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#7766 - 04/15/08 08:27 PM Society
mz.amazing_93 Offline
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Registered: 04/15/08
Posts: 3
I am really interested on what people have to say about our society and the idea of it in general. Everybody tells me that without society we would have anarchy and I agree and disagree. We obviously need laws, government, etc. but their is a lot more to it. Society is a place where everybody is supposed to be one way. Their is no room for creativity whatsoever. People make other people feel bad for being different when they should be encouraging it. Satanism is a perfect example of that. When the common everyday person hears the word Satanism, they automatically think of evil, which is completely wrong. I used to be the exact same way before I started to think and broaden my horizons. Becoming a satanist is the best thing that I ever did and I have never been happier with myself. I am way more confident and I am a whole lot smarter. My point is most people automatically judge things for being different before they even know what they are all about. I know I've gotten some weird looks behind my back and have herd people whispering emo while I have been around, but I automatically know I am better than these people who do and say things such as these. These are also the same people that will comment on how good I look in a short skirt, so evidently they cannot make up their minds. Have these sorts of people no values? Some of the most unusual dressing/looking people have been the smartest for example, such as Marilyn Manson in my opinion. I think the worst thing about society is that it just forces people to assume without developing their own opinions which is why the variety of people at your run of the mill high school are so stuck-up and boring. Satanists are satanists for a reason. They make themselves happy and they do what's right to them and they don't care what anybody thinks about them while they are doing it.
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#7770 - 04/15/08 09:40 PM Re: Society [Re: mz.amazing_93]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
People are judgmental. Deal with it. People are hypocritical. Deal with it. People usually follow their values only if it suits them. Deal with it. You should also realize that all of these issues you have a problem with are quite Satanic in nature. Judgement, deception, egocentrism; all are important tools that help make the satanic magician who he/she is. Society is what it is. You won't change it. However, you can change how you choose to let it effect you.

While I understand that you're 15 and Marilyn Manson seems like a great role model, you'd do well to look elsewhere. I'd suggest checking out the reading lists in the Books and Media forum for starters. Good luck.
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#7778 - 04/15/08 11:18 PM Re: Society [Re: mz.amazing_93]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
 Originally Posted By: mz.amazing_93
I am really interested on what people have to say about our society and the idea of it in general. Everybody tells me that without society we would have anarchy and I agree and disagree. We obviously need laws, government, etc.


You had the second part right, no government is what would cause Anarchy. No Rules. No laws. No rights. Not having a society is not what determines the state of the society and people. Sounds stupid doesn't it? You can almost never not have a society. If you have a small group of people, it could almost be called a society. Depending upon many variables.

 Quote:
but their is a lot more to it. Society is a place where everybody is supposed to be one way. Their is no room for creativity whatsoever.


A society doesn't necessarily have to include people all "one way". They have like goals and common interests, yes. But that can be general; they all want to live. For example: In a huge city like Montreal or New York, you can have gangs, thugs, Christians, Atheists, preps, punks.. Etc etc etc. The list goes on with hundreds of sub-cultures and labels. Almost none are going in the same way or want the same thing exactly. Yes, it is supposed to be one way, but almost never is. There are certain things that society in general rejects, such as murder or theft. In this way society wants everything the 'one way', which would be considered the norm...

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People make other people feel bad for being different when they should be encouraging it. Satanism is a perfect example of that. When the common everyday person hears the word Satanism, they automatically think of evil, which is completely wrong.


Yep, that's the way it is and always has been. There is always something about each individual that someone else will find distasteful or unattractive. And as to Satanism, well, I suppose it is normal. Remember, most of the world has been brought up for a couple thousand years thinking Satan and anythinf related is 'evil'. Satanism is growing and becoming more readily accepted, but it takes time. The only problem is, it gets a lot of people stumbling into it, not doing the research and just saying "Oh I like this, it's rebellious, dark, I'm Satanic now..".

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I used to be the exact same way before I started to think and broaden my horizons. Becoming a satanist is the best thing that I ever did and I have never been happier with myself. I am way more confident and I am a whole lot smarter.


