely, another social Darwinist in a slasher film... she's not gonna last too long."

However, I was even more amused when the movie flipped everything on its head, and the innocent-hero-girl type was actually killed off early on in the movie. The survivors turned out to be the Satanist goth chick and the "nice guy".

So I guess this film wins the award for "First film with a Satanist protagonist". (It also got pretty good ratings too, which is surprising for a low-budget slasher flick.)

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#24624 - 05/15/09 12:48 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: The Zebu]
lefthanded Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Virginia,Us
The last "crow" movie was about satanists but it portrayed our concepts in an idioticly horrendous way.I havent seen any movies that portrayed Satanism in a realistic and authentic manner.
_________________________
you cannot kill what you did not create
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#28326 - 08/12/09 01:57 AM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Sharschosen]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
veteran member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Some old favorites & curiosities ...

The Devil’s Rain. 1975. In 1974 CE Robert Fuest, who directed the Dr. Phibes films, decided to film a horror movie with Satanism as its theme. He took an anemic novel about Wiccan-witchcraft in New England and hired Anton LaVey as technical advisor to spice it up, which he did - adding touches of LaVey artwork, Mexican extras chanting Enochian Keys, and "Satanic Priest" Ernest Borgnine intoning extracts from the invocation in my "Ceremony of the Nine Angles" in The Satanic Rituals. The setting was moved to Durango, Mexico ("Redstone"), and the colorful cast included Ida Lupino, William Shater [just before the Star Trek movie revival], John Travolta [his screen debut - a fight & fall downstairs], and cameos for Anton (a gold-helmeted Priest) and Diane (Borgnine’s colonial-era wife) LaVey. While the film was [and is] lots of fun for those in the know about all this, it bombed at the box office and is today only rarely shown on television. See some clips here.

Asylum of Satan. 1975. Charles Kissinger, Carla Borelli. DVD: “Something Weird Video” #ID1598SWDVD. Around 1971CE, when I was Priest III° of the Nineveh Grotto in Louisville, Kentucky, a local commercial film company decided to try for the big time by making a Satanic horror movie - using local theatrical talent. Since they had a Church of Satan in town, they asked us if we would handle the ritual scene. I wrote the script, Nineveh designed the chamber, and we imported the Rosemary’s Baby devil-suit [with a new head] from Hollywood. The result of all this was a ham sandwich of a movie with, if I say so, a rather zesty ritual sequence. The company is no longer in existence, but somehow this thing survived as a videocassette - and later, in 2002, as a digitally-remastered, widescreen DVD, complete with a commentary by the original filmmakers which is at least as charming as the film itself Dry-ice, rubber snakes & bugs, and plaid trousers on the hero will all scare you frightfully. See a background discussion here.

The Devil Rides Out. Hammer Films, 1968. Screenplay by Richard Matheson. Director: Terence Fisher. Christopher Lee. Probably one of the best Hammer films ever made - now available in a Hammer Collection DVD (Anchor Bay #DV10666). It is a very accurate screenplay of Dennis Wheatley’s first and most famous Satanism novel. Look for Charles Gray’s silky-evil portrayal of Mocata, the character whom Wheatley specifically modeled after Aleister Crowley, an acquaintance of his. One other Wheatley Satanism novel, To the Devil a Daughter, was also made into a film, but it is a ghastly mess which bears no comparison to the book. Wheatley’s novels are generally available in British editions, with occasional American publication. Other novels in his ‘Satanism’ series include The Satanist, They Used Dark Forces, and The Ka of Gifford Hillary.

Fade to Black. 1983. Dennis Christopher and Linda Kerridge, Mickey Rourke. Director: Vernon Zimmerman. In the flavor of Kenneth Anger’s Hollywood Babylon books, this is a horror movie about a young, aliented film buff, Eric Binford, who, in a different application of lycanthropy, assumes various characters from classic films to give himself ‘their powers’. Viewers may recognize the parallels to the 1974+ interests of Anton LaVey, to include the presence of Marilyn Monroe as Eric’s ideal woman and ‘death angel’.

The Brotherhood of Satan. 1971. Strother Martin, L.Q. Jones. After the success of Rosemary’s Baby, Hollywood floundered around trying to capitalize on the Satanism theme with a couple of failures like The Mephisto Waltz. This was the first film to start ‘getting it right’, and it was the brainchild of a little-known producer/director, L.Q. Jones, who also starred as the sheriff in the film. Strother Martin plays a surprisingly effective Satanic Priest.

