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#7162 - 04/04/08 04:35 AM The Satanic Bible
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
OK. I'm taking advantage of the timezone I am in, to be the first to post in the Satanism 101 section.

The post I am going to start is one that I have been thinking about for a while now and think this is the perfect place to start it.

I would like to start a discussion, breaking down and discussing what we think of and maybe even extolling our favourite quotes, lines or parts of the book at the middle of modern Satanism itself.

What you like about it, what you hate about it. What you think is profound and what you think is just utter crap.

After all, EVERYONE that posts here should have read it and I for one am interested to see what people got out of it.

One of the things that I got out of it, that actually allowed me to change my thinking and improve my life was this thought/quote.

"The purpose of the ritual is to free the magician from thoughts that would consume him, were he to dwell upon them constantly."

Being an extremely emotional person, when I dwell on something, I loose sleep, appetite and focus on anything else. Reading this sentence allowed me to think about, how to shut down this compulsive and detremental behaviour.

The funniest part of that to me though, is that I have yet to need to actually ritualise this, as that breakthrough in thought, has been enough to snap me out of it in general when I start to feel overly intense emotional reactions from day to day occurances.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#7163 - 04/04/08 04:53 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Sinistar Offline
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Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
The Satanic Bible is a great choice to start this thread. I was initially against it because I felt that everyone should've at least read TSB before even entering here but I've since changed my stance on that. Why the Hell not, right?

No matter what sort of Satanist that one considers himself/herself, TSB is a good book as an introduction. Even if you don't believe in the writings, LaVey does a great job of helping "deprogram" from our mostly Christian upbringings.

As far as TSB goes, I thought that LaVey started to become a bit overbearing starting in the Book of Lucifer and "Satanic Sex" went on longer than it should have. Discussing sex should've been more than interesting, but it became too preachy in presentation. I believe that he was just trying to cover everything such as defining masochism, but I felt like he overdid it a bit. I found the rest of it very informative since it was my first non-fiction book dealing with Satanism. That's just my humble opinion.


Edited by Sinistar (04/04/08 04:58 AM)
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#7165 - 04/04/08 07:35 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Meq Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Good post.
I was considering making the first post here, but I'm glad to see this section off with a bang!

This prompted me to grab my Satanic Bible, so I'll be flipping through it to remind me of its strong and weak points:

Some favorite quotes:

"No hoary falsehood shall be a truth to me; no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen! I break away from all conventions that do not lead to my earthly success and happiness."
"He that is slow to believe anything and everything is of great understanding, for belief in one false principle is he beginning of all unwisdom."
(Nice bit of iconoclasm, though it doesn't exactly lend itself to belief in the occult aspects of TSB.)

"Praying for one's enemy is nothing more than bargain-basement anger, and of a decidedly shoddy and inferior quality!"
(Applies equally well to the Buddhist 'mettabhavana'. Why bullshit yourself that you care when you don't? Hypocritical self-deceit is the only outcome...)

I thought the section on 'Satanic Sex' was extemely insightful in places, especially considering it was written in the late '60s. Its criticism of the 'sexual revolution' (in which individuals who aren't keen on being promiscuous are seen as repressed or otherwise weird) is way ahead of its time.

The section on 'psychic vampires' is pretty useful - particularly its distinction between desperate love (which is selfish yet still give-and-take) and vampirism (pure parasitism).

And as for "Indulgence, not compulsion"... yes, a very wise idea indeed, but hardly a new concept. This idea is also central (albeit in a less overtly hedonistic sense) to Buddhism and Taoism, as well as classical Stoicism and Epicureanism.


Things not so good about TSB:
The occult dogma is likely to turn off many more rationally-minded readers (although there is also the option of ignoring this, or treating it as fiction, if faith is not on one's agenda).