I can understand you feeling enlightened and happier, but Satanism doesn't make you smarter. It may relieve you of some ignorance, and broaden your horizons, but simply becoming or saying your Satanist won't make you smarter my friend. Sorry.


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Some of the most unusual dressing/looking people have been the smartest for example, such as Marilyn Manson in my opinion.


As the smart man said beforehand, you should look into and research a bit farther than Manson. I understand he's different and smart so he's someone to idolize, but you should really read up a bit and look into things. Manson is hardly a philosopher, looking into the media section would be a good idea for you. Look up the user Reverand, he's a good guy with a lotta brains and pdf files. If you ever need anything to read up on, he's your man.

A suggestion for you; read a couple other people's posts, look into old threads, do some research and look into things beofre you start posting too much. You may say something you regret, some people here aren't so nice as you would hope. If you have any questions on Satanism or like posts, try posting in the Satanism 101 thread so that people won't judge you so harshly and instead offer you some friendly adivice.

I'll be seeing you around, good luck on your journey...


~~~Snow~~~.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#7813 - 04/16/08 10:21 AM Re: Society [Re: PigFeeder]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
People are judgmental. Deal with it. People are hypocritical. Deal with it. People usually follow their values only if it suits them. Deal with it. You should also realize that all of these issues you have a problem with are quite Satanic in nature. Judgement, deception, egocentrism; all are important tools that help make the satanic magician who he/she is. Society is what it is. You won't change it. However, you can change how you choose to let it effect you.


i very well second this. why must you whine and complain about thing that you cannot change? Yes it does suck that society has becom such a decrepit thing. Yes it is pitifull but we can't change it can we? But instead why don't you use this dilapidated thing called society to your advantage, instead of bitching aobut it to people who already know that society is weak and norrow minded? Also don't you think that the reason shit like this happens is because of the way that you act? i'm sure the times people pick on you aren't for no reason at all, now i'm not saying that their reason is a justification for bigotry. i'm not trying to be an ass hole if i come across as one but shit life shouldn't be sugar coated.
now on to your question... today's society has fallen to a new low, yes it is quite disturbing to find that people get killed or beat up because one is different from another. It is also ironic that teacher's preach about acceptance but label people because they are different. yes some of the world's smartest
people have been "rejects" of some shape or form but I have to second Octavius about mr manson not being the best role model.
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#7823 - 04/16/08 04:24 PM Re: Society [Re: mz.amazing_93]
PigFeeder Offline
member


Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 294
Loc: Near Montreal, QC
I have something else to also add to this..

I see a lot of people here complaining about how society is judgemental and this and that. But it seems they often exclude themselves.

Look people are judgemental, it's a fact of human nature. Everyone does it, you must judge. When you meet someone, you judge there character as to if they would make a good friend, or a better enemy. You judge there qualities, what you like, what you don't like; we judge all the time everyday. We are critics of the world and the world is our critic.

When a painter creates some form of art, we critisize and judge the art. We critisize a musician's composition and place it within our judgement. Good, bad, etc. BUT, the whole issue is based around the fact that there are two types of judgmental people. The good ones, and the bad ones. Some people have bad judgement. But don't go around generalizing it and stating 'Society is judgmental boo-hoo..' because yes, society is. Everyone is. And as such, if you dress or act differently to an extreme noticeable mesure than the rest of the people around youm yes, you will be judged.

You can't tell me that you don't look at someone and think, 'Oh they're good looking'. Or 'Wow that's one hell of a fat person'. Everyone judges, I suppose it's how you act on that judgement that makes a difference.
_________________________
For all murderers, I am the leader.
Forever, Rob, The 49 PigFeeder.
NecroMantic Sin.

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#7826 - 04/16/08 05:42 PM Re: Society [Re: Octavius]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
While I understand that you're 15 and Marilyn Manson seems like a great role model, you'd do well to look elsewhere.


