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#7372 - 04/07/08 04:15 AM nature or nuture
Ringmaster Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
I was having a dicussion with my NCO this morning at starbucks and we got to talking about the reasoning behind peoples behavior and weither or not it's from nature or the way they were nutured. My take on this is about 70% nuture and 30% nature. I say this because we got people who have shitty upbringing and end up growing up and doing nothing with their lives, but on the flip side there are people with the same type of upbringing and be a very sucessfull person. My guess is that it also depends on how the individual views things (glass half full/empty) what are your guys views on this topic?
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#7374 - 04/07/08 04:29 AM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Ringmaster]
Six String God Offline
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Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Michigan
nature can be a result of nurture, but a persons nature can change with time, experience and willpower, but if it works, people wont want or need to change this.
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#7378 - 04/07/08 05:56 AM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Ringmaster]
Sinistar Offline
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Registered: 10/07/07
Posts: 174
Loc: New York City
The Army is ironic at times. You're in Iraq, sipping a latte at Starbucks, having a friendly philosophical debate, but at the same time in the back of your head hoping that a mortar doesn't come close to you while you're doing all of this. No one ever said that a soldier couldn't multitask. I've also been pondering this oxymoron: Military Intelligence (No offense if you happen to be a spook, but the logistics for Iraqi Freedom left much to be desired). I apologize for digressing...

Modern/LaVeyan Satanists are also known to be Social Darwinists, so statistically they would say nature over nurture.

For me, I would have to with statistical evidence in this case and say that nurture definitely plays the larger role. I'd vary a little and say 60/40.
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#7385 - 04/07/08 10:53 AM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Six String God]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
When talking of nature vs. nurture, the nature is not the nature of an individual but rather the surrounding environmental factors.
Before nature can have effect, nurture has already set it's models upon the child. Of course they change as we grow and start experiencing for our selves, but I think the base values often stay about the same they were passed by the parents.

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#7832 - 04/16/08 07:24 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Ringmaster]
Succubus666 Offline
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Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I’m not sure where exactly the concept of “willpower” would fall in on the nature versus nurture debate, but it seems like an often overlooked aspect of the individual when people start looking for black and white answers or fixed percentages to explain why people do the things they do. In my personal opinion, nature and nurture are often reduced to white noise in the background. When it comes down to the moment of truth - the moment a person decides to do or not to do - it is ultimately a question of will. I am a person that believes in the sixth sense and that there are things in the universe and in this world that science has yet to invent tools with which to measure. The human will has its attachments to an energy field in the non-corporeal with an awareness that exceeds our five-sensory perceptions. Those who are more tapped into that aspect of themselves have the ability to supersede nature and nurture in many situations. And there are also those who are more tuned out, over-absorbed in mundane aspects of daily existence, in which case I believe the variations in the percentages of nature and nurture governing their actions on an individual basis are different for each person. I don’t think it would be possible for there to be a set rate which all of humanity follows.
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#7833 - 04/16/08 08:02 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Succubus666]
PRO DOM Offline
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Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 21
I will tell you from my experience it is like 90% nurture and 10% nature. However I was douced in my reality rarely comeing up for breath so perhaps I have an unusual case.
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#10184 - 07/12/08 02:21 AM Re: nature or nuture [Re: PRO DOM]
Salem Offline
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Registered: 06/21/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Canada
I think it can be hard to say, but I think that nurture is a very big part of it. I think the way you're treated generally ends up to be how you treat others, because it is what we learn. However, there are always exceptions.

I know I am not everyone, but in my experience, having been mistreated a lot, I still fight to be as nice as possible to people who have done nothing wrong to me. I don't think taking my anger out on everyone I run into is fair, and I try my best to still be kind. I don't know why, it is just what I believe. I try to treat everyone with kindness until they give me reason not to, following "treat others as they treat you". I don't know where this belief came from. It existed in me before I knew about Satanism and it definately didn't come from my parents.

That's just me, but in myself and what I see in others, it makes sense to me that nurture would conquer over nature because how we are treated (nurture) tends to make how we view the world, which decides how we act in it.

I think "nature" means the way we are, genetically, by nature of being born. Some people say traits can run in the family, but I think this has more to do with "nurture" and, how we are brought up. Our parents' traits can often become ours, because we view it in a good light from them, and/or have good experiences with it, thus making it our own.

It can be difficult to say what is nature, though, because nurture can't really be seperated. We can't not have an environment, there is always an influence.

I don't think we can be sure, but how we see the world is made by what helps us see it. We can make our opinions, but they are still formed from what is around us, thus being nurture.

How can we know for sure what is nature, what would be without any outside influences, while it is impossible to eliminate such influences?
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#10214 - 07/13/08 05:53 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Salem]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
'Nature' and 'nurture' aren't opposites poles on some sort of linear scale. It would be unwise to attempt to reduce the myriad influences on human behavior to a comination of two simple factors.

Stag

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#10528 - 08/07/08 01:27 AM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Stag]
jesusbeater Offline
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Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
Generally from a psychologists view point , most psychologists with any common sense now a days are interactionists and believe that humans are products of both.I have written various papers and essays on the subject and to be honest am very bored with it now.The arguments are like a dog chasing its own tail.
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#10544 - 08/07/08 04:30 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: jesusbeater]
coelentrate Offline
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Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
this argument is ancient and will go on forever. From a scientific standpoint, nature and nurture (or environment vs. genetics) will be eqully opposed for a very long time.

Most people who think about this question for a living now recognize that some scenarios are influenced mostly by nature. Some scenarious mostly by nurture. Some scenarios are both about equally. It's all context specific.

So far the only conclusion by multi-party consensus is that arguing with devotion to nature or nurture is foolish.

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#12249 - 10/05/08 09:27 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: coelentrate]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Hi,

I enjoyed reading this book.

A while I read it, if I remeber well it makes the point on what you can change (i.e. the aquired) and what you can't (i.e. the genetic).

Interresting reading !

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#12273 - 10/06/08 01:49 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: Ringmaster]
HALL-oween Offline
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Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 19
Loc: New York
Being a student of psychology I have to say that they both do have an effect, however it may be this- environment (nurture) has more of an impact earlier in life and genetics (nature) later in life. Also, the opposite may be true. If we look at the NY longitudinal study then nature is the largest factor. The findings of that study found that throughout someones life the basic temperament stays the same. Early in life one doesn't have much impact on their environment or where they are located, later in life one is very capable of changing their location. When one is young you have no choice on genetics, or later in life either.
You also have to take into account when this theory was proposed, before philosophy split into psychology. Psychology is more based on science than philosophy.
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#12526 - 10/11/08 08:35 PM Re: nature or nuture [Re: HALL-oween]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Nature vs Nurture?

It all depends on the specifics of which behavior you are talking about. Generalizations generally just lead in circles, or better yet, nowhere.
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