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#751 - 10/01/07 01:06 PM A Third Path
Old Spider Offline
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 12
I've seen it expressed that those who choose neither the left or right paths to an effect 'just exist'. Anyone can apply any number and form of categories to what they believe they are and do, but 'just existing' is something not limited to followers of the third path. Everyone and everything 'just exist'. For one reason or another they are and if you recurse far enough you'll be left with 'I don't know.'

As I'm entirely tired of the attempt I choose to allow others to decide what I am and what I do. Their perspectives aren't my own and my own perspective already offers enough trouble to keep me from stamping a label on myself. I appreciate all sides for better or worse, not just one or the other. I'm not gray, nor white, black, or any color, sound, or what have you. For the sake of my own will I do what I do and I am whatever that leads to.

Some have said I'm a Satanist. Currently my reply is, "You could say that." Labels :perceived statuses of being, are transient, lasting only as long as perspective allows one to recognize them. So: if you are a follower of truth; that is, you follow the truth as you see it to wherever it leads you, then why bother with a label?


Edited by Old Spider (10/01/07 01:07 PM)

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#752 - 10/01/07 02:33 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Old Spider]
Venger Satanis Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 11
so why have you given up on self-labels? why allow others to define yourself? true, people will define you in their own ways regardless of what you believe... but everyone should know where they stand.

if there are three paths: negative, positive, and neutral; then it sounds like you are going for neutral. you may be comfortable "just existing", yet i don't think that's going to get you anywhere. the positive, active, and dare i say Satanic approach is the positive path. the one that gets results. this is the Left Hand Path. the right hand path would be negative, allowing the universe (or worse - society) to decide stuff for you.

who cares what others think? start caring about what you think!


Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

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#756 - 10/01/07 03:12 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Venger Satanis]
birdstrike Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 59
Loc: Canada
Nobody is comfortable "just existing". It is much more comfortable for our feeble brains to latch onto the idea that we actually have some sort of say in our world. We pollute ourselves with news , politics, and ideas of right and wrong, when in actuality we have no control and our labels mean nothing. "Left handed", "right handed", good, evil, Satanist, christian, etc. are nothing more than inventions of a consciousness struggling to define itself through the only way it knows how; Comparison!

We know nothing of this life, our own consciousness or abilities, or for that matter if we even exist as we define existance. The only thing that is known for certain is that you (notice not pluralized) are aware of your own consciousness. All else is speculation.

I always liked the not exclusively satanic philosophy of the self god, for in truth we know of no other power in this existance but that of ourselves. I no longer call myself a satanist. Ironically this due to workings in magic assosciated with Satanism which showed me I do not know anything, and neither does anybody else.

In closing Labels to me are a bondage for the mind. It is when we can train our brains to think independant of comparison that; well I don't know what will happen. I just hope to find out one day.
_________________________
Isn't being a Satanist against the ideas of Satanism?

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#759 - 10/01/07 04:16 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: birdstrike]
Venger Satanis Offline
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Registered: 09/27/07
Posts: 11
 Quote:
Nobody is comfortable "just existing".


are you serious? just about every man, woman, and child alive is comfortable "just existing". taking off one's masks is probably the hardest thing for a human being to do...

i'm all for thinking outside the box; however, what you're proposing is a structureless, directionless floating in a sea of possibility. let us be careful we do not drown in our enthusiasm to live without bonds.

to some degree, labels are necessary; comparisons are necessary; definitions are necessary; boundaries are necessary. i don't want to be strangled by them either, but i don't want to throw all of these concepts out altogether. we need a certain amount of structure!

 Quote:

The only thing that is known for certain is that you (notice not pluralized) are aware of your own consciousness. All else is speculation.


actually, that's the only thing that we don't know. we are not aware of our own consciousness. rather, we daydream through life. we only believe that we have conscious self-awareness. if we did have it, then we would fully know ourselves, our place in this world, and eventually the secrets of the universe and beyond. but for now, let us admit (unfortunate as it is) that we are not conscious at all, but asleep.

Hail the new Satanic Aeon!


Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

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#769 - 10/01/07 08:37 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Venger Satanis]
Old Spider Offline
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 12
My experiences have shown a paradox. All things are both true and untrue. An illusion. One side of myself may show a person one thing while another person may see a different side :are these people correct or incorrect? And if they truly believe what they think of me, then who am I to decide which is true and which is false? This is why I let them label me as they see fit. If they believe I do certain things, then why should I bother refuting the issue?

