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#68103 - 06/30/12 02:55 PM A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely!
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel

This note is for supporters of the Church of Satan!

I can't seem to find any topic about this, so I'm going to point something out:
After a research of a few hours, I have to make it clear that many Satanists are using a fake, unrelated to CoS, Sigil of Baphomet in their blogs, websites, etc.
This is the correct, official Sigil of Baphomet, registered to the Church of Satan:

The letters in Hebrew mean: Leviathan (לויתן)
Now the widely used, fake sigil is the following:

See the difference? The letters says B-Z-N-R-Ts (בזנרץ) (since the letter "ץ" can come ONLY in the end of a word), which means absolutely NOTHING (source: I know Hebrew, I'm from Israel).

If so, where did it come from?
After a short investigation, the only valid explanation is: The fake sigil is used by the black metal band Cradle Of Filth in their album "The Principle Of Evil Made Flesh" - the CD and the inner part of the front cover. The reason they changed the letters is most likely* to avoid copyright infringement (the Leviathan version is registered to the Church of Satan, while the inner pentacle is actually in the public domain).
* No official word from the band on this subject.

Some images:
CD: http://www.covershut.com/cd_covers/Cradl...Cover-10830.jpg
Front Cover: http://www.covershut.com/covers/Cradle-O...Cover-10830.jpg


Edited by IcyClawz (06/30/12 03:39 PM)
Edit Reason: Made something clear.
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#68106 - 06/30/12 03:22 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Erich Zann Offline
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Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
It's pretty common that people use the Baphomet they like best, if any. There are no rules which Baphomet is "real" and which isn't. You are right when it comes to the fact that there is one the CoS officially uses - but that doesn't make it the ultimate Baphomet to be used by every Satanist in the world. Furthermore, most of the people around here are not related (anymore) to the CoS at all.

If your favorite Baphomet would be made of french fries or apples it would be as good as the CoS' one - use what works best for you, not what a single organization registered as a trademark.
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#68107 - 06/30/12 03:34 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Erich Zann]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
That's true, but I'm writing this for people who thought they use the CoS sigil. I doubt many would love to use a sigil with no meaning at all, that publicized by some band. After all, it's not the case "which sigil you prefer" because they are absolutely the same (except the letters, of course), only that one has a meaning and one has no meaning at all.
I've seen this mostly in blogs where people show off their The Satanic Bible copy, and then the fake sigil. I'm SURE they meant the CoS sigil, not just any sigil, but didn't realize/notice the difference.

EDIT: Made it clear in the main post, that it's a note for CoS supporters.
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#68108 - 06/30/12 03:45 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Most of such blogs aren't read often nor is there a high probability of written value.
The baphomet, be it the real or "false" one, only signifies a wanting to associate with the term "Satanism". Few fucks are given on the difference. Both have the same function really.. only by use of marketing there is difference.


Edited by Dimitri (06/30/12 03:50 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo
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#68109 - 06/30/12 03:51 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
Well then, be this post for the few who "give a rats ass on the difference". I just made a point for those who care but are uninformed.
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#68120 - 06/30/12 08:22 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Its all in retrospect, folks. The Sigil of Baphomet posted in this thread known as the CoS official copyrighted symbol is NOT the first symbol in honor and image of the godhead Baphomet. Who is to say that sometime in the future there won't be a new symbol devised that supersedes the current power and authority that tends to rest with the Sigil of Baphomet? There are numerous images on necklace pendants, t shirts, album covers, stickers, etc., that are technically sigils (seals or magical signs or images) of Baphomet (the goat crafed godhead supposedly originating from the Knights Templar prior to it giving birth to the Masonic Temple). When looking at symbols, try not to get too caught in the corporate mentality of immediately affiliating it with the money making bigots that wants you to stay in their herd mentality of spending money on anything and everything they present to you as the ultimate convenience, if not something "necessary" for you to have.
Look at the Lorraine Cross used on the page of the Satanic Bible containing the Nine Satanic Statements. It technically can be named an infinite Celtic cross, according to its design and the 2 symbols that it holds (the '8' laying on its side stands for infinity, and the Lorraine cross above it is said to be a sybmol for brimstone- a Roman cross with an added line going right to left).
However, seeing someone who speaks and reads Hebrew has posted that the "Hebrew characters" in the fake Sigil of Baphomet mean literally nothing, perhaps we should look out for this symbol and be weary of its usage or acceptance. I myself have seen a fake Sigil of Baphomet likened unto the one in this thread being sold at a t shirt shop. I am sure copyright reasons led to the division of this version.
Below is a link to EBay- I typed "Baphomet pendant" in the search query and lots of cool necklaces are for sale, even if not the official Church of Satan sigil.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=Baphomet+pendants&_sacat=0




Edited by LeftHandonFeet (06/30/12 08:35 PM)
Edit Reason: added a website link that will help readers of my post to understand it better
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#68133 - 07/01/12 12:55 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
A fake sigil of baphomet?! Well Jebus Titty-Fucking Chryst, rally the troops because something must be done to put an end to this terrible scourge!

Seriously though; who fucking cares?! It seems like a very inconsequential thing to get your panties in a bunch over.
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#68139 - 07/01/12 03:19 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Erich Zann]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Erich Zann
...Furthermore, most of the people around here are not related (anymore) to the CoS at all. If your favorite Baphomet would be made of french fries or apples it would be as good as the CoS' one - use what works best for you...
I agree with You! I'm from Latvia and because of geographical distance (from Latvia) I'm never been related with CoS... Of course I read great book of high priest Priest of the Church of Satan, Peter H. Gilmore and other good stuff...