The advice that "if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!" is also likely to have the OPPOSITE effect of 'self-preservation' if a more physically powerful (or heavily armed) adversary is involved.
If a scrawny nerd were pushed about by a coked-up Tae Kwon Do black belt looking for a fight, throwing a punch would most likely be an incredibly foolish thing to do.
Then again (by social Darwinist standards, at least), this may be good advice to give, if the desired result is to make stupidity painful... \:D

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#7168 - 04/04/08 08:35 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: Meq]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
 Quote:
The advice that "if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!" is also likely to have the OPPOSITE effect of 'self-preservation' if a more physically powerful (or heavily armed) adversary is involved.
If a scrawny nerd were pushed about by a coked-up Tae Kwon Do black belt looking for a fight, throwing a punch would most likely be an incredibly foolish thing to do.
Then again (by social Darwinist standards, at least), this may be good advice to give, if the desired result is to make stupidity painful...


Ah yes but what if said weakling decided to smash him another way, say with an assult charge or something that he can do with his brain rather than his brawn. I have never thought of that as a literal translation anyway. That actually goes for the whole might is right thing to me. Might isn't neccesarily physical strength, especailly now in the information age. Might can just be mental might.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#7219 - 04/04/08 11:39 PM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: ZephyrGirl]
reverand Offline
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Registered: 03/31/08
Posts: 39
Loc: London, Ontario Canada
"I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of you impotent, mad redeemer and write over his thorn torn brow: the TRUE prince of evil, King of slaves"

I'm quite aware that LaVey did not write this line but the power behind the statement is just awesome.
The Book of Lucifer in it's entirety didn't so much change my life as it reaffirmed the beliefs I had held dear all along.
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I never really hated the one TRUE god, but the god of the people I hated.

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#7456 - 04/10/08 08:13 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Simon Offline
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Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 78
I totaly agree, what you can't do with your muscles, do it with your brain. The whole mening isn't to make a physical reaction, but to repay the favour. I would say that a phsycological or economical attach would be more than enought to prove youself.
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#7988 - 04/19/08 07:26 PM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: Simon]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
TSB P-40 (Wanted God, Dead Or Alive):

""It is a popular misconception that the Satanist does not believe in God...

To the Satanist "God" - by whatever name he is called, or by no name at all - is seen as the balancing factor in nature, and not as being concerned with suffering. This powerful force which permeates and balances the universe...""

Master Mason Lecture (Freemasonry; Hieroglyphic Emblems):

""It is the inspiration of that great Divinity whom we adore, and bears the nearest resemblance or affinity to that Supreme Intelligence which pervades all nature,...""



Wikipedia on Deism:

""Deism is a religious philosophy and movement that derives the existence and nature of God from reason and personal experience. (The mention of God in this article is meant more as a Creator than as the Abrahamic God) This is in contrast to fideism which is found in many forms of Christianity.[1] Islamic and Judaic teachings hold that religion relies on revelation in sacred scriptures or the testimony of other people as well as reasoning.
Deists typically reject supernatural events (prophecy, miracles) and tend to assert that God does not intervene with the affairs of human life and the natural laws of the universe. What organized religions see as divine revelation and holy books, most deists see as interpretations made by other humans, rather than as authoritative sources. Deists believe that God's greatest gift to humanity is not religion, but the ability to reason.""

Kayla
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#7992 - 04/19/08 07:56 PM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
frank Offline
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Registered: 03/20/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Malta
Most Satanists do not accept Satan as
an anthropomorphic being with cloven
hooves,a barbed tail,
and horns
He merely represents a force of nature......
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#7993 - 04/19/08 09:38 PM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: frank]
PRO DOM Offline
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Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 21
 Originally Posted By: frank
Most Satanists do not accept Satan as
an anthropomorphic being with cloven
hooves,a barbed tail,
and horns
He merely represents a force of nature......


This is true. He is exceptionally attractive. He does not take on the form they say. I know this to be true.

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#7998 - 04/19/08 11:05 PM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: PRO DOM]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 268
Loc: New Mexico
I agree, he's definately the hottest guy around.... XD

Hmm, if it permeates nature, then I think I want to learn a little more about father nature and less about god....sounds like nature is more mysterious and less concerned with human affairs...I like to be free, if god wishes to act upon us, then let him become us...or are we already there? No, not yet...some of us, are.