The Black Cat. Universal, 1934. Boris Karloff, Bela Lugosi. A remarkable essay in Art Deco/Satanism starring Karloff as the Satanist and Lugosi as his only-slightly-less-sinister opponent. The story line, centering on a house inspired by the Ennis-Brown house in Hollywood, has nothing to do with the Poe version. Included is a stylized Black Mass - about as close as Hollywood would come to UFA-expressionism.

Satanis, the Devil’s Mass. 1970. DVD: “Something Weird Video” DVD #ID1615SWDVD. Satanis was a commercial documentary of the Church of Satan in San Francisco, filmed in 1968CE and shown almost exclusively in a San Francisco art-theater. It includes ritual sequences, interviews with Anton, Diane, and Karla LaVey, and footage of the premises of the original Central Grotto house on California Street in San Francisco. An amusing sequence shows the blessing of Isaac Bonewits’ penis by Anton LaVey. IB was later tossed out of the C/S and went on to become a self-proclaimed ‘druid’. Whether the spell is still effective is not known.

The Seven Faces of Dr. Lao. 1964. Tony Randall, Barbara Eden. Produced by George Pal. On the whole, a pretty effective film treatment of The Circus of Dr. Lao by Charles G. Finney. NY: Viking Press, 1935 [reprinted paperback: Avon #19190, 1974]. Commented Anton LaVey: “A tale that tells it all; every human foible is dissected. It is the epic of man’s desire and futility: Zarathustra under canvas - an excursion to the highest Llamasery of the Red Monks for those who can read it.” This is the story of a traveling circus which arrives suddenly in a small town in the Arizona desert. It is a very unusual circus, including among its attractions a satyr, Apollonius of Tyana, a Gorgon, a mermaid, a roc, a chimæra, a sea-serpent, and a werewolf. Its main show includes such exotica as a witches’ sabbath, complete with personal appearance by Satan. Dr. Lao, the enigmatic Chinaman who ringmasters this show, is one minute a bumpkin, the next an intellectual, and always a magician - in short, a kind of Chinese ASLV.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux]

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#28327 - 08/12/09 03:16 AM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Azathoth68 Offline
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Registered: 07/18/09
Posts: 51
Loc: Denver, CO USA
Those interested can catch Satanis: The Devil's Mass on You Tube here. It's split up into 6 parts, the nudity has been removed, but it's still a fun way to kill some time. The DVD is on eBay for about ten dollars usually, for those who want the uncut version.
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#28988 - 08/28/09 06:27 AM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
senior member


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2231
Loc: Oregon
There are alot of movies, books and indeed even songs and poetry that tell the story of people who show Satanic "tendencies" (for lack of a better word) because I think these "tendencies" are ones to be admired because they demonstrate the sheer power of human will and desire to prevail against all odds. Such demonstrations of that "power" are expected to be seen in the Satanist. On the other hand; such qualities can be found in people who aren't Satanists, and I think it takes much more than those "tendencies" to make one a Satanist, even if they do help.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°

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#28999 - 08/28/09 12:51 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
senior member


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2231
Loc: Oregon
Don't worry Maw that was just a general reply and in no way directed at you. I just finally decided post in this thread after reading yours. No need to explain yourself to little 'ol me. \:D
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#29003 - 08/28/09 01:29 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Sharschosen]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 1357
I do not think there are "real Satanic movies", even so I even think they will never exist.
Movies are things of amusement. It is a tool used to please and relax the human. A movie might have certain quotes, theme's and scenes related to Satanism, even might BE about Satanism, but it will never ever show, or be pointed out as, real Satanism.

Real Satanism, as far as I am concerned, is purely objective. No film, book, play or anything else acted is real Satanism. Books and films can be used as tools to show the general public what the main principles of Satanism are. The real deal is living them and applying them in your life. This is something what most self-proclaimed Satanists don't get. Most think that by wearing Satanic symbols (tattoos, necklaces, bracelets, rings, patches..) they "become" one, yet fail to apply the philosophy they want to follow in their life.

The films given untill now are nothing more then products of amusement and will never let the audience experience what real Satanism is. Same goes for the books, both films and books are just mere tools.