I'm Laveyan Satanist and a bit self-made Satanist and for me such hairsplitting like right and false Baphomet isn't important...
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#68143 - 07/01/12 04:07 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
ta2zz Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

There was a time you could tell the initiated from the wannabe through how much of the misinformation they spewed. Now the world has to explain everything so even the idiotic can parrot the basics. Due to this everything is becoming mediocre because everyone thinks they understand and can do anything and everything.

If we were to take this example as being of any importance in my eyes you’re not really helping anyone. Maybe you’re just trying to help the tr00-Satanists® ?

Dare I point out that every symbol in Satanism is borrowed from elsewhere? Even that so called registered trademark of the COS.

In reading this page I have to believe the Sigil you point out comes from Walpurgis 9's Hellish Graphics.

In reading this I was always under the impression the trademark registered has to contain the words Church of Satan.

Am I incorrect in my interpretation of this?

~T~
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#68146 - 07/01/12 05:58 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: ta2zz]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
I guess you all miss the point and make it hard on yourself. I wasn't talking about the "sole validity of the CoS sigil", I was talking specifically about this one - this meaningless sigil. But so be it, use the B-Z-N-R-Ts for I don't give a rat's ass. You'll look funny when someone asks you what your sigil means, you won't be able to explain it (saying that your B-Z-N-R-Ts means "Leviathan" is just lying and making yourself a "smartass"). I can't see the point of using something you cannot explain. But that's me. Whatever.
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#68147 - 07/01/12 06:10 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Few have asked me what the sigil means. As a matter of fact; no one ever did. I don't even use it ;\) Take a chill pill.
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#68148 - 07/01/12 06:19 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
I'm actually very chill, thanks.
It's funny how you turned an informative post into subjective thread. Wasn't meant to be subjective, but only a side-note for those who care. If you give a damn of what you represent, it's your own problem. I do give a damn, and I always strive to perfection when it comes to presenting myself. For all I care, you can call yourself Bznrats, instead of Satanists. After all, "who gives a damn about the difference?", it's a matter of choice isn't it? I proudly support the CoS and LaVeyan Satanism, and choose my symbols wisely.
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#68151 - 07/01/12 07:39 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Jason King Offline
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Registered: 10/24/10
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Yeah, I actually had a private exchange a while back on this very topic. My best guess was that the fake baph lettering was perhaps the transcripted name of one of the band members. And, you're absolutely correct, Tzaddi in the final form gives the exact word order, and it is no word in Hebrew.

Whether they did it for copyright or not, the usage of a final form would indicate familiarity with the rules of Hebrew word formation, which would indicate specific intent as to meaning.

JK
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#68152 - 07/01/12 07:45 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
Yeah. The whole point of this post was to inform people that what's written on the false sigil equals to "Blablabla". I love every form of Pentagram, even the Pagan/Wiccan versions of it, they all very artistic to me. But when you write some meaningless bullshit on it, I feel it's disrespectful to my belief. That's my point of view. And if you're being asked what the letters mean, how can you proudly answer if you yourself have no damn idea - embarrassing situation. Instead of giving the impression that you're a wise person, you'll confirm to them their first thought (that you're probably another freak of some sort).
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#68155 - 07/01/12 09:13 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Hardly subjective.. but it is hard to ignore your issues and need to correct. You strive for perfection in presentation? Good for you. Keep your shit straight, others will also be minding theirs.. they do not need you to write it down for them. Searching out things yourself is always more worthwhile as opposed of others telling so.

Support CoS as much as you want. Point out what you think is correct or faulty. Do your pathworking. I'll be keeping myself busy with supporting/indulging/exploring/working with/in/on Satanism. ;\)


Edited by Dimitri (07/01/12 09:14 AM)
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#68156 - 07/01/12 09:20 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
Jason King Offline
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Hardly subjective.. but it is hard to ignore your issues and need to correct. You strive for perfection in presentation? Good for you. Keep your shit straight, others will also be minding theirs.. they do not need you to write it down for them. Searching out things yourself is always more worthwhile as opposed of others telling so.

Support CoS as much as you want. Point out what you think is correct of faulty. Do your pathworking. I'll be keeping myself busy with supporting/indulging/exploring/working with/in/on Satanism. ;\)


Actually, I think he was pointing out a flawed symbol in popular circulation, nothing more. We all "raise the horns" so to speak, but what if we bannered ourselves with an obscure hieroglyph that read "kick me" in translation? This was his point, if I read correctly, nothing more.

JK
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#68161 - 07/01/12 11:23 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
Actually, I think he was pointing out a flawed symbol in popular circulation, nothing more. We all "raise the horns" so to speak, but what if we bannered ourselves with an obscure hieroglyph that read "kick me" in translation? This was his point, if I read correctly, nothing more.

JK

Thank you, it is really that simple.
It's like someone wears a shirt with the sigil (or wants to make a tattoo of the sigil), but the letters are IAAFI, which would mean "I am a fucking idiot", without knowing it, so I'm just pointing out the flaw for those who did not notice, not for those who do not care.
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#68162 - 07/01/12 12:26 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Then those who used the hieroglyph are kicked. His point came across, I only find little to no value. I might as well make a comment on the "I'm with stupid" shirts and say they are fake because the real ones have a different font.

I can continue to nag because the label on one says to wash at 60° and the other at 90° and the color can get off. What disaster! Now the "I'm with stupid"-joke can't succeed.
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#68163 - 07/01/12 12:51 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Then those who used the hieroglyph are kicked. His point came across, I only find little to no value. I might as well make a comment on the "I'm with stupid" shirts and say they are fake because the real ones have a different font.

