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#69075 - 07/17/12 11:30 AM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1835
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
I got this which seems to argue to your point, but would need to see the original screenplay to confirm it one way or the other. Again, not saying you're wrong, Dr. Mike.

The Wiki account is accurate; I of course saw the original release in the theater, and there was no "Episode" whatever, nor of course the dorky retitle "A New Hope" (later also added to make "Star Wars" a series- rather than an individual-film title).

Don't miss the Mad parodies which were hilarious and unmerciful from the get-go.

Then of course there was all the X-rated innuendo:

 Quote:
Top Ten Sexually Tilted Lines in "Star Wars (A New Hope)"
1. "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid."
2. "Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!"
3. "Look at the size of that thing!"
4. "Sorry about the mess..."
5. "You came in that thing? You're braver than I thought."
6. "Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?"
7. "You've got something jammed in here real good."
8. "Put that thing away before you get us all killed!"
9. "Luke, at that speed do you think you'll be able to pull out in time?"
10. "Get in there you big furry oaf, I don't care *what* you smell!"

Top Ten Sexually Tilted Lines in "The Empire Strikes Back"
1. "And I thought they smelled bad...on the *outside*!"
2. "Possible he came in through the south entrance."
3. "I must've hit it pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that, huh kid?"
4. "Hurry up, golden-rod..."
5. "That's okay, I'd like to keep it on manual control for a while."
6. "But now we must eat. Come, good food, come ..."
7. "Control, control! You must learn control!"
8. "There's an awful lot of moisture in here."
9. "Size matters not. Judge me by my size, do you?"
10. "I thought that hairy beast would be the end of me!"

Top Ten Sexually Tilted Lines in "Return of the Jedi"
1. "Rise, my friend."
2. "Open the back door!"
3. "Hey, point that thing somewhere else!"
4. "It's just a dead animal..."
5. "Not bad for a little furball."
6. "How can they be jamming us if they don't know we're coming?"
7. "Come here, I won't hurt you. You want something to eat?"
8. "Keep on that one, I'll take these two"
9. "I want you to take her. I mean it, take her!"
10. "I don't think the Empire had wookies in mind when they designed her, Chewie."
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Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3]

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#69077 - 07/17/12 11:36 AM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
Prion Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 26
Speaking of Star Wars, I found this a pretty hilarious attempt at co-opting the franchise for Christian evangelism.

"Your Light Saber is the “two-edged sword” of the Word of God." \:D


I guess its symbolism can be utilised by various ideologies. M.A.A.'s was quite unique though! Setian or Sith?

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#69079 - 07/17/12 11:51 AM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
Deep Time Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 54
Flash Gordon serial

Since George Lucas was influenced by matinee serials, which had episode titles like The Planet Of Peril and The Tunnel Of Terror, it would make sense that he'd use a snappy subtitle like A New Hope(!) from the beginning.

A scene part way through a story in which the good guy meets the bad guy for the first time is an important part of many adventure films. In the case of The Empire Strikes Back, Luke confronts his father. Since this battle holds such weight, it makes sense that Lucas envisioned it from the beginning but had to leave it for later due to time restraints.


Edited by Deep Time (07/17/12 11:53 AM)
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#69090 - 07/17/12 01:39 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Deep Time]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1835
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Deep Time
Since George Lucas was influenced by matinee serials, which had episode titles like The Planet Of Peril and The Tunnel Of Terror, it would make sense that he'd use a snappy subtitle like A New Hope(!) from the beginning.

He didn't.

 Quote:
A scene part way through a story in which the good guy meets the bad guy for the first time is an important part of many adventure films. In the case of The Empire Strikes Back, Luke confronts his father. Since this battle holds such weight, it makes sense that Lucas envisioned it from the beginning but had to leave it for later due to time restraints.

In the original Star Wars Darth Vader was not envisioned as Luke's father at all, nor Leia as his sister. Hence Ben Kenobi's famous [and subsequently inconvenient to the revisionism] line that "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father".

The original "romance" was intended between Luke & Leia, obviously. For whatever reason this got a Freudian revision in Empire, which may have resulted in part from Mark Hammill's looks after his tragic car accident (dealt with by the Hoth "surgery" at the beginning of Empire).

Hammill really hit his stride as the Joker in Batman: the Animated Series. Who woulda thought?
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Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3]

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#69125 - 07/18/12 06:20 AM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Deep Time Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 54
Mark Hammill almost never does Star Wars- related work any more, focussing more on things like voice acting for shitty games. He agreed to do this for Robot Chicken though.