I have never read the Satanic Bible cover-to-cover, but what i did read was simply a cheap rehash of expensive ideas, and Lavey was quite a character. He took a grand leap in unveiling it in such a manner, and I applaud him for it.

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#8005 - 04/20/08 01:24 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: 97and107]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: 97and107

Hmm, if it permeates nature, then I think I want to learn a little more about father nature


Its hard to learn about mother nature when we have our face buried in books, amongst other things *wink wink*; like religion, politics, other people's business, and the illusions and pageantry of everyday existence in this urban stage. Maybe if we quieted our minds, and focused our awareness and mindfulness on nature and its flow, you know.

I like the story of the Buddha, and how he found enlightenment.
He was born a prince of the Sakya Clan. When his mother was pregnant with him, an astrologist came to do his thing for the royal family. The astrologer said that the boy had two destinies - 1) that if he remained a prince, and inherited the throne, he would eventually rule the world; and two - if he saw the hardships of the world, he would run away and become a beggar.

His parents raised him within the walls of the royal palace. The king made sure that only beautiful young people were inside the walls; no elderly folks, no sick people; no nothing, just a pretend paradise. He married and had a son, and his parents thought for sure he was going to become King of the world.

Then one day a guard fell asleep somewhere, and an old man with a cane wondered in to look for the King to complain. The young Prince, having never seen anything like this old man thought he was a demon or something; curious, the prince went up to the old man and asked him what he had done to be cursed with such ugliness. The old man answered that it wasn't a curse, but that it was the fate of all men, to grow old and die...

The old man was killed; but the young Prince was already too curious to remain within the palace walls. One night he left his wife and son, and the throne behind, and climbed over the walls of his world and wondered outside.

Suddenly he saw reality for the first time - the peasants who toiled make the food that fed him, and the clothes that clothed him... the sick, and elderly, all the pain, and suffering.

So he began to wonder why all this was; and he went to ask the Brahmins about the mystery of life; but the answers did not satisfy him. He went from sect to sect, guru to guru, and was never satified. Defeated, he desided to leave for the forest to be alone to think on these things.

He sat beneath a Bo Tree, by a river to rest one day and stayed there to study nature. Then one day while he was looking at the river he saw it in a different way. He stepped inside it, and realized that the river was never the same river at any moment in time. That is sameness was an illusion. It was constantly in motion, ever changing... he sat back down to ponder on this seed thought. And after a long while became enlightened - Buddha.

After a while he had disciples, who sat around him to here him teach. One day 3 men came to ask him about the nature and reality of God.

The first came and asked the Buddha: "Teacher, does God exist?"
To which the Buddha replied: "Yes he does."

The second man came and asked: "Teacher, does God exist?"
And the Buddha said to him: "No, he doesn't."

The third man came and asked: "Teacher, does God exist?"
To which the Buddha answered with silence.

Now his disciples were confused and when the men left they asked him: "What are we to believe, if you gave three different men three different answers?"

The Buddha said to them: "Believe as you will, each according to their level of understanding. The first man believed in God, so I answered yes, to reaffirm his beliefs and state of understanding. The second man was an Atheist, so I answered no, to affirm his state of understanding. The third man did not need an answer because he had experience that which can only be experience and only profound silence can describe and affirm."

Kayla


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (04/20/08 01:28 AM)
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#8006 - 04/20/08 01:34 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Were these last four or five posts actually meant for the Men and Gods post. They appear to, to me and I just wondered.

They would at least be adding something to that discussion and I shall put a link between the two, for just this purpose.

Link to Gods and Men thread

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8013 - 04/20/08 06:29 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Meq Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC
He sat beneath a Bo Tree, by a river to rest one day and stayed there to study nature. Then one day while he was looking at the river he saw it in a different way. He stepped inside it, and realized that the river was never the same river at any moment in time. That is sameness was an illusion. It was constantly in motion, ever changing... he sat back down to ponder on this seed thought. And after a long while became enlightened - Buddha.


Perhaps Buddha was familar with Classical Greek and Hellenistic ideas, such as the following from Heraclitus (which became central to Stoic philosophy):
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
"We step and do not step into the same river; we are and are not."