What precisely do you believe makes Marilyn Manson a bad role model? Any reasonable person knows that within the entertainment industry, some things are in fact done merely for the purpose of entertainment, and Manson is well-known for his theatrical performances on stage, in his videos, etc. However, entertainment value aside, when you get right down to who he is as a person, I think you have to admire or at least respect the fact that he is an intelligent person actually capable of making people question the norms of the society they live in. He is who he is and he would be that way no matter what industry you found him working in. And unlike Britney Spears, Paris Hilton and the like, he’s not only capable of articulating his thoughts, but of also of making an intelligent and thought out contribution to the artistic, literary and philosophical aspects of our society. Everyone has their own particular tastes in art and music. Even if the aesthetic of Marilyn Manson doesn’t happen to be to your taste, that alone doesn’t make him a bad role model. Compared to a lot of the other things out there, I would actually say he’s a pretty good one.

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#7846 - 04/16/08 10:43 PM Re: Society [Re: Succubus666]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
Marilyn Manson isn't doing anything new. If you do some research you'll find that artists like Arthur Brown, Alice Cooper, King Diamond, Rozz Williams, and David E. Williams have been doing shock rock for decades. Shock for the purpose of shock has its place, but to exalt Mr. Manson as an innovator is just not deserved. He's merely this generation's "musician to piss off your parents." I've seen him perform live, bought his records, and read his book. Nothing about him strikes me as particularly original. That's not to say he's not entertaining, but is he a role model? Certainly there are better options for our disassociated youth. The fact that he's able to "be who he is" in a pop culture world of Britney Spears and Christina Aguileras doesn't impress me. There are countless other bands doing the same damn thing. And guess what? They don't do it because they're true to their art. They do it because IT SELLS.
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#7853 - 04/17/08 01:38 AM Re: Society [Re: Octavius]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
I’ve been a Marilyn Manson fan going on 12 years now, and for me it’s never been about whether or not anything he’s done for entertainment or personal reasons is new, or if someone has done something similar to it before him. Frankly, with various forms of media being around as long as they have, it would be a nearly impossible task to throw a concept out there that has never been touched on before. I like Marilyn Manson for who he is as a person, because he’s the type I find more sexually and intellectually appealing than most, and I like him as an artist because what he does happens to coincide with what I find aesthetically appealing.

Perhaps for other people out there, impressionable youth in particular, the appeal does have something to do with “shock value” or pissing off your parents. But I’ve never approached it with either of those values in mind, and I don’t think he should be judged on the basis of standing for that and that alone in a minority of misguided minds. I also never suggested that he doesn’t do what he does because it sells - of course he does. My point was that unlike a lot of the mindless celebrities the media becomes fixated on simply because they happen to spread their legs in the right place at the right time (and have a vocabulary and intellect in their twenties equal to that of most fourteen year-olds), at least Marilyn Manson is making an intelligent (and in my opinion positive) contribution with what he puts out there.

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#7879 - 04/17/08 07:39 PM Re: Society [Re: Octavius]
School Bully Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
Marilyn Manson isn't doing anything new. If you do some research you'll find that artists like Arthur Brown, Alice Cooper, King Diamond, Rozz Williams, and David E. Williams have been doing shock rock for decades. Shock for the purpose of shock has its place, but to exalt Mr. Manson as an innovator is just not deserved. He's merely this generation's "musician to piss off your parents." I've seen him perform live, bought his records, and read his book. Nothing about him strikes me as particularly original. That's not to say he's not entertaining, but is he a role model? Certainly there are better options for our disassociated youth. The fact that he's able to "be who he is" in a pop culture world of Britney Spears and Christina Aguileras doesn't impress me. There are countless other bands doing the same damn thing. And guess what? They don't do it because they're true to their art. They do it because IT SELLS.


Quite. But not since Black Sabbath has "Satanic" rock been more fully exploited as a commercial product and currently Warner just sells it better than the rest. True, he is not particularly innovative, in fact, when it came to Mechanical Animals, I think Warner thought he'd died and been reincarnated as David Bowie, but if one can't acknowledge the originality at least one can admire the style. And he's always had the good sense to be backed with some very abled musicians. Contrived he may be but his project is undeniably well crafted.

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