I can continue to nag because the label on one says to wash at 60° and the other at 90° and the color can get off. What disaster! Now the "I'm with stupid"-joke can't succeed.

Every object has a purpose. I doubt anyone serious about his religion will use his religious symbol as a joke, it's not its purpose.
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#68164 - 07/01/12 01:12 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
To a degree it reminds me of some, probably urban legend, I heard many years ago about this fine damsel having bought, on one of her travels, some fancy looking pendant necklace inscribed with pretty oriental lettering only to discover that, after a lot of showing off and boasting, these symbols actually meant "prostitute first class". I think in the world of tattoos there are similar (urban) legends.

That's the problem of these days; hardly anyone verifies the accuracy of anything even while it is much easier to do than every before. Someone sees a Pentagram, someone else says that's the one Lavey used and they start using it too.

We see the same in the knowledge about all things satanic; what some say is often based upon what others said and you see information degenerate from correct information, to partially correct, to tidbits about everything.

It makes me wonder that if we'd slightly change something like the Nine Satanic Sins and then put these back out there; how long it would take before they'd be widely used.

D.

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#68165 - 07/01/12 01:24 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
You're overlooking something here, it's not so much the correct spelling that makes truthful. The incorrect spelling (even in the 50 other variations) does not matter. It is the image itself, the wholeness if you will. Don't take the symbolism too serious. It's just a dress up.

Why shouldn't a religious symbol not be joked with? Blasphemy (on all sides) is always a blast. Going against the current does not mean replacing it with another dressed in black.

It's nice to be accurate and precise and blablabla. But the misinformation of another can be a sign of inferiority. And I wouldn't like a world wherein everyone is helping each other to be equal.


Edited by Dimitri (07/01/12 01:50 PM)
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#68167 - 07/01/12 01:53 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
It's all very philosophical and true, what you say, but I'll say it again - I'm just pointing out the flaw for those who did not notice, not for those who do not care.
Do what you will, as long as you're aware of what you're doing, I'm just making sure more people are aware, I'm not saying "do that" or "don't do that", cause I really don't give a damn...
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#68183 - 07/02/12 02:16 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
I found it's unhealthy - preach or proclame right (genuine) and wrong (fake) Sigil of Baphomet, becaue it will do splits between Satanists.

Good example is recent events in Timbuktu (north part of Mali), where islam fundamentalists destroy haram (or forbidden in Islam) and mosques, great islamic shrines and cultural relicts. Just follow the links: here (in Latvian) and here (English).

Please, IcyClawz think carefully about right and wrong... genuine and false! We, Satanists don't think black and white like religionists. We are alive and see all colors.

Satanist from Latvia


Edited by Latvian (07/02/12 02:35 AM)
Edit Reason: English isn't my native language and I found mistakes
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#68184 - 07/02/12 03:07 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Latvian]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
For all I care, if B-Z-N-R-Tz means something to you, use it with good health. Since I speak Hebrew smoothly, I would laugh at it - because the letters mean nothing.
I rest my case.
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#68185 - 07/02/12 03:52 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
Thanks for Your opinion! I don't speak Hebrew and this is the reason, why I don't understand what is written...

But please read, what I wrote too! It's important to understand, that symbol is one thing and real satanic life style is much more important...

I spent my childhood under SU (Sovjet Union) and they had strifes about right socialistic or comunistic symbol... Now in my country religious had strifes about christian symbology and they make even wars... and not just about right and wrong symbol,... for example adventists claims to all christian denominations: You're wrong - You celebrate sunday, but real day is saturday or sabath.
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#68187 - 07/02/12 04:56 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
 Quote:
I'm just making sure more people are aware, I'm not saying "do that" or "don't do that", cause I really don't give a damn...

And where does this need come from?
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#68188 - 07/02/12 05:31 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
Maybe our new member of the 600 Club has strongly influenced by people, who are so radical. In Israel it is typical. Even in Jerusalem’s 4 old town’s part (Hebrew, Christian, Muslim and Armenian) inhabitants of each think, that they only have right revelations about truth… Sometimes it influences even freethinkers and Satanists. I don’t wonder about it!
In North Europe (Scandinavia and Baltic States) Satanists don’t have so many schisms, because we have good democracy… In my region most of Satanists don’t care so much about symbols and even opinions, even no one is bothered about devil worshipers, radical anti-Christians. Most of us think (especially in Latvia) that united Satanists have more power and influence as separated Satanists.

We can use so many different, sometimes stupid labels in Satanism because of different opinions and life styles…
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#68191 - 07/02/12 06:17 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Latvian]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
It is not if he is holding up the truth or even pointing out a falsity even creating an awareness. I'm mainly interested in his drive to burst in and almost immediatly point out possible mistakes based on things somewhere else he/she has seen BEFORE testing the waters a bit...

As from my part, I am always interested in what drives people. Thus the reason why I see Satanism as a more "metaphysical" drive or memeplex. And this person looked interesting... too bad he/she hasn't shown more skin to see and validate.


Edited by Dimitri (07/02/12 06:22 AM)
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#68195 - 07/02/12 07:38 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
Jason King Offline
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Latvian & Dimitri, I think you have both misunderstood IcyClawz' motivation in the OP. It seems that an escalation has ensued from his initial intent to get a piece of information out there. He wasn't preaching or being condescending. He was basically saying, "I read Hebrew, and this particular Baphomet is some garbage."

Having come across this issue before, I understood him immediately. Why be so defensive when all he was doing was providing genuine knowledge in a field that he has a degree of expertise in? Please, tell me you didn't get the wrong tattoo . . .

But seriously, you guys raise interesting points (esp. Dimitri) regarding meaning and who determines such. But these were not really germane to the OP, as said before. This is a needless conflict.