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#8014 - 04/20/08 10:43 AM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: Meq]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: Mequa
 Originally Posted By: LUCIFERIFIC
He sat beneath a Bo Tree, by a river to rest one day and stayed there to study nature. Then one day while he was looking at the river he saw it in a different way. He stepped inside it, and realized that the river was never the same river at any moment in time. That is sameness was an illusion. It was constantly in motion, ever changing... he sat back down to ponder on this seed thought. And after a long while became enlightened - Buddha.


Perhaps Buddha was familar with Classical Greek and Hellenistic ideas, such as the following from Heraclitus (which became central to Stoic philosophy):
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
"We step and do not step into the same river; we are and are not."


I believe you are more than right here Mequa. There is another thing very Hellenistic about the Buddha - his entire life story:

Remember Plato's allegory of the Cave? How a tribe lived in a cave and every evening they would see shadow people dancing on the walls of the cave. Thinking they were god the cave people worshiped them. Until one day a young man wondered out of the cave and into the forest?

It seems as though the cave and the palace symbolize the same thing.

Personally I don't believe a Buddha ever existed. This Buddhism emerged like Satanism did within a dominating religion: Hinduism.

There are statutes of Shiva looking like the buddha with the knotted hair, orange robe, and in a lotus asana, which dates thousands of years before the emergence of Buddhism in India.

It seems to me that Buddhism was in the beginning a reactionary religion to Hinduism; which is why it was suppressed in India, and ultimately was chased out of it...

Another thing which add credibility to your hypothesis is that there once was a Mystery Religion in Greece centered around Dionysus, called the Dionysian Artificers. They wore Orange Robes. Dio - meaning GOD, and Nysus - was the name of a mountain... Shiva is said to be lord of Mount Nysa, whose followers also wore organe.

Kayla


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (04/20/08 11:36 AM)
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Lux Ex Tenebris
Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#8087 - 04/22/08 12:00 PM Re: The Satanic Bible [Re: PRO DOM]
Deathlehem Offline
lurker


Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 4
Loc: DFW Texas
 Originally Posted By: PRO DOM
 Originally Posted By: frank
Most Satanists do not accept Satan as
an anthropomorphic being with cloven
hooves,a barbed tail,
and horns
He merely represents a force of nature......


This is true. He is exceptionally attractive. He does not take on the form they say. I know this to be true.


Me I never say what I believe in is the truth, cause quite frankly, there is no proof. Sure I believe in god and Satan's existence, I am a mixed up Satanist which most Leveyan's loath (because I follow a lot of what Levay says as well as other type of Satanic religions and rules, even some of the Atheistic Satanic religions I follow some what), I am not strictly Levayan as a matter of fact, that probably is the least of my Satanic belief. But I understand why folks would claim what they believe is true even without physical proof.

The Satanist (I assumed this forum was for ALL Satanists not just Levayan, am I right or wrong?) that actually believes in a being Satan or Lucifer has no proof of his existence just as EVERY christian in the world has no proof of god's existence, yet they as do I believe in their existence. Why? Doesn't that make me stupid for believing in something with no proof much less worshiping it? I would say yes and no. Yes because of lack of proof but no because of faith in your belief. So just because I believe my Satanic faith is true does not make it so, but don't take this reply as a knock at what you say is "true". If it's true to you why not?

Basically, I feel everyone who is a Satanist regardless of what type of Satanist should be welcomed in most if not all Satanic communities. Even though I am hated by certain Levayans because they say their Satanism is the only true Satanism, for which I don't accept as truth, I still accept their rights to have that belief. I would like the same acceptance, but most of them are too stubborn (almost christian like) to let others have their own beliefs. It doesn't matter if we believe the same way or worship the same way, so long as we acknowledge the fact we are Satanists. Of course lots of folks will probably disagree and that is cool. I just hope folks can remain cool about it and not be jerks like on myspace where the aforementioned Levayans that hate me are.


Edited by Deathlehem (04/22/08 12:01 PM)

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