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#7703 - 04/14/08 05:33 PM Of God(s) and Men
truthseeker2000 Offline
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Registered: 02/12/08
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I'm almost ready to label myself as a Satanist. However, as I see things and as I read TSB, in order to identify myself as such I must first be willing to see myself as God. Perhaps this is where I am hitting a stumbling block and where others may help me.

It occurs to me that there are two general scenarios that could exist. The first is that all matter and energy that exists now just came into being by random chance, more or less. This is the atheistic possibility and in this case, I am indeed god in that I am the highest evolutionary form. I am a collection of "stuff" just like everything else in the universe but, unlike everything else, I am able to alter my environment in accordance with my will.

However, there is also the possibility that I am not the highest life form and that the universe was created through the will of some other life form to which I am, in some way, indebted for my very existence. This is the theistic possibility. Now, I find myself with no way, other than instinct and superstition, to determine which one is correct.

It seems to me that the the possibility that something higher than myself exists should, and does, give me just cause to pause and think before I declare myself the one master of my world. Perhaps this is just a fear based on my Christian upbringing but even so, how do I get around this or do I even have to? Are there any theistic satanists here who would like to answer the question? Thanks in advance for everyone's advice. You are all most helpful.


Edited by truthseeker2000 (04/14/08 05:35 PM)
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#7720 - 04/14/08 09:25 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: truthseeker2000]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Hello. I've pondered on those things too once, until I figured it wasn't getting me anywhere? Like what spectacular metamorphosis is going to happen it we know the answer to these mysteries in life? You can spend your whole life trying to figure this stuff out, and when you find the answers - then what? You shrug your shoulders, say to yourself - hey I figured it out... the die of old age. Nothing should really matter; and you should try to keep things simple. Who cares where all this came from, or where its going... we're here, and we're only here for a short while. This God shit is a moot subject. Who cares? I'll tell you a dumb story someone told me once:

One day a corn seed falls to the ground. With no one to talk to or love it fell asleep and sank into the darkness of the ground and took root. It grew into a green plant, and many ears of corn came forth. Now each ear of corn had many seedlings.

One day these seedlings began to wonder where they had come from and who made them. Some believed the sun had made them because it too was yellow; some thought they had come from rocks and pebbles, because they looked similar; but none ever thought that their world they grew on had created them. So they went on their lives with their difference in beliefs until one day their world grew old and dry, and the green leaves turned brown.

All the corn seedlings began to worry over the coming doom of their dying world, believing that they would soon die. Nothing could save them, and the ears of corn fell to the ground and scattered the seedlings.

But each seedling was nurtured by nature. The sun still shone, and the rain still fell. And each seedling took root and began to transform. They grew into stalks, and gave forth leaves, and then had ears of corn on their own. Thats when the answer to their question was realized, that all they had to do was KNOW THEMSELVES, instead of looking in dead letters, old books, and statues...

The only reason that you are your own "God" is because if you take the time to KNOW YOURSELF, like some people devote their time trying to know "gods" and things outside themselves, you just might find the answers to the these mysteries - inside.

I guess you can see what you want to see in this story.

Kayla


Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (04/14/08 09:30 PM)
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#7752 - 04/15/08 10:09 AM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
truthseeker2000 Offline
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I think you're right. If there is an all powerful God then it sure hasn't done anything in particular to make itself known. It seems more to hide itself in mystery. If it desired our worship then it could surely demand it or at least make some sign to each of us that it desired to be worshiped. Besides, all theistic religions are simply a collection of opinions from other people who have no more insight into the matter than I do. I've found them all to be full of lies and empty. This is rather a moot point when you think about it. Your story made a lot of sense.

Michael
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#7922 - 04/18/08 07:26 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: truthseeker2000]
Boogs Offline
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As one ponders on the thought of being GOD, one must understand that of all creatures and forces YOU have ultimate control through your will to do so. I know if you understand yourself through much introspect you can come to the conclusion everything you touch (physical or mental) has been manipulated in some way by your will. Or the will of GOD (you)
Explaining the forces of nature as god's will is a layman way to understand the world. Control of those forces is You god himself
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#7923 - 04/18/08 07:49 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
I know if you understand yourself through much introspect you can come to the conclusion everything you touch (physical or mental) has been manipulated in some way by your will.