Edited by Dimitri (08/28/09 01:30 PM)
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#29008 - 08/28/09 08:40 PM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2174
Archetypical aspects of "Satanic" ideal or character can be portrayed in movies, but unlike the old saw about peeling back the layers of an onion, the only thing you actually get is more onion. True, people are multidimensional, and in their multidimensionality seem to be more complex than they actually are. So you can have a character who's a "whole Satanist," but the layers of that onion are more than likely to peel back to reveal pretty much the gamut of social, emotional and cultural workings that may or may not fit the stereotypical "SATANIST" in the perception of the viewer.

Some of the movies that Dr. LaVey screened for me in the 80s had very "satanic" characters in them. They still had flashes of what some of the more "gothic" minded of Satanists would consider soft, and flashes that some would consider over the top and verging on cartoonish. But how is this possible? How can a Satanist be a Satanist and at the same time be HUMAN? How indeed! Imagine... a human behaving like one.

For instance, in the 1947 movie THE GANGSTER, with Barry Sullivan playing the lead role of Shubunka, we see a gangster who controls his area. People pay deference to his bearing and his obvious power. He's large and in charge. Master of his domain.

But beneath his facade is a man who is paranoid, cynical, distrusting of anyone and everyone around him, looking for the axe to fall at any moment... someone, he knows, eventually will try to take him down. Then, it happens. And he begins to see his own true weaknesses when trying to call in favors to fight off this attempt to grab his territory and save his own life. One by one, those he helped, those he supported and those he loved let him down, and he spirals into realization and certainty that this will be the end. When the end comes, his final monologue resonates within the "satanic subconscious" of one's mind... it's a bitter, scathing diatribe, but one that rings true. "Maybe I too good. Maybe I wasn't BAD ENOUGH!"

In all of the movies that one might watch with Dr. LaVey in those the purple room after the night's work was done, few were simply "movies to watch." There was something to be gained from them. Like any you were learning that SATANIC means something, and it wasn't pot smoking, or rock playing or dressing in black. There were things to be learned about humanity and dichotomy and their place within the human mind and yes, the Satanist has a human mind; sometimes more discerning than other.

Try THE BITTER TEA OF GENERAL YEN from (1933). A Frank Capra movie staring Barbara Stanwyck and Nils Asher.

Try 10 RILLINGTON PLACE (1971). The story of serial killer John Christie, played by John Attenborough.

Try THE RULING CLASS (1972). Not only a tour de force for Peter O'Toole, but a slapstick comedy turning deadly.

These are all movies that will show the Satanic in man, from various aspects, but ALSO the dichotomic nature of man. Both sides of the coin must be considered in pretty much all things, and man is certainly no exception. A completely evil person is just as much of an aberration as one whose life could be ruled solely by altruism. The difference is that the Satanist side, while more interesting in the long run, is often overshadowed by the tangental nuances of the rest of "the onion."
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#29012 - 08/29/09 01:58 AM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Jake999]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
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Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Some of the movies that Dr. LaVey screened for me in the 80s had very "satanic" characters in them. They still had flashes of what some of the more "gothic" minded of Satanists would consider soft, and flashes that some would consider over the top and verging on cartoonish. But how is this possible? How can a Satanist be a Satanist and at the same time be HUMAN? How indeed! Imagine... a human behaving like one.

Did Anton ever screen Nightmare Alley for you? If so, it would be interesting to hear his comments concerning it to you. From my ehistory:

 Originally Posted By: The Church of Satan
At about this time [1947] Howard became fascinated with a 1946 novel by William Lindsay Gresham, Nightmare Alley. As later summarized by Nikolas Schreck:

 Originally Posted By: Nikolas Schreck
Stanton Carlisle, an ambitious carny on the make, learns a few techniques for “cold reading” or “mitt reading” rubes and telling them what they want to hear. Armed with a philosophy consisting of “One in five is a born chump” (page #19) and “Misdirection is the whole works, honey” (page 35), our hero spruces himself up and develops his spiel. He declares himself a Reverend and impresses the credulous by donning a clerical collar.

The crooked Reverend gets hold of an old house, which he calls “the Church” of his controversial religion. “With this house I can gimmick it up from cellar to attic,” (page 136) he crows, going into the spook racket with a vengeance. In the early days of the Church, the Reverend makes a living charging for nightly lectures on esoteric topics and teaching “development classes” to his disciples. Topics for these lectures are cribbed from obscure books with which he assumes his audience will not be familiar.

He develops a polished, cultured manner of public speaking for his clerical activities, while privately retaining the vulgar, tough-guy lingo of his carnival days. This double life begins to create psychic strain, and he becomes paranoid, fretting that “there could be a cabal forming against him in the Church.” (page 154) He tires of small fry and seeks the company of “well-heeled” clientele.

