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#7907 - 04/18/08 11:40 AM 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect...
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
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Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA


""By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 49 minutes ago

SAN ANGELO, Texas - After hours of lawyers popping up with similar objections and questions, a custody hearing for 416 children seized from a polygamist sect finally turned to whether they were abused: A child welfare worker said some women at the sect's ranch may have had children when they were minors, some as young as 13.


The testimony came late Thursday, the first day of a court hearing to determine whether the children, swept up in a raid on the ranch two weeks ago, will remain in state custody. Child welfare officials claim the children were abused or in imminent danger of abuse because the sect encourages girls younger than 18 to marry and have children.

Child welfare investigator Angie Voss testified that at least five girls who are younger than 18 are pregnant or have children. Voss said some of the women identified as adults with children may be juveniles, or may have had children when they were younger than 18.

Identifying children and parents has been difficult because members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints have given different names and ages at various times, Voss said. The state has asked that DNA be taken from all of the children and their alleged parents to help determine biological connections. The judge has not ruled on that request...""

Read the rest here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080418/ap_on_re_us/polygamist_retreat

I just have a question - Is it right for them to do this with under aged girls because it's their religious beliefs and the girls may have been willing? Or are these people perverse. I would say perverse, because, grown men and 13 year olds getting married and having babies for god just isn't right?

Kayla
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#7927 - 04/18/08 08:04 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
The leader of the organization is in jail for life for aiding in the repeated rape of a 14 year old girl.

The children are born into it. They don't know any better.
Their mothers know better, and the men know better.
They just choose not to care. For the mothers, Its a matter of closing their eyes and accepting it.
For the men, well, its a sence of power, control, and sexual accomplishment.

You trap the woman with the kids, then trap the kids with their own kids, a repeated abuse cycle. They grow acustomed to the life and accept it as all there is, because that is all they are taught.

Come on, how many 13, 14, or 15 years olds would willingly marry a 56 year old man or older?

God only comes into it as an excuse to do what they they want.

Morg
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#7931 - 04/18/08 08:22 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Morgan]
Boogs Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 17
Loc: California North
God comes in as a cover so no one gets curious as to whats going on inside. Also develops wealth through tax relief to fund their sick little settlement. Only if that would be acceptable to put the men out of their misery
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#8030 - 04/20/08 08:33 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The polygamist "leaders", ie. the older men, drive out the younger boys that are raised in the community when they reach adulthood, so as not to pose any competition to the older men who have dozens and dozens of wives. True law enforcement in predominantly polygamist towns is nearly impossible, as the local sheriffs and police usually have close ties or are being paid under the table to look the other way. They are also the first contacted when the young girls attempt to run away, who are rounded up before they get outside of the city limits and brought back to their sad, abusive lives. If they DO manage to escape, they generally end up as prostitutes or earning a low-wage salary working at a diner or hotel doing housekeeping. I'm surprised more don't commit suicide.
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#8097 - 04/22/08 03:33 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Nemesis]
Phillip Offline
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Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
We as a society have accepted the idea that teenage kids want to get laid--that's why sex ed classes are "safe sex" instead of "abstinence".

How are unwed teen mothers more acceptable than married teenage mothers? And, as long as the way those people live doesn't affect our lives, who are we to say shit about it?

Seems like we could learn a lot from these folks...
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Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8101 - 04/22/08 06:21 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
I remember being a horny teenage girl. I don't remember wanting to fuck my Grampa's friends or Dad's friends for that matter.

I personally don't think young girls are capable of making the best decision for themselves about being ready to have sex and that is why the laws against sex before about 16 (and there's still plenty that make stupid decisions then) are good and should be enforced.

Any man over about 18 that has sex with a girl under 16, even under the pretense of marriage should be arrested, as far as I'm concerned.

I also have an 11 year old daughter, that shared with me that she kissed her first boy the other night (on the cheek, awww cute) and whilst she has been menstruating for over a year now, has not mentally caught up to her physicality.

Honestly, I wouldn't want to see her having sex, or worse, being forced to get married and have sex with some old man, just because physically she is pretty much a women. Sex ed is about information. It's not a green light that says, go forth and fuck to 12 and 13 year olds.

I personally don't find unwed teen mothers any more acceptable. I find it sad and my heart goes out to these girls, even if they were the biggest sluts in the world. It is only a matter of upbringing that puts them into that position. The majority of these types of girls come from broken homes and or have been molested previously.

Who am I to say anything about it? As I said, I'm a mother.

Zeph
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#8106 - 04/22/08 11:44 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
 Originally Posted By: Phillip
We as a society have accepted the idea that teenage kids want to get laid--that's why sex ed classes are "safe sex" instead of "abstinence".