JK
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#68197 - 07/02/12 08:23 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Latvian Offline
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Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
...This is a needless conflict...
JK

You're right! In general there isn't conflict, there is great discussion. Of course - IcyClawz speaks Hebrew and had studied the topic, but we both speak about topic's possible effect, influence or other side...!

I wanted to point in my posts on the content of Satanism and not on right packaging and a bit share my point of view! There is even good thing - IcyClawz stands for his opinion and I think my and Dimitri look on the other side is quite interesting and useful!

Of course I don't want to put on me wrong tattoo (You're right again)!

I personally prefer knowledge and not ignorance, but maybe it's because of my 17 year teacher experience I always test and doubt everything and everyone!
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#68203 - 07/02/12 10:30 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
If I'd be following your word that would imply giving a nice nod, a pat on the back and keep up a false interest of something, and let's be honest here, which is trivial and limited to such a small audience I even doubt any regular here would have lifted an eyebrow except for a few petty remarks for the sake of it.

As you managed to describe in your own words what he did, a little call-out might be in its place. I don't see me nor you running around at a new place "forcing" (might be a bit too strong worded) a pamphlet with gentle words describing a possible made fault in strangers hands. I believe we both can come up with enough reasons why that would be a bad idea.

Yeah, he is a new member.. and maybe he'll stick around long enough. Doesn't mean I should refrain from a nice little welcome nibble. Needless conflict? That would fly for all conflicts yet they happen and do serve nice fruits from time to time.

FYI: I don't have tattoos. I prefer to be a blank slate on which scars, bruises and condition of the skin tell a story. The ink would only remember of trivial everyday stories.
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#68212 - 07/02/12 01:07 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Latvian]
IcyClawz Offline
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Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
 Originally Posted By: Latvian
...IcyClawz stands for his opinion and I think my and Dimitri look on the other side is quite interesting and useful!

Brother, the problem is that you both pointing out very interesting and useful look on the other side - of the wrong coin; "Barking up the wrong tree", as they say!
Radical? This has absolutely nothing related to this post; I like collecting many beautiful symbols related to Satanism, and I like them all. I'm not pointing out what is right or what is wrong, I'm only saying what Jason King said - ignorantly using a word that does not exist. Can it be a some kind of desperate attempt to reinvent the Hebrew language?
And "And where does this need come from?" - as Dimitri asked - the answer to that question is simple: I enjoy contributing, but only to worthy, from my point of view, communities. For me 'worthy' is 'intelligent'.
To demonstrate my intent further, here is a sigil I made for you.

This time, the letters read "אִדִיוֹט" = idiot in Hebrew. A "great" idea for a tattoo. Lets say I would NOT like to add this to my collection... Hope you get my point right.
_________________________
Just take me out of this damn fascist country... I want to live in Germany, badly.

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#68234 - 07/02/12 05:08 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I don't really see the cause for alarm. The Western tradition is full of mangled psuedo-Hebrew already (Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses, anyone?), but I think that most of us would agree that the magic works all the same anyway, since it's more about raising an emotional response with arcane-looking symbols that provide an aura of mystery.

LaVey knew this, and for this reason he didn't really care that he himself messed up the angelic syntax in the Enochian Keys, or didn't get his French/German exactly right in TSR. In fact, to this date, I don't think ANYBODY has every written a grammatically-perfect Missa Nigra (including Synagoga Satanae).

The anal perfectionists of us (myself included) will obviously make our own private rectifications, but there's really no point in getting so fumed over cosmetic errors that aren't that terribly important in the long run.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#68235 - 07/02/12 05:41 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: The Zebu]
Iskander Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/21/10
Posts: 70
Loc: Berlin, Germany
At least Die elektrischen Vorspiele have been corrected in the german edition of the Satanic Rituals.

I think it is obvious that LaVey and Cradle of Filth followed the same principle: As long as it is stimulating - visual or as sound - it doesn`t matter if you have no clue what it really means. But as soon as a native speaker comes across, it gets ridiculous.

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#68247 - 07/03/12 04:23 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Iskander]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Iskander
...I think it is obvious that LaVey and Cradle of Filth followed the same principle: As long as it is stimulating - visual or as sound - it doesn`t matter if you have no clue what it really means. But as soon as a native speaker comes across, it gets ridiculous...
I find analogy with situation, when East-Europe and Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia) were under iron curtain...

I remember my childhood, when someone get something from west side. For example - tempting clothes, shoes and other alluring things like underwear, cosmetic, alcohol, electronical watches even Coca-Cola, from other side of curtain, especially from US, UK, Japan, West-Germany and France had magical seduction and highest point of value for youth.

Before Gorbatshow’s perestroika and glasnost, many people spent 1/2 and sometimes even all month salary or more to buy Jeans or 1/4 salary to buy T-shirt and sometimes more. Quite often there was written 'fuck me, I'm slut, I'm bitch, stupid ass etc...', but people didn't understand - it was so stimulating and everybody with such T-shirt or Jeans were first boy/girl in the town... Even when someone found out, what does it mean - they continue to wear and be proud. It had the same magical status... Educators, soviet propaganda men and women, communist activists, socialistic parties speakers, pioneers group leaders wanted to educate youth and even older people, who wear it and told about true meaning- but nobody hear these smart ones...