I thought that knew myself very well, from years of introspect, study and such. However, the above quote does not make any sense to me what so ever. Could you be more specific as to what you mean?
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#7926 - 04/18/08 08:02 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
Boogs Offline
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You know yourself well then my friend and are fully aware of your capabilities and thus are manipulating your environment constantly to your liking. Man will ponder why, GOD creates the question. To know yourself is knowing your environment and the direct correlation between.
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#7928 - 04/18/08 08:05 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Boogs
You know yourself well then my friend and are fully aware of your capabilities and thus are manipulating your environment constantly to your liking. Man will ponder why, GOD creates the question. To know yourself is knowing your environment and the direct correlation between.

I thought we were in a Satanic forum? What "GOD" are you speaking about?
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#7929 - 04/18/08 08:10 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Boogs Offline
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referring to yourself as the highest power metaphorically speaking
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#7930 - 04/18/08 08:18 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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My confusion stems from your statement, that everything I (we) touch, is in some way manipulated by my (our) will.

If I touch an object, but do not move it, then in what way is it manipulated by my will? Also, if you do believe that it is manipulated, then how so, and in what way is merely touching it beneficial to me (us)?

For example, I lay my hands on a table, or a slab of gold, but do not move it, or I am not allowed to take it with me. How is my “will” manipulating it (aside from perhaps leaving dead skin cells and DNA on it), and how is this to my benefit?
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#7932 - 04/18/08 08:23 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Boogs
Man will ponder why, GOD creates the question.


Oh, well, then you make no sense to me, because it sounds like we're playing cosmic mind games with our own self. If God/Us makes the question, and Man/us ponders the answer; it seems slightly crazy.
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#7933 - 04/18/08 08:37 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
Boogs Offline
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Your takin things very literally. If I sneez and no one gets sick how has this impacted anything is what your saying. What im saying is being your own god, you can choose to push the button or cut down the tree, then weve all been affected. Dont focus on moving the table you cant take, its the presence that wouldnt have been had you not touched it. Maybe it made the world of difference you just dont know it. If I dont know I have aids and I touch the table a spot of blood from my cut is there you touch pick your nose and the gentlest touch became the greatest blow
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#7934 - 04/18/08 08:43 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Boogs Offline
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well my little Shaboing Boing then i guess I make about as much sense as your Polygamy rant sorry you cant understand. God is a metaphor. God is A powerful ruler or despot by dictionary definition has nothing to do with religion
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#7936 - 04/18/08 09:03 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
Your takin things very literally.


Yes, you are right. I’m very simple. I express myself in as simple terms as I possibly can. I figure that way, most people will be able to understand what I am attempting to convey. If I feel that I have something of substance to say, it will be easily understood by just about everyone. If I don’t have anything of substance to say, but attempt to use “smoke and mirrors” to pretend as if I do, for whatever reason, then those who are truly “enlightened” will see through my weak attempts.

 Quote:
Dont focus on moving the table you cant take, its the presence that wouldnt have been had you not touched it. Maybe it made the world of difference you just dont know it. If I dont know I have aids and I touch the table a spot of blood from my cut is there you touch pick your nose and the gentlest touch became the greatest blow


That scenario is very unlikely to happen. Again, in my simple mind, if I have a disease, and another person catches it, by accidently ingesting my diseased body fluids, then I don’t see myself as a God, but merely a man, who unfortunately passed on a terminal illness to another person.

On the other hand, if I was truly a god, then I could take the disease back at will, and make that person healthy again.
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#7937 - 04/18/08 09:04 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
ta2zz Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Boogs
If I dont know I have aids and I touch the table a spot of blood from my cut is there you touch pick your nose and the gentlest touch became the greatest blow

Hepatitis yes aids no... There is evidence that transference of a full drop of liquid blood is needed to spread aids, yet hepatitis can be spread much easier...

I almost understand this enough to agree with what he is saying... I do not know if I agree with how he is getting there or the significance of some small changes but I agree... Everything we touch we change in some way... Just as you read these words I have changed you ever so slightly by you having done so...