How are unwed teen mothers more acceptable than married teenage mothers? And, as long as the way those people live doesn't affect our lives, who are we to say shit about it?

Seems like we could learn a lot from these folks...


So called "Marriage" in today's society is a fucking joke. Think about it. Some stranger or maybe a religious weirdo you know says a few lines in a fancy manmade building and suddenly you're magically bound together in perfect morality. Nuh-uh. It doesn't work like that.

Thirteen years old?!? I didn't even KNOW about sex, I just wanted to play video games. This is fucking disgusting...it's just a bunch of pedophiles using religion as their excuse to fuck around with little kids...

"Unwed" how disgusting....whatever happened to Love? Marriage is bullshit...

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#8115 - 04/23/08 11:01 AM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: 97and107]
Phillip Offline
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Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
"Any man over about 18 that has sex with a girl under 16, even under the pretense of marriage should be arrested, as far as I'm concerned."

So it's ok to have sex with other irresponsible kids, but not grown-ups willing to make a serious commitment (i.e. "spiritual marriage")?

"I personally don't think young girls are capable of making the best decision for themselves..."

Neither do they--that's why they arrange marriages for these "horny teenage girls", as you so quaintly put it.

97and107 may not have know about sex at thirteen, but todays kids certainly do.

And really, isn't it the law that's out of line with nature? People are animals, just like any other, right? When an animal is ready to mate, it mates. It doesn't wait for the tribe silverback to declare "You have witnessed a dozen winters; now you may procreate."

Once again, who are we to say anything about it? They aren't YOUR kids. Being a mother doesn't give you any right to raise other people's kids. If it did, you'd have to be willing to let other folks tell you how to raise yours. Are you ready for that?
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Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8124 - 04/23/08 05:58 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Being a mother gives me LIFE EXPERIENCE. Also being a female give me LIFE EXPERIENCE and everything I've seen in my life, screems at me that these cults are riddled with abuse.

 Quote:
So it's ok to have sex with other irresponsible kids, but not grown-ups willing to make a serious commitment (i.e. "spiritual marriage")?


Not really, but I don't think its a crime of peodophelia. I DO think the other a crime of abuse and peopdophelia.

 Quote:
"I personally don't think young girls are capable of making the best decision for themselves..."

Neither do they--that's why they arrange marriages for these "horny teenage girls", as you so quaintly put it.


Good try, except I said I remember being a horny teenage girl. I didn't call them that. That's why you had to change the quote completely and just add those three words to make your argument work. Also, I think it's better that said girls grow old enough to have a chance of making the right decisions for them.
Not FORCE them into marriage with creepy OLD men, for the purpose of having children, while they are still children themselves.

As for animals mating when they are ready, even animals that mate for life (like geese), get to CHOOSE THEIR OWN MATES and not have them forced upon them by the rest of the geese community. But I stand by what I say. That is why I used my daughters physiology as an example. Humans are somewhat different to animals in many when it comes to sex.

 Quote:
If it did, you'd have to be willing to let other folks tell you how to raise yours. Are you ready for that?


Ready for it? Shit dude, it's pretty much already here. The government has ALOT to say about raising your kids these days.
Immunizations and school are just two examples of this. Also, I am an unashamed feminist, so that also gives me the urge if not right to have an opinion about this. I'm not against men or marriage, but it should be the CHOICE of all party's involved. Too many stories of rape and abuse have come out of these places to NOT investigate the well being of these children.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#8125 - 04/23/08 06:34 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
Umm, so you're saying YOU were a "horny teenage girl", but they are not? I doubt that. Further, I think the argument works just fine as "They don't think young girls are capable of making good decisions for themselves, so they arrange marriages for them."

Also, I'm not sure I understand the last part of your post. Are you saying you support/like/wish there was more government interference in childrearing?

I'd also like to point out that the "stories of rape and abuse", at least in this particular case, seem to not have "come out of" this place at all. Rather, it appears that the initial allegations originated with some crazy bitch on the outside.

I wonder what the divorce rates are like within the FLDS community?
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8135 - 04/23/08 11:31 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 277
Loc: New Mexico
You know what Phillip, I think you're a pedophile plastering your shit all over our forum because you're trying to justify your disgusting fantasies about fresh nubile youths. If you're such a sick fuck as to believe that somehow kids marrying grownups is suddenly ok just because it's a "legal holy matrimony" or whatever the hell it is you're going on about, you need to step down son, because I would put a fist in your face if I suddenly found out you wanted to marry a 13 year old girl. I have zero tolerance for those kind of shenanigans and I wouldn't care if the FBI went in and mowed down every single one of those fuckers, because they're misogynists - they're below human.