It's a case of, "Well, these idiots have made their minds up. So be it. I don't know the full scope of the truth any more than they do." Am I to spend my life constantly correcting everyone else's point of view on myself, or rather should I let their opinions stand and myself move on to whatever it was I was doing? The problem is, whenever I look back at what I've said of myself, I find holes in my logic. I don't see the full picture, as I said, any more than they do and if I continue stating my case of myself then who is the bigger fool? If I just shut up and let them have their ways, then haven't I saved myself a lot of trouble?


Edited by Old Spider (10/01/07 08:38 PM)

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#776 - 10/02/07 12:03 AM Re: A Third Path [Re: Old Spider]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Well, as you know, man (as a former prey species) is hardwired to define things as good or bad, up or down, right or left.

In general, I think these sorts of definitions do serve to define people as people do tend to be 'one way' or the 'other.'

I am sure without much difficulty I could peg you as devote of the the LHP or a White Lighter in dark clothes - a 'black sheep' if you will.

I am sure that you have some strong conviction of some sort. What might it be? Do you possess any fundamental values?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#780 - 10/02/07 12:28 AM Re: A Third Path [Re: Fist]
ICouldBuyYouAll Offline
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 21
Loc: Expensive
It is clear that the problem here Spider is that you do not know yourself.

You are confused about who you are as a person, as a individual.

Until you figure that out I doubt you'll have much success in achieving whatever it is you are after.

And really you should have the attitude that you don't have to explain yourself to anybody.

And the only illusions are the ones that we create for ourselves.
_________________________
Point my finger at myself...I'm to blame. Point your finger at me...I'll break it.

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#796 - 10/02/07 09:56 AM Re: A Third Path [Re: ICouldBuyYouAll]
Old Spider Offline
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Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 12
A strong 'conviction' of some sort. Of course I do in both senses of the word: yes, I have a few beliefs of which I haven't a scrap of evidence to show anyone (sometimes myself), and yes, I've deemed quite a few people guilty in my 'court'. Yes, I'm as human as any other human on this planet.

And yes, I do know myself, but not in the sense of a... 'terrestrial' label. The local game as it may be is something I've always had a difficult time with; in other words, what I know myself as is a superset of what we know this local reality as. But that isn't what's normally considered as a sharply defined sense of self.

But locally. In this realm, here, now, with what's in front of my eyes, then.

I see a potential. I see myself in front and behind an infinite array of possibilities. I am doing anything I wish to do. And that's where labeling myself is getting in the way. My focus upon this localized universe isn't as sharp as it used to be. I suppose I could pick a label or two I can appreciate, then buttress those assumptions with my own definitions of what that is... but that seems more like aspiration than definition.

When one labels oneself one is supposedly speaking in the present-tense and that's where the flaw in logic occurs. The 'one' a person knows is the one known in the past :that's how we perceive the universe around us, isn't it? And if I were to label myself I wouldn't be describing how I am now, but perhaps lying to the audience outright or perhaps setting a goal for myself.

Or perhaps I'm missing a facet of lower magick on this one. Keeping in mind what I've said in the above paragraphs, if I were to take on a label or labels, buttress them with my own ideals of what that or those mean, would I also be committing myself to those things?

+++

As for the third path itself, what value is it to follow one extreme or the other? I understand there is on or off, but in the analog world there aren't such extremes. In the realm of infinity black and white are never as black or white as possible and that's excluding the infinite varieties in between. A coin is a coin. Give me a quarter and I'll show you the universe.

There are those which fervently choose one side or another, but what about choosing neither or all? With the incessantness some have that one thing is correct while another is incorrect (or good and bad), where is the place of the observer who chooses neither side or the master who chooses all sides?


Edited by Old Spider (10/02/07 09:58 AM)

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#797 - 10/02/07 11:06 AM Re: A Third Path [Re: Old Spider]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 268
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: Old Spider
I've seen it expressed that those who choose neither the left or right paths to an effect 'just exist'. Anyone can apply any number and form of categories to what they believe they are and do, but 'just existing' is something not limited to followers of the third path. Everyone and everything 'just exist'. For one reason or another they are and if you recurse far enough you'll be left with 'I don't know.'