Changing the world is very simple if you do not set your goals very high... As to the benefits for doing it that would depend on what you changed and the impact on others... Also how good and if you can market it…

Peace

~T~
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#7938 - 04/18/08 09:13 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: ta2zz]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
Changing the world is very simple if you do not set your goals very high... As to the benefits for doing it that would depend on what you changed and the impact on others... Also how good and if you can market it…


I see that we can affect a certain space, and perhaps have a very limited affect on a persons brain by our actions and words. As you said, you did affect my brain software to some degree, because I read what you have written, and to do that, my brain would have to be engaged to a certain degree. Yet, I have to ask, “So what?” Those changes mean nothing. (No disrespect intended), but it really changes nothing of substance.

I read what you wrote, and I either agree, or disagree. Yes, there a perhaps minute changes in the universe from it, but it signifies nothing really.

Am I missing something?

I mean, if I cut down one tree in a forest. I did affect that tree quite severely. I have also perhaps created a space for more sunlight for another kind of shrub to grow, that would have otherwise not had the chance, without said light. But so what? One tree gone, one shrub grows in its place. This does not make me feel more powerful in anyway.


Edited by Asmedious (04/18/08 09:16 PM)
Edit Reason: wanted to add more shit.
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#7939 - 04/18/08 09:14 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
Boogs Offline
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"enlightened" Very touchy subject well I guess ill have to tell my college professor what I mean then have him translate it into less abstract Thought. into something very simple.... And we can take back disease its called medication. Take back time that would be godly but there is not a god only ourselfs. And everything we do leaves a footprint in the world Is that simple?
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#7940 - 04/18/08 09:23 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
Boogs Offline
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thnx ta2zz for making things more clear....
asmedious have you ever cut down 150+ft. tree? It is a worldly experience. Maybe enough to make you feel like god, to move something so gargantuine that otherwise would have stood hundreds more years? Kinda like firing automatic weapons or making a woman scream with your toung just baffling unexplainable stuff till you try them....
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#7941 - 04/18/08 09:25 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
And we can take back disease its called medication.


Ok, you have something there.

However, at this time, medication does not cure Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) which your hypothetical blood splatter caused in another person. It merely retards the HIV, which causes AIDS, and might give that person a few more years to live. Maybe enough time to be around for a cure.

Also, although you might be able to give the medication to the person, you have not created that medication, but instead scientists who worked years using their brain and real time, physical experiments created it. Hard work, dedication, trial and error. This makes THEM great human beings worthy of great praise, in my opinion, but they are still not gods, and WE cannot truly take credit for their achievements, except perhaps on a very small scale, if we donated something TANGIBLE such as funds to their research.
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#7942 - 04/18/08 09:28 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: ta2zz]
Boogs Offline
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ta2zz is very smart because no need for such simple explanation understanding of abstract thought shows "enlightenment" Asmedeous
I think ta2zz signature explains everything quite clearly though YOU MAY NOT THINK SO
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#7943 - 04/18/08 09:30 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
asmedious have you ever cut down 150+ft. tree? It is a worldly experience. Maybe enough to make you feel like god, to move something so gargantuine that otherwise would have stood hundreds more years? Kinda like firing automatic weapons or making a woman scream with your toung just baffling unexplainable stuff till you try them....


lol, well, I must admit that I have never cut down a tree quite that big. Only a few hundred tiny ones, when I was a Land Surveyor many years ago.

The other stuff, yes.

However, all those things might as you say, “make us feel like a god,” but in no way does it make us gods. Again, we could not have fired those weapons without someone else first inventing them, using hard work and dedication. Human beings did that, not us. We simply used the tools that hard working PEOPLE created.

As for making a woman scream while giving her an orgasm......well hell, a feather duster might do exactly the same thing ;\)
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#7944 - 04/18/08 09:36 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
Boogs Offline
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I like you asmedious you have great speculation probly one hell of a surveyor too. My point is although Albert Einstein may have created the bomb it took someone just as capable to drop it.
And I dont think a feather duster could make as big a mess as that (even in herrrr pants) ;\) But yes your right without others inventions other things may not have been possible just as without people to make the things possible the inentions would be useless... many valid points all around very good discussion
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#7946 - 04/18/08 09:43 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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 Quote:
I like you asmedious you have great speculation probly one hell of a surveyor too.