I would literally just knock you the fuck out. There are a lot of issues in this world that piss me off and I just let it slide, but that one, damn...you guys get really bold on the fucking internet because you don't have some crazy bitch like me standing next to you to listen to your garbage in person where I COULD do that...

Be that as it may, I still think it's fine once a girl reaches adulthood to choose whoever she wants as a mate, but she needs to HAVE THAT CHOICE available to her. Not raised like some kind of breeding cow in an incestuous religious freak facility.

(Since when do Satanists give a flying fuck about divorce rates anyways?)

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#8145 - 04/24/08 04:20 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: 97and107]
Phillip Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/22/08
Posts: 25
I think your knocker's broke, buddy.

If people are animals, just like any other, what's wrong with raising breeding cows? Quit trying to impose your fascist conservative Christian morals on me, backing them up with empty threats of violence, fucko. Go thump your Bible at someone else.

"People have rights! We should treat them fairly! Blah blah Jesus loves you blah!"
_________________________
Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.

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#8150 - 04/24/08 06:22 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: Phillip]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
She wasn't talking about 'people' having rights, she was talking about 'children' having rights.

As was I. Animal young don't get married off to old bulls and raped.

Being a Satanist doesn't mean being a women hating, child fucking loser.

If all you've got to say in this thread is now attacking the player and not the ball, your arguments are exhausted and your say in this thread should be done.

Zeph



Edited by ZephyrGirl (04/24/08 06:23 PM)
Edit Reason: grammer and spelling
_________________________
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#8154 - 04/24/08 07:50 PM Re: 13 year old impregnated in polygimist sect... [Re: ZephyrGirl]
LUCIFERIFIC Offline
active member


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 629
Loc: CA
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
She wasn't talking about 'people' having rights, she was talking about 'children' having rights.

As was I. Animal young don't get married off to old bulls and raped.

Being a Satanist doesn't mean being a women hating, child fucking loser.

If all you've got to say in this thread is now attacking the player and not the ball, your arguments are exhausted and your say in this thread should be done.

Zeph



Our closest genetic relatives the Bonobos are the only other animal besides us to use sex as a recreational activity. These look like Chimps, but they are a different species.

In Bonobo society there seems to be no rules or taboos when it comes to sexual encounters. Sometimes you;ll see male on male action, sometimes girl on girl action; sometimes group sex, and then adults have sex with children. This is a sample video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Bg3u806w9h0

Kayla
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Lux Lucet Ex Orientis


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#8157 - 04/24/08 08:48 PM Bonobos? Nothing to see here... move along please! [Re: LUCIFERIFIC]
Meq Offline
Banned
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
It's not exactly PC to cite evidence that pedophilia is to some extent natural (as proven by our Bonobo cousins)... just as organizations such as NAMBLA can and do cite such evidence in their promotion of pedophilia. To openly cite evidence against the PC norm (that it is totally unnatural and thus evil) is to gain association with the enemy.

I spoke to a friend of mine, who is a trained classicist and practicing psychotherapist. He mentioned how among many ancient Greeks, sexual relationships between young boys and men were seen as a positive thing.
So I asked the question - were these Greek boys psychologically damaged by their sexual encounters? He said that, given the cultural climate, it was unlikely that much real emotional harm was involved.

On my hypnotherapy training, I encountered a therapist who had had intercourse with her uncle while a little girl. She said that she felt she hadn't come to any harm at all from the experience, as it was done out of love.
In my experience as a trainee hypnotherapist, I learned how this is often the sort of thing which is common but rarely talked about, due to the societal taboo.

I am not in any way endorsing pedophilia here, don't get me wrong. Anyone causing harm to children needs to be stopped and punished in my book.

But all the facts need to be faced up to, not just those which sit comfortably with cultural taboos.
These issues often bring up strong moral sentiments and value judgments. But I think it is wise not to be too dogmatic about 'Right' and 'Wrong', as if you have the ideas sown up in your back pocket - an attitude which is still the norm nowadays.

To quote John Gray (LSE):
"[Many people] avoid inspecting their moral intuitions too closely. Perhaps this is just as well. If they scrutinized them, they would find that they had a history - often a rather short history. Today everyone knows that inequality is wrong. A century ago everyone knew that gay sex was wrong. The intuitions people have on moral questions are intensely felt. They are also shallow and transient to the last degree."

Perhaps some food for thought (not directed at anyone in particular) - I'd strongly endorse taking a philosophical approach to such heated issues. Nothing distorts one's outlook more than dogmatic moral indignation. Take a chill pill. You'll be able to think more clearly and see all the different perspectives from a gods-eye view...


P.S.
Here is that video embedded:



Edited by Mequa (04/24/08 09:10 PM)
Edit Reason: Extra comment

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