As I'm entirely tired of the attempt I choose to allow others to decide what I am and what I do. Their perspectives aren't my own and my own perspective already offers enough trouble to keep me from stamping a label on myself. I appreciate all sides for better or worse, not just one or the other. I'm not gray, nor white, black, or any color, sound, or what have you. For the sake of my own will I do what I do and I am whatever that leads to.

Some have said I'm a Satanist. Currently my reply is, "You could say that." Labels :perceived statuses of being, are transient, lasting only as long as perspective allows one to recognize them. So: if you are a follower of truth; that is, you follow the truth as you see it to wherever it leads you, then why bother with a label?


I take it one step further...I don't acknowledge the importance of right and left hand path labels. They are too limited and cause stagnation. Indeed, followers of truth. The eternal absolute truth is what we all seek, eventually, one tiny step at a time. Even meeting death is a commitment to that purpose.

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#2844 - 12/21/07 11:22 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: 97and107]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
Ah…. Old Spider, you touch upon a reality that not many can appreciate now days!
The ‘left hand path’ has always been ‘the third’ path so to speak.
We are amongst those who traverse the many hyperealities of existence.
Of these paths or realties there is the mundane (superficial discourse between other humans, plants and animals), then there is the ‘right hand path’ (the interpretation and governing of all things via mainstream religion), then the ‘left hand path’ (the interpretation and regulation of all things according to the self).
The ‘left hand path’ has and always will be the ‘hidden path’, because it is an opposition to all mainstream and socially acceptable traditions.
This is why most that call themselves Satanists or go by other titles of the like don’t typically profess their beliefs or practices in their workplace, or in many other social domains.
The reason for this can be once again illustrated in Marx’s saying ‘religion is the opiate of the people’. The left hand path in analogy is a dose of psychological Naltrexone, which counters the pleasurable effect the religious opiate has (removes responsibility, gives authority to hate and kill others of minority groups or other religions etc.).
I know many will read this and say that they are open Satanists and display their beliefs on their shirt sleeves etc. and that’s fine and OK.
However, we still live today in a very conservative right hand path world, were fear and hatred are still effective tools of the mainstream or government. As soon as you’re seen a Satanist only, and not a fan of Black Metal or following the gothic trend, it may be a totally different story.
Your neighbours may want to lynch you

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#2856 - 12/22/07 01:36 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Old Spider]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Ok, you missed my point.

No... I think you avoided it!

Give me a fundamental belief!

Here, I will show you how this works. As a fellow traveller of the LHP I believe the the needs, wants and desires of the individual trump those of the collective.

Do you hold this a fundamental truth?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#2859 - 12/22/07 11:44 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Old Spider]
Dusarrion Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Tennessee
What small amount of actual debate that exists within this thread interestingly enough contains insightful points on each side, exposing just how subjective those points are. Working towards perceiving the constructive and unconstructive outcomes of labels is very subjective, so much to the point that arguing them becomes futile and mundane; well at least herein. If you seek to find some constructive, logical point to obtaining and avoiding labels, determine which of those aid your goals. For example, in my career I seek to be perceived as effective, efficient, and worthy of advancement. In my relationships, I wish to be seen as compromising, trustworthy, and reliable. These are the labels we can control - through our own actions.
_________________________
Honour, commended no longer as virtue.
Yet, shall be extolled at light's demise.

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#2942 - 12/26/07 11:04 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Dusarrion]
Raven Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 12
In general everyone in this world wears a mask, to help with alot including emotional support where religion comes in, like government religion provides stabiliy for the economy/environment to the people that inhabit it. So in general think of it as halloween and make your own mask because in this world of lies we are only drowning ourselves. Though this could come from a philosophers point of view whether we decide who we are and hint to asking more questions others are more content on the here and now and it is true to balance amongst both extremes. To have a proper grounding and still have a good sense of values is what humanity struggles for in and endless battle to find out the truth..in the end we will only suffocate ourselves.
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#3211 - 01/08/08 04:23 PM Re: A Third Path [Re: Raven]
XxTwiZteDxX Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 10
The third path is false for there is only the two. But every man is born with two legs. We are able to walk down both paths and the interweaving of the two as one creates the one true path. No matter where your life takes you, no matter the choices you make your feet are planted in both paths. The choice is only whether to lean right, lean left, or stand tall and embrace both.
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#3232 - 01/09/08 01:44 AM Re: A Third Path [Re: XxTwiZteDxX]
Zakary Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 75
"stand tall and embrace both".... can you elaborate further on this?
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