Of course this time is past, but the principle works today too! \:\) We are Satanists and many people speak a lot , they have so many explanations, what does Satanism, Occult, LHP mean..., even I hear a lot ‘right’ and ‘genuine’ explanations and they found me 'spellbound by Devil', but I continue walk on my dark path – I’m proud to be Satanist and I’m happy to be on LHP.
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In Sorte Diaboli

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#68551 - 07/08/12 04:34 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Latvian]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
I created the Azazel Baphomet you see on Ebay..... why you might ask? You may not ask but if you do...... it was to have something a little different really..... The CoS have a page on their site with variations of the Baphomet design created by members. There own design is merely a variation with the words Lilith and Samael removed. I used the Oswald Wirth's goat head to have some classic occult character to the look of the design also. In any case the Azazel baphomet is not associated with a church of temple. I like the idea of it being associated with independent Satanism..... use it as you so wish..... use it in your rituals.... use it in your own church or group..... throw it over the fence and hit an annoying neighbour in the head with it for all I care...... yes use it to smite annoying people..... I like that idea! But there is no copyright on it ok and nor will there ever be..... Zakary has spoken..... By the way be careful throwing them at people as the new design I made is about three times as thick as ones I made in the past so they will put a dent in someones skull..... only really annoying neigbbours and muggers ok.... Zakary out..
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#68552 - 07/08/12 05:07 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
As long as everyone's getting all worked up about the poor old Baphomet, why not bite the bullet, get rid of the Hebrew-backwards-which-no-one-can-read "Leviathan" (which means "whale") and replace it with S-A-T-A-N, suchlike:



Or does that make too much sense?
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68567 - 07/09/12 02:15 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
Now that is way way to...... unmysterious for me.....lol! If people would like a simple Satan Baphomet I could do one? I'll throw some ideas around... Thanks for the inspiration Doc.
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#68582 - 07/09/12 08:37 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
Dr. Mike,

surely you're making fun here, but hey, its all good.

And no, I didn't call you Shirley.

Obviously, as you well know, symbolism must contain familiar elements, mysterious elements, and a mythic center.

Whether I like or not, LaVey's "leviathan" Baphomet did this. The other one (OP) failed in that it did not contain mysterious elements. Instead, it contained meaningless elements. And your proposal fails because it has reduced the mysterious to the profane.

But hey, I understand exactly the point your making here vis a vis Satanism. It's actually the same point I've made on occasion. It has lost the myth. Lost the meaning of its very name.

JK <3 M

Morgan, for you
_________________________



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#68591 - 07/09/12 11:00 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
IcyClawz Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/19/12
Posts: 25
Loc: Israel
Some people don't understand that this post had nothing to do with "design" or "alternative" letters around the Baphomet. I only pointed out here that the letters meant nothing. I have no problem with meaningful symbols, but I do have a problem with symbols that represent arbitrary nonsense, so to speak.
_________________________
Just take me out of this damn fascist country... I want to live in Germany, badly.

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#68592 - 07/09/12 11:21 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I agree absolutely with what IcyClawz asserts. I remember a hairdresser's opening in my home town in the 70's. The owner gave the salon a French name to be "classy" (ahem) and thought the sign board with look more "authentic" if there were a few accents incorporated into it. When I pointed out that this would a) be inaccurate and b) change the pronunciation to something they almost definitely wouldn't like I was told off for being so fussy.

"There" and "their" are not the same words, do not have the same meaning and are inappropriate to use as if they were. The same applies to the correct spelling of "Baphomet", "Leviathan" and, indeed, anything else whether it be in English or Hebrew.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#68593 - 07/09/12 11:23 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3147
Boohoo I think the people don't understand me. Ready to stop crying already?

"The letters meant nothing" well that's great, what's your beef with people who do use them? Give them more credibility by pointing them out a sigil with meaningful symbols?

Get over it.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#68595 - 07/09/12 12:48 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
Symbolism must contain familiar elements, mysterious elements, and a mythic center.

Whether I like or not, LaVey's "leviathan" Baphomet did this ... your proposal fails because it has reduced the mysterious to the profane.

The Temple of Set got rid of the Hebrew junk in 1975; the mystery continues in the secrets of the Pentagram (Appendix #6 of The Temple of Set). None of this was ever examined during the Church of Satan era; the Baphomet was just taken for granted.

Yes, any stage magician knows you can use nonsense to befuddle the Great Unwashed. And if that's what you're content to reduce the Baphomet to, that's your prerogative.

But an initiatory magical symbol can, and I think should, contain and radiate perfect significance and power to those who correctly apprehend it. See, for example, my discussion of the Rose Cross in My Rosicrucian [Non]Adventure.

Humans being humans, the AMORC will doubtless waltz right on using their current emblem, and Satanists will contentedly wear a "whale" around their necks.

This interesting primate phenomenon, as R.A. Wilson might say, isn't limited to the "occult". The Catholic Church had the bright idea of changing its masses from Latin to the local language so that everyone could actually understand what was being said, and congregations were outraged. When I became a Special Forces officer, I mentioned to one general that its famous motto "De Oppresso Liber" does not actually translate into "to liberate the oppressed", but is closer, if still garbled, to "concerning stamping on a book". Got my ass handed to me on a plate, and we're still stomping books today.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68597 - 07/09/12 01:10 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Satanists will contentedly wear a "whale" around their necks.


I wear nothing around my neck. Except, of course, the occasional rosary. Besides, a good case can be made that Job's Leviathan was actually a crocodile (q.v. Job 41:14-15). Who really cares, though? I don't use the "Baphomet" at all, preferring, as I do, my own postmodern Pentagram. Just like you, pushing it forward.

JK <3 M

Morgan, 4 U
_________________________



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#68602 - 07/09/12 02:31 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Interesting summary here. Amusing the amount of wackiness from Googling "Leviathan"; I rather like his moving to Scotland and becoming the Loch Ness Monster.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68614 - 07/09/12 08:40 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 863
Loc: Nashville
I think the inverted star inside a circle is plenty interesting enough without the surrounding gobbledygook. Actually, the goat's head also does little for me. Too obvious - "Here, let me SHOW you what all the hubbub is about."