His mistrust of everyone ferments into a pathological misogyny, and he takes out his fears and insecurities on the “dames” in his life, mistreating and eventually pimping them. This does not prevent him from blaming all of his self-created misfortunes on what he sees as female deviousness and treachery.

Eventually this hard-eyed cynic, who likes to think he’s a few steps ahead of the world he despises, ends up as an impoverished freak. Far from achieving the “big time” success he longs for, he spends his last days as a forgotten laughing stock.

According to Zeena, her father became mesmerized by this book, deciding that his own middle name of “Stanton” signified a magical or psychic link between himself and “Stanton Carlisle”. He proceeded to pattern much of his own personality and lifestyle after the model of Carlisle, kept a poster from the Tyrone Power film of the novel prominently displayed in his own home, and included author Gresham’s name on the dedication page of his Satanic Bible. He named his second daughter Zeena after a central character in the novel and later insisted that she name her own son after the “Stanton” in the novel. [At that time, according to Zeena, she did not know Anton’s real middle name was also “Stanton”.]
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Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux]

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#29016 - 08/29/09 03:03 AM Re: Real Satanism? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2174
Well... it was clear that the book meant something important to him. He wasn't "consumed by it" by any means, and we did watch the movie once, and he pointed out some of the scenes which he felt were important for different reasons, one being the cold reading techniques demonstrated by the Pete, the drunken old mitt camp reader when he spoke to Stanton about reading the mark:

"You know kid -- Pete drew himself up until his head nearly touched the boards of the ceiling. The alcohol seemed to stiffen his back. His chin came up commandingly. Stan, lad like you could be a great mentalist. Study human nature!" He took a long, last pull at the bottle and finished it. Barely swaying, he opened his eyes wide and swallowed.

"Here -- chord from the orchestra, amber spot -- and I'm on. Make my spiel and give them one laugh, plenty mystery. Then I jump right into the reading. Here's m'crystal." He focused his eye on the empty whisky bottle and Stan watched him with an uneasy twinge. Pete seemed to be coming alive. His eyes became hot and intent.

Then his voice altered and took on depth and power. He passed his left hand slowly over the bottle's surface. "Since the dawn of history," he began, "mankind sought to see beyond the veil which hides him from tomorrow. And through the ages certain men have gazed into the polished crystal and have seen. Is it some property of the crystal itself? Or does the gazer used it merely to turn his eyes inward? Who can tell? But visions come. Slowly, shifting their form, visions come..."

Stan found himself watching the empty bottle in which a single pale drop slanted across the bottom. He could not take his eyes away, so contagious was the other's absorption.

"Wait! The shifting shapes begin to clear. I see fields of grass and rolling hills. A a boy -- a boy is running through bare feet through the fields. A dog is with him."

Too swiftly for his wary mind to check him, Stan whispered the words, "Yes. Gyp."

Pete's eyes burned down into the glass. "Happiness then... moving... one man stands out... evil... the boy hates him. Death and the wish of death..."

Stan moved like an explosion. He snatched for the bottle; it slipped and fell to the ground. He kicked it into a corner, his breath coming quick and rapid.

Pete stood for a moment, gazing at his empty hand, then dropped his arm. His shoulders sagged. He crumpled into the folding chair, resting his elbows on the card table. When he raised his face to Stan, his eyes were glazed, the mouth slack. "I didn't mean nothing, boy. You ain't mad at me are ya? Just fooling around. Stock reading -- fits everybody. Only you got to dress it up." His tongue had thickened and he paused, his head drooping, then he snapped up again. "Everybody had some trouble. Somebody they wanted to kill. Usually for a boy it's the old man. What's childhood? Happiness one minute, heartbroke the next. Every boy had a dog. Or a neighbor's dog--"

Nightmare Alley - William Lindsay Gresham

That was what LaVey seemed to feel was the pivotal moment of the film (this scene quoted from the book), along with the theme of gaining it all and losing it all.

And he was pretty open about naming Zeena for Stanton's love interest in the book and urging Zeena to name her child Stanton. But as far as being "mesmerized," I would say that he did find parallels to his own life and sometimes exploited them and other times looked at them as a "cautionary tale." But then there were a lot of books and movies that he also took significant meaning from, such as the Circus of Dr. Lao and Wise Blood and The Ruling Class.
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