Thanks, feelings mutual. As for the "hell of a surveyor," well frankly I totally sucked at it. Something I fell into after high school, and just went along with it for a pay check.

Then I applied myself, worked hard, and became a nurse.
I hate that too, probably more then Surveying. \:\)

 Quote:
My point is although Albert Einstein may have created the bomb it took someone just as capable to drop it.


Oh come on now, there are probably thousands if not more people who would be able to be trained to drop the Atomic bomb. Those people would very likely not come up with the invention themselves if given many life times to try.

To say that someone arming, deploying, and then dropping the INVENTION, is as capable or great as the person who actually invented it, is not too realistic.
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#7948 - 04/18/08 10:02 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
Boogs Offline
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Well specifically what I said was capable. And by that i mean capable of the destruction not that you have to be a nuclear physicist to drop the thing or a pilot could invent it. Or that good ol al would have the morality or balls to drop it or be able to fly a plane for that matter (requires finesse kinda like tying shoes) could he do that?lol anyways they are both equally qualified in my opinion. The pilot is just as guilty as he. Soory gotta run but you have a wonderful weekend sir
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#7949 - 04/18/08 10:07 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Boogs Offline
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and on another note although 1000 or so pilots could drop it u know as well as i that only the elite few GODS as id like to call them would be selected for such a mission. And now I think of it its funny were on this subject as im direct blood relation to the capt. of USS Indianapolis which carried parts for the bomb....Way off the subject though maybe he was just as capable too. Who am I to tell im not god I just believe i am my higher power or god as I have come to understand him. cheers
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#7953 - 04/18/08 10:35 PM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Boogs]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
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Yes, well, that is a good point I believe, and an interesting one to ponder. Would Einstein have been able to fly and drop the bomb, if everyone solely relied on him to carry out the destruction of Nagasaki and Hiroshima all by himself, if complete and total trust was handed to him to carry out the entire event. Furthermore, would he have been able to physically build that bomb? Which would include making the metals, and mining all of the ingredients needed for it. The answer I believe would be a very definite no.

Just as one, or even a small group of scientists who invent the medications would unlikely have the ability to take a drug from “concept” all the way to distribution.

Perhaps, it takes many different types of people, with different skills and knowledge to create an event that might at the end of the line, make one individual feel “godlike,” and what it all boils down to, is that individually, and all by ourselves, we are just hairless monkeys with some great ideas.
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#7955 - 04/19/08 12:20 AM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: Asmedious]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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 Quote:
Perhaps, it takes many different types of people, with different skills and knowledge to create an event that might at the end of the line, make one individual feel “godlike,” and what it all boils down to, is that individually, and all by ourselves, we are just hairless monkeys with some great ideas.


Isn't this in a way the 'collective unconscience'? That's pretty much what I CHOOSE to picture when I think of it.

I'm someone that doesn't believe in 'God' because I am an athiest, but I can beleive in it if I see it as us, those hairless monkeys, that are their own gods, but using the collective contributions of all those other little hairless monkeys and the world around them to have an effect on their own reality and will.

Lets face it, if you are happy in the world around you, happy with the existance around you, then aren't you your own God at that point?

You've navigated a 'vital existance' and everything around you has an effect on you. You in turn have an effect on everything around you. That's pretty Godlike if you think about it. It is to me anyway. I think every moment of life and every living thing does have a spark of the devine just for being alive, which however you look at it is pretty impressive.

In my humble opinion anyway..

Zeph
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#8007 - 04/20/08 01:37 AM Re: Of God(s) and Men [Re: ZephyrGirl]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Link to discussion that is somewhat along the same lines in another thread.