I like that the ToS reduced the Sigil to its most basic parts - circle, inverted star. But unlike ToS's Pentagram, I prefer that the points touch the circle.

I understand that according to the ToS, the points not touching is significant because it symbolizes the idea of the subjective and objective fields being separate. But I speak here not as a philosopher but simply as an observer. Aesthetically speaking, I think the points-touching Pentagram has a more hypnotic effect and is more visually appealing.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#68621 - 07/10/12 01:25 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: William Wright]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I used to hate the goat's head pentacle but it's really grown on me in the past year or so. Unadorned pentagrams are great too-- I just like that you can have so much variety on a simple shape with so many different shades of meaning.

Here's a version I drew a couple weeks ago for my personal use, based off of De Guaita's famous illustration in La Clef de la Magie Noire:

_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#68622 - 07/10/12 01:56 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
I didn't keep a photo or copy of it, and it was unfortunately destroyed by dry ice fog during the filming of Asylum of Satan [hence was not seen in that film], but I did a sort of 3-D Baph in which the goat's horns came out and curled around the two upright points, and his nose projected over the horizontal crossbar. His ears still fit, and his chin and beard still fit too. I also eliminated the outer circle, so that the five Hebrew letters just floated in space out there. Did the whole thing in UV-paint on black cardstock, so that when UV light hit it, it really jumped out at you. I also eliminated the goat's eyeballs, giving him glowing triangular "sockets" rather like you see in Batman's mask. As with my previous Baph, pictured in CoS, SuperBaph also had somewhat batwing-like ears and a more simple, sculptured snout modeled from my Irish Setter Brandy. The standard Baph nose artwork always bothered me somehow.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68629 - 07/10/12 05:08 AM 3-D Baph [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Prion Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 26
Dr Aquino,

Your mission - should you choose to accept it - is to recreate that "3-D Baph" in all its original glory. Do it for Set. \:D

While many would appreciate a physical recreation of your 3-dimensional take on the Sigil of Baphomet (particularly with your fame in mind), a computerized 3D model based on such a design would also be pretty impressive.

Especially in an age when we have 3D printers. The possibilities are endless...


Prion

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#68657 - 07/10/12 02:59 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Dimitri]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
...Do your pathworking. I'll be keeping myself busy with supporting/indulging/exploring/working with/in/on Satanism.
It inspires even me! Thanks, Dimitri!

I think the real power of the Community of Satanism is strong individuals. Strong and smart individuals make strong pack and no one can be strong or perfect in all sciences, subjects or know all..., but we have to develop best skills and especially, where we have talents or subjects which are related with our practical life or sometimes just interest us as individuals…
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#68658 - 07/10/12 03:17 PM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Prion]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Prion
Your mission - should you choose to accept it - is to recreate that "3-D Baph" in all its original glory

Well, Brandy's no longer around to model, but I may play around with it.

I should mention that when Anton saw SuperBaph, he remarked that it looked like something that a Marvel Comics superhero would wear as his chest emblem.

As Mr. King reminds us, the "Gothic mysterioso" of the original Baph is part of its punch, even if it's technically kooky.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68678 - 07/11/12 02:15 AM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Prion Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 26
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
As Mr. King reminds us, the "Gothic mysterioso" of the original Baph is part of its punch, even if it's technically kooky.

Speaking of which, Dr Aquino, I noticed you chose a minimalist Pentagram as the emblem of the Temple of Set, kind of a "Baph lite", if you will:



Given the allure of the original Baph, can you explain what were the reasons (aesthetic, philosophical, or otherwise) for adopting a minimalist Pentagram for the ToS? (I assume the above choice of logo was your doing.)

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#68710 - 07/11/12 12:34 PM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Prion]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Prion
[quote=Michael A.Aquino]Can you explain what were the reasons (aesthetic, philosophical, or otherwise) for adopting a minimalist Pentagram for the ToS?

The short answer is Set told us to in the Book of Coming Forth by Night. Cf. The Temple of Set Appendix #2. In subsequent years we figured out why (Appendix #6).

As a point of historical interest: In the original Church of Satan, during years 1966-71, the medallion of the IV° was a white Pentagram against a black circular background. The V° added a red lightning bolt down through the Pentagram. [You can see Anton wearing this in early photos, before he switched to the silver metal pendant.] The Baphomet was worn by degrees I°-III° (red/white/black respectively).

In 1972 I suggested that we used the Baphomet completely, and Anton approved that. Blue was added for IV° and purple for V° [though Anton continued to prefer his pendant].

After 1975 the Temple of Set retained this color-code, except that we reversed the I° & II°. When we eventually added the VI°, it got a gold background. All medallions have silver pentagrams, except that of Honorary Setian, which has a gold Pentagram against green.

After 1975 Anton dropped the color-code; anyone could buy and wear a Baphomet of any color [including new ones such as baby blue and pink].
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68713 - 07/11/12 01:33 PM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
The meaning of this symbolism was explained quite well by Dr. Flowers in chapter 10 of his essential Lords of the Left Hand Path, q.v. p. 230. And you are there referred to Dr. Aquino's own Crystal Tablet, namely Appendix 1.

Just sayin'

JK <3 M

p.s. in re: Prion, not Dr. Mike, sorry.


Edited by Jason King (07/11/12 01:35 PM)
Edit Reason: added a p.s.
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#68728 - 07/12/12 05:27 AM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Prion Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 26
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
The short answer is Set told us to in the Book of Coming Forth by Night.