Father/Son Chat





Edited by Deep Time (07/18/12 06:24 AM)
_________________________
http://hereistoday.com/

"All the witches had to show their respect for Satan by kissing his ass."


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#69127 - 07/18/12 08:59 AM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
In the original Star Wars Darth Vader was not envisioned as Luke's father at all, nor Leia as his sister. Hence Ben Kenobi's famous [and subsequently inconvenient to the revisionism] line that "Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father".

The original "romance" was intended between Luke & Leia, obviously. For whatever reason this got a Freudian revision in Empire, which may have resulted in part from Mark Hammill's looks after his tragic car accident (dealt with by the Hoth "surgery" at the beginning of Empire).


You're totally right here. Although, I doubt it was caused by Hamill's accident. The retconning in the SW universe is fascinating. As a modern mythos, it gives us clues to ancient mythological retcons as well. E.g. your favorite, Dr. Mike: the retconning of the Neter Set/Sutekh.

Anakin and DV were never intended to be the same person. "Darth" was never meant to be a title of Sith-lordery, it was actually a first name. The Sith were never intended to be the inverse of the Jedi. But yet, myths transform. And the I AM YOUR FATHER scene was epic in a way that was never matched mythically in the series.

Why? It gave new meaning and plotwise purpose to the story. This is why I also asked your opinion on The Matrix trilogy. Like SW, it was a single film that was developed into more. The first was standalone. Yet the expansion (in both cases) proved more mythologically complex, and hence delivered more epic meaning. And at the end of the day, the real purpose of myth is to develop the Hero, and relate him (her) to the common man. Not as an identity per se, but as a template (q.v. the development of the character "Heracles" in ancient Greece).

To your point on SW being superior to the other films, I would disagree. It is a quest story without a real payoff. What is being quested for? Luke? As The Hero? But he never really is. The penultimate scene (where Luke fires his guns to destroy the Death Star aided by the Force) just feels . . . well, penultimate. He never crossed sabers with Vader. And Vader lived.

It took ESB to deliver, IMO. And RotJ could have been great, but it was what is was. Could Lucas have kept his original vision and not made Luke into a monk-of-sorts? Sure. And I think you can see that regret overcompensated in the prequels. To a fault, even. He underplayed in the first trilogy and overplayed it in the second (prequel) trilogy.

JK
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#69129 - 07/18/12 12:16 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1835
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
To your point on SW being superior to the other films, I would disagree. It is a quest story without a real payoff. What is being quested for? Luke? As The Hero? But he never really is. The penultimate scene (where Luke fires his guns to destroy the Death Star aided by the Force) just feels . . . well, penultimate. He never crossed sabers with Vader. And Vader lived.

Well, this is why I also re-wrote the Star Wars events as part of The Dark Side. George Lucas danced around some interesting themes - initiation, political systems - without actually getting into them. Not surprising for a movie intended or 13-year-olds, of course. He "went into" these things in his se/prequels one way; The Dark Side did so in an entirely different way. The other difference is that he made $zillions; I made $0. ;\)

[Forry offered to pay me for the TDS extract he published in Famous Monsters; I of course said no. I had since heard that that issue #148 of FM brings ridiculous amounts on the secondary market [addendum: it's now down to $18 or so on eBay]; the entire TDS is free on my webpage, obviously.]
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3]

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#69131 - 07/18/12 12:35 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
Sometimes, Dr. Mike, $0 = a place in history. Just ask my favorite artist Vincent Van Gogh. Sometimes, one makes a bargain with the Devil. Sometimes, one trades pointless money for something else of lasting value. Just sayin'

Besides, we all die naked and alone. Even if we happen to have clothes on and are surrounded by loved ones.

JK
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#69132 - 07/18/12 12:45 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1835
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
Just ask my favorite artist Vincent Van Gogh.

To whose art General Tanz and I react about the same.
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Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3]

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#69134 - 07/18/12 12:59 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
Hmmmm, interesting. Of course Van Gogh was a schizophrenic. But madness is genius, Dr. Mike. And even though genius is contagious, madness is not. At least not that kind. People may be stupid, and easily fooled. But they all dream.

JK

p.s. I put a little something in that just for you.
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#69148 - 07/18/12 04:22 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Actually in regards to Van Gogh there may be another explanation for his so called madness.