Zeph
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#31756 - 11/16/09 04:20 AM Re: Worshipping Yourself as (a) God [Re: truthseeker2000]
nocTifer Offline
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hi truthseeker2000,
 Originally Posted By: truthseeker2000
...see myself as God.
seeing yourself as things is a variation on perceptions only, and requires simply the manipulation of your imagination. there are some who are convinced that this is all that is necessary to achieve what one imagines is possible based on increased potential due to the primacy of imagination in the cosmos. I am not one of these, i think that is simply delusion.
 Quote:
...all matter and energy that exists now just came into being by random chance, more or less.
I know of no evidence that anything ever 'just came into being' due to any cause or lack thereof. therefore i do not suppose any "possibilities" based on this lack of evidence.
 Quote:
...I am not the highest life form and that the universe was created through the will of some other life form to which I am, in some way, indebted for my very existence. This is the theistic possibility.
there is no reason to consider this a 'possibility' excepting the suspension of rational thought and the engagement of wild speculation without foundation. once one imagines 'possibilities' due to imagination (rather than actual likelihoods, or explanations founded on something observed and realistic), then anything "is possible" (enter delusion).
 Quote:
...the possibility that something higher than myself exists should, and does, give me just cause to pause and think before I declare myself the one master of my world.
you can declare yourself to be the King of Bunkadoo, but whatever your imagined relation to the rest of the cosmos, this imagining by itself won't change your actual socio-economic status, your physical location in space, your birthed origin as a mammal of relative intelligence, or your finite duration alive as that organism. it takes real work to change the first 2 of those things, possibly assisted by the tool of magic. changing the latter 2 outside of the imagination, as by somehow making yourself originate from a cloud or an alien intelligence without a belly button, or by suspending your limitations as a human being and becoming "immortal" in some literal sense, is not going to happen.
 Quote:
...how do I get around this or do I even have to? ...
your premise is that you want to "see yourself as {a} God". to me this means you want to delude yourself into thinking that you are the originator of all matter, change, and experience of these. you might want to study mysticism, where they indoctrinate themselves into believing that "realization" of this "truth" is possible, set about disabling their rational capacitors by interminably mumbling routinized syllables to themselves, or restricting their entire attention to blank white walls for hours on end, and enter into some kind of mindstate where the ability to discern where they leave off and everything else begins drops away (reported by Scientific American or Nature or some other reputable periodical not very long ago as regards meditators and brain function).

I suggest that all of this thinking, hyper-rationalizing, and self-delusion is really unnecessary. all you need to do is take up the trappings in order to conduct the practice efficiently. discover how people worship their gods, evaluate the options available to you, and set about doing this to yourself, without any fancy explanations as to who created what with what nothingness, what 'level' of life form you or anyone else may be, or who is indebted to what delusion. forget all those fancy explanations delaying you from your purpose. once you've decided on your method, just get yourself a pretty table and plunk it in the corner or the center of your room, get a picture or statue of yourself and adorn it with thngs that you like, and commence to worshipping it until you can figure out how to redirect this worship to your own organism, then proceed accordingly. it's not that difficult, and it's likely to have a really enjoyable outcome. ;\)
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#31757 - 11/16/09 04:29 AM Re: Worshipping Yourself as (a) God [Re: nocTifer]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Aside from all the bullshit you just wasted the time to type out; you are also responding to a post that is over a year old made by someone who hasn't been here in over a year. THINK before you post.
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#31773 - 11/16/09 03:28 PM Re: Worshipping Yourself as (a) God [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
ta2zz Offline
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 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Aside from all the bullshit you just wasted the time to type out; you are also responding to a post that is over a year old made by someone who hasn't been here in over a year. THINK before you post.

Oh there is thought going on in this post perhaps not the kind of thinking you’re used to or that which you seek but there is thought.

 Originally Posted By: nocTifer
once you've decided on your method, just get yourself a pretty table and plunk it in the corner or the center of your room, get a picture or statue of yourself and adorn it with thngs that you like, and commence to worshipping it until you can figure out how to redirect this worship to your own organism, then proceed accordingly. it's not that difficult, and it's likely to have a really enjoyable outcome. ;\)

Now that made me laugh, that is priceless. Worship a picture or statue of yourself by decorating it with things you like to learn how to worship yourself. Sorry buddy either they have it or they don’t either way it matters little to me. Nothing in my life changes by anyone getting it or not, as nothing changes by you doing what you do.

So with that being said I enjoy a different perspective at times even if from my angle it appears bent. There is always something to be learned from any lesson or story, if you’re smart enough to learn it. Remember the lesson learned may not be the one that was planned in fact at times it might be the exact opposite.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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