I'm curious, good Doctor. Do you mean that in a completely literal fashion? Or are there various layers of esoteric meaning behind such a statement?

Since I do find it difficult to imagine a metaphysical principle having opinions - I've long considered those a product of human cognition. Then again, mythological imagery can be one means to explore the connection between the psyche and metaphysical principles - but surely only a fundamentalist would simplistically take myth for straightforward fact.

(Not wanting to veer too far off the topic of this thread.)

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#68731 - 07/12/12 07:04 AM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Prion]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
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Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
Prion, Dr. Mike was referring to this:

 Originally Posted By: Set
With the years my Pentagram was corrupted, yet time has not the power to destroy it.

Its position was restored by the Church of Satan, but its essence was dimmed with a Moorish name, and the perverse letters of the Hebrews, and the goat of decadent Khar.


To the latter point, I believe the reply would be that GBM workings occur in a type of space beyond the physical and hence categories such as "opinions" and "words" are just the interpretive outline placed on such vergences by the human mind. Translating the ineffable, so to speak.

Does this mean I believe any of this? No. But when exchanging ideas, it's always best to understand your opponent's position as they understand it, and in the best possible such light. Then, and only then, can you rejoin with force.

Just sayin'

JK <3 M


Edited by Jason King (07/12/12 07:06 AM)
Edit Reason: added an apostrophe and an "s"
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#68740 - 07/12/12 11:38 AM Re: 3-D Baph [Re: Jason King]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
CoS and other genuine versions are lovely, but I am north man and Baltic Satanist from LV ane a bit more than 20 years for rituals use my own pentagrqmm with words in my native language!
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In Sorte Diaboli

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#68741 - 07/12/12 12:31 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: IcyClawz]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
O.K., so Jason doesn't want S-A-T-A-N in the English alphabet 'cause it isn't spooky enough. So how about we do it in Marabic:

_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68742 - 07/12/12 12:50 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
No. I've already said that I use my own postmodern Pentagram. click here


JK


Edited by Jason King (07/12/12 12:53 PM)
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#68776 - 07/12/12 07:04 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
Thanks for Marabic - I even didn't know about existence of Marabic! Quite interesting! I'm going to find out a bit more... http://www.freewebs.com/forbiddeneye/infochamber.htm
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#68821 - 07/12/12 11:59 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Latvian]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Latvian
Thanks for Marabic - I even didn't know about existence of Marabic!

Secret documents emailed to you ... and here's the Temple. When the video gets to the statue of Mara, shut your eyes instantly or you'll risk your life for the rest of the film!
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68825 - 07/13/12 12:58 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
Great video! I changed my email's box security settings and You could try to resend to me these secret documents again!
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#68859 - 07/13/12 11:48 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Secret documents emailed to you ...


Call it an itch, but I just don't think too much is "secret" with regard to the Temple of Set. What's the highest? Onyx? I've got it. Torrents rule. But hey, if someone cares enough . . .

JK
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#68867 - 07/13/12 03:08 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Secret documents emailed to you ...

Call it an itch, but I just don't think too much is "secret" with regard to the Temple of Set. What's the highest? Onyx? I've got it. Torrents rule. But hey, if someone cares enough . . .

No, these are much scarier and more secret: the hidden correspondence fragments and decipher'g of ye Nameless Glyphs in ye Dark Tunnels of ye Temple of ye Forbidden Eye. Copies just emailed to you too. The 600C will probably never hear from you or Latvian alive again ...

These were tweaked some time ago by me from original Disney sources, for a reunion of PSYOP veterans who dared profane the Temple. Taro Katagiri was the CO of the 4th PSYOP Group in Vietnam when I was there, Ham Salley a good friend from MACV-SOG, and Edward Lansdale is one of our legendary superspooks, etc.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#68892 - 07/14/12 07:52 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
Got it. Creative fiction within the Indiana Jones universe. I already knew your "Marabic" was invented, but didn't really give a shit. It fooled at least one person on thread, which is all that can be asked ;\) . Anywho, thanks for the share. I'm also a fan of mythology, and like you, a big SW buff. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how Lucas chose to tell the prequel story (not necessarily the films per se) and also on The Matrix trilogy. We can start a new thread if it would be off topic here . . .

JK <3 M
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#68912 - 07/14/12 01:47 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
Anywho, thanks for the share. I'm also a fan of mythology, and like you, a big SW buff. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how Lucas chose to tell the prequel story (not necessarily the films per se) and also on The Matrix trilogy. We can start a new thread if it would be off topic here . . .

Over to the TV/Film Area ...
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Michael A. Aquino

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#69389 - 07/24/12 08:55 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: The Zebu]
Doctor Demon Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/09/12
Posts: 14
Loc: Washington, DC
 Quote:
Here's a version I drew a couple weeks ago for my personal use, based off of De Guaita's famous illustration in La Clef de la Magie Noire


My hat is off to the rare Satanist who has bothered to do enough study to note the role Stanislas De Guaita played in the evolution of the Baphomet sigil. Nice to see.

As you may know, that illustration was most likely done for De Guaita by his young colleague, Oswald Wirth. Wirth later produced his own books and included a much more polished up Baphomet in his 1931 book on Freemasonry titled Le Compagnon.

For those interested in "alternative" versions of the Sigil of Baphomet, you might like this very cool recreation of the Oswald Wirth version of the Sigil as both an art print and a t-shirt.



It is available online through Rabid Crow Arts and Graphics which carries a number of unique Satanic images as either art prints or tshirts and stuff.