Van Gogh used to use lead based paint and he used to lick the tip of his brushes to get a nice point.

The view, expressed by one of my lecturers at university years ago, was that Van Gogh suffered lead poisoning as a result of getting the paint in his mouth and this contributed to/caused his bizarre actions in Arles and then set up his later years in Saint-Remy and Auvers.

Anyway Van Gogh was one of my favourites and still is.

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#69154 - 07/18/12 07:45 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1835
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
While looking for the famous picture of VG as a Mouseketeer (wearing the MM hat with only one ear), I came across this remarkable page, which has nothing to do with this thread [except for a couple of amusing SW parodies] but is jaw-dropping where Mona Lisa is concerned.
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Michael A. Aquino

[On Ignore: Dan_Dread, 6Satan6Archist6, Caladrius, MindFux, SIN3]

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#69161 - 07/18/12 08:57 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
 Originally Posted By: Knievel74
Actually, the first three SW films were written as one film. When Lucas realized that the story was too big and no film studio would ever make it he cut the story down to focus on Luke's story and figured if the film did well he could probably make the other two. The destruction of the Death Star was going to be the climax of the original script. When he scaled the sript down he used it for the climax in Ep.IV.

Nope, later "revisionist" version. The original Star Wars was always intended as a stand-alone film, evidenced also by the original pre-movie Alan Dean Foster "George Lucas" novel.

I don't know [or particularly care] why LucasFilm has worked to hard to represent that the 6-movie series was always intended from the start. Actually at one point LF announced that there were going to be nine movies - with a sequel-trilogy to be made after the prequel-trilogy. Sometime during the prequel process, they scrapped the idea for Episodes 7-9. Perhaps everyone just got tired of it.


It's a myth that GL wrote the story for six films way back in the 70's. But to prove my point about the first three here's an interview with GL talking about having to cut down the story he wrote so he could make the first film and if it was successful, make the other two. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mztK3s63_OM

As far as the Alan Dean Foster novel. They're only made to promote an upcoming film. The book was written and published after the script for the first film was greenlit and put into production.
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#69164 - 07/18/12 09:20 PM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Jason King]
Knievel74 Offline
member


Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 135
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
No, not in the original theatrical release of Star Wars. The "Episode IV" in the name and scroll was added after the movie's success, including for later theatrical releases in those pre-VCR, much less DVD days.


Not saying you're wrong, but a link to something backing this up would be nice. As far as I knew, the roll was in the original theatrical release. Sure, the retconning wasn't. But I'm talkin' the roll here.

And no, I'm not talking DVD covers. Sure, the original film was JUST Star Wars. But the scroll including "Episode IV" was in that original. Am I wrong? Links would be super nice here.

JK


I have to agree with Aquino here. The title "Episode IV: A New Hope" wasn't in the original theatrical release. It was added later.

Here's an excerpt from IMDB:

"Upon its original release, the opening crawl did not include "Episode IV: A New Hope." According to Lucasfilm, this was added upon its re-release in 1981. The later print was the first one to be released on mass market video (an earlier Betamax release did not have the subtitle), and all video, laserdisc or DVD releases have featured the subtitles. The theatrical cut DVDs, released in September 2006, were the first time that the original opening crawl, without subtitle, has been released on home video".



Edited by Knievel74 (07/18/12 09:22 PM)
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"Man was meant to live, not just to exist". - Evel Knievel

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#69171 - 07/19/12 12:49 AM Re: LucasFilm [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
seekswisdom Offline
member


Registered: 01/04/12
Posts: 104
Loc: California,U.S.
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
While looking for the famous picture of VG as a Mouseketeer (wearing the MM hat with only one ear), I came across this remarkable page, which has nothing to do with this thread [except for a couple of amusing SW parodies] but is jaw-dropping where Mona Lisa is concerned.


Thank you, Dr Aquino for all of your insight. I found the Yoda Lisa quite histarical. \:D

I read most of your Dark side article and found it very fasinating in comparrison to the SW films. The Darkside was too much of a mystery in the films. The films almost seemed RHP, to me, because it was all about protecting the weak and not embracing a Jedis full potential: their power. They constanly had to fight their lust while the sith could embrace theirs. Now if they could make a Jedi who could use the Dark and Light side of the force they would be unstoppable.

I'll remeber your version of Star wars more than Lucas' version, even though He made Money ; You made a better version of it. Like Gunnery Seargent Donald from Full Metal Jacket.

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