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#69420 - 07/25/12 10:48 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Doctor Demon]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
As you may know, that illustration was most likely done for De Guaita by his young colleague, Oswald Wirth. Wirth later produced his own books and included a much more polished up Baphomet in his 1931 book on Freemasonry titled Le Compagnon.


I never thought of the possibility that Wirth was the artist, but now that I look at it closely, the book's other illustrations do remind me of his tarot trumps.

You can actually find pdfs of his "Le Serpent de la Genese" on Google... I downloaded a complete compilation (a hefty 1400 pages) some months ago, but can't seem to find it now for the life of me. Those interested can find individual titles here.
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«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#69426 - 07/25/12 12:24 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: The Zebu]
Daafje666 Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/08/09
Posts: 73
Loc: The Netherlands
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu

You can actually find pdfs of his "Le Serpent de la Genese" on Google... I downloaded a complete compilation (a hefty 1400 pages) some months ago, but can't seem to find it now for the life of me.


I've come across a 852 page pdf of "Le Serpent de la Genese - Clef de la magie noire" some time ago but it's in french.
I found it's readable with an online translator and some french speaking friends ;\)

If anyone wants this hit me a pm, or did you mean the english version Zebu?
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That's why.

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#94198 - 11/12/14 04:14 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Daafje666]
VenusSatanas Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 16
Ok did you all notice that the baphomet on the top of the forum page is different than the one that is claimed to be owned by the CoS? Correct me if i am wrong, just trying to understand whats going on here.
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Spiritual Satanist BlogI Am I Will I Create!

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#94199 - 11/12/14 05:00 PM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: VenusSatanas]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Actually the Baphomet on top of the forum page is identical in rendition (right down to resolution) to the CoS Baphomet, which can be found on their website header and the cover of the Satanic Bible. It's the same drawing, just with different photoshop filters.



A quick rundown so that this is more clear:

The Bessy version (the one used on "Pictorial History of Magic and the Supernatural, and later blown up by LaVey for his fireplace altar) is distinctly different, being much cruder in design since it was made as a die for foil stamping:



The 'mother drawing' of De Guaita is a much lighter engraving done with fine lines, showing more symmetry and details such as hair that were not included in later redraws.

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«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#94217 - 11/14/14 09:57 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: The Zebu]
Megatron Offline
active member


Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: VenusSatanas
Correct me if i am wrong, just trying to understand whats going on here.


 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Actually the Baphomet on top of the forum page is identical in rendition (right down to resolution) to the CoS Baphomet, which can be found on their website header and the cover of the Satanic Bible. It's the same drawing, just with different photoshop filters.



A quick rundown so that this is more clear:

The Bessy version (the one used on "Pictorial History of Magic and the Supernatural, and later blown up by LaVey for his fireplace altar) is distinctly different, being much cruder in design since it was made as a die for foil stamping:



The 'mother drawing' of De Guaita is a much lighter engraving done with fine lines, showing more symmetry and details such as hair that were not included in later redraws.





OOPS, looks like you're still the Forrest Gump of Satanism. So, how's that been working out for you lately? I'm just curious.

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You can't beat me, I'm a fucking Transformer (TM), dude.

Oh, and I spell everything right.

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#94220 - 11/14/14 10:23 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Megatron]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
I'll play devil's advocate here, maybe she's referring to this:

 Quote:
The Church of Satan did file for (1981) and then received (1983) a trademark which protects the use of the Sigil of Baphomet with the words “Church of Satan.” The Church of Satan therefore has the legal right to place the ® symbol meaning “registered trademark” next to this combination of symbol and words. This trademark also prohibits anyone from using something similar in combination of name and symbol, which could constitute an illegal dilution or blurring of the trademark.


Current trademark laws are now in flux regarding this issue of trademark blurring—the use of marks similar to existing trademarks—but they are moving in the direction of favoring the forbidding of marks that could be considered misleading in any way, shape, or form.


Source
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#94226 - 11/14/14 11:09 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: SIN3]
Megatron Offline
active member


Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 859
Loc: fuckit, some kid cracked my co...
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
I'll play devil's advocate here,


That's when you're at your best. However, this is a losing argument, and you know it.

Informative? Yes. Winning (with the Charlie Sheen Penguin of Approval)? Not quite.
_________________________
You can't beat me, I'm a fucking Transformer (TM), dude.

Oh, and I spell everything right.

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#94229 - 11/14/14 11:53 AM Re: A fake Sigil of Baphomet is being used widely! [Re: Megatron]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6847
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
this is a losing argument, and you know it.


Maybe. Venus is actually a pretty decent Troll if you give a girl a chance.

\:\)

Finally got around to watching YOUR VIDEO.

Abracadabra! You're promoting her. She had plenty of subscribers and 'fans' before the pole-dancing videos. She found a niche in terms of branding. Who else was using Spiritual Satanism? Dark Paganism?

Maybe some of these criticisms over the years have forced her to up her game or stand with greater conviction by her ideas.

She bumped the topic dude, do the math.


Edited by SIN3 (11/14/14 12:21 PM)
_________________________
SINJONES.com

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#112056 - 03/29/17 08:31 PM Re: Fun Idea [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
LoneWolf78 Offline
member


Registered: 05/21/14
Posts: 419
 Quote:
As long as everyone's getting all worked up about the poor old Baphomet, why not bite the bullet, get rid of the Hebrew-backwards-which-no-one-can-read "Leviathan" (which means "whale") and replace it with S-A-T-A-N, suchlike:


I decided to have fun with your blank image:



And created my own color scheme hence my avatar.

Now, tell me, will someone sue you or I because you tweaked an image that isn't copyrighted or me because I added my own color scheme to your tweaked and un-copyrighted image?

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